L3Harris or others?

[Kevchenkho]

Hi gang.

I’ve recently got a place at L3Harris on the integrated ATPL course, however, as with everything I’ve had a few people try to put me off. And it has me thinking, is there anyone in here that has done it with them in the last year? I’ve seen the posts from a few years ago and during Covid so just want to know if they have addressed the issues.

The reason I chose integrated is I want to complete it as soon as possible and on paper they have good connections with airlines (maybe not so much easyJet now). I know ACS is a lot closer to where I live and it’s a modular course. The school gets great reviews but my preference is to get to an a320 or 737 as quick as possible, with ACS sounds like you will will likely end up at Loganair etc, (nothing wrong with that, I’m just aiming high)

any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Arena_33]

I almost guarantee going modular full time will end up being quicker than integrated with L3 - plus you'll save £50k+

[paco]

Look around the threads here - don't pay too much up front for any school, however many incentives there might be. They rely on your eagerness and impatience.

A small point - with integrated you don't get any paperwork at all until the last day. With modular, at least you get a PPL relatively soon. Plus, if there are any delays in your training (and many integrated schools have had those) you can at least switch.

[rudestuff]

I almost guarantee going modular full time will end up being quicker than integrated with L3 - plus you'll save £50k+
Agreed. It's entirely possible to do a PPL in 1 month, the ATPL exams in 4 months etc, but only if you dictate the pace.

[VariablePitchP]

Hi gang.

I’ve recently got a place at L3Harris on the integrated ATPL course, however, as with everything I’ve had a few people try to put me off. And it has me thinking, is there anyone in here that has done it with them in the last year? I’ve seen the posts from a few years ago and during Covid so just want to know if they have addressed the issues.

The reason I chose integrated is I want to complete it as soon as possible and on paper they have good connections with airlines (maybe not so much easyJet now). I know ACS is a lot closer to where I live and it’s a modular course. The school gets great reviews but my preference is to get to an a320 or 737 as quick as possible, with ACS sounds like you will will likely end up at Loganair etc, (nothing wrong with that, I’m just aiming high)

any help would be greatly appreciated.

You’ve swallowed L3’s advertising, hook line and sinker.

They’re a sausage factory dedicated to getting your money in their bank and you out the door as quickly as they can, if it’s the cheapest thing to do.

If giving you a 6 month delay or farming you out to a different country to complete the training because of utter incompetence and an inability to plan anything as that’s the cheapest option, then they’ll do that.

Airline placements? Please. Ask that to the ones that graduated over covid. Airlines are hiring, you’ll get a job. Realistically you’re going to Wizz or RYR if you’re unwilling to fly anything but an A320 or a 737, and they don’t care where you came from.

Quick word of advice, make that the last time you ever say that you don’t want to go somewhere like Loganair because you’re ‘aiming high’. That sort of entitlement and arrogance will get you nowhere. Places like L3 thrive on shiny jet syndrome, they want people who’ll be putting instagram photos of them in ridiculous pilot outfits on day 1 of groundschool rather than making an informed financial decision about where to train.

A job with a bonded type rating onto an ATR or an E-Jet will see you getting the same 500 hours CS25 as any 320/737 job would, without the extra 30K type rating debt, and the flying will likely be an awful lot more fun.

My honest advice? If you don’t swallow a slice of humble pie sharpish, you’ll be eaten alive by the sausage factories and may well be sat in two years time, jobless, wishing you’d taken it a little bit slower and with a little more weight given to the advice of everyone around you.

[portsharbourflyer]

This is another good reason to follow the FAA system and introduce an hours requirement. It removes those from the industry who only want to fly 737 or A320s.
Not saying the hours are relevant, but it is a better filter than finance.

By the way 737 or A320 are probably the lesst interesting jobs out there. If that is what you want.

Unfortunately Integrated Cadets are dominating recruitment again, L3 do seem to get sizeable numbers into Wizz Air.

[VariablePitchP]

This is another good reason to follow the FAA system and introduce an hours requirement. It removes those from the industry who only want to fly 737 or A320s.
Not saying the hours are relevant, but it is a better filter than finance.

By the way 737 or A320 are probably the lesst interesting jobs out there. If that is what you want.

Unfortunately Integrated Cadets are dominating recruitment again, L3 do seem to get sizeable numbers into Wizz Air.

’Another good reason’

There are no good reasons. The only reason is that it pushes Ts&Cs up. You could argue it’s a good thing, but then why stop there, make it 10,000 hours, that’ll do it.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

You’ve swallowed L3’s advertising, hook line and sinker.

They’re a sausage factory dedicated to getting your money in their bank and you out the door as quickly as they can, if it’s the cheapest thing to do.

If giving you a 6 month delay or farming you out to a different country to complete the training because of utter incompetence and an inability to plan anything as that’s the cheapest option, then they’ll do that.

Airline placements? Please. Ask that to the ones that graduated over covid. Airlines are hiring, you’ll get a job. Realistically you’re going to Wizz or RYR if you’re unwilling to fly anything but an A320 or a 737, and they don’t care where you came from.

Quick word of advice, make that the last time you ever say that you don’t want to go somewhere like Loganair because you’re ‘aiming high’. That sort of entitlement and arrogance will get you nowhere. Places like L3 thrive on shiny jet syndrome, they want people who’ll be putting instagram photos of them in ridiculous pilot outfits on day 1 of groundschool rather than making an informed financial decision about where to train.

A job with a bonded type rating onto an ATR or an E-Jet will see you getting the same 500 hours CS25 as any 320/737 job would, without the extra 30K type rating debt, and the flying will likely be an awful lot more fun.

My honest advice? If you don’t swallow a slice of humble pie sharpish, you’ll be eaten alive by the sausage factories and may well be sat in two years time, jobless, wishing you’d taken it a little bit slower and with a little more weight given to the advice of everyone around you.

You have been remarkably more restrained and polite than I would have been, although I am almost lost for words. That sort of comment would automatically remove any cadet I taught or came across from any chance of a recommendation for a job - a horrendous attitude, and frankly not indicative of someone interested in aviation, but interested in clout.

[ManFlex40]

Unfortunately Integrated Cadets are dominating recruitment again

This is categorically not true; though luck plays a huge part in terms of modular cadets choosing the right flight schools with the right airline links/ networking themselves in the industry.

This year alone, modular guys and girls (from non-L3 establishments) have landed jobs with traditionally ‘integrated favouring’ companies, EZY being the stand out player, and fellow modular pilots friends of mine have landed jobs with Ryanair, DHL, Wizz, Eastern, Loganair, Jet2, the list goes on.

From the horses mouth- when BA EuroFlyer open their low hour pilot recruitment at the end of the year, they have categorically stated that modular/integrated is not a factor in their selection process, simply meet the requirements and pass the assessments.

[mavisbacon]

If you do well with L3 you'll get a job. If you're not so good.........you've just wasted £100k. You decide.

[VariablePitchP]

If you do well with L3 you'll get a job. If you're not so good.........you've just wasted £100k. You decide.


If you do well get lucky, and time your course so you just so happen to pop out when airlines are recruiting and you could have got a job with a licence from anywhere anyway, with L3 you’ll get a job. If you're not so good.........you've just wasted £100k. You decide.

Sorry, I’m a pedant for typos, had to correct it.

[L1011effoh]

I’m sure that Loganair recruiters will read the original post! 🤣

[Contact Approach]

Egos and successful aviation careers don't usually go hand in hand... the OP will learn in good time I suspect.

[parkfell]

……. I know ACS is a lot closer to where I live and it’s a modular course. The school gets great reviews but my preference is to get to an a320 or 737 as quick as possible, with ACS sounds like you will will likely end up at Loganair etc, (nothing wrong with that, I’m just aiming high)
any help would be greatly appreciated.

Grasshopper

Listen to the very sound advice given by those who postered earlier. You really must pay close attention as to what was said.

As someone from Bathgate, Perth is the obvious place to train. The Modular route is far cheaper, and if you really focus you can achieve CPL/IR as quickly as a 60 week which is the timescale for an ab-initio Integrated Course at FTE Jerez (note 1)

L3 would be a courageous choice given their recent history. There list of unhappy customers is huge. Snake oil salesmen are to be avoided at all costs.

As for aiming high ~ an admiral goal if not an aspiration, but starting a career at Loganair is an ideal place (note 1).
Multi sector days where you can experience all four seasons during one duty.
Far better experiences such as visual approaches onto short runways to fine tune your skills as a junior birdman.

On the other hand, if you have money to burn & in no particular hurry to complete, then fill your boots with L3. But don’t come back here complaining that it was not what you expected. Sympathy there will be none.

Note1. Disclosure : I have worked for both Loganair & FTE Jerez

[paco]

And I was in the next hangar :) You won't get a better start.

[olster]

Not L3 under any circumstances. Awful.