Birdsville Races 2023

[runway16]

Getting in early.

OK, how many aircraft attended?

What were the costs for the average fly in pilot?

Was it worth while flying in to the event?

Anything unusual happen?

[wheelyfunny]

BE20
PA31
C510
ATR
C41
BE20
SF340
BE58
PA31
L60
C208
TBM
GA8s
DA42s

Various singles

[runway16]

OK, I will try again.

How many aircraft flew in?

I am told that last year it was a small number. All the aircraft described in # 2 sound like your companies taking over the Race event


R

[Capt Fathom]

How many aircraft flew in?



I'd say all of them! :E

[Dick Smith]

If ever there is an example of the destruction of GA in Australia it's shown by the staggering reduction in the number of planes attending the Birdsville races.

In the good old days I think the number was over 180!

[KRviator]

How would it compare to something like the Old Station fly in? We went up there last year and there were 203 aircraft on the field - with over 500 campsites for ground-pounders too (proving it isn't just geared towards fliers). I certainly don't disagree with DS - but do wonder how much can be attributed to changes in the races themselves vs the declining GA climate?

[Dick Smith]

Very mysterious! Why would there be such a large drop off of aircraft attending the Birdsville races?

Is it a lack of perceived friendliness?

[Desert Flower]

Very mysterious! Why would there be such a large drop off of aircraft attending the Birdsville races?

Is it a lack of perceived friendliness?

I think the words "Greedy Shire" probably sums it up. No camping under the wings anymore etc, etc. I'm sure someone else will add to this.

DF

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Would requiring an ASIC, to land at an airport in a town with a population of around 100, be a factor ?

[morno]

If ever there is an example of the destruction of GA in Australia it's shown by the staggering reduction in the number of planes attending the Birdsville races.

In the good old days I think the number was over 180!

I’d have to largely disagree with you there Dick. Sure that’s probably a contributing factor, but how many people in the past have flown because it was the easiest way to get there?

I think a more accurate assumption is that the roads have hugely improved, the cars more reliable, and the demographic of race goers has changed dramatically. I know for a fact that numbers are not down, if anything they’re increasing.

[Dick Smith]

Morno. Do you work for the Minister or the Department?

There must be another explanation for why aircraft numbers are down.

Yes. Roads are better but that is hardly the reason for such a drop off by flyers!

It takes days to drive to Birdsville from a capital city and only hours by plane!

Are Oshkosh numbers down as much?

[giantkingsquid]

There was a thread that discussed this in great detail earlier this year. In short, council got greedy with insane landing fees and wouldn't allow camping under the wing, but would allow camping elsewhere for an exorbitant fee.

[Horatio Leafblower]

There was a thread that discussed this in great detail earlier this year. In short, council got greedy with insane landing fees and wouldn't allow camping under the wing, but would allow camping elsewhere for an exorbitant fee.

Jeez.

How many ratepayers are there in Diamantina Shire?
What are the security requirements placed on the shire by the Dept Homeland Security?
How much do you reckon that costs?

"Greedy Shire"?

[Desert Flower]

There was a thread that discussed this in great detail earlier this year. In short, council got greedy with insane landing fees and wouldn't allow camping under the wing, but would allow camping elsewhere for an exorbitant fee.

Like I said earlier, two words can sum it up - "Greedy Shire".

DF.

[Desert Flower]

Jeez.

How many ratepayers are there in Diamantina Shire?
What are the security requirements placed on the shire by the Dept Homeland Security?
How much do you reckon that costs?

"Greedy Shire"?

Was never necessary all those years ago.

DF.

[Ixixly]

Ok, so, after all that, what were the numbers?

[Whispering T-Jet]

FYI at Oshkosh this year a record of ~10,000 aircraft flew in (not a typo).

[morno]

Morno. Do you work for the Minister or the Department?

There must be another explanation for why aircraft numbers are down.

Yes. Roads are better but that is hardly the reason for such a drop off by flyers!

It takes days to drive to Birdsville from a capital city and only hours by plane!

Are Oshkosh numbers down as much?

I most certainly don’t. Your average Birdsville Races attendee these days probably doesn’t have a pilots license nor want one. People are happy to drive there a) because the roads are improved, and b) there are other events in the leadup to the races in surrounding towns that people would rather drive to.

You can’t compare Oshkosh to the Birdsville Races. One is a dedicated aviation event in a country with 250 million or so people, and the other is a horse race in an outback town. Yes the latter used to have a large aviation presence, but times change. The event has changed considerably.

What did you do to promote general aviation in your time at CASA Dick? How’s that user pays system working out?

[Dick Smith]

They were going to bring in user pays by GA for full position Flight Service.

We solved that problem by removing the full position requirement and providing good redundancy payments.

Same with RFFS at the secondary airports.

Over $500 m saved by GA since then without one life being lost.

It was the Henry Bosche report that introduced user pays - I wasn't involved in any way with that.

I still think the destruction of GA is one of the reasons for the drop off at Birdsville!

[morno]

I’m not disagreeing that the destruction of GA has contributed to lower numbers at Birdsville Races, but I think in the grand scheme of things, it’s more than likely only a small factor.

[Cedrik]

Without resorting to handpicked and sorted stats it's obvious GA is only a small percentage of what it used to be. In the bush you are lucky to see any sign aircraft of any sort apart from vapour trails. It's gone from every town airstrip having training and charter, most farmers having 182's and thriving maintenance shops to barren rural airstrips. RAA is the only hope but CASA is working to destroy that too.
With GA being a small percentage of what once was then it stands to reason any events will correspondingly be down the same percentage. Then you have event organisers thinking they will cash in compounding the non participation.
GA exists in spite of CASA not because of it.

[Mr Mossberg]

I count myself lucky to have flown into Birdsville for the races, camping under the wing, having way too many beers in a packed street outside the pub, actually going to the races, staying for about 30 mins then heading straight back to the pub.

From what I've read about it, its been destroyed for people flying in by the local council and the usual OHS bull**** as an excuse to rape people of their hard earned, not by the destruction of GA.

[runway16]

Cedrik,
I hear you loud and clear. I have to agree. CASA should feel proud that they have costed and regulated out of existence all those flying schools, charter businesses and maintenance business that we used to see at all most every country airports.
Now all we see are locked and deserted hangers and dusty runways.
R

[Dick Smith]

249 planes at Birdsville in September of 1999

[Alice Kiwican]

249 planes at Birdsville in September of 1999

I was there that year in a PA31. We had a great couple of days

[vne165]

Think I was too...saw a guy do the dance of the flaming R-soles on the roof of the pub. Went to Brophy's tent, endured a dust storm and slept under the wing of a Cherokee six...might have been '98 or '97 not sure. Too lazy to fish out the log book.

Hired an HD video camera and filmed the entire trip from Perth.
A hoot with three other mates, one of which got his licence the day before departure - only by taking a cake to the CASA crew at Jandakot.

[Global Aviator]

1994 I think! Foggy memory, little like my memory of which tent I was meant to be in 🤣.