Pay rises all around in the USA

[joblow]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/american-airlines-increases-offer-pilots-by-1-billion-matching-united-2023-07-21/?fbclid=IwAR0USid_F79yCxtrbNTig8Cbw5OKFG_BCbIkWPDP9ZWa_q5LJZ _e4IOHP9c_aem_ASOAUTJNQkR149MqkzCNapBZh9Ab6wGeKVQmz22xSVH7tC ahE_nHHB8WBs348wS1fCI

[cxflog]

Is there any point posting this here? Those of us who could leave have already left and the rest are either stuck at CX due to passports/families or still sipping on that juicy company koolaid. You don’t need to make them any more jealous :oh:

[Gnadenburg]

I’m in the States and I heard some CX guys returning.

[mngmt mole]

It's not about making anyone jealous. It's about emphasising to this blind and self aggrandizing management that the industry has moved far beyond their blinkered viewpoint. Without a quick acceptance of where this industry is going, and the necessity of paying their pilots a proper wage and benefits package, this company will surely suffer a rapid decline of safety and reputation. It is only a matter of time.

[Piet Lood]

Please don’t post about this.
STW is not able to get his greencard, so there’s really no point of posting this.
FOR THE LOVE OF BUDDHA!!!

[gipilot]

It's not about making anyone jealous. It's about emphasising to this blind and self aggrandizing management that the industry has moved far beyond their blinkered viewpoint. Without a quick acceptance of where this industry is going, and the necessity of paying their pilots a proper wage and benefits package, this company will surely suffer a rapid decline of safety and reputation. It is only a matter of time.

I can’t believe people still believe this type of stuff. Guys please, you’ve been in aviation long enough to know that managers don’t think like we do. Every single Cx manager must be feeling so sorry for their American counterparts and American managers are beyond jealous of what’s being paid to pilots in Europe and Asia. Dude, aviation is not going the way of the U.S., aviation is going the way of Europe and Asia, lower salaries and lower benefits.

What’s happening in the US is a case of regulation that has caused a massive shortage of pilots paired with huge retirements and a massive aviation rebound, nothing more and nothing less. In Europe and Asia it’s all well catered for.

There’s also an issue called supply and demand and outside of the US it’s practically non-existent. CX for instance has a problem recruiting qualified jockeys, fair enough. However when push comes to shove and the situation becomes critical they’ll just lower the standards. If any of you come across someone from talent acquisition just ask them about the massive amounts of applications they receive on a daily basis, you’ll be shocked. There are tons of unemployed Malaysian, Philipinos, Pakistani, Europeans around so no company outside the US will never ever go anywhere close to those kind of salaries nor should they.

Those US remuneration packages are 1. Unsustainable and 2. absolutely not the future of aviation salaries and benefits.

[corporal klinger]

Unfortunately true.Pay for pilots in Asia will not follow the US.

There are two main reasons why the US market has different wages. Firstly more union power backed by respective legislation and secondly less supply because of working restrictions for foreigners.

[Oddball77]

I can’t believe people still believe this type of stuff. Guys please, you’ve been in aviation long enough to know that managers don’t think like we do. Every single Cx manager must be feeling so sorry for their American counterparts and American managers are beyond jealous of what’s being paid to pilots in Europe and Asia. Dude, aviation is not going the way of the U.S., aviation is going the way of Europe and Asia, lower salaries and lower benefits.

What’s happening in the US is a case of regulation that has caused a massive shortage of pilots paired with huge retirements and a massive aviation rebound, nothing more and nothing less. In Europe and Asia it’s all well catered for.

There’s also an issue called supply and demand and outside of the US it’s practically non-existent. CX for instance has a problem recruiting qualified jockeys, fair enough. However when push comes to shove and the situation becomes critical they’ll just lower the standards. If any of you come across someone from talent acquisition just ask them about the massive amounts of applications they receive on a daily basis, you’ll be shocked. There are tons of unemployed Malaysian, Philipinos, Pakistani, Europeans around so no company outside the US will never ever go anywhere close to those kind of salaries nor should they.

Those US remuneration packages are 1. Unsustainable and 2. absolutely not the future of aviation salaries and benefits.

One has to agree with GIpilot, the bar to getting into the cadet scheme is a high school diploma, that’s it! Something like 50k+ teenagers finish high school each year in HK - say hypothetically the cut off age for the cadet scheme was 28 years old conservatively speaking that’s 500k potential students to choose from and only selecting 800 out of that lot won’t be hard.

HK breeds enough talent for the pilot work force to be localised, so for those ever hoping for a pay rise again can dream on!

[joblow]

Sorry, the article wasn't meant to start an argument , I only posted it because all of the majors in the USA are getting large pay rises and I thought it might be of interest .
There was a follow up to this article that a huge number of senior FO's are refusing an upgrade to Capt ,.Why because as a senior FO they can bid the trips they want , they don't have to do reserve and the pay differential is very small from Senior FO to Jnr Capt .
As a Jnr Capt you get tons of reserve , callouts at all times of the day and night lowest choice of roster bids which isn't very attractive . United is cancelling flights due to a lack of Capts

[mngmt mole]

And so it goes...

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/fedex-pilots-reject-new-labor-deal-would-raise-pay-30

[gipilot]

Sorry, the article wasn't meant to start an argument , I only posted it because all of the majors in the USA are getting large pay rises and I thought it might be of interest .
There was a follow up to this article that a huge number of senior FO's are refusing an upgrade to Capt ,.Why because as a senior FO they can bid the trips they want , they don't have to do reserve and the pay differential is very small from Senior FO to Jnr Capt .
As a Jnr Capt you get tons of reserve , callouts at all times of the day and night lowest choice of roster bids which isn't very attractive . United is cancelling flights due to a lack of Capts

Oh no mate, don’t worry about it, I know it wasn’t to start an argument. It’s just that sometimes the truth is right in front of us but we don’t want to see it. I read the other article about f/o’s as well, it’s incredible but I must say the US is again in a different galaxy when it comes to their aviation affairs, so these things happen there. My message to all outside of the US is enjoy and cherish every single second of the package you have right now, because it will all be worst within the next 10 years.

[Koan]

I can’t believe people still believe this type of stuff. Guys please, you’ve been in aviation long enough to know that managers don’t think like we do. Every single Cx manager must be feeling so sorry for their American counterparts and American managers are beyond jealous of what’s being paid to pilots in Europe and Asia. Dude, aviation is not going the way of the U.S., aviation is going the way of Europe and Asia, lower salaries and lower benefits.

What’s happening in the US is a case of regulation that has caused a massive shortage of pilots paired with huge retirements and a massive aviation rebound, nothing more and nothing less. In Europe and Asia it’s all well catered for.

There’s also an issue called supply and demand and outside of the US it’s practically non-existent. CX for instance has a problem recruiting qualified jockeys, fair enough. However when push comes to shove and the situation becomes critical they’ll just lower the standards. If any of you come across someone from talent acquisition just ask them about the massive amounts of applications they receive on a daily basis, you’ll be shocked. There are tons of unemployed Malaysian, Philipinos, Pakistani, Europeans around so no company outside the US will never ever go anywhere close to those kind of salaries nor should they.

Those US remuneration packages are 1. Unsustainable and 2. absolutely not the future of aviation salaries and benefits.

What is unsustainable truly is what is going on in the US regional industry. Huge pay incentives for especially instructors to stay and signing bonuses for direct entry Captain over $USD 100k. Now I hear there is a roadblock for those who have 1500 hrs and ATP mins. The regionals are not hiring FOs because they have insufficient cadres of Captains to fly their planned schedules. Major Airlines are hiring regional FOs, some do not require a university degree.

Actually I think the majors can afford to pay widebody Captains and FO's the $420/$300 dollars per hour. Just a bit less on the table for management bonuses, stock buybacks, fleets of electric air taxis and fanciful supersonic projects. So inevitably the next black swan event comes they declare bankruptcy or just threaten mass layoffs to slash the pilot contracts.

Every time new hires get staffed as WB FO something bad happens.