Pilatus/Britten-Norman aeroplanes

[ricketyback]

First up, apologies for the long post. Rummaging through some old aviation magazines and notes the other day and found this really humorous article from a 'Flight International' publication. I assume it was written by a British author due the brilliant humour.

Undaunted by aerodynamic realities, the design team at Pilatus/Britten-Norman has announced plans for the BN2-XL, promising more noise, reduced payload, a lower cruise speed, and increased pilot workload.
We spoke to Mr. Fred Gribble, former British Rail boilermaker and now Chief Project Engineer. Fred was responsible for developing many original and creative design flaws in the service of his former employer,and will be incorporating these in the new BN2-XL technology under a design agreement.
Fred reassured BN-2 pilots however that all fundamental design flaws of the original model had been retained. Further good news is that the XL version is available as a retrofit.

Among the new measures is that of locking the ailerons in the central position, following airborne and simulator tests which showed that whilst pilots of average strength were able to achieve up to 30 degrees of control wheel deflection, this produced no appreciable variation in the net flight path of the aircraft. Thus the removal of costly and unnecessary linkages has been possible, and the rudder has been nominated as the primary directional control. In keeping with this new philosophy, but to retain commonality for crews transitioning to the XL, additional resistance to foot pressure has been built into the foot pedals to prevent overcontrolling in gusty conditions (defined as those in which wind velocity exceeds 3 knots). An outstanding feature of Islander technology has always been the adaption of the 0-540 engine, which mounted in any other aircraft in the free world is known for its low vibration levels, so as to cause it to shake and batter the airframe, gradually crystallsing the main spar, desynchronising the accompanying engine, and simulate the sound of fifty skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin.
However design documents clandestinely recovered from the Britton-Norman shredder have solved a question that has puzzled aerodynamicists and pilots for many, disclosing that is actually noise which causes the BN-2 to fly. The vibration set up by the airframe, in turn causes the air molecules above the wing to oscillate at atomic frequency, reducing their density and causing lift. Noise said Fred causes the lift - look how much noise the Concorde makes and how fast it goes.

I'll stop here as the article is extensive and would take me about another hour (or two) to type.

[Jump Complete]

An old one, but amusing to those of us familiar with BN flying qualities. (Some 2000 hours in Islanders and Trislanders.)
A tad unfair, though. Heavy the controls may be (I used to feel like I’d had a heavy gym workout after a gusty day flying the Trislander) but the aircraft will fly you through hell and back.

[Herod]

Jump Complete. I agree with you regarding the Trislander. I've only got some 500 hours on it, and it was a long time ago. However, it was during the Scottish oil-boom. Various Shetland airfields. An unfairly maligned aeroplane in some quarters. Having said that, the original post was good-humoured.

[70 Mustang]

on occasion, the “market” makes some good decisions?

[Imagegear]

I flew a few times out of Wings Field, North Philly to Philly International. (at that time it was just one old terminal at the opposite side of the runway).

Went to "board" with the family, well, walked up the semi-ladder and into the Tri-lander. It was like being measured for a coffin. The wife was seriously scared and the kids loved it. Then it was bump, rattle, our way down to Philly following the "Surekill" expressway before landing at Philly. What an experience, every time something new, lost the mid-engine once, but we knew nothing, the thing just kept flying. Better than the old Tristar which followed for sheer thrills.

IG

[Herod]

The one drawback of the Trislander was its range. Aberdeen to Cork for example. With no toilet facilities, it was known as the Britten-Norman Bladderbuster. :{

[Sygyzy]

Imagegear

I delivered one of the Trislanders to Wings Field (if there was more than one) in 1982. I picked it up at Seletar in Singapore and delivered it about two weeks later via Philly International. I came west about. I considered going east, through Japan, but the longest leg was Honolulu - San Fransisco, and at over 2100nm it simply didn't have the legs, together with other long legs to small islands in the Pacific. This was with five 45 gall drums instead of the seats - they were on top of the tanks. It was winter time when there was unusually heavy snow in UK that winter. There was a major snag with the a/c. As it had over 10(?) seats it needed auto-feather fitted for US requirements. When I first got to the a/c the auto-feather system was a mess with any or all engines auto-feathering above 1500rpm! The auto-feather was disconnected and the UK CAA allowed one flight to Bembridge (Britten/Norman) UK to fix it. Except Bembridge (and other places in UK) were snowbound. With creative reading it was (I) decided that this one flight was all the way to Wings Field. This was over the Christmas period so nobody was in their office. Longest leg on this route was Reyjavik - Goose Bay.
I remember I was met by (possibly) the chief pilot (chap with a moustache) at Philly International who proceeded to tell me how to fly the Trislander in a crosswind - as there was a strong crosswind at Wings field. He was a true SkyGahd and I lapped up every word...

S

[XP-72]

Always worried me about who would check the oil on the third engine on a cold wet & windy night?

[Imagegear]

Sygyzy,

There was only one Wings Field in Philly in 1984, in Bluebell, PA.

I was working at the Sperry Design Center, just round the corner. I got to go home twice a year. (Cape Town). The Wings Field departure was the the start of a very long ride home. The main problem was for a family of four, we were quite baggage limited from the start.

XP-72

That third engine was always a problem. The number of times we arrived to fly to find all the covers off, and mechanics swarming around it like flies.

IG

[Eutychus]

As SLF, I miss Aurigny's 'Joeys' from and to the Channel Islands.

I am sure the fold-down seats were repurposed from a Renault 4.

It was always a bit disconcerting to find a beginner's guide to the aircraft controls on the rear of the flight safety card, the expectation apparently being that one would climb over the seats and take over if the (single) pilot became incapacitated.

On the other hand, if you were near the front it gave you a grandstand view of all the pilot could (or, more often than not given CI fog, could not) see.

Possibly my last flight on one was supposed to have been Guernsey-Jersey-Dinard; I was the only passenger doing Guernsey-Dinard. When I arrived at Guernsey airport I was told the flight had been cancelled because Jersey was (of course) fogbound, but the airline told me to hang around the airport for a bit. About ten minutes later they paged me and said "it's your lucky day, someone in Dinard has chartered a plane and since we can't get one out from Jersey we're sending one from here and you can just hop in the back". I duly loaded myself and my luggage (I don't even recall passing any form of border control). The pilot looked back along the looong row of seats, raised his eyebrows at his sole passenger, and said "spread yourself around a bit".

[listria]

Kiribati was a stopping point for Antipodeans on the way to bigger things. They were a great crowd. A few incidents spring to mind...the trislander ferry back from Fiji where they were planning to ditch as the half way beacon hadn't been turned on...local pilot climbed in back to get his passport.(clouds cleared in the nick of time)
Aussie guy going back to hanger with inadequate power having failed to notice the third engine hadn't been turned on.
The usual trick where the pilot sat with the passengers and said that if the pilot didn't show up soon he would fly the plane himself.
​​​​​...and those Renault 4 doors

[JW411]

I always liked the Trislander's nickname - "The Belgian DC-10".

[Herod]

"The best thing to ever come out of the Shetlands: an Aberdeen-bound Trislander" Standing by for flak.

[Hartington]

My first thought, when reading the original quote, was Uncle Roger in the "Straight and Level" column at the back of Flight every week. But it seems too long.

[treadigraph]

Uncle Roger AKA (mostly) Mike Ramsden, or Mike Gaines or possibly Cliff Barnet would be my guess.

[Bill Macgillivray]

BN2 Defender (islander) in the Oman desert end of last century was a dependable workhorse in trying conditions. Not the most agile of aircraft, I would agree, but always managed to do what was required with a bit of forethought and "brute" strength! Fond memories!

[Asturias56]

And they give sterling service with FIGAS

[2Planks]

Asturias, indeed as well as surviving the 4 legged self loading freight which was common when I was down there!

The delights of flight schedules by public radio, oh and the darts!

[Asturias56]

We were down there just pre covid - waiting for a flight back to Stanley from the northern islands - the plane arrived from MPL and two blokes got out and unloaded a plane load of kit. This was then ferried across to the next island - where the strip was "challenging" according to the pilot - in several goes. We lent a hand of course - once it was all done we had our trip to Stanley, dropping off one of the construction guys at MPL on the way back.

It makes me smile- people go on about the need for a basic aircraft without bells and whistles (bring back the C-47!) - and when someone builds one that is reasonably successful they complain they want something more sophisticated................

[Herod]

Not many aircraft can land on the beach at Barra.

[70 Mustang]

A Twin Otter with tundra tires?
Oops....tyres?


Not many aircraft can land on the beach at Barra.

[Jump Complete]

It makes me smile- people go on about the need for a basic aircraft without bells and whistles (bring back the C-47!) - and when someone builds one that is reasonably successful they complain they want something more sophisticated................

Same with cars, want a simple car.. with electric windows, climate control, cruise control, lane assist..

[DuncanDoenitz]

A Twin Otter with tundra tires?
Oops....tyres?
Standard footwear on the Barra Twotter actually, no requirement for the hi-float option.

And many aircraft types are able to land at Barra. Subsequent departure, however, and counter-corrosion, can be a little more challenging; Shorts 360 being an example.

[Herod]

I said not many; there are a few. I flew Logibear's Twotter as well, more years ago than I care to remember. But this is a Britten-Norman thread.

[condor17]

H , Believe Logibairs 'Tris took Shetland ponies from Shetlan' to Bergen back in the day ..

Island Pilot by Capt Alan Whitfield . Kea publishing ISBN-13:9780951895887

rgds condor

[Akrotiri bad boy]

I rode front seat shotgun on an Islander from Grenada to Carriacou and back. The pax load was just myself and Mrs Akro along with a local govt official transporting ballot boxes over to Lauriston airport. On the return flight the driver asked me to hold his clipboard in the windshield to prevent being dazzled by the lowering sun. We pulled up on the tarmac next to a Virgin Airlines B747 whose crew gazed down from the flight deck with envy at our little yellow bird of paradise.

[Herod]

Thanks condor17. I knew Alan a little. He was Base Captain Sumburgh, and we used to spend a lot of time there. Amazon are asking £ 30 for a copy. Waterstones is a more believable £ 13.95, but out of stock.

[POBJOY]

What the Islander needed was two skin windows to keep the noise down. It was an airborne Transit truck and my Granny could fly it.
Problem comes when the routes get longer (with associated flight time) and you need something properly deiced and heated. However the name is the clue :-
ISLANDER not intercontinental speed junkie.

[condor17]

H , 1st edition by Shetland Time ISBN 1 898852 05 7 .
Sadly took 16yrs to get to Highland Division , but thoroughly enjoyed my 4yrs ; following in Alan's footprints . 'Tho only once got to try an Islander between BVI and San Juan .

rgds condor.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Thanks condor17. I knew Alan a little. He was Base Captain Sumburgh, and we used to spend a lot of time there. Amazon are asking £ 30 for a copy. Waterstones is a more believable £ 13.95, but out of stock.
An Air Anglia DC3 performed the very first Shell Oil Rig Crew change at Sumburgh sometime in 1971; I can't remember the date for sure but as Air Anglia's one and only Operations Officer I went along for the ride from Aberdeen. I remember a group photograph of us standing by the Dak at Sumburgh being taken by a Shell Publicity photographer (Oh to have a copy of that snap!). Anyway a couple of months later I bummed a lift on a Dak up to Sumburgh, hired a car and spent a night in a delightful farmhouse B+B by a lochside not far from Sumburgh. That evening I met Alan Whitfield at the Sumburgh Hotel and he mentioned that he was flying up to Unst the following morning and would I like to come along for the ride ? Enough said - there followed a most fantastic flight in the Islander at low level over crystal clear seas, skirting cliffs, flying up lonely valleys, Alan keeping an eye open for potential landing strips as we progressed. We flew over the strip at Tingwall, which I think had recently or was about to open and finally arrived at Unst a very bleak place indeed. What a privilige, just the two of us - there and back. Never forgotten.

[chevvron]

Flew from Sumburgh in '72 but although Alan Whitfield was the boss, I went with his No 2, a guy called Peter. Did 2 trips, once across to Foula and then the 'round the island' schedule.
The grass strip at Tingwall, Lerwick was later suprseded by a tarmac strip and we also took in Unst (which didn't have a control tower or terminal at the time), Whalsay and Fetlar, as you say, flying below the hilltops. We dropped off one pax at Lerwick and picked up another at Unst.

[Asturias56]

Shell Oil Rig Crew change at Sumburgh - see https://atchistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/egpb-7-1-93-air-atlanrique-fleet-at-sumburgh-after-braer-disaster.jpg

[dixi188]

Not forgetting the Trislander that did a wheels up landing at Southend having bounced off the North Sea and lost a leg.

[stevef]

Outer Skerries and the 'back-door' way to the Fair Isle strip were always interesting experiences in a BN2. All a routine day's work for the jovial Tingwall crew.

[Herod]

dixi188. Have you a date for that incident? A colleague was well known for flying low enough to get wave-lift off the sea. That's less than half a wingspan I believe. Years later I spoke to someone who was offered a lift from Aberdeen to Norwich. He said they had to climb to cross the Norfolk coast!!

[treadigraph]

Herod, 2/9/86 - this one (https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19860902-0)...

[chevvron]

dixi188. Have you a date for that incident? A colleague was well known for flying low enough to get wave-lift off the sea. That's less than half a wingspan I believe. Years later I spoke to someone who was offered a lift from Aberdeen to Norwich. He said they had to climb to cross the Norfolk coast!!
Works both ways; on my way to Sumburgh after we departed Wick, we descended after we crossed the coast (but that was in a Viscount!) and stayed that way across Scapa Flow at '500ft' (I'm not telling) then climbed to get into Kirkwall!

[treadigraph]

Came back from the Scillies in an S-61N - 500ft all the way, round the cliffs between Lamorna and Mousehole - absolutely gorgeous day, perfect vis.

[Herod]

Thanks treadigraph. Not who I was thinking of.

[DaveReidUK]

'Tho only once got to try an Islander between BVI and San Juan

Coincidentally, my only ride in an Islander was also in one of Air BVI's. During an unsuccessful campaign to sell them 330's (it needed several visits :O), the question came up of how it would perform in and out of Virgin Gorda. "How long is the runway there?", we enquired (there being no such thing as a BVI AIP). "No idea - but the Islander has no problem there" was the reply.

So we jumped in an Islander with the airline's CP in front and hopped over there (interesting approach over the hill!). Being as the runway was a bit too long for our tape measure, we commandeered a truck and timed a few passes at a constant speed and did the sums.

Needless to say it was far too short. :O

[treadigraph]

Ah, the days before Google Earth!

[dixi188]

dixi188. Have you a date for that incident? A colleague was well known for flying low enough to get wave-lift off the sea. That's less than half a wingspan I believe. Years later I spoke to someone who was offered a lift from Aberdeen to Norwich. He said they had to climb to cross the Norfolk coast!!

The story related to me was as follows.
The single pilot operation was a newspaper flight SEN-AMS-SEN. The pilot fell asleep and the aircraft descended and bounced off the sea losing one undercarriage leg. The pilot awoke and flew on to make an emergency landing at STN.
IIRC the pilot later flew the F27 for Channex.
Just found this but can't post a link. G-BCCU 1st September 1986. AAIB report 10/86
Dixi.

Just seen Treadigraph has posted the link.

[old,not bold]

My memory of the BN2A Islander was a recommendation in the conclusion of a report of its evaluation by Abu Dhabi Defence Force which said that in the event of engine failure, due to overheating of the remaining engine at max continuous power (needed to maintain altitude) the aircraft should be landed within a few minutes on the first available suitable piece of desert. This applied at any OAT or payload. I think the evaluation was on the Defender version. However, the Gulf Air fleet operated satisfactorily under normal civil rules in the '70s. I don't remember any engine failures, but that doesn't mean there weren't any....

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/755x502/screenshot_2023_06_01_at_19_42_55_ag06944_transportphotos_co m_fb12a075b6f9c29e904c2f154c3b87cdb9c15866.png

[POBJOY]

My memory of the BN2A Islander was a recommendation in the conclusion of a report of its evaluation by Abu Dhabi Defence Force which said that in the event of engine failure, due to overheating of the remaining engine at max continuous power (needed to maintain altitude) the aircraft should be landed within a few minutes on the first available suitable piece of desert. This applied at any OAT or payload. I think the evaluation was on the Defender version. However, the Gulf Air fleet operated satisfactorily under normal civil rules in the '70s. I don't remember any engine failures, but that doesn't mean there weren't any....
Even in the UK a standard BN2B could struggle to pass its single engine climb test at max weight. It needed the extra bit of flap setting to clear it to 6600. Fine in cool air and no turbulence but at low level with moderate gusts the VSI seemed glued to zero or below. Although it looked like a Transit truck its performance at max weight on one was marginal which was not surprising, and the line jockeys doing base and IR tests were used to it being empty during training. Prob less of an issue up north with Loganair because of the lower air temps. Having said all that the basic lycoming 540 was reliable.

[dixi188]

I remember being observer on quite a few C of A renewal air tests in the 1970s and 80s. An Islander ballasted to Max TO weight would loose a couple of hundred feet in the 5 min. single engine climb but still meet the performance graph. Probably started at about 6000ft.

[stevef]

If I remember rightly, the tip-tanked Islanders gained another 20 feet per minute on a single-engined climb due to the extended wingspan. It's not exactly a slippery aerofoil with all its upper surface 'scab' access panels.

[POBJOY]

As I remember the original design intended to use two 180 HP engines. In practice the product that we ended up with was a sturdy practical machine that could move 9 pax for short distances (with bags). However when selling an aircraft the bean counters need to be convinced of payload, and hence the 'squeezing' starts to get it through the performance system. With the Islander you need an up to date weight report and use the WAT info in the flight manual. Armed thus you can then tell 'ops' how much load can be taken, remembering that the 'performance' will have been undertaken in perfect conditions by an experienced TP. If the weather is c..p then you can make a Pilots decision to ensure it will climb on one.

[Asturias56]

Yes - weighing passengers before takeoff seems to have been a necessity - or shall we say a very wise precaution..

[Herod]

IIRC, at least in the mid-70s, the CAA required pax to be weighed on aircraft with less than 12 seats. The Tri was allowed to use standard weights.

[POBJOY]

IIRC, at least in the mid-70s, the CAA required pax to be weighed on aircraft with less than 12 seats. The Tri was allowed to use standard weights.

Another factor that has to be taken into account was the 'runway' or to be more precise if it was grass how wet or soft it was. No real performance figs for this so one started with a low load and went from there. Ops hated this but it kept us as safe as it could be, and out of the hedge.

[Asturias56]

IIRC, at least in the mid-70s, the CAA required pax to be weighed on aircraft with less than 12 seats. The Tri was allowed to use standard weights.

We were on a Tri charter out of Southampton with Aurigny in the late 80's and we were all weighed and organised by size - but I guess the reason may have been there were a lot of kids so it was balance rather than load that concerned them

[dixi188]

It was amazing how heavy some lady's handbags were when they got on the scales.

[ORAC]

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/25million-deal-will-see-10-new-islander-aircraft-built-at-bembridge/

$25 MILLION DEAL WILL SEE 10 NEW ISLANDER AIRCRAFT BUILT AT BEMBRIDGE

Australian Air Charter Operator Torres Strait Air has indicated that it will order 10 new Islander aircraft from Britten Norman as part of a 5-year fleet renewal programme valued at $25million – and the aircraft will be built here on the Isle of Wight.

Torres Strait Air’s fleet of 7 existing Britten-Norman Islanders form the backbone of the local community and its economy, operating vital sub-regional air transport services across Torres Strait and Cape York Peninsula.

The 10 new aircraft will be amongst the 1st to be produced from the UK manufacturer’s new production line at Bembridge Airport. In June, Britten-Norman announced the repatriation and onshoring of its entire production line of new aircraft to Bembridge, as previously reported by Island Echo (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/back-to-bembridge-britten-norman-to-bring-islander-home-after-mega-investment/).

It was also reported last month (https://www.islandecho.co.uk/spirit-air-india-to-acquire-6-new-bn2t-4s-britten-norman-islander-aircraft/) that Spirit Air India have ordered 6 Islanders, also to be built at Bembridge. It means a minimum of 16 Islanders are due to be built at Bembridge in the near future, with final assembly taking place at Lee-on-Solent…….

The forthcoming Islander models boast a range of upgrades, including full IFR glass cockpit technology, window seating for all passengers, enlarged and improved baggage access, and a higher All Up Mass compared to their earlier counterparts.

[India Four Two]

and a higher All Up Mass compared to their earlier counterparts.

​​​​​​​How are they going to manage that? New engines?

[ORAC]

How are they going to manage that? New engines?


https://britten-norman.com/britten-norman-products/islander/

“The aircraft can be equipped with a variety of engine configurations including Lycoming 260hp normally aspirated piston and 300hp fuel injected piston and Rolls Royce 320hp or 400hp turboprop.”

BN2T-4S - RR Turbine:

MTOW: 8500lb (3855kg)

MLW: 8500lb (3855kg)

MZFW: 8300lb (3764kg)……

[Herod]

So there is some good news today. British aircraft being built again.

[stevef]

I trust they've redesigned the elevator trim rod attachment by now. The Service Bulletins on that came out before the Magna Carta...

[ViscountFan]

I flew in them a few times between Jersey and Alderney back in the 1970s. As far as I can recall, passengers weren't weighed, although the pilot did tell people where to sit. Strange how the one sitting next to him was always an attractive female with a short skirt, and good legs. Unfortunately, I didn't qualify under any of these criteria!

[70 Mustang]

Indicates great perception, good health, quick thinking, and excellent situational awareness!

Vital requirements in pilots of such 'marginal' aircraft!

😀

[Herod]

My Trislander time was on the oil patch in Scotland. Regular Aberdeen-Sumburgh/Unst. The only occupant of the RHS would have been an oily bear.

[Self loading bear]

My Trislander time was on the oil patch in Scotland. Regular Aberdeen-Sumburgh/Unst. The only occupant of the RHS would have been an oily bear.

What’s wrong with bears?

[sycamore]

Hairy legs and long toenails.....

[happybiker]

Hairy legs and long toenails.....

Often found in Crawley Nightclubs:E

[TCAS FAN]

I flew in them a few times between Jersey and Alderney back in the 1970s. As far as I can recall, passengers weren't weighed, although the pilot did tell people where to sit. Strange how the one sitting next to him was always an attractive female with a short skirt, and good legs. Unfortunately, I didn't qualify under any of these criteria!

I got fed up paying UK tax and left in February 1971. Prior to my departure Aurigny had started ACI/SOU/ACI with Islanders, each passenger was weighed before departure.

[stevef]

We sometimes weighed pax at Tingwall (Shetland) when there were full loads. Any baggage or freight that tipped the scales afterwards went to its destination on the next flight. Foula, Fair Isle and Outer Skerries dwellers often turned up with 'miscellaneous' items well over their personal limit but it wasn't a problem if there were empty seats.
Occasional incoming flights carried a cardboard box relocating a hedgehog that was banished from Skerries for eating ground-dwelling birds' unhatched eggs (no trees in the windswept islands for nests.)

[chevvron]

We sometimes weighed pax at Tingwall (Shetland) when there were full loads. Any baggage or freight that tipped the scales afterwards went to its destination on the next flight. Foula, Fair Isle and Outer Skerries dwellers often turned up with 'miscellaneous' items well over the limit for a BN2 but it wasn't a problem if there were empty seats.
Occasional incoming flights carried a cardboard box relocating a hedgehog that was banished from Skerries for eating ground-dwelling birds' unhatched eggs (no trees in the windswept islands for nests.)
On a trip to Foula from Sumburgh with Peter, we carried one pax plus a heavy looking petrol generator mounted on wheels which was squeezed in via the centre door probably on C of G.

[stevef]

On a trip to Foula from Sumburgh with Peter, we carried one pax plus a heavy looking petrol generator mounted on wheels which was squeezed in via the centre door probably on C of G.

Sometimes freight weights from the outlying islands to Tingwall could have been written by a fiction author. I remember a (suspicious) captain asking me to check the weight of some boxes of mechanical odds and ends in the baggage bay on arrival and they were nudging double what the handlers had claimed.
The BN freight lashing rings for the seat keyhole slots were a real pain when using nets for the dedicated food supply runs. Vickers rails would have been a better solution all round.
A slightly annoying aircraft to maintain but I liked it more than efficient - but characterless - American twins.
What better aircraft for Outer Skerries!

[Asturias56]

It's the dictionary definition of a niche aircraft

[chevvron]

I did two trips with Loganair both in G-AVRA whilst I was detached to Sumburgh then years later I flew with Peter Cadbury in G-BESO a couple of times and also with Capt Mickey Munn of the Red Devils in G-AXDH. Although I didn't have a twin rating, Mickey let me fly it back to Farnborough from Duxford even down to landing it, proving it wasn't difficult to fly.

[Asturias56]

Often found in Crawley Nightclubs:E


or the old Skean Dubh Bar at Dyyce :\

[Herod]

"the old Skean Dubh Bar at Dyce". Memories, memories.

[Asturias56]

That's interesting - very few people have any memories of the Skean Dubh - especially the next morning.

Remember the days when people would come in and shout "I need a welder out at Forties tomorrow? Any takers??"