View Full Version : Air France 291 nose cone damage
exBng Pilot
28th May 2023, 21:59
AF291 turn back after weather radar and airspeed problems. Nose cone looks like it's been compressed. I can't post links/photos as I don't have 8 posts yet.
I'd be interested to know how this happens.
phil@LFPG
1st Jun 2023, 23:13
you might have better chance if you posted in the japan section.
Alice Kiwican
1st Jun 2023, 23:40
AF291 turn back after weather radar and airspeed problems. Nose cone looks like it's been compressed. I can't post links/photos as I don't have 8 posts yet.
I'd be interested to know how this happens.
Birdstrike I believe
dctPub
2nd Jun 2023, 04:18
Unreliable airspeed in the 350 is a piece of piss and basically ops normal.
Pinky the pilot
2nd Jun 2023, 07:03
It was reported in the Japanese Media as being a birdstrike.
ampclamp
2nd Jun 2023, 08:09
This will likely be locked or removed soon, but looking at the photo on the Av herald site, there seems to be an absence of left over bird on the radome. No blood, feathers or anything you would see even after your average bird strike that I can see. And that radome is utterly wrecked.
Talk of it imploding with diff P and can see why people think that looking at the damage.
Certainly interesting whatever it was.
MechEngr
2nd Jun 2023, 09:59
It's in one of the highest total pressure locations on the aircraft - perhaps the radome was destabilized by a small bird strike and it progressively collapsed from the oncoming air pressure, with the damage progressing as the area of stagnation increased. The force goes up with the square of the diameter but the resistance at the perimeter goes up linearly by rougth 2Pi. So, perhaps bird strike followed by delta-P.
Maybe it was just an unlucky strike right on the center.
I like the "minor service," as it's probable the weather radar was also damaged.
atakacs
2nd Jun 2023, 10:12
To illustrate the matter.
They were 3h in flight at FL35. Bird strike it ain't.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/608x947/fxpk4nswiaehjtd_7d852198bf628b570a1b05a7a5d3ce84e02738c6.jpg
AF A350
tossbag
2nd Jun 2023, 10:32
Please don't lock or move this until 43Inches lets us know what happened.
jolihokistix
2nd Jun 2023, 11:02
No blood or feathers means... frozen chicken.
No, but seriously, I just had a quick read around the Japanese press and the only suggestion (by one of their consulting experts) was as Pinky says above, a bird strike. They did recall the 'salmon strike' over Alaska some years ago, probably dropped by a surprised sea eagle.
One of the passengers interviewed said there was no unusual discernable noise, just the sudden announcement that they were turning back.
Capt Fathom
2nd Jun 2023, 11:49
That is no bird strike.
More than likely a structural failure of the radome.
Union Jack
2nd Jun 2023, 14:58
To illustrate the matter.
They were 3h in flight at FL35. Bird strike it ain't.
AF A350
FL25 you say? It must have been the "Kerii Kerii bird":rolleyes:
Jack
They were 3h in flight at FL35. Bird strike it ain'tSome birds share the airspace in the flight levels, highest recorded strike was with a Riippell’s Griffon vulture over Abijan, Ivory Coast, western Africa 29 November 1973.at FL370, took out an engine.
Then there was this at FL400 in the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0foHizWAmQ
ampclamp
3rd Jun 2023, 01:47
MechEngr, yes I think you can see a rough semi circular outline of the plate antenna on the right hand side of centre adjacent to the the holes at approx 12 and 3 o'clock positions.
43Inches
3rd Jun 2023, 04:17
Please don't lock or move this until 43Inches lets us know what happened.
For the record, I have no idea what happened. Although it sorta looks like a blimp that went too fast...
jolihokistix
3rd Jun 2023, 05:32
Air France Airbus A350 collides with birds on takeoff: nose and radar destroyed - ladepeche.fr (https://www.ladepeche.fr/2023/05/28/un-airbus-a350-dair-france-percute-des-oiseaux-aux-decollages-le-nez-et-le-radar-detruits-11225729.php#)
They report here that it was plural 'birds', and 'on take-off'. (Once you get past the cookie and language obstacle course.)
From aviation safetyAir France flight AF291, an Airbus A350-941, suffered damage to the nose radome and pitot tubes, and returned to Osaka-Kansai (KIX).
The flight took off from KIX at 02:15 UTC (11:15 LT), bound for Paris-CDG Airport. About 02:50 UTC, the Airbus got troubled on the weather radar and air speed indication while at a cruising altitude of FL350. At 03:10, the flight turned back to KIX. Forty minutes later the flight declared an emergency.
A safe landing was made back at KIX at 05:25 UTC. The runway 24R was closed for 50 minutes for inspection, causing 11 other flights to be affected. No injuries were reported among 324 occupantsIf the bird strike was on take off might seem odd for the airspeed to suddenly play up when at FL350. The source is compiled from unofficial media which could explain a lot.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/859x487/jap_b2b4199e7ae9eafb1a5f1f11d01c7983506344fb.png
tossbag
3rd Jun 2023, 08:52
For the record, I have no idea what happened.
I'm lost for words...................:ooh:
MechEngr
3rd Jun 2023, 16:11
From aviation safetyIf the bird strike was on take off might seem odd for the airspeed to suddenly play up when at FL350. The source is compiled from unofficial media which could explain a lot.
It might be that the radome gradually collapsed and it was a while until there was enough difference in the disturbance of the airflow from right to left for the software to complain. There should be some acceptance of a small difference between the two. If the asymmetry of the collapse is enough that acceptance might be exceeded.
Or maybe it hit one of the UFOs that have been in the news?