WN Pilot Gets Sick, Replaced by Revenue Passenger Who is NetJet Pilot

[Lake1952]

The 737 returned to it origin, LAS, after being airborne 1H20M. The Captain fell ill at some point after departure and apparently left the cockpit. A deadheading pilot who was apparently a revenue passenger on the flight to CMH was permitted to enter the cockpit to replace the stricken pilot. The passenger pilot was apparently in uniform and several reports state he was a pilot for NetJets, which has a large base in CMH. The pinch hitting pilot reportedly handled radio communications. No idea what type ratings the passenger pilot possessed.

What are the policies that need or should be followed in this situation? How many FOs would have done what they’re trained to do... get the plane safely on the ground... without inviting a pilot from another company into the cockpit? Obviously, being in uniform with his ID lanyard added to the comfort level. Not criticizing anything...just exploring the policies that govern this type of situation.

The flight : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA6013/history/20230322/1350Z/KLAS/KLAS

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/23/us/southwest-airlines-off-duty-pilot-steps-in-medical-emergency/index.html

[Central Scrutinizer]

If I was the FO I would have done the same thing. There's a fellow professional pilot on board the plane, might as well use him to help relieve the workload during the emergency. The other guy may not be rated on the 737 but he can surely handle the radio, monitor the navigation and performance, liase with the cabin crew etc. while letting the FO fly the plane.

I know where the question is coming from: what if something "bad" happens once the "foreign" pilot is in the cockpit? what if the "foreign" pilot is more of a distraction than an aid? what if something "bad" happens completely unrelated to the presence of this foreign pilot in the cockpit? will anybody recriminate the FO for letting the guy into the cockpit in such a case?
It's kind of a sick sign of our times that we have to think about this due to fear of consequences because of deviating from the official procedure when thinking outside the box. Pretty sure nobody would have questioned this in the pre-9/11 era.

Obviously, being in uniform with his ID lanyard added to the comfort level.
Why should this make any difference? Anyone can wear a uniform and a lanyard.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Doesn't "ID lanyard" at least imply he had ID? The guy came through security, and came through the gate in uniform.

[Lake1952]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the legitimacy of the passenger pilot. . He obviously didn't know the Captain was going to become incapacitated by illness... but just curious what published policies, if any, do the companies have in this eventuality. Obviously, letting someone take a front row seat in the cockpit who is not an employee of the company is a significant decision.

[Concours77]

It is at least possible the FO was a bit queasy as well, and single pilot/no pilot had crossed his mind. If so, he was likely relieved to find an aviator with some skills should he himself become incapacitated. Happened to my uncle on the B29. All three crew ate the pork sandwich before taking off from Tinian. Luckily uncle was at least able to return, though he had to navigate with a windshield full of projectile vomit...

[pilotmike]

The layout and operation of most things - including nav, instruments, radios / audio box / door lock / unlock, levers, handles, etc - are usually very different from type to type, unless from same family, eg, Airbus, Boeing. Any extra pilot introduced to the flight deck is very likely to wish to 'assist' with aspects of the operation of the aircraft, but should resist doing so without explicit permission from the remaining FO, who is now briefly promoted to Captain of the aircraft by definition.

Needing to ask / be asked to touch anything seems a longwinded way to assist the FO new Captain operating the aircraft - an aircraft which they should be highly familiar operating. In any case, the FO newly promoted Captain should have demonstrated their capability to operate single-pilot in just such a case of emergency.

The likelihood of much similarity between any type the Net Jets pilot was rated on the the 737 is extremely low. In my view having another non type-rated pilot is likely to be more of a problem and distraction than offsetting any benefit from any assistance afforded.

Having a known (company) Cabin crew up front to assist with reading checklists is less risky and probably all the help any competent FO should require. They would be less likely to try to 'assist' without being asked. And that way there is no risk of breaking any rules, and minimal risk of additional problems being brought into a busy flight deck.

[Lake1952]

Well, details are certainly sketchy and every article seems to be quoting the same news service source. Was the passenger pilot an air carrier pilot or charter bizjet pilot as some reports have stated? Air carrier pilots are at least guaranteed to be ATPs. A first officer on a charter jet service does not necessarily have an ATP or even a type rating for the jet in which that he sits in the right hand seat. Perhaps most FOs have that type rating but I don't believe the FAA requires it.

Hopefully more details will emerge.

[pattern_is_full]

1) "Captain" is a rank. "Pilot In Command" (PIC) is a cockpit function. In this case, the FO remained the FO (rank - he did not magically grow another bar on his epaulets) but took over the function of, and became, PIC. As expected.

2) In the USA at least (but probably other jurisdictions), the FAA reg on PIC functions and duties includes:

14 CFR 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command
.....
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency (also known as the "Get out of jail free" card).

However....(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b ) of this section shall, upon the request of the (FAA) Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator. (Since the FAA is investigating, I assume the "written report to the Administrator" will be subsumed in that investigation. Tea with biscuits.)

3) As to the company reaction to this situation, it was expressed by a SWA spokesman in the CNN story linked to in the original post: “A credentialed Pilot from another airline, who was on board, entered the Flight Deck and assisted with radio communication while our Southwest Pilot flew the aircraft,” said airline spokesperson Chris Perry. “We greatly appreciate their support and assistance.”

4) Since radio communication was the sole role delegated to the assisting pilot AFAWK, we need not consider whether that pilot was familar with any other part of the 737 systems.

5) NetJets' (if that connection is accurate) fleet includes everything from Phenom 300s to Global 6000s. Best not to make too many assumptions about the assisting pilot's skill level.

Molehills > Mountains. ;)

[B2N2]

Well, details are certainly sketchy and every article seems to be quoting the same news service source. Was the passenger pilot an air carrier pilot or charter bizjet pilot as some reports have stated? Air carrier pilots are at least guaranteed to be ATPs. A first officer on a charter jet service does not necessarily have an ATP or even a type rating for the jet in which that he sits in the right hand seat. Perhaps most FOs have that type rating but I don't believe the FAA requires it.

Hopefully more details will emerge.

You are incorrect.
The large 135 Charter compagnies have hiring requirements similar to ‘regular’ airlines and both pilots will have a PIC type rating.
Contrary to European pilots American pilots generally have several type ratings.
The ‘passenger pilot’ may have had a 737 type rating.
Netjets FO requirements:

FAA ATP, Restricted ATP, or meet the requirements for FAA ATP or Restricted ATP (R-ATP) certificate with multi-engine rating as follows (IAW 61.160):
At least 21 years of age

1,500 hours total flight time experience or
1,250 hours with appropriate university R-ATP certificate or
1,000 hours with military pilot qualification or
1,000 hours with appropriate university R-ATP certificate

[megan]

All three crew ate the pork sandwich before taking off from Tinian. Luckily uncle was at least able to return, though he had to navigate with a windshield full of projectile vomitBit hard to cover the windscreen of a B-29 with vomit, projectile or not, you'd need a bucket full of the stuff and mop to accomplish the task.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x667/1000w_q95_ad791b7bbdd3acdcf21277c6df3d8c7823724ad4.jpg

[Concours77]

Heard Ed tell the story fifty years ago. Must have been "instruments". Captain Ed Cutler, "Texas Doll"...

[pilotmike]

Happened to my uncle on the B29. All three crew ate the pork sandwich before taking off from Tinian. Luckily uncle was at least able to return, though he had to navigate with a windshield full of projectile vomit...
What an entertaining story from Concours77! Turns out it was just that.... a story, a load of porkies spewed out in the hope they'd stick!

[Central Scrutinizer]

In my view having another non type-rated pilot is likely to be more of a problem and distraction than offsetting any benefit from any assistance afforded.

I respectfully disagree; that's a very pessimistic view and assumption in my opinion.
The "alien" pilot could help with everything that has nothing to do with the aircraft itself. If the guy has good CRM skills he'll know his limitations, he'll know that he doesn't know the type, and he'll assist in those areas where knowing the type is not needed.

[Concours77]

I respectfully disagree; that's a very pessimistic view and assumption in my opinion.The "alien" pilot could help with everything that has nothing to do with the aircraft itself. If the guy has good CRM skills he'll know his limitations, he'll know that he doesn't know the type, and he'll assist in those areas where knowing the type is not needed. ​​​​​​​Quite agree... everything here is opinion.​​​​​​​Command shifted to FO. His judgment, his call. Nothing burger.

[India Four Two]

Luckily uncle was at least able to return, though he had to navigate with a windshield full of projectile vomit...

This is the first time in over 20 years of PPRuNeing, that a post has put me off my food! ;)

[Check Airman]

Having a known (company) Cabin crew up front to assist with reading checklists is less risky and probably all the help any competent FO should require. They would be less likely to try to 'assist' without being asked. And that way there is no risk of breaking any rules, and minimal risk of additional problems being brought into a busy flight deck.

With the greatest respect to cabin crew, no way. Unless said FA has significant aviation training (ie. well along the way to sitting in an airline cockpit), give me a professional pilot on another type any day. He/She will at least be thinking along similar lines.

[NWSRG]

Folks, SLF here. So I can't discuss the regulations. And, I can't comment on the 'differences' that might prevent a non type-qualified pilot from assisting with the operation of another type.

But for Pete's sake, is it not a perfectly reasonable decision to accept the assistance of another professional aviator during an emergency? It probably saved many lives on a DC10 in Sioux City many years ago!

The FO showed an admirable quality, which is sadly in short supply these days...discretion! The poor chap was probably glad to have another professional alongside, and in turn, his own confidence in safely dealing with the situation probably increased significantly once his new buddy appeared in the cockpit. Do we really want a FO to say "Sorry, no...you're not company or type-rated, so please just sit tight...but send me a hostie."

As a passenger, seeing a captain stagger out of the cockpit, I would have been comforted seeing the NetJet guy step up...and I know that the FO should be able to cope alone. But why would you throw away that assistance?

And while in this case, it seems the flying was (absolutely correctly) left to the FO, I would hope that any professional aviator could make a damn good effort at flying any airliner in an emergency...we'll not ask him/her to programme the FMC, just hand fly the thing to a suitable runway!

[fdr]

Kudos to the FO, pretty sure if the PIC was still awake he would have endorsed the action, after all, that is the result of 27 years of pushing the concept of resource management and risk mitigation. Any netjet pilot should be able to support in a B73, even any of the other more advanced designs, they can read a checklist, cross check, and set radio freqs, or monitor the flight while the FO sets up his FMC.

[RichardJones]

In my day we had a thing called C.R.M. Cockpit Resource Management. Bringing someone into help, is just that.

[212man]

is it not a perfectly reasonable decision to accept the assistance of another professional aviator during an emergency? It probably saved many lives on a DC10 in Sioux City many years ago!

Denny Fitch was a DC-10 Training Captain, and had practiced using the throttles for control in the simulator, so a slightly different scenario to just another pilot.

[EEngr]

If I recall correctly, there was a B-1B pilot who offered his assistance on a commercial flight some years ago when the captain became incapacitated.

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

I think the netjet pilot would be more under the microscope if he had declined to go into the cockpit, unless he had eaten the fish.

[Euclideanplane]

Or if he had acquired a drinking problem due to flashbacks of air-to-air combat

[421dog]

Many, many years ago, I used to occasionally fly either Perimeter or Air Manitoba from YWG to YGO. While I had a Canadian CPL, they didn’t ever actually check that. It didn’t stop me from sitting left seat in a bunch of metros and C-47s while the captain napped in row 1 for the first hour or so of the flight..

[MissChief]

FO was bang to rights. Use the other guy to do radios and to monitor the essentials such as fuel, navigation, adherence to ATC instructions and to the STAR, along with flight parameters. LAS can be a tricky place to get into at the best of times, although a Mayday would ease things greatly.