Should you speak your mind?

[shortly]

OK moderator I will not respond 'in kind' to the childish attacks on my thoughts. I pose this general question, should you speak your mind or leave the field clear for those who completely support the AOA. My answer is obviously no. I have tried to tell the truth as I see it and de-colour some of the so blatantly biased posts. For those who care, I do not think CX is perfect, but which organisation is? Certainly not the AOA, and not any other airline that I can think of. But I enjoy working there and I particularly like the people at the company. I have great sympathy for the 49ers but little for those who instigated their dismissal, the AOA management.

[6feetunder]

Not enough sympapthy to join the union and pay a little support though.

Talk is cheap.

[411A]

Why should someone actually pay to support malcontents?:rolleyes:

[cadence]

411A, I've not been on this forum very long but I have been here long enough to know that you have too much time on your hands and typically contribute to topics you know very little about. I've also not been at CX very long but long enough to know that if you think there were only 49 malcontents at this airline then it would be typical of your attitude, i.e. commenting on something you know nothing about.

In my short time at CX I have found that if they wanted to fire all the malcontents as you call them there would probably be only 49 pilots left, not 49 pilots fired!!

You sir are a pompous git!

Which when directed at an American might even be considered a compliment!!

[shortly]

6feetunder, we've been down this track before. We each have to make decisions based on our own values. I am a strong believer in loyalty and honesty. But, the question lingers, loyal to whom? At the end of the day it can only be yourself. If you are not honest with yourself and loyal to your own intrinsic values then you can be nothing for anybody else. I have no rancour with loyal AOA supporters, I do not understand their motives and strategies (pre-49ers) but I only wish them well. I have been against the union actions for many years as I firmly believe they have only hurt the pilot body overall. A more divided work group I never have seen and these divisions have been made in collusion with poor AOA responses. This company has, on the whole, and please think laterally here, been very generous and fair for a long time. I do not know of any airline in which there is a fully supported roster system - ours is not good true - but all others have flaws. This dispute will not be resolved in any external court of law or at the behest of any external body. It can only be resolved here at home. Time for a re-think and maybe the sucking down of some humble pie. Words are cheap I agree but how can I financially support a union that is on a course of self destruction (in my opinion) and that is desperately trying to bite the hand that feeds me and my family. Just a footnote on my posting rate. Assuming each post takes three minutes to type and five minutes to scan the posts previous, then I have given a massive 23 hours in nearly four months to an issue that is most important in my work life at present. And if you check my posting times it is after duty or before duty at some very unpleasant times of day/night. Wish I could give more time to this issue.

Cadence, thank you for your inane and typical rubbish. If it is so bad here then please leave. There are plenty who would like your position.

[nudger]

*

[shortly]

Dear Nudger, my little swipe at the moderator was, of course, tongue in cheek. I actually did let a few child like comments stop me from posting for a week or so but then I grew up a bit. Sorry Nudger your opinion of me is of no relevance to this thread and of no relevance to me. As you can see these posts are at a very civilised time.

[6feetunder]

What a #@&*%!

[edited to keep this personal remark just within the bounds of acceptability to PPRuNe]

BlueEagle - Moderator.

[aussie1]

I am new to this forum, and over the past couple of weeks have been sitting on the sideline listening to you guys ( supposedly professional pilots) completely bashing eachother verbally. I can just imagine what its like, a typical day at work. Why is it that out of all of this mess, it seems CX, the actual company rarely gets mentioned during these formums?????????
It seems to me that the only enemy you guys have are eachother pilot v pilot and pilot v AOA. Quite a sad situation considering that only if you would all stop crying like a bunch of little school girls, unite as ONE and get this whole mess taken care of. Of course we need a union, but not one that is determined to destroy your career or mine. I have known CX people for most of my short life, and it is disappointing to see the disgraceful behavour shown by some of you guys. SCABS, replacement workers, spinless asses, can't you guys come up with anything better. It seems to me again that the only scabs that exsist are those WHO ACCEPTED THE UPGRADE. if the shoe fits wear it
But I suppose logic is not a term used in ones vocab there at CX. The only thing that you guys are going to accomplish with all this bitching is a majority unionless pilot workforce. Then what????
I guess the table will turn and then CX will have won and then you will have more to deal with.
:( :( :( :( :(
I have always respected cathay and its people, mainly its people. I have and would be proud to join you guys AS ONE UNITED WORKFORCE and stand the line with you, just like the other 250 new hires that will be joining the comapany. But I guess to you guys 250 less is more for the cause. What A load of crock.:confused: :confused: :confused: :mad: :mad:

[Saturn]

Hey cadence, how about a trip to America and say what you said to an American's face a-hole. Unwarranted attack, If you have any more to say about American's come on over and see what we do to people with mouth's like your's d-head.

[cadence]

Unsurprising outburst, a-hole.

[PicMas]

Saturn: What kind of a remark was that? I thought that everybody ridiculed and made fun of the selfrighteous americans, the likes of you giving the entire nation a bad rep outside the (and now hold on because you might be shocked) 12NM border, yup that's right, there is a whole world out there.

Shortly, more power to you, I enjoy reading your well articulated responses. If more people like you made some sense and had some real arguments instead of bully tactics the conflict would soon be a thing of the past.

[sub4]

Look at the Philippine Airlines strike in 1998. The noisiest pilots were the very first to report back for work. Unions are needed. However, union actions should be tempered with a consideraton for the consequences.

[Piz Buin]

Supply & demand...sometimes we can push, sometimes we must hold back...the pendulum swings ;)

[shortly]

Completely agree Piz, there will be another time when conditions will favour a better outcome for the AOA. Lets get, at the least, some of the 49ers back to work. The rest will sort itself out in due course.

[VR-HFX]

Shortly

Your post of 31 August does IMHO represent the views of a growing and now significant but often silent slab of the roster.

I have seen a bit of small arms fire aimed your way so just thought I would chip in to say you are not the lone voice in this particular wilderness.

Sadly the AOA has lost the credibility required to be an effective advocate in the current kindergarten stalemate. Credibility cannot be regained with the current cast.

Certainly a lot of the younger guys and girls are aggrieved. What they have to realise is that the decks need to be completely cleared before the 49er issue and other grievances can get any kind of rational hearing.

To those who are posting in this forum intimating that safety is or could be a casualty of the current dysfunctionality, shame on you.

If its sympathy you want it's between sh!t and syphilis in the Websters. You won't get any by trying to frighten off the punters
from an airline that has no typhoon spincter factor.

[6feetunder]

You two take the cake! Tell me, does the pygmy's arse taste the same as the rodent's or do they each have their own distinct flavour?


Getting close to the wire there 6feetunder, I do appreciate that these are trying times at CX but please let us all stay within the bounds of common decency .



BlueEagle - Moderator.

[shortly]

Ty HFX. We have agreed and disagreed in the past but I always enjoy your posts. Well thought out and articulated. It will be a sad day should the AOA collapse completely and it is not something I would wish for. Others have intimated that something is about to happen soon and I think they are correct but probably not in the way they mean. The childish vitriol aimed my way used to get to me but no more, I do feel for the frustration which leads them to it.

[Otto2]

Not on the bus unless you want to be B cat'ed

[ironbutt57]

What 3rd world country are you from cadence?...

[cadence]

If it ain't the States it must be third world... or so y'all say.

[BlunderBus]

I can tell you that refusing an upgrade WILL result in your being fired.(immediately lost confidence in you)!so please stop referring to it as some kind of choice. There are a considerable number of loud mouth idiots on this forum who know nothing of the history or issues of this decade long dispute.There is a collective effort to have CX honour its contract and to resolve the disgusting manner in which the 49'ers were fired.Having an individual take the full weight of the current management's wrath alone would achieve nothing and be professional suicide....fact!
Incidentally the 'B' scale captains you refer to are freighter crew or CX mainstream f/o's who upgraded to capt. on the freighter on less pay than the f/o slot he left behind!
If you rely on this site to embellish you with the facts you will be doomed to be the 'eternal moron'.

[PeterZee]

"Having an individual take the full weight of the current management's wrath alone would achieve nothing and be professional suicide....fact!"

I don't think anyone's ever advocated volunteering to be cannon fodder. But if the AOA had chosen to risk its own members by implementing an upgrade ban, or other meaningful industrial action, it might actually have accomplished something by now. Instead we have the hiring ban, which arguably works against the cause for reasons well documented elsewhere.

The upgrade issue is moot now, it's already happened and that's the course the AOA has chosen, with the ensuing lack of credibilty.

You mention a collective effort to have CX honour its contract. Sounds great...but what does that mean? Clearly the AOA has no stomach for direct confrontation (acknowledging the pro-management HK labour laws). That leaves the passive-aggressive hiring ban. If that's the sum of the stategy...good luck.

[shortly]

Fact, there are mainline CX B scale passenger captains. The 'offer' offered the freighter captains a percentage (can't remember what it was - anyone remember?) of the mainline scale. All captains on the same rate in mainline gotta be good. If anyone is really worried about it I will try and discover just how many B scale captains are flying mainline. Blunderbus, careful what insults you throw they might come back to haunt you.

[Liam Gallagher]

Blunderbus; do you not know any B-scale FOs who joined in late 92 or 93 or 94?

Shortly; still haven't figured it out yet?

[shortly]

Not yet Liam, only just got back from a pleasant day with friends. I will make a couple of calls tomorrow and should be able to get a realistic figure from them. I know personally one B scale pax captain. Given his seniority could well be more.

[Liam Gallagher]

No Shortly....I was referring to the "offer".

Think outside the square

[6feetunder]

Go easy LG, don't want to over tax the boy.

[shortly]

Been a while since I was called a boy, geez 6feet makes you pretty ancient. I got the gist Liam but no bitey. We just have to disagree on that point.