First Job Drive Australia

[theprincex]

Does anyone have a list of aerodromes/operators that are a must visit when I begin driving around the country looking for work. I only know of interstate operators that ask for big hours :ok:

[umop apisdn]

Does anyone have a list of aerodromes/operators that are a must visit when I begin driving around the country looking for work. I only know of interstate operators that ask for big hours :ok:

Advanced Google search is your friend. Can can search for "any of the following" and "must include"

So in your any boxes type in scenic flights, charter flights, air charter, air freight, cessna, piper, etc etc until you get a good list. Then in must include add the town or place you're wondering about.

Making your own list makes life a lot less competitive than using one that already exists.

[Capt Fathom]

You can also do the same on the CASA Register website. Type in town names, aircraft types and it will bring up some interesting information.

[bloodandiron]

One thing I can tell you is that there are no manned bases at Halls Creek

[runway16]

One of the problems with the big drive or indeed any first job chasing is that for the number of operators wanting pilots is that there are too many pilots being trained for the number of jobs likely to be available for new first job pilots. Then in the near future we will have a new arrangement that will encourage more Kiwi pilots to come to Australia to compete with local pilots for first jobs.
Sure there are adverts for pilots here in Australia but from my observation most operators are after experienced aircrew. That means more than the basic or minimum number of hours.
For any new pilot and in training the things to think about are getting as many hours as you can log. Also get to fly as many round dial aircraft as you can, The heavier the better. Get some remote experience. A few trips to the Red Centre and landing on dirt strips will help. Nice to have twin and IFR time but most first jobs will be driving a six place single. The twin and IFR experience may be used later. The operator would prefer that you bend the single rather than the more expensive twin. Then if there are vacancies for twin and IFR drivers there are most likely to go to other pilots with the same operator who are the anointed ones to be elevated first to those positions.
Some flight school will have the story of fly with us and you will get a first flying job after you complete training. For someone wanting a GA job that is not always the case, and then there is that big loan to pay back, job or no job.
Keep knocking on doors. Some times it is a case of luck over planning to get that first job.

[Clare Prop]

You need to be competitive and stand out from the crowd. This is done by networking and getting as much command time as you can in relevant types and environments.
We get our CPL hour builders to start networking as part of their hour building prior to CPL, fly to these places to meet the Chief Pilot and get the feel of the places, show you are comfortable nd competent flying in that environment. Driving there in a car proves nothing about your flying ability.

Minimum hours are set by insurance as well as the boss. You are wasting your time driving up there if all you have done is minimum hours drilling holes in the sky on an integrated course in a capital city. Unfortunately many flying schools tell people to get Multi/IFR (because they are in the business of selling you courses!) which is like selling someone a ladder with the first rungs so high up that you can't reach them. That can come later when you are working and can tax deduct it. The dollars spent would give you much more value putting command time to interesting places in your log book and having a "ladder" with reachable rungs.
I know some of the integrated /VET debt course people will flame me for this, but it's meant that our CPLs have had jobs waiting for them, not had to go online and ask strangers how to find work.
Good luck!

[PoppaJo]

You need to be competitive and stand out from the crowd
Often a statement overlooked by many, and I understand the cost pressures involved in hour building is unlike anything else, but doing as many hours as cheaply as possible hour building in a 152 or so on, isn’t competitive. If you have 50-100 hours PIC in a 182 or even better 206, you’re competitive.

I know someone who did 80 hours in a 206. Networking and that aircraft worked for him, he landed a 206 charter job at the end of it. The job came to him. He made his CV competitive.

[lucille]

It’s a brutal career. You need a rich daddy, a well connected daddy or just plain good luck.

Absent the first two, perseverance, resilience and time results in “luck”. More than a few of us managed to eke out a career this way.

[Clare Prop]

A tip I give any newbies, from someone who has been employing pilots for around 30 years, is to understand the importance of showing that you will get on with everyone else in the team and clients, suppliers etc. and that the customers will feel comfortable with.

This can be demonstrated by things other than your flying experience in the CV. eg previous work history, travel, volunteering etc, or just having some hobby or skill that really makes you stand out as an interesting, innovative person that you'd like to spend time chatting with on a slow day.

There are some who come out of certain training environments who have a superiority complex. Having them constantly saying how their inner city sausage factory did things SO much better will end the career very quickly.

"That guy is a ********" is mud that will stick for the rest of your flying life! Be professional but also be good company and remember that good communication skills are essential in any type of employment. This doesn't come naturally to everyone and is a skill many need to work on.

Good luck!

[DUXNUTZ]

It’s a brutal career. You need a rich daddy, a well connected daddy or just plain good luck.

Absent the first two, perseverance, resilience and time results in “luck”. More than a few of us managed to eke out a career this way.

Agree with this.

[mikewil]

And for gods sake make sure you get some Cessna time. I have spoken to 3 or 4 operators over the past year and they said their biggest problem has been new pilots who come from the city sausage factory flying schools having flown nothing other than a DA40, who can't even seem to operate a C172 properly :ugh:

Get at least 10 hours in a C206 and learn how to fly a nice tidy circuit, or a C182 at the very least.

[Clare Prop]

And for gods sake make sure you get some Cessna time. I have spoken to 3 or 4 operators over the past year and they said their biggest problem has been new pilots who come from the city sausage factory flying schools having flown nothing other than a DA40, who can't even seem to operate a C172 properly :ugh:

Get at least 10 hours in a C206 and learn how to fly a nice tidy circuit, or a C182 at the very least.
Not just Cessnas but Cessnas with round dials. The ones where what is outside is more interesting and colourful than what is inside.
Cherokee time is valuable too.

[mikewil]

Not just Cessnas but Cessnas with round dials. The ones where what is outside is more interesting and colourful than what is inside.
Cherokee time is valuable too.

I stupidly overlooked what I thought was implied, but I guess there are heaps of G1000 Cessnas and Pipers floating around these days. Yes everyone, round dials!

I always thought 6pack Cessnas and Pipers were the worlds easiest things to operate proficiently but somehow the products of the sausage factories make hard work of it.

[Checkboard]

A quick google shows Kununurra operators using:
Shoal Air - C 207 & C210
Kununurra Air Tours - C210 & GA Airvans
Avair - GA Airvans

So yeah, round dial Cessna time is still relevant. If you were really switched on, you’d do your CPL training in one.

I agree about the interview. The Qantas interview (25 years ago!) was all about psych tests and other rubbish, but the Ansett interview was all about how nice a person you were, and if you were going to be interesting enough to sit next to for four hours at a time. :)

And, back in the day, GA operators used to be a bit leary about pilots with only flying instructor backgrounds. Too “by the book” and not enough GA “get on with it” was the impression. (which I disagree with, but I’m not the one hiring).

oh, and learn to cook. You don’t have to be Jamie Oliver, but three pasta dishes and three Asian dishes from memory should do it to start. If you’re going to work up north, then at some point you’ll be sharing a house, and that means (for social and practical reasons) sharing the cooking. You don’t want to be the boring person who has to order pizzas each Wednesday. That means learn to eat as well. If you're a fussy eater, if you've ever pushed away a plate of food made by your parents, if you only eat fried food, or no vegetables - then give that up. Eat food others have cooked with a smile.

[Clare Prop]

"But but the flying school said I had to learn in a glass cockpit because that's what I'm going to have in my first flying job, which will be in an Airbus! Does this mean I'll have to look out of the window? I'd better do the "GA ready" course!"

:ugh:

[krismiler]

You've made a good decision in taking a drive around instead of emailing out resumes, even if you don't get lucky this time you'll make a few contacts and people will be able to put a face to your name if something comes up later on. I got my first break in Australia when an operator I hadn't even visited needed someone and they called an operator I had visited and asked if they had anyone meeting their requirements on file. The location wasn't very desirable and they wanted higher than average experience because of a prior incident. I grabbed the job and got on the employment ladder. Pay was above award with free accommodation and a ticket there.

Avoid going in first thing on a Monday morning because everyone is too busy and stick to the road rules even if you're in the middle of nowhere, you'll be surprised at the places the coppers target.

[Checkboard]

I'd better do the "GA ready" course!"
Is that six months pouring drinks and changing kegs behind a busy bar, a taxi licence and three weeks volunteering in a hangar gapping plugs, swapping tyres and changing oil filters?

[Global Aviator]

Is that six months pouring drinks and changing kegs behind a busy bar, a taxi licence and three weeks volunteering in a hangar gapping plugs, swapping tyres and changing oil filters?

Don‘t be silly, you speak common sense.

GA ready is to be prepared to be bent over without the vase supplied! Yes whilst handing over ya thousands…

Still infuriates me that operators charge for ‘check flights’!

[SOPS]

I can’t believe that people pay for a GA ready course. I have a new one on offer…a “ Drive around Australia to find your first job” ready course.

Give me strength.

[runway16]

In the world of flying training the aim is to get the student to be able to pass the licence test and then move on. It is unfortunate to record that often the candidate does not receive the knowledge that is needed to be a real prospect to be employable as a first commercial job candidate.
Such things as looking after the aircraft, topping up the oil, tying the aircraft down, having flown into dirt strips, having remote area experience, using a paper chart instead of a panel mounted GPS map, doing overnight trips. Having flown aircraft with round dials, have flown aircraft of the type a prospective employer may be using, (not only having experience on glass) The list goes on. Too many students are told that fly with us in our brand new composite aircraft with its glass panel and you will be easily snapped up for an airline job. Oh, and the Government will pay for your training!
Absolute Bull!
What an employer wants is a pilot who has big Cessna or Piper or GA8 experience. Can fly on a paper chart, has more flight hours than the bare minimum from a Part 142 ticket, knows how to fend for themself in the outback. Again the list goes on. All Part 142 school does is create a pilot who may have a new CPL licence but are effectively unemployable.
A lot of this can be put down to the level of instruction that the student received. What experience did the instructor have? How much of the above. In recent times I have seen new CPL pilots who cannot write up the MR and the flight record, cannot keep the oil level at the stated amount, do not report minor snags, do not turn up on time, have a log book that looks like a kindergarten crayon book, look like anything but a CPL on the way to a job. Turn up with facial hair, an arm full of tatts, a crumpled shirt, and are going to fly a load of pax who are paying on the north side of $400 an hour and who wonder if they will get home alive.
Get real!
In recent times, post Covid in particular, the level of experience of instructors on average has gone downhill. Experience is the stuff that a competent instructor has to pass on to the candidate. Passing on skills that will get a CPL candidate that first job.
If one is planning that big drive north join the convey with other budding first flying job pilots. Sure there are job adverts to be seen in the media and online but all ask for experience. Put another way there are too many new CPL pilots being trained who are competing for fewer first time jobs.
This is where the recent trend of doing a GA Ready Course has come into play. Doing such a course may not get you that first job overnight but it will bring you into the real world of commercial flying. Maybe the flying school should have an off shoot that runs a GA Ready Course as a tack on after the candidate gets a CPL.
Food for thought.
R

[Global Aviator]

If we are talking about first job then it is the operators who should be doing the training. You can’t expect a newbie with zero time out of training to ‘get’ real commercial ops.

Eons ago when I did my CPL it was at a reputable school, lo and behold, luckily not long after landed that first job in a remote location. Erm how do you use the HF😳. So yes things slip and schools should make sure that everything is covered. I was employed at a time when there’s the keys there’s the aircraft off ya go, yep all 230 hours……

Move along a bit and I employed quite a few newbies with bare minimums from the CPL what counted was ATTITUDE and basic flying ability. It was then up to the team to smash out ICUS flying till they were up to speed and off ya go.

Now if you are talking 2nd / 3rd job then pilots should already be ready. However employers should be the ones spending the time.

I can’t believe there are still outfits around that charge for a check flight to see if you are employable!

So yes it’s a double edged sword, but have the right attitude, as many have said here up skill outside of aviation, and then 🤞🏾 for the good luck.

Now the ‘drive ready’ course… You’re onto something here, applications can be sent to dontbeasucker get out there and do it!

[PoppaJo]

And for gods sake make sure you get some Cessna time. I have spoken to 3 or 4 operators over the past year and they said their biggest problem has been new pilots who come from the city sausage factory flying schools having flown nothing other than a DA40, who can't even seem to operate a C172 properly :ugh:

Get at least 10 hours in a C206 and learn how to fly a nice tidy circuit, or a C182 at the very least.
DA40 time isn't competitive, sadly it's tied up with many of the financed courses, that will make job hunting challenging.

I think it would be wise for CPL students who are moving into the PIC time building phase, to plan out what one will spend the time in, don't do it all in a 152 or DA40 if you can. Research the employers, see what types they have, and plan accordingly. You will find near nobody does a large chunk of the hour building in a 206, so being that person, will make you competitive. I understand that not everyone can afford to do 50-100 hours in a 182/206, however 15 or 20 hours in each is more than most, that would still be a plus.

Any CV that passed my desk back in the day, that had 50-100 hours heavy Cessna PIC time, got my attention. They were the 5%. It was also much easier onboarding someone to a 210 that has spent significant time in a 206. Needless to say those 5% all got hired.

[mikewil]

If we are talking about first job then it is the operators who should be doing the training. You can’t expect a newbie with zero time out of training to ‘get’ real commercial ops.


True. However, it shouldn't be up to operators to have to spend hours teaching a new hire how to fly an acceptably tidy circuit in a C182. Once upon a time, fresh CPLs new how to attitude fly and fly a circuit that doesn't resemble that of a 737.

[lucille]

For the life of me, I don’t get the obsession with C206 time. I’d have thought genuine remote area experience in anything that defies gravity, especially in the areas your desired future employer operates would be far more useful. I don’t see how 30 hours tooling around Victoria in a C206 is more useful than 100 hours in a C-150 hopping around the Kimberlys in the wet season.

Easy to teach someone to fly anything your company’s way, not so easy to teach thinking out of the box.

45 years ago there wasn’t any black art to running an IO520, today it appears you need a thermodynamics degree to lean it and manage MP, RPM and the cowl flaps. In 1500 hours of 206/207/210 back then, I never heard of any premature engine rebuilds. What’s changed?

[Mr Mossberg]

45 years ago there wasn’t any black art to running an IO520, today it appears you need a thermodynamics degree to lean it and manage MP, RPM and the cowl flaps. In 1500 hours of 206/207/210 back then, I never heard of any premature engine rebuilds. What’s changed?

What's changed? The standard of freshly licenced CPL, greatly. There's no way I'd let probably 7 out of 10 of them at the controls of a 206.

[Mach E Avelli]

What's changed? The standard of freshly licenced CPL, greatly. There's no way I'd let probably 7 out of 10 of them at the controls of a 206.
In which case wouldn't a prudent operator properly induct a newbie, rather than take it that prior 206 time guarantees anything?

[krismiler]

I fly jets with 200 hr F/Os that I wouldn’t want to send out on a C206 charter flight let alone in Baron, which their CPL/IR would qualify them to do. A few of our Captains wouldn’t meet the insurance requirements for a Banderante command in PNG yet are flying jet airliners on international routes.

IMHO it’s how they’re trained and what they’re trained for that is the issue. A sausage machine school operating out of a capital city G/A airport is more likely to prepare students for an airline job rather than a bush one. Having a control tower, 2000m tar runway with VASIs and possibly an approach aid whilst flying a new generation training aircraft equipped with a glass cockpit isn’t good preparation for the bush.

Putting a product of this training system into a 30 year old C206 with a Garmin 100 and expecting them to operate into a short dirt strip in marginal VFR weather is asking for trouble.

Back in my day we learnt on round dials, because that’s all there was. Map reading was important because there wasn’t normally a beacon and GPS was still a few years away for civil use. I had several hundred hours experience before I knew what a VASI was and over 1000 hrs before operating into airports which had them.

However CRM training was non existent and multi crew was what you did when you got into an airline. No one knew about human factors and there was a lot less regulation and oversight. Flight data monitoring was in its infancy.

We were better prepared for a G/A job and less prepared for an airline one. This didn’t matter too much as you were unlikely to get near the airlines until you had at least 2000 hours under your belt.

Now the situation is reversed.

[theprincex]

What's changed? The standard of freshly licenced CPL, greatly. There's no way I'd let probably 7 out of 10 of them at the controls of a 206.
Is that the Government's fault for facilitating the Diploma student influx or training institutions dropping standards for maximum turnover? I feel something has gave in if that is a common sentiment felt by operators.

[Clare Prop]

Is that the Government's fault for facilitating the Diploma student influx or training institutions dropping standards for maximum turnover? I feel something has gave in if that is a common sentiment felt by operators.

Both. They are inextricably linked.

[runway16]

Global,
The idea with any commercial operator is to make money. It is said that if a GA operator makes 4% on investment they are doing good.
In part that means that they want pilots who need minimum flying before they are set loose on a money making mission.
To do any training costs in terms of aircraft, competent check/training pilots, fuel, decreased aircraft hours to make money, risks involved in training.
In short what an operator wants is a pilot who has what it takes to make money with minimum check flying, not training. Thus a pilot already trained and capable to fly their aircraft type and can be set loose to make money, safely, is the one who gets the job. Not having to spend time training someone to be capable.
R

[Clare Prop]

It's the job of the training organisation to ensure they are job ready and employable as part of the CPL training.
All that should be required by the employer is induction and standardisation.

[runway16]

Clare, Hi,
I could not agree with you more.
That gets back to the level of training that that new CPL received. In my opinion many new CPLs are just not Job Ready and that is where the post CPL sign off comes into being, to bring the candidate up to standard.
I feel that CASA and its Part 142 150 hours regs has a lot to answer for the production of new sub standard CPL holders who are just not Job Ready.
R

[Global Aviator]

Global,
The idea with any commercial operator is to make money. It is said that if a GA operator makes 4% on investment they are doing good.
In part that means that they want pilots who need minimum flying before they are set loose on a money making mission.
To do any training costs in terms of aircraft, competent check/training pilots, fuel, decreased aircraft hours to make money, risks involved in training.
In short what an operator wants is a pilot who has what it takes to make money with minimum check flying, not training. Thus a pilot already trained and capable to fly their aircraft type and can be set loose to make money, safely, is the one who gets the job. Not having to spend time training someone to be capable.
R

For a first job I disagree. You know you are employing a bare CPL that will need work and mentoring. In return if you treat each other right you get an employee who will fly your singles, into twins then off to greener pastures. Ok yes this was yesteryear!

Tell me how much does it cost you to do ICUS with a newbie pilot?

I do agree training organisations should do more, I don’t agree that a fresh CPL should be ready to have the keys thrown to them and off ya go. Investing time and money in people pays dividends (or used to).

In now debating with myself, is a fresh CPL ready to instruct? No they have to do a course, ready to paradrop? Nope need some training, ready for survey work, errrr…..

Any job after the first I agree wholeheartedly however we need to give the newbies a break after all we got one.

Newbies if readying this then yes I agree with alot of what’s written here in regards to upskilling and making sure you can fly a 6 pack!

[Clare Prop]

Clare, Hi,
I could not agree with you more.
That gets back to the level of training that that new CPL received. In my opinion many new CPLs are just not Job Ready and that is where the post CPL sign off comes into being, to bring the candidate up to standard.
I feel that CASA and its Part 142 150 hours regs has a lot to answer for the production of new sub standard CPL holders who are just not Job Ready.
R
Thre is no incentive to have them job ready or for the school to build a reputation of training pilots who will slot into commercial ops, because once they have signed up for the government loan they are in the trap and the school will be looking for the next lot.
Some statistics on how many enrol, how many finish and how many actually get a job within say three months of qualifying would be interesting and may need to be brought to the attention of some Senators who might want to know why on earth the government is funding this at all.
I have plenty of anecdotal stories about the success rates, surely the organisations have to provide this information to someone in Canberra to keep getting the money? Or do they??

[Going Nowhere]

What's changed? The standard of freshly licenced CPL, greatly. There's no way I'd let probably 7 out of 10 of them at the controls of a 206.

7 out of 10 probably aren’t interested in a 206. They’re already super excited to thank everyone on LinkedIn for the guidance and support that helped them get a job on *insert airline gig here*

[runway16]

Global, Hi.
Your reply an interesting read.
I disagree in that an operator, say a small charter operator, wants minimum expense for a new pilot before he makes money. Standisation, a check flight and maybe a route check but not 'Training' at large. The last say 10-15 years has seen a change in the dynamics of flight training. Sausage factories staffed by instructors who are still sucking on moma's tit, kids who still live at home and Dad expects the flight school to make them a man. Flight schools that talk of our highly experienced instructors - who only got their instructors ticket a month ago, and never flown out of the state.
Build time towing gliders. A good time building route because the gliding people look over your shoulder to ensure no bent metal. Para dropping. I got 45 minutes in a C185 before I was set loose. Now have done over 3500 sorties and 13000 plus jumpers but one thing it did teach me was working solo and under pressure and had to make sure I got it right.
Flight schools are interested in one thing - making money. What a lot lack is competent experienced instructors who have real skills to pass on to the new Bees.
I say again that CASA introducing Part 142 with 150 hours is creating inexperience new CPLs. It takes all of 200 hours to be happy that you will get home in one piece.
Investing time and training is something that my last CEO lacked and with thousands of hours there was no professional development for me. . That went to the less experienced instructors who were good drinking buddies with said CEO, and were always having a laugh in his office instead of doing the job. After they got their upgrade they then left with no contract to keep them on staff and return the PD.
Yes, times, attitudes and regulations as well as expectations have all changed in the last 10-15 years.
R

[mikewil]

For a first job I disagree. You know you are employing a bare CPL that will need work and mentoring.

Tell me how much does it cost you to do ICUS with a newbie pilot?


Mentoring a fresh CPL into becoming a proficient and confident commander is one thing, having to offer them "training" is another. ICUS costs little, however you cannot get give a new hire ICUS with paying pax on board if they cannot yet land a C206 without thumping it into ground and bouncing along the runway. Spending time doing this kind of "training" does cost money and is something that was once not required because fresh CPLs came through the door knowing how to land a Cessna and operate cowl flaps.

The 150 hour Part 142 system and associated funding model is an absolute disaster. Before the VET funding became available for pilot training, there was a HIGH dropout rate between beginning training and completion of a CPL (I am not sure of the exact number but I am pretty sure it was around 70-80%). Now with the funding, the dropout rate is what could be considered EXTREMELY HIGH (something like 95%+).

In the old days, it was in a flying schools best interest to have good instructors who took pride in what they did, as the paying students next hour of training was dependent on them enjoying and having a positive experience for the hard earned cash that they just parted with. So even though many instructors were themselves new CPL holders, their standards tended to be higher as they had motivation to be good at what they did as their next paid hour depended on it. It was also in their best interest to develop their students' skills, as it makes the instructors life easier as the student progresses through their training as it makes for a 'lighter workload' having a student who has mastered the basics when you move onto their Navigational exercises and more advanced levels of training.

What we have today in the sausage factory VET schools is an environment where fresh CPL instructors are paid a full time salary and despite a high drop-out rate, there is no shortage of students. These students have less concept of demanding a high standard of their instructors as they are blinded by the bright shiny Garmin G1000 in front of them and pictures of A350 cockpits on their flight school walls. They also don't feel the sting of having to open their wallets after each lesson so don't feel as financially invested in their training. Their instructors also don't really feel as invested in their students progression because they will constantly be handed different batches of students doing different "modules" of their training.

The end results of these two different environments is two vastly different products.

I speak of the above from personal experience and what I have observed (and also heard from others). I was an instructor at a small school where students were self funded, then moved onto a 'sausage factory' because of the stable income and I found that I was handed students with over 100 hours that had issues not present in those with less than 50 at my old flight training school. I subsequently moved back to one of the smaller schools when I was offered a salary as a more senior grade of instructor. I strongly believe the reason for this is that I took pride in seeing my students progress from the beginning of their training right through to their CPL (or PPL if that's what they desired). I also knew that teaching them how to do things properly and develop airmanship early on, would make my life easier as they progressed in their training (and made things less stressful when I had to send them out on a solo flight!). I believe these elements are the primary reasons that the sausage factory schools produce such a poor quality of product.

[Clare Prop]

Sadly I think the future is that the choice will be RAAus or sausage factory. This is the result of the privatisation of the airports and subsequent governments allowing the developer landlords to destroy the smaller operators (I'm looking at you, Mr Albanese, as the one who oversaw the worst of this in your era as minister and turned a deaf ear to industry representatives) meaning that only large multi nationals will be able to afford the rents, parking and landing fees. CASA have played their part in the rot as well.

The sausage factories are of course financed by the bottomless pit that is VET funding - disastrous though this is, if this were to stop now there could be no GA training at all.
We old schoolers can't keep going when the students are being lured away with the promise of "free flying" and a job in an Airbus on graduation,

For some reason these operators are exempt from the requirements of the ACCC: False or misleading claims | ACCC (https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/advertising-and-promotions/false-or-misleading-claims#SnippetTab)

Businesses shouldn't try to gain an unfair advantage by making misleading claims about their products or services.
Claims should be true, accurate and based on reasonable grounds.
A business must be able to prove any claim they advertise.

.

[PoppaJo]

Government's don't give a rats about the end product you talk about above, they are out to tick the lack of supply box with such schemes. Politicians are only out to show they are doing something, regardless if that is the right thing or not, and as per the recent Green paper, they actively talk up such schemes as soon as "pilot shortage" is mentioned. They have ticked the box and move on.

The future is sausage students, DA40 time with a "GA Ready" course done at the end to gain some 210 time.

[mikewil]

The future is sausage students, DA40 time with a "GA Ready" course done at the end to gain some 210 time.

I think you're sadly correct about this. I have had many former sausage factory students come through the door looking for a check flight to hire the C182 to get a bit of 'GA ready' experience and every one of them has said "I wish I just did my CPL at a place like this on a 'pay as you go' type arrangement whilst working another job to pay for it, then I'd have no debt and a CPL that cost me $80K and a better training experience rather than a $130K debt for that same CPL and a pretty lousy training experience".

It is sad that due to the massive turnover rates at sausage factories, students almost dread their training time because they feel rushed in the whole experience, can't get any extra time to ask their instructor a few questions and can't even spend an extra 5 minutes to become comfortable with the pre-flight inspection and run-ups because the instructor needs to promptly kick their ass out and not run late for the next 4 students of the day.

[Clare Prop]

I hear exactly the same. "I didn't realise there was any other way of doing it" is another lament when they come in, cosplaying an airline pilot, with a worthless resume...

Such a huge investment and 50% of it could have been used to get some valuable command hours day and night. One of my instructors is also a financial advisor and strongly advises against it, yet they take the word of completely unqualified sales people instead and get themselves into terrible financial strife.

[Kundry]

182/206/210's are easy to steer if you got good brains. Many Wellcamp students now flying them up north after doing their CPL in a Diamond. I used to call the Diamond machines gliders but upon 5 seconds of research I found out it's got a glide ratio of 11:1 which is not even close to an actual glider. Diamonds and VSL courses are becoming a bit of a scapegoat in the industry.

Real problem is CPL graduates who don't leave the city. I would suggest if you are a young white male who has poor social skills, a CPL in hand and still live at home with parents that you are in the same bucket as about 300 other CPLs issued that year. No, doing an instructor rating will not fix the problem and get you a job. I would suggest the young females are more productive hires to flight schools because of their different perspectives and life experience (no I'm not being sarcastic here, the female instructors I have flown with are great and their emotional intelligence adds a whole new level to instruction).

So no motivation to absolutely "hustle" and exhaust every possible avenue, every possible town in Australia for a job, no social network and no qualifications that make you stand out (ie I worked at the same place for 6 years since year 9) < This could be anyone, regardless of whether you self funded a CPL or not.

Even then, as I found, you can do everything right and still not find a flying job in this country. There are probably some fellas out there with a great attitude, great flying skills etc who have been training in a Diamond at a sausage factory then done a famil in a 210 with no worries - even then, that person will still be competing with ~1000 other CPLs. The odds are not in your favour.

Don't throw every student who did a HELP loan course in the bin. It seems I have to defend myself a lot. Meet someone in aviation, they ask where I did my training - I can see it in their eyes, they are ready to judge me if I went to a sausage factory! I had someone in another thread suggest I didn't care about aviation enough. That I signed up for a VET course because I saw airliners on the website. Completely wrong. False assumption. Bit annoying to be judged like that.

[PoppaJo]

Perhaps a review is in order for all VET operators. Those with low completion rates need to be investigated and the ability to offer such services pulled. Providers should have some hurdles to jump through in order to offer such services, ie aircraft types, timeframes etc. As we have seen with one ex operator in Melbourne, they are lured by greed, ie government cash. I know one GA CFI who has put on an extra Instructor, purely to deal with the demand from ex Diploma students from over the road, all coming to him begging for help. Kundry, your point is valid, sadly many others have given the VET student a bad name, one charter owner I was speaking to not that long ago refers to them as "sausages and diamonds".

For the life of me, I don’t get the obsession with C206 time. I’d have thought genuine remote area experience in anything that defies gravity, especially in the areas your desired future employer operates would be far more useful. I don’t see how 30 hours tooling around Victoria in a C206 is more useful than 100 hours in a C-150 hopping around the Kimberlys in the wet season.
True, the remote experience is certainly helpful, regardless of type. A dozen hours in a 206/210 is somewhat something, for those from Melbourne or Sydney, who have never ventured outside the border.

[lucille]

I’ve spent the last 30 years of my career overseas, so completely out of touch with GA here. I looked online and was dismayed to see there are no operators of C2xx types in Mt Isa, once a bustling base for Lanhams. Probably the same story played out across many other towns. . Has all the SE day VFR charter type work been extinguished by demands from FIFO workers for multi crew pressurised turbo props.?

If so, that just leaves joyflights, glider towing and meat bombing. Not exactly rich pickings.

Do cattle stations no longer employ CPLs? This was a common start in the old days. Chasing cows (4 legged ones) and doing the station shopping in Darwin was how I got my start.

A few years ago, I met a young guy driving an Uber, getting close to his CPL but now saving up for his MEIR plus wait for it…. a B200 rating! Tried to talk sense into him, telling him no one would employ someone with 250 hours to fly a Kingair, but he was pumped and knew better. It’s arguable that with 250 hours, he should be flying single pilot in hard IMC. Often wonder who talked him into it and how he went. How times have changed.

From what I read, it looks like it’s an order of magnitude more difficult for todays young CPL to get their first job than for us 50 years ago. They have my sympathy.

[PoppaJo]

You will find many mining operated/owned airports, even some hardcore council operated strips, in QLD, are not overly accommodating to GA aircraft. Or they will slug some huge fee to stop by. I am sure some on here will have some stories to tell from unfriendly operators.

Just double check ERSA as some places charge GA aircraft hefty fees if you land between xx time of the day.