DEFO Interview

[HES1998]

Hi,

Anyone able to share some recent interview feedback with Cathay ?

[SabrinaSenior]

Hi,

Anyone able to share some recent interview feedback with Cathay ?

q1: do you have a pulse?
q2: can you warm a seat?
q3: welcome to Cathay Pacific.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Hi,

Anyone able to share some recent interview feedback with Cathay ?

I don’t want to discourage you from taking the job, but I think you might need a bit of a reality check.

Yes, CX is an excellent gateway to get experience in wide body jets but is it really worth the crap they throw at you? If you have been following this forum, I’ll summarise what you should expect for you and your family:

Pay - Enough to Survive but not enough to enjoy life and take holidays. After paying taxes, school fees, groceries, utilities etc…. You will not be saving any money

Taxes - You’ll have to save to pay the IRD approximately 15% of your total income, this includes approx 15% of the school allowance and pilot allowance.

Schooling - Apart from the initial $5,000 per month, per child. If the schooling is more (which is guaranteed) they’ll happily give you another $3300 per month, provided you furnish a receipt and be paid in arrears. Oh, and that is taxed as well. Expect school fees to run you about $12,000 per month.

Accommodation - Welcome to Lantau Island! For what an FO1 can afford, You can live in a cockroach infested 700 sqft apartment (rooms no bigger that a jail cell) with a ****ty landlord that doesn’t fix anything and wants you, at the end of your lease to return the apartment in better condition than when you took possession. The silver lining is, you can choose one of 3 location, Discovery Bay, Tung Chung or South Lantau.

Medical - Apart from the abysmal private coverage (very low limits) and the conditions that come with it (I.e no private hospital coverage between 6am-6pm), you will have no option but to attend a public hospital, which, have a habit of mis-diagnosis.

Did you fall and fracture a finger while at an outport on duty? The company will cover your medical costs. But they will deduct the “hypothetical” cost from your already low private medical coverage in HK. Yes they will use your medical in HK to recoup some of their expenses.

[Gaisha]

I don’t want to discourage you from taking the job, but I think you might need a bit of a reality check.

Yes, CX is an excellent gateway to get experience in wide body jets but is it really worth the crap they throw at you? If you have been following this forum, I’ll summarise what you should expect for you and your family:

Pay - Enough to Survive but not enough to enjoy life and take holidays. After paying taxes, school fees, groceries, utilities etc…. You will not be saving any money

Taxes - You’ll have to save to pay the IRD approximately 15% of your total income, this includes approx 15% of the school allowance and pilot allowance.

Schooling - Apart from the initial $5,000 per month, per child. If the schooling is more (which is guaranteed) they’ll happily give you another $3300 per month, provided you furnish a receipt and be paid in arrears. Oh, and that is taxed as well. Expect school fees to run you about $12,000 per month.

Accommodation - Welcome to Lantau Island! For what an FO1 can afford, You can live in a cockroach infested 700 sqft apartment (rooms no bigger that a jail cell) with a ****ty landlord that doesn’t fix anything and wants you, at the end of your lease to return the apartment in better condition than when you took possession. The silver lining is, you can choose one of 3 location, Discovery Bay, Tung Chung or South Lantau.

Medical - Apart from the abysmal private coverage (very low limits) and the conditions that come with it (I.e no private hospital coverage between 6am-6pm), you will have no option but to attend a public hospital, which, have a habit of mis-diagnosis.

Did you fall and fracture a finger while at an outport on duty? The company will cover your medical costs. But they will deduct the “hypothetical” cost from your already low private medical coverage in HK. Yes they will use your medical in HK to recoup some of their expenses.


this is accurate. The terms have eroded so far from what they were that you have to be desperate to take this job. Once the novelty wears off of working for what once was an amazing legacy airline … reality sets in and bites hard. COS18 is a single persons contract … if you plan coming with a family ( or a wife that doesn’t work) , you’ll find it very hard to manage. The SO’s are the worst off … been sitting around 6 years with nowhere else to go.. and pushed back further with desperate DEFO’s joining.

[nicoli]

I get the frustration and annoyance that the salary got drastically reduced,

but :

- where are you guys coming from complaining about paying taxes ? And 15% is relatively low worldwide

- Where are you going on holidays ? 5 stars palace in Bali ?

- How old are you to have your partner idling at home ? In 2023 it’s kinda normal that both have steady job

- You can’t complain about paying tax and getting a limited medical coverage otherwise France is the exemple to follow with 40% tax rate

[BuzzBox]

Taxes - You’ll have to save to pay the IRD approximately 15% of your total income, this includes approx 15% of the school allowance and pilot allowance.

Bear in mind that you'll have to pay double that for the first year, because you will be charged tax on the amount you have earned, plus the same again in provisional tax for the following year. And there's no PAYG tax, so you need to put some aside each month to pay for the tax bill when it eventually arrives. If you don't have enough to pay the bill, you'll need to arrange a tax loan from one of the banks.

[RAT Management]

Bear in mind that you'll have to pay double that for the first year, because you will be charged tax on the amount you have earned, plus the same again in provisional tax for the following year. And there's no PAYG tax, so you need to put some aside each month to pay for the tax bill when it eventually arrives. If you don't have enough to pay the bill, you'll need to arrange a tax loan from one of the banks.
Public finance bank calls me all the time if I need money? So getting a loan is really easy. Come on over. The more the merrier!

[Babyjet_dododo]

I get the frustration and annoyance that the salary got drastically reduced,

but :

- where are you guys coming from complaining about paying taxes ? And 15% is relatively low worldwide

- Where are you going on holidays ? 5 stars palace in Bali ?

- How old are you to have your partner idling at home ? In 2023 it’s kinda normal that both have steady job

- You can’t complain about paying tax and getting a limited medical coverage otherwise France is the exemple to follow with 40% tax rate

15% is low comparatively to other states, but that is usually offset by the cost of living in HK. For example a 3 bedroom 700sq ft apartment will set you back about $3000USD, the short fall in education as well is about $500 USD per month per child. And this is for an average international school. Also, you’ll need to cover extra curricular activities for the kids.

Partners - Unless they are specialised in a certain skill set (teacher, the medical field, CPA, finance etc) they will struggle to find employment in HK, as most jobs now require you to fluent in Mandarin/Canto.

Company provided medical coverage is very low with multiple caveats and Medical costs in HK are astronomical. The public system, as I said, often mis-diagnose symptoms so chances are a person is not getting proper treatment, you will NEED extra coverage for a family of four, that’ll run you about $250 USD a month to get adequate cover.

The take home pay is $9000 USD gross for a FO1, so let’s do the maths for a family of four.

Tax* - $1350 USD per month
*Company currently paying a crew’s US tax if you operate in US airspace but they can change this policy at anytime, and they will require you to pay your own US taxes

Accommodation - $3000 USD per month

Utilities- $300 USD per month

Groceries- $1500 USD a month (and that is on the low end)

Transport - $100 USD a month

Medical coverage - $250 USD a month

Schooling - $1000 USD a month

School Bus - $160 per child per month

Extra Curricular - $700 per month (2 activities per child).

Total: $8520 USD

Total savings is: $480 USD per month

This is not an exaggeration of the costs. It’s the reality of living in HK

Maybe if you save for a year without any unexpected expenses, you might have enough money to holiday somewhere like Japan for 5 nights.

There is a website that compares the cost of living in France to HK.

Here is a summary from a website that compares living expenses:

”Consumer Prices in Hong Kong are 1.3% lower than in Paris(without rent)
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Hong Kong are 16.5%higher than in Paris
Rent Prices in Hong Kong are 50.7% higher than in Paris
Restaurant Prices in Hong Kong are 24.3% lower than in Paris
Groceries Prices in Hong Kong are 7.2% higher than in Paris”

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Assuming you meet both airlines’ criteria; anyone who chooses CX over EK, frankly, needs to have their medical revoked.

[Backupnav]

HES1998
Do not listen too much what people are saying on here. I mean, yes, do read, but also do your homework and own research.
I loved my time in HK and with CX. I moved on a while ago now, but gosh, had I read what people were saying 12 years ago, I would have never joined, and made a big mistake. Granted, the flying is not the most exciting (I hope you do not mind losing a few nights sleep every month starring at a dark windscreen). Taxes are low. Full stop. Yes, it is high compared to... the sand box. wow, great comparison! :rolleyes: Some people really need a reality check and see what happens elsewhere. Education is expensive, but the company will help you out. You will be making a lot of money with CX, and if you are not the biggest spender in town and you have a tad of wisdom (which I would expect since you are in this field of work), you will be saving quite a bit too. HK is a vibrant city. True, it has changed, but what has not? Live your life, enjoy the ride.

[Babyjet_dododo]

HES1998
Do not listen too much what people are saying on here. I mean, yes, do read, but also do your homework and own research.
I loved my time in HK and with CX. I moved on a while ago now, but gosh, had I read what people were saying 12 years ago, I would have never joined, and made a big mistake. Granted, the flying is not the most exciting (I hope you do not mind losing a few nights sleep every month starring at a dark windscreen). Taxes are low. Full stop. Yes, it is high compared to... the sand box. wow, great comparison! :rolleyes: Some people really need a reality check and see what happens elsewhere. Education is expensive, but the company will help you out. You will be making a lot of money with CX, and if you are not the biggest spender in town and you have a tad of wisdom (which I would expect since you are in this field of work), you will be saving quite a bit too. HK is a vibrant city. True, it has changed, but what has not? Live your life, enjoy the ride.

Hmmmmm… If working under cos18 was as good as you like to put it, we would not have lost 000’s of pilots. Go speak to the most frugal of spenders, they couldn’t save as well and moved on.

[magenta magnet]

Total savings is: $480 USD per month

Family of 4 surely has to have the wife working, in any country she would be working to supplement the husbands income.
On the low ball scale lets say she brings in $2,000pm.

1) With wife working a low income job, family now saving $2,480pm (that's excellent and well above most people)

2) Single chap would also save more than +$2,500pm (again excellent and well above most)

Of course we all want more money and would love to jump ship because we see other peoples Instagram posts on how wonderful their life is, but it's really never greener on the other side, it's all a lie. And with regards to Emiratres, my gosh I would rather pull my toe nails out than live in a hot dusty desert with an axe over your head if you make a mistake (HK is no where near as bad as the Arabian peninsular is) HK is seriously fun, yes times change and it was always better in the old n days. The 80's and 90's were great, it's different now but still amazing and fun.

PS: Don't ever get involved with company politics, all companies are run by cesspool management, EK is no different.

[pill]

Yes, but do you move to another mans country to just keep your head above water? We used to join cx to get ahead.

[Sea Eggs]

Can someone please post the salary of a Delta wide-body captain?

[cxflog]

Can someone please post the salary of a Delta wide-body captain?
No point as anyone joining CX right now wouldn’t have the right to employment in the US, otherwise that’s where they’d be.

[Air Profit]

About $450 k. Upwards of $750 k possible

[Zi Peng]

Not worth it but then depends on the options available. Defo not a career airline anymore. I made a bit of money on cos 08 as an FO, not anymore and it is a fact. Your wife must work and must have a decent job in a western environment or she will be working like a slave 7 days leave per year. For minimum pay. HK is one of the most expensive city in the world so that 9000 US are not the same 9000 US as in Texas.

[HoldenCaufield]

HES1998
Do not listen too much what people are saying on here. I mean, yes, do read, but also do your homework and own research.
I loved my time in HK and with CX. I moved on a while ago now, but gosh, had I read what people were saying 12 years ago, I would have never joined, and made a big mistake. Granted, the flying is not the most exciting (I hope you do not mind losing a few nights sleep every month starring at a dark windscreen). Taxes are low. Full stop. Yes, it is high compared to... the sand box. wow, great comparison! :rolleyes: Some people really need a reality check and see what happens elsewhere. Education is expensive, but the company will help you out. You will be making a lot of money with CX, and if you are not the biggest spender in town and you have a tad of wisdom (which I would expect since you are in this field of work), you will be saving quite a bit too. HK is a vibrant city. True, it has changed, but what has not? Live your life, enjoy the ride.

When was ‘a while ago now’? Is it the 80’s or the 90’s you are waxing lyrical about.

[ZootBoot]

Family of 4 surely has to have the wife working, in any country she would be working to supplement the husbands income.
On the low ball scale lets say she brings in $2,000pm.
nt.

Lowball? Cabin crew earn half of this per month.

Your wife could potentially earn this much per month, but her Onlyfans would need a steady and established following prior to coming to HK. I wouldn't rely on trying to 'build her subscription base' after you get here or you will just go backwards.

[Rie]

Lowball? Cabin crew earn half of this per month.

Your wife could potentially earn this much per month, but her Onlyfans would need a steady and established following prior to coming to HK. I wouldn't rely on trying to 'build her subscription base' after you get here or you will just go backwards.

I believe we used to have an SO that was well versed in the adult industry. Too bad he isn’t around anymore as he would have been able to give out some pointers.

[controlledrest]

HES1998
Do not listen too much what people are saying on here. I mean, yes, do read, but also do your homework and own research.
I loved my time in HK and with CX. I moved on a while ago now, but gosh, had I read what people were saying 12 years ago, I would have never joined, and made a big mistake. Granted, the flying is not the most exciting (I hope you do not mind losing a few nights sleep every month starring at a dark windscreen). Taxes are low. Full stop. Yes, it is high compared to... the sand box. wow, great comparison! :rolleyes: Some people really need a reality check and see what happens elsewhere. Education is expensive, but the company will help you out. You will be making a lot of money with CX, and if you are not the biggest spender in town and you have a tad of wisdom (which I would expect since you are in this field of work), you will be saving quite a bit too. HK is a vibrant city. True, it has changed, but what has not? Live your life, enjoy the ride.

Backupnav, the company (Cathay Pacific) you worked for no longer exists and your post is irrelevant to the new company (Cathay). The managers have changed more than just the name. COS18 forced a 40 - 60% pay cut on us. We no longer have a contract, everything is company policy. Seniority doesn't exist. We have gone from 4000 to 2400 pilots - for good reason, and its not due to covid.

[swh]

About $450 k. Upwards of $750 k possible

not a bad monthly wage.

[ThrustAssymComp]

Tax is 17% now

[Gordomac]

Sabrina; in 1978 I was asked if I played Badminton. Later,(1985) I was asked why the Centre of Pressure moved as angle of attack changed and why ( I failed). Later,(1994),I was asked about EPR engines how to increase the RTOW ( I failed. Later told by CX Vets that reducing EPR resulted in higher RTOW-/- Still don't get it.

Later, I found out why I would never get into CX and stopped trying.

Latest questions you pose look very straightforward.

[Lawrance]

Since this conversation is drifting again in the direction where it is not suppose to, let me ask if anyone of you can recommend LPJ for an online psychometric test? If there is anyone who is willing to sell membership I am willing to buy it. Any other advices relevant to subject are highly appreciated.

[Oasis]

Sabrina; in 1978 I was asked if I played Badminton. Later,(1985) I was asked why the Centre of Pressure moved as angle of attack changed and why ( I failed). Later,(1994),I was asked about EPR engines how to increase the RTOW ( I failed. Later told by CX Vets that reducing EPR resulted in higher RTOW-/- Still don't get it.

Later, I found out why I would never get into CX and stopped trying.

Latest questions you pose look very straightforward.

"how to pass your Cathay Interview by captain X,Y and Z" had that answer about the EPR. Can't remember now haha

[Sea Eggs]

No point as anyone joining CX right now wouldn’t have the right to employment in the US, otherwise that’s where they’d be.

It appears that you have a problem with English comprehension. That wasn't what I asked.

[cxflog]

It appears that you have a problem with English comprehension. That wasn't what I asked.
It appears you also lack said English comprehension as you’re asking for Delta pay rates on a thread about a CX DEFO interview.

You know, glass houses and all…

[HES1998]

27 replies and nothing about the topic. Can anyone actually post something regarding the interview?

[pill]

I'm pretty sure the first reply covered it. If you don't feel it's going well, drop at alphabet club card. Suspect that trumps everything. Good luck.

[Rie]

27 replies and nothing about the topic. Can anyone actually post something regarding the interview?
feel like a spoon feeding? If so you'll be one of the ones that can't hack training. Never heard of LPJ? maybe go there.

[Gordomac]

Oasis; Thanks. I'll try to get hold of the book because the notion disturbs me to date . Even tried reducing power in m y Beemur to get full load up to the picnic area. Didn't work. Two walked and a few kids were furious.

For those missing the point about thread drift. That is the point.CX i,very sadly, no longer the airline of choice for professional pilots and was exceptionally difficult to get into. The thread drift is, amusingly, demonstrating that it is no big deal anymore.

Also, What is the point in prepping for selection interviews/tests ? If you have read the book about how to pass the interview, practiced likely scenarios in a sim hired jointly by others others (loads did that !), got all the answers to the dreaded "Tech Quiz" and practiced over at least ten of them, you are demonstrating excellent desire but Selection teams prefer unrehearsed candidates. It gives a better picture of likely success.

Having served on Selection Boards, we were all unimpressed with those, clearly practiced or had the answers. During my schooling, it was called cheating.

If you really are what they want and they are really what you want, you will probably get in.

[Sea Eggs]

It appears you also lack said English comprehension as you’re asking for Delta pay rates on a thread about a CX DEFO interview.

You know, glass houses and all…

Yes, I asked the question and it was intentional. Potential applicants from the US may not be aware of the differences in remuneration. Hence I asked.

If you are an American working for a major in the US, I am happy for you. Let's hope you guys can set the standards for the rest of the world.

[Bekol delay]

Gordomac, if you are Vmcg limited then derating thrust can allow a lower Vmcg, a lower V1, and a higher RTOW. Doesn't work with your Beemur as that doesn't have to still get up the hill with an engine failure.

[Gordomac]

BEkol; Thanks. Drifting off a bit but thought I would express thanks. Taken 20 years for someone to explain so succinctly. Where were you when we needed real "Trainers" ?

[cfmoverboost]

not a bad monthly wage.

That’s USD per annum. CX wide body captains are lucky to make a fraction of that

[mngmt mole]

Friends sons last months paycheck as a CRJ captain at a US Regional was $143000 hkd. Training Captains can earn $230000 hkd month. CRJ.

[magenta magnet]

don't forget the roughly 30% tax, excluding 401k deductions etc etc

and commuting, which will kill you.. never commute

[Veruka Salt]

Magenta, unsure from your post if you're referring to salaries at CX, or in the US. In case it's the US:

None of the majors require 401(k) deductions - it's straight direct contribution (by the company), typically 16%. Kinda like the old 15.5% Cathay DC.

Federal Income Tax is around 24%. State income tax varies by state. Mine is zero.

About 60% of pilots in my airline commute. ID travel/jumpseats are free. Including on other airlines. Very doable.

[cfmoverboost]

don't forget the roughly 30% tax, excluding 401k deductions etc etc

and commuting, which will kill you.. never commute

However, you’ll have an actual CONTRACT. Not a flimsy handbook that contain the words “ from Time to time”, “at the Company’s discretion”.

Because of this “contract”, people cannot obtain loans for crazy things like a mortgage. The banks are not stupid, they know that pilots that work for CX can have a reduction in remuneration at a moments notice without repercussion.

simply put, working at Cathay Pacific Airways is simply a job, NOT a career

[Babyjet_dododo]

don't forget the roughly 30% tax, excluding 401k deductions etc etc

and commuting, which will kill you.. never commute

What commuting are you referring to? If within the US, then it’ll be probably easy

[numichem]

Hi guys,

I sent my application to CX about 2 months ago and got an email for flight hours the last month and replied to that. Can anyone give me some idea about the recruitment timeline and assessment?

[Bekol delay]

All our staff are quitting, so your email may not be replied to promptly.

If you have a license, genuine hours, and can pass a medical expect a call back within the next CoS or 2. However, if you have 4000hrs+ total time, including 1500+ multi jet, then expect a much quicker call...

[numichem]

Thanks for letting me know that. Much appreciated.

[MENELAUS]

Thanks for letting me know that. Much appreciated.


Bekol is taking the proverbial. Sadly he’s right.

[Silent Treatment]

I mistakenly read DFO interview. Not sure why I did that.

[SIDS N STARS]

We've gone from A-Scale, to B-scale, then C and so on, to where we are today. Im not having a go at the guys who accepted their conditions, but what is on offer is trending in one direction only. Once the target hours hits 70-80, that'll be it. Over the course of 12 months, no chance to fly additional hours without exceeding the annual limit, so it will just be base salary + per diems for the rest of your CX career

[Uplinker]

.........feel like a spoon feeding? If so you'll be one of the ones that can't hack training.......


and
........... What is the point in prepping for selection interviews/tests ? If you have read the book about how to pass the interview, practiced likely scenarios in a sim hired jointly by others others (loads did that !), got all the answers to the dreaded "Tech Quiz" and practiced over at least ten of them, you are demonstrating excellent desire but Selection teams prefer unrehearsed candidates. It gives a better picture of likely success.

Having served on Selection Boards, we were all unimpressed with those, clearly practiced or had the answers. During my schooling, it was called cheating.


Seems a bit harsh. A good pilot thinks ahead, plans and mitigates risk, so I am not sure if you can really criticise a pilot for employing the same methodology to try to secure a job offer.

I would say it's called being prepared.

The one time I stupidly did not prepare for a pilot interview, relying instead on knowing that I had the skills and experience; I did not do so well and surprise surprise, did not get a job offer. Some years later, when I tried the same airline again, I passed - but I made sure that I had prepared that time.

This OP is probably not asking for the actual answers, but it is useful to know if there will be tech questions or : "tell us about a time when......" or "which do you prefer: guns or poetry?".

[Whispering Giant]

I also believe it is better to prepare for an interview, as the old adage - Fail to prepare, Prepare to fail is so true in these situations. Preparing for an interview also shows you are resourceful and are prepared to spend a little time to ensure that you succeed at a given task, which will show that would likely be better placed to succeed at a type rating as your prepared to go the extra mile to fully understand something.

[Gordomac]

It was only the RAF that informed me, years later in "preparing" for a side career in selection, that candidates who were "unprepared" for the selection tests and succeeded , were later proved to be a safer bet for success in training.

My third attempt for RAF selection saw me "prepare" by practicing on Brighton pier for the co-ordination tests. For mechanics I read "how Cars Work". A C Comode's "Flight without formulae" was a delight. Quick chat about the Leadership tests with a neighbour up the road (retired RAF Group Captain) where he informed me to just make sure I was noticed. "Get out in front in every group discussion and exercise" were words ringing in my ears as I swung on the end of a rope barking out orders all over the place to everyone. I was offered a place at RAF Cranwell.

It is one thing to "prepare" and another to become so informed as to whizz through selection tests because you are "practiced" and "rehearsed"., thus giving the Selection Board a likely false impression, risking their training investment.

For intense and competitive selection , it helps if you know someone.

[thegypsy]

When I was on B707s in late 70s with KAC I was told way to get job with CX was just to turn but I never bothered.

Many years later as a B767 Captain I applied to ASL as DEC but either the ginger haired Kiwi did not like me or Bells ringing from ECG machine I was unsuccessful which was a blessing in some respects as DEC on A340 with SIA turned better for my last 6 years before retirement.

Hi Gordo. Regards to Julie

[Gordomac]

Regards indeed Sir. For the CX thread, looks like you missed nothing and your ASL experience shows no consideration of your ability or value. And, CX are masters at using the medical dept to reject where others would issue you a Class one., as SIA did.

I did turn up for my first attempt with CX and pretended I played Badminton and liked boats.. I didn't go as far as a DanAir bod who actually found out where the CP lived and knocked on his door. He was sent away with a flea in his ear and long lecture about a man's home being his castle etc !

The only Lodge I was a member of was the UK Travel Lodge frequent stayer club but the CX Board were not impressed . Like you, saved. Had a glorious career elsewhere.

[pfvspnf]

If you are man you can make local girlfriend very very easily

[MENELAUS]

Regards indeed Sir. For the CX thread, looks like you missed nothing and your ASL experience shows no consideration of your ability or value. And, CX are masters at using the medical dept to reject where others would issue you a Class one., as SIA did.

I did turn up for my first attempt with CX and pretended I played Badminton and liked boats.. I didn't go as far as a DanAir bod who actually found out where the CP lived and knocked on his door. He was sent away with a flea in his ear and long lecture about a man's home being his castle etc !

The only Lodge I was a member of was the UK Travel Lodge frequent stayer club but the CX Board were not impressed . Like you, saved. Had a glorious career elsewhere.

For someone who failed (on, it would appear, several occasions, despite sitting on selection boards for other carriers and utilising your very own preparation methods) to get in to CX or that other excrescence ASL ( where the sole provisos were a willingness to screw over another pilots’ seniority, and a pulse) you do seem to enjoy lurking on the FH forum Gordo ? Illustrious career or not.

[Gordomac]

Aaaaah, Glob, ooops, I mean Menelaus or whatever pseudonym, true to character, you choose to hide behind; "Sole provisos" shows distinct inability to recognise commerce.

I was wondering why you were not lining up for personal attack on all my posts for some time now. Popped on the green tinted raybands again have we.?

I "lurk"" around FH for many reasons but, in part, for this sort of hand-bag swing from someone with very limited and tainted vision who wouldn't even get past the basic form-filling stage of any selection board I served on. Still, quite entertaining.

ASL was an excellent commercial idea and was, in early stage, to operate quite separately although, of course, not quite independently from CX mainline. For many "Commercial" pilots, a backdoor into mainline might have appeared. It did, and they wound up flying CX mainline.

Hard, tough playing field out in the real world of commercial flying. Shame you have not wised up.

[MENELAUS]

Haven’t worn ‘Raybands’ green tinted or otherwise in years thank you. And the reason that I haven’t commented on some of your posts is that a) they were generally too riddled with narcissism and b) I couldn’t be arsed.
Do some research on ASL when you get off the sun lounger. That particular experiment cost CX millions, in lost good will and general antipathy. As a commercial experiment, it certainly failed the acid test.
Maybe pop down to your local library with your bus pass and rip a few pages out of a few books ? You’re good at that.
You take care now.

[Gordomac]

Manyflaws; Thanks. Oh dear though, still croaking away, hand-bags at dawn. and confirmation of one of the reasons I still "lurk" about FH.

I try to advise on many posts on different threads and continue by suggesting you let the page-ripping go. Indeed, best to let go of all past events that clearly have left you very riled, agitated and confused. Dangerous underlying conditions in recent years.

For this CX thread, good luck to all who seek entry into the once mighty CX. Not the same now and might be easier. Remember, as a "Commercial " pilot, forget what's painted on the side of an aeroplane. Play the hardball game, stay street wise and you will come out on top...........................much to the irritation and envy of many, clearly............................

[Oasis]

Ray bans are awesome. I was always surprised at the negative feeling in this company towards them. Must be some leftover from the movie top-gun or something.
Just wear what you like, who gives a hoot.

[Icarlosdaniel]

Any recommendations for the final assessment in Hong Kong? Or does anyone know what it's about?

[FlybywireFamily]

Hi! What are the assessment process for DEFO now in CX? Does it have TKE exam if you are already experience? And what are the other process aside from Sim Eval and Medical? Thanks

[bananarepublic]

Hi! What are the assessment process for DEFO now in CX? Does it have TKE exam if you are already experience? And what are the other process aside from Sim Eval and Medical? Thanks

Interview is very straight forward. No tricks.

Simulator is where they get you. Only about 20% pass rate currently. They really focus on manual flying the 777 no matter what rating you have.

Medical is tougher than the standard government requirements. Anything that comes up they will ask you for reports or refer you to a specialist.

[maplestory]

Interview is very straight forward. No tricks.

Simulator is where they get you. Only about 20% pass rate currently. They really focus on manual flying the 777 no matter what rating you have.

Medical is tougher than the standard government requirements. Anything that comes up they will ask you for reports or refer you to a specialist.

20% seems really tough lol

[arse]

20% seems really tough lol

Imagine that! Actually expecting pilot applicants to be able to fly an aircraft to a certain standard. Outrageous!

[HeadUpTheTailpipe]

I have a few mates in Cathay training, and the 20% pass rate for the sim is confirmed.

The ability/experience level of the applicants for the current package is abysmal, and it's no wonder. All they can attract now are misfits and desperados, or pilots from countries with highly questionable logbooks and licences.

The trainers/checkers are quite rightly putting their foot down, and demanding the same standards as Cathay used to have.

They would rather see Cathay go down the swanny, which is where it's headed, than be directly or indirectly responsible for a hull loss, which is where it's also headed.

Karma is a biatch.

[windster]

Do they reply in the given time frame (I was said expect an update after 2-3 weeks) after sending them the training documents??

[Icarlosdaniel]

Do they reply in the given time frame (I was said expect an update after 2-3 weeks) after sending them the training documents??

Yes, they told me in 2 weeks and in two weeks they responded to me

[Bananair]

Yes, they told me in 2 weeks and in two weeks they responded to me
same here. Assessment for October

[Kitsune]

FYI…

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/how-much-pilots-paid-british-airways-speedbird-academy-b1108017.html

[Ash Ketchum]

I just got invited for the DEFO interview at Cathay as well. I am currently an FO for a major airline in Canada and have a stay at home wife and a few kids. Based on the responses it seems that it will be hard to afford living in Hong Kong with a family as a Cathay FO. Does anyone have experience moving with family for the FO job? Thanks!

[Koan]

Astonishing one in 5 can pass a B777 screening.
Have they sold the Classic 747 sims?

Fire it up and let them prove their mettle on a real airplane!

[Oddball77]

I just got invited for the DEFO interview at Cathay as well. I am currently an FO for a major airline in Canada and have a stay at home wife and a few kids. Based on the responses it seems that it will be hard to afford living in Hong Kong with a family as a Cathay FO. Does anyone have experience moving with family for the FO job? Thanks!
Basically if you have a wife and kids, wife not working, paying for expat schooling - I think you'll be on struggle street; you'll never get on the HK housing ladder first of all; just look at rental costs for a modest 3 bedder in Tung Chung it'll easily set you back 30k HKD pm, so what's the whole point in coming to HK as an expat? You can't afford to buy an apartment in HK (this will be your retirement nest egg) and when you head back to Canada when you retire you won't have a house there neither. Just imagine that, worked your whole life till 65 and nothing to show for it, welcome to the new reality of living on COS18.

[magenta magnet]

Basically if you have a wife and kids, wife not working, paying for expat schooling - I think you'll be on struggle street; you'll never get on the HK housing ladder first of all; just look at rental costs for a modest 3 bedder in Tung Chung it'll easily set you back 30k HKD pm, so what's the whole point in coming to HK as an expat? You can't afford to buy an apartment in HK (this will be your retirement nest egg) and when you head back to Canada when you retire you won't have a house there neither. Just imagine that, worked your whole life till 65 and nothing to show for it, welcome to the new reality of living on COS18.

I don't think you understand how a pension works... what you're asking for is a double pension for day 1 as a second officer and that's not how life works. Second officers rent and save as much as they can until they are ready, first officers buy a little place with their working wife or if they've saved for a nice deposit, Captains have nice big houses. Same as any where else in the world.. in any industry.

And yes you can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tung Chung for say $7.5m, that's just over 30k a month in repayments (and the interest rates are high right now, but they always change!) location location location.. HK is and always will be one of the most expensive cities to buy property in on the planet!

So no a property you bought is not your retirement, your pension that you contributed to for the last 30 years is your retirement.

[Babyjet_dododo]

I don't think you understand how a pension works... what you're asking for is a double pension for day 1 as a second officer and that's not how life works. Second officers rent and save as much as they can until they are ready, first officers buy a little place with their working wife or if they've saved for a nice deposit, Captains have nice big houses. Same as any where else in the world.. in any industry.

And yes you can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tung Chung for say $7.5m, that's just over 30k a month in repayments (and the interest rates are high right now, but they always change!) location location location.. HK is and always will be one of the most expensive cities to buy property in on the planet!

So no a property you bought is not your retirement, your pension that you contributed to for the last 30 years is your retirement.

What 3 bedroom in TC are you referring too? It must be the 3 bed/one bath. As the H/A apartments are still valued at about $10M. Repayments will still set you back about $35000 per month.

The pension is woefully low. To the point that if one retires in Hong Kong, 10 years of pension money will last them 2 years at best.

[Oddball77]

I don't think you understand how a pension works... what you're asking for is a double pension for day 1 as a second officer and that's not how life works. Second officers rent and save as much as they can until they are ready, first officers buy a little place with their working wife or if they've saved for a nice deposit, Captains have nice big houses. Same as any where else in the world.. in any industry.

And yes you can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house in Tung Chung for say $7.5m, that's just over 30k a month in repayments (and the interest rates are high right now, but they always change!) location location location.. HK is and always will be one of the most expensive cities to buy property in on the planet!

So no a property you bought is not your retirement, your pension that you contributed to for the last 30 years is your retirement.

The property you buy in HK, you’ll sell when you leave and buy a house in your home country when you retire, that’s how it’ll have to work if you are to come to HK. Unless this Canadian DEFO rents in HK for life and mortgages a place in Canada simultaneously.

[SloppyJoe]

FYI almost all property in HK is leasehold, all the leases expire in 2047. Then 🤷‍♂️

[Ash Ketchum]

Basically if you have a wife and kids, wife not working, paying for expat schooling - I think you'll be on struggle street; you'll never get on the HK housing ladder first of all; just look at rental costs for a modest 3 bedder in Tung Chung it'll easily set you back 30k HKD pm, so what's the whole point in coming to HK as an expat? You can't afford to buy an apartment in HK (this will be your retirement nest egg) and when you head back to Canada when you retire you won't have a house there neither. Just imagine that, worked your whole life till 65 and nothing to show for it, welcome to the new reality of living on COS18.

Thanks for the honest reply. Guess I will need to cross Cathay off the list. Are Middle East airlines (Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, etc.) any better for expats with families? Canada is getting very expensive and pilots (especially FOs) make poverty wages here.

[starmaid]

Hey folks, what can I expect at the interview, first stage?

[arse]

Hey folks, what can I expect at the interview, first stage?

some questions about stuff

[magenta magnet]

What 3 bedroom in TC are you referring too? It must be the 3 bed/one bath. As the H/A apartments are still valued at about $10M. Repayments will still set you back about $35000 per month.

The pension is woefully low. To the point that if one retires in Hong Kong, 10 years of pension money will last them 2 years at best.

The fact that you :

1) immediately choose a more expensive house
2) believe any pension on the planet is good for retirement after 10 years of contributions

The above shows a huge issue and a complete misunderstanding on how investing works. You need to look at contributions / growth over the long term and see what the graph does. This notion of "I want to work for CX or any airline for 10 years and retire on a 100m yacht with $10m in the bank is madness"

Investing is a slow game, not a get rich quick scheme.

[Babyjet_dododo]

The fact that you :

1) immediately choose a more expensive house
2) believe any pension on the planet is good for retirement after 10 years of contributions

The above shows a huge issue and a complete misunderstanding on how investing works. You need to look at contributions / growth over the long term and see what the graph does. This notion of "I want to work for CX or any airline for 10 years and retire on a 100m yacht with $10m in the bank is madness"

Investing is a slow game, not a get rich quick scheme.

I never stated it’s a get rich quick. I know how investing works. But when the funds available in the provident fund are junk. My timeline was, 10 years in provident fund from CX will give you about $100K-$150 HKD per year, so that’s about at best $1.5M, that’s without investing, let’s assume an 80% return over the 10 years, that leaves you shy of $3 mill. Like I said, at best 2 years living in Hong Kong. Maybe 3 years

Also the property I stated is enough of a decent size (by Hong Kong standards), in the cheapest complex in the cheapest suburb

[DDDOF]

The biggest thing with CX is the "IF's" you might be able to make it work IF the flying increases as they try to get the flying schedule back to 2019 levels IF they don't change the min hours which determines how much $$$ you make IF they don't decide to change anything else which is ALL at their discretion as its policy not a CBA.
You are obviously an FO at with WS or AC, there have been lots of Canadian pilots at CX going in the exact opposite direction to what you are looking at, Captain and FO's (myself included). However apply go have a look at HK and make your own mind up, just remember at WS or AC you have a Union with a CBA written in stone that if gets messed with you file a grievance with an arbitrator in HK you have none of that its all at the company's whim, so what you sign up for you may lose a month later.
And if you think Canada is expensive go have a walk around a HK grocery store and look for the stuff your kids eat.
Good luck to you.

[corporal klinger]

I never stated it’s a get rich quick. I know how investing works. But when the funds available in the provident fund are junk. My timeline was, 10 years in provident fund from CX will give you about $100K-$150 HKD per year, so that’s about at best $1.5M, that’s without investing, let’s assume an 80% return over the 10 years, that leaves you shy of $3 mill. Like I said, at best 2 years living in Hong Kong. Maybe 3 years

Also the property I stated is enough of a decent size (by Hong Kong standards), in the cheapest complex in the cheapest suburb

My timeline was, 10 years in provident fund from CX will give you about $100K-$150 HKD per year, so that’s about at best $1.5M, that’s without investing, let’s assume an 80% return over the 10 years, that leaves you shy of $3 mill.

You are not invested with 1.5 over 10 years, it slowly builts up over time. So 80% of 1.5 M is very optimistic, more like half of that, if you are lucky.

DDDO got it right, the problem is the uncertainty. Tough call to move without knowing what to expect financially.

[Krone]

There are plenty of returning captains to cx who previously left for whatever reason .
What’s their motivation if its so bad, and the salary is so poor?

I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.

Don't just base your life on the basic salary. Its a package, and overtime forms a large part (sometimes. !)

[Pickuptruck]

There are plenty of returning captains to cx who previously left for whatever reason .
What’s their motivation if its so bad, and the salary is so poor?

I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.

Don't just base your life on the basic salary. Its a package, and overtime forms a large part (sometimes. !)

Jesus, ok so over 400 CN left and around 30 have come back. And that sounds like plenty returning???????

I don't have the very latest Mercer cost of living index in front of me but they specialise in telling companies how much tp pay someone living in one country when they move them to another as an expat. And they charge a lot for it.
Last time I looked at the 2019 Index, based on a couple with two kids, Hong Kong was 1.61 times as expensive as Vancouver or Toronto to live. I'm not talking moving from Richmond or Burlington to eat cup noodles in 700 sq ft sh*thole on Cheung Sha Island, I'm talking having the same equivalent lifestyle. The cost of living in Hong Kong is far greater than the tax difference between Canada and Hong Kong or Australia and Hong Kong. Guys just see the Net salary, and have no idea at all about the actual cost of living.
Having said that, it amazes me how many out there are riding the bus everywhere, feeding their family the cup noodles, missing out on extended family and friends back home, and telling themselves the place and package is still the greatest. The delusion is remarkable. They can't bear the thought that they signed up for CX all those years ago, the package has drastically changed, and they've stuck their head in the sand as the solution. And seniority lists make the decision absolute, you can't slot into a 330 CN job at QF or a 787 CN job at AC and all your mates who decided to stay at their legacy carriers rather than take that CX job offer have in hindsight, in 2023, made the better decision.
Every time I'm in an aircrew immigration queue anywhere, every other airline pities us, offers condolences and feels sorry for us for what our package has become.

[AQIS Boigu]

Jesus, ok so over 400 CN left and around 30 have come back. And that sounds like plenty returning???????



Correct - yet to see a captain with a couple kids in high school returning to HKG

The only ones who are coming back are “empty nesters” happy to live in a shoebox reminiscing about the great expat life of HKG

Some even went back to the place they lived at as Second Officers - what does that tell you?!

[Dragon Pacific]

Correct - yet to see a captain with a couple kids in high school returning to HKG

The only ones who are coming back are “empty nesters” happy to live in a shoebox reminiscing about the great expat life of HKG

Some even went back to the place they lived at as Second Officers - what does that tell you?!

You're exactly right with that one AQIS.

[Good Business Sense]

"how to pass your Cathay Interview by captain X,Y and Z" had that answer about the EPR. Can't remember now haha

with VMCG limiting then reducing EPR/power increases the VMCG and therefore increases MTOW available for takeoff

[main_dog]

(Shouldn’t that be reducing take-off thrust rating reduces VMCG?)

[maplestory]

I heard that Direct entry f.o needs to work for few year as second officer, is it true?

[Zi Peng]

I heard that Direct entry f.o needs to work for few year as second officer, is it true?

I think they are called deFO for a reason.

The overtime in certain fleets is just temporary, that is exactly what the company doesn’t want.
When they will get the numbers back to normal it will flatten out.

[BalloonBuster]

I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.


My basic salary plus housing alliwance was more than that just before i left.
And that was as a relatively junior Captain…..

[Ash Ketchum]

The biggest thing with CX is the "IF's" you might be able to make it work IF the flying increases as they try to get the flying schedule back to 2019 levels IF they don't change the min hours which determines how much $$$ you make IF they don't decide to change anything else which is ALL at their discretion as its policy not a CBA.
You are obviously an FO at with WS or AC, there have been lots of Canadian pilots at CX going in the exact opposite direction to what you are looking at, Captain and FO's (myself included). However apply go have a look at HK and make your own mind up, just remember at WS or AC you have a Union with a CBA written in stone that if gets messed with you file a grievance with an arbitrator in HK you have none of that its all at the company's whim, so what you sign up for you may lose a month later.
And if you think Canada is expensive go have a walk around a HK grocery store and look for the stuff your kids eat.
Good luck to you.

Thank you for the advice, yes I'm currently an FO at AC. From the sounds of it, probably best to stick it out in Canada unless my EB-2 NIW application gets approved and I can head to the US.

[Babyjet_dododo]

My basic salary plus housing alliwance was more than that just before i left.
And that was as a relatively junior Captain…..

To earn that much, you have to be an STC working about 60 flying hours per month with at least 10 sims or a CN1 captain running about 90 hours per month.

[SOPS]

There are plenty of returning captains to cx who previously left for whatever reason .
What’s their motivation if its so bad, and the salary is so poor?

I hear the current cx overtime can push up the monthly salary of senior captains to over $250hk per month? Ok , you work for it , just saying it’s achievable.

Don't just base your life on the basic salary. Its a package, and overtime forms a large part (sometimes. !)

Im sure if you fly 200 hours a month you can make a fortune. What was once the Gold Standard of Airline jobs…no, I’m wrong, the Supet Super Gold Standard of Airline jobs is now just a low paying mess.

[CxDude]

My basic salary plus housing alliwance was more than that just before i left.
And that was as a relatively junior Captain…..
Basic salary as a relatively junior captain was 130k on the old COS. Housing was anywhere from 45-100k depending on fixed/variable or mortgage/rental. So it's disingenuous to say you made more than 250k

[TheEdge]

Interview is very straight forward. No tricks.

Simulator is where they get you. Only about 20% pass rate currently. They really focus on manual flying the 777 no matter what rating you have.

Medical is tougher than the standard government requirements. Anything that comes up they will ask you for reports or refer you to a specialist.

Manual flying the 777 even if no previous experience on Boeing ???

[main_dog]

Basic salary as a relatively junior captain was 130k on the old COS. Housing was anywhere from 45-100k depending on fixed/variable or mortgage/rental. So it's disingenuous to say you made more than 250k


Yeah… nah, not really. A middle-seniority CN was on 150K, plus 15% Provident Fund, plus rental ceiling over 100k, not to mention way better schooling. Insurance was better as well, and included family. Definitely overall package was well over 250K.

[bm330]

Manual flying the 777 even if no previous experience on Boeing ???

In the past, it was the 747. Full on steam driven - round gauges, speed bugs, tuned radios, manual trim. The 777 in comparison flies itself.

[Klimax]

Manual flying the 777 even if no previous experience on Boeing ???
how unfair is that. expect to be able to manipulate the controls of an actually rather simple heavy jet! No magenta line? Sooo unreasonable!

[Flyingtaxidriver]

With these comments I can’t understand why they are so short of pilots 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Zi Peng]

With these comments I can’t understand why they are so short of pilots 🤷🏻‍♂️

With certain comments and questions I now understand why the pass rate is low !
What would you expect to be assessed on ?

[CxDude]

Yeah… nah, not really. A middle-seniority CN was on 150K, plus 15% Provident Fund, plus rental ceiling over 100k, not to mention way better schooling. Insurance was better as well, and included family. Definitely overall package was well over 250K.
My reply was to someone saying they made more than 250k on just basic salary and housing as a junior captain. I wasn't denying that senior captains or total compensation wasn't higher; however that wasn't the discussion.

[Bokpiel]

20% seems really tough lol

It’s not tough. The applicants they are attracting are just useless. If you can’t pass the interview and sim then you must really be crap.

[Bokpiel]

Yeah… nah, not really. A middle-seniority CN was on 150K, plus 15% Provident Fund, plus rental ceiling over 100k, not to mention way better schooling. Insurance was better as well, and included family. Definitely overall package was well over 250K.

Nobody was talking about the overall package. BB said ONLY his basic plus housing was more than 250k as a junior captain, which is obviously a lie.

[Bokpiel]

Manual flying the 777 even if no previous experience on Boeing ???

300 hr TT ****box flight instructors were manually handling the 747 during their stage 2 interviews and passing it not too long ago, so what’s your excuse?

[main_dog]

(A year 4 CN was on 130K and last CN Rental Ceiling I saw was 112.8K, so not far off, actually? But yes, all off-topic)

[BrownCony]

how unfair is that. expect to be able to manipulate the controls of an actually rather simple heavy jet! No magenta line? Sooo unreasonable!

they said it should be fair, because it's all basic flying. Even my assessor is a captain at Airbus, he said treat this plane like a DC-3. This is just manual flying but you have to estimate the momentum and speed of this plane

[Mr.DG]

Any chance for rated B747-4 F pilot join Cathay on 747-4 ?

Please, share interview process for DEFO at CX.

[LootedfromCPA]

Any chance for rated B747-4 F pilot join Cathay on 747-4 ?

Please, share interview process for DEFO at CX.

Management will promise you the 747-400/-8 then backstab you and swap you to the A320 flying bats out of Wuhan :D this is the Cathay way.