Qantas, Alan Joyce’s personal play thing.

[dragon man]

BREAKINGQantas unveils ‘Yes23’ livery for three planes, reaffirms support for VoiceA key detail will be added to several Qantas planes as the national carrier backs in the Voice to parliament.
Courtney Gould (https://www.news.com.au/the-team/courtney-gould)less than 2 min read
August 14, 2023 - 11:11AMNCA NewsWire

Yes campaigners believe the road to referendum success for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament is to doorknock on a quarter of a million homes by…

Qantas boss Alan Joyce has confirmed the national carrier is supporting the Voice to parliament, unveiling special livery on three aircraft and free flights for key Yes campaigners.

The airline chief revealed the planes with the Yes23 campaign logo alongside Prime Minister Anthony Albanese at Sydney Airport on Monday morning.

Mr Joyce said the carriers support for the Voice continued the national carrier’s long commitment to reconciliation.

“We’re supporting the Yes23 campaign because we believe a formal voice to government will help close the gap for First Nations people in important areas like health, education and employment,” he said.

“Like our Flying Art livery aircraft showcasing First Nations culture to a global audience, these aircraft will send a message of support for a Yes vote as they travel the country.

“We know there are a range of views on this issue, including amongst our customers and employees, and we respect that. I encourage people to find out more, to listen to First Nations voices, and to make their own decisions.”

The livery will be carried on three aircraft: a Qantas Boeing 737, a QantasLink Dash 8 Turboprop and a Jetstar Airbus A320


Like the gay marriage referendum this has nothing to do with running an airline and catering to the people who use it. The board and CEO are a disgrace.

[Ascend Charlie]

make their own decisions.

​​​​​​​OK, my decision is to not use Qantas.

[Max Tow]

I'm a "Yes" supporter but getting involved in politics is an insult to the intelligence of QF's passengers and shareholders. Whatever next? Can't imagine AA having "Vote Trump" or BA "Remain" plastered over their aircraft. Stick to your product Qantas - the CEO is entitled to his views but I really don't want to know.

[dragon man]

If like Virgin in a previous life when it was owned by Branson he can do what ever he wanted it was his train set. This one doesn’t belong to Joyce or the board and it’s not as if it’s a pillar of our society. It survived because of tax payer generosity which hasn’t been returned , it gouges on price, it has poor service yet it try’s to take the high moral ground and lecture the public. Makes me want to puke.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Al: Thanks for blocking QR the other week Albo, gives us time to renew our tired fleet.
Albo: No worries Al, say can you do us a favour and paint "YES" on a cuppla aircraft?
Al: Sure, Albo, anything for you. How's Nate enjoying the CC?
Albo: Bonza Al, pardon the pun!

[RENURPP]

If Joyce thinks the answer is YES, I automatically think I will vote NO.

Albanese is on the WRONG horse again.

[PoppaJo]

We await the Joe Aston masterpiece…

[ampclamp]

Same boat as you Max TOW. I'm leaning towards a yes vote.

I do not think it's appropriate for a listed company to speak for all of its holders on an issue that has nothing to do with running an airline.

TBH, it's likely a case of virtue signalling by Joyce.

edit. I wonder how it will look when it likely fails to pass. A majority of voters and a majority of states is a tall order. And without both sides supporting any referendum, passing is even harder.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

The trouble for corporations in our increasingly binary society is that if you don't climb on the populous boat, you are automatically slagged as a villain. While I don't agree with this at all, for the same reasons as mentioned, if a corporation does not side with the vocal minority, the mudslinging that it's because they are a racist/bigot/misogynist (insert appropriate slur) is too damaging to ignore. There is no longer any grey areas in debate these days. You are for us or are the enemy. It's no longer safe for a corporation (or anyone for that matter) to say they do not, or should not have an opinion. If they do not, then why not, and God help them it they have the wrong one (according to the aforesaid very vocal minority).
we believe....will help close the gap for First Nations people in important areas like health, education and employment
Who's "we"? Perhaps AJ can make a personal philanthropic contribution towards some of these lofty ideals from the many millions he's gained from his tenure at Qantas. That may actually do something. Perhaps QF group can offer cheap travel to indigenous people travelling to areas to gain access to those important things like health, education and employment? But of course, basing things on race would be discriminatory, and you can't do that......oh, wait.

[Max Tow]

. It's no longer safe for a corporation (or anyone for that matter) to say they do not, or should not have an opinion. If they do not, then why not, and God help them it they have the wrong one (according to the aforesaid very vocal minority).

I'd argue the reverse. A corporation that unnecessarily gets involved in a finely balanced national debate such as this risks alienating substantial numbers of staff, shareholders and customers. Were they consulted and if not, is such position taking within the remit of the CEO or even the board?
Ironically, I feel that until Qantas focuses on restoring its own tarnished brand image, plastering its "corporate opinion" on the aircraft is probably counter-productive to helping the "Yes" vote anyway.

[brokenagain]

Virtue signalling from a company that is already on the nose for many Australians is going to do absolutely nothing for the Yes cause.

[soseg]

As someone who is indigenous and of the Bun Wurrung people I will be voting no.

[Beer Baron]

While I know everyone likes a Qantas/Joyce pile-on, it’s worth noting that they are hardly out on their own here.
A survey by The Australian Financial Review found 14 of the current top 20 companies are publicly supporting the Voice, including the big banks, Transurban and resources giants BHP, Rio Tinto and Newcrest.
Majority of ASX 20 companies publicly support Voice (https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/majority-of-asx-20-companies-publicly-support-voice-20230612-p5dfwq)

[motley flight crue]

Just reached Platinum status on QF, but I’ll use the points on AA from now on. Bye Qantas, you’ve lost the plot.

[dejapoo]

As someone who is indigenous and of the Bun Wurrung people I will be voting no.

Why's that SOSEG? Genuinely interested. Not being a smart ar$e. What about welcome to countries, smoking ceremonies, basket weaving at HQ, do Aboriginal's as a whole think it's doing more harm than good, or is it just a massive eyeroll? Again I can assure you I am being respectful and not taking the pi$$.

[soseg]

Why's that SOSEG? Genuinely interested. Not being a smart ar$e. What about welcome to countries, smoking ceremonies, basket weaving at HQ, do Aboriginal's as a whole think it's doing more harm than good, or is it just a massive eyeroll? Again I can assure you I am being respectful and not taking the pi$$.

In short, my people have bigger problems that these virtue signalling Karens have never seen with their own eyes from the comfort of their inner city homes. This vote will divide not unite. I don't need to say much more than that. Keep social politics out of business. It's just pandering to the vocal minority who like to scream and pat themselves on the back.

[vne165]

Virtue signalling from a company that is already on the nose for many Australians is going to do absolutely nothing for the Yes cause.

Spot on. The silent majority is forgotten in all the sound and fury.

Frustratingly I suspect for the yes camp, a referendum is exactly the time when the silent majority get's a voice.
Ah, the irony.

[SHVC]

I’m glad Joyce did this, I’m a strong no voter to this referendum and the more you shove it down people’s throats while delivering a **** product in your core business which is aviation. The more you will pi$$ people off and make them vote no, thanks again for helping the No vote Allan.

[pppdrive]

I was horrified listening to the News this afternoon. Joyce has struck again, but more than that he actually lied on the broadcast. Qantas (and in particular Joyce) should concentrate on operating what was once a great airline. Making a 'political' statement by endorsing a contentious referendum, and actually having some of Qantas aircraft being painted in the "Yes to the Voice" colours are an absolute disgrace. Doesn't matter if you are for or against, Qantas should not be getting involved in politics that have absolutely nothing to do with operating an Airline. As for his statement, "We are the oldest continuous operating Airline in the World." That's just an outright lie, or did I miss a news statement that KLM has ceased operating. I hope KLM sues him personally. The sooner he leaves Qantas, the sooner it may be able to get back to being a great Airline that it was in the 70's when I worked for them and was proud to wear the uniform. It will be interesting to see how many people his latest 'mistaken idea' will be driven away from Qantas. Paul

[Colonel_Klink]

It amazes me how someone who despises his employees and the working class can be such a massive proponent of such a left wing agenda.

[MikeHatter732]

It amazes me how someone who despises his employees and the working class can be such a massive proponent of such a left wing agenda.
Exactly! Imagine AJ was this progressive with industrial relations!

[dr dre]

We await the Joe Aston masterpiece…

Joe’s already written an article on the voice campaigners…..

​​​​​……except it’s about the No campaign, and he’s absolutely torn into them (https://www.afr.com/rear-window/jacinta-price-takes-the-barnaby-joyce-route-20230418-p5d1gx).

[dragon man]

Another great video worth listening to

https://youtu.be/US1zNwrVsPI

[dr dre]

I do not think it's appropriate for a listed company to speak for all of its holders on an issue that has nothing to do with running an airline.

This isn’t the first time QF has painted an aircraft with a message of constitution recognition of indigenous people. Happened in 2014 on a Q400 and it didn’t receive nearly any negative reaction back them:

QANTAS unveils a new Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander special livery (https://worldairlinenews.com/2014/08/13/qantas-unveils-a-new-aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islander-special-livery/)

[SOPS]

I was horrified listening to the News this afternoon. Joyce has struck again, but more than that he actually lied on the broadcast. Qantas (and in particular Joyce) should concentrate on operating what was once a great airline. Making a 'political' statement by endorsing a contentious referendum, and actually having some of Qantas aircraft being painted in the "Yes to the Voice" colours are an absolute disgrace. Doesn't matter if you are for or against, Qantas should not be getting involved in politics that have absolutely nothing to do with operating an Airline. As for his statement, "We are the oldest continuous operating Airline in the World." That's just an outright lie, or did I miss a news statement that KLM has ceased operating. I hope KLM sues him personally. The sooner he leaves Qantas, the sooner it may be able to get back to being a great Airline that it was in the 70's when I worked for them and was proud to wear the uniform. It will be interesting to see how many people his latest 'mistaken idea' will be driven away from Qantas. Paul


KLM did not operate during WW2. That’s why he said… Continuous Operating Airline.

And he should stay out of politics

[blubak]

Exactly! Imagine AJ was this progressive with industrial relations!
Just loves to poke his nose into things that shouldnt concern him, like somebody else pointed out he should concentrate on running the airline & keep his big mouth shut.

[Dogbolter]

Yep, that’s made my mind up for me now.

voting NO

And I’m a shareholder.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

KLM did not operate during WW2. That’s why he said… Continuous Operating Airline.



You could argue Qantas hasn’t been operating continuously for that long either, courtesy of Alan’s little tantrum in 2011.

[t_cas]

KLM did not operate during WW2. That’s why he said… Continuous Operating Airline.

And he should stay out of politics

AJ himself shut the airline down to prove he is the best. Does that interrupt the “continuous” bit?

[CaptainInsaneO]

They'll turn customers away

[dr dre]

They'll turn customers away

They said the same thing in 2017 about QF’s support of same sex marriage, QF then had 3 consecutive years of billion dollar profits.

[dusty99]

Vote No. Unless you want to see us as a country go back to the 1950's being divided and you're hip pocket to get much smaller. Just a another gravy train for inner city ones claiming to be marginalised gaining off Australian tax payers via a blank cheque.

This QF stunt will only help the No surely.

[mudguard01]

I agree. Shameful; behavior from a CEO. I am no longer an ambassador for the Airline I once flew for. Stick with running an airline not this crap.

[ersa]

Remember when Joyce marginalised Non Vaccinated people during Covid 19 , he's doing the same for the Non Aboriginals .

[mates rates]

I hope VA have a lot of excess capacity,they are going to need it.These virtue signalling inner city elites have no idea how the ethos of the REAL Australians works.We do not like having anything forced down our throats.Especially how to vote.This could be Qantas’ Bud Light moment.

[Frank Burden]

I looked into my porridge this morning and Alan Joyce was looking back at me, I looked into my cup or tea and Alan Joyce was looking back at me, I went to the toilet and looked into the bowl and Alan Joyce was looking back at me, and so on for the rest of the day. He is everywhere in my life! But his job is to run an airline! How can he be so pervasive in my life when his job is to run an airline? Don’t worry, although I cannot erase him from my life I have my own form of revenge. For ten years all overseas flights on Singapore Airlines. All domestic flights on Virgin Australia. You may be invading my conscious mind, but I am trying to make sure you do not profit from your invasive, intrusive, and egotistical views on my personal thoughts. I am sure like a number of retired politicians you will continue to promote your personal narrative once you retire from Qantas but from my perspective I will continue to see you in my toilet bowl and decide whether it is number one or two which you will be receiving on each occasion!

[Troo believer]

What’s even more concerning is how the thought police (HR) in Qantas will ensure that any internal debate on this matter is squashed. How this mob controls all facets of recruitment to propaganda and social media under Joyce is ruining the culture within Qantas. They over step often outside the bounds of law. Company speak social commentary bullying entangled in capitalist hypocrisy. Does Alan have his eye on a political future. His ego won’t allow him to ride off into the sunset never to be heard of again.

[stevieboy330]

Pretty funny waisting time on this ****e while half the Pilots in the group are about to start industrial action after having their pay and conditions torn to shreds by QF IR. They are starting to look like the people having a fancy dinner on the Titanic while someone is yelling "iceberg dead ahead" in the background.

[Dunhovrin]

If like Virgin in a previous life when it was owned by Branson he can do what ever he wanted it was his train set.
Check out the latest ad for Virgin Atlantic. Can’t “go woke, go broke” as they don’t make any money anyway.

[601]

the national carrier
When did this occur?
May have been the case years ago before privatisation

[PAXboy]

Always important to support the politicians. Then support the next lot when they get in. Murdoch has brought this to a high art.

[Orange future]

Remember when Joyce marginalised Non Vaccinated people during Covid 19 , he's doing the same for the Non Aboriginals .

Not exactly sure how AJ can marginalise 97% of the population?

[Orange future]

Just reached Platinum status on QF, but I’ll use the points on AA from now on. Bye Qantas, you’ve lost the plot.

Are you sure you are avoiding the problem by moving to AA?

According to American Airline's Statement on "Public Policy Engagement and Political Participation"

"We regularly express our views regarding policies that might impact our business, team members, shareholders and other stakeholders – and we are committed to participation in policy and political processes in a manner consistent with exemplary corporate governance practices"

EVERY large business is engaged in influencing political outcomes ALL the time. Qantas is no different.

[dr dre]

Are you sure you are avoiding the problem by moving to AA?

AA also supported/supports the “BLM” movement which drew the ire of a lot of American conservatives. They’ve increased their revenue every year since, it doesn’t seem to have made a dent in their income despite calls to boycott the airline.

[dragon man]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1307/img_7037_3ae0e18cd90e3a0a24286aaf59fe875ba5860f73.jpeg
What has changed from Joyce shutting the airline down with no notice when Albo was transport minister to today? They look like best mates. Qatar denied rights, support for the voice, you have to wonder.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I'd argue the reverse. A corporation that unnecessarily gets involved in a finely balanced national debate such as this risks alienating substantial numbers of staff, shareholders and customers.
They don't care. That alienation is internal, and is rarely sufficient that a staff member resigns in protest, a shareholder sells his holding, or a customer actually puts their principles ahead of their pocket when push comes to shove. Sure there's grumbling, but that's all there is. The damage the companies are sh*t scared of is the reputational damage of defending themselves against the inevitable smear campaign.

While I know everyone likes a Qantas/Joyce pile-on, it’s worth noting that they are hardly out on their own here.

Majority of ASX 20 companies publicly support Voice (https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/majority-of-asx-20-companies-publicly-support-voice-20230612-p5dfwq)

I rest my case.

[Captn Rex Havack]

So you could have the whole crew on board one of these particular aircraft who are firmly in the NO camp, but little Al has ignored their views. Maybe any firm NO voters should refuse to operate these machines as they are being misrepresented and ignored by AL and his meathead mates. Its all about him and being woke.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Let's see the first QF crew member (or any staff member) take a public stand against the company.

PS Don't hold your breath.

[CaptainInsaneO]

They said the same thing in 2017 about QF’s support of same sex marriage, QF then had 3 consecutive years of billion dollar profits.
and they could've had a larger profit..

[dejapoo]

Oldest trick in the book.... any publicity is good publicity, dixon school of business. Bit like never wasting a crisis, sorry "covid supply chain"....

[Chronic Snoozer]

Well I hope in the interest of balance, QANTAS will distribute No pamphlets with their inflight magazine.

[Global Aviator]

It’s a slippery slope, no issue C suites supporting causes, but who dicides the company is behind that cause? Is it merely a CEO decision? Surely you’d think a message like this would have to come from the board.

Next they will be playing I Still Call Straya home with cutaways to…..

I wonder if Albo went and talked to some locals on his jaunt to Arnhemland? G

[MickG0105]

It’s a slippery slope, no issue C suites supporting causes, but who dicides the company is behind that cause? Is it merely a CEO decision? Surely you’d think a message like this would have to come from the board.
...

It would have been a board decision. That is almost certainly why the Company Secretary's name appears after the words

"Qantas proudly supports Voice to Parliament
Authorised by ..."

adjacent to the Yes23 logo.

[Global Aviator]

It would have been a board decision. That is almost certainly why the Company Secretary's name appears after the words

"Qantas proudly supports Voice to Parliament
Authorised by ..."

adjacent to the Yes23 logo.

That will teach me not to read it all first :).

[MickG0105]

That will teach me not to read it all first :).
You wouldn't be Robinson Crusoe on that count.

[SHVC]

Well I hope in the interest of balance, QANTAS will distribute No pamphlets with their inflight magazine.

I hope they leave all the crap out of the crew rooms.

[finestkind]

KLM still operated in the Caribbean during WW11 I believe

[t_cas]

It would have been a board decision. That is almost certainly why the Company Secretary's name appears after the words

"Qantas proudly supports Voice to Parliament
Authorised by ..."

adjacent to the Yes23 logo.

“supporting a voice to parliament” is very different to voting yes in a referendum to change a countries constitution.
Regardless how you choose to vote, be very careful how lightly the constitution is being valued here.

[A320 Flyer]

I hope they leave all the crap out of the crew rooms.

who goes to the crew room anymore……..

[PoppaJo]

And here we go…for tomorrow’s AFR, unpaywalled.

​​​​​​Qantas the only voice reaching Anthony Albanese​


Joe Aston (http://safari-reader://www.afr.com/by/joe-aston-hveym)
Columnist
Rear Window
https://static.ffx.io/images/$width_220%2C$height_220/t_crop_fill%2Cq_auto:best%2Cfl_any_format/ec4e2451514f597f7c1053bb930b9eddeb534380


Anthony Albanese and Alan Joyce joined forces for a media spectacular on Monday (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/more-flights-good-for-travellers-and-exporters-20230814-p5dwa6). Before an adoring crowd and a medley of celebrities at Sydney Airport, the Prime Minister and the Qantas CEO unveiled three Qantas aircraft painted with the “Yes23” logo in support of an Indigenous Voice to parliament.

For the unacquainted, “Yes23” is Albo’s answer to the dual questions “Would you like a secret Chairman’s Lounge membership for your son and how old is he?”


Albanese and Joyce posed for photos with Adam Goodes, Noel Pearson and Linda Burney – though curiously, Qantas’ incoming CEO Vanessa Hudson didn’t make the cut.

Bear in mind, Qantas hasn’t painted entire jumbo jets in Indigenous livery, as it’s been doing since 1994. These are logo stickers that barely cover four portholes on a regional turboprop, like something a bogan would put on the back windscreen of his ute. “If this van’s a-rockin’, don’t come a-knockin’!” Joyce probably had them made at Supercheap Auto in Bexley and he can peel them off his planes at a moment’s notice. That’s how much capital he’s really expended here.

Albanese was in full rhetorical flight. “There is no company in Australia that immediately says Australia like this brand of Qantas,” he said.

So Australia is complacent, decrepit, tone deaf, immensely greedy, a bully, a welfare bludger, a horrible boss and a voracious influence trafficker? Little wonder we all suffer from the cultural cringe.

“The Spirit of Australia says yes!” he proclaimed. Since when does the Prime Minister of Australia subjugate his high office to the marketing tagline of a vendor, of a rapacious corporation? His next stop was a Suncorp event, where he told the faithful “Lucky you’re with AAMI.”

The PM’s political antenna is clearly not functioning. How could he possibly believe the Yes campaign might reverse its flagging popular support by aligning with Australia’s most complained about company, with a brand suffering from “new levels of distrust” (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/growing-distrust-in-qantas-joyce-opens-door-for-virgin-roy-morgan-20230207-p5cio7)? How could he think that holding joint campaign stops with Joyce, Australia’s most reviled business leader, is beneficial for the Voice’s prospects?

By our rudimentary grasp of it, the Voice is the pathway, preferred by First Nations leaders, to repairing entrenched Aboriginal disadvantage. And Albo is barnstorming with Alan Joyce, who earned $24 million last year (https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-24m-golden-parachute-20230329-p5cwgc) and just sold another $17 million of Qantas shares to buy his neighbour’s apartment. Knocking out the wall between his penthouse and the penthouse next door – that’s Alan’s idea of closing the gap. As if mug punters identify with this guy or his values. You’d be forgiven for wondering if Albo is trying to lose his referendum.

Best of all, Albanese and Joyce invited a battalion of journalists but then refused to take a single question. “Ladies and gentlemen, we’re here to pull the dust covers off our flying corflutes and to say some things that don’t make sense. Then we’re all moving on, thanks very much. Here’s my stunt on the biggest political issue of the day. The end. Show’s over.”

Since when has that been a thing in Australia? Does Albanese think he’s Narendra Modi? It’s incredibly poor form and everyone can see what’s going on here. The Prime Minister is running away from having to explain the propriety of his conduct in relation to Qantas.

He won’t take questions because some of them might be, “Why did you hit up Alan Joyce for a Chairman’s Lounge membership for your adult son (https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-puts-albo-s-son-in-qantas-chairman-s-lounge-20230802-p5dtf3)? How many free upgrades has he received? Why haven’t you declared this?”

Equally, Joyce will not want to clarify the commerciality (https://www.afr.com/rear-window/anthony-albanese-alan-joyce-won-t-let-the-truth-set-them-free-20230806-p5ducb), as he sees it, of his arrangement with the Albanese family – or indeed with all parliamentarians. Incidentally, someone should ask Joyce how many Indigenous Australians he’s invited to join the Chairman’s Lounge. Not very many is a safe bet.Beholden to JoyceThe problem with Albanese’s covert Chairman’s Lounge gratuity is that he is now beholden to Joyce. He needs Joyce to protect him and not admit that in fact the PM solicited a gift. Therefore, Alan Joyce now has the Prime Minister of this country over a barrel. That’s how even the smallest favours can trap you.

Remember, the great Mick Young, a hero of the post-war ALP, resigned from Bob Hawke’s ministry over an undeclared teddy bear. Were Young alive today, what would he think of Albanese’s grasping ways?

It’s a serious lapse of judgment – especially from someone who apparently cannot restrain himself from intervening in aviation policy in a manner so clearly detrimental to the economic interests of ordinary Australians.

At face value, the decision of the Albanese government to refuse Qatar Airways’ bid to operate 28 new flights per week to Australia is a disgraceful one. Albo is smiling and nodding along to Catherine King’s comical, mutating justifications (https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-retirement-tour-storms-canberra-20230809-p5dv9q) for it. Her decision was really his decision, and the only beneficiary is Qantas.

The entire travel sector, airports, wall-to-wall state Labor governments (https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/more-flights-good-for-travellers-and-exporters-20230814-p5dwa6) and even his own Trade Minister (https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/tourism-minister-doesn-t-deny-supporting-extra-flights-for-qatar-airlines-20230813-p5dw1r.html) can barely believe it. Albanese is preventing 150,000 additional foreign tourists from arriving in Australia each year. They catch Ubers, drink coffee and buy clothes. They are customers of businesses who overwhelmingly employ low-paid workers.

Albo should talk to the struggling housekeeper at the Mantra in Brisbane who misses out on extra shifts as a result of his Qatari fatwa. She just wants to get her bad teeth fixed and buy her granddaughter a Christmas present. Could the PM explain to her why her job is less important to him than Alan Joyce’s?

This is where Albanese misunderstands the politics of this issue badly. These cleaners, those shop assistants, they’re Labor’s constituency, not fabulously rich Qantas executives. People getting off welfare into casual work – some of them might even be Aboriginal. They are the battlers enduring a cost-of-living crisis. They are the single mums so central to Albo’s heroic personal origin myth. And they’re the ones most harmed by his venal decision.

That’s the realpolitik here, but Albanese seems to have no grasp of it. His self-declared priorities are fighting inflation (which would include democratising airfares) while lifting wages for working people, but he is so totally captured. He’s lived at Kirribilli House a mere 15 months. Maybe long ago he saw a light on the hill. Now he only sees the mastlights on superyachts as they pass by.

[SHVC]

Wouldn’t thins be foreign interference now given QF is not Australian.

[laardvark]

Qantas , i love the smell of facepalm in the morning .

[MickG0105]

Remember, the great Mick Young, a hero of the post-war ALP, resigned from Bob Hawke’s ministry over an undeclared teddy bear.
No, Mick Young did not resign from Bob Hawke’s ministry over an undeclared teddy bear. It seems that Joe's grasp of Australian political history rivals his poor understanding of CPI inputs.

The Paddington Bear controversy in 1984 led to Mick being stood down from his portfolio of Special Minister of State by Hawke pending the outcome of the Black Inquiry into the matter. Young was cleared by Black, and returned to his role. No resignation.

Young had, in fact, previously been forced to resign from his Special Minister of State portfolio back in July 1983. That was over his breaching Cabinet-security and lying to Hawke over the Combe-Ivanov Affair.

Young finally did resign from his then portfolio of Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs but that was not until 1988. This time it was over his dodgy handling of campaign finances in the Harris-Daishowa affair.

​​​​​​​Were Young alive today, what would he think of Albanese’s grasping ways?
Given Mick's known form, he'd likely have a few pointers for Albo.

[eye_in_the_sky]

Is everyone else sick of the constant narrative of "First Nations" this, "Vote Yes" that on every JQ company email lately?
What if my personal views go against the logos on the side of the metal I'm assigned to drive? Can I refuse to drive it?
Do they have a right to demand I move their propaganda machine from point A to point B?
But then again, what union is going to take this on

[V-Jet]

Why this lunatic idea got past a drunken thought bubble I’ll never understand.

The ‘yes’ vote is racist at its very core - it’s morally bankrupt.

Why any company would align themselves with anything political is beyond me. Why a company would align itself with a policy straight out of the 1930’s is reprehensible!

[PoppaJo]

Is everyone else sick of the constant narrative of "First Nations" this, "Vote Yes" that on every JQ company email lately?
What if my personal views go against the logos on the side of the metal I'm assigned to drive? Can I refuse to drive it?
Do they have a right to demand I move their propaganda machine from point A to point B?
But then again, what union is going to take this on
It’s either Yes Votes, Diversity, Pride, Equality, Wellbeing, Reconciliation, did I mention diversity.

I got an email mail from someone the other day, I counted 48 lines in the signature of agenda pushing. My signature has three lines. Name, Base and Title.

[V-Jet]

I got an email mail from someone the other day, I counted 48 lines in the signature of agenda pushing. My signature has three lines. Name, Base and Title.

May I be so bold as to suggest you might be taller than 5'0"? I guess if people can't see you in your elevated heels, you might want 48 lines in your signature:):)

[cLeArIcE]

Is everyone else sick of the constant narrative of "First Nations" this, "Vote Yes" that on every JQ company email lately?
What if my personal views go against the logos on the side of the metal I'm assigned to drive? Can I refuse to drive it?
Do they have a right to demand I move their propaganda machine from point A to point B?
But then again, what union is going to take this on
I find that best way to keep your sanity is to delete company emails without reading them. The continual propaganda is mind numbing.

[spiritofoz]

Is everyone else sick of the constant narrative of "First Nations" this, "Vote Yes" that on every JQ company email lately?
What if my personal views go against the logos on the side of the metal I'm assigned to drive? Can I refuse to drive it?
Do they have a right to demand I move their propaganda machine from point A to point B?
But then again, what union is going to take this on

just report them all as phishing

[CaptainInsaneO]

I would think that if they paint this on the aircraft, there should by law by asterisk underneath it that says, 'This may or may not be the view of Qantas employees'.

[Heavy Metal]

“ Why is it relevant what I do in my private life? I’m not a public figure. People regard the CEO of Qantas as like a politician and it definitely shouldn’t be. It’s a business figure,’ Mr Joyce told The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/the-life-of-alan-joyce-loved-loathed-late-and-lost/news-story/e93c9b74a5e8b80bf23661f5b2b86e53)last year”

No Alan, people don’t regard you as a politician. It is you who keep thinking you are one and using the Qantas brand to inflate your point of view, way beyond what anyone actually cares what you personally think.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/outgoing-qantas-ceo-alan-joyce-reveals-retirement-plans/news-story/3856edda343faeaf6fa6dda98cf7ce7b

[601]

Does it carry an authorisation?

[VHOED191006]

“ Why is it relevant what I do in my private life? I’m not a public figure. People regard the CEO of Qantas as like a politician and it definitely shouldn’t be. It’s a business figure,’ Mr Joyce told The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/the-life-of-alan-joyce-loved-loathed-late-and-lost/news-story/e93c9b74a5e8b80bf23661f5b2b86e53)last year”

No Alan, people don’t regard you as a politician. It is you who keep thinking you are one and using the Qantas brand to inflate your point of view, way beyond what anyone actually cares what you personally think.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/outgoing-qantas-ceo-alan-joyce-reveals-retirement-plans/news-story/3856edda343faeaf6fa6dda98cf7ce7b
Yes, he is a public figure. He is the CEO of one of the biggest, most internationally recognised and iconic Australian icons. He has a rather big profile in Australia. He is well known by people for his actions (not making any connotation here) with the airline. Therefore, he is a public figure.

[SHVC]

Remember when you vote, you need to put No in both boxes….just letting ya all know.


“In Australia there is no hierarchy of descent; there must be no privilege of origin”
Bob Hawke.

[dragon man]

Albo and Alan’s woke pro-Voice campaign bringing Qantas and Labor back down to earthThe once great Flying Kangaroo has been trashed by a CEO who loves to grandstand for social justice while letting the airline run to seed, writes James Morrow.
https://archive.md/YIqlb/7088e354558420b4d76b3f735285ad2a8c6eccca.png (https://archive.md/o/YIqlb/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/journalists/james-morrow)James Morrow (https://archive.md/o/YIqlb/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/journalists/james-morrow)
@pwafork (https://archive.md/o/YIqlb/https://twitter.com/pwafork)
3 min read
August 15, 2023 - 1:23PM
https://archive.md/YIqlb/ccc4e69085c84a9d4b057ccb5af2b3ef83ed6227.webp
Qantas’ ‘empty virtue signalling’ will make no difference to the Voice vote


You really have to hand it to Qantas, which has come up with what might be the most novel marketing strategy in commercial aviation history.
The pitch, which was unveiled at Sydney Airport on Monday morning with a little help from the prime minister (who doesn’t have to worry about flying commercial, at least for a bit), goes something like this.
We may not get you there on time. We may not get your bags there at all.
But guess what: If you’re lucky, there will be a big rainbow sticker on the side of your plane telling you to vote yes to the Voice.
Bon voyage!https://archive.md/YIqlb/8b6def08530f585e77eb8b6a36af0ee15afffdd2.jpgPrime Minister Anthony Albanese and Qantas CEO Alan Joyce attend the launch of the Qantas 'Yes' Campaign. Picture: NCA Newswire / Gaye GerardThat this is not Mad Men-level marketing genius goes without saying.
But nor is it surprising that the airline has gone down this particular runway, given the power the Voice has to make otherwise sensible people sell the idea in utterly insensible ways. https://archive.md/YIqlb/ccf4fe7eedab59fa287442ec37588e63baa8e33b.jpgQantas Baggage Handlers Throw Luggage in TikTok Video. Picture: Tik TokIt is for precisely this reason that nobody at any of the very high-powered campaign consultancies engaged by Yes23 and the Uluru Dialogue crash tackled Alan Joyce the moment they saw him advancing in their direction.
You can only imagine the Zoom call that led to Monday’s event.
“Okay team, any thoughts on high profile folk we could sign up to the Yes campaign?”
“Well, I hear the guy who turned his company into the most complained about airline in Australia might be available.”
“Who? Alan Joyce? Same guy who just cashed in $17 million in share options to buy a new apartment overlooking the Harbour? Yes, great thinking, he’s just who we need to tell struggling Australians to vote Yes and atone for their privilege.”
You see the problem.
The spectacle of a gent who presided over his company raking in billions of dollars in Covid subsidies while it unlawfully fired thousands of ground staff during the pandemic and who sets fares as high as his airline’s customer satisfaction is low might not be the best ambassador for constitutional change. https://archive.md/YIqlb/1031fb9e33dd086f05281f43bef8d912ffd816ea.jpgTWU NSW/QLD Secretary Richard Olsen at the Qantas terminal protesting job cuts. Picture: NCA NewsWire / Christian GillesEconomy passengers tell horror stories of bags gone astray and cabins that have been allowed to go to seed.
Meanwhile hedonists have observed that Qantas’ international business class has all the charm of the waiting room of an expensive Double Bay wellness clinic and is nowhere near as swank as the swell products on offer from Asian airlines like Singapore or ANA or Gulf carriers like Etihad and Qatar.
Speaking of Qatar, it is also worth noting that Qantas gets away with charging outrageous fares and treating customers like mugs because it seems that the government that regulates the airline industry allows it too. This is the same government that recently knocked back Qatar’s application to expand its landing rights in Australia
Particularly as Qantas has also decided to offer free tickets to campaigners pushing the Yes case (no such courtesy extended to the other side, of course).
Asked to explain all this by the Coalition, Transport Minister Catherine King stood up in parliament the other day and gave a smug answer about protecting local jobs and the national interest.https://archive.md/YIqlb/26d3e17ebd8860cf5907df6dc46b858342b5378b.jpgCatherine King during Question Time at Parliament House in Canberra. Picture: NCA NewsWire / Martin OllmanSadly the House of Representatives does not allow follow-up questions but, if it did, the Opposition might have asked how the minister managed to keep a straight face while talking about Qantas as a champion of local employment. Or, for that matter, if the national interest means keeping Australian tourist dollars at home because, absent competition, its too damn expensive to go anywhere else.
This week also saw the tantalising revelation that Tourism and Trade Minister Don Farrell declined to deny that he was in favour of giving Qatar more access to the Australian market, but that he was apparently overruled somewhere further up the chain.
Ultimately, it may turn out that in the long run the government has done Qantas no favours by blocking overseas competitors who could teach them a thing or two about comfort and service. And, in the meantime, for both Joyce and Albaneese, this can only go so far.
Just as Qantas’s once loyal customers believe the airline has lost focus, polls suggest the same thing is happening to Labor, and that the PM’s high pressure sales tactics on the Voice are distracting from more pressing cost of living issues.
A new CEO, Vanessa Hudson, comes in to the Qantas job in a few months.
She’ll have her work cut out for her winning back the trust of a customer base that has seen that trust abused in recent years.
Putting an end to politics would be a good start.

[V-Jet]

I would think that if they paint this on the aircraft, there should by law by asterisk underneath it that says, 'This may or may not be the view of Qantas employees'.

OR - the bloody passengers paying for it!! What fool allowed a once great airline's CEO (and management team because he didn't do this on his own) to get involved in ANY political message?

Either the entire management team, led by Joyce (as I recently heard quoted the 'mincing midget') are complete idiots, or - is there a political payback somewhere?

There is always a logical reason. For or against posters here, I credit with reasonable intelligence. The 'for's' as much as the 'against' (obviously we know the 'for's' are wrong, but thats MHO) are in furious agreement that a monumentally stupid idea is for ANY company to take such a stand on political issues. Frankly, it's business 101 to do the exact opposite.

Where is the logic? Attempting to 'prove' you're more Australian than the next company? With the polls on this removed in papers as soon as they are published because they are so far against? (recent news.com.au). Just doesn't wash. If anyone in marketing who reads this can find a reason, please let me know. I can't see a 'sound' and 'logical' reason - so what is it? And we know Elaine is a masterful political animal.

There's a value in this for QF (if not Elains personally - maybe as simple as an AOM?) - what's the value??

[SHVC]

I’d take a punt and think Joyce might take a stab at politics. Be looking for a parachute seat with full labor endorsement.

[A320 Flyer]

I’d take a punt and think Joyce might take a stab at politics. Be looking for a parachute seat with full labor endorsement.

Politicians don’t get paid anywhere near enough for little Al

[RealSatoshi]

I’d take a punt and think Joyce might take a stab at politics.
Not possible unless he renounces his Irish citizenship - Politicians in Australia are not allowed to hold dual citizenships.

[dragon man]

Joe Aston the gift that keeps on giving.
Rear Window https://archive.md/kGGiL/c7303bb2dd0a7b2cdb147084087488e9dac3a9aa.pngMinister for Qantas Catherine King crashes on take-offJoe Aston (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/by/joe-aston-hveym)ColumnistUpdated Aug 16, 2023 – 7.38pm, first published at 7.30pm
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The federal Transport Minister Catherine King is fast making herself a figure of abject derision.
Having blocked Qatar Airways from launching 28 new flights to Australia per week over the howls of sundry state governments and the entire travel and tourism sector, King is now offering her fourth different rationale for that decision in as many weeks.
First, it was in response to a human rights incident at Doha Airport in 2020 (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/minister-blocks-bid-to-bring-down-airfares-boost-tourism-20230717-p5down). https://archive.md/kGGiL/27414fe760749f4ce32799cfefcd621a3849c2ac.webp Transport Minister Catherine King has given yet another car crash interview on her decision to block new Qatar Airways flights to Australia. Alex Ellinghausen “I want to be able to decarbonise the transport sector” was King’s second explanation (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/minister-denies-searches-of-australian-women-in-doha-behind-move-to-block-qatar-airways-20230723-p5dqmr.html) last month – and a nonsensical one given Qatar operates one of the youngest and most fuel-efficient fleets in the global airline industry.
Third, King told parliament last week that she’d refused Qatar to protect “long-term, well-paid, secure jobs [for] Australians in the aviation sector” (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-retirement-tour-storms-canberra-20230809-p5dv9q). Those would be Qantas jobs she’s referring to, of course, which are some of the least secure jobs going around. Just ask the 1700 baggage handlers Qantas sacked illegally in 2020 or the 8000 employees Joyce had already axed or outsourced before the pandemic.
On Tuesday, King went on Cairns radio and linked the Qatar rebuff (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/it-s-in-national-interest-to-help-qantas-pay-for-planes-king-20230815-p5dwoe?btis) to the fact “Qantas has just purchased brand-new planes – that’s at a significant cost … They’re bigger planes, they’re quieter planes, they’re … better for the environment, so we’re going to start to see a lot of that.”
Is she serious?! Qantas is an ASX-listed corporation, 24 per cent foreign-owned, generating record profits for its shareholders. It made $2.5 billion in pre-tax profit in the 12 months to June 30.
It did so, incidentally, by ripping the faces off its customers, by charging airfares previously unheard-of, for levels of service the airline conceded were “[not] what we expect of ourselves.”
That is what taxpaying Australian travellers got from Qantas in return for the $2.7 billion of Commonwealth subsidies the airline gobbled during COVID (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-has-canberra-all-figured-out-20230226-p5cnp0)-19.
And now we have an Australian cabinet minister making a protectionist trade ruling for the primary purpose of subsidising the long-delayed capex bill of a publicly traded company. I mean, what planet are we on here?
The idea that Qantas needs or deserves further government assistance is completely risible. And is this seriously how the federal government is conducting Australia’s trade policy with our international partners?
A massive wealth transfer from Australian consumers to Qantas shareholders is now Albanese government policy. That’s the whole function of anticompetitive conduct, to create economic rents, or super-profits, that would otherwise be competed away.
Other operators, such as Qatar, look at those rents and say: “Gimme some of that; gimme some slots and even though consumer prices will fall, we can still earn an acceptable return on our capital.” And Australia’s government is saying “No thanks”!
King was not finished. Next, she regurgitated a version of her Question Time line that Qatar’s new flights are “not in our national interest.” Yet irreconcilably, she then noted that “we’ve also seen a lot of [other] international carriers … starting to ask to increase capacity as well.
“So, we’ve got before us at the moment Singapore, Hong Kong, Vietnam Airlines, I understand Turkish Airlines … and a few others are starting to show interest.”
Hang on, so new Singapore Airlines flights are in the national interest? Vietnam Airlines and Cathay flights are good for Australia? That makes zero sense. Don’t these flights need to be blocked as well, to help Qantas pay for its new planes (the ones it’ll only really start paying for after Alan Joyce collects his last bonus (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-helsinki-final-act-20230522-p5dael))?
The Labor Party can’t seriously be taking a hard line against Qatar Airways on any geopolitical basis. Penny Wong just gave Palestine East Jerusalem (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/palestinians-seize-on-labor-s-israel-shift-to-demand-recognition-20230809-p5dv1e) for crying out loud!
King kept on digging. “It’s good to see, I think, Emirates has also increased its capacity as well, but international aviation – certainly incoming – is still not back to where we’d like it to be.”
King omits to mention that all Emirates flights to and from Australia are actually Qantas flights, so no wonder she’s delighted to permit more of them. The two airlines – indeed, the two largest international carriers in this market – operate as one business (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/what-wouldn-t-anthony-albanese-do-for-qantas-20230723-p5dqlt). They even have permission from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to collude on pricing.
Qantas’ far smaller rival Virgin Australia enjoys no such immunity. As a code-share partner, it sells Virgin tickets on Qatar flights to Europe and the United Kingdom and then relies on Qatar’s incoming traffic to feed on to its domestic Australian flights.
So, the Albanese government is not merely pampering Qantas to the detriment of its foreign rivals, it is quite nakedly preferring Qantas over its smaller domestic competitor. In her next car crash interview, we’d like to hear King explain why Virgin Australia jobs don’t count as “long-term, well-paid, secure jobs for Australians in the aviation sector”.
King concluded her baffling treatise by saying that, “Prices have been too high, and we know that. We’ve got an aviation green paper leading into a white paper about to come out shortly that talks a bit about the issue around pricing competition, consumer rights and the importance of that.”
Oh, don’t worry, there’s a green paper coming. It’s already late, but it will lead to a white paper in two years’ time!
This is King absenting herself from the decisions she could make right now to alleviate the pain of Australian travellers, facing fares to London, Los Angeles and Phuket that are 55 per cent higher than 2019, and the local tourism industry, operating with 60 per cent less visitors than 2019.
King seems to think she’s making a dessert. It starts green, then turns white, and in a flash a magic pudding will be served. In reality, it’s just another government process for Qantas to capture, and how hard could that be when the minister can barely sustain a logical narrative sequence?
It’s another triple jackpot for Joyce, a longstanding beneficiary of not just bad policy, but no policy. “Oh no, you can’t provide an emergency loan to Virgin”. Five minutes later (https://archive.md/o/kGGiL/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/anthony-albanese-alan-joyce-won-t-let-the-truth-set-them-free-20230806-p5ducb): “Please give me $2.7 billion I don’t have to pay back.”
Nothing King has said thus far is defensible. Absolutely nothing. She’s had four goes at this and she sounds more deranged each time. Not to put too fine a point on it, but she may not be the sharpest mind ever to come out of regional Victoria.
What’s the fifth version of King’s reasons going to be? “Qatar” sounds too familiar to “Qantas” – this is now an international trademark dispute?
She should go and speak to her constituents in Wendouree West, a real hotspot for stolen TVs on Facebook Marketplace. After nearly two years locked outside Dan Andrews′ pitiless ring of steel, all they want is to use the last of their JobKeeper savings on a trip to the Gold Coast.
Sadly, Jetstar’s flights from Avalon now cost the equivalent of three weeks’ rent. They’re being wrung dry by Qantas, and their local member is public official number one protecting the racket. Catherine King, Ballarat’s finest

[Warragul]

Remember when you vote, you need to put No in both boxes….just letting ya all know.


“In Australia there is no hierarchy of descent; there must be no privilege of origin”
Bob Hawke.

With one question on the ballot.

[PoppaJo]

And for any future attempts at Qatar bilateral expansion, watch Alan magically appear as a ‘consultant’ in the submission period on the QF books.

He keeps banging on about this being the ‘most competitive market in the world’, that is, on Alan’s terms however.

[Cat3508]

[QUOTE=RealSatoshi;11485838]Not possible unless he renounces his Irish citizenship.

The sooner that horrible little man packs it in and goes back there, the better.

[mudguard01]

I worked for Qantas to fly. My political beliefs dont belong at work nor should this CEO be using Qantas as a political platform. Disgraceful behaviour.

[dragon man]

I worked for Qantas to fly. My political beliefs dont belong at work nor should this CEO be using Qantas as a political platform. Disgraceful behaviour.


If I expressed my political beliefs at Qantas today they would dismiss me.

[neville_nobody]

If I expressed my political beliefs at Qantas today they would dismiss me.

No they wouldn't because that would be illegal.

[VHOED191006]

No they wouldn't because that would be illegal.
They don't care. They would still do it. Ask those 1,700 rampies.

[dragon man]

Well done Warren Mundine.

https://youtu.be/dqQNEa6cU8Q

[CaptCloudbuster]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1640x1421/img_1297_7a35544faf70d1ab7387417a3333dd4fafde2bc3.jpeg
Support a Treaty too Dragon?

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/-i-believe-in-treaties-warren-mundine-/102729922

[dragon man]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1640x1421/img_1297_7a35544faf70d1ab7387417a3333dd4fafde2bc3.jpeg
Support a Treaty too Dragon?

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/-i-believe-in-treaties-warren-mundine-/102729922


No I don’t however I admire him for not flying Qantas.

[dr dre]

No I don’t however I admire him for not flying Qantas.

Margaret Court famously boycotted them too in 2017, she didn’t start a trend however.

I wondered what frequent flyers would think of this campaign so I went to the Australian Frequent Flyer forum for QF and saw that this topic hasn’t generated any interest. It’s a non story for them, either as a positive or a negative.

It’s interesting Mundine made that announcement on Sky because I found a thread on the AFF forums where the frequent flyers were mostly supportive of QF’s decision to drop Sky TV from lounges.

[Ladloy]

It's almost as if Sky News creates a rage baiting echo chamber that the general public have no time for.

[standard unit]

Yes indeed. Who'd have known that those who crawl out from under their rocks to watch Sky News also hang out here.

Mike Carlton sums it up nicely I think.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x668/screenshot_2023_08_18_at_8_44_04_am_3695e97dcbc24c17aecf30ad 9224ee2cd884d457.png

[Ladloy]

Yes indeed. Who'd have known that those who crawl out from under their rocks to watch Sky News also hang out here.

Mike Carlton sums it up nicely I think.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x668/screenshot_2023_08_18_at_8_44_04_am_3695e97dcbc24c17aecf30ad 9224ee2cd884d457.png
5). Sky News talking points

They're the guys who say politics shouldn't be in aviation but chew your ear off at 2am over a man wearing a dress. I wish they would match their outrage to the IR changes over the last decade or so, stand up for their junior cohort by not voting in b scales or any steaming pile of **** EBAs that only benefit the top.


...But hey, let's talk about identity politics.

[MickG0105]

Mike Who? couldn't sum up two single digit numbers, unless the problem was presented to him in terms of drinks (now, so far for breakfast you've had three Martinis followed by two G&Ts ...).

Wholesale branding of better than half the voting public as racists or f***wits isn't going to move the needle on the referendum vote towards Yes, the exact opposite is more likely.

[kingRB]

Yes indeed. Who'd have known that those who crawl out from under their rocks to watch Sky News also hang out here.

Mike Carlton sums it up nicely I think.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1400x668/screenshot_2023_08_18_at_8_44_04_am_3695e97dcbc24c17aecf30ad 9224ee2cd884d457.png

hot takes nobody asked for.

Imagine thinking grouping people into racists and f*ckwits because they disagree with you is a balanced take. Not an echo chamber at all *face palm*

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Personally I’ve got no interest in Sky News and what it might have to say. But anyone who thinks describing those of opposing views as ‘racists’, ‘********’, ‘crawling out from under rocks’, etc, will do anything to attract people to your side of the argument is delusional, not to mention spectacularly arrogant.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

That's where debate is these days. It's polar. Either you agree with me, or I hate you. Since many times the pundits have no rational arguments to support their case, they just hide behind name calling.

[Ladloy]

Personally I’ve got no interest in Sky News and what it might have to say. But anyone who thinks describing those of opposing views as ‘racists’, ‘********’, ‘crawling out from under rocks’, etc, will do anything to attract people to your side of the argument is delusional, not to mention spectacularly arrogant.
Those on the No side have called the yes side racists too.

[Captain Dart]

...erm…would that be because they want to divide our country by race? :hmm:

[neville_nobody]

Option 5) Those folks who want to maintain some semblance to a democracy.

[Don Diego]

A powerful and compelling argument from Mr Carlton, easy to see who the F%@&wit is.

[dragon man]

FAVOURS FOR FAVOURSBy
Paul Zanetti (https://richardsonpost.com/author/paulzanetti/)
-
August 17, 2023
4829

https://richardsonpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Qantas-Yes.jpgBOYCOTT QANTASQANTAS the airline most Australians loved and trusted has become a mistrusted propaganda tool for the current PM under the current airline management, at expense to travelling Aussies.

Favours for favours.
While Australians are facing eye-watering air fares, our frequent flyer PM is cutting deals with outgoing QANTAS boss to benefit his family, himself and his political causes.

Recently the Air-banese government refused Qatar Airways’ application to operate 28 new flights each week between Doha and Sydney/Melbourne.

Had the government approved Qatar’s application, air travel competition would have placed downward pressure on air fares.

The NSW and Victorian governments supported Qatar’s new flights, as did the federal opposition, travel agents and tourism and consumer bodies – but not Air-bus Air-banese.

Co-incidentally, the PM’s 23-year-old uni student son Nathan Albanese is now a card-carrying member of the exclusive Qantas Chairman’s Lounge, which entitles the young man to free flight upgrades and bottomless champagne.

How does a uni student get a privileged membership to the exclusive Qantas Chairman’s Lounge?

QANTAS boss, Alan Joyce has confirmed the unhealthy cosiness with the current PM, telling a probing media, “It’s a commercial arrangement that we do. I’ve been good mates with Albo for some time.”

Joe Aston says in the Australian Financial Review: “As millions of Australians know and feel acutely, airfares today stand at record highs. Indeed, they are a key input of our rampant consumer price inflation. The national carrier, Qantas, is (happily for them) unable to sustain pre-COVID international capacity until FY25 due to a lack of available aircraft. In the meantime, it’s printing super-profit margins on its international flights (and domestic flights for that matter).

It smells, and what any mug punter understands is that you cannot accept extravagant favours from someone you regulate because that is plain as dog’s balls a conflict of interest. Indeed, the only reason Albanese kept it secret is because he knew it looked bad.

Each day, Qantas sells thousands of tickets on flights it never intends to operate. Each day when they are cancelled en masse, passengers and airports have zero redress (unlike in the European Union).

The Albanese government defunded the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s airline monitoring program in June with airfares at record highs and Qantas still the most complained about company in Australia. What possible justification could there be for such a decision?

When COVID-19 hit, Joyce convinced the Morrison government not to provide a $1.3 billion loan to Virgin, so his arch rival collapsed into administration. Joyce then set about extracting $2.7 billion of COVID-19 subsidies, none of which were repayable.

And now the Albanese government has knocked back Qatar Airways’ application to launch 28 new weekly flights between Doha and Australia. We knew how dodgy that decision was when the government tried to blame cavity searches in Qatar three years ago, but then Transport Minister Catherine King put it down to decarbonisation. Now it’s the Australian government conducting indefensible searches – they’re searching for a plausible explanation, but there isn’t one. It’s not me saying this, it’s the entire travel industry.”

QANTAS has now revealed its planes are a propaganda vehicle for Air-banese’s pet political project – a referendum to insert racism into the Australian Constitution.

When you fly QANTAS, you will know you will be locked into a flying billboard adorned with the word ‘Yes’.

If this is not a matter to be referred to the new Labor Federal Anti-Corruption Commission, then what is?

You and your family who feel strongly about a divisive national airline being used to promote racism, can vote with your wallet.

Boycott QANTAS.

[pppdrive]

As this is partly a Rumour network, could there possibly be any truth in the the thought that Joyce, using the vast amount of money he gained through his systematic destruction of the reputation of a once great Airline known as Qantas, be the 'financial' means by which Global Airlines will be seen dominating the future of world aviation. He already has the money and being the CEO of the remains of Qantas shows he has the experience to lead from the front. What more could Global need, of course, staff might be one thing but as we all know that's a minor problem for Joyce to fix. Set up a separate company/ies to employ fully experience staff such as Pilots, Engineers, Cabin Crew, Passenger Service Staff at a much lower pay scale than they have ever worked for before in the Industry. Obviously he can instil in these "new" sub-contracted staff the same loyalty and pride in the Company that they previously displayed whilst trying to 'save' their previous Airlines. Oh wait, hasn't he done exactly that before and failed, but I'm sure he'll be able to sort that minor problem out once he has got Global's 380s up in the air. Does he actually want any staff, as they'll just be a drain on the end of year financial statements anyway and really do nothing to help an Airline gain respect and more passengers. I'm sure our James from Global would be delighted to have Joyce help to bring his dreams to reality.
Do I actually believe anything I've said above? The answer is no, but then I never believed that Joyce could remove the 'service' part from a service based industry and the Airline still survive either, so I've already been proven wrong.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Qantas faces class action over pandemic travel credits treated as ‘$1bn in interest-free loans’Proceedings against airline ‘on behalf of hundreds of thousands’ of customers aims to force refunds for flight credits and compensation due to lost interest

Elias Visontay (https://www.theguardian.com/profile/elias-visontay) Transport and urban affairs reporter
Mon 21 Aug 2023 10.53 AEST

Qantas is facing a class action lawsuit over its refund policy for flights cancelled due to the pandemic, with lawyers alleging the airline’s use of travel credits allowed them to treat their customers’ money as more than “$1bn in interest-free loans”.On Monday, class action firm Echo Law announced it had lodged proceedings against Qantas in the federal court “on behalf of hundreds of thousands” of pandemic-affected travellers with an aim of forcing refunds for all remaining flights credits and compensation due to lost interest on customers’ money held by Qantas. The firm accuses Qantas of engaging in misleading or deceptive conduct in the way it communicated with its customers in early 2020 about their rights for flights that could not proceed due to Covid restrictions; and of breaching its own contract with customers by failing to provide cash refunds in a timely manner.

The class action also alleges Qantas has been “unjustly enriched by holding a very significant quantum of customer funds that it ought to have refunded” and that Qantas engaged in “a system or pattern of unconscionable conduct” in contravention of Australian consumer law. Andrew Paull, partner at the recently launched Echo Law, said while the aviation industry suffered major disruption from Covid-induced cancellations, “that is no excuse for Qantas to take advantage of its own customers and effectively treat them as providers of over $1 billion in interest-free loans”.

“Qantas is currently one of the world’s most profitable airlines and [we will allege] that profit has been built, in part, on funds it unlawfully retained from its customers,” he said.
“Qantas held on to its customers’ money and pushed out travel credits with strict conditions, which we allege it was not entitled to do. It now needs to be held accountable and refund that money with interest.”

Paull said while some of its customers suffered financially during the pandemic, Qantas “enjoyed the significant financial benefits of holding billions of dollars in customer payments including interest and reduced borrowing costs”. Paull was also critical of the flight credit scheme that many customers have used as a result, noting some have been required to pay the airline “more than their original booking to use their credits on new fares and have been pressured by the airline to do that or lose the value of their flight credits” Paull said any talk from Qantas about now refunding those yet to use their credits is “both too little and too late”.

“That money ought to have been automatically returned to customers, in most cases more than three years ago, and we are seeking both refunds of all remaining credits as well as compensation for the time customers have been out of pocket,” Paull said.

The class action is being backed by class action funder CASL, and the firm has issued a call for affected customers – even those who have already used Qantas flight credits – to register to join the lawsuit. Qantas was contacted for comment. In June, Qantas said about $400m in Covid credits were yet to be spent and 80% of these customers had the option of a refund if they preferred. Covid-related credits will expire on 31 December and need to be booked for trips taken through until December 2024. About $2bn of Covid credits were issued across the Qantas group – which includes budget carrier Jetstar – throughout the pandemic.

The class action announcement came as Qantas on Monday denied it had been engaging in misleading conduct on a separate matter, related to promoting a special return fare to London on its website that was scarcely available and which its own sales staff were unable to book for customers. (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/aug/21/qantas-accused-of-misleading-conduct-over-advertising-flight-own-sales-staff-could-not-find)

Qantas was the most complained about company to the ACCC in 2022-23. The airline is expected to announce a multibillion dollar profit at its results on Thursday.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/21/qantas-faces-class-action-over-pandemic-travel-credits-treated-as-1bn-in-interest-free-loans

[dragon man]

JOE ASTON. AUSTRALIAN OF THE YEAR



Print articleRear Window https://archive.md/pQT2N/c7303bb2dd0a7b2cdb147084087488e9dac3a9aa.pngAlan Joyce’s lines aren’t landing any moreIn 126 days, Qantas is set to legally steal approximately half a billion dollars from its customers.
Joe Aston (https://archive.md/o/pQT2N/https://www.afr.com/by/joe-aston-hveym)ColumnistAug 27, 2023 – 7.30pm
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After 15 years at the controls of Qantas, having mastered the performance art of gaslighting the nation, Thursday was the final outing of Alan Joyce’s full-court press.
All of his delusions were on display as the airline revealed – and Joyce feverishly image-managed – its record $2.47 billion pre-tax profit for 2023. https://archive.md/pQT2N/e0bb8668f0d2725587c415f1b626828593db1fba.webp Hero myth: Qantas CEO Alan Joyce presents his final set of full-year results on August 24. Dion Georgopoulos He persisted with the utter fallacy that “My intent was to [retire] before COVID but extended to get the company through”. It is a matter of public record (https://archive.md/o/pQT2N/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/qantas-ceo-to-keep-job-amid-reshuffle-20190501-p51ivy) that nine months before COVID struck, the Qantas board extended Joyce’s tenure by “at least” three years. Sticking around made him another $30 million.
“We were 11 weeks from bankruptcy,” he claimed anew. This is another raging falsehood. When COVID hit in March 2020, Qantas had nearly $2 billion in cash and $5 billion in unencumbered assets it could borrow against. The capital markets were open, so Joyce could issue equity or raise debt (he did both, as well as begging money off the government). The idea that Qantas was ever facing liquidation is sheer make-believe.
This fabrication is a key pillar of Joyce’s hero myth. It is absolutely central to the fable in which he saved Qantas. Joyce is a trained mathematician – he understands the weight of numbers. He knows that if he repeats this line sufficiently often, people will adopt it as fact – as they surely have
Saying “11 weeks” also gilds it with the hint of precision, which makes the lie sound credible. If Qantas was truly 77 days from extinction, where was that warning in its market announcements of the day? Actually, Joyce told the ASX on March 10, 2020, “We’re in a good position to ride this out.”
Joyce also claimed on Thursday that allowing his archrival Qatar Airways to launch 28 new flights per week to Australia “could actually distort the market”. Which market is that? The market in which the Australian dollar is weak, global travel demand is roaring but Qantas International charges passengers 52 per cent more by flying 28 per cent less than it did before COVID? Qatar’s flights could distort the market that’s rigged in Alan’s favour and we can’t have that.
Qantas even asserted that “in inflation adjusted terms … international fares are [now] 10 per cent higher [than pre-COVID].” Inflation adjusted! Do Qantas customers get to pay the inflation-adjusted price in Alan’s magical world (https://archive.md/o/pQT2N/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-helsinki-final-act-20230522-p5dael)?Unverifiable figuresQantas international fares (or revenue per kilometre flown) over the last six months are up 52 per cent versus 2019, yet in the same period, Australia’s cumulative inflation was 16 per cent. That’s a 36 per cent increase in inflation-adjusted terms, so how does Qantas get 10 per cent? By using unreleased, unverifiable figures limited to the fourth quarter, it turns out.
We’re surprised Joyce didn’t use Argentinian inflation for his calculation. That would square with his historical patterns of reasoning. “When you consider this in Zimbabwean dollar terms, I’m really not shafting you that badly.”
“I’m still a very large shareholder in Qantas and I more than meet the minimum … level that the CEO is expected to hold,” Joyce said next. Literally any day now, he will receive 3.1 million Qantas shares for which he paid nothing – his glorious golden handshake.
But on June 1, Joyce sold 92 per cent of the Qantas shares he owned, raising $17 million (to buy an apartment that only cost $9 million) and taking him well below his minimum shareholding requirement. Qantas chairman Richard Goyder allowed this like he’s allowed everything else.
Joyce dumping his Qantas stake before he’s even left – more than anything else – lights up the discrepancy between what he says and what he does. Joyce has more than enough other wealth with which to fund an apartment. Why would he sell his Qantas shares if he genuinely believed that “the future for Qantas has never looked better”?
But Joyce reserved his biggest deception for his portrayal of the great Qantas flight credit racket (https://archive.md/o/pQT2N/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/the-great-qantas-flight-credit-racket-20230327-p5cvpp). “What we’ve now done is we’ve put a dedicated concierge line in. The call centre now, yesterday, was three minutes to get through and there’s a dedicated set of experts that can help you get your credits. We recognise that … we didn’t get it right and we needed to fix it and the important thing is, we did fix it … we’ve only got $370 million of credits left … and we’d rather have those credits at zero by the end of the year.”
Let’s just back up a second. The Qantas Group disclosed “total COVID travel credits of $800 million” at December 31 last year. All remaining unused credits will expire on December 31 this year.
On June 26, the company announced “around $400 million in COVID credits now remaining for Qantas customers in Australia.” That is, their updated balance, which [i]appeared to have fallen, actually excluded Qantas customers outside Australia and excluded all Jetstar customers. The sneakiness – the bad faith – of this company never ceases to astonish.
The remaining $370 million Joyce cited on Thursday still excludes Jetstar customers and Qantas customers outside Australia (we asked Qantas for the full number, but the company refused to provide it). This means two things: firstly, that the total balance of credits is likely greater than $500 million; and secondly, that only around $30 million of credits have been redeemed in the two months since Qantas declared they’re now so easy to claim back.
What a performance by Joyce. “Ring us and in three minutes flat, you’ll have your money.” If that were really true, why isn’t the balance budging? Joyce must be issuing the refunds in Argentinian pesos.Class actionWhy hasn’t Qantas automatically refunded the balance owing to any customer’s credit card that is yet to expire? Or why can’t Qantas post a bank cheque to every customer it has a mailing address for (given most are members of its Frequent Flyer program)? If the cheque is returned, so be it. Why can’t Qantas transfer the money into the lost super system administered by the Australian Taxation Office? The answer: because any of that might actually work.
These credits are now the subject of a class action (https://archive.md/o/pQT2N/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/qantas-sued-over-misleading-flight-credits-refunds-20230821-p5dy5o), as they should be.
Whenever there’s a civil disturbance, people go out and start looting. Corporations do it too and that’s clearly what Qantas did during COVID. They backed up their truck, drove it through the plate glass window of the Australian public and loaded up on our money. These are not trivial amounts for people. Thirty-eight per cent of the credits are over $500.
Joyce and Vanessa Hudson understand behavioural psychology – they understand that customers give up if Qantas makes it hard enough and they can dehumanise their theft by calling it “breakage”. They’ve charged their customers without providing a service and are now on the brink of confiscating their money. How is this any different to the fees for no service scandal over which AMP and National Australia Bank paid tens of millions in fines only after being excoriated by a royal commission?
In 126 days, Qantas is going to legally steal approximately half a billion dollars from its customers. It is staggering. Joyce will be retired in Antarctica but that massive haul will drop straight into Hudson’s first half-year result as pure profit. That’s what Joyce really meant when he said the future has never looked better! What a ball-tearing result for him to sell the rest of his shares into.
Will the ACCC do nothing? Will Minister for Qantas Catherine Kingand Prime Minister Anthony Albanese do nothing? You bet they will.
Joyce ended his press conference on Thursday more than 20 minutes early with a queue of reporters still waiting to ask their questions. He is clearly rattled. He’s endured intense scrutiny before but always sailed through and won the argument of the day. His lines aren’t landing anymore, he’s lost the mob, and that’s because nowadays, he punches down at Qantas customers and he punches down at Australian taxpayers.
That’s why the facade is cracking. Alan still sings Hero in the shower. He still pulls his made-to-measure suit over his Superman costume each morning. But deep down he knows the Australian public no longer believes him.
Herein lies the danger of letting power intoxicate you, of spending years unchallenged by views that don’t reinforce your own. When you inevitably emerge from your fever dream, reality’s no picnic.

[Lead Balloon]

Joyce fronting a Parliamentary Committee now, at this: link (https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/LiveMediaPlayer?vID={72535EC9-AF1E-45E5-8330-E02DDB6F4BA0}).

[PoppaJo]

Some of these Senators sound like they work for Sky News. Who is that idiot that is asking these Qatar European questions? She has no idea whatsoever.

Sheldon certainly getting stuck into him.

[dragon man]

Is there a problem with Sky news?

[Ladloy]

Is there a problem with Sky news?
It's not news, it's just rage bait and opinion pieces for over 60s.

[dragon man]

It's not news, it's just rage bait and opinion pieces for over 60s.


And the ABC and Nine news outlets are rage bait and opinion pieces for the under 60s then I assume.

[KRUSTY 34]

The destruction of the livelihoods of 1700 hard working Aussies along with their families during COVID particularly galls me. Qantas was found guilty in the Fair Work Commission of unfairly dismissing these people, and what did the Commision do?

Issued a token fine to QF and threw these people to the wolves!

[framer]

Why does it make me feel kindy queasy when each Senator declares their Chairman’s lounge membership then immediately feigns moral outrage at Joyce?
Is it possible that none of the Senators see the conflict?

[Ladloy]

And the ABC and Nine news outlets are rage bait and opinion pieces for the under 60s then I assume.
Well I know the ABC has had many reviews into their bias under the LNP government and they have found nothing of the sort. Ida has definitely dumbed down ABC news since taking the chair. There's a reason Newscorp profits dropped 75% last FY.

As for Nine, I can't say I have knowingly consumed any of their media content in years.

[Stationair8]

And how many politicians will hand back their Chairman’s lounge membership?

[brokenagain]

It seems like the Senators may have read the Joe Aston article before the hearing, given the line of questioning regarding the missing Jetstar and international credits. It was great watching him squirm.

The disgusting little Irishman makes me shudder every time he opens his mouth. Hudson certainly has her work cut out for her gaining back the previous QF reputation amongst both the travelling public and employees. It’s going to be a tough ask though.

[aussieflyboy]

An accountant running a business only cares about one thing and it ain’t people, reputation or customers!

[CaptCloudbuster]

And how many politicians will hand back their Chairman’s lounge membership?

Look at this Political hypocrite. Denounced QF after the YES23 backing. Back after how many days protest?


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1488x1269/img_1334_5e9afba96207fcd8f04650a276d3db90b295f3af.jpeg




https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1373x642/img_1333_7300b721cb97d17d6a149d80e270bde16db3469a.jpeg

[Impress to inflate]

I watched that slippy snake being questioned in the Senate yesterday and NOT answering the questions. He was constantly asked a direct question and asked to give a Yes/No answer but wriggled out. If I was the chair, I would have hoofed him out for not answering a direct question. I think the board has its hands over its ears and eyes and not responding to this !diot. The faster this f00l is out, the better.

No wonder anything happens when every MP and Senator is a member of the Chairmans Lounge therefor in the Slippery Snakes back pocket

[Lead Balloon]

The 'grilling' was a whipping with wet lettuce. You wouldn't know it - because there's bi-partisan fear of how each 'side' could use it against the other - but the Parliament has power to summons people, lock them up for contempt if they don't front, to demand that people provide information, documents and answers to questions, and to lock them up for contempt if the information, documents or answers are not provided. But it's deteriorated to mere rhetorical fist waving and Joyce behaved accordingly, having condescended to make himself available to pretend to answer questions.

[PoppaJo]

Yes see the Chairmans lounge bit. Having all these fools then ‘declare’ they are members, subject was then swiftly changed by the chair who then thanked Alan for his CP Lounge access to pollies, listen for the faint ‘im a member too’ in the background…… idiots. I noted the smirk soon after on AJs face.

They want the cake and they want to eat it too.

[SIUYA]

“I’ve got privacy issues where we will not comment on who’s in who’s been offered (a membership)...I will not be making any comments, or confirming or denying it.” – Alan Joyce.

The Man on the Clapham Omnibus could reasonably have assumed that the response represented an ‘Up Yours’ refusal to provide any comment about QF managerial commitment (or otherwise) to the ethical quality of decisions, actions and relationships regarding the awarding of Chairman’s Lounge memberships by QF.

There’s an old saying that 'A fish rots from the head down', and when an organisation fails, leadership of the organisation is the root cause.

That was certainly on display at yesterday’s Senate hearing. :mad:
​​​​​​​

[RodH]

This is a good read of how the " Leprechaun " has reaped obscenely monstrous benefits from the " Pot of Gold at the end of the Rainbow "

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-29/qantas-boss-alan-joyce-profit-taxes-competition-qatar/102783912

[dr dre]

Look at this Political hypocrite. Denounced QF after the YES23 backing. Back after how many days protest?


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1488x1269/img_1334_5e9afba96207fcd8f04650a276d3db90b295f3af.jpeg




https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1373x642/img_1333_7300b721cb97d17d6a149d80e270bde16db3469a.jpeg


His "boycott" was as effective as Margaret Court's, or the anti-vaxxer boycott, or all of these boycotts which have never affected revenue.

[Rataxes]

The destruction of the livelihoods of 1700 hard working Aussies along with their families during COVID particularly galls me. Qantas was found guilty in the Fair Work Commission of unfairly dismissing these people, and what did the Commision do?

Issued a token fine to QF and threw these people to the wolves!
It is not unreasonable to assume that you voted for him. He wouldn't even tell you what he was going to do but that you should just vote for him. Even if you didn't place him first if you didn't place him low enough or if you gave the wrong other party a 1 then you're partly to blame.

I say "you" rhetorically however there's usually never a shortage of voters complaining of him to whom they gave their ill-thought out vote.

[Rataxes]

Look at this Political hypocrite. Denounced QF after the YES23 backing. Back after how many days protest?

I don't understand. He was going to fly with Qantas but changed his plan to fly with Virgin. How does that make him a hypocrite? Did he change back to Qantas? If so I must've missed that part.

[CaptCloudbuster]

I don't understand. He was going to fly with Qantas but changed his plan to fly with Virgin. How does that make him a hypocrite? Did he change back to Qantas? If so I must've missed that part.

He’s a hypocrite. Like all Pollies he travels on QF and enjoys Business Class & Lounge access courtesy of us the taxpayers. To make a huge stand against QF he announces loudly & proudly he will not continue using a Company who has the audacity to promote a YES to the referendum. You see, he’s a loud and proud NO.🙄 His “principled “ stand started Aug 17th (see news date) and ended 9 days later on 26th (see twitter post). His followers are supposed to be impressed he wore his NO shirt in the club and on board.

[Rataxes]

He’s a hypocrite. Like all Pollies he travels on QF and enjoys Business Class & Lounge access courtesy of us the taxpayers. To make a huge stand against QF he announces loudly & proudly he will not continue using a Company who has the audacity to promote a YES to the referendum. You see, he’s a loud and proud NO.🙄 His “principled “ stand started Aug 17th (see news date) and ended 9 days later on 26th (see twitter post). His followers are supposed to be impressed he wore his NO shirt in the club and on board.
Ah yes I see the date and comment. It does seem a little confused. Still, he identifies as Aboriginal and he knows what he wants and doesn't want. Doesn't seem quite right for you or I (both non-Aboriginal presumably) to be telling him how he should feel about this so-called voice. He obviously knows what it's about and feels it's the wrong thing for him and his. Why shouldn't he be proud of his stand?

Not a bad move wearing his No shirt in the lounge though. Good on him. I look forward to seeing more No shirts around the place as the date draws near.

I don't believe he's a 'pollie' though so it may not be the gov't paying for his travel. Maybe the advocacy group he works for pays for his campaign travel and they have a deal with Qantas and insist he pulls his head in. Maybe his post re Qantas and the lounge was to let everyone know before they get the wrong idea. You don't know.

In the bigger scheme of things his "hypocrisy" pales into insignificance beside that of Albo and Joyce, a love written in the stars. Or at least the sky.

[dragon man]

The next instalment, they just keep getting better and better.
Rear Window https://archive.md/EYAEa/c7303bb2dd0a7b2cdb147084087488e9dac3a9aa.pngQantas’ grand theft kleptoJoe Aston (https://archive.md/o/EYAEa/https://www.afr.com/by/joe-aston-hveym)ColumnistAug 29, 2023 – 7.15pm
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Monday was a red-letter day for the Qantas-Labor national governing coalition, with federal ministers yet again melting into puddles as they attempted to justify the Joyce-Albanese government’s decision to block Qatar Airways from launching 28 new flights per week into Australia.
Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones was stoned on truth serum when he told reporters (https://archive.md/o/EYAEa/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/record-qantas-profit-good-news-in-the-national-interest-labor-20230828-p5dzx5) that Qantas – whose international division has been charging customers 52 per cent more by flying 28 per cent less (https://archive.md/o/EYAEa/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-lines-aren-t-landing-anymore-20230827-p5dzt2) than pre-COVID – is receiving sovereign protection on its Europe and UK routes to avoid “design(ing) our markets in a way which will make it unsustainable for the existing Australian-based carrier.” https://archive.md/EYAEa/f430750b1e8d147feffe88b78b67f7a8e593fcc1.webp Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce at the Senate committee hearing. Screenshot Catherine King, the Minister for Qantas (https://archive.md/o/EYAEa/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/minister-for-qantas-catherine-king-crashes-on-take-off-20230816-p5dx3y), then held her own doorstop and chided, “Well, I wouldn’t have used the same words that Stephen did.”
It was a little rich of King to be huffy. She’s already provided four different reasons of her own for rejecting Qatar’s application, none of which made any more sense than this one.
“When you say you wouldn’t have used those words,” one journalist pressed, “has [Jones] got the wrong end of the stick? Do you disagree with what he said?
“No, no, I think that you should read his full transcript – his transcript in full,” King said.
It’s a pity Jones’ office declined to release a transcript (as it does for every other interview) and referred all questions on the matter back to King’s office!
Then came the main event, Alan Joyce’s first testimony under oath in nearly a decade. And what a performance it was.
Joyce is a data bomber and a black belt ninja of self-removal. When directed to his specific actions and their consequences, he zooms out to spout macro-waffle, droning like an auctioneer, snowing his questioners in a blizzard of selective numbers and irrelevant positives.
Joyce answers the questions he wishes he was asked, or answers previous questions instead of the one at hand. The more personal the question, the more impersonal the response. The more concrete the question, the more abstract the rejoinder. The more simple and verifiable the question, the more complex and unprovable the riposte.
He’s a fatigue negotiator. He talks around everything. “Let me address your question by reframing it. Forget this, you’ve got to understand that.” Every confronting truth is recast as a digestible ego fantasy. He’ll keep repeating his rehearsed assertions no matter how many times they’re proven to be false.
Joyce told 7:30 on Thursday that “when the company does badly, I don’t get paid, so the three years of COVID is an example, no bonuses were paid.” Yet on Monday, Joyce admitted in evidence that this month, he is finally being paid one million Qantas shares (worth $6 million) as his long-term bonus for the years 2020, 2021 and 2022 (https://archive.md/o/EYAEa/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-24m-golden-parachute-20230329-p5cwgc), over which Qantas posted total losses of $6.3 billion.
Senator Bridget McKenzie put it to him that, “In actual fact, you’ve just been able to defer [your long-term] bonus until it’s able to be realised… you actually set aside your bonuses, so you can take them later.”
Joyce responded, “That’s not true senator!” , before setting off on a nonsensical ramble about his base salary and his short-term bonus. He inhales reality distortion like the rest of us do oxygen.
You can’t converse with Joyce because he’s never really in a conversation. He’s talking to himself. He’s so detached, so insulated, from normal social reciprocity that it’s virtually impossible for anyone to engage him meaningfully.
Openly contemptuous of Joyce and highly attuned to his bulldozing, the senators did a mighty job of interrupting his implacable cognitive firewall. When you’ve got Jane Hume and Tony Sheldon on a unity ticket against you, you know things are bad.
Would you take 90 minutes of nationally televised ridicule from half a dozen senators in return for $24 million a year? Any day of the week! The hourly rate of pay for the indignity is positively sensational.
Joyce and his two courtiers were also on a unity ticket; a unity ticket to obfuscate. His courtiers even aped their emperor’s delusion.
“There’s been no lack of transparency there,” claimed Andrew McGinnes, the most over-promoted PR weasel in corporate Australia, before the trio spent more than five minutes feigning an inability to provide the remaining total balance of COVID travel credits owing to Qantas and Jetstar customers.
Sheldon had to wrench the secret Jetstar balance – of “around $100 million” – out of Jetstar CEO Steph Tully like wisdom teeth. She’ll be in the deep freezer with Joyce for weeks for that careless moment of honesty.
There’s also more than $50 million – though McGinnes won’t say exactly how much – owing to Qantas customers outside Australia.
Joyce has been saying since Thursday that the balance is $370 million, and he’s now forced to admit that, actually, it’s more than $520 million. Hey, you got me! If this isn’t the most untrustworthy company in Australia, name me a worse one.
Tully added that “about 50 per cent of that [$100 million of Jetstar credits] is held by people and it’s less than $100 [per person] so you can imagine the context of contacting those customers to use that amount.” She almost flapped her hand as if to say: “Let them eat cake.”
Hang on a moment. At the same hearing, Alan Joyce pontificated (again) about “the democratisation of air travel”, which he says he personally ushered in as the first CEO of Jetstar. Joycey’s a dead set ripper bloke because he’s delivered “200 million airfares under $100.”
Think about the logical incoherence here. As supporting data for his self-mythologising, $100 really matters. It’ll buy you a terrific holiday, all thanks to Alan.
Yet when he owes a customer $100 it’s not even worth following up. It’s certainly not worth disclosing. He democratised airfares but he’s sure as hell not going to democratise refunds!
What Tully has also admitted here is that Jetstar owes money to at least500,000 Australians. This is a mass theft event (https://archive.md/o/EYAEa/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-lines-aren-t-landing-anymore-20230827-p5dzt2).
“Our absolute goal is that there’s zero credit left by the end of December,” she said.
How about the rampant insincerity of saying we want the balance at zero but we can’t tell you what the balance is. We’ll provide that answer on notice in three weeks’ time, and then there’ll only be 104 days left until we get to trouser that balance as profit. $520 million of expired credits would add 40 per cent to the company’s next half-year profit in February. A proper bonanza.
“We’ve taken out full-page ads reminding people how to claim a credit or refund … so there is absolutely a lot of effort going on,” McGinnes whined.
Did you see that Qantas ad – “Introducing the new Find My Credit tool” – at half-time during the Matildas’ World Cup semi-final? Of course you didn’t.
Instead, you endured the dire Qantas commercial where some 25-year-old gets his siblings to pool $15,000 for a Business Class ticket home from Tokyo (on a 21-year-old A330 held together with duct tape) so the little twerp can haunt his mum’s birthday party. Who else identifies?
Let’s be real here. Qantas is making a noisy show of trying to reunite people with their money, but that’s all it is – a performance. If Qantas was really trying, the remaining balance would be declining at a far greater rate than the current $15 million a month.
The balance is depleting so slowly because you cannot call up and get a refund in three minutes. In most cases, you’ll be told you can’t get a refund, that you can only use the credit to book a flight, which is now double the price you paid originally. You’ll even be told Qantas will charge you a $99 processing fee to book it.
That’s your scenario if you’re a Platinum Frequent Flyer calling Qantas. If you’re Cheryl from Dapto calling Jetstar, don’t even bother.
To this day, Qantas is making it as difficult as they possibly can. A kleptomaniac at scale, a class action waiting to happen. That’s the Spirit of Australia.

[dragon man]

The press has now taken to Joyce big time and about time.
Opinion https://archive.md/DgYio/538bb67ce2e278a85f8ed0c3421cf9b993318c87.pngQantas’ enviable dominance now comes with a big costVirgin’s political fight back against Qantas is gaining traction with a community irritated by high fares, poor service and record profits.
Jennifer Hewett (https://archive.md/o/DgYio/https://www.afr.com/by/jennifer-hewett-j7gc3)ColumnistAug 29, 2023 – 6.21pm
Save

Share
Jayne Hrdlicka may not be nearly as well known as Alan Joyce, but she’s finally been able to extract political revenge for the imbalance.
The ability of the Virgin chief executive to leverage community irritation about high airfares and reduced service is clearly increasing the turbulence for both the Albanese government and Qantas.
Qantas dismisses Hrdlicka’s claim that international airfares would be much cheaper if only Virgin’s partner airline Qatar had been granted its request for 28 additional flights a week. https://archive.md/DgYio/c0099a918137bc856cb15e6ae25c2755e4c01dc8.webp The bon homie between Qantas and the Prime Minister is coming under increasing scrutiny. David Rowe But the government’s various clumsy, contradictory explanations about its rationale for blocking Qatar’s application won’t persuade anyone trying to book a flight. That includes the most recent offering from Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones describing Qantas’ $2.5 billion profit as a “good news story” – as opposed to another flashpoint for passenger anger and political cynicism.
“A disappointing statement,” muttered Hrdlicka, as she urged a review of the decision to “get the facts on the table.” Not that most people understand complex bilateral negotiations over international landing rights or protection from competition regularly given to national carriers. They do understand repeated domestic flight cancellations and international fares that have gone up by 50 per cent since COVID – just when they are so keen to travel.
It makes them far more responsive to any suggestion the government is willing to sacrifice their best interests by doing a deal with Qantas to crimp the competition. Even the Coalition is finding rare political traction in its pursuit of Labor over the “protection racket”.
Hrdlicka attracted headlines for suggesting on radio, for example, that airfares could be up to 40 per cent cheaper (https://archive.md/o/DgYio/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/virgin-says-qatar-would-cut-fares-to-europe-by-a-third-20230829-p5e06h) if Qatar was permitted one more flight a day to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth. The airline later clarified this percentage was 40 per cent of the 50 per cent increase in international airfares, making the improvement more like 20 per cent – and with no promises of an impact on domestic fares.
But such details register less with an annoyed public than last week’s announcement of record Qantas group profits, (https://archive.md/o/DgYio/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/defiant-joyce-is-flying-high-but-turbulence-is-rising-20230822-p5dyna) including a big jump in its domestic profit margin from 12.1 per cent to 18.2 per cent.
Virgin is also making plenty of money again, of course, following years of financial losses and its collapse into administration at the start of COVID. Yet, this has been achieved more quietly given the airline remains in private hands after a planned IPO this year was indefinitely delayed.
Virgin’s profit margin is in the high single digits, and it deliberately keeps its fares on the busy Brisbane Melbourne Sydney route around 30 per cent lower than Qantas on average. Nor do Virgin’s own regular flight cancellations and unredeemed flight credits (https://archive.md/o/DgYio/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/qantas-reveals-another-100m-in-flight-credits-20230828-p5e03a) seem to spark the same level of resentment.
To Joyce’s frustration (https://archive.md/o/DgYio/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/qantas-boss-defends-fares-profits-competition-in-senate-clash-20230828-p5dzxg), it means Qantas’ enviable market dominance, shareholder returns, surging share price and popularity with analysts now come with a big cost in terms of community perception and reputation.
Under current flying conditions, even Hrdlicka’s more cautious style in justifying delays and promoting Virgin’s honest intentions seems to play better than Joyce’s ebullient swagger about Qantas’ superior performance.
As he exits a tired fleet with an additional $24 million in his luxury hand luggage (https://archive.md/o/DgYio/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-24m-golden-parachute-20230329-p5cwgc), Joyce’s previous ability to sell the Qantas good news story has instead become a story symbolising corporate greed rather than consumer interests – or the national interest. https://archive.md/DgYio/62f04c86884e2226bf463cf7e87b5ec42480f176.webp Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is thought to have overruled his Transport Minister over the extra Qatar flights, which Qantas boss Alan Joyce admitted lobbying against. David Rowe That’s a remarkable turnaround from the sentimental national embrace traditionally afforded Qantas. New boss Vanessa Hudson will be under pressure to renovate the airline’s reputation as well as its ageing planes.
Flight Centre chief executive Graham Turner turned up that pressure Tuesday, demanding the government provide a reason for blocking Qatar when more capacity was clearly needed.
That’s particularly awkward to explain when the entire travel industry knows various government departments and agencies, including the department of transport, supported Qatar’s proposal for increased flights.
“In the travel industry ... it’s generally felt that [Transport Minister] Catherine King was overruled or her department was overruled from higher up in the Labor government,” Turner told Sky on Tuesday.
“It is generally suggested that it was probably the PM, and it’d be interesting to hear from both Catherine King and the PM whether that’s how it happened.”
Neither King nor Albanese seem to think this is at all interesting. King has been reduced to repeating the line the decision on Qatar was taken in the national interest while simultaneously scolding Qantas for “needing to do better”.
According to a Qantas spokesman, Joyce has regular conversations with Anthony Albanese – just as he has had with every Prime Minister over the years and as is natural for the boss of the national carrier.
According to Hrdlicka, there’s been no response to Virgin’s repeated requests for a meeting with Albanese.
Everyone from crossbencher David Pocock to ANZ chief executive Shayne Elliott – struggling with his own competition approvals over Suncorp bank – question Canberra’s logic. It certainly jars with Jim Chalmers’ review of competition policy: aviation is excluded.
Virgin argues Qantas’ claim (https://archive.md/o/DgYio/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/record-qantas-profit-good-news-in-the-national-interest-labor-20230828-p5dzx5) it only has 18 per cent of the international market is misleading given Qantas and its partner Emirates have 43 per cent of the highly lucrative Australia Europe route via the Middle East. That’s double the percentage of Virgin and its partners, including Qatar with its broad range of direct flights to European cities.
Virgin’s self-interest is obvious. Any increase in Qatar’s landing rights would increase its ability to fly those passengers domestically.
It would also reassure Australians about its ability to offer international service through partner airlines like Qatar. But the key to Hrdlicka’s ability to make herself heard is the damage the government, and Qantas, have done to their own credibility.

[SIUYA]

The adverse comments about Qantas and its egregious behavior are ramping up ....

Qantas and Australia's skies clouded by soaring airfares, anti-competitive behaviour, and nepotism

ROGER MONTGOMERY

https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/qantas-and-australia-s-skies-clouded-by-soaring-airfares-anti-competitive-behaviour-and-nepotism

The skies above Australia have long symbolised freedom, exploration, and connection. Yet, in recent years, these skies have become shrouded in clouds of anti-competitive behaviour, sky-high airfares, and nepotism, threatening the very essence of Australia's aviation industry.

Once a source of national pride, Qantas, the national carrier, has evolved into an emblem of profit-driven opportunism, leaving millions of Australians to bear the brunt of exorbitant fares and diminished customer service.

Amidst this disheartening scenario, the questionable ties between Qantas' Chief Executive Officer and senior Government figures further highlight the alarming extent to which vested interests have taken precedence over the well-being of the nation's people.

As airfares soar to unprecedented heights – this week’s Qantas financial results indicate that average airfares are 38 per cent higher than before the COVID-19 pandemic and 30 per cent higher than last year – Australians face the harsh reality of exorbitant travel costs.

The Qantas Group, once renowned for its commitment to serving the public, now reaps super-profit margins at the expense of both domestic and international travellers.

The COVID-19 pandemic only exacerbated the issue, with the airline industry's challenges providing Qantas with a reason to increase prices while reducing the quality of service.

Despite the plight of Australia’s citizens, the Australian Government's actions have perplexingly favoured Qantas' interests. After taxpayers extended $2.7 billion to Qantas during the COVID-19 pandemic, [NP1] the airline returned the favour by keeping the money, sacking 12.5 per cent of its workforce and jacking up airfares to unprecedented levels.

Qantas claims it is unable to provide pre-COVID levels of international capacity for at least another year, due to a lack of aircraft. But let's keep in mind its CEO, who has been at the helm for 15 years, has had every chance to buy planes but has passed that expensive and profit-crushing job to the next CEO. In the meantime, unsurprisingly, Qantas has just reported colossal profit margins.

Earlier this year, relief appeared in sight. Middle Eastern airline, Qatar Airways applied to operate an additional 28 weekly flights between Doha in Qatar and Sydney and Melbourne. Notably, Qatar was one of only two airlines that never stopped repatriating Australians during the pandemic. The Albanese Government’s Transport Minister, Catherine King, however, refused that application, raising questions about the extent of Qantas' potential influence over governmental decisions.

As has been reported elsewhere, Catherine King has demonstrated a pattern of decisions favouring Qantas, arguably at the expense of democracy, equity and impartiality. In June 2020, then-Treasurer Josh Frydenberg directed our competition watchdog, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), to monitor and report on the domestic airline industry for three years. This year ACCC Chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb, requested funding from the Government to continue that work, given “a lack of effective competition... has resulted in higher airfares and poorer service”. Catherine King refused that funding.

Most recently, the ACCC told The Australian Financial Review that Qantas was the most complained about company in Australia in the year to 30 June 2023.

King’s rejection of Qatar’s application, originally on the back of an inexplicable conflation of air rights and a detestable but unrelated incident involving the Qatar police, showcases the Government's eagerness to accommodate Qantas' wishes over the interests of Australian consumers and the broader economy.

As an aside, more recently, King has cited ‘decarbonising the transport sector’ as her reason for blocking Qatar Airways.

How can Qantas have such a stranglehold of influence on a Government that is meant to represent those who voted it into power?

Qantas' anti-competitive behaviour and its consequences

Qantas’ anti-competitive behaviour is evident in that stifle competition. The Qantas-Emirates alliance, for instance, effectively operates as a single entity, reaping the benefits of reduced competition and monopolistic pricing. The alarming fact that Qantas and Emirates boast over 50 per cent market share on flights between Australia and the UK, and more than 30 per cent market share between Australia and Europe underscores the dire need for increased competition in the aviation sector.

The adverse impact of Qantas' anti-competitive practices on airfares cannot be understated. By stifling competition, Qantas maintains the ability to set exorbitant prices that Australian travellers are forced to pay. These practices not only lead to record-high airfares but also deter potential tourists from visiting Australia due to inflated travel costs.

According to leading investment blog, MacroBusiness, “Catherine King recently argued the additional Qatar flights were not in Australia’s “national interest” and would have reduced jobs for Australians – a claim rejected by the tourism and aviation industries.”

While some argue safeguarding Qantas protects jobs, they forget the job cuts Qantas has already made. They also ignore the positive benefits more affordable travel would have on our skills shortage and revenue for the tourism sector. Just ask the storekeepers in the tourist-reliant town of Kuranda, Queensland, for example.

In Qantas’ latest results, analysts noted; “Qantas expects to recover the cost of recent increases in A$ jet fuel by altering capacity, notably domestic capacity for 1H24 has been cut to 103% from 108% of pre-COVID.” In other words, not only does Qantas defend egregious airfares by leaning on our Government to block reasonable competition, but it also cuts its own capacity after doing so.

Nepotism and cronyism: Qantas and the Prime Minister

The widely reported close relationship between Qantas' CEO Alan Joyce and Prime Minister Anthony Albanese raises eyebrows and fuels concerns of nepotism and cronyism. The alleged granting of a privileged membership to the Qantas Chairman's Lounge for the Prime Minister's 23-year-old son perhaps epitomises the intertwining of political power and corporate favours. This seemingly small gesture may cast a shadow on the Prime Minister's integrity. It also underscores the lengths to which Qantas may have infiltrated the highest echelons of power, to reinforce its self-interest.

Furthermore, the Prime Minister's apparent unswerving support for Qantas, despite its questionable practices, raises concerns about whether public officials are truly representing the interests of the Australian people or catering to the demands of corporate entities who can in turn, grant them favours. The Qantas-Emirates alliance, further highlights the seemingly unbreakable bond between political power and corporate interests.

Australia's aviation industry is at a crossroads, thanks in part to the release of Qantas’ latest annual profit announcement. Inflated airfares and anti-competitive behaviour are reflected in the company’s record results. The actions of Qantas, under the helm of its CEO, coupled with the alarming alignment of political and corporate interests, have led to a scenario where the interests of Australians at least appear to be sacrificed for the benefit of a select few.

The future vision for Australia's skies should be one of fairness, competition, and accessibility, where air travel remains a source of pride and connection for all Australians. It is high time the Government re-evaluates its relationship with Qantas and takes meaningful steps to ensure a transparent and equitable aviation landscape.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

It’s becoming quite obvious now that this Qatar thing is cash for comment. Qatar could lower airfares tomorrow if they chose, but they don’t. You know why, because it’s all BS, and they are paying media outlets to spread that BS. Qantas may not be the bastion of honesty, but please, Qatar put your money where your mouth is, cut your fares in half today.

[dr dre]

The skies above Australia have long symbolised freedom, exploration, and connection.

Hahahah. No they haven’t. There’s always been an element of protectionism and government intervention in the Australian market, and not just from the Australian government. QF’s main international competitors are either state owned, partially state funded or receive very generous support and protectionism from their own government.

It’s a bit rich for QR to claim that the Australian government is interfering in the market to aid their own airline, it’s the government of Qatar that bankrolled QR to fly near empty 777s around the world during Covid to maintain a flag carrier presence. Any carrier operating those flights under free market principles would’ve gone bust within days.

Middle Eastern carriers tried to make a dent in the US market in about 2015, there was a lot of talk as the US carrier banded together and successfully lobbied their government to restrict the expansion of the ME3 into the US to protect local jobs and profits. US aviation unions also have a lot more sway and influence than Australian unions in pushing that protectionism for their local industry, but I can’t deny that at some level behind the scenes local Australian unions are lobbying for more protectionism for local jobs.

[dragon man]

So why should Emirates have 65 flights a week into Australia but not Qatar? Could it be because they have a marketing deal with Qantas, it’s rank hypocrisy. The reality IMO is that the middle eastern airlines should have been treated like the Canadians treated them and given f**k all rights.

[777Nine]

Turkish airlines have no hope in hell of getting into the Australian international market.

[dragon man]

data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7Qantas is ‘most powerful’ player in Canberra: Peter CostelloFormer treasurer Peter Costello says the airline puts a lot of effort into lobbying and he can’t fathom the Albanese government decision to restrict Qatar from increasing its flights.
Eric Johnston (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/authors/eric-johnston) and David Rogers (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/authors/david-rogers)2 min read
August 30, 2023 - 10:31AMThe Australian Business Network
https://archive.vn/YAEcz/9d6d8a6e4e41cfd1cf00736cf9c315eb93381786.webp
The Federal government is still under pressure to explain its reasoning behind why Qatar Airways was blocked from adding extra flights to Australia. Virgin Airlines has demanded a review into the decision after Qantas helped scuttle the request.


Former treasurer Peter Costello says Qantas is one of the most powerful players in Canberra and can’t fathom why a decision was made by the Albanese government to restrict rival international carrier Qatar from increasing flights into Australia.
“(Qantas) has a very strong brand and puts a lot of effort into advertising and lobbying … And I would say as a company it is one of the most powerful players in Canberra,” Mr Costello said.
The former treasurer was speaking in capacity as chairman of the Future Fund at a briefing.
“It is hard to fathom why the government would not allow more flights into Australia at a time when fares are so high and volumes still down on pre-Covid levels. And of course by not allowing further international flights into Australia you’ll have less competition, you’ll have higher fares, you’ll have higher inflation,” Mr Costello said.
“So it’s very hard to fathom what the thinking behind that was.
“The suggestion that the government somehow had a responsibility to protect (Qantas’) profit? I just can’t understand — the government is not there to protect anybody’s profit.”https://archive.vn/YAEcz/43b65e0b509cf64bbcc0bea5beffaa8c915ff8f1.jpgFuture Fund chairman Peter Costello says private companies are supposed to compete. Picture: Josie HaydenHe said the private sector companies were supposed to compete with each other.
“It’s up to them to protect their own profits within the framework that’s been set by the government and regulatory authorities.”
Mr Costello demanded the government come clean on why it made the decision to knock back the international carrier.
“I think we need a much clearer explanation of those comments,” he said.
The federal government knocked back (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-perplexing-reason-for-blocking-qatar-airways-bid-for-more-flights-down-under/news-story/ab9728c611728e772cf6e13bbc2da08a)Qatar’s application for more traffic rights in July, following Qantas’ objection.
https://archive.vn/YAEcz/5c6eeb4df751f8007ba2dbe37946fd4341be5d04.webp
The Herald Sun's Business Commentator Terry McCrann says saving money benefits not just Qantas but all airlines flying into Australia with slots, at the expense of consumers who face high fares on any airline flying in or out of the country.
Transport Minister Catherine King told parliament this month that the government considered the extra 28 flights a week sought by Qatar were “not in the national interest” but refused to elaborate.
But the Australian on Wednesday revealed that (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-boss-jane-hrdlicka-says-qatar-bid-would-have-brought-down-airfares/news-story/10ca476203235ae09eaf2620c35ef9a4)senior members of the government were not informed of the decision taken by Transport Minister Catherine King, with *Anthony Albanese saying on Tues*day he was not responsible for knocking back the Qatari bid.
Last week Qantas boss Alan Joyce told investors the argument to restrict capacity was made in a submission to the Department of Transport last October that was weighing up the Qatar application. https://archive.vn/YAEcz/3eae4f9bdbd967fbe755d304ebba609db4cfbb48.jpgQantas CEO Alan Joyce during a senate hearing into the cost of living on August 28. Picture NCA NewsWire / Aaron FrancisMr Joyce said that at the time Qantas had feared the additional flights “could actually distort the market”.
“That’s proven to be correct, because capacity has essentially doubled in that period of time,” the Qantas boss told investors.
“From July 1 this year to June 30 next year 6.4 million seats will be added to international capacity”.
”In fact in the last few months, China Southern and Singapore Airlines have announced additions to capacity that are way above what Qatar was asking for”.More Coveragehttps://archive.vn/YAEcz/f118d4d8b5558e265041bfb9d68f7ec02c3e7faa.jpg (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/qantas-faces-questions-by-another-federal-committee-as-debate-rages-over-the-qatar-slot-rejection/news-story/c253930c3cb5878258a214d8bf7c3f12)Parliament pressure grows on Qantas over Qatar ruling (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/qantas-faces-questions-by-another-federal-committee-as-debate-rages-over-the-qatar-slot-rejection/news-story/c253930c3cb5878258a214d8bf7c3f12)
https://archive.vn/YAEcz/6bcef66b2b944999c309dc215954e8c00f327cd2.jpg (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/qantas-admits-true-value-of-unused-covid-travel-credits-much-higher-than-its-reported/news-story/9928e730b57b28390089cd103715cb4d)Qantas sitting on bigger pile of unused Covid credits (https://archive.vn/o/YAEcz/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/business/qantas-admits-true-value-of-unused-covid-travel-credits-much-higher-than-its-reported/news-story/9928e730b57b28390089cd103715cb4d)
At the same time capacity between countries with “open skies” agreements including the US and Japan has also increased sharply. Mr Joyce added.
The Qantas boss said flight access rights between countries are dictated by governments and bilateral discussions and governments take in a lot of considerations and ask for submissions in different forms.
“There’s a lot of reasons why the government can consider granting or not,” Mr Joyce said.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Turkish airlines have no hope in hell of getting into the Australian international market.

Why would the Australian government make it easier for Australians to make their bucket list Gallipoli trip? :ugh:

[Global Aviator]

So why should Emirates have 65 flights a week into Australia but not Qatar? Could it be because they have a marketing deal with Qantas, it’s rank hypocrisy. The reality IMO is that the middle eastern airlines should have been treated like the Canadians treated them and given f**k all rights.

QF code share agreement……………

[MikeHatter732]

data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7Qantas is ‘most powerful’ player in Canberra: Peter Costello

Ah yesh, because the LNP would never allow lobbyist to control their policies at all to result in larger profits. What a load of hypocritical tripe.

[dragon man]

Ah yesh, because the LNP would never allow lobbyist to control their policies at all to result in larger profits. What a load of hypocritical tripe.


They are all hypocrites but the fact is that today it’s the labour government despite their pre election crap about a more open and transparent government. A pox on them all.

[601]

national carrier.

Can someone provide a link to a document that says that QF is the national carrier..

[Global Aviator]

https://youtu.be/-niyYHexMTo?si=3UeOA9uhnkXnrEI5

Perception……………

[dragon man]

The consumer watchdog has launched legal action against Qantas, alleging the airline advertised tickets for 8000 flights that had already been cancelled but

not removed from sale.

In an explosive revelation, the Australian Competition & Consumer

Commission alleged that the flights in question were scheduled to depart

between May and July 2022, and Qantas kept selling tickets for an average of more than two weeks after they were cancelled.

A statement by the ACCC alleged that for more than 10,000 flights scheduled to depart in that period, Qantas did not notify existing ticketholders their flights had been cancelled for an average of 18-days and in some cases for up to 48-days.

The ACCC further alleged that Qantas did not update its "Manage My

Booking" web page for ticketholders to reflect the cancellation.

"This conduct affected a substantial proportion of flights cancelled by Qantas between May to July 2022." said the ACCC.

"It's alleged that for about 70 per cent of cancelled flights, Qantas either continued to sell tickets for the flight on its website for two days or more, or delayed informing existing ticketholders that their flight was cancelled for two days or more, or both."

[dragon man]

Qantas finally buckles on flight credits, scraps refund deadlinesQantas has bowed to public pressure and scrapped its December 31 deadline for passengers to claim their flight credits.
https://archive.vn/zR9Gb/fbfa06b95733d9d16db80d184bcaa23dd87253cf.png (https://archive.vn/o/zR9Gb/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/journalists/matthew-benns)Matthew Benns (https://archive.vn/o/zR9Gb/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/journalists/matthew-benns)
@MatthewBenns (https://archive.vn/o/zR9Gb/https://twitter.com/MatthewBenns)
less than 2 min read
August 31, 2023 - 10:12AM https://archive.vn/zR9Gb/5bd2680b1fd44b7d32078feab9eb2cb3d80d16f4.jpgQantas CEO Alan Joyce. Picture: NCA NewsWire / Aaron Francis


Qantas has bowed to public pressure and scrapped its December 31 deadline for passengers to claim their flight credits.
The airline is expected to announce the decision today with a video from chief executive Alan Joyce apologising to customers for botching the refunds.
Mr Joyce was grilled by the senate cost of living inquiry on Monday where he and his executives were forced into admitting there were $150 million more in outstanding credits than previously thought.
Qantas had said it still owed $370 million in flight credits from the Covid shut down but it emerged Jetstar also owed more than $100 million and overseas passengers at least another $50 million.
It is understood the airline will ditch the December 31 deadline to claim credits and allow them to sit indefinitely. However Qantas passengers who book another flight with the credit by the end of the year will earn double frequent flyer points.More Coveragehttps://archive.vn/zR9Gb/54c7f7cad406d9938c4dc6058cd409eaca62177e.jpg (https://archive.vn/o/zR9Gb/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/qantas-sued-by-consumer-watchdog-for-allegedly-advertising-tickets-for-8000-flights-already-cancelled/news-story/1316e4f2420099f5639f7359315871b2)Qantas advertised 8k tickets for dud flights (https://archive.vn/o/zR9Gb/https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/qantas-sued-by-consumer-watchdog-for-allegedly-advertising-tickets-for-8000-flights-already-cancelled/news-story/1316e4f2420099f5639f7359315871b2)
After that time Qantas passengers will be able to get their money back.
Jetstar and overseas passengers were never entitled to a refund and will simply have their credit remaining to use when they want.
It is the fourth time the airline has moved the deadline with airline sources indicating that it felt a deadline was the best way to push passengers to reclaim their money.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Qantas also being prosecuted by the ACCC for continuing to sell tickets on flights it had already cancelled - false, misleading or deceptive conduct.

Don't have the link handy - in today's AFR.

[dragon man]

ACCC sues Qantas for selling tickets on cancelled flightsRonald Mizen (https://archive.vn/o/rKifH/https://www.afr.com/by/ronald-mizen-gyvn3t) and Ayesha de Kretser (https://archive.vn/o/rKifH/https://www.afr.com/by/ayesha-de-kretser-p535y1)Aug 31, 2023 – 10.10am
Save

ShareQantas faces tens of millions of dollars in fines over allegations it engaged in false, misleading or deceptive conduct by advertising tickets for more than 8000 flights it had already cancelled.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission on Thursday alleged Qantas sold tickets for flights an average two weeks and up to 47 days after they were cancelled between May and July last year, causing chaos for travellers. https://archive.vn/rKifH/fd05dbed6cc1bcc58e05ed214a7596ca686b969b.webp Qantas faces tens of millions in fines if it is found to have breached consumer law. Getty Images The ACCC also alleges the airline cancelled 15,000 of 66,000 scheduled flights over the same period. For 10,000 cancellations, it took on average 18 days and up to 48 days to notify ticket holders, the watchdog says.
ACCC chairwoman Gina Cass-Gottlieb said Qantas’ actions “left customers with less time to make alternative arrangements and may have led to them paying higher prices to fly at a particular time”.
The watchdog launched action on the cancellations in the Federal Court. It comes a week after Qantas announced a record $2.5 billion profit for last financial year and amid a firestorm over its failure to refund an estimated $500 million in pandemic-era flight credits.
Just minutes after the ACCC announced the court action, Qantas said it would scrap the arbitrary December 31 expiry date for credits.
Qantas said it would examine the ACCC allegations and respond through the court, but stressed the period under review was “a time of unprecedented upheaval for the entire airline industry.”
“Airlines were experiencing well-publicised issues from a very challenging restart, with ongoing border uncertainty, industry-wide staff shortages and fleet availability causing a lot of disruption,” Qantas said in a statement.
The court action will raise awkward questions for the Albanese government, which labelled Qantas’ record profit “a good news story” and said it blocked Qatar Airways’ bid for 28 more flights a week to protect Qantas. (https://archive.vn/o/rKifH/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/qantas-boss-defends-fares-profits-competition-in-senate-clash-20230828-p5dzxg)
Treasurer Jim Chalmers said the allegations were “deeply concerning” but the Albanese government would not make any further comment while the matter was before the court.Tens of thousands affectedMs Cass-Gottlieb said Qantas’ actions, which were deliberate and within its control, probably affected the travel plans of tens of thousands of people.
“We allege that Qantas made many of these cancellations for reasons that were within its control, such as network optimisation including in response to shifts in consumer demand, route withdrawals or retention of take-off and landing slots at certain airports,” she said.
“This case does not involve any alleged breach in relation to the actual cancellation of flights, but rather relates to Qantas’ conduct after it had cancelled the flights.
“Cancelled flights can result in significant financial, logistical and emotional impacts for consumers.”
In one example, ticket holders for Qantas flight QF93 from Melbourne to Los Angeles on May 6, 2022, were notified of the cancellation on May 4, two days before the scheduled departure and four days after it was cancelled.
One consumer was provided with a replacement flight a day before their original departure date, which was communicated only by the Qantas app.
As a result, the consumer had to change connecting flights and had a 15-hour layover in Los Angeles, which had a significant impact on the consumer and left them $600 out of pocket.
In another example, Qantas sold 21 tickets for QF73 from Sydney to San Francisco scheduled to depart on July 28, 2022, after it had cancelled the flight, with the last ticket being sold 40 days after cancellation.
The ACCC is seeking orders including penalties, injunctions, declarations, and costs.
The maximum penalty an individual breach of consumer law is the greater of $10 million, three times the total benefits that have been obtained and are reasonably attributable, or 10 per cent of the company’s annual turnover.
A lack of competition among airlines is responsible for more law breaches in aviation than in more competitive industries, a report from independent economic think tank e61 this week revealed. (https://archive.vn/o/rKifH/https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/market-power-leads-to-airline-s-misbehaving-report-finds-20230829-p5e091)
“There have been 12 infringement notices and enforceable undertakings issued over 30 years in the airline industry, which is famously dominated by a small number of companies,” the report said

[dragon man]

The chickens are all coming home to roost finally for Joyce. Couldn’t happen to a nicer ####

[RealSatoshi]

The chickens are all coming home to roost finally for Joyce. Couldn’t happen to a nicer ####
In summary, AJ will leave the building with both a full wallet and an empty reputation...:E

Vanessa Hudson has an opportunity to show nuclear leadership here - Day 1 Task 1: Close the Chairman's Lounge with IMMEDIATE effect.

[neville_nobody]

Close the Chairman's Lounge with IMMEDIATE effect.

No they should just remove all government employees, politicians and judges.

[PoppaJo]

This has really just become an embarrassment.

He should just go today, forget November, just go now.

[SIUYA]

The Board too PoppaJo.

They've completely disregarded their obligations to ensure that Qantas was managed with the highest standards of ethics and integrity, and the Chairman should hang his head in shame at just how much damage has been done to the once highly respected Qantas brand under his so-called leadership. :mad:

[brokenagain]

He should just go today, forget November, just go now.

His position has become completely untenable, but his ego won’t allow it.

[SIUYA]

brokenagain said in response to PoppaJo's comment that Joyce should go 'today': His position has become completely untenable, but his ego won’t allow it.

I agree, Joyce should go today, and that's also a responsibility of the Board under so-called leadership of the Chairman, because in accordance with the Board Charter, it is responsible for:

...agreeing the strategic direction and objectives of Qantas and monitoring the implementation of that strategy by Qantas Management, including ...appointing and removing the Chief Executive Officer...

On all counts, the Board doesn't seem to have done a very good job by allowing Qantas to be managed with disregard to ethical business practice that seems to have resulted in the ACCC action.

[More Beer Please]

Alan could also hand back his AC

[dragon man]

They sit around their board meetings pissing in each other pockets about how good they are while having no idea what’s going on at the coal face and what a basket case the organisation has become.

[RealSatoshi]

...while having no idea what’s going on at the coal face and what a basket case the organisation has become.
Looks like they are about to find out :rolleyes:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x199/screenshot_2023_08_31_at_12_25_19_24010959eac7da5b66195f3e01 bf55d2753461d2.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x193/screenshot_2023_08_31_at_12_24_50_a2506564e9addd628538ef9938 8b4105031c54f7.png
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x217/screenshot_2023_08_31_at_12_35_21_f392e7033556863633c7441623 0044df1a3d9b99.png

[CaptainInsaneO]

Does anyone have a link to watch the full senate inquiry?

[Lead Balloon]

If you're asking about the inquiry at which AJ appeared on Monday, there is no video on the Parliament website. There is audio of his appearance, though, here (https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Read_Listen/ParlView/video/1657940). The hearing starts at about the 15:28 mark.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Can someone provide a link to a document that says that QF is the national carrier..

Follow this link (https://media.giphy.com/media/kFgzrTt798d2w/giphy.gif) to the AusClass site of declassified National Cabinet Archives from 1954.

[dragon man]

MEDIA RELEASE
31 August 2023
ACCC takes court action alleging Qantas advertised flights it had already cancelled
The ACCC today launched action in the Federal Court of Australia alleging Qantas Airways (QAN) engaged in false, misleading or deceptive conduct, by advertising tickets for more than 8,000 flights that it had already cancelled but not removed from sale.
The ACCC alleges that for more than 8,000 flights scheduled to depart between May and July 2022, Qantas kept selling tickets on its website for an average of more than two weeks, and in some cases for up to 47 days, after the cancellation of the flights.
It is also alleged that, for more than 10,000 flights scheduled to depart in May to July 2022, Qantas did not notify existing ticketholders that their flights had been cancelled for an average of about 18 days, and in some cases for up to 48 days. The ACCC alleges that Qantas did not update its “Manage Booking” web page for ticketholders to reflect the cancellation.
This conduct affected a substantial proportion of flights cancelled by Qantas between May to July 2022. The ACCC alleges that for about 70 per cent of cancelled flights, Qantas either continued to sell tickets for the flight on its website for two days or more, or delayed informing existing ticketholders that their flight was cancelled for two days or more, or both.
“The ACCC has conducted a detailed investigation into Qantas’ flight cancellation practices. As a result, we have commenced these proceedings alleging that Qantas continued selling tickets for thousands of cancelled flights, likely affecting the travel plans of tens of thousands of people,” ACCC Chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb said.
“We allege that Qantas’ conduct in continuing to sell tickets to cancelled flights, and not updating ticketholders about cancelled flights, left customers with less time to make alternative arrangements and may have led to them paying higher prices to fly at a particular time not knowing that flight had already been cancelled.”
“There are vast distances between Australia’s major cities. Reliable air travel is essential for many consumers in Australia who are seeking to visit loved ones, take holidays, grow their businesses or connect with colleagues. Cancelled flights can result in significant financial, logistical and emotional impacts for consumers,” Ms Cass-Gottlieb said.
The ACCC’s investigation included engagement with impacted consumers and the serving of compulsory information notices on Qantas. The investigation, which included detailed data analysis by ACCC specialist data analysts, identified that Qantas cancelled almost 1 in 4 flights in the period from May to July 2022, with about 15,000 out of 66,000 domestic and international flights from airports in all states and mainland territories in Qantas’ published schedule being cancelled. These proceedings relate to more than 10,000 of those cancelled flights.
As an example of the conduct, ticketholders scheduled to fly on Qantas flight QF93 from Melbourne to Los Angeles on 6 May 2022 were first notified of the cancellation on 4 May, two days before the scheduled departure and four days after Qantas had cancelled the flight One consumer was provided with a replacement flight a day before their original departure date, which was communicated only by the Qantas app. As a result, the consumer had to change connecting flights and had a 15-hour layover in Los Angeles, which had a significant impact on the consumer and left them $600 out of pocket.
In another example, Qantas sold 21 tickets for QF73 from Sydney to San Francisco scheduled to depart on 28 July 2023 after it had cancelled the flight, with the last ticket being sold 40 days after cancellation.
Airlines may cancel flights in the short term due to a range of unforeseeable reasons including bad weather, aircraft defects and delays from previous flights. Flight cancellation can also happen due to a range of factors that are within the control of an airline.
“We allege that Qantas made many of these cancellations for reasons that were within its control, such as network optimisation including in response to shifts in consumer demand, route withdrawals or retention of take-off and landing slots at certain airports,” Ms Cass- Gottlieb said.
“However, this case does not involve any alleged breach in relation to the actual cancellation of flights, but rather relates to Qantas’ conduct after it had cancelled the flights.”
The ACCC is seeking orders including penalties, injunctions, declarations, and costs.
Some examples of flights allegedly affected
▪ Qantas flight QF93 was scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Los Angeles on 6 May 2022. On 28 April 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 2 May 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 4 May 2022 (two days before the flight).
▪ Qantas flight QF81 was scheduled to depart from Sydney to Singapore on 4 June 2022. On 8 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 27 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 28 March 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF63 was scheduled to depart from Sydney to Johannesburg on 31 July 2022. On 8 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 27 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 28 March 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF486 was scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Sydney on 1 May 2022. On 18 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 15 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 16 March 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF1785 was scheduled to depart from Gold Coast to Sydney on 1 May 2022. On 17 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 15 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 16 March 2022.
▪ QantasflightQF696wasscheduledtodepartfromAdelaidetoMelbourne on23July 2022. On 18 June 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 26 June 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 27 June 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF1764 was scheduled to depart from Canberra to Gold Coast on 27 June 2022. On 16 June 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite One consumer was provided with a replacement flight a day before their original departure date, which was communicated only by the Qantas app. As a result, the consumer had to change connecting flights and had a 15-hour layover in Los Angeles, which had a significant impact on the consumer and left them $600 out of pocket.
In another example, Qantas sold 21 tickets for QF73 from Sydney to San Francisco scheduled to depart on 28 July 2023 after it had cancelled the flight, with the last ticket being sold 40 days after cancellation.
Airlines may cancel flights in the short term due to a range of unforeseeable reasons including bad weather, aircraft defects and delays from previous flights. Flight cancellation can also happen due to a range of factors that are within the control of an airline.
“We allege that Qantas made many of these cancellations for reasons that were within its control, such as network optimisation including in response to shifts in consumer demand, route withdrawals or retention of take-off and landing slots at certain airports,” Ms Cass- Gottlieb said.
“However, this case does not involve any alleged breach in relation to the actual cancellation of flights, but rather relates to Qantas’ conduct after it had cancelled the flights.”
The ACCC is seeking orders including penalties, injunctions, declarations, and costs.
Some examples of flights allegedly affected
▪ Qantas flight QF93 was scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Los Angeles on 6 May 2022. On 28 April 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 2 May 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 4 May 2022 (two days before the flight).
▪ Qantas flight QF81 was scheduled to depart from Sydney to Singapore on 4 June 2022. On 8 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 27 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 28 March 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF63 was scheduled to depart from Sydney to Johannesburg on 31 July 2022. On 8 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 27 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 28 March 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF486 was scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Sydney on 1 May 2022. On 18 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 15 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 16 March 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF1785 was scheduled to depart from Gold Coast to Sydney on 1 May 2022. On 17 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 15 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 16 March 2022.
▪ QantasflightQF696wasscheduledtodepartfromAdelaidetoMelbourne on23July 2022. On 18 June 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 26 June 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 27 June 2022.
▪ Qantas flight QF1764 was scheduled to depart from Canberra to Gold Coast on 27 June 2022. On 16 June 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 19 June 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 20 June 2022.

Qantas flight QF513 was scheduled to depart from Brisbane to Sydney on 8 June 2022. On 27 May 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 30 May 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 31 May 2022.
Qantas flight QF45 was scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Denpasar on 1 May 2022. On 8 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 24 February 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 23 March 2022.
Qantas flight QF649 was scheduled to depart from Sydney to Perth on 30 July 2022. On 18 February 2022, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, Qantas did not remove the flight from sale until 7 March 2022, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until 8 March 2022.

Background

Qantas is Australia’s largest domestic airline operator. It is a publicly listed company which operates domestic and international passenger flights under its mainline brand, Qantas, and through its subsidiary Jetstar. It offers flights for sale through direct channels, such as its website and app, and indirect channels, such as travel agents and third-party online booking websites.

ACCC’s other work in the airline industry

During the pandemic and in the industry’s recovery period, from June 2020 to June 2023, the ACCC monitored prices, costs and profits of Australia’s major domestic airlines under a direction from the Federal Government.

The ACCC has investigated various aspects of Qantas’ conduct over the past three years. It has been engaging with Qantas directly on aspects of its customer service in an effort to get quick and equitable outcomes for consumers, however the ACCC considers that Qantas needs to do more.

The ACCC continues to receive more complaints about Qantas than about any other business. Last year alone the ACCC received more than 1,300 complaints about Qantas cancellations, accounting for half of all complaints about Qantas reported to the ACCC.

The ACCC notes Qantas’ public statements that most consumers holding COVID flight credits are eligible for, and still able to seek, refunds. The ACCC strongly encourages consumers holding these flight credits to seek refunds directly from Qantas.

Qantas has suggested that these COVID credits will expire at the end of December 2023, and that customers with expired COVID credits where Qantas cancelled the original flight may not be able to seek a refund. The ACCC has written to Qantas strongly objecting to this proposed position and will continue to monitor the situation to ensure Qantas continues to make available refunds to consumers.

The ACCC also notes there is a current class action which has been launched in relation to flight credits, and affected consumers may be able to seek remedies against Qantas as part of this class action.

Maximum penalties

For corporations, the maximum penalties for each breach of the Australian Consumer Law before 9 November 2022 is the greater of:


$10 million,
three times the total benefits that have been obtained and are reasonably attributable, or
if the total value of the benefits cannot be determined, 10 per cent of the corporation's annual turnover.

Concise statement

ACCC v Qantas Concise Statement 31 August 2023 (https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/ACCC%20v%20Qantas%20_%20Concise%20Statement%20-%2031%20August%202023.pdf)

The document contains the ACCC’s initiating court documents in relation to this matter. We will not be uploading further documents in the event these initial documents are subsequently amended.

Correction: This media release was amended on 31 August 2023 to correct the date of the example for flight QF73 to 29 July 2022, and not 28 July 2023 as originally stated.
Release number108/23ACCC InfocentreUse this form to make a general enquiry (https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/contact-the-accc/make-an-enquiry)
Media enquiries

[Lead Balloon]

But we should be thankful that Qantas has never breached an aviation safety law. Never ever.

Qantas will do pretty much anything to screw every red cent it can out of its employees, its passengers and the taxpayer, but no way would Qantas ever breach the aviation safety law. Never ever.

[blubak]

They sit around their board meetings pissing in each other pockets about how good they are while having no idea what’s going on at the coal face and what a basket case the organisation has become.
The back slappers club in full flight, praising each other for the great job they do & how their airline is performing so well whilst on board there are unusable J class seats that havent worked for many weeks & on the ground theres the pilots about to head into PIA which gets a response such as 'We are disappointed this is happening'!
As someone else said the board are as equally useless & need to be hung out to dry with this lot of egomaniacs.

[dragon man]

Add in the 787 that is grounded till at the moment the 10th of September after a baggage belt pierced the fuselage I believe, more delays and I think already some cancellations.

[rodchucker]

Lets hope there are enough in the short/long term incentive
hurdles to bring this home to those Execs responsible ( and I mean multiple not just one) before they leave with the company cash that probably belongs to disgruntled travellers. Lets see how the Board spins this one.

[nvfr]

I’m so glad we got a $500 staff travel bonus. I wonder if Joyce will get the same

[dragon man]

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OPINIONQantas ‘ghost flights’ allegations leave airline with some explaining to dohttps://archive.md/JGiKF/f7ee108c5a773f45efde4e970095474aa7105e1c.webp Qantas is experiencing its “AMP charging dead customers (https://archive.md/o/JGiKF/https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5dc1k)” moment.
In what must count as one of the greatest challenges Qantas’ outgoing boss, Alan Joyce (https://archive.md/o/JGiKF/https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5dyt9), has faced in his 15-year reign, which includes COVID, the global financial crisis, the 2014 grounding of its entire fleet and the unlawful sacking of 2000 ground staff, the airline is facing allegations of selling tickets for flights it had already cancelled. https://archive.md/JGiKF/9bdbae2e547215a01ad63665455708fdbb985467.webp Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has some explaining to do.CREDIT: EAMON GALLAGHER The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) alleges that Qantas (https://archive.md/o/JGiKF/https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5e026) sold tickets for thousands of such “ghost” flights.
This is next-level myth-busting and a body blow for the Qantas brand, which has plummeted from one of Australia’s best loved brand to one most derided by consumers.
If the ACCC’s allegations do hold up, then Qantas has really taken its reputation for brazenness to a whole new level.
Selling tickets for flights that never existed literally left tens of thousands of Qantas customers in the lurch, leaving them unhappy witnesses to the sort of behaviour that demands some answers from the airline’s top brass.How Qantas allegedly failed customers

QF93 was scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Los Angeles on May 6, 2022. On April 28, Qantas made the decision to cancel the flight. Despite this, it did not remove the flight from sale until May 2, and did not inform existing ticketholders of the cancellation until May 4 (two days before the flight).
QF81 was scheduled to depart from Sydney to Singapore on June 4, 2022. On February 8, Qantas cancelled the flight, which was not removed from sale until March 27. Existing ticketholders were not informed of the cancellation until March 28.
QF486 was scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Sydney on May 1, 2022. On February 18, Qantas cancelled the flight, which was not removed from sale until March 15. Existing ticketholders were not informed of the cancellation until March 16.
QF649 was scheduled to depart from Sydney to Perth on July 30, 2022. On February 18, Qantas cancelled the flight, which was not removed from sale until March 7. Existing ticketholders were not informed of the cancellation until March 8.
Other examples the ACCC listed of flights affected were QF63 scheduled to depart from Sydney to Johannesburg on July 31, 2022; QF1785 scheduled to depart from Gold Coast to Sydney on May 1, 2022; QF696 scheduled to depart from Adelaide to Melbourne on July 23, 2022; QF1764 scheduled to depart from Canberra to Gold Coast on June 27, 2022; QF513 scheduled to depart from Brisbane to Sydney on June 8, 2022; QF45 scheduled to depart from Melbourne to Denpasar on May 1, 2022.


It also leaves the federal government with some explaining to do (https://archive.md/o/JGiKF/https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5e03l), as to why it deemed it was in the national interest to protect Qantas, which has been accused of illegally mistreating its customers. The government has already been on the back foot struggling to justify why it had denied an application by Qatar Airways (https://archive.md/o/JGiKF/https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5dyjc) to increase the number of flights into Australia.
For Prime Minister Anthony Albanese (https://archive.md/o/JGiKF/https://www.smh.com.au/link/follow-20170101-p5dyaw) and Transport Minister Catherine King, this already tough sell just got a lot tougher.The scale of Qantas’ alleged deception is shocking. It allegedly sold tickets for 8000 services scheduled to depart between May and July last year, weeks after the decision had already been made by the airline to nix the flights.
Compounding the alleged offences, Qantas allegedly failed to inform any customers of 10,000 cancelled flights for, on average, 18 days. In some cases, it was allegedly up to 48 days.
https://archive.md/JGiKF/1358029bacd68a8617662ee3a83bee15043273ec.jpg
https://archive.md/JGiKF/a9cc6c59501d25a71f65682bd605aa58a62dd727.jpg
Please Explain


The prime minister, the Qantas boss, and an enraged public
00:00 / 12:51

Within this May-July period, the ACCC alleges that for about 70 per cent of cancelled flights, Qantas either continued to sell tickets for the flight on its website for two days or more, or delayed informing existing ticket holders that their flight was cancelled for two days or more, or both.
The regulator also claims that Qantas cancelled almost one in four flights in the period, with about 15,000 out of 66,000 domestic and international flights. Its legal proceedings relate to 10,000 of these cancelled flights.
It is the kind of behaviour, if substantiated, that would normally lead to intense calls for management heads to roll, or at the very least, a push by shareholders for executive pay to be adjusted to reflect the damage wreaked on the company’s brand.
Joyce is already packing his pot plants and framed snaps at Qantas’ head office, so whether the ACCC action has any repercussions on his pay and bonuses remains to be seen. Play Video
https://archive.md/JGiKF/84182fdbea75cde67d65457a0b3bd488177211b7.jpg (https://archive.md/JGiKF/again?url=https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/qantas-ghost-flights-allegations-leaves-airline-with-some-explaining-to-do-20230831-p5e100.html#) https://archive.md/JGiKF/84182fdbea75cde67d65457a0b3bd488177211b7.jpg (https://archive.md/JGiKF/again?url=https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/qantas-ghost-flights-allegations-leaves-airline-with-some-explaining-to-do-20230831-p5e100.html#)
Play video
1:34 (https://archive.md/JGiKF/again?url=https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/qantas-ghost-flights-allegations-leaves-airline-with-some-explaining-to-do-20230831-p5e100.html#)Qatar Airways expansion could have driven down fares (https://archive.md/JGiKF/again?url=https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/qantas-ghost-flights-allegations-leaves-airline-with-some-explaining-to-do-20230831-p5e100.html#)
An expansion of Qatar Airways operations in Australia could have driven fares down by as much as 40 per cent, according to an industry leader.
Let’s not forget, the public may have their views on Joyce, but he is universally loved by Qantas’ board and shareholders. The airline’s chairman, Richard Goyder, is arguably the No.1 ticket holder of the Joyce fan club.
But the ACCC’s allegations further tarnish Joyce’s tenure at Qantas and are an assault on his credibility.
This isn’t just an issue of an airline misleading its customers by selling tickets for ghost flights, the allegations undermine Joyce’s repeated claims that bad weather, staff sickness and poor airport support were responsible for delayed flights and cancellations.
ACCC chair Gina Cass Gottlieb has said the service disruptions were due to “reasons that were within its [Qantas’] control, such as network optimisation including in response to shifts in consumer demand, route withdrawals or retention of take-off and landing slots at certain airports”.
For its part, Qantas has had little comeback to the allegations, other than the stock standard line that it’s taking them seriously. The action taken by the ACCC coincided with Qantas’ decision to remove the expiry date on COVID travel credits that were due to run out at the end of this year.
“We have a longstanding approach to managing cancellations for flights, with a focus on providing customers with rebooking options or refunds. It’s a process that is consistent with common practice at many other airlines,” the airline said.
“It’s important to note that the period examined by the ACCC between May and July 2022 was a time of unprecedented upheaval for the entire airline industry.
“All airlines were experiencing well-publicised issues from a very challenging restart, with ongoing border uncertainty, industry-wide staff shortages and fleet availability causing a lot of disruption.”
What’s less clear for now is whether Qantas is looking to explain away its alleged actions as a system snafu, which occurred due to post-COVID industry chaos.
But even if that is the case, Qantas’ customers will feel they have been betrayed by the flying kangaroo.

[dragon man]

If ever Karma has done it’s bit this has to be the one. A man who single handedly destroyed the reputation of a once great airline. Shat on the staff , shat on the customers plus the taxpayers while taking out obscene sums of money for himself. In 14 years Qantas paid $450 million I think in company tax while Joyce with his final payout in November received $180 million. It couldn’t have happened to a better person.

[PoppaJo]

His farewell tour isn’t going to plan it seems.

Joe Aston isn’t going away either. I look forward to his final departure piece in November.

The consequences of announcing a 6 month farewell tour. What did he think? It was going to be rainbows and unicorns or something?

A lesson for many other CEOs. How not to depart a company.

His still got 9 weeks to go folks.

[dragon man]

Wow, just wow

dow (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window)

Print articleRear Window https://archive.md/Igk5R/c7303bb2dd0a7b2cdb147084087488e9dac3a9aa.pngAlan Joyce’s farewell tour descends into omnishamblesJoe Aston (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/by/joe-aston-hveym)ColumnistAug 31, 2023 – 7.43pm
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At 9am on Thursday, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission launched an Exocet missile at Qantas, launching a deceptive conduct suit against the airline (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/accc-sues-qantas-for-selling-tickets-on-cancelled-flights-20230831-p5e0v7) for selling tickets last year on flights it had already cancelled.
The ACCC also noted that Qantas’ unused COVID travel credits would expire on December 31, warning that it “has written to Qantas strongly objecting to this proposed position and will continue to monitor the situation to ensure Qantas continues to make available refunds to consumers.” https://archive.md/Igk5R/a7ea007b8e6012be31c17b452a7d48d9f0f7059c.webp Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce at Monday’s Senate hearing. Eamon Gallagher Within 15 minutes, Qantas was briefing journalists that the company was abandoning the credits’ December 31 expiry date.
Cheryl from Dapto (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/qantas-grand-theft-klepto-20230829-p5e0g8), you are so welcome.
“These credits and vouchers will never expire,” Alan Joyce assured the nation in his apology video. “We’re doing this because we’ve listened.”
Joyce is a grand master of insincerity to the very end. He hasn’t listened! He has been compelled to relent by a federal regulator with teeth. Joyce long ago demonstrated he’s not capable of listening, or learning, from any (non-coercive) external feedback.
A week ago, on 7:30, Joyce said all the issues with Qantas’ travel credits had been fixed (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-lines-aren-t-landing-anymore-20230827-p5dzt2). Three days ago, Qantas said the credits really must expire in order to “draw a line in the sand” and, under oath before the Australian parliament, Joyce refused to say exactly how much money in total Qantas and Jetstar customers are still owed. On Thursday, Qantas advised the Senate that the outstanding balance of credits is $570 million, a full $200 million more than the number Joyce had been using.
We learnt from ACCC chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb on Thursday that Qantas has been aware of her objection to the December 31 expiry of their travel credits for “multiple months”. Only after she served him with Federal Court proceedings on Thursday morning did Joyce back down.This is a full-blown disaster for the Albanese government.Oh, but he listened. Alan heard you! Yeah, nah. His tone-deafness is medical grade. He almost got away with it. The getaway car was roaring into the sunset with half a billion dollars in the trunk – Vanessa Hudson’s scarf was blowing in the wind. And now he’s seeking moral elevation for doing the right thing!
“We know the credit system was not as smooth as it should have been,” Joyce’s continued in his Checkers broadcast. “And, while we’ve improved it recently, and extended the expiry date several times, people lost faith in the process.”
It was the fault of the process, see? It was the fault of the people for losing faith! This is Joyce, true to abysmal form, deprecating his unequivocal personal responsibility for a flagrant scheme to lawfully steal his customers’ money. The credit system was as smooth as sandpaper, which is precisely as smooth as Qantas wanted it to be.
This is a full-blown disaster for the Albanese government. For the past fortnight, federal ministers – right up to Anthony Albanese himself – have virtually been campaigning alongside Joyce in defence of Qantas as the embodiment of the national interest.
On Tuesday, the PM was literally reciting Joyce’s talking points on why Qatar Airways should operate “bigger planes, that bring in more people” or just “fly in to Adelaide, as many planes as they like”. He was only a small leap from suggesting Qatar sells two tickets per seat and asks passengers to sit on each others’ laps. It was beneath the office of prime minister.What happens when you adhere doggedly to an implausible position is that your credibility collapses.Somehow, Albanese, Jim Chalmers, Catherine King (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/minister-for-qantas-catherine-king-crashes-on-take-off-20230816-p5dx3y) and Stephen Jones became recognised spokespeople for Australia’s most toxic company, the AMP of 2023. They can’t run now. The misjudgment is spectacular.
What happens when you adhere doggedly to an implausible position is that your credibility collapses. The credibility of Qantas has collapsed in the public’s eyes, it really has. Now, as a result of its comical inability to explain the Qatar decision, the government’s credibility is in the process of collapsing too.
Albanese is too pig-headed to U-turn. He overruled King and her department on Qatar – for his mate Alan – but next week Albo’s dashing off to Jakarta and New Delhi. King will be besieged in Question Time, where she cannot lie but she cannot tell the truth. The rest of cabinet is conspicuously throwing her under the bus. Hey, if you’re going to nominate someone as roadkill, it might as well be her. She ain’t no prize.
Any day now, Joyce will be paid a short-term bonus of up to $4.3 million for the year that ended on June 30 (in addition to 3.1 million Qantas shares (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-s-24m-golden-parachute-20230329-p5cwgc), worth $18 million, under his long-term bonus and retention schemes).
Yet he is leaving behind a class action over the travel credits (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/qantas-sued-over-misleading-flight-credits-refunds-20230821-p5dy5o), this massive ACCC action alleging deceptive conduct and even a Full Court of the Federal Court judgment of 1,800 illegal sackings (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/alan-joyce-the-man-who-wasn-t-there-20220828-p5bdel) (subject to High Court appeal).Is there any point at which Goyder does his job and says, “Enough is enough”?Does the Qantas board of directors, led by chairman Richard Goyder, really think it will meet public expectations – or indeed the shareholder expectations of industry superannuation funds – to let Joyce keep his short-term bonus in these circumstances?
If the directors think the market will cop that, they’ve lost grip of reality as acutely as Joyce himself. If they fail to claw back that payment, the Qantas AGM in November will closely resemble the economy class dunnies on the QF68 from Bangalore.
When Austrac lobbed its money laundering action against the Commonwealth Bank in August 2017, chairman Catherine Livingstonetook less than two business days to announce that chief executive Ian Narev would receive zero short-term bonus for the year just ended. Narev lost his job for what was a serious regulatory failure but not even a pimple on the cold betrayal of customers Joyce has presided over. That is the template here, but of course there is no way that Richard Goyder is as principled or as strong as Livingstone. He is as captured by Joyce as the Prime Minister.
What would it actually take for the Qantas board to tap Joyce on the shoulder and say, “Just go home already, this is the worst farewell tour in history. John Farnham, David Warner – they had nothing on you, Alan.” Is there any point at which Goyder does his job and says, “Enough is enough”?
Today, the Qantas board well and truly entered Rio Tinto territory. There is no moral equivalence between the destruction of sacred cultural property and ripping off airline passengers but the parallels are otherwise uncanny.
Juukan Gorge was a conflagration of social licence to operate, and Joyce has now ticked that box. Blowing up Juukan Gorge was legal and so is trying to finish the year with half a billion bucks of expired flight credits – but both badly fail the pub test. Rio Tinto failed to read the public mood through the winter of 2020 and Qantas is doing the same three years on. The Rio board failed to intervene as the Juukan scandal ran off the rails and today Goyder is steadfastly adhering to that script. The Rio board let its golden boy Jean-Sébastien Jacques (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/don-t-feel-sorry-for-js-jacques-20200911-p55uum) do whatever he pleased and Joyce enjoys the same indulgence from the Qantas directors. Both boards, and both CEOs, were and are convinced their mega-profits would and will protect them from shareholder desertion.
The two boards even have a common director in Michael L’Estrange, author of the shameful report that attempted to clear Jacques (https://archive.md/o/Igk5R/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/rio-tinto-directors-briefing-against-l-estrange-20200906-p55sue) before major Australian shareholders took a stand. Having apparently failed to persuade his Qantas board colleagues of these parallels, L’Estrange is retiring the same day as Joyce.
Alongside Goyder and L’Estrange, there’s Belinda Hutchinson, the former QBE chair who should know better after her Frank O’Halloranexperience. There’s Maxine Brenner, Jacquie Hey – who’s seen this all before at Cricket Australia – and even brand expert Todd Sampson!
So many Australians are enjoying Joyce’s implosion, marvelling as he slices up the Qantas brand, watching the man in the enchanted spectacles burn down his own house. Keep falling down and getting back up, Alan. Please never stop.
At some point even this troupe of invisible overseers must draw the curtain on this entire flaming omnishambles.

[lucille]

Joe Aston has certainly has pulled down the pants of greasy goblin with that article,

[megan]

News I saw said ACCC may be looking at a fine north of $125M, better not let the pixie cash that cheque just yet.

https://www.skynews.com.au/business/finance/the-accc-is-seeking-a-record-penalty-in-federal-court-action-over-qantass-deceptive-conduct/news-story/d1a5a1bc35e82fe988f7bfc379bf87e6

[HongKongflu]

Pants on fire...... big time Alan....

[C441]

The chickens are all coming home to roost finally for Joyce. Couldn’t happen to a nicer ####
The chickens will no doubt arrive on the same day Alan collects his $millions and hands in his ID. Vanessa Hudson is going to be one very busy CEO as she attempts to rectify the mess that was 'needed' to grow Alan's bonuses.

News I saw said ACCC may be looking at a fine north of $125M, better not let the pixie cash that cheque just yet.
Wouldn't that be ironic? The fine would match Alan's cumulative bonuses.

[Mr Mossberg]

Joyce won't lose one cent of what is promised, he also won't lose a wink of sleep over what Mr Aston writes, as entertaining as those articles are. Joyce is a psychopath, he couldn't care less. The business community will court him in his retirement, his diary will be full with speaking engagements. All this talk of karma is really funny.

[TimmyTee]

News I saw said ACCC may be looking at a fine north of $125M, better not let the pixie cash that cheque just yet.

https://www.skynews.com.au/business/finance/the-accc-is-seeking-a-record-penalty-in-federal-court-action-over-qantass-deceptive-conduct/news-story/d1a5a1bc35e82fe988f7bfc379bf87e6

Make that $600+ million!

https://www.theage.com.au/national/australia-news-live-labor-backs-snowy-2-0-project-despite-ballooning-costs-pm-begins-voice-referendum-campaign-20230831-p5e138.html#p556fh

[The The]

Word is, meetings underway at this very moment to decide who is going to be thrown under the bus for this. Not a good look for the outgoing or incoming CEO and it needs to be cleared quickly. A few very nervous senior executives in Coward St today.

[hotnhigh]

Word is, meetings underway at this very moment to decide who is going to be thrown under the bus for this. Not a good look for the outgoing or incoming CEO and it needs to be cleared quickly. A few very nervous senior executives in Coward St today.

they would be the same ones who strut around in the street oblivious to the sh5t the company has been serving up to customers for the last decade.
I hope they choke on the last latte before they are out the door.

[dragon man]

word is, meetings underway at this very moment to decide who is going to be thrown under the bus for this. Not a good look for the outgoing or incoming ceo and it needs to be cleared quickly. A few very nervous senior executives in coward st today.

There is only one and thats the irishman and don’t think for one minute that Vanessa Hudson had no knowledge of this. Goyder should also go. Clean the proxy place up. Il bet Albo won’t mutter a word in Alan’s defence.

[brokenagain]

Just goes to show that the new CEO should have come from outside. The whole management (not leadership) is toxic.

[PoppaJo]

Just goes to show that the new CEO should have come from outside. The whole management (not leadership) is toxic.

We have seen internal appointments in large corporates that have swept through and completely changed the landscapes inside. Brad Banducci at Woolworths is a good example.

The issue here, is Alan has reshuffled the deck and made appointments he wants before he has even left. He appoints a CEO and also made changes to those underneath such CEOs.

The Board does need to go however.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Word is, meetings underway at this very moment to decide who is going to be thrown under the bus for this.

Clearly someone was not ‘match fit’.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Sounds like the ACCC’s looking for a $250 million penalty. Now surely, if something’s so egregious that it warrants a 1/4 billion dollar fine, we should be looking at prison time for the perpetrators as well? (I know, I know, tell ’im he’s dreaming…)

[dragon man]

as published 14 years agoEx-Qantas freight chief pays heavy price for cartelBruce McCaffrey's life has been turned upside down, writes Matt O'Sullivan.May 4.2009 QANTAS may have washed its hands of its role in a price-fixing scandal in the US but one of its former senior managers is still paying the price.
Bruce McCaffrey, 65, the former vice-president of freight for the Americas, will soon begin a six-month jail term for his part in a global air freight cartel among more than 30 airlines. He has already paid a $US20,000 fine after pleading guilty to fixing charges last May.
Although the airline has been hurt financially for its part in the racket - footing fines of more than $100 million in the US and Australia - no other Qantas managers have faced personal fines or time behind bars. A plea agreement reached with the US Department of Justice more than a year ago protected all of Qantas's management from prosecution.
McCaffrey's family and friends believe he has become a Qantas scapegoat. The five other freight employees who were excluded from the plea deal have avoided penalties.
The 26-year Qantas veteran was the first airline executive anywhere to agree to serve jail time for his role in the cartel.
The airlines involved in the cartel, which included British Airways and Korean Air, were first prosecuted in the US, triggering almost identical action worldwide. Qantas's admission of its role has meant that the legal pursuit - apart from class actions - has been concluded in Australia and the US, but settlements in Europe and New Zealand are yet to be reached. European authorities are expected to give Qantas a substantial penalty as early next month.
McCaffrey was due to begin his US jail term last month, but his New York lawyer told the Herald a date was still to be finalised.
His jail term had originally been set to begin in September but it was delayed because he needed a kidney transplant. McCaffrey also suffers from the after-effects of stroke, rheumatoid arthritis, hypertension and an injured knee and broken hip.
His sister, Karen McCaffrey, wrote in a character reference that his family and friends were "devastated, knowing he was the one taking the brunt of the blame for this crime".
"It seems that Qantas could care less about Bruce; he is no longer an employee, so they pinned him in a corner, and now they are hanging their loyal messenger. They apparently don't care what happens to Bruce, as long as their Australian management are not fined or sentenced."As a middle manager, four tiers below the chief executive, McCaffrey reported to supervisors in Sydney. But his superiors will not face criminal punishment. They cannot be extradited to the US to face charges because price-fixing conduct is not a criminal offence in Australia.
"Why is it that senior management, the ones making all the decisions, are not forced to face these charges?" Ms McCaffrey said. "They refuse to be extradited back to this country to testify, for they know they are the guilty parties."
His lawyers have argued that the plan to engage in price-fixing came from Sydney hierarchy. "At Qantas, the plan to engage in price-fixing emanated from Sydney, which gave direction to Qantas managers around the world, including Mr McCaffrey, to co-ordinate certain aspects of pricing with their colleagues at other airlines," the lawyers told the judge.
Carl Fiel, a former Qantas executive in the US, also wrote in a reference that he was appalled by "the very unfair treatment" his former workmate received from the airline. Qantas declined to comment on claims that McCaffrey had been a scapegoat.
The executive, based in Los Angeles, was the first individual to co-operate with US investigators and plead guilty. The investigation has resulted in fines for airlines including Qantas, British Airways and Japan Airlines totalling more than $US1 billion. Last week a former freight boss for the Dutch airline Martinair agreed to serve eight months' jail and pay a $US20,000 fine, taking to four the number of executives who have pleaded guilty in the US.
The pursuit of airlines involved in the cartel has led to regulators - especially those in Europe and the US - taking a harder look at arrangements between carriers. Two weeks ago the European Commission began two separate investigations into seven airlines that have co-operated on trans-Atlantic routes. The European authorities are targeting airlines, including BA and American Airlines, which operate under the Oneworld banner for flights between the US and Europe and the Star Alliance.
The commission believes the level of co-operation, such as joint management of schedules, capacity and pricing, is "far more extensive than the general co-operation between these airlines and other airlines which are part of the Star and Oneworld alliances".
The Australian investigation into the cartel is now in its final phase. So far Qantas is the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's biggest scalp in a two-year inquiry that has been the largest and most expensive in its history.
Singapore Airlines is the first carrier to fight the Australian regulator's claims that it broke the law by colluding with rivals to set high freight and security surcharges. The case against the Asian carrier was back in the Federal Court in Sydney last month, and Singapore Airline's lawyers contested the commission's definition of a market. Last Thursday Cathay Pacific also began fighting claims it had colluded with rivals after the Australian regulator began legal action.
Qantas, on the other hand, has largely avoided a public fight. It is banking on its assistance in investigations in Europe and New Zealand leading to lighter penalties. But for McCaffrey the real fight has only just begun.


Remember this? They will desperately be looking for a scapegoat, they have form

[RealSatoshi]

...flights cancelled by Qantas between May to July 2022.
The timeline is obvious here: Backing up the truck to boost the bottomline before the end of FY22 :sad:

As the Qantas Group Chief Financial Officer (circa 2019 onwards), this really is a bad look for Chief Executive Officer-designate Vanessa Hudson - not the way you would want to finish in a role and/or start a new one...

[directsosij]

250 million? Not to worry, a 2 year pay freeze across the group will sort that out nicely. Wait for it.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Sounds like the ACCC’s looking for a $250 million penalty. Now surely, if something’s so egregious that it warrants a 1/4 billion dollar fine, we should be looking at prison time for the perpetrators as well? (I know, I know, tell ’im he’s dreaming…)

try $600 million!

https://www.9news.com.au/national/qantas-should-pay-record-breaking-six-hundred-million-dollar-fine-accc-chair-says/e8405b27-874e-482d-8f92-bc247769bc1f

[artee]

try $600 million!

https://www.9news.com.au/national/qantas-should-pay-record-breaking-six-hundred-million-dollar-fine-accc-chair-says/e8405b27-874e-482d-8f92-bc247769bc1f

stet

$250 million is actually the correct number. There was a misunderstanding after a question by PK (Patricia Karvelas):Qantas should be fined ‘hundreds of millions’ if guilty to send message to companies, ACCC says (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/01/qantas-tickets-cancelled-flights-penalty-fine-accc)The consumer watchdog wants to see Qantas hit with hundreds of millions of dollars of penalties if its legal action alleging the airline was selling tickets already cancelled flights (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/31/accc-qantas-legal-action-allegedly-sold-tickets-for-cancelled-flights) succeeds.

Gina Cass-Gottlieb, chair of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), said on Friday she wanted the Qantas case to deliver a new record penalty for consumer law breaches to scare other companies that had stopped fearing such fines.

Speaking on ABC Radio National, Cass-Gottlieb noted the current record penalty for a breach of Australia’s consumer law was $125m – issued to Volkswagen in 2019 (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/20/volkswagen-fined-record-125m-for-misleading-australian-consumers-over-diesel-emissions) for deceiving customers over diesel emissions – and said she was hopeful that, if found in breach of the law, Qantas should face a fine significantly higher.

Host Patricia Karvelas asked Cass-Gottlieb: “Are you talking over $300 million?”

Cass-Gottlieb replied: “We would want to get to more than twice that figure.”

The ACCC later clarified that Cass-Gottlieb had meant more than $250m, which is twice the current record penalty.

The watchdog alleges Qantas engaged in false, misleading or deceptive conduct in advertising and selling tickets for more than 8,000 flights (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/31/accc-qantas-legal-action-allegedly-sold-tickets-for-cancelled-flights) between May and July 2022 that the airline had already cancelled in its system.

“So this will be an important case for us in that regard.”

Cass-Gottlieb said that as well as being significant for the ACCC, it was “also a process for the court to feel comfortable to move to higher levels in respect of breaches of the consumer law”.

“We consider it’s important enough that we need to set really high standards of performance in engaging with every ordinary Australian consumer.”

[RealSatoshi]

The ACCC later clarified that Cass-Gottlieb had meant more than $250m, which is twice the current record penalty.
The next Blackswan event that will nuke your upcoming EBA negotiations - it's approacing V1 right in front of your eyes.

$250 Million is 5X the projected spend on pay increases for EBA-covered employees in FY23 :eek:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1700x90/screenshot_2023_09_01_at_12_03_19_3cf4fef0c96b6000061092572e 9eacd6da119ecb.png

[RealSatoshi]

No they should just remove all government employees, politicians and judges.

Alan Joyce reviews exclusive Qantas Chairman’s Lounge membership list (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/airports/alan-joyce-reviews-exclusive-qantas-chairmans-lounge-membership-list/news-story/aebfe832f8d4220daa1c68b789bcfc4a)

Maybe AJ does read PPRuNe after all :}

[dragon man]

Print articleOpinion https://archive.md/BNb02/29b9fad5aeff713e5b37922a9b8e5ce67e4d724d.pngThe end of the house of 10,000 favoursA secretive VIP booking unit was at the centre of a decades-long campaign to make Qantas Australia’s most influential company.
Aaron Patrick (https://archive.md/o/BNb02/https://www.afr.com/by/aaron-patrick-j7gdh)Senior correspondentSep 1, 2023 – 12.10pm
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Around the corporate affairs offices of Qantas Airways they used to joke that the airline should be known as the House of 10,000 favours.
The rich, famous and powerful were serviced by a secret, dedicated office located in Canberra known as the VIP booking unit. Upgrades, ticket changes, refunds. If the airline considered you worthy, you were treated as special.
The approach was driven, according to a former executive, by two Qantas CEOs who had emerged from the world of influence peddling, James Strong and Geoff Dixon. https://archive.md/BNb02/7e7012379eff4a4d2017a2dcb74cd951f52b2370.webp James Strong was chief executive of Qantas from 1993 to 2001. Ben Rushton Rarely, in transport companies, do marketers become chief executives. Qantas was different. Much of its success as a company, and some of its current problems, came from an awareness that running a successful airline can be as much about lobbying as flying planes on time.
Qantas was privatised between 1992 and 1995. When Strong, a former mining lobbyist, was about to be appointed Qantas chief executive in 1993 he was described as (https://archive.md/o/BNb02/https://www.afr.com/politics/james-strong-19930805-jl1nx)a “great communicator, a great motivator, but not a great manager”. In 2001 Strong was succeeded by Geoff Dixon, who had developed a spendthrift reputation running marketing at a now-defunct airline called Ansett.
Strong and Dixon kept Qantas close to the government, while building up affection among the Australian public – not through cheap fares, but excellent marketing.
The now-famed Chairman’s Lounge was central to the strategy. Members, accepted by invitation only, walked through the doors marked “private” where they entered one of the best networking opportunities in business and politics.
They were allocated into higher classes of customers, which meant they got better seats, and more frequent flyer and status points. Given most members were travelling for work, they effectively received free flights for their family members. Qantas CEOs personally vetted the list.
“The front of the cabin was aspirational,” the former executive said. “It was part of an emerging sense of Australian nationalism.”
Under the policy, federal politicians automatically received membership. During Labor governments, union officials have been allowed in too.
One Qantas executive worked out that a senior minister in the Howard government was fond of sausage rolls. He arranged for them to be served in the Chairman’s Lounge every time the House of Representatives finished work for the fortnight and MPs flew home.Ultimate networking opportunityGratuities were part of a bigger plan to make Qantas’ interests central to Australia’s. The company sponsored every football code and most major artistic events. It recruited Indigenous staff, and put dot-paintings on its aircraft. Its advertisements celebrated not the airline, but the nation.
The result was a form of bureaucratic capture. Transport ministers found their department an advocate for Qantas, which was often competing with airlines owned, or subsidised by, foreign governments.
One ex-minister said that he spoke to the airline’s current chief executive, Alan Joyce, once a month, and always found him amiable. He couldn’t quite work out why Qantas was so influential, but felt protectionist views held by some public servants were partly responsible. “Who wanted to be the departmental secretary who opposed Qantas?” he said.
Any minister who defied the airline, say by allowing greater competition from foreigners, risked being portrayed as anti-Australian. Decisions that might affect the airline but did not require cabinet approval would be referred to the prime minister’s chief of staff, or even to the prime minister directly, he said, ensuring they were subjected to high-level political assessment.
At the same time, the airline’s high status and perks, including heavily subsidised travel, attracted motivated and effective lobbyists, many of whom were former ministerial advisers.
Over the past decade, the most talked about of these was Olivia Wirth, a former adviser to ex-Liberal politician Joe Hockey and the wife of once-Labor leadership hopeful Paul Howes.
Joyce promoted Wirth from head of corporate affairs and public relations into an operational leadership position as chief customer officer, and later head of the airline’s frequent flyer program. https://archive.md/BNb02/192cb4f8c44dce52f2ddbf9d39aad6893a2d3a99.webp Olivia Wirth is a former political adviser who now runs the Qantas frequent flyer program. Bloomberg Public affairs specialists are acutely aware that they are often not seen as having the skills to run large businesses. Wirth seemed to prove the opposite, until this year, when the board decided not to appoint her as chief executive. The successful candidate, Vanessa Hudson, is an auditor.
An interesting counter-factual is whether Wirth would have chosen to keep some $500 million in flight credits (https://archive.md/o/BNb02/https://www.afr.com/rear-window/qantas-grand-theft-klepto-20230829-p5e0g8)or, if the competition regulator is correct, sell tickets (https://archive.md/o/BNb02/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/accc-sues-qantas-for-selling-tickets-on-cancelled-flights-20230831-p5e0v7) on non-existent flights. Both have proven to be public relations disasters.
Some people who worked at Qantas see the airline’s recent problems as a symptom of Joyce’s background. The Dublin maths lecturer marked a return, after Strong and Dixon, to a more operational CEO.
“Alan was on top of it until the last three years, when he started to believe his own PR,” the former executive said. “He’s a scheduler; not a marketer.”
The Chairman’s Lounge may be part of the story. Two years ago Qantas decided to change the type of person granted membership.
Being well-connected wasn’t enough. The airline wanted people who could switch corporate accounts to Qantas, according to one person familiar with the situation. People arrived who had never heard of Wirth and Howes, let alone gone to parties with them.
Told of his cancellation by email, a lounge user of 26 years complained: “What a pathetic performance from a company that claims to value customer loyalty higher than anything else. Singapore Airlines from now on.”
Among those disgruntled ex-members were some who had relationships with business columnists, politicians and regulators. The ill will generated by the cull filtered through the membranes of power, leaving Qantas where it is now: a house of diminished influence

[dragon man]

Why Qantas needs a new flight planThe Albanese government, and Qantas investors, staff and customers are all bracing to be hit by more turbulence. The warning lights have been flashing at Qantas for more than 12 months. But after the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission launched extraordinary legal action against the airline on Thursday, alleging it had sold tickets on 8,000 flights it had already cancelled (https://archive.vn/o/GUSRb/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5e0yq), the cockpit alarms are now blaring.
Qantas chairman Richard Goyder and incoming chief executive Vanessa Hudson clearly face a difficult task to steer their airline back into clear skies.
But a big question hangs over the Albanese government, and Qantas investors, staff and customers: who will be hurt when turbulence hits the airline once again? https://archive.vn/GUSRb/f811e2ce40533f169610ad48891db8d3281b3040.webp Qantas CEO Alan Joyce fronting the Senate cost of living inquiry this week. The Qantas debacle follows many examples of corporate mismanagement we’ve seen over the past decade. In a relatively small and concentrated economy, a steady stream of business giants have seen their reputations damaged by hubris and an unhealthy focus on short-term profit – Commonwealth Bank, Crown Resorts, The Star Entertainment Group, Rio Tinto, PwC.
But Qantas’ perceived national carrier status – a position it’s long traded on with its saccharine “Spirit of Australia” tagline (https://archive.vn/o/GUSRb/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5e0g8)– makes this an unusual case study.
This is a company whose extraordinary position in the domestic market has allowed it to see off numerous competitors, from Ansett, Impulse and Compass to the first version of Virgin Australia, and recover from aviation sector disasters faster than rivals here or abroad.
This is a company whose political clout has been unchallenged for decades, even surviving chief executive Alan Joyce’s decision to ground the airline in 2011 during a bitter industrial relations battle.
But most of all, this is a company that counts a huge chunk of the population as customers. There would be few Australians who haven’t flown Qantas in the past decade, and while that has fuelled the airline’s dominance, it is now compounding the loss of trust Qantas has suffered.
Everyone either has a Qantas horror story, or knows someone who has. And if the ACCC’s case is successful, Australian travellers might come to see Qantas as the airline willing to rip its customers off by selling tickets on flights it knew would never take off. The airline has suffered a reputational blow that will be hard to recover from. And the blast radius is growing.
The timing of the ACCC’s legal action appears to have been calculated to inflict maximum impact on a company already struggling to hold on to the trust of customers.
If Joyce and Hudson had expected a lasting halo effect after delivering a record $2.6 billion profit on August 24 (https://archive.vn/o/GUSRb/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5dz12), then they would have been disappointed. https://archive.vn/GUSRb/556c44ef0aa3ef8ad8c867db4ac23c0f2130ce3d.webp Outgoing CEO Alan Joyce and CFO Vanessa Hudson, his successor, announce Qantas’ profit results on August 24. Dion Georgopoulos The pair insisted the result was proof Qantas had struck the right balance between shareholders, investors, customer and staff – the airline had rebuilt its financial position after the pandemic shutdown, showered staff with higher bonuses and built up a war chest for the biggest fleet refresh in its history. Hudson made it clear she was in lockstep with Joyce.
“We’re in the strongest position that we could have been with our balance sheet, but also with the work that’s been done to be able to deliver that future, and really confidently do that,” she told a packed media conference.
But the events of this week have posed questions about how this position of strength has been achieved.
The ACCC’s case raises obvious questions as to whether Qantas’ record profit was boosted by treating customers poorly. Allegedly selling fares on already cancelled flights is bad enough, but it’s worth noting the ACCC believes many of these cancellations were due not to weather or air traffic control matters, but to reasons that were within the airline’s control, including optimising network capacity, withdrawing from routes, or keeping hold of precious airport landing slots.
Beyond that, though, is a broader question as to whether Qantas’ record profit has been bolstered by favourable government policy that, once again, puts customers at a disadvantage.Joyce’s appearance on Monday at a senate hearing into cost of living pressures was hijacked by questions about Qantas’ role in lobbying the government to block Qatar Airways from increasing its flights to Australia, a move that Virgin Australia chief executive Jayne Hrdlicka claimed could have reduced international airfares by as much as a third. (https://archive.vn/o/GUSRb/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5e06h)
For weeks, Albanese government ministers, led by Transport Minister Catherine King, had been struggling to explain the decision, beyond citing vague national interest concerns.
But on Monday, Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones effectively suggested the government had chosen to protect Qantas’ viability and profitability over lower fares.
“We can drive prices down, but if we drive them down to a level where it’s actually unsustainable to run an airline, instead of having two carriers we will design our markets in a way which will make it unsustainable for the existing Australian-based carrier,” he said in response to questions from The Australian Financial Review. https://archive.vn/GUSRb/9dde62c19eb127b6b2f1c77f59f143d396747351.webp Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones effectively suggested the government had chosen to protect Qantas’ viability and profitability over lower fares. Natalie Boog Jones’ comments provoked fresh howls of outrage over Qantas’ political clout, which had been steadily building following the announcement of the Qatar decision and revelations by The Australian Financial Review’s Rear Window columnist Joe Aston that Qantas had gifted Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s 23-year-old son membership to the exclusive Chairman’s Lounge (https://archive.vn/o/GUSRb/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5dtf3).
The ACCC’s legal case has only made the government’s position more difficult. Standing in the trenches with Qantas in opposition to lower airfares is one thing, but standing up for an airline alleged to have taken money from customers for ghost flights is something else entirely. https://archive.vn/GUSRb/44b3be26442fa92423a6d1a32c5bdf7d79ea265b.webpTreasurer Jim Chalmers tried to recover some lost ground on Thursday afternoon, announcing the aviation sector would not be carved out of the government’s two-year review of competition policy, as has been previously suggested. But that’s unlikely to be enough to cauterise this wound for the government.
While Albanese and co are unlikely to want to perform an immediate backflip and review King’s decision to refuse Qatar Airways expanded air rights, one industry figure suggests an “elegant off-ramp” would be to announce a three-month review of the use of air rights by airlines from the United Arab Emirates, including Qantas’ code-sharing partner Emirates.
Australia’s agreement with the UAE allows 168 flights per week from this nation, but only 70 are actually being made. If this pattern held during the three-month review, the government could then allow Qatar Airways to increase from its 28 flights per week, thus exposing Qantas to more competition from Virgin, which aims to code-share with Qatar on the key route running between Australia and Europe, via the Middle East.
Another way for the government to put distance between itself and Qantas would be to use its aviation green paper – due out in coming weeks – to take a more proactive stance on competition and consumer matters.
While the government has been careful to de-link the following white paper with the 2021 review of the way aircraft landing slots are used at Sydney Airport, this also could form part of its arsenal.
While the recommendations from the 2021 review, conducted by former Productivity Commission head Peter Harris (https://archive.vn/o/GUSRb/https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5dxnr), have not been made public by successive federal governments, it is understood to advocate for greater scrutiny of how valuable landing slots at Sydney Airport are allocated and retained, and whether flight cancellations are being used to hoard slots, as the ACCC alleges.
The extent of slot hoarding and slot misuse is a big point of contention between Sydney Airport (which is obviously financially motivated to see more slots used) and Qantas (which says the airport’s margins are much larger than its own). But Harris found “it is unlikely that Australia is fully insulated from global bad practice” around slot hoarding and it is possible that the government could use a combination of the green paper and the Harris report as a tool to show it is serious about aviation competition, and that it is not afraid to bring Qantas to heel.For Qantas chairman Richard Goyder and Hudson, the question of how much political clout Qantas has lost, and what ramifications that might have, is tomorrow’s problem.
Their more pressing issue is how the company can win back the trust of the public and convince investors the company hasn’t sacrificed its long-term position in pursuit of short-term profits. https://archive.vn/GUSRb/586a889b14652c1b263ea9afb9f07f592f2afda2.webp Qantas chairman Richard Goyder Rhett Wymann Investor pressure is building on Goyder to take a more active role. Whether the chairman allowed Joyce to remain in his position for too long – he will formally say goodbye on November 3 at the Qantas annual general meeting after 15 years in the role – is arguably a moot point. It’s what Goyder does next that he will be judged by.
Replacing Joyce as the public face of the company, or at least minimising the CEO’s appearances in his final nine weeks at the helm, is seen as a good start by some investors; they argue Joyce has become synonymous with what one investor calls the Qantas bubble, where everything is rosy and suggestions of customer disenchantment are wrong. Even at the senate committee hearing on Monday, Joyce was still insisting Qantas customer satisfaction levels are heading back towards pre-COVID-19 levels.
Qantas insiders insist the company is not tone deaf and it does realise it has a real problem. But investors argue Goyder could learn much from the experience of CBA and Crown, which were arrogant in the face of heavy criticism before regulatory firestorms turned those businesses upside down.
There is also a view that Goyder needs to show accountability by suspending executive bonuses or part thereof, at least temporarily, until the ACCC case is concluded. Qantas has already flagged that the customer satisfaction criteria were given more weight in the determination of 2023 bonuses, and this will be reflected when the company releases its annual report in about a month. Insiders also say the Qantas board does have the power to clawback bonuses, which are typically locked up for four years. However, Joyce’s remaining performance rights converted to $10.8 million worth of shares on Friday and so will not be subject to clawback.
Qantas executives who’ve delivered a record profit might well feel investor focus on pay is unfair, but this is surely a moment for reflection for the board and management team as to whether Qantas has struck the right balance between short-term profitability and long-term sustainability. https://archive.vn/GUSRb/4a52b7c174aaeb1a3f053e9c4871de4eae1359a6.webp Vanessa Hudson may need a new flight plan when she takes over as Qantas CEO. Rhett Wyman That’s particularly the case for Hudson, who Qantas has sought to portray as the architect of the group’s post-COVID financial turnaround, which has seen $1 billion of structural costs ripped out of the business and profit margins soar thanks in part to surging fares; the operating margin in Qantas’ domestic business was 12.1 per cent in the 2019 financial year, but leapt to 18.2 per cent this year.Hudson’s stated mission has been to show investors that Qantas’ profits are big enough, and its balance sheet strong enough, that the airline can afford both its $15 billion fleet renewal and investor returns.
But she may now need a new flight plan. At the very least, a recalculation of expenses will be required, given ACCC boss Gina Cass-Gottlieb said on Friday (https://archive.vn/o/GUSRb/https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/qantas-facing-record-penalty-for-ghost-flights-20230831-p5e13b) she will seek penalties of at least $250 million against Qantas, and there may be further customer remediation required. Qantas has also backflipped on its decision to cancel all outstanding pandemic flight credits by December 31, which will come at a financial cost.
But if Hudson needs to reconsider the bigger question of how Qantas balances its necessary fleet investments, its level of customer service and prices and its returns to shareholders, then this will have ramifications for investors.
The group’s November 3 AGM could also be a flashpoint for Qantas’ directors, as investors question whether the board provided an appropriate level of challenge to Joyce and Hudson about the airline’s recovery strategy, and the potential for it to cause long-term damage.
The experience of the major banks after the royal commission, and Crown Resorts at Star Entertainment in the wake of their regulatory probes, suggests investors could demand change at board level. Any tensions may well surface at the AGM.
Of course, investors should be careful to exact a lesson out of this mess, too. While many had been happy to take the 40 per cent-plus return Qantas shares had delivered since the middle of calendar 2022, this week is a reminder that a short-term profit boom almost always comes with longer-term ramifications.
In a market dominated by supposedly long-term superannuation, it’s remarkable how frequently we seem to lose sight of that.

[TWT]

A lawyer from a well known law firm is saying it's not out of the question for criminal charges to be laid if warranted.

[dragon man]

A lawyer from a well known law firm is saying it's not out of the question for criminal charges to be laid if warranted.


I hope so.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Sounds like the ACCC’s looking for a $250 million penalty. Now surely, if something’s so egregious that it warrants a 1/4 billion dollar fine, we should be looking at prison time for the perpetrators as well? (I know, I know, tell ’im he’s dreaming…)


I wonder what strategic imperatives will be required from staff to cover that one.

[blubak]

they would be the same ones who strut around in the street oblivious to the sh5t the company has been serving up to customers for the last decade.
I hope they choke on the last latte before they are out the door.
Spot on there, the ones who stand in front of you & lie straight to your face about how they care about staff & customers.
The ones who are still telling the public how they have set up call centres with dedicated experts to solve your query about your money that has been in their bank account for more than 3 years.
They have gotten away with their dictatorship style management for far too long & now every 1 of these egomaniacs need to pay dearly for it.

[Mr Mossberg]

Once again, jail time for this? C'mon, how often have Australian courts punished white collar crime? There may have been some pissy little frauds punished this way, that's more a function of how much the perpetrator had available to spend on a legal fees. Rodney Adler is the last guy I can think of.

[HongKongflu]

They might pay a little fine, but they have already factored that in as a "cost of doing business". It won't come out of their pockets anyway, the staff & shareholders will be paying that bill. AJ and the "guys" will sleep like babies tonight and will be laughing all the way to the bank again tomorrow. They will finish up the day in the Chairman's lounge or something simular, sipping on a nice shiraz, comparing notes on what a bunch of suckers the staff, customers and regulators really are. Pure criminal masterminds, walking away with the whole stash & making it look easy.

[LAME2]

I predict another fall guy will be provided for those truely responsible.Judge John Bates told the hearing that he was bothered that those most responsible at Qantas for setting up the scheme will never face a US court.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-07-29/former-qantas-executive-jailed-over-price-fixing/456540

[Global Aviator]

How the hell can Hudson become the next CEO as she was CFO during this calamity.

Time for fresh faces outside of fort fumble.

Otherwise, nekminnit…………..

[SOPS]

How the hell can Hudson become the next CEO as she was CFO during this calamity.

Time for fresh faces outside of fort fumble.

Otherwise, nekminnit…………..


I was just thinking the same thing.

[blubak]

How the hell can Hudson become the next CEO as she was CFO during this calamity.

Time for fresh faces outside of fort fumble.

Otherwise, nekminnit…………..
Because she has signed her life away to being a good girl & never criticise her ex boss.
Nodded her head exactly how & when she was told.

[dragon man]

I thought it was telling that Hudson was no where to be seen at the Senate questioning of Joyce. I suspect she is trying to put as much daylight between herself and this disaster as is possible. Joyce is up there with Sol Trujillo when he was at Telstra.

[Global Aviator]

Because she has signed her life away to being a good girl & never criticise her ex boss.
Nodded her head exactly how & when she was told.

Haha love it and so true.

But seriously the C suite should all be held accountable not promoted, yeah right!

I still call Starya hommmmmmeeeeeeerer………. (Pan away to Alan sipping Billiecart on his balcony)!

[Jack D. Ripper]

Something is rotten in the STATE of Denmark

[dragon man]

Why a referendum on a Joyce to parliament would failParnell Palme McGuinness (https://www.smh.com.au/by/parnell-palme-mcguinness-p4yw3c)September 3, 2023 — 5.00am If there were a referendum held today on a Joyce to parliament, it would fail. The prime minister should reconsider his advocacy, lest he go down with it.

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has become a major drag on a prime ministership with alarming parallels to Qantas flights: oversold, likely to disappoint or be cancelled, and designed to privatise gains while socialising losses.

Anthony Albanese’s political honeymoon is over; now voters are keen to know how – what with the difficulty of cashing in flight credits and prices sky-high – he got tickets for a honeymoon in the first place.

In 2010, Albanese was named Aviation Minister of the Year (https://www.nswlabor.org.au/anthony_albanese); in the same year, The Australian Financial Review dubbed Joyce “the Wizard of Oz”. Joyce and Albanese were close even then, with the CEO praising Albanese (https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/speeches/alan-joyce-speech-mapping-our-future-infrastructure-of-the-sky/?print=1)as understanding “that a strong local aviation sector is essential to our national wellbeing”. The Wizard of Oz moniker proved prophetic. In the story, the wizard’s trickery is exposed, revealing a small man manipulating perceptions with pulleys and levers. Now Joyce’s magic trick has been demystified, his tawdry collection of political levers and accounting pulleys is on full display.

Qantas under Joyce is a case study of evasive accounting. Literally. In the Australian Institute of Company Directors’ course, Qantas is used as an example of accounting practices which are used to shape a narrative. Joyce likes to announce “underlying profit” to the media, which is a measure calculated to reflect a company’s truth about how much money it generates, rather than the truth generally arrived at under international accounting standards, found in the statutory accounts.

The institute teaches cohorts of company directors to look out for the discrepancies between the two truths. The way Qantas reports is legal, to be clear, but when I did the institute course last year, I bluntly paraphrased the Financial Literacy and Performance unit facilitator in my notes: “using ‘underlying profit’ as a measure in company accounts is a warning sign – underlying profit is often higher than statutory profit, so it can indicate that the company is hiding something”.

The government isn’t averse to a bit of post-modernist accounting in its own federal budget, perhaps one of the reasons Joyce is naturally simpatico in Canberra. The prime minister Albanese is also not a known fan of hard numbers, having chosen to study “political economy” at university. That’s the economics you’re doing when you’re not doing maths.

But for those who have the wherewithal to look, the signs have long been there that Qantas was having a lend and not a repay. As one jaded financial services professional points out, in 2014, Qantas announced a statutory loss of $2.8 billion (https://investor.qantas.com/FormBuilder/_Resource/_module/doLLG5ufYkCyEPjF1tpgyw/file/full-year-results/preliminaryFinalReport14.pdf). In the face of this terrible result, Joyce announced that Qantas would undergo a “transformation”. Miraculously, in 2015, he was able to announce a $975 million underlying profit (https://investor.qantas.com/FormBuilder/_Resource/_module/doLLG5ufYkCyEPjF1tpgyw/file/full-year-results/mediaReleaseResults15.pdf).
In that same year, Joyce commissioned and issued a Deloitte Access Economics report detailing “the Qantas Group’s contribution to the Australian Economy”. Unsurprisingly, it is splendiferous, finding that Qantas is an economic keystone which contributes 0.7 per cent of gross domestic product. Why did Qantas feel the need to issue such a document? Well, let’s just say it’s come in handy over the years.

In 2018, Joyce found himself defending the fact that the airline, despite “transformation”, had not paid tax in three years. Nothing to see here. “Corporations tax is a tax on profits,” he condescended (https://www.afr.com/policy/tax-and-super/thats-the-way-it-works-alan-joyce-on-why-qantas-pays-no-corporate-tax-20180215-h0w44g). “If you don’t make money, you don’t pay the tax.” And quite right he was. But Qantas profits bounce around erratically and quite conveniently.

A couple of years later, Qantas’ huge contribution to the national economy was augmented by its absolutely essential role in bringing home Australians stuck abroad. Between that and its contribution to the national economy, a $2 billion taxpayer handout to the airline was a no-brainer.

Except that Qantas didn’t bring many home, so it wasn’t. Qatar was the airline that flew most Australians home after Qantas parked its fleet in the Californian desert (https://simpleflying.com/qatar-airways-australia-repatriation-airline). Now that Qatar wants to add more flights, maybe reducing the cost of airfares a bit, Joyce is arguing that competition would kill the flying kangaroo and probably plunge the nation into penury. Don’t forget that 0.7 per cent of GDP!

But years of playing aerial acrobatics with the airline’s accounting is starting to catch up with the Irishman. Qantas was, until this past week, looking like it would hold onto the pandemic billions, hold onto customer credits issued due to COVID cancellations, and hold onto its uncompetitive position in the market.

Then Qantas was forced by public outcry to extend the life of credits for flights cancelled during the pandemic. They had been due to expire on December 31, meaning Qantas customers would have forfeited their money to the airline’s bottom line. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is also alleging Qantas sold tickets it knew it couldn’t honour, and ACCC chief Gina Cass-Gottlieb wants the penalty to be something that can’t be absorbed as a regular cost of doing business. She’s hinted she wants a fine of more than $500 million.

An adverse Federal Court finding could wipe out any profit for the airline. Now, remember it was only last week that Joyce told us he was going to repay the pandemic handout with corporate tax. Perhaps that idea won’t fly: “If you don’t make money, you don’t pay the tax.”

Qantas’ troubles have leapt out of the financial press and into the mainstream because they’re hitting regular folk where it hurts: right in the cost of living.

Meanwhile, in bad news for Canberra, Alan Fels, the former head of the competition watchdog, is making sure that politicians can’t slink out of the Chairman’s Lounge unimplicated. Fels told ABC radio this week, companies should be looking after shareholders but the government should be looking after consumers, not companies.

That’s a painful lesson for a Labor government to be schooled on publicly. As Qantas chairman Richard Goyder told the Australian Institute of Company Directors (https://www.aicd.com.au/leadership/types/thought/richard-goyder-speaks-out-how-boards-can-lead-the-way.html), “the biggest challenges are poor decisions made and also reputational issues”. If only Albanese had been across the details of the Joyce to parliament, he might have realised – as prime minister – what a reputational risk the relationship posed.

Parnell Palme McGuinness is managing director at award-winning campaigns firm Agenda C. She has done work for the Liberal Party and the German Greens.

[Ladloy]

Haha joyce to parliament

[Chronic Snoozer]

Why a referendum on a Joyce to parliament would failParnell Palme McGuinness (https://www.smh.com.au/by/parnell-palme-mcguinness-p4yw3c) An adverse Federal Court finding could wipe out any profit for the airline. Now, remember it was only last week that Joyce told us he was going to repay the pandemic handout with corporate tax. Perhaps that idea won’t fly: “If you don’t make money, you don’t pay the tax.”

How can Q "repay" a handout with tax Q owes? Do pollies fall for this card trick?

[dr dre]

Except that Qantas didn’t bring many home, so it wasn’t. Qatar was the airline that flew most Australians home after Qantas parked its fleet in the Californian desert

I hate that talking point. It’s not a difference between airlines, it’s a difference between governments. The Qatari government made a decision to fund their state airline to keep flying during Covid, even though most flights would’ve had minuscule amounts of people onboard. Any airline with those pax loads operating under free market principles would’ve gone bankrupt within days. Qatar wasn’t “re-uniting Aussies” out of the goodness of their heart. It was a government funded PR campaign for the nation.

The Australian government gave some handouts but declined to take ownership of the carrier to keep its operations mostly running. They most certainly could have.

[Beer Baron]

Well said Dr Dre.
It’s also interesting to note that Qatar also received Australia government “handouts” in the form of the multiple weekly IFAM flights, yet I don’t hear anyone clamouring for Akbar to pay that back. Usual double standards.

[dr dre]

Well said Dr Dre.
It’s also interesting to note that Qatar also received Australia government “handouts” in the form of the multiple weekly IFAM flights, yet I don’t hear anyone clamouring for Akbar to pay that back. Usual double standards.

Not just QR, there were plenty of foreign carriers funded with Australian taxpayer handouts to operate pax and cargo flights and some of those carriers were fully foreign state backed as well.

But as usual QF cops it all. I see the media have made a mountain of how some washed up AFL “star” had a sook on TV about his flight being pushed back a few hours, as if it was the end of the world and from now on he’s only flying VA despite QF having a much better OTP (71% vs 59%) and lower cancellation rate (3.8% to 5.6%) than VA in the latest BITRE stats. And I believe Spud Dutton had to throw the boot in as well this morning.

Just the typical pile on.

[MickG0105]

Well said Dr Dre.
It’s also interesting to note that Qatar also received Australia government “handouts” in the form of the multiple weekly IFAM flights, yet I don’t hear anyone clamouring for Akbar to pay that back. Usual double standards.
And I seem to recall that Qatar were stinging punters with some pretty exorbitantly priced fares at the time.

[cLeArIcE]

Not just QR, there were plenty of foreign carriers funded with Australian taxpayer handouts to operate pax and cargo flights and some of those carriers were fully foreign state backed as well.

But as usual QF cops it all. I see the media have made a mountain of how some washed up AFL “star” had a sook on TV about his flight being pushed back a few hours, as if it was the end of the world and from now on he’s only flying VA despite QF having a much better OTP (71% vs 59%) and lower cancellation rate (3.8% to 5.6%) than VA in the latest BITRE stats. And I believe Spud Dutton had to throw the boot in as well this morning.

Just the typical pile on.
I 100% agree with you but, it's all symptomatic of a company that has put short term profit ahead of long term success and a toxic management culture that treats staff and customers with utter contempt. Joyce and the board are absolutely the driver of that and it's good to see questions being asked about the way they conduct business. (Finally)

There is huge damage being done to the brand but, maybe this is the pain we need to endure to see systematic changes at all levels. Aren't you sick of being treated like garbage and part of a working environment where all of your colleagues absolutely hate the company to such an extent they go out of their way to **** it over in every way.

Although I fear that when the next outrage hits the 24 hour news cycle we will all go back to the status quo. Joyce will sail off into the sunset with his millions and Vanessa will increase the beatings further until morale improves.

[Jack D. Ripper]

Although I fear that when the next outrage hits the 24 hour news cycle we will all go back to the status quo. Joyce will sail off into the sunset with his millions and Vanessa will increase the beatings further until morale improves.

Spot on!

The entire executive team bar 1 have all grown up under Joyce and his cronies. They have ingratiated themselves with the little emperor by emulating him. Even now I have no doubt they are admiring his latest garb in typical obsequious form.

Vanessa et al only know one playbook, meanwhile the chairman thought his donkey was Phar lap.

This lot don’t know how to change…. Even IF they wanted to.

[dragon man]

This nails it and he carries weight IMO




Qantas facing ‘extraordinary decline’ in trust and reputationdata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7

By ROBERT GOTTLIEBSEN (https://archive.md/o/GU55M/https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/robert-gottliebsen)
8:13PM SEPTEMBER 3, 2023

Qantas is the worst failure of board governance since the AMP.
And, just as happened at AMP, the first step in repairing the catastrophic damage to the value of the Qantas brand is that the chairman must stand down as soon as possible. And the same applies to the chief executive.
In the case of the Qantas chairman, Richard Goyder has a wonderful record of past achievement, but he took on two of the toughest chairmanships in the land, Qantas and Woodside. And then he added a task many times more difficult than either of those two chairmanship: the chairman of the AFL Commission. It was too much.
Chief executive Alan Joyce has done many wonderful things at Qantas but CEOs who stay on longer than 10 years become much riskier for the chairman and the board, because they often become too dominant.
What makes the governance breakdown of Qantas so much more serious is that it was not caused by a sudden event like the ACCC charges against the company for selling airline tickets for cancelled flights. Over two or three years Qantas suffered an unprecedented destruction of the value of its main asset, and the issues causing the catastrophic decline were not tackled by the board – either because of ignorance or a failure to do their job.
Roy Morgan Research actually documented how Qantas plummeted from being one of the country’s most trusted brands to one of its most distrusted, and that in 2022-23 the decline was gathering pace. The Qantas brand ranking fell an unprecedented 181 places in the nine months to June 30.
In the same period Australia’s most distrusted brand, Optus, fell only 18 places, or 10 per cent of the Qantas fall.
Every board alarm bell should have rung, particularly as Morgan chillingly isolated what was outraging Qantas’s actual and potential customers: “There was moral blindness everywhere, from appalling call centre delays, cancelled flights and snail’s-pace fare refunds to a leader turning a blind eye to the anguish of tens of thousands of once-trusting customers.
“But the biggest example of Qantas’s moral blindness was Alan Joyce refusing to pay back any of the $2bn in corporate welfare, including JobKeeper,” Morgan said.
A proper board investigation into the Morgan findings would have revealed the complaints that arose from the sale of cancelled tickets, now the subject of an ACCC charge.
Unless Qantas plans to challenge the ACCC charges, the company faces more blows.
First, if the ACCC case goes to court, I would be stunned if the fine isn’t much greater than what the ACCC is seeking. Second, all the cancellations and fraudulent ticket sales have to be reversed, and there may be additional damages. Then comes the enormous task of starting to repair the damage that has been done. That task is urgent and cannot start while the current chairman and CEO are in office.
Whenever a situation like this arises, usually more disastrous events emerge. I have no evidence to suggest there is a link between the unprecedented Qantas backing of the divisive Yes campaign and the government’s decision to block extra flights by Qatar airlines in the Middle East.
But almost certainly parliament is going to demand that this be investigated, which means that more damage for the brand.
In addition, like all other large companies, Qantas will be aware from its legal advice that the public debate about the voice to parliament is not the main game.
The Uluru agenda of self-*determination, a separate system of law and international relations, plus heavy reparations will not be achieved by the voice to parliament. Rather it is the voice to the public service where the voice body will have the power to completely clog up the running of government to achieve the Uluru agenda.
Maybe the Qantas board needed to look more closely at such an alignment of the company’s main asset, the Qantas brand, with such a divisive issue among its *customers.
When company boards have a strong chief executive, it is very tempting to just leave matters to the chief executive and top *management.
And in the case of Qantas it worked for a long time. But not in recent times.
To be fair to Alan Joyce, along with the board he had reduced the capacity of the airline in line with the sharp reduction in passenger numbers, and when the numbers exploded unexpectedly the airline was not prepared to handle it. That sort of mistake is understandable and not a governance breakdown. But then came all the rest.
The new CEO of Qantas, Vanessa Hudson, will need to distance herself from her predecessor and cut a very different path as she tries to restore value in the brand. It is usually best for an outsider to take on this task, but there are precedents where long-term executives have been able to turn the company’s brand value around (CBA is a good example).
Qantas shareholders will have to hope that this is one of those occasions. But she has no hope of doing that unless the board recognises what has happened and undertakes the required surgery that is essential in any rescue.
Another issue which will come to the fore is Alan Joyce’s retirement package. Only the board and top management know how Joyce’s agreement was structured. But there are precedents for amounts of money to be held back assuming the agreement allows it. In 2016, one of the great executives of Rio Tinto, Sam Walsh, found himself accused of bad practices and the board held back part of his retirement package until the matter was sorted out. Sam (not surprisingly in my view) was cleared and he received his full retirement package.

[soseg]

Not just QR, there were plenty of foreign carriers funded with Australian taxpayer handouts to operate pax and cargo flights and some of those carriers were fully foreign state backed as well.

But as usual QF cops it all. I see the media have made a mountain of how some washed up AFL “star” had a sook on TV about his flight being pushed back a few hours, as if it was the end of the world and from now on he’s only flying VA despite QF having a much better OTP (71% vs 59%) and lower cancellation rate (3.8% to 5.6%) than VA in the latest BITRE stats. And I believe Spud Dutton had to throw the boot in as well this morning.

Just the typical pile on.

You mean how QF are masters of rescheduling flights so the delay figures aren't accurate at all?

[dr dre]

You mean how QF are masters of rescheduling flights so the delay figures aren't accurate at all?

Then wouldn’t they be much closer to 100%? The long term average was around 80-85% OTP. If the figures were being fudged I think they wouldn’t fudge them to below the historical norm.

[soseg]

Then wouldn’t they be much closer to 100%? The long term average was around 80-85% OTP. If the figures were being fudged I think they wouldn’t fudge them to below the historical norm.

Gotta keep things realistic. That or POCO or whoever decides to re-schedule delayed flights has only so many resources. I'm sure if they were on top of it all they'd reschedule everything and OTP would be close to flawless.

The fact is they constantly do this and its BS. Especially when the company is at fault over the delay.

[Slippery_Pete]

The whole thing has become untenable. Joe Aston has seen it happening for years, it’s only now that every other journalist in the country is finally piling on.

Surely the CEO and Chairman will go in the next few days? They must know their jig is finally up.

And the only way Hudson stays is if she comes out immediately and denounces what they’ve done, distances herself from it, and swiftly makes significant repatriations for staff and customers.

News articles now appearing suggesting there may be insider trading allegations added to the list.

[SandyPalms]

Speaking of QF being bastards, has there been any decision on the A380 SO disagreement that QF took to the federal court in attempt to bully AIPA into allowing them to ignore black and white statements in the contract?

[Lookleft]

But as usual QF cops it all. I see the media have made a mountain of how some washed up AFL “star” had a sook on TV about his flight being pushed back a few hours, as if it was the end of the world and from now on he’s only flying VA despite QF having a much better OTP (71% vs 59%) and lower cancellation rate (3.8% to 5.6%) than VA in the latest BITRE stats. And I believe Spud Dutton had to throw the boot in as well this morning.

Just the typical pile on.

Your attitude reminds me of the response to the appalling LOSA on the 747 fleet in the early noughties. "We mark ourselves harder than other airlines" "The auditors are biased against Qantas" "Other airlines are too easy on themselves". The audit result was spot on and it led to the vertical promotion policy. Its not a pile on, its simply that what has been known internally is now in the public domain. Qantas has controlled the media narrative for a long time and now it can't. Hopefully the long suffering staff of the Qantas Group can see the Emperor publicly dethroned.

[Chronic Snoozer]

From another thread. Aston is......eloquent.
The Qantas board still hasn’t quite paid Joyce his long-term bonus for 2023, which is another wheelbarrow of shares worth $8 million, or his short-term cash bonus for 2023 of around $4 million – his reward for leaving a gigantic turd in the punch bowl at his retirement party.

https://www.afr.com/rear-window/qantas-board-microdosing-reality-freebasing-delusion-20230903-p5e1nh

https://twitter.com/mrjoeaston/status/1698268598207406286

Apparently Alan doesn't think he is a public figure. Saturation media coverage seems to indicate otherwise.

[The The]

ASIC should be investigating AJ for insider trading.

1. He sold large share parcels during company buy back, maximising his return. He would have known if and when future buy backs were planned and planned his selling accordingly. The May buy back was extended into June, just coincidentally when AJ needed cash for his new pad.

2. He sold shares whilst certainly knowing QF was being investigated by the ACCC and that the investigation and potential fines would be market sensitive information.

Come on ASIC, do your job!

[1A_Please]

ASIC should be investigating AJ for insider trading.

1. He sold large share parcels during company buy back, maximising his return. He would have known if and when future buy backs were planned and planned his selling accordingly. The May buy back was extended into June, just coincidentally when AJ needed cash for his new pad.

2. He sold shares whilst certainly knowing QF was being investigated by the ACCC and that the investigation and potential fines would be market sensitive information.

Come on ASIC, do your job!
There is a definite issue in that QF management would've known the ACCC was on their tail as ACCC has gained much of the information through requesting information from QF under compulsory disclosure requirements that gives ACCC access to company records when doing an investigation. QF did not disclose that they were being investigated to the ASX but management and the board were fully aware it was occurring so trading in company shares by these parties during this period may indeed breach insider trading rules.

[dragon man]

Qantas board in the firing line of Joyce’s parting PR grenadehttps://archive.vn/muVmN/f7ee108c5a773f45efde4e970095474aa7105e1c.webpElizabeth Knight (https://archive.vn/o/muVmN/https://www.smh.com.au/by/elizabeth-knight-hve4o) Qantas’ outgoing chief executive Alan Joyce has delivered a hideous parting gift to the airline – a public relations grenade, the damage from which could take years for his successors to fix.
The public pressure on Qantas has been relentless, and punishing the airline’s top brass for their seemingly astounding complacency will require many uncomfortable walk-backs, most notably from Qantas chairman Richard Goyder.
First, Goyder will have to concede Joyce may not be the greatest ever chief executive. That would be a big concession, given how effusive Goyder has been in his praise of Joyce. Goyder has also been remarkably muted in his public comments, even as the Qantas brand is shredded around him. https://archive.vn/muVmN/99a8c84ced9ce0e3a1981cd0f123bdfae047242f.webp Qantas chairman Richard Goyder (left) and CEO Alan Joyce.CREDIT: LOUIE DOUVIS Next, Qantas’ major shareholders might have to acknowledge that the airline has a bigger public responsibility than just churning out record profits.
Then there is Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who might have to admit that his government has made a poor judgement call on the request from Qatar Airways for extra flights. The fallout from that decision continues to hang over the Albanese government, which chose to give Qantas a financial leg up by blunting Qatar Airway’s moves.
For Qantas’ incoming chief executive Vanessa Hudson, who was in part appointed as a foil to Joyce, mending the fractured relationship between the airline and its disaffected customers will take a mammoth effort.
Hudson should have been the fresh face of Qantas but instead will take up the role of chief litigator in two upcoming legal battles – the first, a shareholder class action claiming it misled customers over refunds, and the more damaging case being mounted by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, which alleges the airline engaged in misleading and deceptive conduct when it sold tickets for flights it had already cancelled.
Hudson also made the rookie error of tying herself too closely to Joyce. For example, when he farewelled shareholders and analysts at his final profit briefing, Hudson declared staff were “blessed” to have had Joyce as their leader.
But for Hudson to avoid being mired in the Joyce customer relations swamp, she needs the help of the board – which has been studiously avoiding any move that looks like its holding Joyce accountable. https://archive.vn/muVmN/4613bb2a74e6e3387972137e19f9638844beaf12.webp ACCC chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb has crashed Alan Joyce’s farewell tour.CREDIT: MICHAEL QUELCH; DION GEORGOPOULOS But how can the board’s chairman, Goyder, exercise any discretion the board may have to claw back Joyce’s performance-based bonuses when he has regularly described him as the country’s best chief executive?
Inadvertently or not, Goyder has painted himself into a corner.
The board has the option to ask Joyce to leave the company ahead of his official departure date in November, but there is no suggestion of this. In a practical sense, an earlier departure of Joyce wouldn’t disadvantage Qantas given he is already leaving in a couple of months, and it would improve the optics.
Instead, the board opted for a cookie-cutter statement on Monday, saying it would review the allegations made by the ACCC. It also took issue with what it believed was an unfair comparison between the airline selling tickets to flights that had been cancelled and financial institutions that were previously found to have charged fees for no service.
Qantas says these customers were offered alternative flights or refunds. (Of course this would be cold comfort for the person who missed their business meeting, or their friend’s wedding, and had to navigate Qantas’ Byzantine refunds policy.)
The difficulty in dealing with Qantas when attempting to change flights or get refunds back in 2022 was legendary. Customers complained that it was near impossible to navigate the process online and call centre wait times ballooned out to 14 hours.
And then there are those who attempted to redeem credits for the same destinations, only to find the price had risen significantly.
The statement from the board on Monday said it recognised Qantas’ reputation had already been hit hard – and that was before the ACCC action. So the regulator’s legal action has just moved the dial for Goyder and Co from disastrous to Defcon 2.
Not that the board would be unaware of how furious its customers are about the way they had been treated. Over the past week, social media, mainstream media and talkback radio has been a flooded with complaints about Qantas.
Having misread the public sentiment on Qantas, the Albanese government is now having to deal with division within its own party’s ranks, with Queensland and South Australia now questioning the Qatar decision.
And the country’s largest travel agency, Flight Centre, has mounted an advertising campaign applying even more pressure to have the government reverse the decision.
But nothing puts a board under pressure like the share price. And on that front, Qantas’ stock has dipped more than 7 per cent over the past week, as shareholder goodwill for a record $2.5 billion profit clashes with the moral outrage about the airline’s perceived impudence.

[Seabreeze]

When I read about the absurd amounts consumed by AJ, I am reminded of Monty Python's Mr Creosote

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eAUYO6AY1ow

[SHVC]

Can’t wait for VH first email to us. Full of fluffy $hit and welcome to country I bet.

[dragon man]

FLYING KANGAROO OR LURKING LOUNGE LIZARD?
David PenberthyEvery man has his price. Mine was a Neil Perry club sandwich. For a few sensational years I was a member of the Qantas Chairman’s Lounge. It was an absurd benefit bestowed by dint of marriage. As the husband of a then federal politician, my associate membership turned up unexpectedly in the post some time in 2016. A sexy matt black card, set in a swanky presentation envelope with a personal welcome note from Alan Joyce himself. I umm-ed and ah-ed about the ethics of accepting it but figured no taxpayers were being harmed in the process, and I never reported on aviation so, what the hey, it’s club sandwich time. The sandwiches, I should add, were excellent. As indeed was everything.

In 2019 Dad and I spent a week in New Orleans. We had done New Orleans right, meaning we had done a number on ourselves. We saw about 20 bands in seven days, ate turtle soup, oysters Rockefeller and table-flambeed steak Diane at Brennans, Commanders Palace, Galatoires and Cochon, drank our body weight in bloody Marys, sazeracs and hurricanes. On one action-packed day my medically trained father saved a meth addict from swallowing his tongue while having an epileptic fit, Dad drily saying “Good thing your mother isn’t here”, while I rang 911 and gave the ambos the poor chap’s location.

We needed to return home and re-enter civil society.

Our American Airlines flight from Louis Armstrong International to Dallas Forth Worth was cancelled when lightning hit our plane while preparing for takeoff. We were stuck in New Orleans for another day and missed our Qantas flight from Dallas to Sydney. We were completely stuffed as the flights weren’t connected, so when we made it to Dallas the following day, Qantas figured we were just no-shows. We wound up stuck in a giant, motionless queue with hundreds of people in the same situation, nervously watching the clock as the economy check-in staff moved at glacial pace towards resolving our concerns. We were going to miss our flight home again.

I told Dad I had an idea. “Maybe we should give the Chairman’s card a whirl and see if it helps?”

We approached the first-class desk. I was dressed like a dag in jeans, sneakers and a New Orleans Saints NFL T-shirt. The guy at the counter said tersely: “No cutting the queue, this area is for first-class passengers only.” “Yes, I know, I was just wondering if, as Qantas Chairman’s Lounge members, we are in the right spot?” His demeanour changed in an instant. “Oh sir, I’m sorry, you shouldn’t be here at all! See that escalator? Just go up there to those double doors and they will look after you.”

The doors opened. Dad and I were bathed in golden light. We were in the American Airlines First Class lounge. I explained our situation to the concierge, a stunning 40-something Texan woman with sculpted American hair. “Now Dave, I’m a Cowboys girl and normally wouldn’t help a Saints fan, but in your case I’m going to make an exception. Y’all get yourselves a drink. Leave your passports with me and I’ll have this sorted in a flash.”

Three minutes later we were sitting in deep leather chairs eating jumbo shrimp and veal tournedos with asparagus and bearnaise sauce and sharing a bottle of Hugel Riesling. The concierge sashayed over just before the cheese plate arrived and handed us our passports and boarding passes.

I mention this story for two reasons: one, it was one of the more entertaining experiences of my life, and two, nothing exposes the yawning gulf in the travelling experience than the two worlds we inhabited at DFW that night. By simply flashing that little black card, we exited a miserable place where frazzled travellers were crying and shouting, recharging dead phone batteries on powerpoints in the wall, waiting for toilet cubicles to become free, sleeping on the ground, paying through the nose for food and drinks … to another where a woman who looked like Raquel Welch would sort out your flight dramas while you ate giant prawns someone had already peeled for you and then had a hot shower
with exotic unguents and poultices before floating on to the plane.

Herein lies the problem with the Chairman’s Lounge. As I said, the cost of running something as extravagant as the Chairman’s Lounge is borne entirely by Qantas. But there is no quid without a pro quo. For Qantas, the Chairman’s Lounge is akin to what’s known in international relations as soft diplomacy. Whatever its actual costs are to the national carrier,
the unquantifiable benefits to the airline are threefold: it makes Chairman’s Lounge members think more highly of Qantas, it makes them feel less inclined or wholly uninclined towards being critical of Qantas, and it gives them absolutely no capacity to relate to the lived experience of economy-class passengers.

Who are the people who find themselves in this happy situation? Only every senior decision-maker, policy-framer and opinion-shaper in the land, every federal MP, premier and opposition leader, many if not most state ministers, every senior judge, chief executives, senior members of the media, and all of their families, the happy hangers-on like my old man and I, living the maxim allez les bon temps rouler on Alan’s expense en route from The Big Easy.

I didn’t use the Chairman’s Lounge that often in Australia, mainly because I don’t travel much, but whenever I did I would bump into Labor, Liberal and Greens MPs who I knew through my work. In light of the scandals that have beset Qantas over the largesse afforded to Joyce, its treatment of its staff and customers and its reputational collapse versus historically less well-regarded airlines, you can’t help but wonder whether every one of them has been a bit co-opted by the chumminess of it all.

The motivation of Qantas in what is superficially an innocent act of corporate generosity was plainly illustrated by what happened when my wife quit politics. We received a letter from Qantas soon after explaining that regretfully her and my membership would be expiring.
I can’t stress enough, that is not a complaint. I should thank Qantas for all the fun I had. But it does say something about the transactional nature of the arrangement, where the intention quite clearly on the airline’s part is to make people in positions of policy influence feel indebted and co-opted, and to send them politely on their way when they return to being just another average punter.

A question for me here. Would
I have written this piece or others bagging Qantas if I were still a Chairman’s Lounge member? You would hope the answer to that is yes. Without fear or favour, to employ a journalistic cliche. But you know, those club sandwiches …

For what it’s worth, my theory is that the avalanche of media criticism this past few months has been like a dam wall bursting. Historically, the press had pulled its punches with the national carrier, in part because of the relationships outlined above. As Joyce and the airline were left exposed, as per the emperor’s clothes, fighting fires on so many fronts ranging from reliability to cost to remuneration to the uproar over Qatar’s expansion plans, the media has entered all-bets-are-off mode. About time too, frankly. It was all
a bit cute, and suss, and as Groucho Marx said, I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member

[Global Aviator]

FLYING KANGAROO OR LURKING LOUNGE LIZARD?
Three minutes later we were sitting in deep leather chairs eating jumbo shrimp and veal tournedos with asparagus and bearnaise sauce and sharing a bottle of Hugel Riesling. The concierge sashayed over just before the cheese plate arrived and handed us our passports and boarding passes.


Love it and oh so true. The question is did you get handed first class or business boarding passes?

[DirectAnywhere]

For what it’s worth, my theory is that the avalanche of media criticism this past few months has been like a dam wall bursting. Historically, the press had pulled its punches with the national carrier,

Precisely. The staff have been saying these things for more than a decade, if anyone cared to listen.

Harbison amazingly wrote another puff piece, an Ode to Joyce if you will, only this weekend.

If Joe Aston and others had followed the late Steve Creedy’s ethos of pulling the pants off the corporate BS emanating from Coward St, Joyce and the board a little sooner, we might have discovered that under all that BS, the emperor really did have no clothes before the situation became obvious to even the most blinded of sycophant suckholes.

Much pain might have been avoided and the ‘Roo may be in far better shape than it finds itself today.

[Boe787]

Ben Sandilands was another old school journo as well,no puff pieces from Ben!