Big fish small pond

[drexel]

I must say recently, flying up here in NW WA i have found that a certain small regional RPT operator, or should i say more correctly the pilots seem to be of the opinion that the local MBZ is promogulated solely for their benefit!

They seem to be ignorant of the local procedures, laid down in the ersa and believe it their responsibility to harrass local scenic and charter traffic. Forgotten where you started already?

:mad:

[Mai Dong]

How about some more information? Some examples?

Maybe some constructive criticism….

What local procedures are they ignoring? How are they harassing local traffic?

If you have a genuine complaint then have some intelligence and maturity and post something a bit more comprehensible that can be debated.

Venting your anger in such a childish way does nothing to help your cause.

[drexel]

As thease are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be

opposite of what may be apparent.

but in saying that over MBZ freQ a 300 hour young girl should not have to brief (Iam asuming here ) an experienced pilot on a standard procedure for that AD while 20+ AC are inbound there you go dont get to angry but it had to be said.

:cool:

[Dave Incognito]

Haven't had any experience with this company not complying with the ERSA. However, been involved in a few occasions where they have been pretty keen to depart very quickly, resulting in a handful of the crews getting a bit pushy.

A few examples include: taking off downwind with aircraft already in the circuit for the reciprocal runway; telling (not asking) aircraft already in a busy circuit to extend downwind because they are lining up; backtracking over 1000m while people are in the circuit when there is a parallel taxiway that is regularly used by other crews (had to extend downwind so far that I ended up on a 5 mile final :mad: ).

Now I can appreciate that these blokes are operating to a fixed schedule, but so are the scenic aircraft that are sharing the airport. On the whole though, most of the crews are pretty good with dealing with all the lighties.

[drexel]

I did not say they they dont comply with the ersa
what i said was they are ignorant of some procedures
outlined in the ersa ie, standard_ departures .
:o :o :confused:

[U2]

You can;

1 Put up with it

2 Send in a report to CASA

or preferably

3 If the person has to wait for a caravan of scenic aircraft to land
you may want to adjust aircraft separation to allow their departure.

U2

[druglord]

...what we have here is ...ugh...failure to communicate. I think what we have here is a problem of what should be done vs. what can be done. For example, you should overfly the circuit at 1500' and then xwind, downwind etc. Of course there isn't a commercial operator out there who uses these procedures, not unless you'd like to join our Ansett friends in the unemployment queue while your company goes broke. Commercial ops are a lot different from private ops and perhaps the experienced ones should be a little more understanding, and the newbies should learn the ropes

[VneII]

come on children stop bickering!

I think you'll find that if you get the person commiting the offence down to the conti on Fri arvo, make them buy a round for everyone and politely explain how we do it in the Kimberly they, like you all before them, will learn the ropes and hopefully become better pilots.

VneII

PS g'day everyone hope this is the biggest problem you have at the mo. G'day Druglord (BigN) hope life is treating you well over there! (J)

[TurboOtter]

I think everyone is trying to cover their own asres here, The number on rule that EVERBODY should use and obey is to comunicate what you are doing and try and help you fellow aviators, Being commercial or private you have be helpful and get those machine into the air and onto the ground ASAP.
I am currently flying in an area where there are alot of pirvate and commercial flights happening, and almost never are the standard procesures used, there is never any problem.
we all have same goal in life, "land this sucker!!", "Let me get the hell out of here" etc...;

U2 quoted
"You can;

1 Put up with it

2 Send in a report to CASA

or preferably

3 If the person has to wait for a caravan of scenic aircraft to land
you may want to adjust aircraft separation to allow their departure. "

Why report to those lovely guys at CASA when you could just takl to the pilot directly??

As for the other two suggestions, maybe communication and being a little accomadating
:eek:

Anyway Be friendly up there :D :D :D
Remember we all started this profession because it is something we ALL enjoy:D :D

[U2]

When I suggested "report it to CASA" I was not implying that one should call the hotline with fingers on the trigger. If this is a regular issue then you should send a no-name report in and suggest that this issue should be rectified. How will CASA determine if a "local" procedure is working or not if nobody reports conflicts or deficiencies when they arise.

Simply, if there is a problem you should rectify it.

U2

[drexel]

Comunication would be great start but who ever suggested that does not have to share the sky with these guys . To suggest doing propper circuits
would send the company under is complete crap, my company uses correct
procedures all the time (when able due traffic avoidence) and we are doing quite well , burning an extra twenty cents worth of gas each time we fly.
Drug lord thats a fitting name . and thankyou for all the other instructors that had five cents to add .

[buzz box]

haha, an extra 20 cents of gas :D

i'd suggest you listen to what these fella's are saying, as one day you might be flying something costing $30 a minute to run. A good commercial operator will fly only the required 3 legs of a circiut, or straight-in traffic permitting.

[grrowler]

drexel,
Possibly take a look in the mirror.

I may be thinking of the wrong MBZ here, but I remember when I was flying scenics in that region not all that long ago, the local scenic companies would send out swarms of 210's and 206's in one hit.

One aircraft would give a position on the radio, and then 3 or 4 would report "ABC, likewise, half a mile behind." Obviously this makes for a busy time when they all arrive back in the circuit.

Maybe these companies need to consider others as well, and leave some space between their AC.

And as for your pilots always (again I could be barking up the wrong tree) I have had to hold while 2 aircraft (from 2 different local companies) did straight in approaches at a CTAF.

[Transition Layer]

Thought we were talking about Kunners til VneII mentioned the Conti...

Grrowler has a point though...many pilots in KU seem to think the airspace between Kunners and the Bungles between A025 and A035 is their own little restricted area.

Let's all just be friends...

:D

TL

[grrowler]

Hey TL,

How are ya? I've had a name change!

:D
Keeping busy? Flying the Partial yet? The power would be going to your head! :D
You should try to get a gig down here.

Yeah I realise we're talking about BRM now, but I think my comments are still probably fairly valid.

[drexel]

you guys in Kunners do have megg swarms of AC go out at the same time

Broome has much less traffic . By the time the squadren is back from the

bungles, the spacing is pretty good due to ac type ie. 206 210 and the

GA 8 (a whole other topic ) and also peoples variations in power, pattern

ect.

ps. you can stick your $30 dollar a minute craft ill take the $3000 dollar a

minute one.:D

[Transition Layer]

G'day Grrowler,

Had a sneaking suspicion that might be you!

Will give you a call sometime soon, fill you in on the goss from up this way.

Cheers,
TL

[buzz box]

Drexal, your boss will love you that much more doing 4-5 legs of a circuit at $3000 a minute :D

[drexel]

That reminds me of that joke where the ATC asks the 747 to hold for two more orbits and the Cpt of the 747 says" you realise that costs us $4000
a lap", Then the ATC replies to the Cpt " give me eight grands worth thanks"!

[druglord]

Drexel if you have 300 hrs I'd suggest you listen to a few more experienced people around here. I never saw Ansett or Qantas join overhead at '1500 and do the rest so if you have any aspirations of grandeur I'd suggest you learn quickly.

Big J! how are ya mate??!! Yeah it's ok over here. Still bad in the job sitch over here. Regionals are hiring with 7000 hrs and USAir, United and Continental are all on the brink of bankruptcy. I should be hearing from a company hopefully soon, the DO said I had a good resume, so that's encouraging. How's the conti these days? mIssin' me I hope? Along with the women?? Tell D. hi for me.