Sudan military coup, A330 burning... [Archive]

atakacs

15th Apr 2023, 20:18

One lil question, how do they manage to maintain aircraft like the 330 in such demonstrably unstable places? Like how do they setup the infrastructure for even basic maintenance actions?
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) (the aircraft owner) is a (relatively) civilized and advanced place where one can operate an Airline :oh:
Now on a related topic bit surprised by BA65 actually (LHR-NBO) turning back and many other scattering around. Does Sudan have SAM or an actual air force ? Yes, in case of a need to divert things can get dicey but the overfly a war torn regions by commercial aviation is unfortunately relatively common. I guess never too prudent...

visibility3miles

15th Apr 2023, 20:19

BBC radio just said that passengers were dragged out of the airplanes.

P.S., I can’t find news to back up this report.

P.P.S., If I was in a plane that was on fire, I would want to exit immediately.

Lexif

15th Apr 2023, 21:12

Does Sudan have SAM or an actual air force ? Yes, in case of a need to divert things can get dicey but the overfly a war torn regions by commercial aviation is unfortunately relatively common. I guess never too prudent...
There are videos of a fighter jet flying low over Karthoum, firing rockets. (Edit: apparently from the regular Air Force, firing on RSF rebels.) The RSF rebel forces seem to have conquered a bunch of air bases, where they also captured a number of Egyptian Air Force Mig 29, along with their pilots. Apparently, they were based in Sudan since 2020. Check out this Twitter thread for pictures and videos of both.
https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1647225057717141509
https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1647225057717141509

Another aircraft has been destroyed in Karthoum, apparently a regional jet operating for the UN?
https://twitter.com/fl360aero/status/1647272974842511362
https://twitter.com/fl360aero/status/1647272974842511362

ORAC

15th Apr 2023, 21:21

👀👀👀 Reportedly 10 aircraft - they’d get a lot of kudos giving them to Ukraine - who I am sure, along with partner nations, would provide a lot of small arms and other ground equipment in exchange.

https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1647212578219651075?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A

Egyptian MiG-29 fighter jets captured by Sudanese Rapid Support Forces (RSF) in Merowe Airbase, Sudan.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/623x680/image_bfb2d3498e1fbc1df995cb980458b25b9e270a0a.jpeg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x960/image_31203127ae37855d6742e8cf006e576fc2415d66.jpeg

ORAC

15th Apr 2023, 21:26

https://twitter.com/logka11/status/1647275721650323457?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A

Rapid Reaction/Support Forces have captured Al Shahid Sabira International airport, in West Darfur region, Sudan.

https://twitter.com/logka11/status/1647189046916009984?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A

Lexif

15th Apr 2023, 21:45

Scenes from Karthoum airport
https://twitter.com/fl360aero/status/1647209509813735425
https://twitter.com/fl360aero/status/1647209509813735425

Equivocal

16th Apr 2023, 00:33

Now on a related topic bit surprised by BA65 actually (LHR-NBO) turning back and many other scattering around. Does Sudan have SAM or an actual air force ? Yes, in case of a need to divert things can get dicey but the overfly a war torn regions by commercial aviation is unfortunately relatively common. I guess never too prudent...Sudden, and maybe disorganised withdrawal of ATC services, perhaps?

Wokkafans

16th Apr 2023, 00:36

Inside the cockpit of the Saudia A330 during the Sudanese Military Coup.https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/12no7my/inside_the_cockpit_of_the_saudia_a330_during_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

krismiler

16th Apr 2023, 04:00

I heard on the news that a Ukrainian aircrew are being held hostage.

magyar_flyer

16th Apr 2023, 07:40

Interresting
Egyptian Mig crewed by Ukrainian mercenaries.
Interresting world we live in 🙄

renfrew

16th Apr 2023, 08:27

The Ukrainians would presumably be from SkyUp Airlines.

andrasz

16th Apr 2023, 08:39

The Ukrainians would presumably be from SkyUp Airlines.
Also several UR registered Mi-8 based in Khartoum / Kassala for UN WFP missions supporting the Tigray refugee camps.

magyar_flyer

16th Apr 2023, 08:55

I see
So who is supposed to fly those Egyptian fighters? Who does ground service?

Asturias56

16th Apr 2023, 09:23

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-65284948Since a coup in October 2021, Sudan has been run by a council of generals and there are two military men at the centre of the dispute. Gen Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, who is the head of the armed forces and in effect the country's president. And his deputy and leader of the RSF, Gen Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo, better known as Hemedti.

They have disagreed on the direction the country is going in and the proposed move towards civilian rule. One of the main sticking points is over the plans to include the 100,000-strong RSF into the army and who would then lead the new force. The violence follows days of tension as members of the RSF were redeployed around the country in a move that the army saw as a threat.

There had been some hope that talks could resolve the situation but these never happened. It is not clear who fired the first shot on Saturday morning but there are fears that this will worsen an already unstable situation. Diplomats have urged the two sides to cease fire.
The RSF was formed in 2013 and has its origins in the notorious Janjaweed militia that brutally fought off rebels in Darfur.Since then, Gen Dagalo has built a powerful force that has intervened in conflicts in Yemen and Libya and controls some of Sudan's gold mines. Rivalry between Gen Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo (pictured) and Gen Abdel Fattah al-Burhan is at the heart of the problem It has also been accused of human rights abuses, including the massacre of more than 120 protesters in June 2019. Such a strong force outside the army has been seen as a source of instability in the country.

Joe_K

16th Apr 2023, 13:08

I see
So who is supposed to fly those Egyptian fighters? Who does ground service?

The Egyptian military. Their troops and aircraft were supposedly in the country on "exercise" and "surrendered" to the RSF, according to Reuters.

ORAC

16th Apr 2023, 13:30

So who is supposed to fly those Egyptian fighters? Who does ground service?
The Egyptian army and Air Force.

It appears Egypt supports the army and were deployed for "joint training".

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2023/04/15/Egypt-coordinating-with-Sudanese-authorities-on-safety-of-Egyptian-forces-Statement

GreenXCode

16th Apr 2023, 14:13

As ORAC points out, there are significant regional air players here with Egypt at the front. I am always surprised when discussing African matters through a UK lens that our default is Nigeria in the west (for good reason IMHO, look at size & economy) and Kenya in the east (less good c/w Nigeria in previous terms). Everyone underestimates Ethiopia in this part of the world regardless of whether it is fighting a civil war or not; let us remember who got the Nobel Peace Prize in 2019 before Tigray kicked off…

SWBKCB

16th Apr 2023, 14:20

who was supporting and flying those aircrafts?!

Earlier in this thread you said:

Interresting
Egyptian Mig crewed by Ukrainian mercenaries.
Interresting world we live in 🙄

:)

magyar_flyer

16th Apr 2023, 14:39

SWBKCB indeed, but latter I was told that the Ukrainian aircrew mentioned are actually civilian (from SkyUp Airlines).
If those Migs where operated by Ukrainians if would be certainly newsworthy in this day an age. And if was Egyptians it would also be an interesting twist as it would make them direct participants in the combats.

SWBKCB

16th Apr 2023, 15:03

or UkraInian crews flying for the UNWFP?

magyar_flyer

16th Apr 2023, 15:44

Well SkyUp was definitely providing wet leases for SunAir. I guess with mostly Ukrainian crews.
Then there are possibly other crews working for the UN.
But (to me) the "interesting" part is those Migs (which did fly combat mission in all likelihood). Who was in the cockpit ? on the ground ? in what capacity ?

NutLoose

16th Apr 2023, 18:25

I take it a lot of this goes back to Wagner, nice to see their cash flow possibly being reduced. Just a tragedy it’s happening like this.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/27/europe/russia-wagner-sudan-gold-sanctions-eu-intl/index.html

Sue Vêtements

16th Apr 2023, 19:00

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x960/image_31203127ae37855d6742e8cf006e576fc2415d66.jpeg

Dumb question maybe, but what are the boxes around the undercarriage on those a/c?

...an advanced anti-theft device ?

buster1183

16th Apr 2023, 19:34

Conversation starter, how should this fighting in Sudan be resolved? Ceasefires are being broken yet there is agreements for them everyday for a few hours for humanitarian purposes? Nation leaders are urging for the fighting to stop but neither RSF or the army are seeming to listen, what should happen?

NutLoose

16th Apr 2023, 19:35

Maybe to stop various creatures climbing the legs or to protect the tyres from heat or uv sunlight.

Flyhighfirst

16th Apr 2023, 21:18

One lil question, how do they manage to maintain aircraft like the 330 in such demonstrably unstable places? Like how do they setup the infrastructure for even basic maintenance actions?

Did you read the airline in question? It was a Saudia aircraft. The national airline of Saudi Arabia. Not a Sudanese airline. Is there even a Sudanese airline?

Flyhighfirst

16th Apr 2023, 21:23

The Egyptian army and Air Force.

It appears Egypt supports the army and were deployed for "joint training".

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2023/04/15/Egypt-coordinating-with-Sudanese-authorities-on-safety-of-Egyptian-forces-Statement

Im pretty sure the RSF will treat the Egyptians with courtesy and kid gloves. They don’t want the full might of the Egyptian military coming to the aid of the Sudanese military in retaliation.

WHBM

16th Apr 2023, 21:57

SWBKCB indeed, but latter I was told that the Ukrainian aircrew mentioned are actually civilian (from SkyUp Airlines).
If those Migs where operated by Ukrainians if would be certainly newsworthy in this day.
You will find that Ukrainians predominate nowadays in aviation support positions in this corner of Africa, and some adjacent areas of the Middle East. The Mig-29 is a onetime Soviet product, was the cornerstone of both Russian and Ukraine forces for a long period, and the skills are there at all levels in retired military, whether involved in civilian or military operations. Actually a mixture of Ukrainians, ethnic Russians from their substantial Ukraine diaspora, and Russians themselves, which few from outside are able to distinguish the difference between as they all speak Russian to each other. Comparable of course to the nowadays many Soviet-era, Ukraine-registered ad-hoc freighters operated across Europe, and indeed worldwide.

Used to be that ex-military white South Africans predominated in this aviation work across Africa, but times move on.

Buster Hyman

17th Apr 2023, 02:35

Maybe to stop various creatures climbing the legs or to protect the tyres from heat or uv sunlight.
Based on recent events regarding the quality of Russian tyres, it's surely not that! :p

Out Of Here

17th Apr 2023, 03:01

Originally Posted by atakacs View Post (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652336-sudan-military-coup-a330-burning.html#post11420420)
Now on a related topic bit surprised by BA65 actually (LHR-NBO) turning back and many other scattering around. Does Sudan have SAM or an actual air force ? Yes, in case of a need to divert things can get dicey but the overfly a war torn regions by commercial aviation is unfortunately relatively common. I guess never too prudent...
Sudden, and maybe disorganised withdrawal of ATC services, perhaps?

Common sense perhaps?

megan

17th Apr 2023, 06:35

Listing of current Sudanese Air Force fleet here, details from Flightglobal page 30
https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=90688

Combat aircraft - Type, Number Of
A-5 20
F-6 8
F-7 20
MiG-21 4
MiG-23 3
MiG-29 10
Su-24 3
Su-25 14
Transport
An-12 10
An-26 4
An-30/32 8
C-130H 1
DHC-5 1
Il-76 1
Combat helicopter
Bell 205 2
Bell 212 3
Mi-8/17/171 24
Mi-24/35 43
Training aircraft/helicopters
FTC-2000 6
K-8 5
MiG-29 1

peterperfect

17th Apr 2023, 09:36

Maybe to stop various creatures climbing the legs or to protect the tyres from heat or uv sunlight.
Concur, rats love chewing aircraft wiring and making nests out of various soft materials. pp.

WHBM

17th Apr 2023, 19:45

Report in the New York Times is that destroyed aircraft at Khartoum are now 20, almost all Soviet types (if you can break through the paywall)20 planes have been damaged or destroyed at Khartoum’s airport. (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/04/17/world/sudan-fighting-news#20-planes-have-been-damaged-or-destroyed-at-khartoums-airport)

Sudan Live Updates: At Least 180 Dead and Hundreds Injured in Fighting - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/04/17/world/sudan-fighting-news#20-planes-have-been-damaged-or-destroyed-at-khartoums-airport)

as a satellite photo after the first attack showed upwards of 40 airliners there, I guess they are working through them.

Lexif

17th Apr 2023, 20:41

One of the destroyed planes is the Sudanese VIP Il-62M ST-PRA, which seems to have been active at least until 2020 edit: 2017. Can't be too many of those flying around anymore.
https://twitter.com/Gerjon_/status/1648058139953057792
https://twitter.com/Gerjon_/status/1648058139953057792
Also 3 (edit: 2) Il-76 and numerous Antonovs.

The hangar with the Egyptian Air Force Mig 29 apparently has been bombed in the meanwhile, state of the aircraft unknown. Three Migs outside appear to be damaged, one of them likely destroyed. A Chinese-build FTC-2000 (JL-9) jet trainer / light attack aircraft has also been hit.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/egyptian-mig-29s-destroyed-in-sudan

NutLoose

18th Apr 2023, 09:18

From the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-65299756

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/976x1520/image_eaf7c9d17013beef208b49f26ddf02f6546a5db9.png

WHBM

18th Apr 2023, 13:16

NutLoose

18th Apr 2023, 15:40

As seems to often be the case in military escapades in various parts of the world, the undisciplined yahoos from either side just get their enjoyment from blowing things up, regardless of any military strategy. It's like an extension of raping all the women, which serves no strategic advantage either.

I will add to that, and then after they have destroyed parts of the Countries infrastructure, they will expect aid from the west to feed those suffering from famine and to rebuild their palaces, headquarters, barracks, Hospitals, rail system, national airline, VIP aviation and all the military assets that they have destroyed.

Asturias56

19th Apr 2023, 11:24

yes but think of all the student on gap years, arms salesmen and bankers that will be employed!

langleybaston

19th Apr 2023, 16:10

yes but think of all the student on gap years, arms salesmen and bankers that will be employed!

Also all the cranes for miles and miles around:
Berlin in the years after the wall came down was a vast building site and the "crane per square kilometer" count must have been worthy of the Guiness Book of Records. Yellow or orange, most of them.