Air NZ or QLink?

[777xpilot]

Hi all,

I have received offers from both ANZ and Qlink to join them as a turbo prop first officer. Wanting some insight please. Leaning towards ANZ as I'm from New Zealand but this country is insanely boring and the cost of living has shot up. I've spent the last four years working in Australia flying around NSW.

[waterbottle]

Do you understand how progression works in ANZ? Big thread explaining it. Stick with Aus.

[grrowler]

Probably worth considering how progression works at Qlink as well…

[Massey058]

It's really a horses for courses thing which is of course an unhelpful non-answer. But it's all highly dependent on what you want from your career and what moves you are willing to make within it and geographically in life.

If your ultimate desire is to get into Air NZ then taking the offer as a turboprop FO is the way to go. There's a fair amount of hand-wringing about the current recruitment pathways which you've probably read so I won't re-hash it here. But I will say, perhaps unhelpfully, nothing in aviation is static.

​​​​​​In saying that I feel long term if you don't want to be moving around employers then Air NZ is probably not the worst place to be. Starting as a turboprop FO means you a directly employed whereas with Qantaslink you are not.

​​​​​​From an outsider perspective the industrial landscape in Australia seems pretty harsh and the future seems like it could be turbulent, whereas it's fairly straight forward in NZ and relatively stable although I'm sure some will disagree.
​​​​​
​​​​​You are right that NZ can be very boring but if you have family and friends here and want to start a family of your own then sometimes boring isn't too bad. That said I'm very keen for Auckland to grow up a bit more and become a proper city.
​​​

[Brakerider]

Probably depends on your ultimate goal. If that is Air NZ Jet, then joining as a turbo FO is probably the worse thing you can do given the debacle that is RPPP.

[ElZilcho]

If I were to have my career all over again, knowing what I know now, I probably would have gone to Australia… then again, in another 10 years I might be glad to have stayed in NZ. It’s extremely difficult to predict how a 40 year career (Air NZ vs QF) is going to turn out.

If you joined Air NZ Link today, I have no idea what your progression to Jet will be when you eventually get there, but I guarantee it won’t be the same as it is now. What the progression is from QLink to QF I couldn’t tell you, but again, I’m sure it’ll change over time.

Jobs aside, I would rather be living in Australia right now. New Zealand’s appeal has all but vanished and we’re now a country with high living costs and low wages. So with that in mind, I’d suggest QLink solely to start your career in a Country with more opportunities for a better life overall… if I were 10 years younger I’d even consider starting my career again in Australia just to get out of New Zealand. Can’t say I’m overly optimistic about the nations future during the rest of my working life.

[Bumble_Pilot]

My two cents worth. Have a think about the end goal. If aus is the dream, Qlink will hold you back.
Sounds like your best bet is take turbo NZ and then apply for JQ, VA, QF in 6/12 months and take those gigs.

[arriba]

Stay in Australia, get your citizenship in July, then go to USA

[43Inches]

With the way either airline works you are better off starting with the one you don't want to work for eventually. That is if you want to work with QF mainline, go for the AirNZ turboprop job and VV. Once you get a command on the TP and a few command hours apply for the mainline of the other company. This will also give you more of an appreciation of the culture of each and a more rounded view of who you work for, rather than a polarized single view of working for an airline, they are all different.

Also, no matter which one you go for the current industrial conditions means as soon as you have a few hours you can just jump ship to the other without any issues, or move up the chain. There is simply not enough experienced pilots to fill the lower end jobs anywhere at the moment.

[On Guard]

If you like aus qf mainline is the way to go. More growth and $. If you’re young join qlink. Joining nz will also hedge bets making it easier to get into qf and get a number on nz list as a backup??

[master_beta]

Wait till July 1st, get your citizenship then apply for your E-3 to fly a jet in the states. Apply back to Air NZ or Qantas as an external type rated candidate with whichever company you end up choosing.

[DeltaT]

Agree with the consensus, get Aus citizenship and go to USA jet

[Makiko]

Good idea to apply for Aust citizenship if you go to Qlink , but question as NZ/Aust & maybe you already have that
Are you interested in moving to mainlines
NZ: you are "guaranteed" to flow , as stated 90% of mainline pilots to come from NZlink , question how long
Aust: QF planning to recruit 200 SO per year next five years
No "guarantee" to flow , but you have a massive advantage over external applicants
1. 100% of internals get selected to do online aptitude, last couple of external hirings only 25% got to do
2. 100% of internals proceeded to interview 2022 regardless of test score , internals need at least 4/5
3. No sim for internal applicants

So whilst not "guaranteed" progression to mainline , much bigger chance than external applicant

Also QF subsidaries have just told staff (in writing) that there will be an exclusive recruitment for internal applicants in
January 2024 & the plan is to do this every year (ie: external applicants cannot apply)

So I don't know how much of a "leg up" people want but it sounds like a pretty good bet (imho)

Likely you would still have to spend a few years at Qlink before commencing at mainline

Good question that one , what is least amount of time spent at subsidary before moving to mainline

& QF group has more airlines if you prefer freight or faster promotion at JQ or something

Thinking better chance to QF mainline from outside group , true once but that's from 2000's and last century, the advantage
internals at QF have in moving to mainline just keeps getting bigger

The USA is on the other side of the world, personally I like it but a lot of Australians don't

[VHOED191006]

I would like to point out that the people who talk about choosing QF with the eventual hope of going to mainline, half are basically saying don't apply for QLink, the other half are basically saying that you should apply for QLink.....

[On Guard]

Good idea to apply for Aust citizenship if you go to Qlink , but question as NZ/Aust & maybe you already have that
Are you interested in moving to mainlines
NZ: you are "guaranteed" to flow , as stated 90% of mainline pilots to come from NZlink , question how long
Aust: QF planning to recruit 200 SO per year next five years
No "guarantee" to flow , but you have a massive advantage over external applicants
1. 100% of internals get selected to do online aptitude, last couple of external hirings only 25% got to do
2. 100% of internals proceeded to interview 2022 regardless of test score , internals need at least 4/5
3. No sim for internal applicants

So whilst not "guaranteed" progression to mainline , much bigger chance than external applicant

Also QF subsidaries have just told staff (in writing) that there will be an exclusive recruitment for internal applicants in
January 2024 & the plan is to do this every year (ie: external applicants cannot apply)

So I don't know how much of a "leg up" people want but it sounds like a pretty good bet (imho)

Likely you would still have to spend a few years at Qlink before commencing at mainline

Good question that one , what is least amount of time spent at subsidary before moving to mainline

& QF group has more airlines if you prefer freight or faster promotion at JQ or something

Thinking better chance to QF mainline from outside group , true once but that's from 2000's and last century, the advantage
internals at QF have in moving to mainline just keeps getting bigger

The USA is on the other side of the world, personally I like it but a lot of Australians don't

Reading this I’d say q link. You can try mainline and have anz as a backup. Your career at qf mainline will likely suffice anything nz can offer just due to sheer size and timing. IF you can handle your career being in Au.

[oldm8ey]

If it's a line call between the carriers then the choice between countries should make it a no brainer for you. New Zimbabwe is rapidly heading into basket case territory and the outlook is very bleak.

[Zeta_Reticuli]

If it's a line call between the carriers then the choice between countries should make it a no brainer for you. New Zimbabwe is rapidly heading into basket case territory and the outlook is very bleak.

What a fitting name for NZ. New Zealand is much further along than Australia with their Bolshevik revolution, but Australia isn't to far behind. It is pretty obvious that the West is being destroyed from within. We will all become banana republics and we will all fall. But before we fall, we shall be flooded with unskilled indians. Atleast the Chinese had some manners and skills...

[ZebraFlyer]

1. 100% of internals get selected to do online aptitude, last couple of external hirings only 25% got to do
2. 100% of internals proceeded to interview 2022 regardless of test score , internals need at least 4/5

Your statements regarding "100% of internals" are complete bollocks.

If your end goal is QF, don't go to a Qantas Group company. It's that simple.

[morno]

Agreed. If you want to work for mainline, save yourself the headache and don’t work for another group company.

[Makiko]

So if you keep repeating the "narrative" that somehow makes it true

"the Sopwith pup is a more deadly fighter than the F18" , "the Sopwith pup is a more deadly fighter than the F18"

The only internals who didn't get test/interview were those with recent training failure or other recent issue (eg: disciplinary)

Whereas for externals a quarter get a test , maybe half get required score, so only 10/15% of applicants get to interview (where you also have sim)

Why do people get so bullish on this issue when it is plain obvious that as an internal you have very significant advantage , whether that is 4 times or 6 times or ten times - well thats
another Q. Since 2016 at least half of new hires from internals

I notice no comment on "internals only" pathway to mainline , start in January 24 & to be annual thereafter - this pathway for internals only

Likely a longer wait at ANZ to get to mainline & also like QF an interview involved. How many at NZlinks above you would want to move NZmainline (you would think most)

Sure some good opportunities in USA, but would it be wise to leave a full career at your own country link/mainline to expatriate ?

It all went tits up for many who left to go to Asia/ME , unilateral changing of contracts, expats first out the door etc

At least in the US rule of law country & you get treated same as locals

But the wage data that Atlas were touting was misleading as so many Australians have found out , ($350/$450K USD for FO after 3 or 4 years) & was
based on Covid penalty rates & just isn't achievable right now

You would have to wonder how some of the Australians who left LHS at Virgin or QF group airlines would be thinking now regarding their decision

It's difficult to understand why so many , just accept the promises made by OS Airlines (whether US or ME) at face value

On the flip side for those who don't have a job offer with the "links" , well US Regional or LCC looks way way better than what is on offer in Aust/NZ

This debate about "to get to mainline join another" is very boring , so I'm out of this one

[On Guard]

If you join regional nz it will be a long wait to jets as you queue up behind many others. If you then leave you are blocked for 8 years from the main employer in nz. Joint qlink does not carry these risks and leaves air nz open to you.

[CaptainInsaneO]

If Qantas mainline is your goal, apply for Virgin. If Virgin is your goal, apply for Qlink. Crazy but true. This will remain like this until these majors work out that ghost seniority numbers is the key.

[ZebraFlyer]

The only internals who didn't get test/interview were those with recent training failure or other recent issue (eg: disciplinary)

I and a couple other colleagues without any of the above received a try again in 6 months letter. I received this email 4 days prior to my last day at JQ. We were roughly 6 - 9 years seniority (WB FO/SYD NB CP range).

Why do people get so bullish on this issue when it is plain obvious that as an internal you have very significant advantage , whether that is 4 times or 6 times or ten times - well thats
another Q. Since 2016 at least half of new hires from internals

We get so bullish because having the group dangle the QF carrot in front of your face is more an insult than an advantage. You are owned by them. They do not have to release you. They can string you along, you could lose months of seniority at their whim because they decide you are still needed.. are externals from Rex being told only 2 of them will be taken each month so as not to cannibalise the operation? I don't think so.
Not having to do a sim, I admit, is an advantage. I wouldn't hand over my metaphorical career balls to the group just to avoid a sim though. Another important point is a respective subsidiary company would require you to stay with them at least 18-24 months, by which time who knows if they can afford to release anyone internally with the haemorrhaging. Do you think no one above you at said subsidiary doesn't want to get to QF? They're apparently releasing by seniority so could be a long wait ahead.. I don't know anyone at link that doesn't want to go to QF.

I notice no comment on "internals only" pathway to mainline , start in January 24 & to be annual thereafter - this pathway for internals only

I'm not commenting because I don't have any experience with this. It was probably announced after I left. What I wrote above would still apply though - they own you.

Sure some good opportunities in USA, but would it be wise to leave a full career at your own country link/mainline to expatriate ?

It all went tits up for many who left to go to Asia/ME , unilateral changing of contracts, expats first out the door etc

At least in the US rule of law country & you get treated same as locals

But the wage data that Atlas were touting was misleading as so many Australians have found out , ($350/$450K USD for FO after 3 or 4 years) & was
based on Covid penalty rates & just isn't achievable right now

You would have to wonder how some of the Australians who left LHS at Virgin or QF group airlines would be thinking now regarding their decision

It's difficult to understand why so many , just accept the promises made by OS Airlines (whether US or ME) at face value

I don't know anyone that took the brochure at face value. If you did then that's on you. All it took was 15 minutes on airline pilot central to realise the salaries quoted were at the extreme end. If you gave up a seat in Australia without speaking to multiple sources about what life and conditions are like over here, then again, that's on you. Plenty of other E3 opportunities available. Or could even go back to Australia.. it's not like they're not hiring!

This debate about "to get to mainline join another" is very boring , so I'm out of this one

I apologise it's boring to you, but I'm trying to make sure newbies don't follow your advice as it's patently wrong. And with respect, I can see you're ex-VA, so wtf do you know :} jokes

If you wanna go to QF don't join a subsidiary.

[deadcut]

Have a read on the QF recruitment thread about the progression of internals to mainline.

People being given a start date in 2025 with no seniority number in the meanwhile.

Air NZ is the same, with internals being "preferred" but strict seniority meaning you won't get a seat for ages.

Plenty of air nz link skippers being given QF interviews though.

[Makiko]

Why would someone on a hold file be given a seniority number ?

If Qlink to mainline is done on "merit" just means those who start latest scored lowest in test/interview

Easy to blame others , talk about "its brown nosing" all some kind of a conspiracy by the company

Than accept personal responsibility for you own performance & own score

The fact that you might be starting Q4 2025 because you got really very average scores & thus ranking

Don't you think QF would have themselves covered off in this regard , to protect themselves against those who might get on the blower to Solicitor