Neuron, the Future of ATC, it’s here now.

[JerryG]

Over the weekend of Saturday 7th/Sunday 8th October there is an event called HELLOFUTURELIVE taking place in Los Angeles, and live online. I am hosting a panel discussion with James Dunthorne and Niall Greenwood, the founders of Neuron, which is the future of ATC. The system is currently being rolled out in the UK as a series of trials whereby every flying machine, manned or unmanned, records and disseminates its flight path every second. It does this on the Hashgraph (a form of blockchain). I highly recommend attending in person or online.

Website and tickets: Welcome - HelloFutureLIVE (https://hellofuture.live/)

[hargreaves99]

whereby every flying machine, manned or unmanned, records and disseminates its flight path every second


i'm not sure all pilots want that!

​​​​​​​plenty still turn off their transponder to avoid over-zealous CAA prosecuting them for minor infringements

[chevvron]

The system is currently being rolled out in the UK as a series of trials whereby every flying machine, manned or unmanned, records and disseminates its flight path every second.

But not every flying machine in the UK has any type of EC, probably less than half I would guess and there is no proposal (as far as I know) to make them carry it.

[JerryG]

Watch this space, Watch this presentation. (or, better still, come along and address the founders). This is Web 3.0. Remember that day when somebody asked what you thought of the internet, and you responded that it probably wasn't for you 😂😂. Welcome to that moment all over again!

[JerryG]

Watch this space, mark my words, and then argue with me in five years from now! (More like two years actually)

[Dont Hang Up]

Watch this space, mark my words, and then argue with me in five years from now! (More like two years actually)The idea of a decentralised self-organising ATC is an interesting one. But it is not new – I remember some clever people talking about this over twenty years ago. It kind of went hand-in-hand with the concept of direct or free routing which was also a bit of a Holy Grail back then. The problems are formidable and not necessarily solved by waving the AI wand.

Of course, it is possible in the extreme case where all of the actors (aircraft) are known to one another and are all in communication with each other even before any separation action is required. There will be an optimum routing solution and AI may well be the way to solve it. However, ATC has a nasty habit of introducing variables at frequent and inconvenient times and any “solved in advance” solution based on more than a very small number of actors will go wrong and have to be re-solved dynamically.

For something like drones which can turn on a dime or even stop completely then a dynamic solution may indeed be possible. For large aircraft with high speed, constrained acceleration, deceleration and limited turn rate the problems become much more difficult. Indeed, it is almost impossible to prove that, in a complex environment with high traffic density, an aircraft cannot end up driving into a safe-separation “cul-de-sac” requiring TCAS or some human-intervention (if the human is even still in the loop!) to save the day.

It may be solvable but, except maybe in some very niche scenarios, not in five years.

[Tango and Cash]

Considering the wailing/gnashing of teeth/foot dragging on ADS-B transponder requirements, even after very compelling increases in situational awareness for pilots and controllers were demonstrated, I'm not holding my breath. And we're still sorting out the 5G/radar altimeter interference issue.

Curious what sort of onboard gadgetry and (presumably ground based) computing power will be required to keep track of all those second-by-second position updates. 100,000 commercial flights worldwide per day x 2 hour average stage length x 3600 seconds per hour = a really big number. Then add business aviation, helicopters, unmanned...

[Una Due Tfc]

We can't even get CPDLC & SATCOM to work reliably for goodness sake.

[hobbit1983]

Watch this space, mark my words, and then argue with me in five years from now! (More like two years actually)

Watch this space, Watch this presentation. (or, better still, come along and address the founders). This is Web 3.0. Remember that day when somebody asked what you thought of the internet, and you responded that it probably wasn't for you 😂😂. Welcome to that moment all over again!

Very bold words! Best of luck.

Over the weekend of Saturday 7th/Sunday 8th October there is an event called HELLOFUTURELIVE taking place in Los Angeles, and live online. I am hosting a panel discussion with James Dunthorne and Niall Greenwood, the founders of Neuron, which is the future of ATC. The system is currently being rolled out in the UK as a series of trials whereby every flying machine, manned or unmanned, records and disseminates its flight path every second. It does this on the Hashgraph (a form of blockchain). I highly recommend attending in person or online.



Could you post some more information about the trials please? I couldn't find any information about current trials, only ones from 2021.

[chevvron]

However, ATC has a nasty habit of introducing variables at frequent and inconvenient times and any “solved in advance” solution based on more than a very small number of actors will go wrong and have to be re-solved dynamically.

As in the recent events which took place at the UK's Swanwick site?