Including sim time in total time

[bloodandiron]

I'm still very low time and trying to get past the sub 500hr mark so I can start applying to some mobs and get a better chance of a full time flying job without having to compete with the other sub 500hr newbies. I've got 25 hours in the sim, which is included by definition in total aeronautical experience. Should I use this number on my resume, or flight time as pilot (which doesn't include sim time)? Thanks

[43Inches]

I'm still very low time and trying to get past the sub 500hr mark so I can start applying to some mobs and get a better chance of a full time flying job without having to compete with the other sub 500hr newbies. I've got 25 hours in the sim, which is included by definition in total aeronautical experience. Should I use this number on my resume, or flight time as pilot (which doesn't include sim time)? Thanks

Be careful as to what the definition of "simulator" time. Are you talking about an approved full motion sim that replicates a specific type, and can be used for type ratings, or a fixed synthetic trainer approved for simulated IMC practice only. Synthetic trainer practice can be added to your instrument (ground) time, but not really relevant for gaining employment.

[Mach E Avelli]

On your resume enter it clearly as 'simulator' if it's a 'proper' one; otherwise it's probably irrelevant and claiming it may not be helpful.
​​​​Same as time in various types : be clear about dual, co pilot (if a multi crew type) and PIC. Avoid laying out the resume with columns listing what you have flown
​​​where total time is made to look like command time. Old tricks that don't work.
500 hours is just a number. If you present well at 450 hours and your competitors have 600 hours but produce poorly written resumes or sloppy attitude at interview, an employer won't worry too much about a mere few hours.

[drpixie]

Do take care. If you claim 500 hrs and get a job on that basis, you wouldn't want to fall short if the company has 500 hrs insurances minimums. Perhaps be clear about it - identify PIC hrs, pilot hrs, sim hrs. And night and IFR - I've never been concerned about peoples IMC hrs, but insurance/client might specify IFR hrs (hrs of flight under IFR rules)

[Gne]

Bit of drift but may be useful for some.
Heard a rumour from a mate in Brisbane that there's a group arranging full motion certified sim time somewhere in the region for under USD 800 an hour. Came about in a conversation about availability of CASA approved sim instructors for 737-800 and A320.

Gne

[Capt Fathom]

I think you are grasping at straws if you think simulator time counts towards aeronautical experience! Yes it is experience…. but no, it isn’t.
Aeronautical experience means you have been airborne in an aircraft and your life has been on the line. That doesn’t happen in a simulator.

[43Inches]

Bit of drift but may be useful for some.
Heard a rumour from a mate in Brisbane that there's a group arranging full motion certified sim time somewhere in the region for under USD 800 an hour. Came about in a conversation about availability of CASA approved sim instructors for 737-800 and A320.

Gne

Not sure at all what the point of having 737 sim time is. All you do is make it hard for your self in the interview if you are not type rated as they will see you've had practice rather than starting from scratch and will assess you from a higher base. If the point is to build jet time to somehow apply for a job its actually going to count against you as most interviewers will probably look on it as more stuff they have to undo before they start training company procedures. Only thing it might be useful is doing an O/S licence conversion outside an airline, but most will do all that for you if you have the time on type.

[ahwalk01]

Total time = flight time.

[Mach1Muppet]

Had a mate apply for a job with 250hrs 'total time', it was more like 200hrs actual flying time and 50 hrs sim..... Fact of the matter is they were below insurance minimums and didn't get the job. My understanding is total flying time is accurate total aeronautical experience is negligible at low hours.

[bloodandiron]

I think you are grasping at straws if you think simulator time counts towards aeronautical experience! Yes it is experience…. but no, it isn’t.
Aeronautical experience means you have been airborne in an aircraft and your life has been on the line. That doesn’t happen in a simulator.

It is included in aeronautical experience as per the regs.

Had a mate apply for a job with 250hrs 'total time', it was more like 200hrs actual flying time and 50 hrs sim..... Fact of the matter is they were below insurance minimums and didn't get the job. My understanding is total flying time is accurate total aeronautical experience is negligible at low hours.
Well that really is the crux of my question and a definite answer by a HOFO/big dog would be sweet - does insurance and contracts go off total flight time as pilot or aeronautical experience? The 500 hour mobs I'm thinking of have stipulations in their contracts for pilots to have 500 or at least be near 500hrs.

[Mach E Avelli]

It is included in aeronautical experience as per the regs.


Well that really is the crux of my question and a definite answer by a HOFO/big dog would be sweet - does insurance and contracts go off total flight time as pilot or aeronautical experience? The 500 hour mobs I'm thinking of have stipulations in their contracts for pilots to have 500 or at least be near 500hrs.
As an ex HOFO who sometimes hired low time pilots to fill F/O slots, I looked at two things in a candidate’s logbook.
The first was time to solo. North of 20 hours rang alarm bells. 10 to 15 hours suggested fairly normal learning ability.
The second was proportion of solo to dual. Too much dual, not good.
We had one guy turn up for a job. Daddy was investing heavily in the airline to buy his golden boy a seat in the B737. I don’t remember his total hours, but I think about 600. He had significant multi time, but it was ALL dual. Clearly, no operator trusted him enough to turn him loose solo. He had never been employed as a pilot, so all his hours had been at daddy’s expense.
He also had quite a lot of B737 simulator time, though no type rating. Under pressure, I reluctantly gave him a go. Predictably, he turned out to be useless.
That was confirmed when he went on to a couple of overseas jobs with airlines not known for very high standards, and yet even there he did not last long.
My point in all this is that the logbook time a discerning chief pilot will likely be interested in when hiring entry level pilots is genuine PIC; not dual, and not whatever was gained playing pretend in simulators.
Insurance minimums and customer contract requirements can often be negotiated if the operator puts up a good enough case. They should do that for a deserving candidate.

[prickly]

Drifting a little, but out of interest, do long or medium haul crews log time in the bunk as flight time.

[Mach E Avelli]

Drifting a little, but out of interest, do long or medium haul crews log time in the bunk as flight time.
There’s plenty of discussion on old PPrune threads about this.
In short, generally an operator must assign one pilot to be the commander . The buck stops with that person, so it would seem reasonable for him/ her to log the entire fight. A ship’s captain is not on the bridge all the time, but the total voyage time is still credited as sea time. No difference in an aeroplane. As the commander, even resting in the bunk, one foot would be on the floor and one eye half open. Unless there is some other agreement with the authorities or the union, remaining crew members log time on flight deck duty, ie the time spent reading the newspaper, doing the crossword and drinking coffee.
It ultimately depends on what the local authorities rule, if they rule. If they don’t, how flight time is logged should be operator policy. Reputable operators periodically audit pilot logbooks to prevent fraudulent claims. Electronic logbook systems used by airlines have various rules that should clarify experience.
Except in India, where it is all too common for pilots to log everything, including time in the crew bus. There was one case of a 22 ( or thereabouts) year old pilot claiming some ridiculous number of hours, which worked out at about 1000 hours a year since leaving primary school. I have received a few less than credible resumes from that part of the world.
Bottom line is don’t bull**** your hours, as one day you will get called out.