Leaving BA for Jet2

[Basicsteve]

Hello everyone,

Long time lurker

I've been flying with BA (10 years) on the A350 for a while. While it's been okay, I've started feeling a bit disconnected due to the corporate atmosphere and just fed up with LH

I'm intrigued by Jet2. The thought of flying from Manchester or Brum sounds very appealing (I assume that’s where I would be based for the bus) with potentially being home much more.

The vibe at BA and the frequent A350 flights aren't sitting well with me anymore. I know of quite a few guys making the move but I’m putting feelers out …

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Moved to Jet2? How did it turn out? Any regrets or was it a positive change?

With my hours I assume a command would come round relatively quick so would be a very good pay rise so another thing to think about!

Your insights would mean a lot to me.

Cheers
Steve

[RARA9]

Hello everyone,

Long time lurker

I've been flying with BA (10 years) on the A350 for a while. While it's been okay, I've started feeling a bit disconnected due to the corporate atmosphere and just fed up with LH

I'm intrigued by Jet2. The thought of flying from Manchester or Brum sounds very appealing (I assume that’s where I would be based for the bus) with potentially being home much more.

The vibe at BA and the frequent A350 flights aren't sitting well with me anymore. I know of quite a few guys making the move but I’m putting feelers out …

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Moved to Jet2? How did it turn out? Any regrets or was it a positive change?

With my hours I assume a command would come round relatively quick so would be a very good pay rise so another thing to think about!

Your insights would mean a lot to me.

Cheers
Steve


Dont worry you certainly are not the only one doing this. I made the move a few months ago now but was on the 777. In BA slightly less time than you by the sounds of it.

In short I’m very happy with the move , the atmosphere couldn’t be more different. It’s weird being somewhere which is so positive….. but refreshing.
Pay is very good also they gave out a good bonus this year which I missed as I joined recently but fingers crossed for next year.
Regarding command I reckon I might get it within 2 years . Only negative really is it’s very ex RAF , everything seems to go through the base captains (Squadron Leaders) but if you keep
your head down and nose clean then you will have no issues.

If you have woken up to the real BA then you will not regret the move.

Any other questions feel free to DM

[Potatos_69]

If it gets you closer to home and at home more often it’s probably worth it, but if sick of the 350 and LH, why not bid for SH. If you’re quite senior you could have a much more relaxing roster that’s quite commutable.


J2 definitely an option however depending on your seniority could be a bit of a pay and pension cut etc, you’ll probably work a lot harder in the summer but have a rest during the winter.

[Basicsteve]

If it gets you closer to home and at home more often it’s probably worth it, but if sick of the 350 and LH, why not bid for SH. If you’re quite senior you could have a much more relaxing roster that’s quite commutable.


J2 definitely an option however depending on your seniority could be a bit of a pay and pension cut etc, you’ll probably work a lot harder in the summer but have a rest during the winter.

If I got captain in a few years at Jet2 it would be a v good pay rise for the next couple
of years . I believe basic is 135k with around 15k on top . So £150k
Senior FO is 95k basically after flying which is pretty good also
I just can’t stand the way BA operates especially after the last few years. I know it’s been tough for most airlines but it opened my eyes.
Most people I hear that have made the move are happy with it .

I think someone tried to send me a message but it won’t work yet as I’m new to pprune

[Potatos_69]

If I got captain in a few years at Jet2 it would be a v good pay rise for the next couple
of years . I believe basic is 135k with around 15k on top . So £150k
Senior FO is 95k basically after flying which is pretty good also
I just can’t stand the way BA operates especially after the last few years. I know it’s been tough for most airlines but it opened my eyes.
Most people I hear that have made the move are happy with it .

I think someone tried to send me a message but it won’t work yet as I’m new to pprune

Grass isn’t always greener, but it sounds like getting out before the toxicity for you gets worse is a smart idea.

It’s the problem BA has now with PP34. If you’re a bit older and won’t have full advantage of spending years at the top… J2 fast captain upgrade is a good place to be financially that’s for sure.

Having been in one of the worst companies to be in during covid I can safely say that BA and the rest of them were angels compared to what could have happened 🤣 but you are correct, we are just numbers to the company, so go to wherever you’ll be happier and be home more!

[Busdriver01]

BA and the rest of them were angels compared to what could have happened 🤣

There are at least 249 who would disagree with you, vehemently.

[MZB]

Is J2 really better than BA?

What about J2 v TUI?

[Basicsteve]

Is J2 really better than BA?

What about J2 v TUI?


Nothing is “better” it’s just what works for a certain person . I believe many have a rose tinted view of BA and think it’s the best thing . But reality is that’s it’s far from it ……

Jet 2 is good but it’s not perfect but sounds like it suits me

[olster]

My penny’s worth. I spent the last few years flying in J2. I was also a trainer and after retirement a sim instructor / examiner. I could not be more positive about J2, a great airline with great people and crews. There are ex military pilots but not overwhelmingly so and more importantly they were all very good guys and gals that I encountered. The company is down to earth and pragmatic in line with its oop North roots. The terms and conditions have increasingly improved to be at the higher end of the industry. I can’t compare J2 with BA although I have many friends in the latter. It is of course a personal decision but unlikely to go badly wrong in my very humble opinion.

[Boeing 7E7]

Is J2 really better than BA?

What about J2 v TUI?

New joiners in tui get a pretty poor deal. It’s a part time contract with reduced pay. Jet 2 offers a much better package with significantly better long term career prospects.

[MZB]

New joiners in tui get a pretty poor deal. It’s a part time contract with reduced pay. Jet 2 offers a much better package with significantly better long term career prospects.

People all seem to think TUI won’t be here long term?

[go-around flap 15]

I’ve recently made the move and some things that have stood out to me.

You are not (or not made to feel) as just an employee number on all interactions with the company, be it with crewing / HR / Base Managers etc.

It sounds ridiculously trivial to mention but even to the level when calling sick recently I was advised to rest up with a lemon & honey tea and given wishes to get well soon… it’s an indication of the type of people the company employs through all levels of the business.

Pilot base managers on your side and will genuinely work hard to help you out when life gets tricky. Recent non-direct family bereavement and was offered as much time as I needed to support rest of family.

Downroute with a tech issue and the company employed dispatcher will bend over backwards to help you out, and as a consequence the crew offer the same back to them. The idea that in my previous company the cabin crew would offer the dispatcher a coffee would’ve been laughable…

I’ve never seen a crewroom full of so many smiling faces, even at 5am. Time will tell but on early impressions it is absolutely a happy place to come to work.

[SpamCanDriver]

I’ve recently made the move and some things that have stood out to me.

You are not (or not made to feel) as just an employee number on all interactions with the company, be it with crewing / HR / Base Managers etc.

It sounds ridiculously trivial to mention but even to the level when calling sick recently I was advised to rest up with a lemon & honey tea and given wishes to get well soon… it’s an indication of the type of people the company employs through all levels of the business.

Pilot base managers on your side and will genuinely work hard to help you out when life gets tricky. Recent non-direct family bereavement and was offered as much time as I needed to support rest of family.

Downroute with a tech issue and the company employed dispatcher will bend over backwards to help you out, and as a consequence the crew offer the same back to them. The idea that in my previous company the cabin crew would offer the dispatcher a coffee would’ve been laughable…

I’ve never seen a crewroom full of so many smiling faces, even at 5am. Time will tell but on early impressions it is absolutely a happy place to come to work.

Mirrors my experience perfectly.

Would also add that I'd heard the training/checking could be on the tough side.....
Granted I'm new, but my type rating and line training was first class.

I didn't come from BA, but rather the sandpit. The difference in how I'm treated in J2 is unsurprisingly night and day.

Obviously I'm still in the honeymoon period, but I'm very happy to have made the move back home after over a decade in the sandpit, even after the tax deductions 🫣

[santacruz]

I also made the move from sand pit long haul to J2. Early days but very very happy with the decision so far!! I would agree with the positive comments above.

[Potatos_69]

There are at least 249 who would disagree with you, vehemently.


There was 20% of my previous company let go plus everyone else was forced onto 17 days unpaid a month (on top of a 20% pay cut) [this generally resulted in pay checks that were lower than UK unemployment benefits]

Don’t get me wrong what happened to them, and what’s still happening should not have happened, was terrible form by the company. But even then it could have been far worse.

[TheFiddler]

There are at least 249 who would disagree with you, vehemently.

If you're talking about Covid, the actual number was 104.

[Busdriver01]

If you're talking about Covid, the actual number was 104.

249 were made compulsory redundant from BA

[Busdriver01]

249 were made compulsory redundant from BA

With no redundancy payment.

[TheFiddler]

With no redundancy payment.

My mistake - thought you were talking about J2. Please ignore.

[doyouevenpilotbro]

Is the BA 350 roster pretty bad at the moment?

[BluffOldSeaDog]

If you're talking about Covid, the actual number was 104.


it was 102 of us and we were all offered re-employment within 18months. Can’t fault the company, quite weird having pride in your airline

[Airdancer]

I'm in a major Dutch airline and it seems the politics want to destroy the HUB function of Schiphol and thus my airline. I have a British wife so I'm slowly looking for options in the UK. Where is Jet2 based mostly and how are the schedules? Cheers in advance

[Flying Wild]

I'm in a major Dutch airline and it seems the politics want to destroy the HUB function of Schiphol and thus my airline. I have a British wife so I'm slowly looking for options in the UK. Where is Jet2 based mostly and how are the schedules? Cheers in advance

There is no ‘mostly’ based. A little research would show you that Jet2 has 10, shortly 11 bases across the UK. Largest operations from MAN and BHX.
Busiest operation in the summer, quieter in the winter, though that is increasing year on year.
Random roster with options for fixed pattern working at reduced percentage of full salary.

[throwaway85]

If I got captain in a few years at Jet2 it would be a v good pay rise for the next couple
of years . I believe basic is 135k with around 15k on top . So £150k
Senior FO is 95k basically after flying which is pretty good also
I just can’t stand the way BA operates especially after the last few years. I know it’s been tough for most airlines but it opened my eyes.
Most people I hear that have made the move are happy with it .

I think someone tried to send me a message but it won’t work yet as I’m new to pprune

Not ex-BA, but thought I'd add my 2p:

Basic for 100% Captains is a shade under £130k; sector pay is probably about £10k; a second hat will get you get a few £k more. Part time options are being offered. Cpts had profit share of about £13k this year. Company pension contribution is 10% for 3% for Cpts.

Atmosphere is usually positive. Support from local management is incredible - really, really good. It's a great place to work, that tries hard to improve. The aircraft are very well maintained, and there's always support if you need it. There is no seniority.

Negatives (for the sake of going in with your eyes open) are generally thought to be:
1) Training department has a higher ratio of difficult instructors then perhaps you might be used to. The majority are excellent, but...
2) Manuals are improving, but still it can be hit and miss to find what one needs, when one needs it.
3) The earlies are EARLY (0400h) and the lates are LATE (0400h). That said, they have an excellent fatigue system, and are positively improving the rostering.

[throwaway85]

Company HQ is in Leeds, but you'll only go there for training unless you're also based there. There are bases all over (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Derby, Birmingham, Stansted & Bristol), except the southeast.

[Flying Wild]

Company HQ is in Leeds, but you'll only go there for training unless you're also based there. There are bases all over (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Derby, Birmingham, Stansted & Bristol), except the southeast.
For now...

[monkey.tennis]

Company HQ is in Leeds, but you'll only go there for training unless you're also based there. There are bases all over (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Derby, Birmingham, Stansted & Bristol), except the southeast.

pretty sure STN is in the south east …

[Mr Good Cat]

pretty sure STN is in the south east …<br /><br />According to my Londoner friends, you'd need to determine the latitude of Stansted in relation to Watford Gap, which puts it firmly in the South-East.

[throwaway85]

Lol - I guess STN is in the southeast, but a pain to get to from Kent/Sussex. There have been persistent rumours of a Gatwick/Southampton base which have so far come to nothing. With that said there were rumours of 10x A330's, and a £30k bonus too.... I guess it gives folks something to talk about on the way back from Turkey at 3am. Jet2 management is both good at communicating what they're doing, and good at keeping plans under wraps until they want them made public.

I did forget the new base - Liverpool - that'll open up next year.

[sidestick320]

A few extra questions if I may please:

Do you mainly do two sector days?
Do you do night stops or is it usually there and back?
Where are the simulators based?
What is the salary uplift for Training Captains?

Thanks

[Chesty Morgan]

A few extra questions if I may please:

Do you mainly do two sector days?
Do you do night stops or is it usually there and back?
Where are the simulators based?
What is the salary uplift for Training Captains?

Thanks
Mostly 2 sector days, there may be a very few 4 sector days from LBA.

Nightstops, except for the sim, are very rare. I've done 3 in the last 2 years or so. 2 tech and 1 planned but it was only a night.

Sims in Bradford and Manchester.

Dunno. Not enough. LTC is about 14k gross.

[sidestick320]

Thanks Chesty Morgan.

Is there a system for bidding for days off, earlies/lates, long/short sectors etc?

[Chesty Morgan]

There has been an AM/PM preference trial during the summer alongside various part time working options which are going to be rolled out company wide next year.

Generally earlies are short(ish) and the lates are usually longer.

But no bidding system per se. You request what you want and you might get it then you're on it for the foreseeable. Although if you choose a part time option they can't guarantee a full time option will be available down the line.

[SEBBES]

New joiners in tui get a pretty poor deal. It’s a part time contract with reduced pay. Jet 2 offers a much better package with significantly better long term career prospects.

Arguably time to command is indeed shorter at JET2, being a meritocracy and not a seniority based airline. That being said, TUI at the moment has some of the shortest time to command in its recent history. This recent bid, 73 upgrades were issued for next year, with guys and girls getting their commands who joined at the end of 2017.

I agree the contract for new joiners isn't as favourable as perhaps Jet2 though. 81.3% contract, full time summer and random off periods in the winter. A few part time FOs were given full time in the most recent bid, who had been with TUI approx 2.5 years - but IMO all new pilots should have been recruited onto full time! The flip side is despite joining on 81.3%, you can easily earn a substantial amount in overtime if you are flexible in those summer months. Full time FO's comfortably earn over 100k plus in a year.

Just to touch on "JET2 has significantly better long term career prospects" - it depends what you want out of your career. A career solely operating short haul, or the opportunity to experience both short and long haul flying.

In relation to the comment below regarding TUI not being around, I personally would find that hard to believe given load factors over 95% on average for the summer and rumours of very strong financials being released at end of year.

[flyboy146]

Arguably time to command is indeed shorter at JET2, being a meritocracy and not a seniority based airline. That being said, TUI at the moment has some of the shortest time to command in its recent history. This recent bid, 73 upgrades were issued for next year, with guys and girls getting their commands who joined at the end of 2017.

I agree the contract for new joiners isn't as favourable as perhaps Jet2 though. 81.3% contract, full time summer and random off periods in the winter. A few part time FOs were given full time in the most recent bid, who had been with TUI approx 2.5 years - but IMO all new pilots should have been recruited onto full time! The flip side is despite joining on 81.3%, you can easily earn a substantial amount in overtime if you are flexible in those summer months. Full time FO's comfortably earn over 100k plus in a year.

Just to touch on "JET2 has significantly better long term career prospects" - it depends what you want out of your career. A career solely operating short haul, or the opportunity to experience both short and long haul flying.

In relation to the comment below regarding TUI not being around, I personally would find that hard to believe given load factors over 95% on average for the summer and rumours of very strong financials being released at end of year.


A very well rounded view on TUI - however the time to command is not going to continue as it is currently. The 70 or so per annum is not the norm. Upgrade is still 6-10 years and those on the 81.3 will remain on it even after upgrading. 4 FTE being issued this year essentially means that it would take 20 years to become FTE. The company simply do not want it. Yes, you can earn vast sums in the Summer, however this comes at a huge cost to time off and fatigue. Furthermore as crewing numbers are resolved, flexi will dwindle. The sad fact is TUI is a million miles from being a premium employer of choice as it once was and the T&Cs have been ruined by selfish and incompetent past members of the CC. The vast numbers of those leaving for Jet2, VA and DHL are testament to this. The replacements will be made up of ex mill or cadets with little to no experience. Wonderful colleagues and easy days out but unless you’d like time off in the winter months to travel with nothing in return, don’t touch TUI with a MAX sized barge poll.

[SEBBES]

A very well rounded view on TUI - however the time to command is not going to continue as it is currently. The 70 or so per annum is not the norm. Upgrade is still 6-10 years and those on the 81.3 will remain on it even after upgrading. 4 FTE being issued this year essentially means that it would take 20 years to become FTE. The company simply do not want it. Yes, you can earn vast sums in the Summer, however this comes at a huge cost to time off and fatigue. Furthermore as crewing numbers are resolved, flexi will dwindle. The sad fact is TUI is a million miles from being a premium employer of choice as it once was and the T&Cs have been ruined by selfish and incompetent past members of the CC. The vast numbers of those leaving for Jet2, VA and DHL are testament to this. The replacements will be made up of ex mill or cadets with little to no experience. Wonderful colleagues and easy days out but unless you’d like time off in the winter months to travel with nothing in return, don’t touch TUI with a MAX sized barge poll.

Agreed - the command number will likely not hit anything like that number again anytime soon, but looking at the retirement numbers (which were made viewable on the cc forum some time ago) for the upcoming years, its fair to assume it will stay at a reasonable level for the foreseeable. Although you make a good point regarding the 81.3% contract, I hadn't even given it a thought that those guys and girls may only be offered command on said contract - that's hopefully a fight the CC can and will take another day..

I disagree that only 4 a year will be made full time though. I assume you weren't in the company 6/7 years ago when every single FO joined on a part time contract, and then they were all made up at the same time overnight to full time. 6 months is a long time in aviation. Anything can and will change. Who is to say that JET2 with all of their new aircraft on leases with expensive winter downtime wont look to do the same thing in the future for their crew? Anything is possible in my opinion.

"Flexi will dwindle" - Ill believe it when I see it. I have heard that every winter for years now and nothing ever changes - maybe one day it will..

I agree completely that the TUI job offer is not what is used to be, and that is a shame. Professional pilots should be offered professional contracts. Vast numbers leaving? I empathise and respect their choice if so - but if they are leaving looking for the golden ticket gig, I think that all ended about 2 decades ago!

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Jet2 already offer part time though. My mate joined them just under 2 years ago. He’s on 75% contract still with them.

Speaking with colleagues TUI seems to have changed a lot from when they joined. Then again everywhere has. I don’t know anywhere that is rosy.
Command at BA went to the bottom of the list recently. 18 months in BA I think it was. I know a few for sure who joined 2019 who got LHS earlier this year.
Even with the recent pay deal I still think LHS pay under 5 years at BA is on the low side.