Please, somebody put me off flying…

[speedbird91]

Evening all,

Long time lurking, infrequent poster here.

I’m in the incredibly fortunate position to be a Train Driver here in the UK for a long distance, high speed Train Operating Company, which (despite what the Daily Fail like to promote), is a fantastically lucrative role for both work-life balance, and for the wage slip each month. Each night I get to go home, see my wife, attend parties (most of the time) and the railway provides a lifestyle that we sadly all know aviation definitely does not.

However…

The goal, dream, ambition, call it what you will, is to fly commercially.

How can it be, that an industry that’s so volatile, provides significantly less time off, lower pay, far worse conditions, and general mental peril, can STILL have this appeal to somebody in such a lucky position?

I’m 32 now, so likely past the stage of these MPL programmes, but I still dream of the day I enrol up to BGS to begin those lovely 14 exams.

My request is this;

Please, somebody… put me off flying!

[Alicantino92]

I'm in a somewhat similar situation; early 30s, also a long-time lurker on different networks, forums and social media.

Now, after years of saving up, I still came to the conclusion that I would not want to live with the thought of "if only I had done this or that"....

Mind you, the plan is a modular training route alongside my current job outside aviation and without a loan to avoid unnecessary financial risk.

I wish you the best in making a wise decision!

Alicantino92

[Hats.On.To.Fly]

Why not get a PPL and enjoy flying as a hobby. Do enough hours and become an FI on the weekends at a local flying club.

You are in a good career, well paid, good work-life balance.
​​​​​​ That will all go out of the proverbial window for the next 5 years at least. Then hope you get a nearby base when you get a job, you'll be there for 3-4 years or uproot and move elsewhere.

[portsharbourflyer]

Only issue with that plan is long term part time instructing is exhausting, 1 or 2 days part time along side another job can mean working 6 or 7 days a week in total.

[Uplinker]

Flying PPL Cessna 172 or PA 28's is NOTHING like airline flying, which I call 'coffee and shirtsleeves flying'. I would liken it to driving, say, an old Mk 1 Mini or Landrover, with no radio or aircon or driver aids, bad wipers etc. and very noisy and rattly, versus, say, driving a modern luxury coach. The PPL aircraft are small, basic, noisy and cramped, airliners are (mostly) smooth, quiet and sophisticated.

However; Difficult rosters, maximum hours and 35 minute turn-arounds are exhausting, day after day.

After 20 years airline flying, and two airlines going out of business; I would dearly love to get a train driver's job, but it is proving very difficult to get into.
.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

An oldie but a goody:

"One fine hot summer's afternoon saw a Cessna 150 flying in the pattern at a quiet country airfield. The instructor, bothered with the student's inability to maintain altitude in the thermals, was getting impatient at sometimes having to take over the controls. Just then he saw a twin-engine Cessna 5,000 feet above him and thought, Another 1,000 hours of this and I qualify for the twin charter job! Aaahh, to be a real pilot, going somewhere!

"The Cessna 402 was already late, and the boss had told the pilot that this charter was for one of the company's premier clients. He'd already set maximum continuous thrust and the cylinders didn't like it in the summer day's heat. He was at 6,000 feet with a 20-knot headwind. Today was the sixth day straight and he was pretty tired of fighting these engines. Maybe if he got 10,000 feet out of them the headwind might die off-geez, those cylinder temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a Boeing 737 leaving a contrail at 33,000 feet in the serene blue sky. Oh, man, he thought, my interview is next month. I just hope I don't blow it! A nice jet job, above the weather, no snotty passengers to wait for....aaahh.

"The 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy clear air turbulence at Flight Level 330 and air traffic control advised that lower levels were not available because of traffic. The captain, who was only recently advised that his destination was below runway visual range minimums, had slowed to long-range cruise to try and hold off a possible in-flight diversion, hoping the later arrival would ensure that the fog had lifted to Category II approach minimums. The company negotiations broke down yesterday and it looked as if everyone was going to take a pay cut. The first officers would be particularly hard-hit as their pay wasn't anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding on a speed compromise between long-range cruise and turbulence penetration speed, the captain looked up and saw a Concorde at Mach 2-plus. Tapping his first officer's shoulder as the 737 took another bashing, he said, 'Now that's what we should be on. Huge pay, super fast, not too many routes, not too many legs, above the turbulence. Yes, that's the life.'

"Flight Level 590 was not what the Concorde pilot wanted anyway and he considered FL570. Already the total air temperature was creeping up again and they would have to either descend or slow down. That rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the flight engineer had said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that he'd like to see. The Concorde descended to FL570, but the radiation was still quite high, even though the notam indicated good conditions below FL610. Evening turned into night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the first officer could see a tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of myriad stars. 'Hey, Captain,' he called as he pointed, 'must be the space shuttle.' The captain thought about how a shuttle mission must be the be-all and end-all in aviation. Above the gunk, no radiation problems, no fuel transfer problems...aaahh.

"Discovery was into its twenty-seventh orbit, and perigee was 200 feet out from nominated rendezvous altitude with the communications satellite. The robot arm was virtually unusable and a walk may become necessary. The 200-foot predicted error would necessitate a corrective burn, and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be required. Houston continually asked what the commander wanted to do, but the advice they proffered wasn't much help. The commander had already been 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 minutes to himself. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the commander to the scope. 'Have a look at this, sir-isn't this the kind of flying you said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?' The commander peered through the telescope and cried, 'Aaahh, yes. Now that’s flying! I'd give anything just to be doing that down there!'

"The shuttle commander was looking at a Cessna 150 in the pattern at a quiet country airfield on a nice, bright sunny afternoon."

I believe many of us on here can vouch for just how accurate this is.

[rudestuff]

The same questions get asked time and time again:
"I'm 23½ - am I too old to become a pilot?"
"Should I go modular or integrated?"
"Is this the best time to start training?"

Is a potential 20 year flying career long enough? If it is then 43 is not too late to start, people are starting in their 50s with diminishing returns obviously.
Would you rather pay £20 for a bottle of wine in a pub or £6 for the same bottle in a supermarket if having some wine was your primary concern? Only go integrated if there is a good reason to do so, like a job offer.
There's never a good time to start training, only a good time to finish training: Modular gives you more control over that while Integrated just spits you out at the end.

My advice to someone who wants to be a pilot but keep their current job as long a possible:
1 Get a class one medical
2 Use your holiday allowance training in Florida in two blocks of 2 weeks. That's enough to get a PPL.
3 Study for the ATPLs alongside your current job. By the time you've finished them you'll have only spent 25% of your budget but done 75% of the work. Then you can either take another 4 weeks holiday the next year or quit and go full time.

[paco]

Good advice. I used to fly a Beaver for the British Army and used to roll up regularly alongside the DC10s etc on the stands at Calgary airport to pick up visitors. The number of times the crews used to come over and say they wished they were still flying one made me not bother with airlines particularly but stay with machines that require a bit of myself as an input to be flown properly, like driving an old Bentley rather than a new one, hence stopping at the 212. I couldn't quite do the 139 :)

[RogueOne]

Please, somebody… put me off flying!

Happy to chat if you PM me.

[Chris the Robot]

One of the drivers at my place went part-time (two weeks on, two weeks off) so he could do a modular CPL/ME/IR with the aim of flying on a zero hours contract during his two week periods away from the railway once qualified. Then COVID happened and he allowed his ratings to lapse, though he has family flying commercially for a major UK airline.

Whether or not such a strategy would still be viable I don't know. That being said, I regretfully don't see a BALPA CC anywhere being in quite the same league as the ASLEF DCC at my place.

[Northern Monkey]

Excellent post by speed trim fail above.

I’ve had a very fortunate career and now fly a modern jet around the world way above the weather (most of the time) and get paid pretty well for doing so. Although increasingly not well enough in my view. I’ve been doing this long enough now though that the novelty has well and truly worn off. It becomes a job just like any other. It is unusually demanding in terms of rostering, medical fitness, mental health when constantly jet lagged on the other side of the world & away from your family. The sim checks hang over you. Every time the economy hits a bump the management starts talking about redundancies. It cannot on any level be good for your physical health. I concluded some time ago that if someone gave me a million quid tomorrow I’d be gone in a heartbeat.

Just be realistic about it is all. There are worse things to do for a living but it does become a job with its own set of stresses & strains. If I could have somehow afforded to have kept flying as a hobby while earning decent money I would, in hindsight, have done so.

[Don Coyote]

I’m in the incredibly fortunate position to be a Train Driver here in the UK for a long distance, high speed Train Operating Company, which (despite what the Daily Fail like to promote), is a fantastically lucrative role for both work-life balance, and for the wage slip each month. Each night I get to go home, see my wife, attend parties (most of the time) and the railway provides a lifestyle that we sadly all know aviation definitely does not.


You won't have a work life balance full stop. Depending on your roster patterns, you will spend half your life trying to be awake when you want to be asleep and the other half trying to get to sleep when you want to be awake. You will suffer from poor food/diet on a daily basis and due to early starts and late finishes your days off will be much diminished, particularly so if you have any kind of commute to the airport. Unless you are on a regular roster pattern, you won't be able to accept invites to social events until your roster is published. Sadly, the aviation career has, over the years turned into a job where pilots are just thought of as over paid button pushers and the renumeration reflects that.

There are undoubtedly some good moments but they are few and far between. Aviation does appear to be an exciting, glamorous career but the reality is much different. The golden age of aviation has long passed. I would make the most of your current job, enjoy the work life balance and good renumeration and find a hobby that gives you the enjoyment that you (mistakenly) believe that aviation would give you.

I was fortunate enough to move into a different career and to retire early but most people that I know who have been in aviation for any length of time have gone part time as it is the only way they can cope with the lifestyle. That alone probably tells you all you need to know about being a pilot. You have a good job, a good lifestyle and probably a good pension, aviation will struggle to match that for you.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

You won't have a work life balance full stop. Depending on your roster patterns, you will spend half your life trying to be awake when you want to be asleep and the other half trying to get to sleep when you want to be awake. You will suffer from poor food/diet on a daily basis and due to early starts and late finishes your days off will be much diminished, particularly so if you have any kind of commute to the airport. Unless you are on a regular roster pattern, you won't be able to accept invites to social events until your roster is published. Sadly, the aviation career has, over the years turned into a job where pilots are just thought of as over paid button pushers and the renumeration reflects that.

There are undoubtedly some good moments but they are few and far between. Aviation does appear to be an exciting, glamorous career but the reality is much different. The golden age of aviation has long passed. I would make the most of your current job, enjoy the work life balance and good renumeration and find a hobby that gives you the enjoyment that you (mistakenly) believe that aviation would give you.

I was fortunate enough to move into a different career and to retire early but most people that I know who have been in aviation for any length of time have gone part time as it is the only way they can cope with the lifestyle. That alone probably tells you all you need to know about being a pilot. You have a good job, a good lifestyle and probably a good pension, aviation will struggle to match that for you.

That last sentence nails it. Flying for a hobby is the absolute best thing to do, believe me it is infinitely more fun than getting up at o dark thirty to fly to Tenerife for the umpteenth time. Ironically I have far less time and money to fly at the local club that almost anyone else there… make of that what you will.

[Gargleblaster]

Re the title of this thread: No one's going to put you off flying, only you self can do that.

Anyways, have seen a number of threads like this and started thinking why do people want to fly, well we can't, as we'd quickly find out if tried, but rather manipulating a machine that can fly.

So, is it:

Prestige
Some sort of romantic view of early aviation
Earning respect
Macho
Love of machinery
Unknown
Uniform
Fetish for cheap acomodation
Add

For myself, a humble PPL, it's the typical engineer brain: There's a class of machinery, operating in a given envelope of physics, requires effort to learn to operate, precision to operate - ergo have to do it. Bonus: lotsa fun for self, family and friends !

Sorry if slightly incoherent, had fun typing this...

[Procrastinus]

Carefull!
It is sometimes said that 'the grass is greener.......'

[zrx1200r]

I have to agree with other posters about getting your PPL first, it's great fun as a hobby, but as a career, you're not in control. Horrible shift patterns, you fit in with them. Stick to passenger train driving, your shifts will rarely start/finish before or after midnight decent salary allowing you to be able to afford a good lifestyle. Just don't transfer to freight train driving, I know this from experience, £120k+, shift patterns all over the place, no life, burnt out at 56. Add life to your days, not just days to your life.
You're only here once, enjoy it.

[Uplinker]

I would urge the OP to re-read post #12, and also post #6.

Don Coyote sums it up very well - aviation does have a glamorous image, and yes, piloting a modern jetliner can be exciting and thrilling - but also tedious and knackering - and the downsides are becoming greater and greater. Particularly rostering and the work-life balance, but also restrictions such as taking minimum fuel or MEL defects etc. The locked cockpit door has removed a lot of the fun of the job too.

And it sounds great to fly to, say, New York or San Francisco, but these days you might very well only have 18-24 hours there, so not long enough to do any meaningful sight seeing, and barely worth taking your family, (who probably won't be allowed to travel in the crew transport). I usually managed a 5-10km jog around Central Park or the city, but there isn't really enough time to hire a car and go somewhere. Shopping? well the pound is approaching parity with the dollar, so that has limited appeal now. You cannot drink much, (or anything), of course, and will probably need to (try to) sleep in the afternoon in the hotel before your flight home; while the cleaners are working and vacuuming outside your room, or the hotel-door slamming display team are staying on your corridor.

Or short-haul; doing 4 sectors a day with 40 minute turnarounds.
.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

I would urge you to re-read post #12, and also post #6.

Don Coyote sums it up very well - aviation does have a glamorous image, and yes, piloting a modern jetliner can be exciting and thrilling - but also tedious and knackering - and the downsides are becoming greater and greater. Particularly rostering and the work-life balance, but also restrictions such as taking minimum fuel or MEL defects etc. The locked cockpit door has removed a lot of the fun of the job too.

And it sounds great to fly to, say, New York or San Francisco, but these days you might very well only have 18-24 hours there, so not long enough to do any meaningful sight seeing, and barely worth taking your family, (who probably won't be allowed to travel in the crew transport). I usually managed a 5-10km jog around Central Park or the city, but there isn't really enough time to hire a car and go somewhere. Shopping? well the pound is approaching parity with the dollar, so that has limited appeal now. You cannot drink much, (or anything), of course, and will probably need to (try to) sleep in the afternoon in the hotel before your flight home; while the cleaners are working and vacuuming outside your room, or the hotel-door slamming display team are staying on your corridor.

Or short-haul; doing 4 sectors a day with 40 minute turnarounds.

This sums up my feelings on long haul - I love travelling, but I love to travel with my family and have enough time to have a good explore out of the cities; I am blessed with a wife who enjoys wandering in new countries and exploring. Part time short haul is a lot more manageable but comes with a commensurate reduction in wages and of course there is no guarantee you will get it, and the reason it has to be part time in the end is that it is absolutely punishing and a very intense lifestyle at work.

The chap who first taught me aerobatics was a career Instructor and aerobatic pilot, and I can still remember him saying “When you first got a driving licence I strongly suspect the last thing you wanted to go out and drive was the largest bus you could find in order to go up and down motorways for hours at a time.” This was a guy with time on Harvards, chipmunks, an L39, almost any light twin you care to name… and that’s where the real flying pleasure is (or perhaps the grass is greener?).

There are “flying” parts of the job I love, absolutely, but for me the real pleasure at work comes around working with my colleagues and, surprisingly, making the difference for customers - even if that is just taking the time for a chat whilst waiting for assistance to arrive for someone who needs a wheelchair, or being able to sort someone’s connection, or even just delivering the news that we no longer have a 90 minute slot 😂.

[mrguy]

I'm in a somewhat similar situation and had the same trouble trying to decide if this was a path I wanted to go down.

In the end I decided to go for it, I'd rather finish all the training and never get a job that to never have done it and always be thinking what if. I could always go back to my old career.

Also don't forget that pprune tends to paint a broadly negative picture of the job and the industry. if you loved your job and we're happy, why would you come on a forum to tell everyone about it? Much more likely to happen with someone who isn't having a positive experience.

Do it. Go modular, get a class 1 medical and your PPL as a starting point. Getting that far may even just "scratch the itch".
​​​​​

​

[speedbird91]

Evening all,

Rather busy week followed by a weekend away, hence the lack of replies! (Ironically both of these items probably wouldn’t have happened in the aviation sector).

There are some really useful, thought provoking comments here regarding my original post. It’s great to hear people’s opinions on both sides of the fence.

I should have also stated in the OP that I’m fortunate enough to hold a PPL too, so can still fly for leisure.

When aviation is so volatile, safe jobs are few and far between, work-life balance is nil & void and the cost to gain a RHS job is eye-brow raising, do we still wish to fly commercially? Perhaps there is no answer.

All of the above stories are fantastic, thank you all so much for sharing your views!

[excrab]

I’ve always tried to encourage anyone who wants to fly for a living, but….

I’ve worked for four flying clubs, only one of which now exists, three corporate operators, none of which are still flying, and seven airlines, only two of which are still in business. I’ve been made redundant from airlines twice, and each time spent most of the family’s savings to live while searching for another job, and now find myself at the age of sixty two either getting up at three in the morning to go to work, or landing at four in the morning to finish work. I get to see horrible grimy parts of airports that passengers never see and spend hours waiting in the night for ambulifts and crew busses that are horribly late or never turn up. I might or might not work for a major uk tour operator whose management don’t give a stuff that any of it’s pilots or cabin crews who were flying on the morning that free bidding for winter leave opened cannot book a single weekend day off between October this year and March 2024.

Of the thirty eight years and almost twenty thousand hours of my flying career so far, it would be fair to say that the most enjoyable were the seven years at the beginning that I spent instructing for a decent flying club that treated it’s staff well, and was prepared to help finance advanced instructor ratings, so kept instructing interesting. All the rest was just done for money.

Drive the train, have a life that your family can enjoy, earn good money in a secure job protected by proper union recognition and which has a decent and secure pension scheme. Fly for fun, instruct as a hobby.

“Why do we still wish to fly commercially ?” Because we have to make our own mistakes, and people only give us the advice that we want to hear…

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

I’ve always tried to encourage anyone who wants to fly for a living, but….

I’ve worked for four flying clubs, only one of which now exists, three corporate operators, none of which are still flying, and seven airlines, only two of which are still in business. I’ve been made redundant from airlines twice, and each time spent most of the family’s savings to live while searching for another job, and now find myself at the age of sixty two either getting up at three in the morning to go to work, or landing at four in the morning to finish work. I get to see horrible grimy parts of airports that passengers never see and spend hours waiting in the night for ambulifts and crew busses that are horribly late or never turn up. I might or might not work for a major uk tour operator whose management don’t give a stuff that any of it’s pilots or cabin crews who were flying on the morning that free bidding for winter leave opened cannot book a single weekend day off between October this year and March 2024.

Of the thirty eight years and almost twenty thousand hours of my flying career so far, it would be fair to say that the most enjoyable were the seven years at the beginning that I spent instructing for a decent flying club that treated it’s staff well, and was prepared to help finance advanced instructor ratings, so kept instructing interesting. All the rest was just done for money.

Drive the train, have a life that your family can enjoy, earn good money in a secure job protected by proper union recognition and which has a decent and secure pension scheme. Fly for fun, instruct as a hobby.

“Why do we still wish to fly commercially ?” Because we have to make our own mistakes, and people only give us the advice that we want to hear…

:D

I will say that compared to the “aviation dream” sold on social media, pprune is a far healthier balance - although of course it does on occasion swing too far the other way.

[redsnail]

While my path into a jet is significantly different to the usual paths in the UK/EU, there was still a lot of risk involved.
It did involve moving several thousand kilometers from home, and after a while, 10,000km from home. So, to that end, you do miss a lot of family and friends time.
When I was converting my Aus ATPL to a JAA (now EASA) one, one of our teachers went around the class asking what we were looking for in a job.
All of my class mates said "jet job". I said "stable roster". Our teacher paused, pointed at me, and said to the class "listen to her, she knows".
It's very true, a stable roster is a precious thing. It gives you some semblance of control of your life.
I really love my job, it's fun, rewarding, different and challenging (it's not an airline job). However, I am really looking forward to going part time in September.

[Uplinker]

.......either getting up at three in the morning to go to work, or landing at four in the morning to finish work. I get to see horrible grimy parts of airports that passengers never see and spend hours waiting in the night for ambulifts and crew busses that are horribly late or never turn up.

And:

.......whose management don’t give a stuff that any of it’s pilots or cabin crews............cannot book a single weekend day off between October this year and March 2024.

Airline unions are very weak, and the Terms and Conditions are eroding away. What annoys me is that I lose income or work/life balance just so that holidaymakers can have cheap 'plane tickets - why am I subsidising them?

Add to that; idiots on guard frequency, slots and tech problems, or waiting for fuel, catering or baggage to get to your aircraft.

I was recently on a train where the next driver was late, (or called out to cover illness), but that was a one-off in all the many years that I have used trains. I have never seen airline type delays on trains, nor ever seen trains waiting at platforms for 30-50 minutes waiting for an ambulift or suchlike.

If I could swap jobs with the OP, I would jump at the chance.

[Chris the Robot]

Personally, I think the country is heading for a recession, the increase in mortgage rates will hit people hard and given how much of the economy is based on consumer spending, I think the economy is vulnerable.

If a franchised Train Operating Company goes into administration then the DfT takes over and runs it, with an airline there's no such guarantee. I don't know if BALPA actively work to find positions in other companies for redundant pilots but I'm fairly certain ASLEF did when DB Cargo let a load of freight drivers go several years back.

[SWBKCB]

I was recently on a train where the next driver was late, (or called out to cover illness), but that was a one-off in all the many years that I have used trains. I have never seen airline type delays on trains, nor ever seen trains waiting at platforms for 30-50 minutes waiting for an ambulift or suchlike.

You lucky b*stard. For me trains arriving on time is more like 50/50....

None of the aircraft I've been on have stopped suddenly in the middle of nowhere for hours on end with nobody knowing whats going on. No standing for hours on end, either :ok:

[Bradley Hardacre]

stable roster beats whatever you're flying, driving, maintaining or administering and if you can avoid time zone changes you'll be even happier.

[Chris the Robot]

I'm aware that some airlines are very seniority-based when it comes to rostering, however there are those with fixed rosters which are presumably more predictable. That being said, I've seen quite a few posters on here express the view that the airlines with fixed rosters aren't sustainable when it comes to work-life balance. I presume there's also factors such as how far you can be moved either way from your booked start and finish times and how strong your local BALPA reps are when it comes to encouraging the company to uphold rostering agreements?

One thing which surprises me is that BALPA doesn't seem to control voluntary overtime. Pretty much all train driving voluntary overtime is dependent on an ASLEF sanction allowing it being in place, working a rest day without a sanction in place is viewed in the same league as crossing a picket line. The most recently signed rest-day working agreement means that the drivers at the company concerned earn a similar amount to that which a Jet2 captain does when working a day off.

[BraceBrace]

Each night I get to go home, see my wife, attend parties (most of the time)...
Please, somebody… put me off flying!

Happy wife, happy life.

As a married man I would have long talks about how the wife sees a life without her husband at home. If she’s not well informed and hesitates to take on the challenge, don’t even try. It’s a guaranteed divorce. If she’s all in and backing you up... you _might_ avoid divorce.

[Uplinker]

Bracebrace is right.

You might enjoy flying into New York or the Maldives initially - even just for a 22 hour "bullet". Or flying to Malaga, Alicante, Sharm El Sheik or Larnaca and back every day.

But your wife and family will only notice your absence, You will get home, sleep all morning, cut the grass, have an evening at home while ironing your shirts and packing ready for the next trip, or going to bed at 1900 trying to sleep ready to wake up at 0300 the next morning.

At the very least you will miss your children growing up and learning to ride their bikes etc.

[HypoxicWaiter]

Trainee train driver ( ex guard, internal hire ) checking in here at the age of 31.

For the benefit of the OP, I passed the ATPL theory ( distance learning with Caledonian ) this year alongside the train driving theory so to do it as a fully qualified driver with experience should be achievable!

I'm taking on the wise words of rudestuff and others on this forum, paying as I go. Single Engine CBIR > SE CPL and then see what the job market is like!

We and others may be starting later than others but we can look back in 30 years and maybe take pride in the fact we experienced other industries :O

As ex long haul cabin crew I actually find the shift work at my particular rail depot as fatiguing as the flying. We finished at 1am Sunday morning, had Sunday day off and then in at 4am this morning.

I'd regret not going for it and there's nothing wrong with personal development and a backup plan.

[BBK]

I'm in a somewhat similar situation and had the same trouble trying to decide if this was a path I wanted to go down.

In the end I decided to go for it, I'd rather finish all the training and never get a job that to never have done it and always be thinking what if. I could always go back to my old career.

Also don't forget that pprune tends to paint a broadly negative picture of the job and the industry. if you loved your job and we're happy, why would you come on a forum to tell everyone about it? Much more likely to happen with someone who isn't having a positive experience.

Do it. Go modular, get a class 1 medical and your PPL as a starting point. Getting that far may even just "scratch the itch".
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I’d go with Mrguy. Let me explain. If you don’t go for it you’ll never know whether it was the right decision. The people telling you not to are giving advice based on their opinion. If it’s their experience and they regret going into aviation then clearly they made a mistake. Nothing wrong with that but equally most pilots I know fly until they have to retire and they “enjoy” the job. Ok maybe not the politics, lack of control of your roster, jet lag, reduction in terms and conditions etc but the satisfaction in operating an airliner.

Pilots are whingers, me included, but a lot of us wouldn’t want to do anything else. One question you need to ask yourself is do you really enjoy flying. I mean really enjoy the art of flying and doing the good old pilot sh*t. If you don’t then maybe you will end up disillusioned as some of the posters obviously are. Whatever you decide I wish you good luck in your decision! A trainer once said to me “get the biggest, shiniest type rating as early as you can”. You can always downgrade if it doesn’t suit you.

ps
Go modular, NEVER, not ever, pay large sums up front!!

[onionabroad]

Bracebrace is right.

You might enjoy flying into New York or the Maldives initially - even just for a 22 hour "bullet". Or flying to Malaga, Alicante, Sharm El Sheik or Larnaca and back every day.

But your wife and family will only notice your absence, You will get home, sleep all morning, cut the grass, have an evening at home while ironing your shirts and packing ready for the next trip, or going to bed at 1900 trying to sleep ready to wake up at 0300 the next morning.

At the very least you will miss your children growing up and learning to ride their bikes etc.
This is the thing that's in the back of my head for this. Personally, I've wanted to fly for ages but only recently realised I could actually do it.... however I have a good paying steady IT job.... Would love to jump into a short hall pilot career however, even though I'm not gone for days at a time, I'd still instantly lose all weekends/holidays/family events.... I'd like to think I could deal with it for the first 5 years before things get better, but that will basically be my kids developmental years. As we all say though, its a choice of the known mundane stability or potentially doing what I want at the expense of family time.

Probably the best counter to that is Mrguy...which is something I've thought about doing anyway... go for the training and then see how things develop as I go on. Sure there's potential of lost money but at least it's an attempt.

Ah wish this had come up in my much younger single days!!!

[Uplinker]

Yes, for sure, do a PPL, and maybe one of those Simulator rides you see advertised to experience flying a 'real' jet airliner. And of course, get your Class One medical before doing anything else.

For what it's worth, I changed career into flying at age 35. I had left my previous career and was working freelance in the same industry.

I started flying training thinking that if at any stage, I wasn't good enough, or didn't pass the exams or tests, I could continue working freelance in my previous career.

So, it was not super high-risk for me, and I had saved up enough to pay for my training, (nothing like the amount it costs today), and was able to pay the mortgage and house bills while I was full-time flight training. As it happened, I passed all the exams and tests - and I then got an airline job on a very basic old 19 seat turbo prop, flying post and parcels at night, and worked up from there.

So, it is possible. But, I did miss my children growing up and then divorce happened. So by all means go for it, but your family must be 100% behind it and you must all understand how much of you; your money, your time, your weekends, Christmases, and birthdays, it is going to hoover up. Your family will become your wife and children, with you being a visitor, occasionally present.

I vividly remember our No. 1 telling us once that her 9 year old son burst into tears early on Christmas morning when he saw her in uniform - realising that yet again, Mummy would not be at home on Christmas day. (And don't assume that you can take Christmas day - or any day over Christmas - off). Not a chance !

[onionabroad]

I vividly remember our No. 1 telling us once that her 9 year old son burst into tears early on Christmas morning when he saw her in uniform - realising that yet again, Mummy would not be at home on Christmas day. (And don't assume that you can take Christmas day - or any day over Christmas - off). Not a chance !

oooo that last bit pretty much tells me what I need to hear. At 43 and already family life established I can't say I have a dream of air transport that's strong enough to deal with that quote, albeit I guess other posters have different thresholds.

I've already had medical and currently hour building but I think my personal reality will be get a CPL (and maybe FI) just for the learning and then fly for fun!

Ah hopefully the OP is in a better position to chase the dream!

[Bergerie1]

I was very lucky to learn to fly in 1959 and then to join a longhaul airline in 1962. Looking back, it was a marvellous time to do the job. I loved my flying and being able to travel the world before the days of mass travel. But it does have its downsides, the main one being missing seeing your family growing up while being 'the visitor'. I remember, one day, my daughter, aged around five, asking. "Daddy, are you coming to stay with us?" That hurt to the quick.

I don't know what the life is like today but I was lucky both to do it back then and, later, to become an instructor and flight manager. Therefore I had a more balanced routine than most.

My advice, for what it is worth, is to go for it but be aware of the downsides and make sure your family know this and are willing to accept it all.

Good luck

[Uplinker]

Sadly, that world has long, very long, gone Bergerie1 !

Nowadays, the airline owns you, and I am not joking.

[Bergerie1]

Uplinker, Sadly, you are absolutely right. I know I was very lucky indeed and it has greatly saddened me to see how much the world of airline flying has deteriorated.

[Uplinker]

The unions are far too weak. Nobody wants to take any action to improve - or even preserve - Ts & Cs.

My fellow pilots were not interested when I asked why we had to fly on Christmas Day or the Christmas period.

[mavisbacon]

Years ago I worked with a bloke who'd left train driving behind and went into the airlines. All he ever did was moan about how he could have been driving for euros tar!