NJS and the A220

[aussieflyboy]

The Qantas Group has put a call out to the public to name their new aircraft after Australian Native Animals.

I think we can all agree aircraft number 1 must be named after the most majestic of Australian Birds…

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/promotions/name-qantas-a220.html


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/img_3206_82e48ebe8eb831f996ed963cc074d4c6678bd818.jpeg

[Farman Biplane]

Second A220 to be named EMU as there are likely to be no type rated International pilots attracted to the NJS offer!

[BuzzBox]

How about Galah?

[SandyPalms]

Even the official propaganda email this morning says Qantaslink A220’s. I guess Gissing lost.

[aussieflyboy]

Even the official propaganda email this morning says Qantaslink A220’s. I guess Gissing lost.

For the first time in the Groups history ‘QantasLink’ branded aircraft will outnumber ‘Qantas’ branded aircraft by the end of this year.

Perhaps Gissings plan was to slowly rebrand the company…

[Ken Borough]

Why not simply reuse the names carried by some early B737s? Failing that, walk around Longreach and adopt some of its street names.

[PoppaJo]

Surely one will ALAN on it?

[aussieflyboy]

Surely one will ALAN on it?

Would be in appropriate company when parked up next to Galah, Ibis and Pelican.

[TBM-Legend]

Would be in appropriate company when parked up next to Galah, Ibis and Pelican.


the 🦤 Dodo bird in honour of AJ

[Potsie Weber]

Even the official propaganda email this morning says Qantaslink A220’s. I guess Gissing lost.

Not much “link” in this rendering from the Qantas website. Given the amount of mainline domestic flying these will end up doing, wouldn’t be surprised that if they do initially come with a “link” livery, that it is soon dropped.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x900/img_3523_b9c1b93c6a1c0b78f87858227d1114f3b5cef83c.jpeg

[transition_alt]

Even the official propaganda email this morning says Qantaslink A220’s. I guess Gissing lost.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1626x936/6b5d7caa_e84a_477c_b01f_6bd49593f101_02c756be071a2fbe8d23308 a198ab6d973ea3ba1.jpeg

Except that the production sticker is missing the “Link.”

[BuzzBox]

Except that the production sticker is missing the “Link.”


Probably doesn't mean much, given the customer is "Qantas". They could end up being painted in any of the group's liveries, depending on what "Qantas" decides.

[tupungato]

Kookaburra is a perfect name for aircraft.

(Although it might turn into Kookaburra McKookaburraface if internet was to decide).

[noclue]

Perhaps kangaroo in whichever aboriginal language the pr team can spin as appropriate for the “national” carrier

[Callsign Please]

Well they’ve heard you, 3D render on instagram story is showing Link. Maybe the -100 will link and -300 not?

[Scooter Rassmussin]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/793x525/img_0591_e298e1d526eaf0a4b2d99045d770257215fb5380.jpeg
Large predator that bears some resemblance to the A220. Once ruled the Australian sky’s as Qantas group does now . A predator that will eat away at mainline.

[blubak]

Even the official propaganda email this morning says Qantaslink A220’s. I guess Gissing lost.
Isnt Gissing the chief of Qantaslink??
I saw an article where he said the 220 was 'a game changer'
So now we have had the 787 gamechanger & soon to be 220, 321xlr gamechanger & 350 gamechanger.
Big bonuses for being so clever🤦‍♂️

[JPJP]

Alan Joyce should be honored as he slithers quietly out the door.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x500/img_0080_a41e847601d324a8143b1dca261e1c5b2dbf5642.jpeg

Admittedly, the vulture isn’t native to Australia. But neither is he.

[topend3]

The Qantas Group has put a call out to the public to name their new aircraft after Australian Native Animals.

I think we can all agree aircraft number 1 must be named after the most majestic of Australian Birds…

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/promotions/name-qantas-a220.html


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/img_3206_82e48ebe8eb831f996ed963cc074d4c6678bd818.jpeg
Bustard would be a good one!

[boocs]

Just to clarify, what is the % increase in wages for NJS pilots going from the 717 to the 220?

Asking for pilots wanting to apply to NJS to fly the 220.

b

[WillieTheWimp]

Just to clarify, what is the % increase in wages for NJS pilots going from the 717 to the 220?

Asking for pilots wanting to apply to NJS to fly the 220.

b

As far as T&Cs go, overall it is a % decrease. The pay is identical; however, lifestyle provision are reduced or removed. Management like to call it “strategic imperative”—40 percent of the pilots call it BS.

The EBA is ratified and on the FW site. Hope that helps.

[Chris2303]

"The aircraft is name Kangaroo so we are allowed to bounce the landing"

[Logohu]

"Emu" - since large numbers of A220s are presently flightless with GTF engine issues

[Global Aviator]

The Bin Chicken 🤣

[soseg]

Bin Chicken for being the lowest paid pilots in Australia.

[ShandywithSugar]

Bin Chicken for being the lowest paid pilots in Australia.

An IBIS is actually pictured in the official instagram video as a suggestion.

[RENURPP]

Bin Chicken for being the lowest paid pilots in Australia.
If they were.

AirNorth, Alliance and some others from the west take that honour.

[pinkpanther1]

If they were.

AirNorth, Alliance and some others from the west take that honour.

Aaahhhhh cmon, dont let the truth get in the way of a good story!

[BravoSierraLima]

The truth is NJS pilots are being left well behind. Rex 737 EBA* has a similar base salary but when their allowances are factored in, they're clearly ahead. Alliance in BNE also have similar base salaries but are miles ahead when allowances are factored in, plus they're based in BNE. Network's proposed EBA even has most pilots clearly ahead of NJS. A friend at NJS tells me that most of the frequent complainers on the NJS pilot private FacePprune group about hotel quality, rosters, transport and jealousy of other airlines getting bonuses and salary increases...openly voted yes to their woeful EBA!

*if/when it comes into effect

[bazza stub]

Lots of dick measuring going on here. So NJS voted yes to a sh!t agreement after being threatened with being out of a job, perhaps put yourself in their shoes. Could you take the risk? I have no idea what good it does having a spray at your fellow pilots, all you’re doing is increasing the divide. Why don’t we start acting like a group of people who have a common enemy.

[VisualPurple]

God forbid you lose your job at one of the ****test, low paying, bottom feeding, undercutting jet operators in Australia. They could have walked out of NJS and into one of the plethora of other operators that QF have decided to slap a kangaroo on the tail of the next day. Also if they did decide to make good on the threat of giving the A220 to a different operator where do you think they would have found a bunch of suitable pilots to operate them…

It was a spineless short sighted move to accept that contract and now they have to pay the price for it. I hope they all find better paying jobs somewhere where their skills and experience are valued and they learn a valuable lesson about taking the pineapple next time a company threatens them at the negotiating table.

[Lapon]

The truth is NJS pilots are being left well behind. Rex 737 EBA* has a similar base salary but when their allowances are factored in, they're clearly ahead. Alliance in BNE also have similar base salaries but are miles ahead when allowances are factored in, plus they're based in BNE. Network's proposed EBA even has most pilots clearly ahead of NJS. A friend at NJS tells me that most of the frequent complainers on the NJS pilot private FacePprune group about hotel quality, rosters, transport and jealousy of other airlines getting bonuses and salary increases...openly voted yes to their woeful EBA!

*if/when it comes into effect

Do NJS pilots not get allowances or incentives on top of the base too? They used to.

[VisualPurple]

Big statement mate. Put yourself in their shoes, a fleet up for retirement, 2 years of little/no pay during covid, a pilot surplus (things hadn't kicked off after covid with still a lot of expats pilots coming back to Australia looking for local jobs). Things were very uncertain.

It's easy to say they should've just taken the risk and been made redundant. Maybe those in the LHS didn't want to take the risk, leave an east coast base to go to Perth and sit in the right seat of an f100 for half the pay just to prove a point and protect the mainline guys who don't give a toss about them?

Nope I don’t consider that a big statement at all. At what point would you have actually stood up for yourself and not just bent over? They are now reaping what they’ve sewn and have no leg to stand on at all regarding any complaints.

Fleet up for retirement - who else was going to do the work? There was not a pilot surplus. There were some coming back, but that was drying up. ‘Plan B’ / Network was already in shambles missing key management staff and already understaffed pilot-wise. Their AOC also doesn’t have the greatest safety record. Sounds like a great subsidiary to give the work to. Surprise surprise they ended up offering sign up bonuses to try and get people. The dash drivers certainly weren’t getting it either.

2 years of little to no pay also isn’t correct. The 717 flew probably the most out of the group during covid. Some 717 bases barely got stood down. Even so, wouldn’t you already be angry enough to want to stand up for yourself after being screwed around during covid by the company. Then when the industry improved only to be kept in the dark and expected to say how high when they say jump! Half the NJS pilots weren’t where they wanted to be anyway with cairns and Perth closed and being forced to move to Melbourne. Also no one could get a brisbane base and won’t for some time. What did they have to lose?
No wonder there were high resignations and sick leave after this period.

Pilot surplus - see above.
In addition to above, this was Easter 2022. Demand was sky high if you don’t remember the delays flying around that time. Covid was looking like it was ending. Everything was roaring back, not just here. Why do you think Qantas put on massive time pressure to get it through when every airline normally always drags the chain during negotiation time. They aren’t silly. They could see demand coming back and the pendulum swinging in the pilots favour. After a 3 year pay freeze, being shuffled around not where you want, to operate a plane that carry’s 20 something percent more pax at 20 something percent more fuel efficient, on short haul flights, while also giving up other eba clauses.

Critical thinking clearly wasn’t their strong point.

[maverick4442]

The truth is NJS pilots are being left well behind. Rex 737 EBA* has a similar base salary but when their allowances are factored in, they're clearly ahead. Alliance in BNE also have similar base salaries but are miles ahead when allowances are factored in, plus they're based in BNE. Network's proposed EBA even has most pilots clearly ahead of NJS. A friend at NJS tells me that most of the frequent complainers on the NJS pilot private FacePprune group about hotel quality, rosters, transport and jealousy of other airlines getting bonuses and salary increases...openly voted yes to their woeful EBA!

*if/when it comes into effect

Voting YES to a rubbish agreement and complaining about it afterwards is a bit rich! You could have voted NO!
You made your bed now lie in it.

[maverick4442]

Aaahhhhh cmon, dont let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Dont let a the truth get in the way of a good story…Pinkpanther why did you delete your post that has a reply to it #34??

:=

[pinkpanther1]

Nope I don’t consider that a big statement at all. At what point would you have actually stood up for yourself and not just bent over? They are now reaping what they’ve sewn and have no leg to stand on at all regarding any complaints.

Fleet up for retirement - who else was going to do the work? There was not a pilot surplus. There were some coming back, but that was drying up. ‘Plan B’ / Network was already in shambles missing key management staff and already understaffed pilot-wise. Their AOC also doesn’t have the greatest safety record. Sounds like a great subsidiary to give the work to. Surprise surprise they ended up offering sign up bonuses to try and get people. The dash drivers certainly weren’t getting it either.

2 years of little to no pay also isn’t correct. The 717 flew probably the most out of the group during covid. Some 717 bases barely got stood down. Even so, wouldn’t you already be angry enough to want to stand up for yourself after being screwed around during covid by the company. Then when the industry improved only to be kept in the dark and expected to say how high when they say jump! Half the NJS pilots weren’t where they wanted to be anyway with cairns and Perth closed and being forced to move to Melbourne. Also no one could get a brisbane base and won’t for some time. What did they have to lose?
No wonder there were high resignations and sick leave after this period.

Pilot surplus - see above.
In addition to above, this was Easter 2022. Demand was sky high if you don’t remember the delays flying around that time. Covid was looking like it was ending. Everything was roaring back, not just here. Why do you think Qantas put on massive time pressure to get it through when every airline normally always drags the chain during negotiation time. They aren’t silly. They could see demand coming back and the pendulum swinging in the pilots favour. After a 3 year pay freeze, being shuffled around not where you want, to operate a plane that carry’s 20 something percent more pax at 20 something percent more fuel efficient, on short haul flights, while also giving up other eba clauses.

Critical thinking clearly wasn’t their strong point.

No one is disagreeing that it was a crap deal. They knew it was. The reality is 160 pilots on a retiring fleet really had very little influence in the environment of the time. Let's no forget, the pilot body was very heavily spilt in the yes/no vote and even management knew it might not go through. Had SH not voted up their amendments for the 321 the day prior to the NJS vote then maybe there would have been a more united front.

I left this mob over a year ago so don't really have a horse in the race anymore, but I think it's rich to call them spineless. The NJS pilot group took PIA in 2018 and got significant improvements (at the time) to their EBA.

Maybe if the Australian pilot community weren't so toxic then we could actually work together. Alas, the powers that be only need to sit back and watch us implode from the inside.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Someone suggested that the A220 was never going to go to Network because it was, itself, a basket case. So I’m told, the threat (or promise) was made by JG and he was serious. The A220 was going to be operated under the Network AOC with the 717 pilots withering away along with the aircraft. They would then be offered an “opportunity” to bid over to the A220, given a contract on a, take it or leave it, basis. That contract was rumoured to closely mirror the award, i.e. a huge reduction in pay and conditions.

I’m not happy that my fellow pilots voted this agreement up either, but the fact remains that QF have shot from the industrial hip before and they seem to have an appetite for recklessness while doing so. Obviously the NJS pilots ran the situation through their T&M model and took what they considered was the least risky decision. We as a wider pilot community should understand that philosophy as one would hope it forms a large part of what we do day to day.

An important point that has conveniently been overlooked by the haters is that the unions, namely the AFAP and the TWU both said they believed the pilots would lose this fight. AIPA were, and still are, dragging their feet on allowing NJS pilots full membership. What hope did they have with two unions folding and a third fostering the divide?

I have a number of good friends at NJS and I can say that none of them are out to undercut anyone else. Just like all of us in Australian aviation, they just want to earn a living and provide for their families.

Try hating the system and back those who had no choice for fvcks sake.

[Lapon]

Pinkpanther does have a point, NJS were the last reasoanble sized pilot group I can think of that took a stand and got a decent improvement a few years prior, Jetstar tried I guess but then covid, and the last i remeber was Virgin nearly 20 years ago.

Qantas shorthaul overwhelmingly voted in favor of the companies SIs by varying an EBA that wasn't even up for renewal... that certainly didn't help the NJS cause either.

Plenty of chest beating from a couple of recent posters here about how everyone else is the problem, but they are certainly not leading thier own pilot groups on another path.
Infact they probably dont even work as pilots or in Australia and are little more than a 'man gets angry at a cloud' type.

[SuPeRcHaRgEd]

Someone suggested that the A220 was never going to go to Network because it was, itself, a basket case. So I’m told, the threat (or promise) was made by JG and he was serious. The A220 was going to be operated under the Network AOC with the 717 pilots withering away along with the aircraft. They would then be offered an “opportunity” to bid over to the A220, given a contract on a, take it or leave it, basis. That contract was rumoured to closely mirror the award, i.e. a huge reduction in pay and conditions.

I’m not happy that my fellow pilots voted this agreement up either, but the fact remains that QF have shot from the industrial hip before and they seem to have an appetite for recklessness while doing so. Obviously the NJS pilots ran the situation through their T&M model and took what they considered was the least risky decision. We as a wider pilot community should understand that philosophy as one would hope it forms a large part of what we do day to day.

An important point that has conveniently been overlooked by the haters is that the unions, namely the AFAP and the TWU both said they believed the pilots would lose this fight. AIPA were, and still are, dragging their feet on allowing NJS pilots full membership. What hope did they have with two unions folding and a third fostering the divide?

I have a number of good friends at NJS and I can say that none of them are out to undercut anyone else. Just like all of us in Australian aviation, they just want to earn a living and provide for their families.

Try hating the system and back those who had no choice for fvcks sake.

Thanks gordonfvuckingramsay. From someone who lived through this ****ful time yours is an accurate account of how it played out. Not a single pilot wanted to put Yes on their ballot and it pained those of us who HAD to. NJS and Qantas played dirty and won because the pilots had zero leverage and they knew it. There was no negotiation. Just vote Yes to this tripe, meet our strategic imperatives or you will be applying for your current job at Network with no guarantee of your current base or rank. Despite Network being the basket case we were told Qantas would have thrown enough money at that operation to get the 220 operation off the ground. Qantas would have made an example of NJS pilots if we were to revolt. We literally had the gun cocked at our temple!

On the upside, its all coming back to haunt them. Pilots with low morale don't give any more than they have to. Their incentives to do extra aren't enticing most pilots to work on days off or outside their rostered duty. Sick leave is higher than its ever been. Many have left or are actively looking and despite scouring the globe no one wants to come and fly the shiny new jet for the conditions they are offering. Lets see where we end up!

[Jack D. Ripper]

Meanwhile Gissing and his twit of a COO are both leaving, making off like bandits…..

[soseg]

The 717 flew probably the most out of the group during covid. Some 717 bases barely got stood down.

Network flew all the time. Only a small handful of pilots got stood down once for two weeks, if even that. Meanwhile all the Perth 737 crew were stood down consistently or getting rolled into Quarantine for 14 days for doing a Darwin return because it was fine for them to fly Darwin then, but today it’s purely a Netlink a320 route.

“we’re all in this together” they said. Absolute BS.

[Lapon]

Network flew all the time. Only a small handful of pilots got stood down once for two weeks, if even that. Meanwhile all the Perth 737 crew were stood down consistently or getting rolled into Quarantine for 14 days for doing a Darwin return because it was fine for them to fly Darwin then, but today it’s purely a Netlink a320 route.

“we’re all in this together” they said. Absolute BS.

Your frustration of Network now operating Perth to Darwin has nothing to do with McGowan's quarantine requirements, they are two seperate issues.

If Perth 737 crew were stood down then its because they were not needed at that time. If Network crew weren't, then they were needed to do whatever it is they were doing.
I'd go further to say the Perth to Darwin flying doesn't belong to QF mainline anymore than it belongs to Network.
The pilots job is to fly the plane where and when told to, not to imply a right to a particular route because thats what he/she has become accustomed to.

[Dogman]

The truth is NJS pilots are being left well behind. Rex 737 EBA* has a similar base salary but when their allowances are factored in, they're clearly ahead. Alliance in BNE also have similar base salaries but are miles ahead when allowances are factored in, plus they're based in BNE. Network's proposed EBA even has most pilots clearly ahead of NJS. A friend at NJS tells me that most of the frequent complainers on the NJS pilot private FacePprune group about hotel quality, rosters, transport and jealousy of other airlines getting bonuses and salary increases...openly voted yes to their woeful EBA!

*if/when it comes into effect
Not sure where you're getting your BS from BSL? As woeful as the NJS agreement is, it runs rings around Network and Alliance et al...
Infact many of my buddies at Network would love to be on the NJS agreement......luckily for Network most of the guys that work there just don't want to leave WA.

[aussieflyboy]

Not sure where you're getting your BS from BSL? As woeful as the NJS agreement is, it runs rings around Network and Alliance et al...
Infact many of my buddies at Network would love to be on the NJS agreement......luckily for Network most of the guys that work there just don't want to leave WA.

Have you seen what the company has put forward to Network Pilots for their now well overdue EA? It runs rings around the woeful mess of the latest NJS EA. The simple fact is that NJSs 2018 agreement is better than NJS’s 2022 agreement. No doubt all the ‘Yes’ voters at NJS are walking around saying ‘we’ll get ‘em next time’…

[Jack D. Ripper]

Have you seen what the company has put forward to Network Pilots for their now well overdue EA? It runs rings around the woeful mess of the latest NJS EA.

Still falls way short. Maybe the NAA CP should take a break from OTP emails and refresh himself with his former employers pilots agreement.

[Advance]

Six names for six French aircraft - up to the same standard as French ATC radar, French Submarines, French Wine, French Letters, French ...................
How about the following
Long Drop (winner),
Shouse
Bogger
Pissoir (to recognise origin)
Crapper
Outhouse

[soseg]

Your frustration of Network now operating Perth to Darwin has nothing to do with McGowan's quarantine requirements, they are two seperate issues.

If Perth 737 crew were stood down then its because they were not needed at that time. If Network crew weren't, then they were needed to do whatever it is they were doing.
I'd go further to say the Perth to Darwin flying doesn't belong to QF mainline anymore than it belongs to Network.
The pilots job is to fly the plane where and when told to, not to imply a right to a particular route because thats what he/she has become accustomed to.

You're right.

Just transfer all the west coast RPT to Network.
All the east coast to NJS.
Give the trans-tasman and SA/NT work to Alliance.

Hell, why replace the ageing a330s when you can just get companies like Finnair to do it all?

I mean, I'm sure it's got nothing to do with the fact those subsidiaries are paid a fraction of traditional mainline wages, even while the company is making billions again in profit with aircraft suffering dozens of MELs, hold items, service issues etc.

I mean, the pilot's job is to fly the plane where and when told to, not to imply a right to a particular route because that's what he/she has become accustomed to.

Let me guess, strategic imperative?

"We are all in it together" from up the top yet whatever little flying there was got handed to the subsids and wasn't equally shared around.

Or are you completely oblivious that Network was bought to cater for the resource sector? ie the charter side of things in WA. Consistently expanding and taking RPT routes, while the public is none the wiser, while it's being operated by QLink.

Yeah, let's just ignore it, eh. After all, our job is to just shut up and fly the plane where and when told to.

Let's just skip another ten years into the future and save management the hassle. Let's just eradicate QF SH and let the 3 QLinks completely take over the QF domestic sectors, and the international side can go to Alliance, Finnair... and I'm sure we can wet lease to other companies. Maybe the project sunrise should have gone to a new entity, the way former International CEO Tino La Spina told the pilots they'd do if they didn't agree to the EBA ultimatum. Why should they have questioned it? Just fly what you're told to.

Go back to your management desk and stay of pprune.

[Lapon]

You're right.

Just transfer all the west coast RPT to Network.
All the east coast to NJS.
Give the trans-tasman and SA/NT work to Alliance.

Hell, why replace the ageing a330s when you can just get companies like Finnair to do it all?

I mean, I'm sure it's got nothing to do with the fact those subsidiaries are paid a fraction of traditional mainline wages, even while the company is making billions again in profit with aircraft suffering dozens of MELs, hold items, service issues etc.

I mean, the pilot's job is to fly the plane where and when told to, not to imply a right to a particular route because that's what he/she has become accustomed to.

Let me guess, strategic imperative?

"We are all in it together" from up the top yet whatever little flying there was got handed to the subsids and wasn't equally shared around.

Or are you completely oblivious that Network was bought to cater for the resource sector? ie the charter side of things in WA. Consistently expanding and taking RPT routes, while the public is none the wiser, while it's being operated by QLink.

Yeah, let's just ignore it, eh. After all, our job is to just shut up and fly the plane where and when told to.

Let's just skip another ten years into the future and save management the hassle. Let's just eradicate QF SH and let the 3 QLinks completely take over the QF domestic sectors, and the international side can go to Alliance, Finnair... and I'm sure we can wet lease to other companies. Maybe the project sunrise should have gone to a new entity, the way former International CEO Tino La Spina told the pilots they'd do if they didn't agree to the EBA ultimatum. Why should they have questioned it? Just fly what you're told to.

Go back to your management desk and stay of pprune.

The subsidiaries are not taking over because of what two different pilots are paid, its because the companies network planners are not going to send a 170 seat aircraft out when a 100 seat regional jet will suffice.

You are correct in that the public couldn't care less whether its Qlink or mainline, but why should they? Its of no material difference to them.

I'll also agree that SH will probably have less of relative presence in the future, but that's the pilot/union's fault in a bygone era for never having any sort of scope clause like the yanks or even Air NZ do.

Nobody said Qantas was even half well run, so dont make the mistake of believing what you're told such as 'we are in it together' or 'Jetstar will only have x number of aircraft' etc.
Complaining about the potential demise of mainline to the subsidiaries is like complaining about Jetstars expansion at QF mainline expense, we heard it all circa 20 years ago but here we are.

[cloudsurfng]

I’m still confident the a220, or some of them, will be in SH.

Can’t get any pilots on the crap deal

[aussieflyboy]

The subsidiaries are not taking over because of what two different pilots are paid, its because the companies network planners are not going to send a 170 seat aircraft out when a 100 seat regional jet will suffice.

You are correct in that the public couldn't care less whether its Qlink or mainline, but why should they? Its of no material difference to them.

I'll also agree that SH will probably have less of relative presence in the future, but that's the pilot/union's fault in a bygone era for never having any sort of scope clause like the yanks or even Air NZ do.

Nobody said Qantas was even half well run, so dont make the mistake of believing what you're told such as 'we are in it together' or 'Jetstar will only have x number of aircraft' etc.
Complaining about the potential demise of mainline to the subsidiaries is like complaining about Jetstars expansion at QF mainline expense, we heard it all circa 20 years ago but here we are.

That makes sense for many NJS routes. A MEL-CBR every hour with 70 punters is obviously more suited to a B717 rather than a B737.

It does not make sense when a QLink A320 is operating a route that a QF B737 previously operated. PER-BME, PER-ADL, PER-DRW. The Captains on these routes all used to be paid $100k more than they are now.

[Lapon]

That makes sense for many NJS routes. A MEL-CBR every hour with 70 punters is obviously more suited to a B717 rather than a B737.

It does not make sense when a QLink A320 is operating a route that a QF B737 previously operated. PER-BME, PER-ADL, PER-DRW. The Captains on these routes all used to be paid $100k more than they are now.

I don't know the rationale for each route/fleet allocation but I'd half expect the 737s being needed elsewhere is the rationale rather than the wage makeup of two guys up front.

Probably sending the 73 transcon instead of the 330, but thats not considered taking someone elses flying :E

[BuzzBox]

Let's just eradicate QF SH...

If that means we'll no longer have to put up with thread after thread after thread of entitled whingeing, then I'm all for it. Any other takers? :ok:

[morno]

If that means we'll no longer have to put up with thread after thread after thread of entitled whingeing, then I'm all for it. Any other takers? :ok:

Can we start one about the threat of taking your job instead? Then see how you like it

[BuzzBox]

Can we start one about the threat of taking your job instead? Then see how you like it

Too late for that. My job was taken during COVID and I haven't worked in aviation since.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Can we start one about the threat of taking your job instead? Then see how you like it

I’m sure no pilot relishes the thought that your job has been taken, but other than crapping on your fellow pilot, have you ever sent your agro towards the people responsible? Seems you may have some misdirected anger.

[pinkpanther1]

Can we start one about the threat of taking your job instead? Then see how you like it

Pretty sure this thread was started with the purpose of degrading NJS pilots with a large photo of an ibis.

In fact, I can't recall ever reading a thread on here about NJS/network/jetconnect pilots gloating about 'taking your jobs'.

If you want solidarity, poking fun of and talking sh*t about your fellow pilots is a strange way to go about it.

[soseg]

I don't know the rationale for each route/fleet allocation but I'd half expect the 737s being needed elsewhere is the rationale rather than the wage makeup of two guys up front.

Probably sending the 73 transcon instead of the 330, but thats not considered taking someone elses flying :E

The difference is, a330 and 737 pilots can jump between the fleets. It's shared between the same work group. Sure, different contracts, but if the company wants to justify flying narrow bodys across the continent because they dont have wide body competition anymore, or because of their shortage of a330s to fly to Asia etc, then ok, but the work stays within mainline.

How many times have QF pilots been told that Network would only get 2 or 3 a320s? Now they have how many? I've lost count. They have apparently another dozen a319s lined up and ready to go in the next few years.

So, if they need extra capacity, why expand a subsidiary on trans-perth bus driving wages?

Why not give mainline more jets and keep the work where it's traditionally been?

Cost saving. Not right aircraft right route. A320 vs 737 is basically the same to Darwin, Hedland, Karratha, Broome.

If they cared about the right aircraft for the right route then perhaps they wouldn't be severely capping international sectors which are so weight and fuel limited like PER-LHR during the northern winter. Perhaps they'd have a plan B for the rumours of something like 70% of project sunrise a350 SYD-LHR not making it in daily simulated flight plans with daily conditions.

Right aircraft on the right wages. Call mainline pilots whingers all you want, but show me which other airline in Australia still has decent legacy conditions and pay?

Go visit the two VA threads that are currently going and let me know how they feel over there.

[ShandywithSugar]

How many times have QF pilots been told that Network would only get 2 or 3 a320s? Now they have how many? I've lost count. They have apparently another dozen a319s lined up and ready to go in the next few years.

15 x A320

[ResumeOwnNav]

QANTAS 'Spirit of Whipsawing'

[Slippery_Pete]

Pretty sure this thread was started with the purpose of degrading NJS pilots with a large photo of an ibis.

In fact, I can't recall ever reading a thread on here about NJS/network/jetconnect pilots gloating about 'taking your jobs'.

If you want solidarity, poking fun of and talking sh*t about your fellow pilots is a strange way to go about it.

Perhaps the victim role you’re taking after signing a crap deal doesn’t sit right with your “fellow pilots”?

I’m sure mainline guys would love to get A220 crew across from NJS onto the short haul award to both improve conditions for you and also to make their own futures more secure.

But while subsidiary pilots keep signing crap fear-based deals during a global pilot shortage, how exactly do you expect mainline crew to react?

If you want solidarity, you need to be prepared to not undercut other groups/agreements.

[Lapon]

Perhaps the victim role you’re taking after signing a crap deal doesn’t sit right with your “fellow pilots”?

I’m sure mainline guys would love to get A220 crew across from NJS onto the short haul award to both improve conditions for you and also to make their own futures more secure.

But while subsidiary pilots keep signing crap fear-based deals during a global pilot shortage, how exactly do you expect mainline crew to react?

If you want solidarity, you need to be prepared to not undercut other groups/agreements.

Didn't mainline/SH agree to an eba variation at the same time NJS were negotiating an expired eba with a fleet confirmed as being retired.

A bit rich to claim it was the subsidiaries undercutting mainline on that one when it was mainline who reached agreement while NJS were still fighting thiers.

Without knowing the finer points of each eba, I don't know if everyone would consider all elements of the SH agreement to be 'improvements'.

[Slippery_Pete]

Didn't mainline/SH agree to an eba variation at the same time NJS were negotiating an expired eba with a fleet confirmed as being retired.

A bit rich to claim it was the subsidiaries undercutting mainline on that one when it was mainline who reached agreement while NJS were still fighting thiers.

Without knowing the finer points of each eba, I don't know if everyone would consider all elements of the SH agreement to be 'improvements'.

I don’t work for NJS or QF, so I don’t know the finer points either.

NJS was a new EBA which was signed in. Not only was it a new agreement, it had significant degradation to T&Cs via fatigue/rostering.

Shorthaul was simply an addition of an aircraft type to an existing EBA which still had two years to run. You can’t negotiate a brand new EBA when you’re half way through the old one.

So no, completely different. But if it helps
NJS guys sleep at night, whatevs.

The A220 deal was a monumental FU. Hopefully everyone has learnt from it.

[Lapon]

I don’t work for NJS or QF, so I don’t know the finer points either.

NJS was a new EBA which was signed in. Not only was it a new agreement, it had significant degradation to T&Cs via fatigue/rostering.

Shorthaul was simply an addition of an aircraft type to an existing EBA which still had two years to run. You can’t negotiate a brand new EBA when you’re half way through the old one.

So no, completely different. But if it helps
NJS guys sleep at night, whatevs.

The A220 deal was a monumental FU. Hopefully everyone has learnt from it.

So what did SH/mainline gain? Hopefully ALOT because as you say, they didn't need to agree to anything at all as thier eba was current, and thier fleet was years away from retirement.

NJS didn't have that position, and I doubt thier cause was helped by SH/mainline saying yea sure those SI's are not a problem so we will accept your changes now rather than negotiate at eba time.
Like I said hopefully SH got some huge improvements for that, but I asked that on anothet thread and didn't get a response.

I couldn't care less either way what either group wants, but I do get the impression here there is a tone of 'the subsidiaries are to blame for all our problems' from some quarters.

[neville_nobody]

But while subsidiary pilots keep signing crap fear-based deals during a global pilot shortage, how exactly do you expect mainline crew to react?

Mainline pilots don't negotiate with the threat of all being fired though. Subsidiary pilots all have the threat of their jobs being moved to the next cheapest operator. Network, Alliance, Eastern ,Sunstate, Jetconnect etc etc
The other consideration is that if Subsidiary pilots ask for Mainline pay then the work will just be moved back to mainline and the company saves on all the cost of an AOC and management. They really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The best thing to happen is that the companies totally screwup the labour market for pilots in this country so that literally there is noone and noone is learning to fly because it is uneconomical leaving them with a giant experience gap they can't fix before their next bonus round.

[ScepticalOptomist]

The other consideration is that if Subsidiary pilots ask for Mainline pay then the work will just be moved back to mainline and the company saves on all the cost of an AOC and management.

…and then would have to hire more pilots, achieving an overall win for everyone.

[soseg]

I do get the impression here there is a tone of 'the subsidiaries are to blame for all our problems' from some quarters.

They are. I'm not saying its their pilots to blame. But it is the fault of the subsids being bought up by Q-Group management. Acquiring so many subsids hasn't helped anyone except management's divide and conquer tactic.

​​​​​​​Didn't mainline/SH agree to an eba variation at the same time NJS were negotiating an expired eba with a fleet confirmed as being retired.

A bit rich to claim it was the subsidiaries undercutting mainline on that one when it was mainline who reached agreement while NJS were still fighting thiers.
and
​​​​​​​Mainline pilots don't negotiate with the threat of all being fired though. Subsidiary pilots all have the threat of their jobs being moved to the next cheapest operator. Network, Alliance, Eastern ,Sunstate, Jetconnect etc etc

When was the last time NJS had their routes given to another operator?
When was the last time NAA had their routes given to another operator?

Mainline pilot's didn't negotiate with the threat of being fired but let's not forget that between early 2009 to late 2016, QF Mainline hired zero, yes zero pilots. None. Progression was almost non-existent. Command upgrades even today with all the movement are just on 19 years which is sadly considered "getting better".
JQ's expansion onto routes that mainline pilots were told would never be flown by JQ, and then given a dozen or so 787s which were originally planneed for QF killed any and all progression at QF. Then you throw in another decade on top of that of seeing NJS/NAA taking RPT routes and the slow erosion of SH, and now LH it seems.

The last 15 years has seen nothing but the subsidiaries expand as mainline shrinks. How many 747s and 767s have been retired in the last 15 years? Throw in 2x a380s and 2x a330s, and add on the 14x 787s (which have trickled in over not even a decade), and whatever 737s/a330s have trickled in about 10 years ago, and whats the net loss at QF? Someone here surely has the figures of QF fleet size in 2005, 2010 versus now. A word of mouth promise that 75 737s will be replaced with maybe 40 a321XLRs and five minutes later management literally begins gloating to QF pilots in a webinar how the a220 is the future. Empty promises that for example Network will only get a couple of airbuses. Direct threats that if they don't sign EBA10 that the A350s will go to a new entity.

Yeah, maybe not a direct threat of being fired, but most there only a decade ago were faced with actual threats of redundancy and were forced to take LWOP (and I'm not talking about covid).

​​​​​​​Do I need to post that graph of mainline's shrinking fleet over the last 15 years and how the subsids have continued to grow?

[Lapon]

When was the last time NJS had their routes given to another operator?
When was the last time NAA had their routes given to another operator?

Ill leave the ex Perth, Darwin, and Cairns NJS crew to asnwer that... spoiler altert - ALL of those routes.

On the East coast it seems to ebb and flow between mainline, njs, alliance and qlink.
The only thing is they dont hang thier hat on any particular flying being 'thiers'. Thats a uniquely mainline trait.

[ShandywithSugar]

Do I need to post that graph of mainline's shrinking fleet over the last 15 years and how the subsids have continued to grow?

​​​​​​​yes.

[Lapon]

The Direct threats that if they don't sign EBA10 that the A350s will go to a new entity.

So what did LH do? Take a stand and stick it to the man, or agree to the conditions on offer? Exactly, they did the same thing NJS pilots did with the 220.

[soseg]

Didn't mainline/SH agree to an eba variation at the same time NJS were negotiating an expired eba with a fleet confirmed as being retired.

A bit rich to claim it was the subsidiaries undercutting mainline on that one when it was mainline who reached agreement while NJS were still fighting thiers.

I'll bite again. Here's another way to look at it.

GFC era god knows how many took LWOP and went overseas etc. That's still fresh in the minds of any pre-2016 hire.

Things are now looking good by QF standards. Dreamliners, be it only a dozen or so, are trickeling in.
Project Sunrise is announced. The direct flights like PER LHR seem to be very good money makers.
EBA 10 is up for negotiation. No negotiation. It's an ultimatum and the International CEO literally says to them, "Guys, I can't make this any clearer. If you vote no then we will give the a350s to a new entity", all while everyone in oz is aware pilots are leaving daily from Hong Kong and potentially would jump at this new subsidiary offer to crew a350s and live in Australia again.
Fast forward another two years.
You've just been stood down the entire time, or if "lucky", you've just spent weeks if not months in constant isolation in Howard Springs or some east coast hotel or at home if lucky. The chinese flu has ****** everyone, and while most of your colleagues have been working at bunnings or contemplating life away from their familys trying to manage depression in hotel quarantine, the subsidiaries have been flying pretty much with very little to nil stand downs the entire pandemic.

Now they present to you the variation to the SH award for the a321 XLR. More strategic imperatives. This time however, no direct words from management that they'll give the jets to another entity, but when quizzed on this, they would not say they wouldn't consider it if the piltos voted no on the a321 deal.

Do you secure the planes and agree to this variation or fight it, after all the **** that's gone down the last 3 years, all while watching the subsids continue to fly through the pandemic?

​​​​​​​I'll wait for your reply, Lapon.

[soseg]

So what did LH do? Take a stand and stick it to the man, or agree to the conditions on offer? Exactly, they did the same thing NJS pilots did with the 220.

Covid was already causing havoc internationally when QF pilots votes yes on the EBA10. I don't remember off the top of my head the exact dates the votes were open but I believe the EBA was signed in April of 2020. Borders were closed about 2/3rds through March of that year.

A global pandemic starting and people knew international borders would close for 2-5 years and you think they would have risked voting no?

What were they meant to do?

[soseg]

yes.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/950x867/qgroup_45fad3429ca0195ce4d2c077f7f84d22cb6574db.jpg

[soseg]

they did the same thing NJS pilots did with the 220.

Were NJS pilots stood down much, if at all, during covid?

I distinctly remember receiving photos in an email from the QF Friday weekly news thing they send us all, of NJS management cutting cakes mid pandemic while I was stood down unpaid. Why were they cutting cakes? Because they were being awarded new routes on the 717 which were previously 737 routes.

Who else would have taken the a220s off them? It wouldn't have been mainline back then as they're clearly too expensive.
Very unlikely it would be NAA as they're over on the west coast and an unorganised mess struggling with their own ops.

What specifically was the threat they faced?

Yeah, they did the same thing.

[Check_Thrust]

Were NJS pilots stood down much, if at all, during covid?

I distinctly remember receiving photos in an email from the QF Friday weekly news thing they send us all, of NJS management cutting cakes mid pandemic while I was stood down unpaid. Why were they cutting cakes? Because they were being awarded new routes on the 717 which were previously 737 routes.

Who else would have taken the a220s off them? It wouldn't have been mainline back then as they're clearly too expensive.
Very unlikely it would be NAA as they're over on the west coast and an unorganised mess struggling with their own ops.

What specifically was the threat they faced?

Yeah, they did the same thing.

I am not going to say that NJS had a harder time during COVID than LH crews as that is obviously not the case. The international border restrictions and quarantine requirements for those that operated were a lot harsher than those imposed on domestic interstate operations.

However, there were significant standdowns imposed on various NJS bases (again not as harsh as what would of been imposed on international crews, I am not trying to imply this was the case). There was only one NJS base that wasn't stood down which was Perth due to the intrastate mining routes they served (I believe they were subjected to forced annual leave at one point but obviously not the same as being stood down). Every other NJS base (BNE, CNS, CBR, HBA & SYD) were subjected to various lengths of stand downsin 2020 (I believe but could be corrected that HBA had the longest standdown of the NJS bases of about 9 months). Afterwards PER, despite never being stood down was subjected to a base closure along with CNS. After said closures and transfers another round of standdowns occured again during 2021.

During the NJS EBA "negotiations" a direct threat was made to the NJS pilots that if a no vote occurred that the A220 would be given to another operator and the NJS pilot group would be made redundant with the retirement of the 717. It was implied that the operator would most likely then be Network.

Even if one doubts that Network or other entity had the ability to take on the A220 flying many did not doubt that Qantas IR wouldn't pass up the opportunity to make an example of an employee group at the time.

[aussieflyboy]

Wasn’t NJS flying domestic routes in Australia (Airlink) before QF even had a domestic arm? Maybe Mainline took the flying off the Aussie owned NJS.

[Farman Biplane]

TLDR: When will the NJS A220 NTR jobs be offered?

[kettles]

TLDR: When will the NJS A220 NTR jobs be offered?

Sounds like the back half of next year. Would expect to see ads prior to then to facilitate lead times on recruitment

[dr dre]

Wasn’t NJS flying domestic routes in Australia (Airlink) before QF even had a domestic arm? Maybe Mainline took the flying off the Aussie owned NJS.

Airlink (NJS) was formed as a subsidiary of Australian (TAA) in 1989. QF took over Australian and absorbed it into mainline so in reality NJS was to Australian then what they are to QF now.

[VH-FTS]

All you grumpy old fools pointing fingers at each other, when the real threat to anyone employed within the Qantas group is all the outsourcing to Alliance and their e190s.

[morno]

Wasn’t NJS flying domestic routes in Australia (Airlink) before QF even had a domestic arm? Maybe Mainline took the flying off the Aussie owned NJS.

NJS was only a contractor for QF

[aussieflyboy]

Airlink (NJS) was formed as a subsidiary of Australian (TAA) in 1989. QF took over Australian and absorbed it into mainline so in reality NJS was to Australian then what they are to QF now.

Interesting. So basically NJS has been around for as long as Domestic Mainline however were predominately operating regional routes and had bases in ‘regional’ areas (DRW, CNS, TSV, HBA ect). Australian and now QF Mainline don’t have an aircraft of an appropriate size to operate on routes like MEL-CFS or DRW-ASP. Their pay reflects that they operated a smaller aircraft than Mainline.

What has changed recently (since Qantas management purchased the business) is that Qantas management has closed all their regional bases and is trying to operate them on more domestic mainline routes. From overheard convos on the crew bus NJS Pilots have no interest in stealing routes and their life has got considerably more miserable since Qantas took them over.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Were NJS pilots stood down much, if at all, during covid?

I distinctly remember receiving photos in an email from the QF Friday weekly news thing they send us all, of NJS management cutting cakes mid pandemic while I was stood down unpaid. Why were they cutting cakes? Because they were being awarded new routes on the 717 which were previously 737 routes.

Who else would have taken the a220s off them? It wouldn't have been mainline back then as they're clearly too expensive.
Very unlikely it would be NAA as they're over on the west coast and an unorganised mess struggling with their own ops.

What specifically was the threat they faced?

Yeah, they did the same thing.

At the risk of feeding the trolls, I’ll correct some of the deliberate misinformation here.

NAA, as you say is in WA but an AOC is little more than a piece of paper. The location is almost irrelevant to Qantas management or NJS. The threat was that the A220 would be placed under the NAA AOC and every NJS pilot would wither on the vine with the 717. If pilots wanted to continue their employment, they would have to apply to work on the A220. The A220 was going NAA, and the East coast bases would continue on the NAA EBA.

If/when you grow some balls, you should direct your agro towards the CEO as he/she/it is responsible for fracturing the pilot group purely for IR reasons.

[Lapon]

From overheard convos on the crew bus NJS Pilots have no interest in stealing routes and their life has got considerably more miserably since Qantas took them over.

You might say NJS were actually the biggest losers out of covid as they ended up in the Qantas group :E

In all seriousness no group entity or contractor owns any routes. Some might have traditionally operated them for a long time, but times and aircraft utilization changes... thats going to become very apparent as the 220s come online and the smallest mainline aircraft potentially ends up a 200+ seat 321.

[Capn Bloggs]

Yes, and we should remember that NJS/Cobham was operating intra-WA well before "Qantas" came along.

[soseg]

At the risk of feeding the trolls, I’ll correct some of the deliberate misinformation here.

NAA, as you say is in WA but an AOC is little more than a piece of paper. The location is almost irrelevant to Qantas management or NJS. The threat was that the A220 would be placed under the NAA AOC and every NJS pilot would wither on the vine with the 717. If pilots wanted to continue their employment, they would have to apply to work on the A220. The A220 was going NAA, and the East coast bases would continue on the NAA EBA.

If/when you grow some balls, you should direct your agro towards the CEO as he/she/it is responsible for fracturing the pilot group purely for IR reasons.

Yes I am aware NAA management were approached behind the scenes about the a220 if NJS were to vote no. Still, good luck. Disorganised, and big whoop going from the 2nd lowest paid to the lowest paid.

Don't worry. My gripe is with management. And the scabs who save the day for $360/day RDO call outs.

What has changed recently (since Qantas management purchased the business) is that Qantas management has closed all their regional bases and is trying to operate them on more domestic mainline routes. From overheard convos on the crew bus NJS Pilots have no interest in stealing routes and their life has got considerably more miserable since Qantas took them over.

Spot on.

[No upgrade]

If/when you grow some balls, you should direct your agro towards the CEO as he/she/it is responsible for fracturing the pilot group purely for IR reasons.

Surely it is the mainline pilots that are responsible. They have consistently given QF management their blessing to create new entities and alter egos for the next pilot generations. Even B scales for their own new hires. And all for what? 3% and a biscuit. Gradually realising their own stupidity and inattention to detail in the eba, and now crying over thousands of lost career opportunities of their own making. Selfishness understandable, but some of the hypocrisy here is untenable.

[SITTINGBULL]

All you grumpy old fools pointing fingers at each other, when the real threat to anyone employed within the Qantas group is all the outsourcing to Alliance and their e190s.

What might you think will happen to the Alliance deal once NJS get all their A220s?

[Deano969]

What might you think will happen to the Alliance deal once NJS get all their A220s?
QQ will get even more work....

[VH-FTS]

What might you think will happen to the Alliance deal once NJS get all their A220s?
They take more flying from the other group airlines. QF have signed a lengthy contract with Alliance to use many airframes. Not going to be a lot of work left for the 737s once the 220s and 190s are fully up to speed.

[aussieflyboy]

It’s been said before:

E Jets = Old Cobham NJS work
A220 = B737 work
A321 = A330 work

It’ll be their 10 year plan.

No more engineers needed to dispatch domestic aircraft. Cheaper Pilot wages with less complex EAs. Upper management all walk away with millions.

[Poto]

That 10year plan is slowly unraveling.

[The_Equaliser]

Except none of the replacement aircraft suggested can do the job of the aircraft they would replace. Clapped out E190s only carry about 94 pax and have no wifi or entertainment. A220 problems just starting to emerge especially in regards to power plant, only carry about 150. A321 versus A330 not even worth discussing. As mentioned, JG pushed his agenda and seemingly won the day, but now it will all start to unravel.

[No upgrade]

A321 versus A330 not even worth discussing

Expect the 321XLR will operate on time, have functional IFE and WIFI, and not disappoint more often than not.
​​​​​​​

[transition_alt]

What people seem to not get their heads around is that slots aren’t increasing at airports. Every port is getting busier, but more slots aren’t magically appearing. Airports still aren’t building 20 year overdue runways. So aircraft need to be bigger.

Whilst I don’t doubt that some mainline work will go to NJS, these A321’s are needed for the triangle, plus other busy routes and also new emerging medium haul international markets. Why would QF commit to more than 20 when they don’t have a crystal ball to see 7 years down the track when we all go down the aviation rollercoaster again? Many 737’s have a lot of life left in them and the fleet replacement will take time with a dual fleet for a period. Whilst I don’t think we’ll see 75 x A321’s I think 50-60 would be in the ball park with the remainder being in the A330 replacement aircraft.
The replacement is being announced at the full year results and if you old guys think a smaller aircraft can replace the current capacity with the debacle of Australian airports and their slot system, you have to be kidding yourself.

As for the E190/A220, yes there will be work for them as a significant amount of new routes have been started throughout covid. This will naturally take some passengers from the main routes and more evenly distribute pax around the network.

[Lapon]

if you old guys think a smaller aircraft can replace the current capacity with the debacle of Australian airports and their slot system, you have to be kidding yourself.

Before 787s there were 747s, they served many ports, were mighty big and iconic, even bigger than the 787s.
It didn't matter in the face of yield management and contempt for the public. Alas, here we are.

A smaller aircraft can always replace a bigger one.

[markis10]

Clapped out E190s only carry about 94 pax and have no wifi or entertainment. .
You seem to be 2 years behind reality

[ShandywithSugar]

MEL - CBR initial route with Jooooohn G still sprucing SE Asia. Lookin good John. Got anyone to fly it yet?

[RENURPP]

You seem to be 2 years behind reality

I was a passenger in one last week, I would say that was a very appropriate description.

Certainly NO wifi or entertainment.

[dejapoo]

Get more small planes, where ya gonna park them? Melbourne converting prime position gates in to 'retail precincts' cos the moneys in overpriced coffee establisments yeah?

[markis10]

I was a passenger in one last week, I would say that was a very appropriate description.

Certainly NO wifi or entertainment.

Q streaming is being installed over the fleet for the last two years, given they have recent arrivals there will be exceptions to the rule

[KRUSTY 34]

Apparently to avoid having the flying go to one of the other entities in the group (divide and conquer 101), the Pilots were forced to accept another substandard EBA. Nothing new there I suppose, but just one of the "Pineapples" was being able to have the roster disrupted without mutual consent, a mere 3 days prior, rather than the accepted 2 weeks! When you factor in the planned long international sectors, a definite new low

Does anyone here know that JG was once a very effective pilot Rep?

What did your bonus come in at John?

A little more than 30 pieces of silver!

[swh]

It’s been said before:

E Jets = Old Cobham NJS work
A220 = B737 work
A321 = A330 work

It’ll be their 10 year plan.

No more engineers needed to dispatch domestic aircraft. Cheaper Pilot wages with less complex EAs. Upper management all walk away with millions.

Delta is pretty happy with the A220 expanding their fleet. Replacing ejets/mad dogs/717s. Longer legs, less fuel, better cabin experience for customers. Many of the strategies there will be copy and paste to QF.

The A220-300 can fly the same range as the A320neo, more than capable of flying BNE-DPS, SYD-MNL burning a lot less fuel. It will offer a lot of solutions for FIFO (TSV-ZNE) as well as opening up secondary international routes, eg CBR-AKL, ADL-AKL.

They are working on a A220-500 which will be around 170 seats, 20 more than the A220-300.

A321neo is a 756/767 replacement, A330 still can carry a lot more freight, fine for pax replacement flights.

[aussieflyboy]

I’ve heard rumours that these blokes were given new employment contracts and told if they refused to sign they would not be eligible for any future discretionary or bonus payments and have their Staff Travel benefits removed.

[Prop_Like_Pay]

What people seem to not get their heads around is that slots aren’t increasing at airports. Every port is getting busier, but more slots aren’t magically appearing. Airports still aren’t building 20 year overdue runways. So aircraft need to be bigger.

Whilst I don’t doubt that some mainline work will go to NJS, these A321’s are needed for the triangle, plus other busy routes and also new emerging medium haul international markets. Why would QF commit to more than 20 when they don’t have a crystal ball to see 7 years down the track when we all go down the aviation rollercoaster again? Many 737’s have a lot of life left in them and the fleet replacement will take time with a dual fleet for a period. Whilst I don’t think we’ll see 75 x A321’s I think 50-60 would be in the ball park with the remainder being in the A330 replacement aircraft.
The replacement is being announced at the full year results and if you old guys think a smaller aircraft can replace the current capacity with the debacle of Australian airports and their slot system, you have to be kidding yourself.

As for the E190/A220, yes there will be work for them as a significant amount of new routes have been started throughout covid. This will naturally take some passengers from the main routes and more evenly distribute pax around the network.

I’m a young guy, and an interesting trend to keep an eye on is the price increases in airfares since COVID and more and more full aircraft flying around the skies. Qantas expending less and moving full planes around, keeping their premium customers in an exclusivity bubble, might be the way to keep the shareholders happiest. Extra bums on seats for everyone else, I suppose. Reducing the numbers of seats in aircraft whilst maintaining that premium aura might just be what they’re after.

[MacTrim]

NJS ( or Nat Rex or Rex Jet ?) experienced B717 crews have to commit to 3yr $30k bond for the A220 BomBus. Ok if you’re in the right age group but if you’d been in NJS for 25+ yrs you may be wanting to plan a timely exit strategy ?

[Check_Thrust]

NJS ( or Nat Rex or Rex Jet ?) experienced B717 crews have to commit to 3yr $30k bond for the A220 BomBus. Ok if you’re in the right age group but if you’d been in NJS for 25+ yrs you may be wanting to plan a timely exit strategy ?

No bond applies to transfer from the B717 to the A220.

[aussieflyboy]

NJE is owned by REX. NJS is now a Qantas Group company.

The people that bought Cobham sold off all the different sections

Airline Services NJS - Qantas
Regional Services NJE - Rex
Special Mission - Leidos

From what I’ve heard NJS terms and conditions went backwards and they’re hating their new owners. NJS and Special Mission are happy enough with their owners.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

NJS ( or Nat Rex or Rex Jet ?) experienced B717 crews have to commit to 3yr $30k bond for the A220 BomBus. Ok if you’re in the right age group but if you’d been in NJS for 25+ yrs you may be wanting to plan a timely exit strategy ?


Haha, even if it were true, anywhere you go with that endorsement (likely the US) 30k is only a months salary after tax. But as someone has said it’s a non bonded endorsement. You would think NJS and Qantasss would be looking after their staff right now.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

What people seem to not get their heads around is that slots aren’t increasing at airports. .......Airports still aren’t building 20 year overdue runways. So aircraft need to be bigger.
No they don't. Slots aren't predicated just on RWY capacity. They take into account the rest of the airport infrastructure - check in capability, security capability, baggage handling capability etc.as well. Basically how many people can be moved through the building in a given time. If for instance your capacity in a rolling hour is 1000 people, then once your schedules reach that 1000, no more slots are approved. It doesn't matter if those 1000 are on 3 aircraft or 10, the declared capacity is fixed. It's reviewed seasonally, but fixed for the season. An airline wishing to upgauge to a larger aircraft may in fact lose their slot, all other things remaining equal. In fact, 3 737's arriving 10 minutes apart is easier for the airport to handle than 1 A380 dumping 550 pax at once. Of course more aircraft require more physical infrastructure, but sometimes not much more than less larger ones.

[Capn Bloggs]

TIEW, good to see the tail wagging the dog. :rolleyes:

[bazza stub]

No they don't. Slots aren't predicated just on RWY capacity. They take into account the rest of the airport infrastructure - check in capability, security capability, baggage handling capability etc.as well. Basically how many people can be moved through the building in a given time. If for instance your capacity in a rolling hour is 1000 people, then once your schedules reach that 1000, no more slots are approved. It doesn't matter if those 1000 are on 3 aircraft or 10, the declared capacity is fixed. It's reviewed seasonally, but fixed for the season. An airline wishing to upgauge to a larger aircraft may in fact lose their slot, all other things remaining equal. In fact, 3 737's arriving 10 minutes apart is easier for the airport to handle than 1 A380 dumping 550 pax at once. Of course more aircraft require more physical infrastructure, but sometimes not much more than less larger ones.

So I’m holding at BMFUK because of check in staff? K

[airdualbleedfault]

So I’m holding at BMFUK because of check in staff? K
No, you're holding at BMFK because there is not enough staff (and probably not good enough equipment) to handle the appropriate arrivals/departures. You could compare Perth or Melbourne to just about any other developed country airport (apples for apples wrt runways etc) and realise that in some cases the movements per hour would be less than half in ar5etrayla

[aussieflyboy]

Delays to A220 deliveries according to ASX announcements. If my maths is correct does that not leave NJS with only 2 aircraft in July 2024? All 717s retired and only 2 A220s delivered.

[Alice Kiwican]

Delays to A220 deliveries according to ASX announcements. If my maths is correct does that not leave NJS with only 2 aircraft in July 2024? All 717s retired and only 2 A220s delivered.

Surely if that scenario was looking likely they’d delay retirement of 717? Or am I being too logical?

[MikeHatter732]

Delays to A220 deliveries according to ASX announcements. If my maths is correct does that not leave NJS with only 2 aircraft in July 2024? All 717s retired and only 2 A220s delivered.
Makes sense for how many crew they will have left at that point in time :}

[sandsthrudahrglass]

in fact they are accelerating the retirement program....rumours of ferrying two airframes at a time to the graveyard near vegas

[kettles]

in fact they are accelerating the retirement program....rumours of ferrying two airframes at a time to the graveyard near vegas

This isn't factual at all

[Skankhunt]

Will there be an A220 Brisbane base?

[aussieflyboy]

Will there be an A220 Brisbane base?

Id expect to see them everywhere that currently has Qantas 737s.

[ShandywithSugar]

Id expect to see them everywhere that currently has Qantas 737s.

Because they'll be flown by Qantas pilots on the SH award.

[SixDemonBag]

Because they'll be flown by Qantas pilots on the SH award.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/449x318/image_886057b2ea18efb2df51d1034f455e566d77f310.gif

[aussieflyboy]

I’ve noticed a sudden change in the branding of these aircraft recently. When first announced it was a ‘Qantas’ aircraft with ‘Qantas’ decals.

Now everything that mentions A220 seems to be ‘QantasLink’ and even the pictures they’re sending out to media/on socials ect. say ‘QantasLink’.

Why the confusion/secrecy of the paint scheme?

[SixDemonBag]

I’ve noticed a sudden change in the branding of these aircraft recently. When first announced it was a ‘Qantas’ aircraft with ‘Qantas’ decals.

Now everything that mentions A220 seems to be ‘QantasLink’ and even the pictures they’re sending out to media/on socials ect. say ‘QantasLink’.

Why the confusion/secrecy of the paint scheme?

why don’t you tell us, mate. You seem to be the expert.