AFPRB 2023

[Moi/]

So, it is delayed again...as usual...
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https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/screenshot_20230401_101742_5fb28eb56d59f957ec82882eb4e045284 97a4371.png
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[Fortissimo]

Can anyone remember a year when the AFPRB report (or it’s recommendations) wasn’t delayed?

[Ninthace]

Can anyone remember a year when the AFPRB report (or its recommendations) wasn’t delayed?
Wasn’t the one where they upped the charges more than the pay delivered on time?

[downsizer]

Must be a good 5 or more years ago now since it wasn't delayed....

[kintyred]

It’s worse than that…the Defence Secretary….yes, that’s right the ex serving officer Defence Secretary, gave the AFPRB board the remit to report by May! So he’s actually built in a delay of at least 3 months. I wrote to him noting that the Government had said that it would honour the pay review body’s recommendations for the nurses in full and hoped that that would be case for SP too. I also reminded him that an unconsolidated payment was not honouring the award in full (as happened a couple of years ago). I had a reply from an unnamed lackey saying that the unconsolidated payment was ‘in the spirit’ of the award, trotting out the Government’s mantra at the time.

it really isn’t good enough.

[M1key]

https://www.forces.net/politics/armed-forces-pay-decision-may-not-be-popular-rishi-sunak-says

[SAR Bloke]

Late, and not independent.

Is there any wonder that people feel undervalued?

[Melchett01]

3% if we’re lucky. And the usual platitudes about people being our best asset.

Can’t strike but forced to cover for those striking because a pay rise double that is deemed unacceptable.

And they wonder why morale is at rock bottom and people can’t wait to get out. It stinks.

[MechGov]

If you put up with it for long enough when you do get out the pension is indexed linked. Something to ponder if anyone is thinking of staying beyond an immediate pension point.

[BobbyJordan]

Junior doctors call off strike after new offer in Scotland. See the BBC for details……

So, it seems the Armed Forces are going to get a pay award less than the AFPRB recommendation.

However, junior doctors in Scotland at least will be appeased with a 4.5% award for last year and an award of 12.4% for this year. As well as a guaranteed inflation matching award for the next 2 years. NHS England will surely match this offer to end industrial action south of the border.

So, I wonder how well received the PMs pay deal will be for us? And how valued we will all feel in the coming weeks.

interesting times !

[Jambo Jet]

Junior doctors call off strike after new offer in Scotland. See the BBC for details……

So, it seems the Armed Forces are going to get a pay award less than the AFPRB recommendation.

However, junior doctors in Scotland at least will be appeased with a 4.5% award for last year and an award of 12.4% for this year. As well as a guaranteed inflation matching award for the next 2 years. NHS England will surely match this offer to end industrial action south of the border.

So, I wonder how well received the PMs pay deal will be for us? And how valued we will all feel in the coming weeks.

interesting times !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66136659

The reason that the pay awards are to be kept below inflation is to combat inflation. However when we are discussing the NHS all bets are off.

It will be interesting to see how this discrepancy will be explained away, although no doubt the Scottish government will be blamed. What will Westminster do to appease Jnr Doctors in England ?

It is a shame that those who have no say in the pay award they are given and cannot do anything about it will suffer as SP surely can expect to here.

I am guessing this won’t do anything to bolster retention and I can envisage some hard times ahead for the services.

Interesting and worrying times, I agree.

[Bob Viking]

This whole problem became increasingly obvious for me towards the end of my time in the RAF. Sadly you are not valued, you do not matter to anyone except your family and you will never earn what you deserve. If the ‘love of the job’ or King and Country is no longer enough then there really is only one option. As much as it pains me to say it (I didn’t and don’t hate the RAF) the only option is to walk out. Leave and do something else. Hopefully enough others will do it for someone to sit up and take notice. Though I doubt they ever will. And the military will continue to be overlooked until it’s potentially too late.

Civvy street may not be any better (and before LJ says it, the pensions aren’t as good) but it sure as hell isn’t any worse.

Sorry to be the doom monger but hoping for a good payrise is sadly a fools enterprise. You’ll just pay higher taxes to pay for the pay rises of those who were able to stamp their feet and demand more.

BV

[Lima Juliet]

This on the front page of The Times:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1578x717/img_6671_a17beb6233c7db48286e6e1e093b4987e41bd6fd.jpeg

So hopefully more towards 6% than 5%! There will also hopefully be further good news on the development of Aircrew pay expected to be announced next year. Yes, and as BV says, the pension is still very good and so has to be viewed as part of the deal (hopefully with a ~6% increase baked into the career averaging element for AFPS15). We just need inflation to nudge below 6% soon to feel a little better about it (not forgetting the average for FY22/23 was around 9%, so as this rise is effectively “in arrears” for last year’s inflation, it yet again falls behind and devalues pay).

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1575x813/img_6673_c2a036964e0704d73f35eb9e6c7200ed95da8d09.jpeg

Ever the optimist, if inflation does go down below 5% by the end of the year, then a similar 6% next year would start to see value being added again for the financial year we are in now.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1266x734/img_6674_375ce63e57f53eb33fd8f1c6d2a881d1fc0010c8.jpeg

[4everAD]

This on the front page of The Times:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1578x717/img_6671_a17beb6233c7db48286e6e1e093b4987e41bd6fd.jpeg

So hopefully more towards 6% than 5%! There will also hopefully be further good news on the development of Aircrew pay expected to be announced next year. Yes, and as BV says, the pension is still very good and so has to be viewed as part of the deal (hopefully with a ~6% increase baked into the career averaging element for AFPS15). We just need inflation to nudge below 6% soon to feel a little better about it (not forgetting the average for FY22/23 was around 9%, so as this rise is effectively “in arrears” for last year’s inflation, it yet again falls behind and devalues pay).

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1575x813/img_6673_c2a036964e0704d73f35eb9e6c7200ed95da8d09.jpeg

Ever the optimist, if inflation does go down below 5% by the end of the year, then a similar 6% next year would start to see value being added again for the financial year we are in now.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1266x734/img_6674_375ce63e57f53eb33fd8f1c6d2a881d1fc0010c8.jpeg
I believe the increase to AFPS15 is related to average earnings which was 7% this year, this increase has been applied already to the 15 part (the pension calculator hasn't been updated yet though). The 75 uplift depends on the pay rise we get so no doubt will be lower.

[Lima Juliet]

Just to show what that 1 year “in arrears” pay rise effect looks like I have plotted the annual pay rises against it’s previous year’s inflation. As you can see, this year’s rise, if it is 6% will be painful and effectively wipe out any 0.1% to 0.3% gains we’ve made since 2016. Prior to that we were about 8% below where we should have been thanks to “pay restraint” and “austerity”.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1690x929/img_6675_cd58b57d7371f3831c08ecd0c7e1fe98880f1c15.jpeg

But if the Government did award say a 9% pay rise across the board for Public Sector workers then our inflation would likely be even higher for longer. Don’t forget that the economy and markets don’t like unfunded and unsupportable Government measures - remember the disaster of “Trussonomics” and Kamikwasi’s crazy plans!

So marginal gains are the most likely in future years to claw back what value has been stripped from our pay scales. So at best we should hope for 1-2% gains over inflation towards a better deal. Unless something like a new pay structure like Haythornthwaite recommends makes a select few considerably better off.

PS. I should add that this does not include anyone with annual increments or those that have promoted. So they will still likely be ever so slightly better off as these tend to be an extra 1-2% for seniority increments and 5-7% for promotion.

[Lima Juliet]

I believe the increase to AFPS15 is related to average earnings which was 7% this year, this increase has been applied already to the 15 part (the pension calculator hasn't been updated yet though). The 75 uplift depends on the pay rise we get so no doubt will be lower.

Kind of, I’ve wrestled with this one in my mind before. The AFPRB recommendation is trying to preserve the value of your current pay rate - so if inflation has averaged 2% the previous year and AFPRB recommend 3%, then you will see a 1% rise overall. The same goes for any of the AFPS - if the Main Pay (which is pensionable) goes up: the ‘representative rate of pay’ for AFPS75 will go up (so will the final rank pension); for AFPS05 then if your Main Pay goes up then your “1/70th of your best 365 days pay in your last 3 years” will also attract that uplift; for AFPS15 then again if Main Pay goes up then your “1/47th of your annual pay going into your notional pot” will also go up by that amount, however, the Annual Wage Earnings (AWE - which is different to inflation) will only grow that deferred pension pot over the next few years.

You have to do some fancy maths with understanding the full effect of the pay rise on AFPS15, as it is more than just the rise itself.

[Party Animal]

Seems to have gone quiet over the last few days wrt public sector pay rises. Just throwing up a ‘caution caption’ against LJ’s optimism as there appears to be a clear split in the cabinet against supporting the various pay body recommendations or ignoring them in the war on inflation. So standby for the 6% recommendation becoming 3% actual?

On a separate note, the AFPS have released a note that says the new McLoud compatible pension calculator should be released on the 1st August. Whilst long overdue but nevertheless clearly welcome, I fear this will only add to further increases in the PVR/ET rate when even more disgruntled SP get to see how much better off they might be under their chosen option. Particularly those in the MEOS bracket who were stuck on AFPS75 up until April last year.

[Moi/]

Beyond pensionable length of service ✔️
Unhappy with Salary, compared to other trades ✔️
​​Awaiting TG1 FRI info ✔️
Don't want promotion to the next rank ✔️

See what comes eh..

[Asturias56]

"So standby for the 6% recommendation becoming 3% actual?"

possibly deferral of part or staged payments??/

[Melchett01]

"So standby for the 6% recommendation becoming 3% actual?"

possibly deferral of part or staged payments??/

Remember a few years back when the AFPRB recommended a wallet busting 2.9% and it was paid as 2% + 0.9% non consolidated bonus? I did wonder when they said last week we always honour the Pay Review Bodies’ recommendations . Odds on a re-run?

[Party Animal]

I also remember several years back when the pay rise was not backdated to the 1st of April but started from Sep or Oct? Definitely Tories in power at the time and I think it was the John Major era.

[vascodegama]

The other trick was a staged payment -cant remember the figures but say 6% recommended, we got 3% in Apr and only 6% 6 months later-net 4.5%. At least Cox and Kings weren't able to hold onto the extra for a couple of months and earn more interest!

[ORAC]

Pay review bodies recommendations accepted.

Police get 7%, doctors and teachers 6%… and armed forces 5%…

https://news.sky.com/story/millions-of-uk-public-sector-workers-including-teachers-and-doctors-to-get-pay-rises-12920175

[M1key]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66188500

[reds & greens]

"Reprioritise Budgets", Hmmmm - a taste of seeking further internal efficiencies?
that'll be a first...

[Just This Once...]

A real-world pay cut that is part-funded by additional cuts to defence capability and set at a level below the 'overall public sector rate' of 6%.

Yep, it managed to be the worst of all worlds.

[BEagle]

About 0.57 x current CPI and less than 0.5 x the last AFP and State Pension increases.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

I wonder if I am becoming ever more cynical the older I get. There was a time when I would have looked at a 5% payrise and been genuinely happy- - I do not recall getting such a pay award in my 3 decades of flying. However, I watched the announcement in the House today and all I could think was 'Why do the Armed Forces get the lowest pay award in the public sector?'.

I suspect it is down to lack of lobbying and standing up for the team that personified the almost traitorous term of the now thankfully departed CAS. He had the opportunity to fight as hard as the other public sector leaders did for a decent pay rise , but his WOKE agenda, to the exclusion of virtually everything else, has now manifested in the lowest award of any public sector.

Just my thoughts.

[JTIDS]

Details can be found here. (https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2023-07-13/hcws943)

I’m not complaining. Having left very recently this will neatly bump up the gratuity and pension… even more so when I finally get by onto AFPS75.

[3 bladed beast]

Any idea what the 1000 pounds “bonus” is.

Or who it is aimed at?!

[JTIDS]

Everyone’s base salary goes up by 5% plus £1000. That way junior ranks get a much bigger percentage pay increase. Actually not a bad plan.

[4everAD]

So what exactly does this £1000 consolidated mean? Is it taxed and NI'd? How does it affect future pay/pension?
edit: just twigged what this means! So the initial 5% sounds dissapoiting but it actually works out at 7.1% for me, not as bad.

[BrianTrousers]

Everyone’s base salary goes up by 5% plus £1000. That way junior ranks get a much bigger percentage pay increase. Actually not a bad plan.

I agree. For someone on £30k a £1000 consolidated payment represents a 3.3% pay increase. If you add that to the 5% that everyone gets it means that the lower paid ranks are actually getting 8.33%. I think that’s fair - the juniors are feeling the impact of the cost of living crisis much more than the seniors.

and it still gives us the moral high ground because Joe Public will only see the 5% and probably feel sorry for us. Smoke and mirrors maybe but it maintains our goodwill with the man on the street.

[3 bladed beast]

I’ve read the report but it doesn’t state it will be back dated to April.

Have I missed this or can we assume it will be?

[somewhereout]

The 1000 is, I guess, a one off bonus. This is sly, wont be there next year or contribute to pension. 5% is still a real terms pay cut. Public sector pay rises have little correlation with raising inflation- small % of workforce and no impact on profit margins. Dont imagine this is great simply because it could have been worse.

[M1key]

The 1000 is, I guess, a one off bonus. This is sly, wont be there next year or contribute to pension. 5% is still a real terms pay cut. Public sector pay rises have little correlation with raising inflation- small % of workforce and no impact on profit margins. Dont imagine this is great simply because it could have been worse.

It is not a one-off bonus. People on different pay scales will get varied increases.
New pay scales are in the AFPRB Report now available.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/armed-forces-pay-review-body-fifty-second-report-2023

[BEagle]

I’ve read the report but it doesn’t state it will be back dated to April.

The news item stated that the independent pay review bodies' recommnedations have been accepted in full by the government.

The AFPRB report, a link to which is included in the Written Statment, shows all increases applying from 1 Apr 2023.

Which should, therefore, mean that your awards will be backdated to 1 Apr 2023.

[LS8C1]

Anyone know if RRP (flying pay) is also subject to the 5% increase?

[PostMeHappy]

The Report actually recommends 5.8% for RRP…if that is accepted as well…

[Melchett01]

Remember a few years back when the AFPRB recommended a wallet busting 2.9% and it was paid as 2% + 0.9% non consolidated bonus? I did wonder when they said last week we always honour the Pay Review Bodies’ recommendations . Odds on a re-run?

Reading the report I see the MOD wanted to do the old non-consolidated bonus trick YET AGAIN. They still don’t learn do they.

And comments on the food charge being frozen in light of poor quality food I see as an indictment of the whole Pay As You Starve fiasco.

[Dan Gerous]

... 'Why do the Armed Forces get the lowest pay award in the public sector?'.

Because the government know they'll do as they're told.

[Lima Juliet]

Good grief, the same old doom mongers. “Knock it off with them negative waves”. It is not just 5% and a £1k bonus. This is what it actually is:

5% rise on Main Pay. Then £1k added. Then RRP(F) (flying pay for the old b^ggers) goes up 5.8%. All back dated from 1 Apr 23.

So as others have said, if you earn £50k Main Pay, then the new Main Pay is £52.5k. Then you add £1k to that salary, that is consolidated (ie. Pensionable) and baked in from now on. That makes £53.5k. So £50k to £53.5k is a 7% rise. Now, look at RRP(F), let’s say you get £15k, so with 5.8% uplift that is £15,870. So now for a flyer, that is £65k total rising to £69,370 - an increase of just over 6.7%.

Now, I know that isn’t quite the 8-9% CPI overall from Apr 22 to Apr 23, which the above 6.7% is trying to balance. But if we see inflation drop below 7% next month, as some predict, then we aren’t too far adrift. By Christmas predictions put inflation below 5%. If next year there is say a 1.5% over inflation pay rise - say a similar 6% again - then we will be no worse off.

Therefore, this is a fairly good result, with Government in a sticky situation. What happens next year will be the real crunch factor and don’t forget we are also due a General Election and yet another Integrated Review in 2025. So lots of variables on how this may play out.

[JEMster]

There is an excel pay calculator on DC at https://jive.defencegateway.mod.uk/docs/DOC-956095

[Roland Pulfrew]

Then you add £1k to that salary, that is consolidated (ie. Pensionable) and baked in from now on. That makes £53.5k. So £50k to £53.5k is a 7% rise.


LJ, I may have missed it, but I thought the £1K "bonus" was exactly that, a bonus and therefore not pensionable and not taken into account in any future pay awards.

[BrianTrousers]

LJ, I may have missed it, but I thought the £1K "bonus" was exactly that, a bonus and therefore not pensionable and not taken into account in any future pay awards.

You have missed it. The £1000 payment is not a bonus- it is a consolidated payment. That means it is taxable, but also pensionable and enduring. Ie it is added to your annual salary amount so that any percentage award in subsequent years will take into account this extra £1k

[RAFEngO74to09]

(1) Deborah Haynes on Twitter: "NEW: @DefenceHQ plans to cut up to 3,000 civil service jobs and impose a temporary recruitment freeze to help fund a pay rise for the armed forces, @SkyNews understands. 1/" / Twitter

[Lima Juliet]

Roland Pulfrew as BrianTrousers correctly states - it is not a “bonus”, but a neat way to put consolidated pay up but giving more to those less well paid. For example, give £1k more than to those on £50k it is a 2% rise, but for those on £100k it is only 1%. :ok:

The only snag is you can’t do that too often as no one will want to get promoted as the pay jumps are reduced.

[SVK]

Credit where it’s due, I think the AFPRB have played a blinder on this one. A bit like when they snuck the extra 1% raise a few years ago.

From a political point of view, the headline figure of 5% looks reasonable and restrained in these difficult times, especially compared to the demands being made by other public sector workers.

Meanwhile, the flat-rate £1k added to all pay increments essentially works out as a >12% pay rise for those at the bottom through to >5% for those at Brigadier \ Air Commodore level.

In sum, I wasn’t expecting more than 5-6% and I’m actually pleasantly surprised by my +6% overall rise. Real terms pay cut? Yes. Adding a fair chunk to my non-contributory pension? Also yes.

[Friedlander]

Some sensible responses above and the point about the £1K being consolidated (and therefore pensionable) is spot on - the impact is a greater benefit at the bottom where it's really needed. Nice too that the SFA charges are staying as is - the level of (non-)service being provided by the current set of clowns is bewildering in its levels of incompetence. That said, I am not sure the SLA is much better - it's the same company after all.

A genuine question though, are our pensions really non-contributory or is our pay abated to reflect the benefit?

[ShyTorque]

I remember being disappointed by “poor” service annual pay rises.

To put the above in perspective..the last seven years of my flying career, working for a private aviation department, resulted in a total pay rise of a flat zero percent.

[Ken Scott]

A genuine question though, are our pensions really non-contributory or is our pay abated to reflect the benefit?

My understanding has always been that pay was abated by approximately 8% to cover the ‘non-contributory’ pension, your pension payments were then based on your net salary rather than the nominal gross one had you actually had your contributions deducted.

However like most, if not all public sector pensions, the value of your index linked pension is far more than your contribution, real or nominal.

[Lima Juliet]

It is demonstrably non-contributory because if you opt out of it (I have no idea why you would) then you still get paid the same. It also does not squirrel away a pension pot for you. It is in effect an IOU note from the Government, written into UK Law, to keep paying you in retirement. It is paid for out of separate fund propped up by the Defence Budget. The country would need to descend into total Anarchy or go totally bankrupt (after all of its assets had been sold off) to not pay out.

Of course there will be those that say this could be possible - of course it could, but how likely is that compared to your pension fund company going belly up, your stocks and shares taking a dive, or your property portfolio spoofing in? I’d suggest that all of the latter are very much more likely!