Canada To Buy Up To 16 x P-8A

[RAFEngO74to09]

Boeing announcement

News Releases (mediaroom.com) (https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-releases-statements?item=131233)

[India Four Two]

... we are committed to delivering 100% Industrial and Technical Benefits that will significantly grow Canada’s aerospace and defense industry.”

What does that mean? Are they going to build them in Canada?

PS We have a "defence" industry in Canada, eh? ;)

[melmothtw]

What does that mean? Are they going to build them in Canada?

PS We have a "defence" industry in Canada, eh? ;)

No, they're not going to establish a new production line in Canada for 16 jets.

[BBadanov]

No, they're not going to establish a new production line in Canada for 16 jets.

Correct, of course they're not.
What the "Canada’s aerospace and defense industry” refers to is Boeing Canada doing deeper maintenance, perhaps even intermediate line servicing as probably the RCAF no longer have the capability.

[BBadanov]

If Canada were to obtain "up to 16 P-8As" - which I doubt, as they skimp on Defence spending - they would join the other 5-eyes Commonwealth countries: Australia 14 x P-8As, UK 9 x P-8As, and NZ 4 x P-8As. So it does make sense - numbers would be in doubt, probably 10?

[Davef68]

So Canada and Boeing are friends again? Or needs must, as there is no real alternative to P-8?

[melmothtw]

So Canada and Boeing are friends again? Or needs must, as there is no real alternative to P-8?

I'm surprised the Kawasaki P-1 isn't getting a look-in in any of these competitions, to be honest, but with every other 5-Eyes ally operating/ordering it, it was perhaps the only logical choice for Canada also.

[sandiego89]

Sounds more like the usual Canadian dithering, putting their toes in the water, sorta-committing....not-committing, see what we can get out of it with big-numbers, then finally decide to get a few....all while their planes fall out of the air.....

[henra]

I'm surprised the Kawasaki P-1 isn't getting a look-in in any of these competitions, to be honest, but with every other 5-Eyes ally operating/ordering it, it was perhaps the only logical choice for Canada also.
In Germany the P-1 was briefly in discussion but it seems even the manuals weren't yet available in English and it was considered to high of a risk from an overall Program perspective (set up Maintenance/Training/Support/continued development and everthing around it) while being technically indeed quite interesting.

[Asturias56]

Sounds more like the usual Canadian dithering, putting their toes in the water, sorta-committing....not-committing, see what we can get out of it with big-numbers, then finally decide to get a few....all while their planes fall out of the air.....


sounds liek the Brits - start with a need, move it to an "aspiration", buy a few, defer or cancel some of those......................

[SLXOwft]

The US State Department has now notified Congress of the potential sale. If they buy the full 16 that would be one more that the current CP-140s

WASHINGTON, June 27, 2023 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Canada of P-8A Aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of $5.9 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of Canada has requested to buy up to sixteen (16) P-8A Patrol Aircraft (...)


https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/canada-p-8a-aircraft

[rattman]

In Germany the P-1 was briefly in discussion but it seems even the manuals weren't yet available in English and it was considered to high of a risk from an overall Program perspective (set up Maintenance/Training/Support/continued development and everthing around it) while being technically indeed quite interesting.

I believe that Japanese defence contractors / government dont have any flexibility. It came up with the possible purchase of Soryu class subs by Australia. A few examples I have seen mentioned, Japan wouldn't give details of specification and capabilities until the contract was signed. Japan was unwilling / unable to do anything locally. It even talk a substantial amount of negoiation to get even basic maintainence done in aus. They would change or adapt the subs they were as designed, Australian subs are mixed sex crews, japanes aren't they were unwilling to do any mods to account for mixed sex crews.

That attitude is changing as Japanese defence contractors get more experience, but it seems to be a real thing

[Lonewolf_50]

On the bright side, the NATO interoperability bit is helped by this choice.
Grats to the Canadian forces, let's hope they get the whole.

As to "will the whole lot get picked up?" ...
... I was hoping the USAF would get the whole lot of F-22's but that buy got cut substantially.
I was hoping the USAF would get the original 180 or so C-17's ... but that buy got cut.
The B-2 IIRC was originally going to be substantially more than the 20 ish that got purchased.
The F-15X numbers have shrunk at least once.
And so on ...

[tdracer]

On the bright side, the NATO interoperability bit is helped by this choice.
Grats to the Canadian forces, let's hope they get the whole.

As to "will the whole lot get picked up?" ...
I was hoping the USAF would get the original 180 or so C-17's ... but that buy got cut.

Not to nit-pick, but the USAF actually bought more than the original 180 C-17s - over 220 in fact (although IIRC the rate was somewhat slower than originally planned).

[chevvron]

You forget there are dozens of '737s on the Boeing lot just waiting for a buyer.

[Video Mixdown]

You forget there are dozens of '737s on the Boeing lot just waiting for a buyer.
A P-8 is built as a P-8. It is not a modified commercial 737.

[tdracer]

A P-8 is built as a P-8. It is not a modified commercial 737.
Exactly - the P-8s come off a dedicated (ITAR Controlled) final assembly line.
Plus, the P-8 is based on the 737NG, not the MAX.

[rigpiggy]

I would have preferred that it went to an rfp tender. could not 24 global 6500 with the swordfish MPA mod not have been built in canada?

[Big Pistons Forever]

There are many reasons that the Global MPA is unsuited for Canada starting with the requirement to carry external stores. Nevertheless I am sure that is what the RCAF will, eventually, after a painfully drawn out process get. This is going to be just like the Buffalo replacement. Late, dramatically over budget, and not fit for purpose....

Sadly Canada has learned nothing from the disastrous Cyclone helicopter procurement.

[BBadanov]

The RCAF order for the P-8A is logical and sensible. Poseidon operators include USN, RAAF, RNZAF and RAF - and some NATO allies.
Really - like JSF - the only show in town. The P-1 may be capable, if anyone can decipher the Japanese specs, but how interoperable?

[pr00ne]

The RCAF order for the P-8A is logical and sensible. Poseidon operators include USN, RAAF, RNZAF and RAF - and some NATO allies.
Really - like JSF - the only show in town. The P-1 may be capable, if anyone can decipher the Japanese specs, but how interoperable?

There is no order as yet. Just a potential requirement.

[Video Mixdown]

There is no order as yet. Just a potential requirement.
​​​​​I did a double-take when a picture of a P-8 in Canadian markings appeared in a news report about the Titan SAR effort. Some journalist must have stumbled across a Boeing visualisation.

[Asturias56]

There is no order as yet. Just a potential requirement.

is a "potential Requirement " better or worse than "an aspiration"?

We need a regulated set of weasel words on here

[Video Mixdown]

is a "potential Requirement " better or worse than "an aspiration"?
We need a regulated set of weasel words on here
The terms are used by people who live in the real world and know these decisions are always complex and difficult. The weasel words are used by those who only offer shallow and simplistic criticism.

[Asturias56]

So - every politician I guess......................

We al know how the size of orders declines steadily the closer you get to actually buying - and even afterwards.

The cynical factor that in when they hear the original statements but the hopeful always feel betrayed as the number of platforms reduces year by year :(

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/11/30/canada-to-buy-boeing-made-poseidons-in-59-billion-deal/

VICTORIA, British Columbia — The Canadian military will start receiving in 2026 Boeing-made P-8A Poseidons it is buying through a deal worth $5.9 billion.

Canadian cabinet ministers, including Defence Minister Bill Blair, made the official announcement Thursday, but defense observers had long expected it after Canada earlier this year requested from the U.S. pricing on the P-8.

Canada will initially acquire 14 of the planes with the option to buy two additional P-8s at a later date.

Blair said the aircraft should be all delivered by the fall of 2027 and the fleet fully operational by 2033.

The P-8A will replace Canada’s current maritime patrol aircraft, the CP-140 Aurora, which has been in service for more than 40 years.

[grizzled]

. Sadly Canada has learned nothing from the disastrous Cyclone helicopter procurement.

And the Victoria (Upholder) class submarines before that. And so many others. ad nauseum...

[rattman]

And the Victoria (Upholder) class submarines before that. And so many others. ad nauseum...


They have made 3 well thought out and reasonable defence discissions this year (F-35, MRTT and P-8's)

[pr00ne]

Does EVERYONE who orders the P-8 order more than the RAF?

[Asturias56]

"Blair said the aircraft should be all delivered by the fall of 2027 and the fleet fully operational by 2033."

The UK lack of orders is really a disgrace

[Roland Pulfrew]

Does EVERYONE who orders the P-8 order more than the RAF?

RNZAF? To be fair, it wasn’t the RAF who ordered the P-8, it was Strat Com (nee JFC).

[typerated]

RNZAF? To be fair, it wasn’t the RAF who ordered the P-8, it was Strat Com (nee JFC).

Only just has the UK ordered more!

and bizarrely does not have many more T-6 Texans than the RNZAF - when you compare the size of the force

[Big Pistons Forever]

My understanding is the firm commitment is for only 8 airframes. Given the history of CAF procurement that is almost certainly the total. So 8 P8's to replace 16 P3's. Yup that sounds about right :ugh::rolleyes:

[Bksmithca]

My understanding is the firm commitment is for only 8 airframes. Given the history of CAF procurement that is almost certainly the total. So 8 P8's to replace 16 P3's. Yup that sounds about right :ugh::rolleyes:
Big Pistons, do you have a link to an article that states 8 frames? Everything I've see says up to sixteen frames
BK

[Not Long Here]

14 +2
Canadian P-8 Deal Report (https://breakingdefense.com/2023/11/canada-finalizes-5-9-billion-p-8-poseidon-deal/)

[Asturias56]

"The deal, worth $5.9 billion USD, will cover 14 P-8A aircraft while leaving an option to purchase two more. Notably, the Canadian announcement cites an “estimated investment in this project” of $10.4 billion CAD, which is $7.7 billion USD. The gap between the price of the planes themselves and the overall project is likely tied to infrastructure investments which will be needed to host the new planes."

[pr00ne]

RNZAF? To be fair, it wasn’t the RAF who ordered the P-8, it was Strat Com (nee JFC).

No it wasn’t, it was Defence Equipment and Support on behalf of the RAF, overseen and supervised by very senior RAF officers.