Light Aircraft lands on the A40 in Gloucestershire

[Glevum]

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/live-a40-plane-crash-aircraft-8669331

[serf]

Traffic on the left cracking on up the road!

[treadigraph]

Fournier RF-6.

[Brian Pern]

Many many many years ago, my PPL instructor said if all else fails, why not land on the motorway. Beats trying a field and hitting trees. Looks like a good safe result.

[NutLoose]

This is the one.

https://pilotweb.aero/news/tech-log-purchasing-a-fournier-rf6b-100-to-restore-8109934/

[Local Variation]

Many many many years ago, my PPL instructor said if all else fails, why not land on the motorway. Beats trying a field and hitting trees. Looks like a good safe result.

Seems an odd thing to suggest. Land on a motorway and potentially kill motorists as well.

Also many many years ago, I was involved in an engine failure low level directly over the M1.

The thought of aiming for the busy road beneath us never entered our heads and for me, rightly so.

[Compton3fox]

Recovery of the RF6...

https:/www.facebook.com/groups/5455505861192843/permalink/6462003943876358/

Photo credit: Dean Chamberlin.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x517/fb_img_1691700634063_3a084cdc20efd6deb35718b1e296775dcf3910e 5.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x560/fb_img_1691700641466_2da80f3fc8c6f17102b98dac92129d6e22941e9 6.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x934/fb_img_1691700652448_64bc0c87f10eb0df6c5010e5b07fef32cea5098 1.jpg

[Brian Pern]

Seems an odd thing to suggest. Land on a motorway and potentially kill motorists as well.

Also many many years ago, I was involved in an engine failure low level directly over the M1.

The thought of aiming for the busy road beneath us never entered our heads and for me, rightly so.

depends on your options, id rather risk landing in the flow of traffic than a field with unkown crop. But hey im just an old crusty jet driver, who hasnt been in a single engine in years.

[EXDAC]

Was lifting it by the spinner bulkhead really the best option? Maybe the insurance company already owned it but I'd have pulled the top cowling and lifted at the engine mount firewall clusters.

My current ride came with lift rings but I don't plan to land it on a guard rail just to see if the salvage crew is smart enough to use them.

[meleagertoo]

I find it simply incredible that any pilot would ever consider landing on such a busy road. It's an act of utter desperation to land on even a fairly empty road, (far too narrow, too many unobservable obstructions plus 60mph obstacles weighing twice to twenty what you do coming in the opposite direction) but a busy dual carriageway like that? And on top of the central armco? That's utter madness, and unless there's a <u>completely</u> compelling reason why I'd suggest verging on criminally, leave alone morally irresponsible.
There appear to be a number of suitable sized fields in the immediate vicinity that wouldn't risk a 120mph head on with a truck.

[Nick H.]

Why are people condemning the pilot when they don't know the circumstances? First find out what his options were, how much traffic there was, were there bridges or signs in the way, why did he move to the centre of the road, etc. The RF6 has a stalling speed of 54 kts, so at least the speed differential with the traffic could have been minimised. It would have been possible to land without causing cars to crash. Which is exactly what happened.

[Capn Bug Smasher]

From the BBC: -

"Mr Ivey added that the plane was flying to Staverton, where it is normally based, and the airport closed as a result of the incident."

Seems a little excessive to close the aerodrome for this? The accident occurred off-airfield.

[CISTRS]

He seems very lucky to have walked away from this, with no collision with traffic.
I would have thought that almost any field - regardless of crop - would have been a better choice...
But then, I was not the pilot making the decision.

[SWBKCB]

Seems a little excessive to close the aerodrome for this? The accident occurred off-airfield.

I thought the same when I read that - maybe fire/other key personnel off the airfield to deal with this issue?

[OvertHawk]

From the BBC: -

"Mr Ivey added that the plane was flying to Staverton, where it is normally based, and the airport closed as a result of the incident."

Seems a little excessive to close the aerodrome for this? The accident occurred off-airfield.

If the incident was close to the airfield then it would be treated as an airfield incident and be SOP to send the airfield fire service to it thus leaving the airport without fire cover.

SO they would close until the incident had been managed and the fire cover restored.

[G-MILF]

I thought the same when I read that - maybe fire/other key personnel off the airfield to deal with this issue?

Aerodrome Fire & Rescue services at a licenced aerodrome are obliged to respond to an aircraft incident within a set distance of the airfield. In doing so, they remove the ARFF from the airfield, making it unlicenced. Rather than closing the airport completely, although they may well of done at the discretion of the airport, it was likely closed for traffic requiring a licenced aerodrome.

[ahwalk01]

The last words in the article...

So does anybody out there in Pilot-land know where I can get an old but serviceable Continental O-200 engine from a low-winged aeroplane (so it has a fuel pump lobe on its camshaft)?

[skua]

On 'The Other Forum' it is suggested that Staverton shut due to a minor taxiing accident between a gyrocopter and a fixed wing at more or less the same time. It is of course possible that its crash trucks attenmded this scene thereby denying the airfield crash cover.

[skua]

And another lesson from this accident: Gloucester Police operate unmarked black Volvos!

[First.officer]

I would have thought that almost any field - regardless of crop - would have been a better choice...

Probably didn't want to risk drowning after the U.K. summer thus far..... :}

[Asturias56]

Was lifting it by the spinner bulkhead really the best option? Maybe the insurance company already owned it but I'd have pulled the top cowling and lifted at the engine mount firewall clusters.

My current ride came with lift rings but I don't plan to land it on a guard rail just to see if the salvage crew is smart enough to use them.

I suspect they just wanted it moved ASAP

[Wickerbill]

Engine failure on finals, couldn't make the runway. Only had limited time to decide where to put it. Aircraft professionally recovered by Air Salvage International - it had to be done fast as the accident had blocked the A40 arterial road.

[biscuit74]

There seem to be a lot of 'second guessers' on here, using hindsight. Having no idea what the circumstances were - but given the position probably on or near finals as Wickernbill suggests - depending on direction there are plenty of houses etc., to hit and likely little energy or height available for significant choice. So I'd say well done for flying the aircraft into a successful landing, missing all the traffic - and perhaps that is why the central barrier zone was the spot picked - best available gap? If so, full marks for quick & inventive thinking and taking an unusual option. No-one was hurt. no cars or drivers/passengers involved evidently. Suggests a good pick was made with littel time, so ease up folks! (see Teddy Roosevelt on 'the man in the arena')

Looks like fairly limited damage to the aircraft, amazingly, though like several others I wince at the slinging around the prop boss. Judging by mey experience few years back when I was on scene as an accident occurred, once the Police in particular get involved, they will refuse to listen to anyone outside their own limited team; in my case they had no interest in using any of the available onsite expertise, the folk who had actually called the incident in. Hilariously, their decisions were incompetent and contradictory, arguably unsafe, taken by folk not even present at the site. So the recovery actions seen here may be being dictated by folk acting in haste without proper understanding.

Nive aircraft the RF6, I hope it can be repaired.

[BusterHot]

Having first heard about this on the news and seeing where and how the pilot landed it, my reaction is that they did a blxxdy good job. Looking at the close proximity of Gloucester Airport, I wouldn’t mind betting that this happened at a fairly low altitude which prevented a glide into a suitable field or possibly a turn back; take-off from runway 22?


Anyway, the fact that they put it down straddling the Arnco makes me believe that this person had thought this possible scenario out before and with the close proximity of all the buildings, it was probably a wise move. Going through training 50 years ago, an ex-WW2 instructor suggested that in idle moments, such as lying in the bath, that it would be sensible to occasionally run various scenarios through your head because if something happens at a low altitude, the less time spent in the “startle moment”, the better.

The armchair keyboard warriors immediately show their ignorance because actually landing astride the Arnco offers the best chance of survival in an otherwise dire situation. Faced with that situation where landing on a motorway or dual carriageway is the only alternative to certain death, in the heat of the moment what would you do? Land into the traffic, hoping everyone would see you and swerve away? Land with the traffic and hope to find a gap and that everyone behind you would slam on the brakes? Land on the hard shoulder (if there is one)? Or try and land right in the middle with the wheels astride the Arnco which would then have the added benefit of keeping it straight like a train on the track?

I know which one I’d try because it also has the added benefit of keeping the cockpit and cabin away from the traffic. Sure something that can’t get out of the way might hit the wing, but with a closing speed of perhaps 120mph, with something as small and as fragile as that light aeroplane, its going to rip the wing off rather than spin the whole aircraft around, or demolish it totally.

But all of this is all very good sitting in an armchair after the event. Faced with a low altitude engine failure with few options available, I firmly believe they made exactly the right decision and pulled it off amazingly well.

(Ex Military Fighter Pilot and Ex Civil Airlines Wide-bodied Captain, 17000hrs)

[runway30]

I have seen landing on a road reported more often in the US. The favoured technique seems to be landing with the traffic. The speed differential is low allowing the traffic behind to come to a halt if the aircraft makes a normal landing. The one wing into the oncoming traffic technique could have caused a major incident if oncoming traffic took avoiding action and collided with each other.
This piece of road is straight with no obstructions apart from the traffic.

[Wickerbill]

There seem to be a lot of 'second guessers' on here, using hindsight. Having no idea what the circumstances were - but given the position probably on or near finals as Wickernbill suggests - depending on direction there are plenty of houses etc., to hit and likely little energy or height available for significant choice. So I'd say well done for flying the aircraft into a successful landing, missing all the traffic - and perhaps that is why the central barrier zone was the spot picked - best available gap? If so, full marks for quick & inventive thinking and taking an unusual option. No-one was hurt. no cars or drivers/passengers involved evidently. Suggests a good pick was made with littel time, so ease up folks! (see Teddy Roosevelt on 'the man in the arena')

Looks like fairly limited damage to the aircraft, amazingly, though like several others I wince at the slinging around the prop boss. Judging by mey experience few years back when I was on scene as an accident occurred, once the Police in particular get involved, they will refuse to listen to anyone outside their own limited team; in my case they had no interest in using any of the available onsite expertise, the folk who had actually called the incident in. Hilariously, their decisions were incompetent and contradictory, arguably unsafe, taken by folk not even present at the site. So the recovery actions seen here may be being dictated by folk acting in haste without proper understanding.

Nive aircraft the RF6, I hope it can be repaired.

Aircraft is predominantly of wooden construction and is effectively a write off. Substantial underside damage due to landing on the ARMCO. Aircraft blocked both carriageways of the A40 and had to be removed fast.

[Mr Albert Ross]

Engine failure on finals, couldn't make the runway. Only had limited time to decide where to put it. Aircraft professionally recovered by Air Salvage International - it had to be done fast as the accident had blocked the A40 arterial road.
At first I thought "Why land on a road??"

Then I looked at Giggle Maps. The road appeared to be his best bet (better than the houses and trees each side!). Wickerbill's explanation (above) puts it all into real context.

A quick decision that worked and everyone survived.. Well done!

[netstruggler]

There are a couple of eyewitness statements up on the BBC website now.

One says they heard the engine of the plane coming up behind them - which is interesting, and another said the plane didn't cause any damage to the central reservation, though photos clearly show the Armco fencing was knocked off its supports, as designed.

[biscuit74]

Aircraft is predominantly of wooden construction and is effectively a write off. Substantial underside damage due to landing on the ARMCO. Aircraft blocked both carriageways of the A40 and had to be removed fast.

Thansk for that Wickerbill. I was aware of the construction but hoped that the damage would be mostly lower fuselage and tail. The main airframe didn't look significantly distorted & wood is readily replaced and repaired. Given the engine had failed, no doubt an economic write-off. But I thought perhaps someone will be interested enough in a rather pleasant handling machine to try reworking her..

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

I suspect they just wanted it moved ASAP
Aircraft blocked both carriageways of the A40 and had to be removed fast.
Since when has 'expeditiously' ever been a factor in UK motorways being cleared of obstructions, be it accident debris, or fools climbing on to an overhead gantry? 😂

[jumpseater]

Aerodrome Fire & Rescue services at a licenced aerodrome are obliged to respond to an aircraft incident within a set distance of the airfield. In doing so, they remove the ARFF from the airfield, making it unlicenced. Rather than closing the airport completely, although they may well of done at the discretion of the airport, it was likely closed for traffic requiring a licenced aerodrome.

No they’re not obligated to attend an off site incident. The deployment of RFFS off site will be in accordance with the aerodrome emergency plan and tactically decided by duty ATCO/operations depending on immediate aerodrome traffic, and practicality.

The requirements are in CH8 cap168 and the area of 1000m (usually extended centre line) of runway thresholds. Looking at where the aircraft landed I think it’s unlikely that off site deployment would have been used. There’s no simple route to get onto the A40, and one of the core requirements for offsite deployment is an appropriate and safe route.

[Icare9]

From an armchair observer, the propellor sustained no damage.
That suggests it wasn't even windmilling and a total engine failure as neither blade appears to have struck the armco barrier.
Given a dead donkey, options are limited, so can't argue that he made the right choice.
Now he'll probably get done for lane hogging, or stopping in the fast lane! :)
At least he didn't have an Audi that Must Get In Front chasing him on landing

[pilotmike]

Was lifting it by the spinner bulkhead really the best option?.
As others have said:

- it belongs to the the insurance company
- they wanted it out of the way ASAP because of the huge cost of keeping a busy dual carriageway closed
- they probably didn't have anyone with aviation knowledge who was had the correct Engineering maintenance tools to hand to remove cowls and determine exactly which possible lifting points would cause least stress / damage
- the engine was by all accounts f***ed (failed state) anyway, so why be precious about getting the wreck cleared ASAP?

While you're at it, why don't you criticise the pilot for needlessly damaging the underside, when he could so easily have plonked it down right in the middle of one of the carriageways without scratching the paintwork at all?

[Bill Macgillivray]

I know it is a rumour network, but why don't we all wait and see what the facts are? Whatever happened, I think that the pilot (male/female?), did a reasonable job in that no one was injured! Well done!!
Bill

[Flyingmac]

I think the earlier suggestion of carb icing can be ruled out. No-one in their right mind deprives a small Conti of carb heat at any stage of the approach.:)

[Andy D]

And another lesson from this accident: Gloucester Police operate unmarked black Volvos!

Those of us who live in Glos have known that for a while, they have some black unmarked Skoda’s too!

[Andy D]

At first I thought "Why land on a road??"

Then I looked at Giggle Maps. The road appeared to be his best bet (better than the houses and trees each side!). Wickerbill's explanation (above) puts it all into real context.

A quick decision that worked and everyone survived.. Well done!

Live about 10 miles south of this, and I think landing on the A40 is a reasonable decision

There’s a motorway running north / south under the A40 and surrounding area, and plenty of housing that makes other options unattractive

[blind pew]

Was required by the BHPA to have a sign off on my kiwi paragliding license so chose North Weald to do a winch course 20 years ago. The briefing by “rusty” included not to land on the motorway as they had been shut down for 6 months after a student had landed on the central reservation during rush hour which closed the motorway for a short while.

1994 was in Illinois with my boy doing a PPL at a field owned by a TWA skipper..one of the British students described how he had ran out of fuel and put down on a road, the FAA and plod were involved and after he got some gas it was decided he had to do a couple of high speed taxing runs before he took off to satisfy the authorities which he did and and continued his training to get his CPL.

[m0nkfish]

Why are people condemning the pilot when they don't know the circumstances? First find out what his options were, how much traffic there was, were there bridges or signs in the way, why did he move to the centre of the road, etc. The RF6 has a stalling speed of 54 kts, so at least the speed differential with the traffic could have been minimised. It would have been possible to land without causing cars to crash. Which is exactly what happened.

It’s the result that matters and this pilot got down safely without hurting anyone else and causing very little damage so gets a thumbs up from me.

A stalling speed of 54kts is 62mph, hopefully he wasn’t much faster than this when he touched down or else the police might give him a speeding ticket!!

[UV]

Was required by the BHPA to have a sign off on my kiwi paragliding license so chose North Weald to do a winch course 20 years ago. The briefing by “rusty” included not to land on the motorway as they had been shut down for 6 months after a student had landed on the central reservation during rush hour which closed the motorway for a short while.


I was a gliding instructor at North Weald from 1976 until they moved to Ridgewell about 25 years ago. Although we did autotows and aerotows we never did any winch launching at NW in that period.

I have no recollection of anyone landing on the M11 and the gliding being suspended for 6 months. I’m sure we would all have remembered that!

Are you sure it was NW?

[blind pew]

It was paragliding winch course “BHPA sign off on my kiwi paragliding license” is the clue. (Instructed at Wormingford and did a couple of seasons of interclub comps so we probably met..phoebus C.

[Uplinker]

I agree with Albert Ross and Nick H; we weren't there, and we don't know the exact circumstances. The fields either side might have been too small, or had power lines, or trees/hedges. Or non existent, e.g. housing.

The road might have been relatively empty, and landing with the traffic flow at a similar speed might have seemed the best course of action to the pilot. Perhaps the 'plane unintentionally veered over onto the central reservation after touching down, for whatever reason.

Lessons to be learned for sure. A revision of engine failure landings in fields; (Size, Shape, Slope, Shade etc). Revision of Air Law for flying over built-up areas at sufficient altitude to be able to land clear with engine failure. A 'sub-routine' in every single engined pilot's head to constantly have in mind the most suitable field visible in the area if the big fan at the front suddenly quits. And the best range gliding speed and config for your aircraft.

[Sillert,V.I.]

Engine failure on finals, couldn't make the runway.


Perhaps the worst possible engine failure scenario; low, slow, likely in a high drag configuration, and focusing on the landing - the surprise factor must have been considerable, the time to react negligible, and the options extremely limited.

The pilot did a lot of things right; in particular, they kept flying the airplane. Many others in this scenario have tried to stretch the glide, stalled, and become a passenger.

I'd call this a controlled forced landing into hostile terrain, not a crash.

[pilotmike]

Here are my thoughts.

1st, we don't know, we weren't there.

2nd, my 1st reaction was 'why the hell would anyone choose to land on a road?' I would drill my students to fly with sufficient height and care to have landing options available whenever possible. Landing on a road is a very last resort.

3rd, (and again…. we don't know…. but if the intrepid pilot was on short final for Staverton / Glos RW 04, these might possibly be pictures of:

A) a reasonable approach, with engine producing some power, for a powered approach, and…
B) the vexed position as the engine fails, leaving nothing but a line of trees ahead which cannot be flown over, with the only escape route, being the A40 which was thankfully sufficiently uncluttered as to allow a safe forced landing.

If so, kudos to the pilot. I'd be proud if you were one of my ex-students pulling off a safe landing like that!

Apologies, I don't know how to place / position the 2 images, but I'm sure you can determine which one is which.

[Expressflight]

It looks like the wind would have been something like 160/10 around the time of the accident.

[matspart3]

Engine failure on finals, couldn't make the runway. Only had limited time to decide where to put it. Aircraft professionally recovered by Air Salvage International - it had to be done fast as the accident had blocked the A40 arterial road.

Not that professionally recovered it seems. Fell off the lorry during recovery and now definitely a total loss.

[EXDAC]

Perhaps the worst possible engine failure scenario; low, slow, likely in a high drag configuration, and focusing on the landing.

What would force a pilot to be in that situation? Isn't it usually a choice?

[Andrewgr2]

What would force a pilot to be in that situation? Isn't it usually a choice?
As a glider pilot and tug pilot I cannot understand why so many light aircraft pilots voluntarily put themselves into a position where an engine failure on a base leg, and especially on final will result in an off airfield landing at best, and a crash at worst. I accept that in IMC there may be no alternative but on a normal VMC approach it shouldn’t be necessary.

[lightonthewater]

I don't suppose that there was anything voluntary about that landing. If the propeller stops turning when you are set up for landing, purposely low, slow and close to, but too far from, the runway, no-one would have any choice but find the least bad area to land. However skilled and experienced you may be, even you might not have had much choice of where to put it down. The old adage that 'any landing you can walk away from is a good one' would seem to apply here.

[Sillert,V.I.]

If the propeller stops turning when you are set up for landing, purposely low, slow and close to, but too far from, the runway, no-one would have any choice but find the least bad area to land.

It's already been said, but you don't usually have to set up for landing that way. Keeping close to the field and flying a glide approach pretty much guarantees you're going to make the airfield boundary, if not the runway.

This isn't always practical - what works at a gliding site might not work at a busy commercial airport. And for some higher performance types, there may also be the risk of shock cooling the engine to consider.

I'd agree that following the PAPI in an SEP isn't usually necessary or desirable, and isn't going to leave you many options if the donk quits on final.

[EXDAC]

If the propeller stops turning when you are set up for landing, purposely low, slow and close to, but too far from, the runway, no-one would have any choice but find the least bad area to land.

But why put yourself in that position? Who can make a good case for dragged in approaches that have no safe options if the fan stops? Even when forced to make a "two counties" circuit because of other (usually student) traffic I maintain traffic pattern altitude until I have an engine fail glide to the runway.

[Asturias56]

Big Car park just up the road at GCHQ - but might be a long time explaining yourself if you landed there

[OldLurker]

But why put yourself in that position? Who can make a good case for dragged in approaches that have no safe options if the fan stops? Even when forced to make a "two counties" circuit because of other (usually student) traffic I maintain traffic pattern altitude until I have an engine fail glide to the runway.As a humble light aircraft pilot, I totally agree that a glide approach is ideal. Yet I notice that heavy aircraft routinely drag in, often for many miles, and we're told that anything nearer to a glide approach is inconceivable. Of course that's completely different, isn't it: those have two or more fans, and two fans never stop at the same time – except when they do, notoriously the 777 whose pilot only just made it over the fence (and a very busy road, and an ILS antenna) onto the grass at Heathrow in 2018.

[Mowgli]

Although we don’t know the exact position and energy state of the aircraft when a loss of power occurred, it is evident that the pilot did not lose control; this could so easily have become a LOC-I statistic. The priorities are: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. There may have been very little time for “navigate” (we don’t know at the present time, an investigation would reveal more information), but the pilot kept with the “aviate” whilst no doubt in a very difficult situation.

[procede]

Yet I notice that heavy aircraft routinely drag in, often for many miles, and we're told that anything nearer to a glide approach is inconceivable.

Two reasons for lots of drag on approach are speed stability and engine spool up time on modern turbofans being more than 10 seconds from idle.
When an engine fails, you always have the option of retracting the flaps slightly, as was done with the BA777 at LHR with dual engine failure.

[Uplinker]

@OldLurker; Approaches 'clean' are not inconceivable, but large heavy airliners need to be slow to land - otherwise they may run out of runway in which to stop ! Flap-less landings can require double the 'normal' runway length to land.

Nor can you fly in clean, then stick full flap down at the last minute with just a mile to go, because it takes a while to slow down and settle the aircraft in its new config, so as not to destabilise it or the approach. It has to be configured in a controlled and gradual way.

Airliners increasingly don't use full flap for landing anyway these days, to save fuel.

[blind pew]

My last lot did idle approach and landings but after a few guys got long they brought in the regulation of landing config selected by 400ft which meant that she was fully configured at 300ft and the engines had to be spooled up for the last 15 seconds ish…not a problem even with a heavy if one was properly trained as we were…helps if the training establishment were serving military, mostly fast jet flying in and out of the alps..
Not helped on circling approaches following my old lot who needed god knows how long a stabilised final approach.
Best I did as a copilot was idle from 12,000ft…configuration adjusted to not exceed max company nose down attitude for pax comfort …no brakes and intercept the glide at 700ft from above and spooling the three Pratt and Whitney’s up at same time as speed bled off..only approach into Caracas…and you tell the youngsters today they won’t believe you.

[parkfell]

Aerodrome Fire & Rescue services at a licenced aerodrome are obliged to respond to an aircraft incident within a set distance of the airfield. In doing so, they remove the ARFF from the airfield, making it unlicenced. Rather than closing the airport completely, although they may well of done at the discretion of the airport, it was likely closed for traffic requiring a licenced aerodrome.

Technically the airfield remains licensed but without AFRS. Depending upon the ac operator, no ‘fire cover’ is required eg.private owner ac.
If the airport authority issue “Out of Hours Permits” then these holders do not require any facilities.
It is for the airport authority to decide the status of their airfield at any time…