Jetconnect NZ Salary

[exBng Pilot]

Is someone kind enough to give me some idea of the Jetconnect F/O terms and conditions.

Tried using my friend google but a lot of information is out of date.

Thanks

[DashTrash.]

Is someone kind enough to give me some idea of the Jetconnect F/O terms and conditions.

Tried using my friend google but a lot of information is out of date.

Thanks

I think new FOs only made 80-90k NZ tops out at 130k ish NZ after 3-4 years

honestly mate from people who have worked there. Avoid this company. Only good thing here is the people you work with.

this company previously bonded new hires with $80,000 for 2-3 years to stop you from leaving.

be very careful

[dctPub]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1048x712/image_bd3ecd183d2c0d3c1001469cf6d4d2db9b29f3a2.png
Straight from the NZALPA documents page.
I don't work for Jitconnict but apparently they no longer use the Under Training payscale and you get paid First Officer rates from day 1.

[soseg]

You'll be flying the exact same 737s that Qantas Mainline pilots fly from Australia. All VH-registered. But you'll get paid literally half of what the Aussie's get.

[tail wheel]

Wikipedia: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetconnect)

On 17 May 2006, the union representing Australian Qantas pilots, the Australian and International Pilots Association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_and_International_Pilots_Association) (AIPA), lodged an application to the Australian industrial relations commission Fair Work Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Work_Australia), seeking to alter its eligibility rules to enable the enrolment of Jetconnect pilots in the union. On 23 May 2007 the commission ruled against the union, declining to consider the question, considering it inappropriate for the AIPA to be able to enrol New Zealand–based Jetconnect pilots, as they were already eligible to be members of the New Zealand Air Line Pilots' Association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Air_Line_Pilots%27_Association).

In December 2009 the AIPA took Jetconnect parent Qantas to Fair Work Australia, accusing the company of deliberately driving down wages and conditions, by undermining the spirit and intent of the Australian Fair Work Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Work_Act). The AIPA accused Qantas of paying Jetconnect pilots 40 percent less than Qantas pilots, who six months earlier had been flying the majority of the airline's trans-Tasman services. Qantas was confident that it would win the case, stating: "These are New Zealand pilots operating New Zealand-originated services flying New Zealand-registered aircraft operated by a New Zealand entity".

In May 2010 Fair Work Australia president Justice Geoffrey Giudice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Giudice) agreed to convene a full bench to hear the application, and in July 2010 the Australian Council of Trade Unions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Council_of_Trade_Unions) (ACTU) was granted leave to intervene in the case after the ACTU argued that the outcome would have major ramifications for labour hire practice in Australia. The ACTU made its final submission regarding the case in March 2011, and in a majority decision handed down in September 2011 Fair Work Australia dismissed the AIPA's application.

In June 2011 the ABC program Hungry Beast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_Beast) produced a parody television advertisement for Qantas, highlighting the use of Jetconnect for its trans-Tasman flights.

[propaganda]

Those NZALPA published salaries look reasonable for NZ , although the salary doesn't even compare to QF mainline and that's before you look too deeply into the other value added benefits.

The difference in T&Cs must creat a level of animosity between the two pilot groups, particularly when flying the exact same QF mainline B737s, but unfortunately your options are extremely limited if you want to live and work in NZ.

[b787q300]

This all is from word of mouth but what I have been told that JC will be losing a lot of pilots soon. About 1/3 of their 120 or so pilots looking elsewhere. Some left for Atlas and some leaving for Middle East soon. Struggling to recruit more numbers as some are not turning up and some are rejecting after being given start date. NEW FO under training pay is removed. Current pilots will be given $6k for referring a pilot to join JC, once they complete training. Some of the JC pilots were given a NO result from recent interviews of SO mainline position in order for them to stay in JC group and mainline will be interviewing about 8-10 JC pilots for SO mainline position soon.

You cannot bid for specific trips. You can only bid for RDO's. Day trips are mostly reserved for line training. Multi day trips including up to 4 day trips you will start early Day 1 and finish late close to midnight on Day 4. Last negotiation was straight rollover from previous contract except the salary figures from dctpub's post.

No focus to improve any T&C in retaining current JC pilot group as of yet from JC management or QF.

[exBng Pilot]

Thanks for the replies.
The salaries seem on the low side, especially taking into account current inflation levels.
What's the progression like to command?

[kiwi grey]

Straight from the NZALPA documents page.
I don't work for Jitconnict but apparently they no longer use the Under Training payscale and you get paid First Officer rates from day 1.
The reason that they've stopped offering those F/O Under Training Salaries ($41,600 / $42,432 / $43,281) might be that they would be illegal.
From today (1st April 2023) the Adult Minimum Wage is $NZ21.70/hour. Assuming a 40 hour week, that's a bit over NZ45,000 p.a.

[ElZilcho]

Thanks for the replies.
The salaries seem on the low side, especially taking into account current inflation levels.
What's the progression like to command?

They are.

JetConnect used to have a “retention bonus” which was paid on your anniversary each year, but compared to the other operators, was less of a bonus and more of an equalizer… those published rates look like the same figures from 10 years ago just with the retention bonus added in. Unless they’ve still a got an annual retention on top of those figures?
But 2% increases while inflation's been 7% for the last 2 years? It’s insulting.

For comparison, a year 1 SO at Air NZ starts on $120k, an 8th year A320 FO is on $172k, factor in a better contract and they’re probably on par with a JC skipper.

They used to charge for type ratings, but believe it might just be a 2 year bond now? So by all means, if you need 737 rating and a paycheque for 2 years go for it, but sticking around long enough for a Command and potentially getting stuck there (life happens, uprooting a family isn’t easy), couldn’t recommend it.

[snakeslugger]

Low side indeed, I’d say grim 😳

[Hothighhungover]

The pay might be terrible but you get to wear a white hat and tell the chicks at the bar you are a qantas pilot.

[phantom menace]

Most of the chicks will think you're selling ice cream and will go with the tradies who earn double that.

[On Guard]

This all is from word of mouth but what I have been told that JC will be losing a lot of pilots soon. About 1/3 of their 120 or so pilots looking elsewhere. Some left for Atlas and some leaving for Middle East soon. Struggling to recruit more numbers as some are not turning up and some are rejecting after being given start date. NEW FO under training pay is removed. Current pilots will be given $6k for referring a pilot to join JC, once they complete training. Some of the JC pilots were given a NO result from recent interviews of SO mainline position in order for them to stay in JC group and mainline will be interviewing about 8-10 JC pilots for SO mainline position soon.

You cannot bid for specific trips. You can only bid for RDO's. Day trips are mostly reserved for line training. Multi day trips including up to 4 day trips you will start early Day 1 and finish late close to midnight on Day 4. Last negotiation was straight rollover from previous contract except the salary figures from dctpub's post.

No focus to improve any T&C in retaining current JC pilot group as of yet from JC management or QF.

I heard mainline had taken some JC guys on courses already? True?

[Ollie Onion]

Qantas is taking people from all over the Group. Jetstar is releasing 2 pilots per month, so it could be a long wait. In future Incan see the only way into Mainline will be via one of the Group entities.

[DashTrash.]

In future I can see the only way into Mainline will be via one of the Group entities.

Never gonna happen mate. Even now at least 50% of mainline entries are external applicants (Cathay expats, heaps of Rex people and former employees of Vara and Virgin. From a HR perspective they then need to fill 2 jobs rather than 1.

The only reason Qantas take internals on is to dangle the carrot of “career progression” and keep people at lower paying subsidiaries for years longer than they should be. I personally know many people who are too critical in their operation to let go and thus they are stuck.

the best way to get to mainline is to be outside of Qantas. I have a mate there who says that Jetconnect only releases 1 person for each intake (if female will be expedited, and don’t expect them to respect seniority either they allowed people who were there 6months to leave before people who were there for 6 years…

DashTrash

[morno]

What he said. There will never be a “Group Only” employment stream for mainline. Doubles the costs essentially.

[buzzz.lightyear]

For a good laugh search for ‘Hungry Beast Jetconnect Ad’.. it’s on U tube.. Johnny T is in it.. it was done about 12 years ago but still very relevant. Funny but true..

[The Love Doctor]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1048x712/image_bd3ecd183d2c0d3c1001469cf6d4d2db9b29f3a2.png
Straight from the NZALPA documents page.
I don't work for Jitconnict but apparently they no longer use the Under Training payscale and you get paid First Officer rates from day 1.


That is utterly appalling. No-one should be signing up to work for them at all. Selling yourself and your colleagues out

[Ollie Onion]

That is utterly appalling. No-one should be signing up to work for them at all. Selling yourself and your colleagues out


Easy to say if you have a job, in NZ though if you don't work for Air NZ Jet then your options are Jetstar NZ or Jetconnect, all the other operators pay less than the figures that disgust you.

[On Guard]

Easy to say if you have a job, in NZ though if you don't work for Air NZ Jet then your options are Jetstar NZ or Jetconnect, all the other operators pay less than the figures that disgust you.

Yep, unfortunately the price we pay for living in a small paradise. Frustrating.

[dctPub]

living in a small paradise

Lmao you've got to be kidding me.

[Parkender]

Hey everyone. Could someone please help me hopefully you know. If you accept a position with JetConnect (NZ) are you eventually able to transfer to JQ or Qantas (AUS) internally? or would it be an external rehire?

Cheers

[Ollie Onion]

[QUOTE=Parkender;11445863]Hey everyone. Could someone please help me hopefully you know. If you accept a position with JetConnect (NZ) are you eventually able to transfer to JQ or Qantas (AUS) internally? or would it be an external rehire?[QUOTE]


Varies from time to time, I know of people who were forced to resign and be rehired to change entities. A couple recently transferred from one to another and kept service benefits like staff travel but still had to enter the new entity at the bottom of the seniority. Technically it is a streamlined process to get into Qantas Mainline but the kicker is that once accepted you rely on your current employer releasing you and some wait 18-24 months for the start with no seniority until you start date whilst externals start straight away. My advice, don’t join expecting an easy transfer, if there is a particular entity you want to work for then try for that one.

[nike]

You'll be flying the exact same 737s that Qantas Mainline pilots fly from Australia. All VH-registered. But you'll get paid literally half of what the Aussie's get.

Year 1 FO pay on a 737 in Oz is $210K?

Nice.

[AerocatS2A]

Year 1 FO pay on a 737 in Oz is $210K?

Nice.
You don't need to ask, the Australian employment agreements are public information. Feel free to browse through the QF short haul contract.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5u ZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvMjAyMi84L0FFNTA3MTI2LTIucGRm 0?sid=&q=qantas%24%24pilot%24%24short%24%24haul

And no, it's not $210K, it's $145K, AUD of course, and in a country with much cheaper cost of living.

[cloudsurfng]

You don't need to ask, the Australian employment agreements are public information. Feel free to browse through the QF short haul contract.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5u ZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvMjAyMi84L0FFNTA3MTI2LTIucGRm 0?sid=&q=qantas%24%24pilot%24%24short%24%24haul

And no, it's not $210K, it's $145K, AUD of course, and in a country with much cheaper cost of living.

with standard hours flown (around 70), plus allowances a first year FO in mainline will gross around 200k

[AerocatS2A]

with standard hours flown (around 70), plus allowances a first year FO in mainline will gross around 200k
Sure, there's always this and that to bring it up to whatever.

[Lapon]

Sure, there's always this and that to bring it up to whatever.

I have noticed over the years that for some reason QF mainline pay has to be quoted inclusive of allowances, salary, overtime etc etc (that someones mate once got etc) rather that just spitting out a bare bones basic min salary like everyone else does.

[On Guard]

I have noticed over the years that for some reason QF mainline pay has to be quoted inclusive of allowances, salary, overtime etc etc (that someones mate once got etc) rather that just spitting out a bare bones basic min salary like everyone else does.

Particularly with qf SH it’s somewhat relevant as it’s significant. 250k achievable and 300+ if willing to have little life.

[Lapon]

Particularly with qf SH it’s somewhat relevant as it’s significant. 250k achievable and 300+ if willing to have little life.

The problem is that most people need to know what they can be at least guaranteed to make, not what they could potentially make in X Y Z scenarios - particularly where those extras are outside ones control anyway.

Pretty much every airline in this part of the world has some sort of allowance and over time structure, but comparing one's all in pay on a busy year to another companies bare bones basic is more than a tad misleading.

There are people at my outfit earning a ****eload more than me as they are more inclined to lift a finger when given the opportunity, but we still talk in base salary with anything more considered a pleasant extra - not something Id (literally) bet the house on year to year.

[cloudsurfng]

I have noticed over the years that for some reason QF mainline pay has to be quoted inclusive of allowances, salary, overtime etc etc (that someones mate once got etc) rather that just spitting out a bare bones basic min salary like everyone else does.

that’s all well and good, but most basic salaries seem to be for around 70hrs a month yeah? Been on the 737 over 16 years. The only time I have been rostered to our mgh of 53 is during COVID.

if you want to compare apples with apples, is it not better to compare the remuneration received for the hours flown?

[Lapon]

that’s all well and good, but most basic salaries seem to be for around 70hrs a month yeah? Been on the 737 over 16 years. The only time I have been rostered to our mgh of 53 is during COVID.

if you want to compare apples with apples, is it not better to compare the remuneration received for the hours flown?

Not really unless you choose how many hours you fly.
I rarely fly more than 40hrs per month (despite an overtime threshold in the mid 60s), while others in the same rank on type will do nearly double if they want or have the opportunity.
Heck I could count on a hand the number of times I've flown more than 70 hrs a month in a career measured in decades now.

Unless your guaranteed more than 53 hours a month, It might be more appropriate to say ones base pay X but typically Y hours of overtime can be achieved... infact, reading the Air NZ thread that is how they present thiers, so too a certain operator QF recently failed to acquire.

[morno]

Not really unless you choose how many hours you fly.
I rarely fly more than 40hrs per month (despite an overtime threshold in the mid 60s), while others in the same rank on type will do nearly double if they want or have the opportunity.
Heck I could count on a hand the number of times I've flown more than 70 hrs a month in a career measured in decades now.

Unless your guaranteed more than 53 hours a month, It might be more appropriate to say ones base pay X but typically Y hours of overtime can be achieved... infact, reading the Air NZ thread that is how they present thiers, so too a certain operator QF recently failed to acquire.

But a year full of 53hr rosters is not likely either

[Lapon]

But a year full of 53hr rosters is not likely either

So.... whats guaranteed? If 53 hrs is guaranteed thats what I'd be planning my base/worst case scenario on.
If someone wants to rely on overtime and allowances to make ends meet then kudos to them. Most people I know would welcome any extra as an additional payment, not treat it as a given and quote it as quasi base.

[Poto]

MGH is 53hrs. However(Covid notwithstanding) the eba has a clause nominating 71:48hrs as optimum divisor. This is why your expectations can be reasonably based around this figure. It almost always lands near this figure. Leave is paid at your average hours and the performance bonus is also calculated on personal credit hours. Which this year will easily be another Months Pay (13th Month). Any flying you seagull above this is ‘overtime’ & conversely you May ‘give away’ to willing seagulls as much as you like.

[ADFUS]

Might as well start including long service leave in the figures :}

[SandyPalms]

So, if you were guaranteed zero hours for zero pay, but generally get 70 hours per month, would you consider yourself unemployed with zero salary?

[AerocatS2A]

You’ve just described “casual”. I certainly wouldn’t commit to a mortgage and other long term expenses that required me to work 70 hours a month if I was on a casual contract.

[SandyPalms]

Sure, and that’s absolutely fair enough. But does a casual person tell their mates they get paid nothing, when asked about how much money they can expect, if they were to choose that role? Of course they don’t. This little tangent has all the hallmarks of sour grapes, when discussing how big others pay packets are.

[Lapon]

Sure, and that’s absolutely fair enough. But does a casual person tell their mates they get paid nothing, when asked about how much money they can expect, if they were to choose that role? Of course they don’t. This little tangent has all the hallmarks of sour grapes, when discussing how big others pay packets are.

The tangent stems from an observation that QF short haul pay in particular seems to have FOs at 250-300k while comparing other operators bare base salary alone.

Either marke a comparison of both all in pays (near impossible as its individual) or compare bare basic, but mixing the two and making the comparison is a tad misleading...

And that itself began because someone from overseas was asking about Australian operators on this or another thread.

[soseg]

Compare the average fleet+rank pay.

The figure for 2019 FO 737 was AU$199,000

Today that would be significantly higher with the yearly pay scale increases.

I'd really be surprised if you found any 737 FO's averaging less than 65hrs, if not 70hrs per 28-day roster.

No chance you can get away on MGH of 53.4. You'll get nabbed on your AV days.

[aussieflyboy]

Compare the average fleet+rank pay.

The figure for 2019 FO 737 was AU$199,000

Today that would be significantly higher with the yearly pay scale increases.

I'd really be surprised if you found any 737 FO's averaging less than 65hrs, if not 70hrs per 28-day roster.

No chance you can get away on MGH of 53.4. You'll get nabbed on your AV days.

No offence but this sounds horrible. What would be the total Duty Hours for a 28 day period of 65+ flight hours? And number of days off?

[AerocatS2A]

Surely it depends on how the roster works in terms of short/long duties? My current (non-Qantas) short haul roster for 28 days is 73 hours and has 13 days off. If you fly the Tasman you hit 70 hours in just 10 days.

[framer]

I think we can get a rough idea of where the different salaries sit in relation to each other if we assume first year in rank pilots who are each doing 65 hours a month and take super and allowances and bonuses and salary sacrifice out of the equation.
I know that those things make a significant difference but calculating it like this provides an idea of what the difference likely is.

A QF Captain year one would take home after tax $179,106 AUD
A Jetconnect Captain year one would take home $134;618 NZD
A QF First Officer year one would take home $124,736 AUD
A Jetconnect First Officer year one would take home $81,152 NZD

I used the online tax office calculators to arrive at these take home figures after adding 11.6 hours pay to the QF base salary to bring them up to 65 hours. The QF pilots would most likely be taking advantage of salary sacrifice in order to lower the tax burden but still, it paints a picture of the relative differences.
To get an even better understanding of the difference I used a ‘cost of living comparison’ website with Sydney and Auckland selected and it said Jetconnect Captains would need an extra $20k NZD ( after tax) per annum to achieve the same lifestyle in Auckland as QF Captains. Jetconnect First Officers fare worse in that they would need an extra $27k NZD ( after tax ) to achieve the same standard of living as QF First Officers who live in Sydney.
Contrary to what an earlier poster said the cost of living in Sydney is higher than in Auckland ( according to this randomly selected website).
Also interesting to me was that a year 1 A320 F/O for Air New Zealand earns about $21k (after tax) more than a Jetconnect First Officer which puts them about $6k behind the standard of living the QF First Officers are achieving but at the same time I don’t know if the Air NZ pilots are earning more than that base at the 65 hour mark. They probably are in which case they would be achieving a similar standard of living to their QF counterparts.
One can only assume that the allowances, bonuses, super contributions,and salary sacrifice effects put QF further ahead in relation to New Zealand based pilots.

[ElZilcho]

At 65hrs an Air NZ Pilot would be doing around 107% of base, which for an A320 Pilot would be about right…. Big rosters come and go, so 5-10% on SH is about right on average. We have a balancing system in place, so you can’t just bid for Tasman/Pacific Is flying and smash out 80 hours in 12 days while your colleagues do 55 in 18 between AKL and WLG.

An 8th Year A320 FO, excluding allowances (as they’re too variable) would need to fly 70hr rosters year round to break $200k Taxable.

[framer]

Thanks Zilch.
So to fit into the scenario above, if a year 1 A320 First Officer flew 65 hrs a month for a year what would be their after tax salary excluding allowances/ bonuses/ super ?

[ADFUS]

This little tangent has all the hallmarks of sour grapes, when discussing how big others pay packets are.

Soseg came in here talking about how much QF pilots get paid.

I know that QF have farmed out a lot of the flying to various subsidiaries but has having a go at fellow pilots ever solved that problem?

You have a common enemy.

[ElZilcho]

Thanks Zilch.
So to fit into the scenario above, if a year 1 A320 First Officer flew 65 hrs a month for a year what would be their after tax salary excluding allowances/ bonuses/ super ?
​​​​
Around $151k Gross, $108k Net. That’s PAYE only, no KiwiSaver (super).
Air NZ will match Employee contributions up to 8%, the legal minimum is 3%.

[Lapon]

Cheers Framer and Elzilcho, puts a bit of perspective into the mix for a change (must admit the Air NZ thread also has good breakdowns) rather that the usual throwing around of abitary numbers.

Probably more more significant than expected overtime an allowances is the expected progression to command.
Thats a topic for another day but I believe it is/was pretty quick at Air NZ for the bus, and wouldn't be surprised if it was at JC too. That could shift the big picture pay analysis significantly.

[ElZilcho]

A320 Commands got as low as 5-6 years pre-COVID. They’re around 9-10 at the moment, along with 787 FO. I heard JC got as low as 2 years at one point. That in itself should be a massive red flag.
The way our pay structure works, and the fact we shot ourselves on the A321 rate has meant Longhaul FO is generally more lucrative for less time worked than a Junior Bus Command.

When comparing contracts, one definitely needs to have the whole picture. Overtime rates, thresholds, super, per diems, salary steps… it all adds up and can make a massive difference over one’s career.