Best airlines to work for as a Pilot in Europe

[apdisconnect]

Hi all!

if you could work for any airline in Europe as a pilot, which one would it be and why? Which is according to you the best airline to work for in Europe?

Just curious on your thoughts…

Thanks!

[go-around flap 15]

For me i've always thought if you held good seniority in a Lufthansa group/Air France KLM group airline you've probably got it pretty good? Control of roster and a wealth of destinations, good contract and contentinental european lifestyle to go with it. With Lufthansa especially the fleet diversity keeping it interesting.

Outside of the national carriers, UK wise I imagine if you're LHS TUI B787, again, with decent seniority you're probably enjoying life?

[lederhosen]

In terms of good employers the feedback on Jet2 seems generally positive on this forum. Maybe not as well paid as the Middle East or as varied as some. But the combination of quiet winters and a reasonable culture sounds quite pleasant particularly if you like living in northern England.

[TRY2FLY]

I think Cargolux and Aer Lingus are generally well regarded by their pilots. Certainly the pilots I know at both on the whole are happy with their lot.

[Alrosa]

I’d be looking for a good work/life balance with the ability to commute from a sunny country. I don’t know which airline would be best. The one I’ve joined recently potentially allows that so I’m happy where I am.

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

Outside of the national carriers, UK wise I imagine if you're LHS TUI B787, again, with decent seniority you're probably enjoying life?


Couldn’t possibly say. 😎

[FlightDetent]

The funny thing is, you don't join any airline as a high seniority longhaul PIC.

The OP's question _as stated_ is truly pointless.

[Vokes55]

And everybody’s life situation and career ambitions are different. What’s best for one person definitely isn’t for another.

Threads like these usually just end up in phallus waving

[VariablePitchP]

And everybody’s life situation and career ambitions are different. What’s best for one person definitely isn’t for another.

Threads like these usually just end up in phallus waving

The tables have turned though. Very hard to objectively look down on Jet2 LHS. £150k (ish) for a regional base somewhere cheap up north. 30 years ago it wouldn’t have even been a consideration. But now, for a lot of people, that beats the prospect of a longhaul command somewhere like BA or VS 15/20 years down the line.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

The tables have turned though. Very hard to objectively look down on Jet2 LHS. £150k (ish) for a regional base somewhere cheap up north. 30 years ago it wouldn’t have even been a consideration. But now, for a lot of people, that beats the prospect of a longhaul command somewhere like BA or VS 15/20 years down the line.

Ok not from me but a mate of mine had LHS offered at J2 just before the start of 2020 shenanigans. He made the moved to BA instead and yes he lives up north. He is so happy at BA. J2 he was miserable. Same 2 sector days 3/4 plus days in a row was how he put it. LHS then what? Yes his mates who stayed are all LHS now at J2 but career options are more to him.

If you’re saying you’re happy at your airline that’s great.

Best airline IMO say if someone laid out every airline in EU land any option with no restrictions I would pick Air France.
Of every roster, T+Cs I have seen for me it looks the best.

[Vokes55]

The tables have turned though. Very hard to objectively look down on Jet2 LHS. £150k (ish) for a regional base somewhere cheap up north. 30 years ago it wouldn’t have even been a consideration. But now, for a lot of people, that beats the prospect of a longhaul command somewhere like BA or VS 15/20 years down the line.

What if you don’t want to live up north and do short haul for the rest of your career? As I said, different roles suit different people, it’s not a difficult concept to understand. Horses for courses. Different strokes for different blokes. Paint it as you want.

And thank you for proving that threads like these just end up in phallus waving.

[nomilk]

What good is being "home" every night if you and your family prefer to live abroad and you want to commute? Nothing is perfect for everyone.

[VariablePitchP]

What if you don’t want to live up north and do short haul for the rest of your career? As I said, different roles suit different people, it’s not a difficult concept to understand. Horses for courses. Different strokes for different blokes. Paint it as you want.

And thank you for proving that threads like these just end up in phallus waving.

Have you read my post? Have you attempted to apply even a second of comprehension whilst reading it? :ugh:

[FlightDetent]

Bro didn't need to as you've made his point now twice.

Answering what's asked descends into a groanfest of comparing singular qualities relevant much only to the one who's sharing the opinion.



​

[gipilot]

Did my fair amount of homework on terms and conditions at Euro carriers. Also obviously union influence and labour laws has to be taken in to account as that protects one’s contract or CLA the best way possible. A while ago I came to the conclusion that in Euroland there is no employer in anyway shape or form close to AF/KLM. Those two are the ultimate carriers for pilots in Europe, you will never hear of any pilot leaving or rejecting AF or KLM. Especially KLM that has a monstrous pension scheme, the pilots seem to have the best pension fund in the Netherlands. Their payscales are amazing as well, plus the share amount of possibilities of moving from fleet to fleet. Their unions have managed to maintain their core 40 yr old labour agreements as intact as possible. In my opinion they are the two best employers to work for as a pilot in Europe.

[NoelEvans]

Cargo.
The only airlines that carried on right through 2020/2021.
And will do so again if similar happens.
A very pleasant environment to work in. (Was "the best kept secret in the industry" until 2020 when every time that you saw one of those very, very rare contrails and looked it up on the likes of FR24, it was cargo -- so the secret was out!!)

[skyguardian88]

Hi all!

if you could work for any airline in Europe as a pilot, which one would it be and why? Which is according to you the best airline to work for in Europe?

Just curious on your thoughts…

Thanks!
KLM but you need to speak Dutch

[Newcomer2]

Cargo.
The only airlines that carried on right through 2020/2021.
And will do so again if similar happens.
A very pleasant environment to work in. (Was "the best kept secret in the industry" until 2020 when every time that you saw one of those very, very rare contrails and looked it up on the likes of FR24, it was cargo -- so the secret was out!!)

To each his own...
I would never fly cargo, because I need to sleep at night. Flying cargo in Europe means you can't sleep (apart from the odd day flight), even if you have short flights. Too hard on my body.
My vote goes to AF/KLM as well.

[FlyingEngineer]

Having done short/medium and now long haul, without question long haul is my preference. More quality time at home with the family and an overall better work life balance plus I love the fact I don’t return to the same patch of concrete at the end of the day and actually get to see the world. I absolutely loved short haul (initially) but the repetitive nature of the flying wore me down and there is no way I could have sustained it for an entire career. I do miss the more manual flying side of things but take every opportunity to hand fly which keeps me happy.

I would personally say getting on the seniority list at any of the decent legacy carriers (yes BA/Virgin/DHL/Cargolux/AirFrance/KLM/Lufthansa etc) at a reasonably young age is still the best option overall. Out of the friends I know who have done this I don’t know any that have looked back.

You will find most people will promote and justify whatever they are doing at that time (myself included) but have noticed once you have done 10+ years short/medium haul your opinion might change.

[midnight cruiser]

.10+ years short/medium haul your opinion might change. Currently at about 20 years of short haul, preceded by 10 years of long haul. So go figure. Ironic that you say people will justify what they're doing, but then go on to say long haul is better! I found the flying unbelievably boring, the layovers got boring once you've seen them a few times, and endless hanging around waiting for CC, buses, hotel check in/out etc etc. I even found night freight less knackerimg than jet lag

[RARA9]

Currently at about 20 years of short haul, preceded by 10 years of long haul. So go figure. Ironic that you say people will justify what they're doing, but then go on to say long haul is better! I found the flying unbelievably boring, the layovers got boring once you've seen them a few times, and endless hanging around waiting for CC, buses, hotel check in/out etc etc. I even found night freight less knackerimg than jet lag

what he said

[FlyingEngineer]

Currently at about 20 years of short haul, preceded by 10 years of long haul. So go figure. Ironic that you say people will justify what they're doing, but then go on to say long haul is better! I found the flying unbelievably boring, the layovers got boring once you've seen them a few times, and endless hanging around waiting for CC, buses, hotel check in/out etc etc. I even found night freight less knackerimg than jet lagYes I said people will justify what they are doing (MY SELF INCLUDED) so not sure really what’s ironic about that but stick 100% to my OPINION which is based on my personal experience and that of others I know. Of course you will have individual circumstances but am talking in majority numbers not minority.

[RARA9]

Pre Covid I would have to say the best gig was probably Virgin 787 , few of my mates had very nice lifestyles. They did only 750hrs max , which mixed with the engine problems meant around 3 trips per month. Whilst I was being hammered on the BA 777.
Virgin now looks awful , with uncertainty thrown in I would avoid. BA is very dull , many think LH is the saving grace after 5 years on SH . Unions have remained strong though so still clinging on to some heavy crews for trips that could be 2 man. But I’m sure that will change !
Best place to be ??
I have a young family , and want a stress free regional base . A job that pays very well and is secure. So I went to Jet2 .
If you are a young buck and want to see the world then obviously LH is the way . BA is probably good if you are young , BUT be prepared for lots of changes in the coming years I think. Your T&Cs are not set in stone

[Newcomer2]

Rara9, I believe the thread is about European airlines, not UK only 😉
If we look at terms/benefits/working conditions, I'm sorry to say this but I wouldn't put any UK airlines amongst the best.
When pre-covid guys were leaving BA to go to a lowcost (easyjet, jet2...) that says a lot. Nor can you compare Virgin (or Jet2) to the big European Legacies (pre-covid or not).
My pick: AF, KLM, Lufthansa (provided you're at Lufthansa and not their Eurowings/discover lowcost)

[RARA9]

Rara9, I believe the thread is about European airlines, not UK only 😉
If we look at terms/benefits/working conditions, I wouldn't put any UK airlines amongst the best.
When pre-covid guys were leaving BA to go to a lowcost (easyjet, jet2...) that says a lot. Nor can you compare Virgin (or Jet2) to the big European Legacies (pre-covid or not).
My pick: AF, KLM, Lufthansa (provided you're at Lufthansa and not their Eurowings/discover lowcost)

AF would be ideal

[BraceBrace]

Terms & conditions wise AF and KLM appear to be unbeatable. However there is more to the equation than money. If I could start over, I would’ve tried to get into Cargolux with no hesitation.

[Check Airman]

But now, for a lot of people, that beats the prospect of a longhaul command somewhere like BA or VS 15/20 years down the line.

No dog in this fight, but how long would one expect to wait for LH command? That’s usually the most coveted job at an airline. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to have to wait a while to get there, unless you worked somewhere like Cargolux?

[bringbackthe80s]

Having tried different types of flying in different continents, why would anyone want to do long haul only is beyond me. I enjoy the occasional 7-8 hrs flights (mostly at night as it naturally happens with this type of trips), but once or twice a month is more than enough. I am knackered for a couple of days after that and happy to have the 2 short legs days.
Anyway, to each their own. Good luck.

[BraceBrace]

Having tried different types of flying in different continents, why would anyone want to do long haul only is beyond me.

Guess it’s a mental/physical thing. My body reacts to long haul constant as if it’s holiday, short haul is constant fatigue. Based on a 24/24 schedule for both.

[skyguardian88]

Rara9, I believe the thread is about European airlines, not UK only 😉
If we look at terms/benefits/working conditions, I'm sorry to say this but I wouldn't put any UK airlines amongst the best.
When pre-covid guys were leaving BA to go to a lowcost (easyjet, jet2...) that says a lot. Nor can you compare Virgin (or Jet2) to the big European Legacies (pre-covid or not).
My pick: AF, KLM, Lufthansa (provided you're at Lufthansa and not their Eurowings/discover lowcost)
What about Swiss? Lufthansa group also

[BarryMG]

I'd say that if you're more than a few years in this business, the best airline is your current one - going anywhere else probably means starting at the bottom and waiting years to reach the same level (and by this time you would've been better in your old one anyway). Conditions at LH/AF/KLM are probably great, but only for people who already have been there for 5/10/20+ years.

[Globally Challenged]

Quite content with €205k in LHS of a light jet at NetJets with 142 duty days a year and a few volunteer days thrown in when it the kids are at school. Off = off and you can always so no for fatigue etc. Hotels are sometimes fairly crap but on the whole it’s a place I won’t leave voluntarily.

[level_change]

I don't know, I'm really miserable with the entire industry. I have done 7k plus hours as an FO on different types in different countries. From lowcost EU to Middle East, to major in EU long haul, to covid. Spent two years recovering from the rosters, got scammed with b2b agencies and then took a shot at ACMI cargo which is actually the best I have done so far. I resisted the decay in pay and conditions and always just fought it out and tried somewhere else. I'm in my mid 30ies, lost all savings when covid hit. I'm poorer than I was before getting into this career and I'm still an FO on a 737 just like when I started. The pay is the same like 12 years ago, roster is now half decent for the first time doing EU cargo, but they could send me out to god knows where tomorrow @ zero job security while the market is in a downturn and the company tells us every other week how overcrewed we are. I dont think I'm the worst pilot out there, but I dont know how much more I can still take. Everytime I walk through an airport on a crappy standby ticket I just feel like trash while I handover my hairspray and shampoo to airport security for the 5th time in that month. I'm about ready to take a command or go flip burgers and never look back, or both. All my mates are having prosperous careers outside of aviation while I'm trapped in a hamster wheel of BS. When I hug my little one after being away for 10 days straight I just think to myself, *** this ****, but I need the money to pay off the debts from the last three years. At the same time, some rich or delusional kids enjoy the "new opportunities" to work more illegaly for less. I'm probably too dumb to make it into LH, and I'm also too old and burned out already. If I listen to myself here, I should really just eject.

[Mcflyer101]

I don't know, I'm really miserable with the entire industry. I have done 7k plus hours as an FO on different types in different countries. From lowcost EU to Middle East, to major in EU long haul, to covid. Spent two years recovering from the rosters, got scammed with b2b agencies and then took a shot at ACMI cargo which is actually the best I have done so far. I resisted the decay in pay and conditions and always just fought it out and tried somewhere else. I'm in my mid 30ies, lost all savings when covid hit. I'm poorer than I was before getting into this career and I'm still an FO on a 737 just like when I started. The pay is the same like 12 years ago, roster is now half decent for the first time doing EU cargo, but they could send me out to god knows where tomorrow @ zero job security while the market is in a downturn and the company tells us every other week how overcrewed we are. I dont think I'm the worst pilot out there, but I dont know how much more I can still take. Everytime I walk through an airport on a crappy standby ticket I just feel like trash while I handover my hairspray and shampoo to airport security for the 5th time in that month. I'm about ready to take a command or go flip burgers and never look back, or both. All my mates are having prosperous careers outside of aviation while I'm trapped in a hamster wheel of BS. When I hug my little one after being away for 10 days straight I just think to myself, *** this ****, but I need the money to pay off the debts from the last three years. At the same time, some rich or delusional kids enjoy the "new opportunities" to work more illegaly for less. I'm probably too dumb to make it into LH, and I'm also too old and burned out already. If I listen to myself here, I should really just eject.

I don’t know you but your post touched a nerve. I feel your pain. I also had a rough patch in my 30s with me being stuck in the RH seat, the company being constantly on the brink and therefore no idea if I had a job next month, let alone a promotion. Got my Command eventually on a good salary just for the company to go bust and shortly after being hit by Covid like you. I ended up driving a van - like so many others - making a fraction of what I was earning before, thinking that this would be the end of my career. I’m now back flying but under no Illusion that I would be in a far worse position (not only financially) if I hadn’t come back. Obviously I don’t know if you have any other qualifications but if you don’t it’s very difficult to find something else that will pay you nearly as much. I would also be very careful with comparing others “successful” careers with yours. Most of the times we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. From my experience I can tell you that to earn anything near in a different kind of job you will have to work very hard, be constantly on the ball and under pressure. Don’t let yourself be fooled by shiny cars and big houses. The big advantage of this job is that once you check out and you’re back home you normally don’t have to think about it anymore. I’m still convinced that there will be more opportunities around the corner, especially for people with your experience. Obviously a command would help. If being home is your priority try to apply for jobs close to you. But foremost don’t try to compare your life with the life of others. Everyone is carrying is own heavy luggage believe me. Wishing you the very best!

[HidekiTojo]

£100k a year to kill yourself with fatigue. That's the modern package.

[pudoc]

that beats the prospect of a longhaul command somewhere like BA or VS 15/20 years down the line.

Command is 7/8 years at Virgin, not 15/20. I think that’s unbeatable for a wide body command. Certainly worth thinking about if you’re that way inclined. Horses for courses.

[RARA9]

[QUOTE=pudoc;11418237]Command is 7/8 years at Virgin, not 15/20. I think that’s unbeatable for a wide body command. Certainly worth thinking about if you’re that way inclined. Horses for courses.[/QUOTE

Virgin lacking at getting guys through the door ….. I wonder why

[Joe R]

Command is 7/8 years at Virgin, not 15/20. I think that’s unbeatable for a wide body command. Certainly worth thinking about if you’re that way inclined. Horses for courses.

Interesting ... could you elaborate why widebody command is only at 7-8 years at Virgin? Due to growth, or attrition, or what else? Given that 15+ years seems to be the average at most other airlines. PPJN states people leaving, but it is not clear to me why

[SuperFry]

Interesting ... could you elaborate why widebody command is only at 7-8 years at Virgin? Due to growth, or attrition, or what else? Given that 15+ years seems to be the average at most other airlines. PPJN states people leaving, but it is not clear to me why

Probably because they treated their pilots worse than any other airline in the western hemisphere during covid by sacking almost 40% and ripping up all agreements and contracts…..permanently.
Not the place to fly longhaul unless you really want to spend minimum rest downroute, position in economy and fly to New York 6/7 times per month.
Zero roster control, zero stability, zero variety, maximum fatigue.

That might be why people are leaving.

[Rhodes13]

Well given the guys going for command at the moment have done 10+ years not sure where the 7-8 years for command came from.

There's some amount of airframe growth and some retirements but nothing major. The amount of people taking part time and just leaving is picking up though due to the poor rostering practises.

Perhaps Pudoc's been listening to the fanciful stories from some of the managers over at VHQ

[Fakiiri]

I debated making a new thread but I might as well ask here. I'm in a unique situation and I realize that this is a very good problem to have, and I',m not here to gloat. I am a dual US/EU citizen living in the US and working for a big regional airline here and due to upgrade to CA next month. The industry here is obviously doing very well with new contracts bumping up payscales to unprecedented levels. However, as has been discussed on the forums over and over again, money isn't everything.

My wife and I have for a while been dreaming of moving to Europe to start a family. All of my family is there while hers is in the US. The dream was to work for Fedex and be based in CGN, but as of yesterday, they are closing the CGN domicile for good. This makes our dream of living in the Europe while working for a US carrier nearly impossible. So this leaves us with the choice of staying in the US or moving to the EU to work for an airline/private carrier. As far as airlines go, based on my research, only AF/KLM come close to pay and quality of life as the major airlines provide in the US. However, I don't speak French or Dutch. As far as private, people seem pretty happy at NetJets Europe. Do they ever hire direct entry CA's, or do you have to start as an FO? Are there any other good options I might be missing?

Don't know if I'm crazy to consider giving up a career in the US for the EU, but we'd prefer to raise kids there...

Thanks all

[bringbackthe80s]

If you move it will be the biggest mistake of your life.

[Check Airman]

I debated making a new thread but I might as well ask here. I'm in a unique situation and I realize that this is a very good problem to have, and I',m not here to gloat. I am a dual US/EU citizen living in the US and working for a big regional airline here and due to upgrade to CA next month. The industry here is obviously doing very well with new contracts bumping up payscales to unprecedented levels. However, as has been discussed on the forums over and over again, money isn't everything.

My wife and I have for a while been dreaming of moving to Europe to start a family. All of my family is there while hers is in the US. The dream was to work for Fedex and be based in CGN, but as of yesterday, they are closing the CGN domicile for good. This makes our dream of living in the Europe while working for a US carrier nearly impossible. So this leaves us with the choice of staying in the US or moving to the EU to work for an airline/private carrier. As far as airlines go, based on my research, only AF/KLM come close to pay and quality of life as the major airlines provide in the US. However, I don't speak French or Dutch. As far as private, people seem pretty happy at NetJets Europe. Do they ever hire direct entry CA's, or do you have to start as an FO? Are there any other good options I might be missing?

Don't know if I'm crazy to consider giving up a career in the US for the EU, but we'd prefer to raise kids there...

Thanks all

Since the FDX door is closed, you may want to look into Atlas. You can live in Europe (almost anywhere really) and work for a US company. The flying is VERY different, and there will be long stretches away from home, as well as long stretches at home.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

What about part time options at your current airline?

That’s my long term plan. I was at an airline that didn’t offer that option. I was chasing the money but am now in a position with more options while money will not be as great.
With your USA ticket you would be mad
to give that up.

[Airone2977]

I debated making a new thread but I might as well ask here. I'm in a unique situation and I realize that this is a very good problem to have, and I',m not here to gloat. I am a dual US/EU citizen living in the US and working for a big regional airline here and due to upgrade to CA next month. The industry here is obviously doing very well with new contracts bumping up payscales to unprecedented levels. However, as has been discussed on the forums over and over again, money isn't everything.

My wife and I have for a while been dreaming of moving to Europe to start a family. All of my family is there while hers is in the US. The dream was to work for Fedex and be based in CGN, but as of yesterday, they are closing the CGN domicile for good. This makes our dream of living in the Europe while working for a US carrier nearly impossible. So this leaves us with the choice of staying in the US or moving to the EU to work for an airline/private carrier. As far as airlines go, based on my research, only AF/KLM come close to pay and quality of life as the major airlines provide in the US. However, I don't speak French or Dutch. As far as private, people seem pretty happy at NetJets Europe. Do they ever hire direct entry CA's, or do you have to start as an FO? Are there any other good options I might be missing?

Don't know if I'm crazy to consider giving up a career in the US for the EU, but we'd prefer to raise kids there...

Thanks all

What about cargo operator in EU ? If you're OK with night operation it is a very good work/life balance and contracts are good.
DHL recruiting in Leipzig and Austria
ASL, CMA CGN in CDG
Could be an option ...

[RARA9]

I debated making a new thread but I might as well ask here. I'm in a unique situation and I realize that this is a very good problem to have, and I',m not here to gloat. I am a dual US/EU citizen living in the US and working for a big regional airline here and due to upgrade to CA next month. The industry here is obviously doing very well with new contracts bumping up payscales to unprecedented levels. However, as has been discussed on the forums over and over again, money isn't everything.

My wife and I have for a while been dreaming of moving to Europe to start a family. All of my family is there while hers is in the US. The dream was to work for Fedex and be based in CGN, but as of yesterday, they are closing the CGN domicile for good. This makes our dream of living in the Europe while working for a US carrier nearly impossible. So this leaves us with the choice of staying in the US or moving to the EU to work for an airline/private carrier. As far as airlines go, based on my research, only AF/KLM come close to pay and quality of life as the major airlines provide in the US. However, I don't speak French or Dutch. As far as private, people seem pretty happy at NetJets Europe. Do they ever hire direct entry CA's, or do you have to start as an FO? Are there any other good options I might be missing?

Don't know if I'm crazy to consider giving up a career in the US for the EU, but we'd prefer to raise kids there...

Thanks all


PLEASE don’t do it !!! Europe is going down the drain.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Fakiri, please come. European jobs don't pay very well, but at least you will work a lot and enjoy the high tax.

[zerograv]

The dream was to work for Fedex and be based in CGN, but as of yesterday, they are closing the CGN domicile for good.

To the best of my knowledge CGN is mainly UPS, and Fedex is mainly in Paris, but things might be different in current times.
Both of them have 'N' registrations flying within the EU, but have no knowledge of how that works in terms of crewing.

[Flightmech]

FDX have a EUR 757 crew base in CGN even tough the majority of 757 flying is out of CDG. However, just yesterday it was announced that the EUR 757 crew base would be closing within 12-20 months and future intra-Europe 757 flying would be supported from Memphis.

[Lepo]

Fedex just announced pilot hiring will be suspended through 2024.

[AviatorBoy_95]

Fedex just announced pilot hiring will be suspended through 2024.
Hi Lepo
Can you please share the link of the announcement?
thks in advance