JUSTICE SERVED!!

[dragon man]

Qantas lost

[joe_bloggs]

Qantas case dismissed in High courtJust nowBy Liana Walker

Qantas has lost its High Court appeal over the sacking of 1700 workers during the pandemic.

The jobs of baggage handlers and cleaners at ten airports were outsourced, as the airline faced a dramatic decline in business.

Qantas maintained it made the decision for sound commercial reasons.

But the Transport Workers Union told the High Court the airline had also been motivated to head off industrial action when things returned to normal, in breach of the Fair Work Act.

Today the High Court unanimously dismissed the appeal by Qantas.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-13/high-court-rules-in-qantas-twu-battle-over-ground-crew-staff/102848684?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

[hotnhigh]

https://www.transparency.org/en/what-is-corruption


it’s simple really. The whole house of cards are about to fall down. Things are going to get a lot worse before it gets better

[ampclamp]

Wonderful news!!

[dragon man]

Surely now Joyce loses his OA and gets no bonuses, Hudson and Goyder both have to go and an outsider bought in. Well done the TWU a great day for Australian workers.

[dragon man]

https://www.transparency.org/en/what-is-corruption


it’s simple really. The whole house of cards are about to fall down. Things are going to get a lot worse before it gets better


No never, Boston consulting to the rescue.

[Capt Fathom]

The Chairman’s Lounge ranks are about to get thinner!

[SandyPalms]

Not only did they lose, it was unanimous.

[hotnhigh]

Goyder and the board showing the ultimate characteristics of teamwork and leadership.
AFL needs to take note.

[Lead Balloon]

One page summary of judgment: here (https://www.hcourt.gov.au/assets/publications/judgment-summaries/2023/hca-27-2023-09-13.pdf). You only need to read the last paragraph.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

’Appeal again! We can’t possibly be wrong! Waaahhh!’

[dragon man]

QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED & ANOR v TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION OF AUSTRALIA
[2023] HCA 27
Today, the High Court unanimously dismissed an appeal from a judgment of a full court of the Federal Court of Australia. The appeal concerned whether a decision by Qantas Airways Limited ("Qantas") to outsource its ground handling operations at ten Australian airports contravened s 340(1)(b) of the Fair Work Act 2009 (Cth) ("the Act"). The effect of the outsourcing decision was that ground handling services then being performed by employees of Qantas and Qantas Ground Services Pty Ltd ("QGS"), many of whom were members of the Transport Workers Union of Australia ("the TWU"), would instead be performed by staff of third-party suppliers.
Section 340(1)(b) provided that a person must not take adverse action against another person "to prevent the exercise of a workplace right by the other person". A person has a workplace right "if the person ... is able to initiate, or participate in, a process or proceedings under a workplace law or workplace instrument" (s 341(1)(b)). It was agreed that Qantas took adverse action against the affected employees in making the outsourcing decision. At the time of the outsourcing decision the affected employees were prohibited from organising or engaging in protected industrial action under the Act because the affected Qantas employees' enterprise agreement had not reached its nominal expiry date and the affected QGS employees were practically unable to take protected industrial action. The TWU commenced proceedings in the Federal Court, with issues arising as to whether Qantas could prove that it did not make the outsourcing decision to prevent the exercise of workplace rights by affected employees and whether the outsourcing decision prevented the exercise of workplace rights.
The primary judge found that, while Qantas had "commercial imperatives" for making the outsourcing decision, Qantas had not discharged its onus under s 361 of the Act of disproving that the reasons for the outsourcing decision included preventing the exercise of workplace rights, namely preventing employees from engaging in protected industrial action and participating in enterprise bargaining. The primary judge found that Qantas had contravened s 340(1)(b) of the Act. The full court dismissed Qantas' appeal.
The issue before the High Court was whether s 340(1)(b) of the Act prohibited a person from taking adverse action against another person for the purpose of preventing the exercise of a workplace right that might arise in the future. The High Court unanimously held that it did and, in so doing, rejected Qantas' contention that s 340(1)(b) only proscribed adverse action for the purpose of preventing the exercise of a presently existing workplace right.

[PoppaJo]

It’s a ‘sorry, but not sorry’ response.

They got what they wanted, which was a reduction in overheads. A few penalties is just a drop in the ocean compared to what they will save in the coming years and decades. That’s how they think and operate, and it’s still a victory in AJs playbook, illegal or not.

[Icarus2001]

The fine and any compensation amounts will be viewed as simply the cost of doing business.

Guess what, who do you think pays for their decision in the end? Their passengers.

[dragon man]

And the taxpayer because it’s tax deductible as are the costs.

[1A_Please]

And the taxpayer because it’s tax deductible as are the costs.
FInes are not tax deductible. Compensation would be but fines are definitely not.

[cLeArIcE]

100% the fines would've already been factored in to a cost benefit analysis of outsourcing the work. They knew there were going to lose this one a while ago.

[V-Jet]

100% the fines would've already been factored in to a cost benefit analysis of outsourcing the work. They knew there were going to lose this one a while ago.


When one takes everything into account you realise just how fortuitous it was that Joyce woke up in June one morning and (just as he did when he had the epiphany to shut the airline down in 2011) decided to sell $17m worth of shares he accumulated over ten years instead of even just a few weeks later, or even today!!


Bluestar Airlines anyone??

[gordonfvckingramsay]

When Slater and Gordon get involved for the class action….

[RENURPP]

It looks to me that some people were not paying attention at the informative and very interesting OSOB courses. 🤪🤪

[1A_Please]

100% the fines would've already been factored in to a cost benefit analysis of outsourcing the work. They knew there were going to lose this one a while ago.
As Kenny Rodgers said "You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them." If you know you're going to lose, you don't appeal to the High Court and turn what would be an embarrassing but fairly low-key settlement into a highly visible PR disaster.

[neville_nobody]

The Litmus Test for what the Chairman’s Lounge is really about will be if QF keep High Court Judges on the books. If QF come out in the next few weeks and remove the High Court from the lounge then that will speak volumes about what is really going on.

[Chris2303]

As Kenny Rodgers said "You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them." If you know you're going to lose, you don't appeal to the High Court and turn what would be an embarrassing but fairly low-key settlement into a highly visible PR disaster.

Precisely. Just adding to all the bad news - there is probably no good news that can counteract all the bad!

[KRviator]

The fine and any compensation amounts will be viewed as simply the cost of doing business.

Guess what, who do you think pays for their decision in the end? Their passengers.And therein lies the problem. A fine, or penalty is a one-off payment. What should occur to discourage such actions in the future is for Qantas (or any business who pulls a similar trick) to have to pay an annual and till-the-end-of-time fine equivalent to the $$ they think they have "saved" by punting their workforce.

Ie, if QF had done nothing, their in-house staff would have cost $100M. But they punted them and now outsourcing only costs $50M, ergo, they should have to pay an annual fine of $50M, to dissuade a repeat and such a once-off fine being viewed as "just the cost of doing business".

Why? Because sure they can outsource, and if its' found to be legal, then yep, they will save that $50M, but if it's found to be illegal, then there's no savings to be had at all, so why run the risk?

Ain't gonna happen though, and unless the fine is in the billions of dollars, then there's no disincentive for it to happen again, save bad PR...

[walesregent]

The Litmus Test for what the Chairman’s Lounge is really about will be if QF keep High Court Judges on the books. If QF come out in the next few weeks and remove the High Court from the lounge then that will speak volumes about what is really going on.


I think Qantas is now left pondering who owns who. They will be f*cked if they start cutting privileges because court rulings don’t go their way.

[dragon man]

data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7Qantas faces $200m-plus penalty for illegal outsourcingQantas has apologised to workers whose jobs were illegally outsourced during the pandemic, after a High Court ruling went against the airline.
https://archive.md/sdXRW/58258d505773de9c064f0439546f2f699ea2f4b5.png (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/robyn-ironside)Robyn Ironside (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/robyn-ironside)Aviation Writer
@ironsider (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/https://twitter.com/ironsider)
4 min read
September 13, 2023 - 2:18PMThe Australian Business Network
https://archive.md/sdXRW/c0d8572f579409cfe07c21b08099dbe76cee96a6.webp
Katter’s Australian Party MP Bob Katter says he will be moving for an inquiry into the Qantas board. “These people that are the slithering Sydney suits that control the share market are corporations in Australia,” Mr Katter told Sky News Australia. He said both the BHP and Qantas boards have been known to appoint CEOs who “are not Australian”. “I have a particular interest here because amongst the first two or three hundred investors in Qantas was my family. “We lost a lot of money, but we didn’t lose money – we invested that money in providing a service for people of outback Australia.”


Qantas could face a penalty of more than $200m for the illegal outsourcing of ground handling workers, after the High Court found the decision was motivated by a desire to prevent future industrial action.
The case will now go back to the Federal Court to determine an appropriate penalty after the High Court upheld two previous rulings in favour of the Transport Workers Union.
In a momentous decision, the High Court dismissed Qantas’ appeal, and found the airline was motivated by prohibited reasons in the mass sacking — namely a desire to prevent industrial action when a new enterprise agreement was negotiated.
In response to the ruling, Qantas said it acknowledged and accepted the High Court’s decision to uphold two prior rulings by the Federal Court.
“As we have said from the beginning, we deeply regret the personal impact the outsourcing decision had on all those affected and we sincerely apologise for that,” said a statement.
“A prior decision by the Federal Court has ruled out reinstatement of workers but it will now consider penalties for the breach and compensation for relevant employees which will factor in redundancy payments already made by Qantas.”
The TWU had argued Qantas used the pandemic to enact a years-old plan to dismantle the heavily unionised workforce consisting of baggage handlers, tug drivers and cleaners.
Qantas claimed it was purely motivated by “commercial reasons” with the outsourcing intended to save the airline $100m a year in labour costs, and another $80m over five years in equipment and maintenance.
TWU national secretary Michael Kaine hailed the decision as a “massive result” for workers and repeated calls for the Qantas board to go.
“It has been three years and 20 days since Alan Joyce first announced the decision to outsource these workers, and they have not stopped fighting for a moment to ensure justice was served,” said Mr Kaine.
“The final act of this board should be to strip Alan Joyce of his bonuses and follow him out the door.”
He said it was impossible for Qantas to start afresh with “the same board that resided over the largest case of illegal sackings in Australian corporate history”.
“Richard Goyder cannot make it through another day as chair,” Mr Kaine said.
“Qantas needs a fresh start. A worker voice on the board would make a significant difference and send the right signal that Qantas is serious about getting back on track.”
Mr Kaine also called on new chief executive Vanessa Hudson to publicly apologise to the sacked workers, and commit to a “non-adversarial to Federal Court hearings on compensation and penalties”.
The unanimous judgment rejected Qantas’s argument (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantastwu-battle-over-outsourcing-of-jobs-heads-to-high-court/news-story/39d2f4fa043bfb3474cd80d5d6725aa8) that it could not deny workers their rights to protected industrial action, when they did not have those rights at the time of the outsourcing.
“In short, a person who takes adverse action against another person for a substantial and operative reason of preventing the exercise of a workplace right by the other person contravenes (the Fair Work Act), regardless of whether that other person has the relevant workplace right at the time the adverse action is taken,” said the ruling.
“Qantas did not avoid the operation of (the Fair Work Act) in relation to its adverse action by taking the action prior to the existence of the workplace rights, the exercise of which Qantas sought to thwart.”
https://archive.md/sdXRW/d99ace5237b42f891af17d49bad4d196dc9f5e14.webp
In 1996, you could fly from Sydney to London first class return for about 200,000 Qantas Frequent Flyer points – now you’ll need more than twice that.
Maurice Blackburn Lawyers principal Josh Bornstein indicated a penalty in the vicinity of $100m would be sought by the TWU plus compensation for the workers which could amount to another $100m plus.
He said Qantas had profited by dragging out the case for years.
“Qantas argued in the High Court that it should be permitted to sack workers merely because they wanted to bargain with the airline. Had the appeal succeeded, it would have greenlighted the further de-unionisation of the labour market by big business,” Mr Bornstein said.
“Qantas has fought this case every step of the way. For three long years, the sacked workers have waited for justice. During that time, the company has profited significantly from its illegal conduct”.
Multinational companies including Swissport, Menzies and dnata were contracted by Qantas to do the work in the place of its own workforce.
As travel ramped up, the outsourcing was blamed for multiple problems for customers, including higher rates of mishandled and damaged luggage, long waits at baggage carousels and minor collisions between aircraft and vehicles on the tarmac.
Other unions joined the TWU in hailing the High Court decision.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia said it was a clear victory for workers, and the Australian Services Union said the decision was “another nail in the coffin for the manner of business undertaken by Qantas under previous management”.
“Qantas has been in the news for all the wrong reasons and new management has a serious task ahead of it to rebuild the trust of workers and the travelling public,” said ASU assistant national secretary Emaline Gaske.
“Looking ahead, the ASU will collaborate with new management to put an end to years of outsourcing and relentless cost-cutting.”
Qantas had been sweating on the decision after weeks of negative publicity and public outrage over a mountain of unused travel credits, high airfares and big executive bonuses. More Coveragehttps://archive.md/sdXRW/bb35f795bb8a8a69811c65fbbef380b1e3ee1214.jpg (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/qantas-calls-on-total-transformation-specialist-bcg-to-manage-ceo-change-and-rebuild-image/news-story/fd945897553f55993fdda1581d2e7701)Qantas drafts in ‘transformation’ specialist (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/qantas-calls-on-total-transformation-specialist-bcg-to-manage-ceo-change-and-rebuild-image/news-story/fd945897553f55993fdda1581d2e7701)
https://archive.md/sdXRW/bb35f795bb8a8a69811c65fbbef380b1e3ee1214.jpg (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/qantas-chair-goyder-must-clear-out-the-board-after-joyce-woes/news-story/811cb344701615204dc53639482ba6a3)Qantas chair must clear out the board after Joyce woes (https://archive.md/o/sdXRW/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/qantas-chair-goyder-must-clear-out-the-board-after-joyce-woes/news-story/811cb344701615204dc53639482ba6a3)
The company is also facing a lawsuit by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, alleging Qantas sold tickets on already cancelled flights in early to mid-2022.
The growing crises enveloping Qantas resulted in former CEO Alan Joyce bringing forward his retirement by two-months last week to “help accelerate the renewal process”.
Ms Hudson has kept a low profile since taking over the top job, after directing her executive team to fix problems and focus on customers

[Lead Balloon]

The Litmus Test for what the Chairman’s Lounge is really about will be if QF keep High Court Judges on the books. If QF come out in the next few weeks and remove the High Court from the lounge then that will speak volumes about what is really going on.Qantas won't punt High Court judges from the CL.
What should happen is that the Parliament should legislate to ban any Commonwealth official, judge, member of Parliament, member of the ADF etc from accepting the largesse. And pigs might fly...

[MK 4A Tank]

Qantas illegally fired 1,700 workers during pandemic - top court - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66793496)

[dragon man]

All of this makes me so happy.
‘Workers put through hell’: Qantas loses High Court appeal over sacking of 1,700 staffAs one pilot remarked, 'Pity Joyce wasn't here to face the fire that he caused. Hopefully some more heads will roll'.

MICHAEL SAINSBURY (https://www.crikey.com.au/author/michael-sainsbury/)

SEP 13, 2023

30 (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/13/qantas-high-court-appeal-pilots-engineers/#comments)

Give this article
https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0W77psN4utHNMoeoQalWGK3wjHDPvpxt2CyxwC25VFjMUEHPoXXhFZQh3LYa RldHxdZ9TqhJbfVLkjkRsckyxQOvBj2LmYAC3a4kD_aZTSD-bj7mFgmpan1mgqgm-Ma_o3eIKwm6rI8CNaHT_eUDD6vxmpU=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/20230814001830751654-original-copy.jpg?w=740FORMER QANTAS CEO ALAN JOYCE (IMAGE: AAP/DEAN LEWINS)Qantas has today lost its appeal (https://www.hcourt.gov.au/assets/publications/judgment-summaries/2023/hca-27-2023-09-13.pdf) to the High Court for illegally sacking 1,700 baggage handlers, cleaners and ground staff, and calls for a clean-out of the airline’s board have reached fever pitch.

Qantas has now been found guilty by the Federal Court, the Federal Court of Appeals and Australia’s highest court in a devastating unanimous decision by the seven justices in a case brought by the Transport Workers’ Union (TWU). The national carrier is now on the path to paying the multimillion-dollar legal bill on both sides, compensation to workers, and to clawing back bonuses from senior executives.

During the court hearings, Qantas conveniently maintained (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fbusiness%2Favi ation%2Fembattled-qantas-hoping-for-high-court-win-in-outsourcing-case-brought-by-the-twu%2Fnews-story%2Fd3435f6ed7c1b0dcb6c22dc7b0dc3807&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-groupa-control-noscore&V21spcbehaviour=append) that the “sole decision-maker” in the matter was domestic and international division CEO Andrew David, who leaves the company this month — but the strategy clearly came from the top of the company.

Qantas chairman Richard Goyder and the entire board must be replaced by new directors, including a worker representative, after the High Court today unanimously upheld two Federal Court verdicts that Qantas illegally outsourced 1,700 workers, the TWU said.

The decision is the latest blow to the airline, already under fire for selling tickets for 8,000 flights it allegedly knew were already cancelled in 2022, and has significantly amplified the already tumultuous start to new CEO Vanessa Hudson’s administration.
https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0aFqJGT5is6a4vCpt2f3Mk2Mb3oNIh9OUKcphxdUuvfWXg9N1Oz9npiLiJCO JRnRZaCKVin-irH0SinL3xt5Np1k9I0tPqpr3wQPcnnI5g4ZWXD4-08jjWbzVdvuM0u8PkX6j5GG8yUO8ECKA7DZN0SeAZ1SHJWpuJnaMA=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/20230824001834137415-original.jpg?w=224&h=120&crop=1 (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/12/qantas-hires-mohammed-bin-salmans-reputation-launderer/)Qantas critics for the meat grinder? Airline hires bin Salman’s reputation launderer (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/12/qantas-hires-mohammed-bin-salmans-reputation-launderer/)Read More (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/12/qantas-hires-mohammed-bin-salmans-reputation-launderer/)“You owe these workers and their families a deep and sincere apology,” TWU national secretary Michael Kaine told Hudson.

“These workers have been put through hell. Their families have been put through hell. Their lives have been dislocated. Some of them forever. Separations. Loss of property. That’s the consequence of this illegal decision. You need to apologise to these workers straightaway. And not just in words, but in actions.”

The decision should see the removal of senior staff and legal advisers from the company, and may well be the final nail in the coffin for Goyder and many of his board members, who backed the strategy. The company has spent millions of shareholder funds fighting the TWU, which has scored a major victory for Qantas staff and Australian workers.

Qantas staff are also hopeful that the decision will see a much-needed clean-out at the company. “Good that this didn’t go Qantas’ way. Pity Joyce wasn’t here to face the fire that he caused. Hopefully some more heads will roll”, one engineer said.

A Qantas pilot said: “The company had no moral compass and would make Gordon Gekko blush.”

Today’s decision will also serve as a wake-up call for corporate Australia. As Josh Bornstein, partner at law firm Maurice Blackburn who ran the TWU case, said: “Had the appeal succeeded, it would have greenlighted the further de-unionisation of the labour market by big business.”

“When companies outsource workers like Qantas, they effectively avoid having to bargain with their labour. Instead, they engage labour hire agencies and dictate to those agencies what they are willing to pay for labour. Outsourcing has been one of the reasons that employees have lost the ability to obtain real wage increases. Qantas engaged in a collective bargaining avoidance scheme and, thankfully, the High Court has recognised that it was illegal.”

The Federal Court found that (https://www.twu.com.au/companies/qantas/twu-wins-qantas-case/) during the height of the coronavirus pandemic, when most aviation was shut down, Qantas seized on a “vanishing window of opportunity” to get rid of its unionised baggage handlers, sacking the workers when they were deprived of bargaining power.

Qantas counsel Justin Gleeson SC told the High Court at its hearing in May that the airline was “bleeding cash” due to the pandemic. Since then it has posted a profit of almost $2.5 billion for the 2023 financial year.

Qantas received $2.7 billion in taxpayer subsidies (https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/10/19/qantas-profit-keeps-millions-in-jobkeeper/) throughout the pandemic, $856 million of which was JobKeeper to keep workers employed — the highest amount of JobKeeper paid to any company. Yet, by August 2021, 9,400 employees had left Qantas following redundancies and outsourcing.
https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/JOTseTjAH28ejrJMwJFm59pNof74IrpmPWCah-vFM9xH0WuF_jCDgoSAbBRcTHoq2yMB1SJ22NJauMCQXGBGr4UszXevVDfVBs JrWGJgWQO14Qmd0CnVp2KejJY3HuWnBisFZ6bWQTDWYhg5gFLWHJdbLxAyWg tnavkud5PMDngS=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/20230502001793507924-original-copy.jpg?w=224&h=120&crop=1 (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/11/richard-goyder-qantas-chairman-alan-joyce/)Richard Goyder’s days as Qantas chairman are numbered — and deservedly so (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/11/richard-goyder-qantas-chairman-alan-joyce/)Read More (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/11/richard-goyder-qantas-chairman-alan-joyce/)Qantas argued it could not have breached employee rights, as employees did not have the right to take protected industrial action at the time of the decision to outsource.

“The issue before the High Court was whether s 340(1)(b) of the act prohibited a person from taking adverse action against another person for the purpose of preventing the exercise of a workplace right that might arise in the future. The High Court unanimously held that it did and, in so doing, rejected Qantas’ contention that s 340(1)(b) only proscribed adverse action for the purpose of preventing the exercise of a presently existing workplace right,” the High Court said in a summary of its judgment.

Bornstein said Qantas had profited by dragging out the case for three years. “Qantas argued in the High Court that it should be permitted to sack workers merely because they wanted to bargain with the airline.”

“Qantas has fought this case every step of the way. For three long years, the sacked workers have waited for justice. During that time, the company has profited significantly from its illegal conduct”.

“The case isn’t over. Our legal team will now ask the Federal Court to hear claims for compensation for all adversely impacted workers and then seek a substantial penalty against Qantas,” said Bornstein.

Since the outsourcing, Qantas’ service has nosedived, TWU said, with complaints increasing 70% in 2022 amid high cancellations, delays and lost baggage. Company sources said that the only answer from Qantas’ airport managers, 10 days ago, was to “get Dnata [a ground handling outsourcer] to reduce delays”.

“The decision to outsource the remainder of the airline’s ground handling function was made in August 2020, when borders were closed, lockdowns were in place and no COVID vaccine existed. The likelihood of a years-long crisis led Qantas to restructure its business to improve its ability to survive and ultimately recover,“ Qantas said in a brief statement (https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-statement-on-high-court-decision/). “As we have said from the beginning, we deeply regret the personal impact the outsourcing decision had on all those affected and we sincerely apologise for that.”

“When you decide to fight Qantas, you know you have to throw everything at it … A real David and Goliath struggle, but it shows what workers can achieve when they pull together and join together and stand up for what is right through the union,” ACTU boss Sally McManus said.

Qantas faces three further court challenges: record penalties of $600 million sought by the ACCC for selling alleged cancelled flights, a criminal prosecution from the NSW safety regulator for standing down a health and safety representative during the pandemic, and a class action from angry customers who say they were misled and denied refunds.

Crikey has learned from staff based at Sydney Airport that former CEO Alan Joyce boarded an Emirates flight to Dublin the day he departed the company, accompanied by a security detail so he did not “have to interact with other passengers or onlookers

[blubak]

All of this makes me so happy.‘Workers put through hell’: Qantas loses High Court appeal over sacking of 1,700 staffAs one pilot remarked, 'Pity Joyce wasn't here to face the fire that he caused. Hopefully some more heads will roll'.

MICHAEL SAINSBURY (https://www.crikey.com.au/author/michael-sainsbury/)

SEP 13, 2023

30 (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/13/qantas-high-court-appeal-pilots-engineers/#comments)

Give this article
https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0W77psN4utHNMoeoQalWGK3wjHDPvpxt2CyxwC25VFjMUEHPoXXhFZQh3LYa RldHxdZ9TqhJbfVLkjkRsckyxQOvBj2LmYAC3a4kD_aZTSD-bj7mFgmpan1mgqgm-Ma_o3eIKwm6rI8CNaHT_eUDD6vxmpU=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/20230814001830751654-original-copy.jpg?w=740FORMER QANTAS CEO ALAN JOYCE (IMAGE: AAP/DEAN LEWINS)Qantas has today lost its appeal (https://www.hcourt.gov.au/assets/publications/judgment-summaries/2023/hca-27-2023-09-13.pdf) to the High Court for illegally sacking 1,700 baggage handlers, cleaners and ground staff, and calls for a clean-out of the airline’s board have reached fever pitch.

Qantas has now been found guilty by the Federal Court, the Federal Court of Appeals and Australia’s highest court in a devastating unanimous decision by the seven justices in a case brought by the Transport Workers’ Union (TWU). The national carrier is now on the path to paying the multimillion-dollar legal bill on both sides, compensation to workers, and to clawing back bonuses from senior executives.

During the court hearings, Qantas conveniently maintained (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fbusiness%2Favi ation%2Fembattled-qantas-hoping-for-high-court-win-in-outsourcing-case-brought-by-the-twu%2Fnews-story%2Fd3435f6ed7c1b0dcb6c22dc7b0dc3807&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-groupa-control-noscore&V21spcbehaviour=append) that the “sole decision-maker” in the matter was domestic and international division CEO Andrew David, who leaves the company this month — but the strategy clearly came from the top of the company.

Qantas chairman Richard Goyder and the entire board must be replaced by new directors, including a worker representative, after the High Court today unanimously upheld two Federal Court verdicts that Qantas illegally outsourced 1,700 workers, the TWU said.

The decision is the latest blow to the airline, already under fire for selling tickets for 8,000 flights it allegedly knew were already cancelled in 2022, and has significantly amplified the already tumultuous start to new CEO Vanessa Hudson’s administration.
https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/0aFqJGT5is6a4vCpt2f3Mk2Mb3oNIh9OUKcphxdUuvfWXg9N1Oz9npiLiJCO JRnRZaCKVin-irH0SinL3xt5Np1k9I0tPqpr3wQPcnnI5g4ZWXD4-08jjWbzVdvuM0u8PkX6j5GG8yUO8ECKA7DZN0SeAZ1SHJWpuJnaMA=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/20230824001834137415-original.jpg?w=224&h=120&crop=1 (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/12/qantas-hires-mohammed-bin-salmans-reputation-launderer/)Qantas critics for the meat grinder? Airline hires bin Salman’s reputation launderer (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/12/qantas-hires-mohammed-bin-salmans-reputation-launderer/)Read More (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/12/qantas-hires-mohammed-bin-salmans-reputation-launderer/)“You owe these workers and their families a deep and sincere apology,” TWU national secretary Michael Kaine told Hudson.

“These workers have been put through hell. Their families have been put through hell. Their lives have been dislocated. Some of them forever. Separations. Loss of property. That’s the consequence of this illegal decision. You need to apologise to these workers straightaway. And not just in words, but in actions.”

The decision should see the removal of senior staff and legal advisers from the company, and may well be the final nail in the coffin for Goyder and many of his board members, who backed the strategy. The company has spent millions of shareholder funds fighting the TWU, which has scored a major victory for Qantas staff and Australian workers.

Qantas staff are also hopeful that the decision will see a much-needed clean-out at the company. “Good that this didn’t go Qantas’ way. Pity Joyce wasn’t here to face the fire that he caused. Hopefully some more heads will roll”, one engineer said.

A Qantas pilot said: “The company had no moral compass and would make Gordon Gekko blush.”

Today’s decision will also serve as a wake-up call for corporate Australia. As Josh Bornstein, partner at law firm Maurice Blackburn who ran the TWU case, said: “Had the appeal succeeded, it would have greenlighted the further de-unionisation of the labour market by big business.”

“When companies outsource workers like Qantas, they effectively avoid having to bargain with their labour. Instead, they engage labour hire agencies and dictate to those agencies what they are willing to pay for labour. Outsourcing has been one of the reasons that employees have lost the ability to obtain real wage increases. Qantas engaged in a collective bargaining avoidance scheme and, thankfully, the High Court has recognised that it was illegal.”

The Federal Court found that (https://www.twu.com.au/companies/qantas/twu-wins-qantas-case/) during the height of the coronavirus pandemic, when most aviation was shut down, Qantas seized on a “vanishing window of opportunity” to get rid of its unionised baggage handlers, sacking the workers when they were deprived of bargaining power.

Qantas counsel Justin Gleeson SC told the High Court at its hearing in May that the airline was “bleeding cash” due to the pandemic. Since then it has posted a profit of almost $2.5 billion for the 2023 financial year.

Qantas received $2.7 billion in taxpayer subsidies (https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/10/19/qantas-profit-keeps-millions-in-jobkeeper/) throughout the pandemic, $856 million of which was JobKeeper to keep workers employed — the highest amount of JobKeeper paid to any company. Yet, by August 2021, 9,400 employees had left Qantas following redundancies and outsourcing.
https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/JOTseTjAH28ejrJMwJFm59pNof74IrpmPWCah-vFM9xH0WuF_jCDgoSAbBRcTHoq2yMB1SJ22NJauMCQXGBGr4UszXevVDfVBs JrWGJgWQO14Qmd0CnVp2KejJY3HuWnBisFZ6bWQTDWYhg5gFLWHJdbLxAyWg tnavkud5PMDngS=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/20230502001793507924-original-copy.jpg?w=224&h=120&crop=1 (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/11/richard-goyder-qantas-chairman-alan-joyce/)Richard Goyder’s days as Qantas chairman are numbered — and deservedly so (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/11/richard-goyder-qantas-chairman-alan-joyce/)Read More (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/11/richard-goyder-qantas-chairman-alan-joyce/)Qantas argued it could not have breached employee rights, as employees did not have the right to take protected industrial action at the time of the decision to outsource.

“The issue before the High Court was whether s 340(1)(b) of the act prohibited a person from taking adverse action against another person for the purpose of preventing the exercise of a workplace right that might arise in the future. The High Court unanimously held that it did and, in so doing, rejected Qantas’ contention that s 340(1)(b) only proscribed adverse action for the purpose of preventing the exercise of a presently existing workplace right,” the High Court said in a summary of its judgment.

Bornstein said Qantas had profited by dragging out the case for three years. “Qantas argued in the High Court that it should be permitted to sack workers merely because they wanted to bargain with the airline.”

“Qantas has fought this case every step of the way. For three long years, the sacked workers have waited for justice. During that time, the company has profited significantly from its illegal conduct”.

“The case isn’t over. Our legal team will now ask the Federal Court to hear claims for compensation for all adversely impacted workers and then seek a substantial penalty against Qantas,” said Bornstein.

Since the outsourcing, Qantas’ service has nosedived, TWU said, with complaints increasing 70% in 2022 amid high cancellations, delays and lost baggage. Company sources said that the only answer from Qantas’ airport managers, 10 days ago, was to “get Dnata [a ground handling outsourcer] to reduce delays”.

“The decision to outsource the remainder of the airline’s ground handling function was made in August 2020, when borders were closed, lockdowns were in place and no COVID vaccine existed. The likelihood of a years-long crisis led Qantas to restructure its business to improve its ability to survive and ultimately recover,“ Qantas said in a brief statement (https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-statement-on-high-court-decision/). “As we have said from the beginning, we deeply regret the personal impact the outsourcing decision had on all those affected and we sincerely apologise for that.”

“When you decide to fight Qantas, you know you have to throw everything at it … A real David and Goliath struggle, but it shows what workers can achieve when they pull together and join together and stand up for what is right through the union,” ACTU boss Sally McManus said.

Qantas faces three further court challenges: record penalties of $600 million sought by the ACCC for selling alleged cancelled flights, a criminal prosecution from the NSW safety regulator for standing down a health and safety representative during the pandemic, and a class action from angry customers who say they were misled and denied refunds.

Crikey has learned from staff based at Sydney Airport that former CEO Alan Joyce boarded an Emirates flight to Dublin the day he departed the company, accompanied by a security detail so he did not “have to interact with other passengers or onlookers
Shows you what a brave little coward AJ really is( not that we werent aware of it before).
Its time now for him & his little band of followers to be put through hell & face reality.
They have lived in a world where everyone else was wrong except them & now they might just realise where all their bullying has landed them.
Well done to the TWU for standing up to them & not folding to these self righteous entitled arrogant bullies of this world.

[ozbiggles]

Lucky no one knew what was coming when he sold all those shares….won’t it be ironic if in the end that is the undoing.

[blubak]

Qantas illegally fired 1,700 workers during pandemic - top court - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66793496)
I hope the press in dublin are reporting this also, would be a nice morning read for the little grub who thinks he has escaped the fall out.

[PoppaJo]

You think the board or executive team care? They achieved the mission.

This company has many similarities with the Victorian government. Political/Business interests first, public interest second.

[Hollywood1]

So what happens now? Will those 1700 workers all get their jobs back? If not, then I think QF still wins, if all that happens is a fine and an apology.

[BuzzBox]

So what happens now? Will those 1700 workers all get their jobs back? If not, then I think QF still wins, if all that happens is a fine and an apology.

The Federal Court has already ruled that it would be "impractical" for the workers to be reinstated to their previous positions. The TWU is seeking a hefty fine and compensation, but at the end of the day Qantas still got what it wanted.

[neville_nobody]

Qantas have “won” the war even if they lost the battle.

[ampclamp]

If I recall correctly, the federal court basically said its too complex (or words to that effect) to force reinstatement when Qantas lost initially.

So, presumably that will stand, but one would think now that they have run out of appeals, compensation and fines would be imposed.

If so it must be substantial as a deterrent and not just allow them to have a long term win and shrug it off as "a cost of doing business."

The cost of lost wages for 1700 staff and compensation for lost future earnings would be substantial if was to be applied. Let alone any fines.

[admikar]

Here, all those workers would also get all missed salaries/bonuses.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Qantas have “won” the war even if they lost the battle.

at what cost?

”Penny wise, pound foolish”. Not even penny wise in my experience.

[Deano969]

3 years lost wages @ $100k give or take would be around $500mil + the same again for a fine or a cool billion would seem fair

[pppdrive]

I'm not a Union fan by any standards but I must say they've done well for the sacked workers, all credit to them. Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again. What do you think 100 million, 500 million and how about adding that the current Board and Executives are all given their marching orders (back-dated for Joyce so he doesn't get away with it) and not allowed to become Board Members or hold Executive positions within Australia ever again. Might make them think about what they did. A bit harsh do I hear, well just how harsh was it on all the workers who suddenly didn't have a job because Joyce and others wanted to save money to pay themselves more. Paul

[aussieflyboy]

I’d think everyone would like to see the Coward St puppy patters suffer with reduced bonuses ect. but the fact is any fine and or backpay will come out of any bonuses they would have paid you.

No more staff travel bonuses/recovery/‘insert wanky name’ bonus for quite some time.

[Chronic Snoozer]

I'm not a Union fan by any standards but I must say they've done well for the sacked workers, all credit to them. Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again. What do you think 100 million, 500 million and how about adding that the current Board and Executives are all given their marching orders (back-dated for Joyce so he doesn't get away with it) and not allowed to become Board Members or hold Executive positions within Australia ever again. Might make them think about what they did. A bit harsh do I hear, well just how harsh was it on all the workers who suddenly didn't have a job because Joyce and others wanted to save money to pay themselves more. Paul

They should only be allowed to book flights using points for the rest of their lives.

[Lapon]

IIRC it was mentioned somewhere in the media that the maximum fine is only $100m which in the scheme of things is not much.
Hopefully the compensation will do the heavy hitting.

How long can Dick Goyder seriously hang on for?

[swingswong]

I'm not a Union fan by any standards…

If not for unions this kind of thing would be happening more often. Who else is going to push back?

I am a big fan of unions. This is an example
of why.

[Oriana]

I'm not a Union fan by any standards

Until you need one, that is.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

I'm not a Union fan by any standards but I must say they've done well for the sacked workers, all credit to them. Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again. What do you think 100 million, 500 million and how about adding that the current Board and Executives are all given their marching orders (back-dated for Joyce so he doesn't get away with it) and not allowed to become Board Members or hold Executive positions within Australia ever again. Might make them think about what they did. A bit harsh do I hear, well just how harsh was it on all the workers who suddenly didn't have a job because Joyce and others wanted to save money to pay themselves more. Paul

Don’t forget, unions exist because of this kind of arrogance and lack of basic decency; employers caused unionism. Employers have exploited their workers as far back as the Industrial Revolution and beyond. It was the united front from the staff that allowed any form of push back.

And no, your suggestion is not harsh, if anything it’s too soft. Industrial Revolution conditions is what CEOs want, I’d suggest Industrial Revolution punishments are what they deserve.

[Makiko]

Wonder if the Judges will get their Chairman's Club memberships revoked ?

Is QF still banning AFR ? That was very weird conduct by AJ - "You do not have the right to critisize me"

Good win for ground handlers , but they won't get their next 5/10 years wages paid , al al "loss of future earnings" that is a element of damages for injured workers

Think damages will be between $50K & $100K , better than a kick in the arse

The guys should try to press for some damages & reinstatement in old job or new role . Nothing stopping them from approaching QF directly off their own bat (loose the lawyers & unions) - you might luck out

[amberale]

The win is one for all unionised workers.
It should help to stop the degradation of workers rights that the AJ and his lickspittles have contributed to over the last ten years or so.

You can't just sack everyone and employ s-abs rather than engage in realistic wage negotiations.

[blubak]

Wonder if the Judges will get their Chairman's Club memberships revoked ?

Is QF still banning AFR ? That was very weird conduct by AJ - "You do not have the right to critisize me"

Good win for ground handlers , but they won't get their next 5/10 years wages paid , al al "loss of future earnings" that is a element of damages for injured workers

Think damages will be between $50K & $100K , better than a kick in the arse

The guys should try to press for some damages & reinstatement in old job or new role . Nothing stopping them from approaching QF directly off their own bat (loose the lawyers & unions) - you might luck out
I read somewhere today that the AFR is again available on board & i guess in the lounges.
Instead of trying to blame everybody else for their ongoing dismal performance they need to work with what little respect is left in the workforce & the customer base.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Wonder if the Judges will get their Chairman's Club memberships revoked ?
Bit of a strange one there. If the decision had come down in favor of QF, then the howl would have been that the Justices had been "bought". It's come down the other way, so will only be seen as extremely churlish to now banish the Justices.
​​​​​​​If I were the Justices, I'd be sniffing my CL drinks very carefully for the smell of uric acid from now on.

[MJA Chaser]

Qantas won't punt High Court judges from the CL.
What should happen is that the Parliament should legislate to ban any Commonwealth official, judge, member of Parliament, member of the ADF etc from accepting the largesse. And pigs might fly...

And CASA employees....
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-13/public-servants-regulators-qantas-chairmans-lounge/102845600

[601]

A few penalties is just a drop in the ocean compared to what they will save in the coming years and decades
Have you factored in the delays caused because there may be not enough ground staff available for every flight and the lost baggage, the shocking meals and the staff and the public knowing that 1700 Qantas staff were illegally sacked.

[KRviator]

Now that Qantas has been proven to have illegally sacked all those workers, how about they are forced to pay every single worker their back pay from the day they were illegally sacked up until the day when each worker receives all of their due back pay. Then look at how much to fine Qantas. I'd suggest an amount to make sure they never pull another trick like that again.Even if they do pay it all back and more, they're still ahead - and that's the problem! So long as they can see year-on-year savings in the 10's or 100's of millions, there's absolute no disincentive for another company - or Quaint-asre even - to pull a similar stunt.

Hence my previous comment, any penalty should at least be comparable to the supposed "savings" incurred, and be an ongoing, annual, thing, in order to ensure there's absolutely zero financial incentive for it to happen illegally."Even if the compensation bill goes over $100 million, on the evidence before the court, Qantas have saved $180 million in the first year by the outsourcing, and continue to have year-on-year savings of $100 million per year," he said. "Taking in all of the costs, and some of the penalties the court might order, it's likely Qantas will still be well ahead. "It's not really a disincentive for them to continue to outsource, or for another employer to do the same thing."
Source (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-14/qantas-workers-high-court-illegally-sacked-twu-compensation-bill/102848854)

[tail wheel]

And the taxpayer because it’s tax deductible as are the costs.

Deduct from what taxes?

According to the media and posts elsewhere in this forum, whilst Qantas has been the recipient of over $2 billion in Australian tax payer funded corporate welfare, Qantas has not paid Company tax during the Joyce Years (2008 to date) and may have accumulated tax deductible losses of up to $3 billion.

[neville_nobody]

Even if they do pay it all back and more, they're still ahead - and that's the problem! So long as they can see year-on-year savings in the 10's or 100's of millions, there's absolute no disincentive for another company - or Quaint-asre even - to pull a similar stunt.


Yes this is the problem and the point is made in today’s AFR. QF are ahead 100mil a year by illegally sacking their staff. The only losers here are the staff who were fired. QF even saved money by continually taking their case back through Court as well.

[Lead Balloon]

Depends on how you measure and value things. The raw comparisons of just employee wages v outsourced provider contract costs say Qantas is ahead $100M per year. But where do the costs of damage done by incompetent ground staff, the lost goodwill and custom due to baggage ending up in the wrong places etc factor in the calculation? Plus the costs of Federal Court hearing + Full Court of the Federal Court hearing + Special Leave Application to the High Court + High Court hearing for Qantas and the respondents = many, many millions. Plus the yet-to-be determined compensation - another trip to the Federal Court...

[neville_nobody]

The rub is none of that influences anyone’s bonus. QF could pay fines forever but no one in management will be punished financially for it. However 100 mill a year in staff savings is going to help their pay packets regardless of Court costs. I would also hazard a guess that no one worries about lost bags or hangar rash. As long as there isn’t a prang it’s all good.

That is why airlines do a lot of stupid things financially too, it’s because it is all about triggering bonuses not actually running an airline. You can’t tell me that having a airline with 7 AOCs and the bureaucratic infrastructure that comes with that is the best way to operate.

[Bend alot]

Fines & Compensation.

Compensation = Every unlawful dismissed worker gets maximum redundancy payment regardless of years of service. Worker + immediate family (or + 1 for singles) Id 90% for next 10 years confirmed seats and entry to Chairman’s Lounge for life.

Fines/Punishment + Joyce & Board all get Directors ID’s revoked for life and flight bans with Qantas & Jetstar for life. As they are not Fit & Proper persons due to proven illegal activity? (a reason it was implemented, was to stamp out illegal activity - the sackings was found to be illegal)

Lost/Late/Damaged baggage compensation to be increased by 300% and lost is considered to be 5 hrs after your flight lands.

[dragon man]

If you want to choke have a read of that.

https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qantas/pdfs/about-us/corporate-governance/qantas-business-practices-document.pdf

[Chronic Snoozer]

If you want to choke have a read of that.

https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qantas/pdfs/about-us/corporate-governance/qantas-business-practices-document.pdf

The non-negotiable business principles are particularly... poignant. It looks like QANTAS management were doing a George Costanza - the opposite.

[V-Jet]

In that missive (I’ll be very happy when I don’t have to look at that stomach churning face again) if you substitute the word ‘We’ with ‘You’ it makes a lot more sense.

[pppdrive]

to Swingsong & Oriana how nice of you to copy just one small part of my orig post making it look like I was Union bashing. If you had even bothered to read the rest you'd see that I was complimenting them on a job well done on behalf of the sacked workers. You guys are truly why this site has gone downhill, trying to disguise the true sense of my post and attempting to make me out as a Union basher doesn't reflect well on either of you. I really don't care what you think of my views on Unions but the very least you should have done is to include the part where I acknowledged that the Union did a great job on behalf of the sacked members. If complementing them makes me a Union Basher, I hope I never have to meet you in your aviation employment.

[Mr Mossberg]

Depends on how you measure and value things. The raw comparisons of just employee wages v outsourced provider contract costs say Qantas is ahead $100M per year. But where do the costs of damage done by incompetent ground staff, the lost goodwill and custom due to baggage ending up in the wrong places etc factor in the calculation? Plus the costs of Federal Court hearing + Full Court of the Federal Court hearing + Special Leave Application to the High Court + High Court hearing for Qantas and the respondents = many, many millions. Plus the yet-to-be determined compensation - another trip to the Federal Court...

Plus the TWU's costs. It's the only time I've thought legal costs aren't thievery.

[havick]

If you want to choke have a read of that.

https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qantas/pdfs/about-us/corporate-governance/qantas-business-practices-document.pdf

corporate eye wash at its best.

[blubak]

If you want to choke have a read of that.

https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qantas/pdfs/about-us/corporate-governance/qantas-business-practices-document.pdf
I notice the word 'respect' is mentioned on the first couple of pages, was obviously a typo!
Could also title the document along the lines of
The do as i say document but doesnt apply to me & my management team.

[dragon man]

I love this, just sums the place up.AnalysisQantas court loss not helped by exec’s ‘troublesome’ evidenceThe High Court upholding the illegality of Qantas’ sacking 1700 staff may not have gone the airline’s way but that’s because it failed to challenge the key part of the original decision. https://archive.md/T1pM1/4c45ed2a6463f264b7a4869bf61cbfb421bc1445.pngDavid Marin-Guzman (https://archive.md/o/T1pM1/https://www.afr.com/by/david-marin-guzman-gr047a)Workplace correspondentSep 13, 2023 – 4.44pm
Save

ShareThe High Court’s decision to uphold the illegality of Qantas’ sacking (https://archive.md/o/T1pM1/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/twu-calls-for-goyder-s-head-after-high-court-rules-against-qantas-20230913-p5e483) of 1700 ground-handling staff may not have gone the airline’s way, but it’s unlikely to be a huge obstacle to business outsourcing the jobs of unionised workforces.
That’s because Qantas did not actually attack the central part of the judgment that held it sacked workers to stop them exercising their right of industrial action in upcoming union negotiations. https://archive.md/T1pM1/c8eca6521b7400a64be2238fc9f83ace1dc4c055.webp Former Qantas baggage handlers celebrate their High Court win with Labor senator Tony Sheldon and union bosses Michael Kaine and Sally McManus. Alex Ellinghausen Instead, the airline targeted the specific definition of protected workplace rights under the Fair Work Act, arguing such protections did not apply to “future” rights.
If Qantas’ interpretation had succeeded, it could have changed decades of workplace law, narrowing what kind of protections workers can rely on and opening up potential employer gaming of the system.
As High Court justices Michelle Gordon and James Edelman remarked, their position would expose a “considerable gap in the protection afforded” by adverse action law.
Employers would have been able to sack employees to stop them taking annual leave if the worker was in a leave deficit and so had no accruing benefit at the time.
Union members could be retrenched to stop a potential strike, provided they had not yet made an application for a protected action ballot.
But there was little in the act or its predecessor legislation to support such an interpretation.
The judges assured business there was nothing in their reasons to suggest employers can’t consider enterprise bargaining in making decisions about the future – they just could not use it as a reason for adverse action.
High Court Justice Simon Steward even highlighted that Qantas’ original loss on this point - which it did not appeal - was “on the narrowest of grounds”.
In 2021, Qantas told Federal Court Justice Michael Lee the company’s decision to outsource its expensive ground operations was for commercial reasons after “bleeding cash” throughout the pandemic.
But under adverse action laws, employers face a reverse onus. They must provide evidence to rebut the assumption that their reasons did not also include that workers would have exercised their workplace rights.
When Qantas’ senior executives took to the stand, however, their evidence was less than impressive. https://archive.md/T1pM1/310da029695870612e6d242c2d2b39938e6bed5a.webp Former Qantas COO Paul Jones was a key witness in the Federal Court case. Dion Georgopoulos The most damning testimony came from Paul Jones, the one-time Qantas chief operating officer who moved to Virgin in late 2020.
Jones was a key witness (https://archive.md/o/T1pM1/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/fate-of-qantas-outsourcing-may-rest-with-virgin-s-jones-20210412-p57ieo). At the time of the outsourcing decision, he was the executive manager of freight and airports and had endorsed the outsourcing move to Qantas domestic chief executive Andrew David.
Justice Lee found Jones’ evidence was “particularly troublesome”, concluding he was “feigning a lack of recollection” and “willing to fashion his evidence to suit what he perceived to be the forensic advantage of his erstwhile employer”.
In particular, during senior management discussions about the outsourcing, Jones had made handwritten notes that read “labour [sic] Gov lock in benefits + open EBA’s 2020 DEC?”
When asked about “open EBA’s 2020 DEC”, an apparent reference to ground-handling agreements expiring at end of the year and so opening up the prospect of strikes, Jones said it was “very relevant” to the airline’s “operational risk” in 2021.
He later denied he believed the risk was workers taking industrial action.
Questioned what he meant by “labour Gov” he repeatedly said he could not recall before suggesting, bizarrely, it might have been a reference to state Labor.
Asked if he had been concerned a future Labor government would bring in laws that would effectively apply site rates – or “same job, same pay” – for labour hire and outsourced staff, and so reduce the cost benefits from outsourcing, he said “so I was aware of that as a possibility”. Later he denied he had been aware at the time.
It wouldn’t be surprising that was what he meant because that’s exactly what happened.
As Transport Workers’ Union national secretary Michael Kaine said on Wednesday, Labor’s Closing Loopholes Bill before the parliament is “designed to close the loophole that Alan Joyce and his management team have opened over a period of 15 years”.
By ensuring labour hire is paid at least the same as the direct workforce, the laws eliminate the incentive for companies to outsource workers “just for a cheaper buck”.
The High Court win is a significant win for the union movement. The future hearings to determine compensation are likely to represent the largest compensation order in the history of adverse action laws.
But its broader application will turn on the specific evidence. The real game is Labor’s labour hire laws, still before parliament.

[finestkind]

If not for unions this kind of thing would be happening more often. Who else is going to push back?

I am a big fan of unions. This is an example
of why.
Worked well for Cathay and Ansett.

[dragon man]

Opinion https://archive.md/i0UIk/538bb67ce2e278a85f8ed0c3421cf9b993318c87.pngQantas hits High Court brick wallThe unanimous ruling against the airline is another hit to its reputation, and it can no longer rely on any protection from the traditional cushion of national goodwill towards the flying kangaroo.
Jennifer Hewett (https://archive.md/o/i0UIk/https://www.afr.com/by/jennifer-hewett-j7gc3)ColumnistSep 13, 2023 – 6.26pm
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An ebullient Josh Bornstein, lawyer for the Transport Workers Union, says the case against Qantas isn’t over. But it’s not just the arguments to come over money – both for individual workers and as further corporal punishment to the airline’s bottom line over its illegal behaviour.
The unanimous High Court judgment (https://archive.md/o/i0UIk/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/twu-calls-for-goyder-s-head-after-high-court-rules-against-qantas-20230913-p5e483) will cost Qantas even more dearly by further damaging its reputation at the worst possible time. https://archive.md/i0UIk/3011be18b19e5aab249184def6d113b61c2753c5.webp Workplace lawyer Josh Bornstein argues Qantas should negotiate an agreed position on compensation. Simon Schluter CEO Vanessa Hudson has inherited a rolling public relations disaster from the now vanished Alan Joyce, intensifying the pressure on the Qantas board (https://archive.md/o/i0UIk/https://www.afr.com/chanticleer/qantas-high-court-hiding-turns-heat-up-on-goyder-20230913-p5e4as) to justify how it allowed this to develop such momentum.
Qantas’ statement on the court’s decision reiterated that its August 2020 decision to outsource the jobs of 1683 baggage handlers and other ground staff was made when borders were closed, lockdowns in place and no COVID-19 vaccine existed.
“The likelihood of a years-long crisis led Qantas to restructure its business to improve its ability to survive and ultimately recover,” it noted. This has certainly worked effectively in saving Qantas over $100 million a year, contributing to its record profit announcement last month of $2.47 billion. But while the grim fears of the pandemic era have been vanquished, the very robustness of Qantas’ financial recovery seems more like a recurring political nightmare. And the likely price of its aggressive cost-cutting behaviour is mounting rapidly into the many hundreds of millions of dollars.
The High Court did note Qantas had “sound commercial reasons” for its outsourcing decision. Unfortunately for the airline, the High Court still agreed with two previous Federal Court rulings that Qantas also had an illegal reason. It found Qantas was attempting to prevent the workforce’s ability to exercise its right to take future industrial action ahead of enterprising bargaining.
In careful wording, Qantas makes no apology for its decision at the time – merely for its impact on individuals.
“As we have said from the beginning, we deeply regret the personal impact the outsourcing decision had on all those affected and we sincerely apologise for that,” its statement said.
This will never satisfy the union movement – understandably celebrating the High Court’s rejection of Qantas’ appeal as a great victory. It will also help the Labor government sell the need to restrict the use of labour hire by companies as part of its industrial relations package currently stalled in the Senate.
The ad campaign from the business community warning against the terrible impact of “same job, same pay” laws will now face an even tougher audience.
The airline’s latest legal humiliation instantly becomes Exhibit A in the court of public opinion, giving union leaders another chance to berate greedy, unfair corporate behaviour against individuals. ACTU secretary Sally McManus promptly called it a “David and Goliath struggle”.
But along with the considerable amounts of money owed them, the apparent legal inability of the sacked workers to also get their jobs back compounds the image of Qantas as a terrible employer.Not too lateBornstein argues the airline should now sit down and negotiate an agreed position on compensation, saying it’s not too late despite the airline’s determination to keep fighting over the last three years. A deal would avoid a compensation case in the Federal Court turning into another exercise in damaging stories of individual hardship with Qantas under a new CEO still cast in the role of the Big Meanie. But the union may demand more money than Qantas is willing to pay.
Yet, it can no longer rely on any protection from the traditional cushion of national goodwill towards the flying kangaroo.
Too many accumulated experiences of bad service, high prices, flight cancellations and lost luggage have ripped all that away. The public’s anger became even more inflamed when the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission announced last month it would take Qantas to the Federal Court for allegedly selling flights that were already cancelled.
As the Labor government has recently discovered after its blocking of more flights from Qatar Airways became known, it’s no longer a popular move to be accused of doing Qantas any favours. This issue continues to simmer despite Anthony Albanese’s best efforts to insist there’s “nothing to see here”. The prime minister will be keen to keep his distance from now on.
It also means the Qantas annual general meeting on November 3 risks turning into another debacle on public show just when it’s desperate to escape the media cycle.
Major shareholders may have been as delighted with the profit announcement as Alan Joyce and Vanessa Hudson obviously were – all blind to the problem of reputation. The share price has fallen about 14 per cent since, despite all those high fares leveraging the continued high demand for travel.
Nor is it only unions demanding Joyce’s “obscene” bonuses be rescinded. Millions of Qantas customers can also aggrievedly repeat the figure of $24 million as Joyce’s expected payout. Can the board really ignore community sentiment on this issue too?
Richard Goyder will dismiss union clamour for his resignation as chairman, citing his experience in turning around public antagonism towards Coles when he was CEO of Wesfarmers. He will consider it his duty to stay. But despite continuing to strongly defend the departed CEO’s leadership to the very end, Goyder conceded Joyce’s exit would coincide with a focus on humility and on rebuilding public trust.
Hudson must also promote a change of tone and personal style at the top, including making a virtue of being seen to listen to complaints from airline employees. But her previous role as Joyce’s CFO and his preferred successor suddenly no longer creates the halo effect it once did.
Instead, she needs to strap herself in for a very turbulent end of year flight.

[Makiko]

It is a train wreck


& you get the sense there is much more to come

I guess Justice Lee has had his CL membership pulled

& news papers pretty thin on the ground in the QF lounge at the moment , maybe they allow the Botswana Times

& I guess all aussie based news is now pulled from IFE.

At least the QF thought control police have made some decent overtime cashola this week

The word is the Darwin bookies are taking money on whether Vanessa & Olivia will be there this time next week

[Oriana]

to Swingsong & Oriana how nice of you to copy just one small part of my orig post making it look like I was Union bashing. If you had even bothered to read the rest you'd see that I was complimenting them on a job well done on behalf of the sacked workers. You guys are truly why this site has gone downhill, trying to disguise the true sense of my post and attempting to make me out as a Union basher doesn't reflect well on either of you. I really don't care what you think of my views on Unions but the very least you should have done is to include the part where I acknowledged that the Union did a great job on behalf of the sacked members. If complementing them makes me a Union Basher, I hope I never have to meet you in your aviation employment.
No offense intended, it was meant as a generalised 'you' comment. My apologies.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

If you want to choke have a read of that.

https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qantas/pdfs/about-us/corporate-governance/qantas-business-practices-document.pdf
Strange how Qantas and Jetstar have their values differentiated. I would have thought they'd be the same if you are using group motherhood statements. Qantas' values aren't being "safe and responsible" or "genuinely caring"? Jetstar's aren't being "together" and "experienced"? It is actually ironic that a Qantas value is "together" as long as you are not Jetstar. No wonder the company went down the toilet.

[HongKongflu]

Are we going to amend the bribary & corruption course "do as we say, not as we do".? then they are covered.

[Makiko]

This guy puts it very well

"Geoffrey Watson SC, a former counsel assisting the Independent Commission Against Corruption and a director of the Centre for Public Integrity, said politicians and policymakers should turn memberships down.
There are certain positions in life where you cannot take Chairman’s Club membership,” said Watson.
He said those involved in public roles could benefit from sitting with the people they represent.
You’re taking public money for the job and you are supposed to represent the public. Why not sit with them while you’re waiting for a plane?”

Watson said Chairman’s Lounge membership also posed a potential problem if officials or their families receive preferential flight upgrades "

I wonder if the Qantas executives who might have obtained a very significant direct personal financial benefit from this illegal termination , will be keeping their bonus cashola

Perhaps they might donate 1% to Smith Family & give us yet more advice on how to think about the issues of the day . Truly Epic

[dragon man]

‘Not many airlines do such a dumb thing’: how outsourcing took Qantas from soaring to soreThe flying kangaroo's outsourcing frenzy has resulted in subpar maintenance, 'putrid' cabin conditions and poor payment for crew members.

MICHAEL SAINSBURY (https://www.crikey.com.au/author/michael-sainsbury/)

SEP 15, 2023

Give this article
https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/IpCDqBce-11qdS37BE-6-I6KshVu-KxMS1aT93WHzcAjfkpspsjSIlg9948F-Zkparaka2LLsxcJbFfX86zYyuh3eiHeemmKqt_jZbPqpFIB1grqtbSoq_l7s Q8brGOe1e6URsuLaEQrPe6Ruyz3=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/20230529001804903754-original.jpg?w=740OUTBOUND QANTAS CEO ALAN JOYCE (RIGHT) AND JETSTAR CEO STEPHANIE TULLY (SECOND FROM LEFT) IN FRONT OF QANTAS AND JETSTAR PLANES (IMAGE: AAP/DEAN LEWINS)Over the past decade, Qantas has accelerated outsourcing efforts that have squeezed out its spirit. During COVID it sacked more than 9,000 staff — at least 1,700 of them illegally (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/13/qantas-high-court-appeal-pilots-engineers/) — sending the jobs to mainly foreign companies and ports.

In the process of its outsourcing frenzy, Qantas sent thousands of Australian jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars to overseas companies, many based in tax havens — such as Zurich, Abu Dhabi and Singapore — some of which have appalling human rights records, such as the United Arab Emirates (UAE), that breach (https://michaelwest.com.au/the-qantas-code-of-conduct-and-ethics-yes-its-real/) Qantas’ code of ethics and its supplier code of conduct (https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qantas/pdfs/about-us/departments/procurement/supplier-code-of-conduct.pdf).

As Amnesty International has said of the UAE:
The kafala (sponsorship) system tied migrant workers’ visas to their employers, preventing them from changing or leaving employers without permission. Those who left their employers without permission faced punishment for “absconding”, including fines, arrest, detention, and deportation, all without any due process guarantees. Many low-paid migrant workers were acutely vulnerable to forced labor.
The UAE also criminalises same-sex sexual activity. The gender expression of trans people is also criminalised. So much for Qantas wrapping itself in the rainbow flag.
The outsourcing process has denied the Australian government significant company income tax and sales tax revenues, even as Qantas garnered $2.7 billion (https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/08/25/qantas-bloated-profit-underpaid-staff-high-fares/) in COVID-era corporate welfare, and gained protection from the government as it blocked Qatar and Turkish Airlines from providing international competition — all the while bleating about Australian jobs.

“These are jobs here in Australia, they’re Australian jobs,” Alan Joyce said (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/qantas-ceo-accused-of-throwing-workers-to-the-kerb/news-story/4889e15c3f9fef74595f3c8f754291ad).

Well, some of them are, but certainly not the jobs they used to be, and not all are in Australia.
EngineeringIn engineering, the trend has only been one way — offshore to a wide range of destinations from Dresden to Manila, Abu Dhabi to Singapore, Los Angeles to Hong Kong. In doing so, Qantas has sent jobs and income tax receipts offshore in return for work that is too often subpar, engineers say.

In the early days of the A380 offshore maintenance, Qantas used Lufthansa Technik in Frankfurt and aerospace manufacturer EFW in Dresden, which engineers said completed quality work. However, Qantas then started using Lufthansa Technik in Manila, which engineers described to Crikey as “woeful”, noting the incredible number of issues they had.

“They dropped an A380 engine while removing it, damaging it beyond repair,” one engineer said. Qantas long-haul engines are estimated to cost approximately $25-$40 million. Manilla staff also damaged a trailing edge flap beyond repair, another engineer said.

Any aircraft that came from Manila — A380s, A330s or Boeing 737s — reportedly had issues. Because of this, Qantas wouldn’t allow Manilla staff to remove engines, and instead relied on Sydney engineering to complete the tasks.

Part of the problem with Qantas and its outsourcing of maintenance is that it no longer sends Qantas engineers for oversight — a cost-cutting measure under Joyce, implemented by a manager he handpicked externally who cut maintenance to the bone.

“As of today we still don’t send a LAME [licenced aircraft maintenance engineer] who is qualified on the aircraft to oversee the maintenance,” one engineer told Crikey. “A dumb move; not many airlines do such a dumb thing.”
Cabin maintenanceEngineers described cabins on all Qantas aircraft as “putrid and in need of a lot of TLC”, and filthy compared to other operators. Passengers who travelled on Qantas this week who spoke to Crikey also attested to this.
“The current model is to let the cabin defects pile up on long-haul aircraft and then have them fixed in Singapore or Los Angeles,” pilots and engineers said. But this very often doesn’t happen and the list keeps on growing. Premium seats are often blocked out because of disrepair or inability to recline properly, one pilot told Crikey.

The national carrier previously had a department in Sydney with 100+ engineers who did nothing but cabin work. That department was closed down when COVID hit, company sources said.

“Supply chain issues are a minor part of it, the major part is we had a maintenance system in place to handle the cabins and we had people who were experienced in all the fiddly cabin work and now we don’t,” an engineer said.

Engineers said that many cabin defects are not airworthiness items, so they can be deferred indefinitely.

Pilots and engineers sheet the blame to “outsourcing the daily cleaning to the cheapest supplier”. There are a lot of new cleaners with Emirates working for companies like Cabin Services Australia, another Emirates subsidiary that sits in the cosy, protected Qantas/Emirates ecosystem.

“They are new immigrants, they are treated like crap and worked to the bone,” one insider said.
Flight attendantsOne less visible outsourcing program at Qantas has been the steady drift of flight attendant jobs offshore in the airline’s international arm Qantas International, as well as its low-cost carrier Jetstar. The group now runs multiple crews in offshore entities and local labour-hire companies.

In Australia, the game is also about the long-term cutting down of hourly rates for full-time employees, but also the casualisation of much of the cabin crew workforce.

Jetstar leads the way in terms of egregious pay. Jetstar International pays $26.39 per hour to permanent employees, but the company no longer hires into this group. These workers are denied promotional opportunities, as management favours offshore and crew from Team Jetstar, a newer entity on lower pay and more limited conditions.

As of March 2023, all new employees in Jetstar cabins are hired by contractor Maurice Alexander Management at $30.35 per hour. Despite these workers being classified as casual hires, the employment restrictions resemble permanent employment without the benefit of annual leave and sick leave, unions report.

But Jetstar’s offshore crew takes the biggest hit. The friendly and efficient Thai crew who staff the flights to Phuket — and are also sent elsewhere in Asia, including Japan — are paid $2 per hour, and Singapore crew are paid $6 per hour, unions said. At Qantas, mainline cabin crew are similarly sliced and diced, with UK and New Zealand-based crews being the worst paid.
Freight and ground staff service operatorsAt Sydney’s Qantas Freight facility, there are six different employers, each with different pay and conditions despite freight service operators doing the same jobs. In other states, Qantas uses a similar model, mixing businesses and labour hire to offer workers different pay and conditions for doing exactly the same jobs (https://www.australianunions.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/ANAPR_QANTAS_v7.pdf).

In 2012, Qantas acquired Australian Air Express (AAE), which helped run its freight facilities. The agreement in place at AAE said labour-hire workers must be paid the same rates s directly hired employees and a number of other clauses meant to protect all employees. Qantas, by moving the workers into the Qantas Freight facility, found a loophole in the labour-hire protections in the AAE agreement. This allowed it to introduce its lower-paying subsidiary Qantas Ground Services, and increasingly hire casual labour workers on wages comparable to the relevant award.

AAE has approximately 95% full-time staff on good pay and conditions, and Qantas Ground Services is 95% part-time with lower pay and conditions. But insecure workers who make up an increasing proportion of that workforce at the three labour-hire companies are only paid at basic award rates and conditions, usually as casuals, the Transport Workers’ Union has said.

The overall picture is both unedifying and depressing. Locally Qantas is moving more of its staff — even regular cabin crew — to employment by labour-hire companies on lower pay and conditions. And in sending skilled labour in its engineering group offshore, Qantas is single-handedly running down Australia’s skills base and capacity to service aircraft.

None of this would seem to fit in, at all, with the Albanese government’s stated policy goals. Over to you, Catherine King and Tony Burke

[megan]

Engineers described cabins on all Qantas aircraft as “putrid and in need of a lot of TLC”, and filthy compared to other operatorsNot a good look to pax when cabin furnishings are amiss, flew PanAm transpac when it was on its last legs, 747 cabin was held together with 100m/h tape. Do I recall a QF aircraft coming back from overseas maintenance with staples holding electrical bits together? Ah, yes, though seems some doubt as to whether it was overseas maintenance.

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/284426-poor-qantas-repairs-spark-grounding-call.html

[dragon man]

The Qantas CEO’s job just got even harder“Mind-boggling” is how one company director describes the extent to which the airline has “burnt” staff and customer loyalty.Sally Patten (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/by/sally-patten-j7gdj)BOSS editorSep 15, 2023 – 4.09pm
Save

ShareThis week Vanessa Hudson’s job got even harder.
In addition to upgrading an ageing Qantas Airways fleet, facing potential fines of as much as $250 million (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5e0v7) related to allegations it sold tickets on thousands of cancelled flights and a decision to scrap the expiry date on $570 million of flight credits (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/accc-sues-qantas-for-selling-tickets-on-cancelled-flights-20230831-p5e0v7), the new-broom chief executive might also have to pay out up to $200 million after the airline was found to have illegally sacked 1700 workers. https://archive.md/yZh0n/e502ab83bdf3aa4b7619c5067600596572d0b700.webp Vanessa Hudson’s prediction that last year’s bumper $2.5 billion pre-tax profit was “not as good as it gets” looks optimistic. And all this while Hudson, the carrier’s former chief financial officer, must restore the nation’s trust in the airline, which is likely to come with a sizeable bill.
Arguably, it makes Hudson’s prediction on August 23 (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/how-qantas-fell-to-earth-20230907-p5e2oo) that last year’s bumper $2.5 billion pre-tax profit was “not as good as it gets” look optimistic, at least in the short term.
“Qantas had a record profit, but at what cost?” says Vas Kolesnikoff, the head of Australia and New Zealand research at Institutional Shareholder Services, a shareholder advisory firm.
It is hard to overestimate the level of public fury at the country’s national carrier. Frequent flight cancellations, difficulty in using flight credits, interminably long call centre waiting times and a refusal to accept responsibility forinconveniencing customers (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/why-does-qantas-get-away-with-this-20230903-p5e1mj) are among the tribulations faced – and complained loudly about – by the travelling public.A nation outraged“Mind-boggling” is how one senior company director describes the revelation that between May and July last year Qantas sold seats on more than 8000 flights that had already been cancelled.
The director uses the same word to describe the extent to which the airline has “burnt” staff and customer loyalty. Even worse for Hudson, the outrage extends to Australians who don’t even fly, argues a leadership expert.
Given Qantas’ role as the national carrier, even though it is a publicly listed company, people have come to regard Qantas as a true-blue Aussie company that represents the country’s values of honesty, fair play and reliability, the leadership expert says.
Now, he says, Australians feel their values have been trashed.
Fixing the reputation issues will come at a cost. Reducing flight cancellations might mean flying planes with fewer passengers. Reducing call centre waiting times will mean hiring more staff. Lowering airfares will hit the top line directly. Compensating customers who have been inconvenienced and left out of pocket for flight changes will also cost.
These hits to the bottom line are on top of potential penalties facing Qantas for breaching the Fair Work Act for illegally sacking workers, and engaging in deceptive and misleading conduct, as is alleged by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
The question facing Hudson is: how broken is Qantas?Break from the pastCan she fix the problems incrementally, or will she need to announce a more drastic turnaround plan with a warning to shareholders that profits will suffer for a few years? This will mean distancing herself from former, and much unloved, CEO Alan Joyce, with whom Hudson has worked closely for many years and whose praises she sang in a video to staff earlier this month. https://archive.md/yZh0n/2d680ba05c814416fc5e3488d9d85226fe9d76e1.webp Qantas chief Alan Joyce departed the company prematurely. Bloomberg As one board adviser says: “Does she continue her alignment to the past and do incremental improvement, or call it out as a bigger problem that needs a bigger turnaround in relationships with all stakeholders? That probably means calling down the forecasts.”
Views are mixed.
Some believe Hudson’s appointment of Boston Consulting Group to help repair its fractious relationship with customers is a sign that she is willing, or indeed looking, to take the tough call.
“It surprises me that a customer organisation doesn’t know what the issues are,” Kolesnikoff says.
The sub-text is that Hudson will be able to use BCG as a cover. She can blame the need for a huge turnaround on the management consulting firm, saying she has little choice but to warn shareholders of financial pain to come as she invests to improve services.
The narrative could go something like: “This is a three-year turnaround. There will be three years of additional costs but we have to fix the company. Sorry, but you might not see great returns for a while.”
It would be a bold move. Even though pointing the finger at BCG would cushion the break Hudson would be making from her predecessor, it would still be tough.
“It’s a big call,” says one leadership expert.Selling shortThere are insiders who believe Hudson has the courage to do it. She certainly has the money to do so. Even though she is set to incur higher costs and has already lost out on revenues from unclaimed flight credits which were due to be booked in the current financial year, the company is clearly generating bucketloads of cash, which will soften the blow to investors.
At least one asset manager seems to think Qantas will take this route.
This week, The Australian Financial Review reported that Totus Capital, a long-short hedge fund that manages about $210 million of assets, has shorted Qantas shares (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/markets/equity-markets/totus-takes-profit-on-qantas-short-bet-says-it-has-a-sniff-of-amp-20230914-p5e4ol) on the expectation the company could face mounting costs as it upgrades its fleets, remediates customers, has less flexibility to cancel flights and is due to face stiffer competition.
Totus portfolio manager Ben McGarry drew similarities to AMP, which faced years of regulatory scrutiny, higher costs and brand damage after its decades of strong profit ended.
Others argue BCG’s appointment was merely an attempt by Hudson to get an outside opinion and comes with no ulterior motive.
The directors won’t want to distance themselves from the Joyce regime, given they oversaw it, and as a former CFO, Hudson also has to own the airline’s performance.
“I doubt she will do it,” says the leadership expert.
A shareholder adviser adds: “Getting an alternative point of view is a good move. It’s probably not an escape route.”
Regardless, time is not on Hudson’s side. Some believe she has six months to show she has identified and acknowledged the problems, established a strategy to fix them and produce some signs that services are improving.
“Within six months she needs to demonstrate she is trustworthy,” says a leadership expert.
Winning back the trust of customers is not Qantas’ only challenge. Well away from airports, in the glass towers of the country’s capital cities, there is disbelief over the governance of the company.
Senior company directors point to the failure to invest in the fleet over many years while conducting share buybacks, allowing Joyce to sell shares about a month before the company’s financial year-end (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/street-talk/alan-joyce-sells-17m-in-qantas-shares-20230606-p5defk) and granting him $10.8 million in shares (https://archive.md/o/yZh0n/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/qantas-board-under-pressure-on-bonuses-joyce-s-share-sale-20230901-p5e18f) under a pandemic-era retention scheme and for long-term bonuses from 2020, 2021 and 2022, which he had previously deferred.
The granting of the shares was made after the ACCC started its investigation into the cancellation of flights.
Given where the airline is now, one senior director reckons that “at a minimum there needs to be a significant remuneration penalty for Joyce.” Others say wholesale board renewal is required to break from the past.
“There is an expectation boards are accountable,” Kolesnikoff says. “There has to be accountability for what’s going on.”
Some take the view that means chairman Richard Goyder needs to announce his retirement. Others say he could be justified for hanging around while Hudson settles into her new role.
Given Qantas’ troubles, it might be a good time to appoint directors with airline experience to the table. Among the nine non-executive directors, only two – Antony Tyler and Doug Parker – have airline experience. Two – Maxine Brenner and Jacqueline Hey – have been there for more than a decade

[Lead Balloon]

As Joe Aston said:Sitting in Vanessa Hudson’s in-tray [is] the world’s largest, overflowing sick bag.

[ozbiggles]

As Joe Aston said:
A lot of it is her Vomit

[pppdrive]

Oriana I appreciate your reply, thanks. Paul

[C441]

Justice wont be served until the main actors in this drama are personally held to account.

Unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon and certainly not before some of those who were as equally impacted as the customers (the non-executive staff) have had to partially offset the damage through their own pay and conditions.

[dragon man]

Qantas chairman Goyder will have ‘nowhere to hide’ at inquiryAyesha de Kretser (https://archive.md/o/ldAob/https://www.afr.com/by/ayesha-de-kretser-p535y1)Senior reporterSep 17, 2023 – 7.42pm
Save

ShareThe Transport Workers Union says Qantas chairman Richard Goyder will have “nowhere to hide” at the upcoming Senate Inquiry into the national carrier, claiming the Qantas board has been in denial about the airline’s decision to sack workers being both illegal and damaging to safety, brand and customers.
The chairmen and chief executives of major airlines – including former Qantas boss Alan Joyce (https://archive.md/o/ldAob/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5e510) – have been called before the inquiry from September 26, but the committee is still negotiating the exact timing and format of their appearances. https://archive.md/ldAob/7433b35becb541be4e1d0dcacd190f19b9265652.webp Alan Joyce, Vanessa Hudson and Richard Goyder are all being called before the Senate. Rhett Wyman Qantas chief legal counsel Andrew Finch told the TWU that the board was satisfied the airline’s management, led at the time by Mr Joyce, had appropriately managed the risks when it outsourced nearly 1700 workers after the airline was grounded in 2020 following the outbreak of the pandemic.
The union says the board subsequently ignored three further attempts from the TWU to discuss its growing concerns about a sharp deterioration in safety standards – which it linked to the decline in Qantas’ public reputation.
“The board is in denial. It’s been in denial for years. We put them on notice right at the start of all this, we warned them abut the consequences of all this for workers and for the travelling public. We’ve got Goyder coming to the Senate Inquiry and the questions will be put to him,” TWU national secretary Michael Kaine said on Sunday.RELATED QUOTESQAN (https://archive.md/o/ldAob/https://www.afr.com/company/asx/qan)Qantas$5.610 0.36%1 year (https://archive.md/ldAob#QANYear)1 day (https://archive.md/ldAob#QANDay)Sep 22Mar 23Sep 234.9506.0507.150 Updated: Sep 17, 2023 – 9.32pm. Data is 20 mins delayed.
View QAN related articles (https://archive.md/o/ldAob/https://www.afr.com/company/asx/qan)“For the first time, there will be nowhere to hide.”
Following the High Court decision last Wednesday which found Qantas’ sacking of 1683 ground staff (https://archive.md/o/ldAob/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5e483) was illegal, Mr Kaine said he was still waiting for chief executive Vanessa Hudson to contact the TWU to discuss compensation for workers, as Qantas indicated it would do last week.
But Mr Kaine said the union is signing up more members across the three main labour hire firms to which ground staff jobs had been outsourced, Menzies, dnata and Swissport, suggesting Qantas would still need to engage with the TWU.
“I don’t think Qantas has an option but to change the way it looks at its customers, to change the way it looks at its workforce and to start treating its workforce as an investment not a cost,” he said.
As recently as February, the TWU wrote to Mr Goyder outlining serious safety concerns.
These included firearms being unloaded onto luggage carousels, dangerous goods loaded onto planes without documentation, cargo doors being left open, stairs being removed with passenger doors open, plane loads being unbalanced, staff working injured and vehicles colliding with refuelling hoses.
Correspondence between Qantas’ chief legal counsel Mr Finch and the TWU from October 2020 reveals the airline’s board was satisfied by the overall governance settings.
“Boards are responsible for ensuring appropriate governance for a company overall. In that respect, the Qantas board is satisfied that the group has robust systems and processes in place to identify, assess and appropriately manage potential risks, including the risks you have identified in your correspondence,” Mr Finch wrote. He declined requests for meetings on behalf of the board.
Mr Kaine said Qantas’ brand and reputation issues stemmed from the outsourcing decision, which caused widespread chaos at airports during the exit of the pandemic.
Qantas says the issues were not related to outsourcing and blamed the omicron COVID-19 wave for worker sickness that caused a raft of baggage handling issues and delays at airports.
Ms Hudson vowed to restore customer focus (https://archive.md/o/ldAob/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5e5b4) and will meet union groups on Monday to hear their concerns, but has not yet contacted the TWU after last week’s historic High Court defeat for the airline.
Federal Court Justice Michael Lee will commence the process of determining compensation for the 1683 sacked workers, as well as the size of the fine to be issued to Qantas on Wednesday.
The airline has already banked savings of $102 million a year annually since sacking the workers at the start of 2021, as well as $80 million of capital expenditure over five years. The maximum fine is $100 million, while worker compensation is not expected to exceed $100 million

[1A_Please]

The Australian is reporting that Qantas has been ordered into immediate mediation with TWU on this matter. Rather than Qantas internal counsel representing Qantas at the mediation, the judge has ordered that Vanessa Hudson attend along with TWU's Michael Kaine. Judge told TWU he wants mediated settlement rather than court ordered compensation and wants a result by the end of October.

[The The]

From the banked "savings" of $102m per year, you need to subtract the damage bill to aircraft and operations from, which is now into the hundreds of events, hits to aircraft from ground equipment over the past couple of years.

[KRviator]

From the banked "savings" of $102m per year, you need to subtract the damage bill to aircraft and operations from, which is now into the hundreds of events, hits to aircraft from ground equipment over the past couple of years.The contracts are probably written so that comes out of someone else's' budget, either insurance or Swissport...

[aussieflyboy]

I can confidently say I’ve wasted an extra 10,000+ Litres of fuel in the last 2 years simply by flying faster attempting to get the show back on schedule due to departure delays thanks to late loading of baggage/tugs not connected on time.

I imagine many other Pilots would be in the same boat.

[blubak]

The Australian is reporting that Qantas has been ordered into immediate mediation with TWU on this matter. Rather than Qantas internal counsel representing Qantas at the mediation, the judge has ordered that Vanessa Hudson attend along with TWU's Michael Kaine. Judge told TWU he wants mediated settlement rather than court ordered compensation and wants a result by the end of October.
Rightly so too, she should be 100% accountable for her actions & not pass the buck to someone under her.
The other 1 that should be there in my opinion is the ex kiwi farmer who of course continually said everyone else was wrong except him but conveniently for him he will depart very soon with his pockets lined with many many $$$$

[Stationair8]

Joe Aston has done want any good journalist should do, ignore the warm woke fluffy PR stuff pumped out by Qantas and dig a little deeper and find the real story.

The board must either be on drugs, retired early to the chairman's lounge or asleep at the wheel, with the amount of bad press that has been going on for a while now.

FFS our customers aren't match fit, would have to be one of those great quotes in business history.

Goyder is amazing, chairperson of QAN, WPL and AFL, his time management skills must be amazing along with attention to detail.

The other board members seem to be busy as well, lots of side gigs and cosy board positions.

Unfortunately the Roo is rooted, no doubt industry experts will put the blame on high wages paid to staff, inefficient work practices, unions, global warming etc!

But at least Qantas pushed the gay marriage agenda, wokism and the YES vote!

Thanks Alan, enjoy that well earned retirement.

Qantas board enjoy the AGM!