A Country Without GA?

[Sunfish]

Put it down to old age and pessimism if you like but I fail to see any evidence that the Government and public service have any interest at all in fostering a thriving GA and recreational Aviation sector and I am beginning to think that the reverse is true - we are going to be sacrificed on the climate change altar to placate The Greens and Saint Greta and their followers. The policy document that will form the basis of our destruction is The White Paper.

I apologize for my bad taste and crudity and though nothing can compare with that atrocity, I suspect that the General Aviation equivalent of The Wannsee Conference has already occurred. As a child who lost all but two relatives in the holocaust, I am overly sensitive to choices of words especially what has NOT been said and exclusionary circumlocutions. The objective of the white paper and its terms of reference fill me with dread.

To explain, "maximise the aviation sector's contribution to achieving net zero carbon emissions, including ....." sounds exactly the same as " maximise the refugee sector's contribution to achieving food security" and you know what that meant. NOWHERE in the Objective or terms of reference of the white paper is there any reference to fostering Investment, jobs and the associated economic growth in a GA sector, let alone a recreational aviation sector. Nowhere. You cannot construe "support and regenerate" to mean "investment, jobs and growth either, because that initiative is already constrained by the requirement: "uptake and manufacturing of new, more efficient, transport technologies.".

I have kept these dark thoughts to myself until two things happened today; The first: the RAA CEO opined on delays in achieving a 760 KG MTOW: "


We continue to work with CASA to push through our application to operate aircraft with an MTOW of 760 kgs. I will say that it is quite frustrating that our application was submitted in August last year, and here we are in April without an approval as yet. I wish to assure you all that I have escalated this matter to senior levels within CASA to get this sorted. Whilst I acknowledge that there are some tricky regulatory hurdles to navigate, at the end of the day this is for an additional 160 kgs of take-off weight, so it really shouldn’t be this hard. We’ll keep you all updated when things progress.

Folks ,CASA knows whats coming and is back pedaling.


Then there is the DAS latest Pollyanna press release that is so laced with qualifiers as to be meaningless, eg.: " That philosophy commits us to approaching our regulatory functions consultatively and collaboratively while taking into account relevant considerations such as cost.

It also requires us to communicate meaningfully with stakeholders, build trust and respect and fairly balance the need for consistency with flexibility. Here is a hint Pip: " YOU CANNOT DO THIS WHILE THREATENING TO CHARGE SOMEONE WITH A FELONY OR CAUSING THEIR BUSINESS TO HEMORRHAGE CASH.

Then there is Ben Morgans latest video on his interaction with he Department over the inputs to the White Paper. Industry seems to get perfunctory consideration. Ben, thats because the decision to cut GA down has already been taken. The folk in the Department already know.

As for Avmed and its reform, same thing. They will not budge in any useful way.

What we will get in the white paper is happy talk about drones while at the same time strangling whats left of GA.

Below is a link to the governments real strategy for GA - to keep the greens happy. Read it and weep:

https://stay-grounded.org/report-degrowth-of-aviation/

[Asturias56]

Not many votes in G&A I'm afraid...............

[Clare Prop]

Remember that Albanese was the minister in charge who allowed developers to turn the airports into concrete jungles. He is mates with the big end of town which is mutually exclusive with GA tenants.

Personally I think that allowing RAAus to further encroach into GA territory and white ant flying schools is another nail in the coffin. If it wasn't for the fee-help gravy train there would be few left.

As for the white paper, well Tony Abbotts lot had one that was very promising and came to absolutely nothing so I wouldn't pay too much attention to that.

[Cloudee]

Personally I think that allowing RAAus to further encroach into GA territory and white ant flying schools is another nail in the coffin.

White ant? From what I can see those GA flying schools that have embraced RAAus and operate in both worlds are doing ok.

[Mach E Avelli]

Not many votes in G&A I'm afraid...............
Between the lack of votes, and the push to be rid of internal combustion engines, and the aging GA fleet with its increasing accident rate, and the tempting land grab at airports, GA is indeed doomed. Private flying is already seen as socially unacceptable in some circles - not quite as bad as smoking, but give the Greens time, and what they don't do to kill it will be done by CASA.
Even the ultra-light/recreational flying movement will decline. Drones and surface transport are the future.
Aeromedical and the better-funded commercial pilot training establishments will survive for a while yet.

[The Wawa Zone]

Do you mean This White Paper ? https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/aviation/aviation-white-paper

GA as we know it has to end sometime; we can't keep driving around in 70's era piston aircraft forever, and as much as we value our memories and the good return we can make today out of owning those aircraft if your engineering is under control, technology and economics alone will mean the creation of new generations of aviation solutions to land-based problems, as was the case in any previous iteration.

Does it mean less flying hours for pilots ? Yes, drones will carry freight, and pax GA aircraft will have more seats.

Does it mean less work for engineers ? Yes, equipment is more reliable; ask avionics techs about that.

Does it mean less money for aircraft owners ? Do you mean drone owners :) ? Maybe. Maybe returns on the dollar will go up for owners of actual new-gen aircraft.

Will I be able to buy AVGAS drums for the boat ? What's AVGAS ?

Why doesn't China, People's Republic of, fall apart because it has no GA ? They've found other ways to get things done and some of those will find a home in Australia despite our low population/distances ratios.

Will commercial interests support GA at the expense of ignoring new technologies and opportunities ? As much chance as a new car manufacturer starting up and making new 70's era Ford Falcon's, instead of a range of new battery powered 4 or 5 seat city cars.

For decades it's been a good run, but there are legit reasons for it to turn into something else.
It's easy to look at Greta Thunberg and any of the dope smoke-marinated Greens and think they are to blame for this (why do 'progressives' always look like freak show employees ??), but they are passengers in this move as much as (most) pilots are.

I'd suggest that the real movers in this change will be the owners of the intended replacement technology and not the social progressives who coincidentally seem to have obtained unlimited funding from somewhere.

[aroa]

A country with out GA is a country that has lost billions in infrastructure, business opportunities and employment for all the required
ops for that,. Training,, ChaRter, the Station outback utes, Maintenance airfield fuel etc, etc cf the US of A
Thanks to an unaccountable bloated corporatised bureaucracy CAsA it has cost the nation dearly.
The Lucky Country. Not with Aviation.
CAsA is a disgusting national embarrassment.

[dr dre]

GA won’t end, but it will decease to a smaller size. It’s pretty much inevitable and not due to being regulated out of existence, it’ll be because the public (the market) aren’t as interested anymore.

From a private pilot perspective it’s been a changed environment over the last 20 years with the growth of cheap air travel. Thought of hiring a 172 and going for a weekend jolly with mates doesn’t really compare to a holiday in Bali for a cheaper price. There’s no exciting new tech to deal with GA aircraft still running off 70s era technology, when everyone has a device of almost unlimited computing power in their pocket.

You deride “climate activists”, but it’s undeniable the younger generations are more concerned about climate change and are attracted the latest tech, battery and electric powered craft. If GA businesses were smart they’d change their marketing to appeal to the changing market and invest in development of better electric aircraft.

Yet, as the first post shows, GA is dominated by those with a 50s mindset who just want to lecture everyone younger how stupid they are. Looking at some GA flying clubs it’s dominated with those types. Why would the new generation, the people existing GA operators have to appeal to to stay in business, have any desire to spend their hard earned money in their kind of environment? GA will wither on the vine in that case.

The old adage is always correct. Adapt, or perish.

[PoppaJo]

Aero clubs will play a smaller role, we have seen a large chunk either fall over, or go social only in the last decade, largely due financial, and staffing challenges. I see Rockhampton Aero Club has now axed the flight training part due to issues getting a HOFO, an issue that is widespread among smaller operators.

Not many left that offer full scale training departments. RVAC, Redcliffe, WA, PAC, NQAC. Some of those still offer the best training experience in my book, some of the best people I fly with to this day have all come from those clubs.

[tossbag]

GA is dominated by those with a 50s mindset who just want to lecture everyone younger how stupid they are.

100%, they are as dumb as dog****, the younger generation that is. Climate change will be finished as the 'in' protest thing as soon as they realise there's no mobile phones, therefore tik tok, facebook, insta etc without fossil fuels. Climate has been changing for 1000's of years right? Electric aircraft are manufactured with zero carbon right? And there's no emissions right? Oh, but there's batteries....... It's not an exaggeration anymore to say, western society is finished.

[nomilk]

100%, they are as dumb as dog****, the younger generation that is. Climate change will be finished as the 'in' protest thing as soon as they realise there's no mobile phones, therefore tik tok, facebook, insta etc without fossil fuels. Climate has been changing for 1000's of years right? Electric aircraft are manufactured with zero carbon right? And there's no emissions right? Oh, but there's batteries....... It's not an exaggeration anymore to say, western society is finished.That is a brilliant way to prove dr dre's point. I am sure your mindset will be the future and get the young generation flying. They enjoy being around people like you...

[tossbag]

Dude, explain to me how electric aviation is emission free, explain to me how you're going to manufacture ANYTHING without fossil fuels. Explain to me how insignificant clowns on planet Earth are going to 'change the climate.' The 'younger generation' cannot define what a woman is, they say 'believe the science' except when it's regarding gender. The state of GA is a small pimple on the arse of what really matters now. It's quite possible our young will be heading off to war in the couple of years, it probably won't be the ones who can't figure out what a woman is on the frontline, you know, the real frontline not the one politicians invented with a bull**** crisis.

Newsflash, the younger generation are flying, they don't need old fools to show them the wonders of flight or introduce them to it.

[nomilk]

I don't think they feel the need to "define what a woman is". And most understand the difference between gender and sex.

[tossbag]

Explain to me how electric aviation is emission free?
Explain to me how you're going to manufacture anything without fossil fuels? You'll have the electricity alright, but that's useless without raw materials.

And most understand the difference between gender and sex.

​​​​​​​I'm glad you picked the most important points in the post to address. And I seriously doubt they do.

[bloodandiron]

Explain to me how electric aviation is emission free?
Explain to me how you're going to manufacture anything without fossil fuels? You'll have the electricity alright, but that's useless without raw materials.



I'm glad you picked the most important points in the post to address. And I seriously doubt they do.

Boy cock girl cock eieio.

There. A response equal to your posts.

[Sunfish]

Dr Dre, I'm sorry for you because you have swallowed a utopian world vision that has no basis in physical reality, let alone logic and ethics, let alone philosophy and natural philosophy (Physics, Chemistry). Translation: Your world vision can't and won't happen. Furthermore, there is an even chance unless the Greens are stopped in their tracks worldwide, that they are going to be responsible for the deaths of two hundred million plus people, and that is NOW, not ten or twenty years down the track. That final charge by the way, is collateral damage from your own stupidity; I'm leaving out the possibility of war and genocide.

We start with climate science, which contains the massive conceit that the changes wrought by human activity actually matter on a planetary scale compared to the tectonic shifts in climate that happen anyway on a regular basis. We are one meteor away from another great extinction. One volcanic eruption from a new ice age. AGainst the forces of nature, our activities are but a tiny pin prick. Whatever we do, short of turning the planet into irradiated magma, will appear as a tiny, possibly undetectable, blip in the fossil record a million years from now.

You next conceit is that what happens in Australia, and Europe and America possibly matters in a world of Seven plus billion people mostly living a subsistence existence in Africa and Asia. The bulk of those folk want a standard of living that mirrors the better parts of ours. You think they will forgo electricity, petrochemicals, iron, steel and cement and sacrifice the possibility of an improved standard of living for their children just to limit global warming? Think again. You think you can make them? Think again.

The latter begs the question about exactly who is supposed to make the sacrifices to lifestyle necessary to achieve your utopian dream. The answer is of course: "Not you". You imagine a future where you and like minded souls walk to work or ride electric scooters around Balmain or Northcote - you live a privileged "sustainable" lifestyle based on levels of infrastructure that are unattainable for the rest of Australia let alone in Asia and Africa. So we folk in regional Australia are expected to do without IC engine cars, gas and oil for energy, watch our productive farmland being "reclaimed into national parks for your enjoyment. Meanwhile you expect us to provide you with a never ending stream of (organic) vegetarian food and fibre. Think again. To put that another way, we don't have (renewable) electric powered combine harvesters or tractors that would enable us to grow more than a fraction of what we grow now for the world.

That's where the two hundred million dead are going to arise from right NOW. Your stupid policies of limiting investment in coal, oil and gas are already driving up prices of food and that means the poorest of us are going to starve to death right NOW. Look at what happened in Sri Lanka when the idiot (green) government banned the importation of artificial fertiliser - their food and export crops collapsed and with it their already shaky economy.

But wait there is more. Our civilisation is built on electricity, steel, cement and artificial fertilisers primarily produced from natural gas (Ammonia synthesis). You got any meaningful way to produce those products at the mega levels we need every day without burning fossil fuels? Nope.

But! But! Technology you say. Well lets start by increasing copper mining and smelting by some 7000% to produce enough for a grid and electric vehicles - care to think what that will do to the environment? Have you done the calculations on what would be required in infrastructure terms to replace say half the IC engine vehicles in Australia, let alone the rest of the world? Didnt think so. But "renewables" - dont make me laugh, and we are going to build "wind farms in Bass Straight"? Ever been there? Not going to happen. i wont even dwell on the current engineering problems associated with delivering a small insignificant fraction of what you want. And for good measure GA and RAA exists because it is the lowest cost form of time sensitive transport for Australia and it even has a place in Europe and America whose terrestrial transport infrastrcture is already way better than ours but that is not going to stop you and Gretas acolytes in Canberra.

You have been sold an impossible dream, unfortunately what you will get unless people come to their senses, is what is possible and you may not like it - shivering, cold, hungry and jobless as you will be.

[SOPS]

Dr Dre, I'm sorry for you because you have swallowed a utopian world vision that has no basis in physical reality, let alone logic and ethics, let alone philosophy and natural philosophy (Physics, Chemistry). Translation: Your world vision can't and won't happen. Furthermore, there is an even chance unless the Greens are stopped in their tracks worldwide, that they are going to be responsible for the deaths of two hundred million plus people, and that is NOW, not ten or twenty years down the track. That final charge by the way, is collateral damage from your own stupidity; I'm leaving out the possibility of war and genocide.

We start with climate science, which contains the massive conceit that the changes wrought by human activity actually matter on a planetary scale compared to the tectonic shifts in climate that happen anyway on a regular basis. We are one meteor away from another great extinction. One volcanic eruption from a new ice age. AGainst the forces of nature, our activities are but a tiny pin prick. Whatever we do, short of turning the planet into irradiated magma, will appear as a tiny, possibly undetectable, blip in the fossil record a million years from now.

You next conceit is that what happens in Australia, and Europe and America possibly matters in a world of Seven plus billion people mostly living a subsistence existence in Africa and Asia. The bulk of those folk want a standard of living that mirrors the better parts of ours. You think they will forgo electricity, petrochemicals, iron, steel and cement and sacrifice the possibility of an improved standard of living for their children just to limit global warming? Think again. You think you can make them? Think again.

The latter begs the question about exactly who is supposed to make the sacrifices to lifestyle necessary to achieve your utopian dream. The answer is of course: "Not you". You imagine a future where you and like minded souls walk to work or ride electric scooters around Balmain or Northcote - you live a privileged "sustainable" lifestyle based on levels of infrastructure that are unattainable for the rest of Australia let alone in Asia and Africa. So we folk in regional Australia are expected to do without IC engine cars, gas and oil for energy, watch our productive farmland being "reclaimed into national parks for your enjoyment. Meanwhile you expect us to provide you with a never ending stream of (organic) vegetarian food and fibre. Think again. To put that another way, we don't have (renewable) electric powered combine harvesters or tractors that would enable us to grow more than a fraction of what we grow now for the world.

That's where the two hundred million dead are going to arise from right NOW. Your stupid policies of limiting investment in coal, oil and gas are already driving up prices of food and that means the poorest of us are going to starve to death right NOW. Look at what happened in Sri Lanka when the idiot (green) government banned the importation of artificial fertiliser - their food and export crops collapsed and with it their already shaky economy.

But wait there is more. Our civilisation is built on electricity, steel, cement and artificial fertilisers primarily produced from natural gas (Ammonia synthesis). You got any meaningful way to produce those products at the mega levels we need every day without burning fossil fuels? Nope.

But! But! Technology you say. Well lets start by increasing copper mining and smelting by some 7000% to produce enough for a grid and electric vehicles - care to think what that will do to the environment? Have you done the calculations on what would be required in infrastructure terms to replace say half the IC engine vehicles in Australia, let alone the rest of the world? Didnt think so. But "renewables" - dont make me laugh, and we are going to build "wind farms in Bass Straight"? Ever been there? Not going to happen. i wont even dwell on the current engineering problems associated with delivering a small insignificant fraction of what you want. And for good measure GA and RAA exists because it is the lowest cost form of time sensitive transport for Australia and it even has a place in Europe and America whose terrestrial transport infrastrcture is already way better than ours but that is not going to stop you and Gretas acolytes in Canberra.

You have been sold an impossible dream, unfortunately what you will get unless people come to their senses, is what is possible and you may not like it - shivering, cold, hungry and jobless as you will be.

Most sensible post I have read in ages.

[tossbag]

Boy cock girl cock eieio.

There. A response equal to your posts.

Coming from a deluded tik tokker, who spent what? 160k on VET FEE HELP without doing any research on job prospects, employability and the ability to pay back a 160k study loan earning 50k. You want old fools taking you seriously on so called climate change? And gender?

Good job :ok:​​​​​​​

[tossbag]

Sunny, thank you for making your (and my) point. But it won't make any difference until the inevitable happens. I'm just glad I'm of an age where it won't make much difference to me. The idiots that push this rubbish will have to deal with it in all their glory, as you say, they will be doing it cold, hungry and jobless.

[dr dre]

Dr Dre, I'm sorry for you because you have swallowed a utopian world vision that has no basis in physical reality, let alone logic and ethics, let alone philosophy and natural philosophy (Physics, Chemistry).

I think this debate was had several years ago, I remember posting study after study from every scientific body on the planet but the doubters still kept coming. Not really interested in doing it again. Take it up with groups like the CSIRO.

I will say there are some companies in Australia going down the electric path. Small and limited now, but technology is improving and the field is expanding:

ADELAIDE FIRM TO UNVEIL AUSTRALIA’S FIRST COMMERCIAL ELECTRIC AIRCRAFT (https://australianaviation.com.au/2023/03/adelaide-firm-to-unveil-australias-first-commercial-electric-aircraft/)

“This thing is amazing:” Flying school uses electric plane for pilot training (https://thedriven.io/2023/03/21/this-thing-is-amazing-flying-school-uses-electric-plane-for-pilot-training/amp/)

Electric aviation the new frontier in tackling transport carbon emissions (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7957605/silent-flight-one-mans-dream-to-electrify-australian-airports/)

GA in this country is going to have to change the way they do things and adapt the industry to attract new customers. Because, as it’s obvious to see now, it is not going to survive for long on the current path. Telling potential customers they’re fools is not going to work.

[Captain Dart]

GA won't die. The champagne socialists will still need biz jets to fly them around so they can tell everybody else that they have to freeze in the dark and take the bus because they think it will change the planet's weather.

[Sunfish]

Dr Dre you derided and insulted the group that has kept what passes for GA and RAA going as having a "50's mindset" and implied that unless they "get with the program" and adopt the current fashionable paradigm that appeals to you, they will go the way of the dinosaurs. I do not include myself in that group being a relative newcomer to flying. I did however spend the last few years of my career commercialising new inventions, so I believe i do have a little relevant experience of new technology.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with electric aircraft or electric anything; what is obvious to anyone with some experience of life and a little technical background is that there is massive over promising about what can be delivered and when. There are logistical impossibilities relating to supply of raw materials, manufacture, energy supply and infrastructure provision that cannot be solved with current technologies if at all. Then there is the question of whether such a program will make the slightest difference to green house gas emissions or even be counter productive. Then there are ethical questions on top of that.

I think I may be forgiven for observing with bewilderment, perhaps anger and absolute incredulity the bizarre spectacle of CASA falling all over itself to gain a foothold in the regulation and development of electric flying things. Considering CASA's track record, it is not an organisation I would associate with leadership in anything except the production of fear, uncertainty, misery and doubt amongst its victims.

If I were involved in drones, electric aircraft, etc. I would be doing everything in my power to avoid being regulated by CASA who, even now, will be busy crafting a legislative and regulatory straight jacket that will destroy the electric aircraft market segment as surely as they have destroyed GA.


Brighter minds can amuse themselves by speculating on the details of CASA's proposed electric aircraft regulations.

The legal definitions of "Earth potential", "battery capacity" and suchlike should be entertaining, so too the no doubt "special" Australian regulations to prevent pilots and LAMEs from electrocuting themselves (serious subject).

[The Wawa Zone]

the bizarre spectacle of CASA falling all over itself to gain a foothold in the regulation and development of electric flying things.

Any port in a storm. If CASA gets left behind they won't be able to attract funding for more staff and more floor space. Their attempts to regulate kid's toy drones was enticing but didn't quite achieve plausibility.

[43Inches]

The champagne swilling business jet owners will be moved from GA to a sub form of Air Transport operation. Everything bigger than say a Navajo for business, charter or whatever other commercial purpose will be Air Transport Category, GA will disappear and RA will cover private recreational flying and activities. In that way no one at CASA has to sign to water down GA rules and become liable and RA will be externally managed as 'none of our concern, they're just amateur aviators'.


Everything changes as technology changes, nothing really to do with greens or whatever other conspiracy. GA is dead from cost overload, from the top down, too much certification cost, liability, lack of evolution to keep costs down over regulation of everything from security to licencing and maintenance and so on...


100 years ago most passengers moved by ship and rail, lots of charter ships, boats etc... Now shipping is either large corporate or small end is personal private recreational vessels, and its still incredibly expensive even without regulatory cost burdens.

[bugged on the right]

Well said Sunfish. We have now, Generation G. For gullible.

[Maggie Island]

Well said Sunfish. We have now, Generation G. For gullible.

Does this mean that we’re only going to operate in Class G in the near future:eek:

[aeromariner]

80% of seattles electriciy comes from renewables - dirt cheap too

[Sunfish]

Aeromariner: 80% of seattles electricity comes from renewables - dirt cheap too.


Yes, certainly, of course. It makes good sense, maybe, assuming the operation minimises carbon dioxide emissions when life cycle costs are added into the greenhouse gas account.

Dirt cheap sounds nice too - just wait till it gets taxed.

However, since nobody has enacted a comprehensive carbon tax, no one, including you and me, has any idea of the actual greenhouse balance improvement, if any.
To explain, we can't account for the excess CO2 produced to build and later replace the windfarm, solar farm and transmission infrastructure without a carbon tax. We already know for example, that wind turbine blades do not recycle.

It is also ironic that the greens scream "life cycle costs" when criticising nuclear energy, but that is another debate.

Of course we are talking stuff that doesn't move. The transport energy budget is at least twice the size of fixed domestic. Then you still have the big three - steel, concrete and fertiliser production.

And Seattle doesnt matter a tinkers curse unless you can replicate the technology all the way down to the poorest village in lower slobovia and the transport needs of the poorest African republic = which we cannot do without turning the entire planet into a copper mine for one thing.

So Seattle is a nice feel good example, like buying a Tesla. Happy talk for green voting idiots.

There are arguments for going green but saving the planet tomorrow isnt one of them.

Meanwhile, the food price and availability disasters these green idiots cause are going to kill at least 200 million.

[lucille]

80% of seattles electriciy comes from renewables - dirt cheap too

70% of China’s electricity comes from coal power.. Domestic users pay around $US 8 cents/KWh. (Seattle is $US 12 cents/KWh … or 50% more than China).

[PiperCameron]

70% of China’s electricity comes from coal power.. Domestic users pay around $US 8 cents/KWh. (Seattle is $US 12 cents/KWh … or 50% more than China).

And a significant chunk of China's water supply (rivers) and the air they breathe is so polluted as to not be fit for human consumption ... but then that's the cost they chose to pay 20-odd years ago to become the Manufacturing Center of the World. As a direct result, every other country (including ours) gets to wave their "green" credentials around and rave endlessly about how great they are, whilst sending their dirty dishes someplace else so they don't mess with their calculations.

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.

[aeromariner]

Sunfish We built aircraft in Seattle - place called Boeing - you might have heard of it. Turbine blades will be recycled just like everything else - as technology moves along. I can remember in the dark days at 11PM in the office at Gippsland Aeronautics, knowing that there were guys like you out there. Spruiking rubbish like LCC. I don't know how many people showed up and quoted crap as to why Airvan would fail. Yeah and I saw the fads about what was going to go wrong in the world. For you its copper - thirty years ago it was aluminium and ironically aluminium will probably replace copper in the power grid. And maybe an electric version of the Airvan might at this stage only fly 15-20 minutes on electricity, but that is a lot longer than wilbur and orville managed first up

[Thirsty]

Regardless of pistons or electric motors or whether your willy is an inner or outer, who wouldn't want to don their goggles and go for a spin on a nice sunny weekend day?

Somehow the climate change thing is distracting us all from the underlying realities - will those in GA have a flying school and runway and aircraft and refuelling facilities to get our hobby jollies?

Australia is a big country and those outback folks need to get around in something faster than a carbon free bicycle.

CASA won't disappear - no public circus organisations do - they have self preservation down to a fine art. They need GA to help justify their existence.

Yes the squeaky wheel gets the attention - where is the GA lobby group?

[Sunfish]

Dear Aeromariner, Yes I know about Boeing in Seattle, i think you are operating under the misapprehension that I don't like renewable energy or electric vehicles; that isn't true.

What I am talking about is LOGISTICS; with our current technologies, we do not have access to the raw materials necessary to migrate the whole world to sustainable renewables now. We can't do it. Furthermore your suggestion that aluminium might replace copper is a good one - until you discover that aluminum is nick named "congealed electricity" . The turbine blades may one day be recycled - you know they are a product of a giant gas and oil based petrochemical industry as was the boat that grandstanding idiot, Thunberg, crossed the Atlantic in?

The Logistics side effects and unintended consequences of curtailing oil, gas and coal use are REAL and will kill a lot of people in third world countries - they are going to starve. Many in Australia are going to see their standard of living collapse along with the economy. They are going to be cold, hungry and destitute as a direct result of inner city idiot greens pursuing policies that have huge unintended consequences. Repeat after me Electricity, Steel, Concrete and Fertilizer. Furthermore, the environment is also going to suffer because poor people have no time for environmental conservation. They will chop down forests to keep warm.

For the record, I first visited Renton and Everett circa 1976. I watched Boeing build the B767 prototype. I've also visited Los Angeles (Douglas, Lockheed), Phoenix (Garrett), Lynne (GE F404), Cincinatti (GE CF6), PW Canada and PW Hartford. There was also BAC Filton (BAe 146 and Airbus wings designed by brother in law Andy).

Here is a video that may give you an idea of the enormity of the logistics problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0iiunc20vQ&t=13s

[outnabout]

Certainly it does appear that CASA would like GA to disappear…I have it on good authority that they estimate that 20% of GA operators will shut down as a consequence of the current regulatory “reform”….and CASA are quite OK with that decrease in industry.

statistically, there is currently one CASA staff member for every VH registered aircraft in Australia (that’s my maths, so willing to be corrected if wrong).

however, when we think of GA, the common perception is of ageing crusty Chief Pilots forcing newby pilots to work 26 hours a day 8 days a week for less than pittance to fly ageing aircraft in ****e weather.

when we think of GA, we should also include:
firespotting / firefighting
aeromedical transfers
tuna / whale shark / whale spotting
freight / bank runs.
parachute ops
animal surveys / culls
bore runs / mustering.
endangered species translocations
scenics - over the Reef, horizontal falls, the Rock, the Bridge.
passenger transport on routes where there aren’t enough passengers to make RPT viable.

a more emotional picture would be -
aeromedical evacuations, saving the lives of people across Australia.
medical professionals to remote communities,
grocery deliveries to remote communities, cut off by flood waters.

I am getting a bit sick of being told GA is as dodgy AF, and needs more regulation to make it “safer”. What we need is a regulator who actually gives AF, who:
recognised GA as a viable and vital part of aviation, rather than a nuisance to be regulated out of existence.
Allows staff to fly in GA aircraft. Better known as “put your money where your mouth is”.
Did not micro manage the training sector, which now means organisations that employ low time pilots now have to have a C&T training syllabus equivalent to a training school, to make up for deficiencies in the approved training.
looks to Canada (same land mass, similar population) rather than USA for aviation inspiration.
stops with the “ego projects”. The manufacturers of GPS must have been delighted when CaSA mandated GPS to all IFR aircraft ahead of the USA. Gave the manufacturers a golden opportunity to iron out any bugs before releasing units into their largest market.

I have been flying long enough that I can remember when working for CASA was by invitation, and was considered a real feather in the cap. Now - pilots are having to explain to the regulator the real time effect of the regulations, rather than the regulator having the knowledge to assess for themselves.

[doublemamba]

Is it true that CASA will not let its employees fly on GA piston aircraft on work business? Is this what outnabout (https://www.pprune.org/members/367669-outnabout) was implying in his above statement?
If true that must surely sum up the nanny state madness that is "modern" Australia?

[Capn Bloggs]

80% of seattles electriciy comes from renewables - dirt cheap too
Almost all hydro, lucky you. That's unlike probably 80% of the rest of the world. Try consistently making 80% in a flat Mediterranean environment.

[Mach E Avelli]

Is it true that CASA will not let its employees fly on GA piston aircraft on work business? Is this what outnabout (https://www.pprune.org/members/367669-outnabout) was implying in his above statement?
If true that must surely sum up the nanny state madness that is "modern" Australia?
Nah, it's merely CASA acknowledging that all their regulations can't make 'safe' an industry stuck in a financial rut running 50 year old aircraft on a shoe string.

[Clinton McKenzie]

statistically, there is currently one CASA staff member for every VH registered aircraft in Australia (that’s my maths, so willing to be corrected if wrong).You are wrong. The number of VH-registered aircraft and the number of CASA staff members are easily ascertainable on the electric interweb.

I think what you’re referring to is the old DCA which included the functions of what are now CASA, Airservices and the aviation ‘bit’ of the current Department of whatever-it’s-called-this-week, and which ‘ran’ all the airports that are now assets for the generation of private profits and ‘ran’ all those aerodromes that are now a pain in the backside for so many local Councils and the target of property developers.

There are many things for which CASA may legitimately be criticised, but the number of staff equalling the number of VH-registered aircraft isn’t one of them.

[outnabout]

Is it true that CASA will not let its employees fly on GA piston aircraft on work business? Is this what outnabout (https://www.pprune.org/members/367669-outnabout) was implying in his above statement?
If true that must surely sum up the nanny state madness that is "modern" Australia?

it is indeed true.

going for an audit or a CASA safety seminar in a location such as William Creek, on the Oodnadatta Track inn South Australia.

Then fly on REX to Coober Pedy, and rent a 4WD to drive to William Creek.

cant get a seat on REX? Then drive from Adelaide.

I stand corrected on the number of CaSA staff vs number of VH registered aircraft in Australia.

[Cedrik]

CASA will need a lot less staff now the policy of getting the public to check if pilots and companies have licences and AOC's then reporting back to CASA is being touted.

[Runaway Gun]

CASA would need even more staff to man the dobber call centre hotlines. Can’t subcontract it out as every operator would require English ICAO level 6.

[megan]

going for an audit or a CASA safety seminar in a location such as William Creek, on the Oodnadatta Track inn South Australia.

Then fly on REX to Coober Pedy, and rent a 4WD to drive to William Creek.

cant get a seat on REX? Then drive from AdelaideMy, they have come down, last time I was at the Creek they rocked up in a Conquest. Remember back in days of old Eric Eberbach rocking up in either the "company" Aero Commander or a Bonanza to carry out my flight test.