Fate of RAF Scampton

[Finningley Boy]

Ladies , Gentleman and everyone else,

I've just been hearing from Nick Ferrari, along with other outrages in this country today, that the Dambusters Ancestral Home, could be about to become a migrant centre. My personal feelings are that this confirms this government to be radical left liberal. Could not a purpose built detention centre be built? And on land away from such parts of Britain. Lincoln is an historic tourist city, enough said. But under current circumstances, is there really no good reason for the retention of Scampton as an active airbase. Does it not presently house the HHA as well as, alongside Boulmer, house one of the RAF's principal GCI stations. Are this government, given what ORAC's just posted entirely convinced there is room to shed more military airfields?

FB

[chevvron]

They could always use nearby Faldingworth (bet you never heard of it) instead. The buildings at Scampton are in just as bad a state of decay as with both airfields and there are already 'great plans' for the development of Scampton as a civil airfield being worked on by West Lindsey District Council; oh hang on, isn't there another airfield nearby at Finningley?
I heard that bit by Nick Ferrari; there was absolutely no mention of the fact that the infrastructure of Scampton has been totally neglected for over 20 years with no maintenance being carried out, nor any mention of the fact that Wethersfield has been put forward as another migrant centre.
By the way, no mention of a migrant centre in West Sussex being engulfed by fire at present time.
Sorry it's apparently a 400 year old hotel housing Ukrainian refugees which is engulfed by fire.

[NutLoose]

It's already in the asylum seekers accomodation thread, but the latest news

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/03/plans-for-raf-scampton-to-house-up-to-1500-asylum-seekers/

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/03/developers-behind-raf-scampton-plans-ask-home-office-for-common-sense/

Plans to house 1,500 asylum seekers at RAF Scampton have been described as “barking mad” by developers hoping to spark a £300 million heritage regeneration of the historic site.

Scampton Holdings is the development partner for West Lindsey District Council’s proposed purchase and redevelopment of the retired airbase.

However the landmark deal appears to be in jeopardy after the Home Office announced plans to house up to 1500 asylum seekers waiting to be processed.
“On the surface it just sounds barking mad”, said Peter Hewitt of Scampton Holdings. “We worked closely with the council for years to put together a plan that works for the region and local area.“The Home Office seem to want around 40 acres, which is 5% of the site, but the issue is that this is in the space section we are looking at, taking out a significant part of our education area too.”

The Scampon Holdings plan would preserve and enhance the site by providing education and employment opportunities in aviation heritage, aerospace and aviation technology.

The proposal would see potentially thousands of jobs created, with educational campuses, heritage sites to remember the past of RAF Scampton, work/live accommodation, and even hopes of an operational runway.

Community backlash has spiralled since the Home Office’s plans were announced, with local MPs, councillors and residents all saying they do not want this to go ahead.

Tensions rose when it was discovered that West Lindsey District Council had not been informed of the plans, despite the obvious significance of housing more asylum seekers than there are residents in Scampton village.

Mr Hewitt said that the Home Office had not been in touch with Scampton Holdings about these plans, and he has called for the government to show “common sense”.

“There are plenty of contradictions within this. Would the region prefer a refugee centre to £300 million of regeneration and levelling up?” He said.

“We simply cannot operate with 1,500 additional people in the vicinity. The result of this is binary as there is not room for both our plans and the Home Office’s.

“We’re hoping they can provide clarity so that business can get on with what business does best, but this will not put us off our plans. Progress cannot be made until the Home Office make their decision.”

Peter Hewitt and Scampton Holdings remain fully committed to the project despite this recent roadblock emerging.

He has a grand vision of eventually bringing the Red Arrows back to Scampton, but says that plans will be scuppered should the Home Office proceed.

“Far be it from me to explain the workings of politics, but the whole situation leaves me puzzled,” Peter said.

“Getting the country running again is about investing in areas that have been left behind.

“I just hope this doesn’t push our project back five to ten years because half the battle with our proposal is ensuring the runway remains operational.

“I’m sorry that this hasn’t been given the clarity it should have, but rest assured that we are all on the same side. I am hoping that once the dust settles on the budget, the government will use their common sense.

“The government wanted levelling up, and that’s what we are trying to do. I ask that we are given a hand, not a stick.”

[Finningley Boy]

They could always use nearby Faldingworth (bet you never heard of it) instead. The buildings at Scampton are in just as bad a state of decay as with both airfields and there are already 'great plans' for the development of Scampton as a civil airfield being worked on by West Lindsey District Council; oh hang on, isn't there another airfield nearby at Finningley?
I heard that bit by Nick Ferrari; there was absolutely no mention of the fact that the infrastructure of Scampton has been totally neglected for over 20 years with no maintenance being carried out, nor any mention of the fact that Wethersfield has been put forward as another migrant centre.
By the way, no mention of a migrant centre in West Sussex being engulfed by fire at present time.
Sorry it's apparently a 400 year old hotel housing Ukrainian refugees which is engulfed by fire.
I have heard of Faldingworth I believe it was for a blink of eye a Thor missile base..

Have you ever heard of Metheringham?

FB

[oldpax]

What happened to the ancestral homes of those heroes that went on the Nuremberg raid and never returned?Or indeed hardly get a mention.

[NutLoose]

[QUOTE=chevvron;11403091]They could always use nearby Faldingworth (bet you never heard of it) instead. The buildings at Scampton are in just as bad a state of decay as with both airfields and there are already 'great plans' for the development of Scampton as a civil airfield being worked on by West Lindsey District Council; oh hang on, isn't there another airfield nearby at Finningley?

Finningley is shutting and a lot of the site was bulldozed when it was redeveloped.

[Finningley Boy]

What happened to the ancestral homes of those heroes that went on the Nuremberg raid and never returned?Or indeed hardly get a mention.
Media publicity sir, so many of the old bases had to go at the end of the war; Bardney, Wickenby, North Killingholme, Kelsern, Fiskerton and of course, many. many more. All Bomber Command as well. However, the Dambusters are an historic legend with a special place in UK history, if only through the circumstances of their creation and the media hype, which inevitably followed. I stand corrected Chevvron, I don't believe Faldingworth was a Thor base, but it was a satellite for Scampton and Waddington in the early V-Bomber era, might explain partly why it didn't get the Thor IRBMs as many of the afore mentioned did?!

FB

[CharlieMike]

I don't really understand those redevelopment plans. Looking at the experiences from Finningley/Doncaster, I can't see it particularly profitable as an airfield so I'm not sure why the runway needs to remain operational. They've got a redeveloped 'heritage centre' with glass walkway to watch RAFAT practice in R313, which I'm pretty sure isn't guaranteed to be staying. They claim it will be a space port...unlike somewhere in the Outer Hebrides or Shetland, I can't see rocket launches closing the airspace above a central part of the UK from surface to unlimited and the Newquay 'space port' doesn't seem to be doing much now that Virgin Orbit have had problems, both technical and financial. Call me a cynic but when I see terms like 'levelling up" and "space port", it makes me think some private company is going to be getting a significant chunk of taxpayer money that we wont really see benefit from.

[chevvron]

I have heard of Faldingworth I believe it was for a blink of eye a Thor missile base..

Have you ever heard of Metheringham?

FB
I think you'll find Faldingworth housed a little bit more than a mere Thor site, in fact as far as I'm aware, it wasn't a Thor site although there were others nearby eg Hemswell.
Yes I have heard of Metheringham.

[chevvron]

Finningley is shutting and a lot of the site was bulldozed when it was redeveloped.
I understand that Peel and the local council are still negotiating.

[RetiredBA/BY]

I believe Faldingworth, during V force days, was a storage depot for nuclear weapons.
Long since disused.

[Finningley Boy]

I think you'll find Faldingworth housed a little bit more than a mere Thor site, in fact as far as I'm aware, it wasn't a Thor site although there were others nearby eg Hemswell.
Yes I have heard of Metheringham.
And of course I have heard of Faldingworth, I just wasn't sure off the top of my head what its post-war/cold war use was. But had an idea it had housed a Thor Sqn. Retired BA/BY same again, but I've read on line that it was a satellite for Scampton, proximity suggested it wold fulfill the same role for all the Lincolnshire V-bases at the time, but I bow to your greater knowledge.

FB

[BEagle]

RAF Faldingworth was never a missile site, but was a secure storage site for nuclear weapons until Polaris took over the dterrent commitment in 1969; Faldingworth closed in 1972.

The nearest Thor missile site to RAF Scampton was RAF Hemswell, just up the A15 from Scampton at Caenby Corner. The RAF left Hemswell in 1967, but in 1973 it became the temporary home for many Ugandan Asians who had been kicked out by the wretched Idi Amin - or rather 'His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular' as he liked to style himself.

The nearest missile site to RAF Scampton was RAF Dunholme Lodge, a couple of miles south just off the A15. From 1959-1964 it housed the Bloodhound missiles of 141 Squadron.

As for RAF Scampton itself, it is in a truly appalling state of decay. The Officers Mess was virtually left to rot and would cost a fortune to restore. A far cry from V-force or even CFS days...

[Finningley Boy]

..............................................*RAF Faldingworth was never a missile site, but was a secure storage site for nuclear weapons until Polaris took over the dterrent commitment in 1969; Faldingworth closed in 1972.

The nearest Thor missile site to RAF Scampton was RAF Hemswell, just up the A15 from Scampton at Caenby Corner. The RAF left Hemswell in 1967, but in 1973 it became the temporary home for many Ugandan Asians who had been kicked out by the wretched Idi Amin - or rather 'His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular' as he liked to style himself.

The nearest missile site to RAF Scampton was RAF Dunholme Lodge, a couple of miles south just off the A15. From 1959-1964 it housed the Bloodhound missiles of 141 Squadron.

As for RAF Scampton itself, it is in a truly appalling state of decay. The Officers Mess was virtually left to rot and would cost a fortune to restore. A far cry from V-force or even CFS days...
When the RAF returned to Scampton, about 2001, I was under the impression that it was fully inhabitable. When I saw it in 2017, I was shocked at the state of the officers' mess, all hard board on the windows and building site fencing around it. There was a suggestion at one time that the mess could become something like a Travelodge or part of some other hotel chain.

FB

[langleybaston]

Very depressing, and symptomatic of the national decline into mediocrity. Of all the RAF stations on which I served [and the list is very long and mixed, because we were not "Training" or "Bomber" or "Fighter" or "Transport"] I think only Leeming and Brize remain.
But my last sighting of Scampton was good: The Vulcans were going but not gone, the grave was well tended, and the Mess comfortable and traditional.

Never go back.

[Finningley Boy]

Centre spread in the Daily Express today, but typical journalistic vagueness regarding technical detail, main photo purports to show 617 crews immediately post raid smiling to camera, in the background, however, are two Avro Manchesters. By the way, has anyone spotted the dog in the background of the final scene of the film. On location at RAF Scampton, while Richard Todd is talking to Sir Michael Redgrave, as Wg Cdr Gibson to Barnes Wallis of course. All questioned were/are convinced there was no dog on the station at the time of filming.

FB:ooh:

[ATR43]

I understand that when the closure of Scampton was first mooted back in the mid 90's the MOD bean counters discovered something that stopped them dead in their tracks. It was found that when the A15 was re-routed to extend the Scampton runway it was done so on the understanding that should the MOD ever close and sell the airfield they would be responsible for the reinstatement of the A15s original route. The costs envisaged at that time were in the region of £6m, following which the subject of closing and selling Scampton became ominously quiet!!

[Timelord]

Centre spread in the Daily Express today, but typical journalistic vagueness regarding technical detail, main photo purports to show 617 crews immediately post raid smiling to camera, in the background, however, are two Avro Manchesters. By the way, has anyone spotted the dog in the background of the final scene of the film. On location at RAF Scampton, while Richard Todd is talking to Sir Michael Redgrave, as Wg Cdr Gibson to Barnes Wallis of course. All questioned were/are convinced there was no dog on the station at the time of filming.

FB:ooh:

I’m pretty sure the movie was filmed up the road at Hemswell so the ghostly dog must have trotted up the A15.

[BEagle]

The rumour I heard was that when the dog was spotted in the last few minutes of the film (as 'Barnes Wallis' and 'Guy Gibson' are walking together), some film luvvie asked an airman whether he'd "Seen 'N****r?". To which he received the reply "No mate - there aren't any n****rs at Scampton".

[langleybaston]

The rumour I heard was that when the dog was spotted in the last few minutes of the film (as 'Barnes Wallis' and 'Guy Gibson' are walking together), some film luvvie asked an airman whether he'd "Seen 'N****r?". To which he received the reply "No mate - there aren't any n****rs at Scampton".

The ghost dog N****r is also said to appear in "a" group photo of the unveiling of the squadron memorial at Woodhall Spa.

[Finningley Boy]

Just for the sake of accuracy, he compared the language being used by the Tory government today to that used in 1930s Germany. I see nothing wrong with that view.
That's fair enough but we do now live in an era of quickly perceived slights. But it isn't those defending the government necessarily who mistook what he said, James O'Brien on LBC spelt out, in defence of Lineker, which direction the government were headed in, suggesting we were on track for a similar conclusion to that of the Third Reich.

FB

[Finningley Boy]

I’m pretty sure the movie was filmed up the road at Hemswell so the ghostly dog must have trotted up the A15.
Well its a Ghost so it can appear wherever it likes, I suppose.:confused:

FB

[Finningley Boy]

The ghost dog N****r is also said to appear in "a" group photo of the unveiling of the squadron memorial at Woodhall Spa.
That's right, I saw that photo in one of Bruce Barrymore Halpenny's Books. Apparently the dog pitched up and insisted in being in shot for the photograph. Even though they tried to shoo it away, it wouldn't leave so they relented and so the photo was taken, after, the pooch split. Same old story, nobody knew where it came from, no owner identified etc. Personally, given the circumstances, if I was there I'd have got an acute case of the Heebie Geebies.

FB

[langleybaston]

That's right, I saw that photo in one of Bruce Barrymore Halpenny's Books. Apparently the dog pitched up and insisted in being in shot for the photograph. Even though they tried to shoo it away, it wouldn't leave so they relented and so the photo was taken, after, the pooch split. Same old story, nobody knew where it came from, no owner identified etc. Personally, given the circumstances, if I was there I'd have got an acute case of the Heebie Geebies.

FB

I heard it about ten years ago from a Woodhall Spa resident who "was there on the day"

[pr00ne]

Media publicity sir, so many of the old bases had to go at the end of the war; Bardney, Wickenby, North Killingholme, Kelsern, Fiskerton and of course, many. many more. All Bomber Command as well. However, the Dambusters are an historic legend with a special place in UK history, if only through the circumstances of their creation and the media hype, which inevitably followed. I stand corrected Chevvron, I don't believe Faldingworth was a Thor base, but it was a satellite for Scampton and Waddington in the early V-Bomber era, might explain partly why it didn't get the Thor IRBMs as many of the afore mentioned did?!

FB

Faldingworth was not a satellite of Scampton or Waddington it was developed as a massive storage and servicing area for nuclear weapons and remained as such until it closed as an RF station in 1972. It was a self accounting station in it's own right housing 92 Maintenance Unit. It had extensive underground secure storage bunkers built all over the old airfield site along with married quarters and domestic and technical accommodation.
When it closed it was taken over by BMARC from Grantham as an ammunition and weapons manufacturing facility.

[retiredcrewman]

I am unable to post urls as I have insufficient post history but there is a petition that people can sign backing the regeneration plan and saving the heritage. It is available on change . org and is the most recent petition. Historians such as James Holland and Peter Caddick-Adam’s have supported us and have posted the link on their Twitter timelines.
I live in Lincoln and am part of the campaign, happy to engage and answer questions.

[chevvron]

That's right, I saw that photo in one of Bruce Barrymore Halpenny's Books. Apparently the dog pitched up and insisted in being in shot for the photograph. Even though they tried to shoo it away, it wouldn't leave so they relented and so the photo was taken, after, the pooch split. Same old story, nobody knew where it came from, no owner identified etc. Personally, given the circumstances, if I was there I'd have got an acute case of the Heebie Geebies.

FB
Did anyone notice that, in the original film, the guard who shoo'ed N***** away from the briefing room where where they were briefing for the Dams raid.
He was none other than 'Number 6'.

[Jobza Guddun]

........again, would care and maintenance not be sensible??

Only if it was better than how existing facilities are looked after!! :E

[Finningley Boy]

Did anyone notice that, in the original film, the guard who shoo'ed N***** away from the briefing room where where they were briefing for the Dams raid.
He was none other than 'Number 6'.
Patrick McGoohan, I believe, later famous for the line;

"The trouble with Scotland is its full of Scots" must be said with a hint of indifference and menace. I'm a Scot by the way so I'm allowed to repeat this without anyone getting a blood vessel burst over it.

FB

[chevvron]

Patrick McGoohan, I believe, later famous for the line;

"The trouble with Scotland is its full of Scots" must be said with a hint of indifference and menace. I'm a Scot by the way so I'm allowed to repeat this without anyone getting a blood vessel burst over it.

FB
Before I became an ATCO, I worked in a warehouse. One day we had a delivery in which had come straight from the studio at Borehamwood.
The driver (Irish accent) told us that he happened to see McGoohan there and went up to him to ask for his autograph assuming he would be successful being Irish himself.
McGoohan asked what he was doing there; driver said he'd just done a delivery.
"You've done your delivery now get out" said McGoohan.

[Senior Pilot]

Infernal debating of political extremes has plenty of outlets in Jet Blast; our Military forum and this thread doesn’t need to be another outlet for such angst.

Back on topic, please 👍

[mopardave]

Only if it was better than how existing facilities are looked after!! :E

Point taken mate. We seem to be good at letting infrastructure decay......when preventative maintenance tends to be cheaper in the long run. Anyway, the "bean counters" inevitably win the day.

[Krystal n chips]

It would appear this proposal has not gone unnoticed elsewhere....

RAF Scampton: Historians pen letter against WW2 airfield migrant plan - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-65000047)

[chevvron]

Strange that the Home office didn't consider Linton on Ouse when they'd already earmarked it once.
Anywhere they choose, airfield or not, would need a concerted effort to get it ready to accomodate all these people even if it will only be temporary and we already know that the infrastructure at Scampton has been massively neglected in recent years thus it would take a long time to get ready.
Course if the Army still has the temporary accomodation they built in double quick time for the 'Nightingale' hospital, it could be done, but where?
Personally I'm an advocate of putting them all on a spare cruise ship or car ferry. (Presumably Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal have already been disposed of)

[NutLoose]

I am unable to post urls as I have insufficient post history but there is a petition that people can sign backing the regeneration plan and saving the heritage. It is available on change . org and is the most recent petition. Historians such as James Holland and Peter Caddick-Adam’s have supported us and have posted the link on their Twitter timelines.
I live in Lincoln and am part of the campaign, happy to engage and answer questions.

Welcome to the forums, the link you cannot yet post is at

https://www.change.org/p/stop-raf-scampton-being-turned-into-a-detention-camp?recruiter=1300739826&recruited_by_id=1a5fd870-c312-11ed-a9d7-6176e9f0fc31&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=petition_dashboard


https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/03/more-than-2000-sign-petition-in-24-hours-to-stop-raf-scampton-migrant-centre-plans/

[retiredcrewman]

Nutloose thank you for that.
Lots going on this week. We’ve got some pieces in the papers off the back of the James Holland letter. Hopefully some TV coverage next. The developer has now stated that they are looking at other sites because of the uncertainty so we hope to force the Government’s hand this week.

[dctyke]

Strange that the Home office didn't consider Linton on Ouse when they'd already earmarked it once.
Anywhere they choose, airfield or not, would need a concerted effort to get it ready to accomodate all these people even if it will only be temporary and we already know that the infrastructure at Scampton has been massively neglected in recent years thus it would take a long time to get ready.
Course if the Army still has the temporary accomodation they built in double quick time for the 'Nightingale' hospital, it could be done, but where?
Personally I'm an advocate of putting them all on a spare cruise ship or car ferry. (Presumably Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal have already been disposed of)

and money had already been spent at Linton to prepare it.

[retiredcrewman]

Who will they put at Scampton? I thought all the children and babies are to be deported to Rwanda against their human rights?
I realise you are being facetious but for info the plan is for a holding centre consisting of tents/iso containers to house 1500 males prior to their deportation. The legislation currently going through parliament requires anyone who enters the country ‘illegally’ to be deported within 28 days. They would be held at Scampton during this 28 day period. Should the legislation fail or be delayed the intention is still for Scampton to be used in order to relieve pressure on hotels.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Strange that the Home office didn't consider Linton on Ouse when they'd already earmarked it once.


Linton was eearmarked based upon the advice of a couple of clowns working for the Home Office. Linton never was suitable for what they wanted, hence it is not suitable now. The pity is that the clowns in question are still employed and attempting to repeat the fiaso again at Scampton.

I am sure there have been meetings with locals, I am sure they will have apologised for lack of consultation, and that lessons will be learned for the future blah blah blah.They will now waste more millions of the tax-payers' money on yet another unsuitable folly.

Once again I say "Good luck Scampton, do not believe a word you are told". They have very little to zero knowledge of the background of the guests, they are not processed, and they will not be secured. Do folk really believe the guests will hang around waiting for a ticket to Rwanda?

[chevvron]

Linton was earmarked based upon the advice of a couple of clowns working for the Home Office. Linton never was suitable for what they wanted, hence it is not suitable now. The pity is that the clowns in question are still employed and attempting to repeat the fiaso again at Scampton.

Civil servants or government appointed?
Whichever it is as you say they haven't a clue what to do.
Typical civil servants I would guess because the saying is you can never sack a civil servant, you can only promote them and post them. [I was civil service for the first 5 years of my career, then although I became CAA, I worked for MOD(PE) so I know the civil service mentality]
If you wanted an airfield, the obvious choice would be Manston, but as it's now in private hands, that option isn't available unless the government temporarily takes it over and it's operated unlicensed with no instrument approach procedures. The closest alternative, Lydd, is too short (only about 1500m) for the type of aircraft needed for long range operations.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

One of them wss "Home Office’s director of detention escorting service in immigration enforcement"
He is named in manuy online articles relating to various sites and failures around the country.

[Finningley Boy]

Broadcasters and veterans try to stop home of ex-Dambusters HQ becoming refugee detention centre | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11879239/Broadcasters-veterans-try-stop-home-ex-Dambusters-HQ-refugee-detention-centre.html)

Here, vindication.

FB:)

[langleybaston]

Civil servants or government appointed?
Whichever it is as you say they haven't a clue what to do.
Typical civil servants I would guess because the saying is you can never sack a civil servant, you can only promote them and post them. [I was civil service for the first 5 years of my career, then although I became CAA, I worked for MOD(PE) so I know the civil service mentality]
If you wanted an airfield, the obvious choice would be Manston, but as it's now in private hands, that option isn't available unless the government temporarily takes it over and it's operated unlicensed with no instrument approach procedures. The closest alternative, Lydd, is too short (only about 1500m) for the type of aircraft needed for long range operations.

Cheap shots and generalities about civil servants.
The scientific CS was and is nothing like these clumsy caricatures.
As for sacking, very possible, I got rid of several, sometimes at request of Staish

[John LeBrun]

Faldingworth was a nuclear weapons maintenance base. The Thors were based at RAF Hemswell. Incidentally the Scampton station shield showed a bow and arrow, the arrow was at the same angle to the bowstring as was the runway orientation in relation to the new portion of the A15, the string representing the old straight-as-a-die Roman road. The devise was in Latin, translated as "An armed man is not attacked". Don't tell the US NRA.

[mopardave]

Broadcasters and veterans try to stop home of ex-Dambusters HQ becoming refugee detention centre | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11879239/Broadcasters-veterans-try-stop-home-ex-Dambusters-HQ-refugee-detention-centre.html)

Here, vindication.

FB:)

And no doubt for their trouble, the cancel culture mob will brand them heartless "Neo Nazis" for trying to raise the historical profile of this place.

[Finningley Boy]

And no doubt for their trouble, the cancel culture mob will brand them heartless "Neo Nazis" for trying to raise the historical profile of this place.
Always the first line of defence(attack) by the cancel culture, but to a man/woman, not one involved in the resistance to Braverman's plan strikes as the sort you would instantly place in such category. Another way to see this more clearly, and dispassionately, if someone lived in a house where when they looked out the bedroom window each morning they viewed a wooded meadow. One day the site survey team turns up to start recording their calculations, next it soon comes to note that the place is going to be replaced by an Amazon Distribution Centre? Or a Vehicle Recovery and Examination Centre, I know something about the features and characteristics of the latter, all very much necessary to the tapestry of modern living. But you wouldn't want one to turn up on your doorstep suddenly. In this case, an historic heritage site, within such an historic tourist area, faces the same sweep aside destruction by something necessary, but which would be incompatible and which could easily be placed elsewhere.

FB

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

The problem with the argument there FB is that an Amazon Distribuition Centre, or a Vehicle Recovery and Examination Centre would be subject to normal planning applications and the local poulation would have the ability to object.
Both would be far more acceptable than 1500+ single males, of unkown origin, wandering around your garden.

There was mention that the HO would be able to develope MOD land without ANY discussion with the locals and no need to follow usual planning rules.

[Finningley Boy]

The problem with the argument there FB is that an Amazon Distribuition Centre, or a Vehicle Recovery and Examination Centre would be subject to normal planning applications and the local poulation would have the ability to object.
Both would be far more acceptable than 1500+ single males, of unkown origin, wandering around your garden.

There was mention that the HO would be able to develope MOD land without ANY discussion with the locals and no need to follow usual planning rules.
Of course, mind you, consultation with the Hoi Polloi in order to seek the approval of same appears increasingly to be a formal exercise. The Mayor of London likes to be seen as a man of the people, when the people disagree, he carries on regardless. What I can't understand about the Home Office, is did they really turn everything upside down in their search for a suitable location for this new tent city? How on earth did Scampton get picked? Especially given the investment in its long term future which would at the very least preserve what has to be regarded as a sacred plot. This is truly an historic visitor attraction, if they went ahead and transformed the OM into a Hotel, it surly, with the right publicity, be a wise investment.

FB

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

"...did they really turn everything upside down in their search for a suitable location for this new tent city?"

I think the answer is a resounding NO. Clown 1 and 2 went for what they perceived to be path of least resistance. When we spoke with them at Linton they had 5 other "potential targets sites" all discounted on the flimsiest of reasons. I think the only Risk Assessment they did was to calculate how many locals they could &^%$ off and not lose a Tory seat.

[NutLoose]

Surely the place to put it is Manston, handy for the coast, so you could more or less land them directly from the sea and being the lorry park for the Channel crossing bottlenecks, you could ship them back out the same way some of them would have arrived by, to whence they came from. :p ;)

just get it up and running again if it isn’t.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63456015

[chevvron]

Surely the place to put it is Manston, handy for the coast, so you could more or less land them directly from the sea and being the lorry park for the Channel crossing bottlenecks, you could ship them back out the same way some of them would have arrived by, to whence they came from. :p ;)

just get it up and running again if it isn’t.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63456015
Already suggested at #40.

[Mil-26Man]

Posted without comment

Guy Walters 🇺🇦 on Twitter: "Conflating the issues of illegal immigration and the preservation of historical sites is a premier dick move, and risks the chances of the Home Office changing its decision. The involvement of Farage with the efforts to save Scampton stains a decent campaign with his association." / Twitter

[Finningley Boy]

Reading Guy Walters tweet, it strikes me that some people think Nigel Farage is a criminal at large. Although I would agree with one thing, his name on the ticket will only get the counter-opinion inflamed because Farage has offered his public support. The best thing Mr Farage can do is to back the Asylum Centre plans, it would cause a good deal of confusion if nothing else!;)

FB

[dctyke]

I see the arguments why Linton on Ouse and Scampton are inappropriate are now migrating to Weathersfield. Everyone wants something doing as long as it’s somewhere else, guess I can’t blame the locals.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

I see the arguments why Linton on Ouse and Scampton are inappropriate are now migrating to Weathersfield. Everyone wants something doing as long as it’s somewhere else, guess I can’t blame the locals.
I don't think it is a case of blaming the locals for fighting back, more a case of the Government being deaf to EVERYONE's concerns here. THE major issue at every site is that the guests were not in secure accommodation. The Home Office could not guarantee their background, hence evryone was justifiably worried. Genuine asylum seekers with a real need to be here, and who would be welcome here, should fully understand our need to validate who they were. Once that is done they can be integrated into our society. Without any assurances then our security should come first. 1500+ SINGLE males of unknown background, literally dumped into a small village ( any village) is totally wrong. Once the idiots in power see why folk kick off then the sooner we may actually achieve an acceptable solution - until then, I support ANY community pushing back.

[cheekychimp]

I don't think it is a case of blaming the locals for fighting back, more a case of the Government being deaf to EVERYONE's concerns here. THE major issue at every site is that the guests were not in secure accommodation. The Home Office could not guarantee their background, hence evryone was justifiably worried. Genuine asylum seekers with a real need to be here, and who would be welcome here, should fully understand our need to validate who they were. Once that is done they can be integrated into our society. Without any assurances then our security should come first. 1500+ SINGLE males of unknown background, literally dumped into a small village ( any village) is totally wrong. Once the idiots in power see why folk kick off then the sooner we may actually achieve an acceptable solution - until then, I support ANY community pushing back.
This is exactly it. I live in one of the 'Springline' villages at the bottom of the hill from Scampton, no one is concerned about genuine asylum seekers. This is about illegal immigrants, 1500 fighting aged males from the countries we've recently been involved in, wandering around up to no good. Alarmist? Possibly, but it's what people are worried about.

[cynicalint]

Surely the place to put it is Manston, handy for the coast, so you could more or less land them directly from the sea and being the lorry park for the Channel crossing bottlenecks, you could ship them back out the same way some of them would have arrived by, to whence they came from. :p ;)

just get it up and running again if it isn’t.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63456015
Surely, the place to put it is Sangate!

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

FB, at the meetings at at Linton with the Home Office we asked how they managed to determine the "guests" were safe. They told us that they will have been through a rigorous checking process. We then asked "HOW, considering you have just told us most destroy or throw away any documents to aid their asylum claim?" - stunned silence!

[Finningley Boy]

FB, at the meetings at at Linton with the Home Office we asked how they managed to determine the "guests" were safe. They told us that they will have been through a rigorous checking process. We then asked "HOW, considering you have just told us most destroy or throw away any documents to aid their asylum claim?" - stunned silence!
SATCO

I think this is it, a mixture of ineffectual timidity, gutless incompetence, utter disregard for the long term impact of allowing the problem to expand and a high minded assumption that the hoi polloi can be dismissed with absurd reassurances based on contempt for same.

FB

[skua]

Whitehall is acting with an arrogance which is pissing off people within and without the political chain. I gather that, for example, the Novotel in Ipswich was sequestered at less than 48 hours notice. The staff had to be be fired becasue Serco employees were put in. It was previously the main business hotel for central Ipswich so all the associated dining and hosiptality spending spillover disappeared overnight. The local Council was powerless to intervene. This is building into a pressure cooker issue.

The decision to use Scampton is spectacularly tin-eared.

[melmothtw]

We're constantly told all crossing the channel in boats are desperate and have a near irrefutable case. If you've got thousands of pounds to pay people traffickers then it would make a lot more sense to use a fraction of that to buy a flight ticket and fly to the UK, have your passport ready to present to the immigration officials on arrival, declare your wish to claim asylum and see what happens from there, if you have a strong case, surely you would be given a fair hearing. The majority of people crossing the channel in boats are mostly young men, as others have pointed out. They throw their passports away refuse to say where they've come from and prefer to pay people smugglers a fortune. I can only imagine the reason for this is because they have a very weak case to put forward for asylum. As for the EU, one reason for leaving is because it is seeking to become a single large state, already with a one size fits all currency. Jean-Claude Junker before he stepped down as Commission President, spoke of Brussels having tax raising powers of all member states, or should that be all component parts of the state?!??!

FB

Pretty sure that if you're booking a plane ticket with a passport that requires a visa to enter the UK, you have to present that visa or evidence of it on check in or you won't be boarded. The fact is, there are no safe and legal ways to claim asylum in this country - the government could process the applications in Calais if it wanted to, but make a political decision not to.

FWIW, I wouldn't support Scampton being used as a detention centre, but I think it's a mistake to conflate the fate of that historical base with immigration. They don't want to be there anymore than you or anyone else wants them to be there.

[NutLoose]

Whitehall is acting with an arrogance which is pissing off people within and without the political chain. I gather that, for example, the Novotel in Ipswich was sequestered at less than 48 hours notice. The staff had to be be fired becasue Serco employees were put in. It was previously the main business hotel for central Ipswich so all the associated dining and hosiptality spending spillover disappeared overnight. The local Council was powerless to intervene. This is building into a pressure cooker issue.

The decision to use Scampton is spectacularly tin-eared.

Without sounding like the national front, racist and all of that bullsh*t, that is part of the problem, it's also the hidden costs, firing the staff means it is possible some of those staff may lose the roof over their heads and become homeless, therefore hard working low paid hospitality staff who were born and bred here are being ejected possibly onto the streets as some live in, to put a roof over the head of someone who has never paid a days worth of taxes into the UK, and in all likelihood shouldn't be here.
It is a sad state of affairs when the UK cannot house and help our homeless who are forced to live on the streets, while we give full board and lodgings to those that have no right in most cases to be in this Country.
There are even pensioners that would welcome three meals a day and a warm hotel room over the winters months.

The secondary cost is possibly a hidden cost, in that these people fired through no fault of their own may well end up on benefits, or should I say those that managed to keep a roof over their heads and an address, those that can't are much more unfortunate as i believe they cannot claim without an address.

..

[Get me some traffic]

I think Gruinard is uninhabited. Might fit the bill. Just be careful when you're digging!!

[Expatrick]

Whitehall is acting with an arrogance which is pissing off people within and without the political chain. I gather that, for example, the Novotel in Ipswich was sequestered at less than 48 hours notice. The staff had to be be fired becasue Serco employees were put in. It was previously the main business hotel for central Ipswich so all the associated dining and hosiptality spending spillover disappeared overnight. The local Council was powerless to intervene. This is building into a pressure cooker issue.

That's a bit misleading, you make it sound as though the hotel had no choice in the matter

In September Novotel Hotel submitted to Ipswich Borough Council a planning application asking for “extension to the existing hotel to provide an additional 57 guestrooms”. It said: “The board of Directors have made the decision to contract the hotel for the purpose of government use only

​​​​​​​

[Finningley Boy]

That's a bit misleading, you make it sound as though the hotel had no choice in the matter




It won't be out of a sense of humanity, it would be interesting to know what the Hotel operator is being paid against what their usual tur over would be for the period in question?

FB

[langleybaston]

Is there any local reaction, for or against?
Silence would confound a few people.

[skua]

Expat, I was given to understand it was involuntary by the Leader of Suffolk Council.

[Expatrick]

Expat, I was given to understand it was involuntary by the Leader of Suffolk Council.

Plenty of media entries, including statements by the owners / directors that the choice was theirs. The council did object and obtained an injunction which was subsequently overturned.

The owners of an Ipswich hotel have slammed a "draconian" injunction preventing them from accommodating more asylum seekers.

Fairview Hotels (Ipswich) Ltd, which owns the Novotel, has called on Ipswich Borough Council to resolve its concerns with the Government rather than imposing restrictions on the business after the Ipswich Star revealed the Greyfriars Road premises had 70 asylum seekers staying there. The emergency injunction granted by the High Court does not apply to the existing guests who have moved in, but bans any further arrivals and lasts until Monday (November 7) when there will be a further hearing.

​​​​​​​Ipswich Borough Council has lost its bid for a High Court injunction to prevent a hotel from housing asylum seekers. More than 70 migrants are already being accommodated at the four-star Novotel hotel in Ipswich town centre.

​​​​​​​In September Novotel Hotel submitted to Ipswich Borough Council a planning application asking for “extension to the existing hotel to provide an additional 57 guestrooms”. It said: “The board of Directors have made the decision to contract the hotel for the purpose of government use only. “This will affect jobs considerably so your role could be at risk of redundancy.”

[Finningley Boy]

But again, Expat,

The Novotel Hotel will be well remunerated for their largess. Or are saying that this is a purely Christian act of selflessness on their part?

FB

[Expatrick]

But again, Expat,

The Novotel Hotel will be well remunerated for their largess. Or are saying that this is a purely Christian act of selflessness on their part?

FB

LOL, no of course not! Simple business decision on their part. Guaranteed occupancy, guaranteed payment - what's not to like! (Oh, and as you seem to suggest, a bit of moral authority (in their eyes)).

[NutLoose]

They are look8ng at listing scampton Officers mess that will screw them up

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/bid-protect-historic-officers-mess-8289203

[chevvron]

LBC (radio) are on the case now mentioning it at least once or twice an hour; no mention of the fact the place is practically falling down though or the effort (ie money) which will have to be spent getting it into a fit state for habitation.!

[BEagle]

I hope that the 'Wright Memorial' OM bar doors have been preserved!

[chevvron]

"...did they really turn everything upside down in their search for a suitable location for this new tent city?"

I think the answer is a resounding NO. Clown 1 and 2 went for what they perceived to be path of least resistance. When we spoke with them at Linton they had 5 other "potential targets sites" all discounted on the flimsiest of reasons. I think the only Risk Assessment they did was to calculate how many locals they could &^%$ off and not lose a Tory seat.
I wonder if they considered Halton.
A lot of the accomodation is empty now and units are slowly moving out; the airfield is down to close by the end of 2027 (that's the latest I heard anyway) but the camp area which is a mile away could close earlier and much of the living quarters are in fairly good condition.
Henlow likewise appears to be 'on the brink' of becoming empty and once again, the living quarters are still in use.

[melmothtw]

It's not all quite so black and white, is it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsJT39oXwAYe4Rk?format=jpg&name=large

[mopardave]

It's not all quite so black and white, is it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsJT39oXwAYe4Rk?format=jpg&name=large
No doubt we abandoned many who "assisted" us so if he can substantiate his identity, he should be allowed to stay. I know what you'll say........"he disposed of his identity papers." Well then we have a problem. What on earth is wrong with making sure these unknowns are not allowed to wander about freely. If they are given safe and secure accommodation, what's the problem? Would you arrive in another country seeking asylum and then misbehave......I'm damn sure I wouldn't. I'd be too bloody grateful. Why the hell do we have former servicemen and no doubt women who aren't extended the same "courtesy"? Why are some of our own serving personel virtually living in squalor? Let's start taking care of our own before trying to make life better for god knows how many who often, show no gratitude or allegiance to this country or our way of life. Charity begins at home.....period!

[cynicalint]

BBC article on-line identifies him by name and picture, using the same picture the Independent used without pixilation. Done by Inayatulhaq Yasini and Swaminathan Natarajanne on 31 Aug 2022. May explain his presence in the Channel, or a red-herring article; there may be more to this case than meets the eye.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62566883

[downsizer]

BBC article on-line identifies him by name and picture, using the same picture the Independent used without pixilation. Done by Inayatulhaq Yasini and Swaminathan Natarajanne on 31 Aug 2022. May explain his presence in the Channel, or a red-herring article; there may be more to this case than meets the eye.....

Thats not the same picture in the BBC piece as on the newspaper cover?

[melmothtw]

Thats not the same picture in the BBC piece as on the newspaper cover?

Indeed, the BBC pilot is flying a Black Hawk while the Independent pilot is flying a Grand Caravan. Not the same person.

[Finningley Boy]

Anyone who assisted HM or other allied forces in Afghanistan shouldn't be threatened with being sent to Rwanda. You'd think their asylum process would be rather more straight forward and with a positive outcome which you could bank on. It would appear that administrative incompetence is the only conclusion one can arrive at, I just hope this kind of cart before the horse nonsense isn't a routine occurrence, but I'm that sure.

FB

[NutLoose]

Agreed FB,

There should be some way those that helped us in Afghanistan and got left behind, but made it out should be able to identify themselves to a consulate or Embassy in Europe and then be fast tracked over to the UK.

[NutLoose]

Meanwhile over at Wethersfield

https://www.planet-today.com/2023/03/uk-military-families-forced-to-leave.html

Military families living on a historic air base in Essex have been told they have to leave their homes, as the Home Office looks set to move asylum seekers onto the former RAF facility in a matter of days according to reports.

The families of British military servicemen have been told that they will need to vacate their homes to make way for male asylum seekers, many of whom will have entered the country as illegal migrants. Breitbart reports: A military wife and mother has revealed that her household has been informed that military families living on the MDP Wethersfield former Royal Air Force (RAF) base in Braintree, Essex will need to leave their homes to so far undisclosed locations.
This is so the government can house migrants at the facility as it tries to shift away from the controversial hotel migrant housing scheme. Speaking to The Express, the military mother said: “There are a lot of concerns about the impacts that it would have on their children because, you know, their children struggle a lot more with those things. So it’s quite hard for them, you know, having to uproot their children.” While they have been told that they must leave their homes, the government has yet to come up with alternative housing for approximately 24 military families. They will therefore be forced to temporarily live alongside the often unvetted migrants when they are shipped onto the base on April 1st. The base has erected a fence “about 100 metres” from the military family homes which will supposedly separate them from the incoming migrants, however the mother said that the fence is not sufficient to keep anyone from crossing, saying. “I don’t think it would keep my dog in,” she said.via @planettoday #PlanetToday: https://www.planet-today.com/2023/03/uk-military-families-forced-to-leave.html

[langleybaston]

Tell me that is not true.

The military covenant.

Oh! the disgrace. What have we become? I despair, I despair.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Agreed FB,

There should be some way those that helped us in Afghanistan and got left behind, but made it out should be able to identify themselves to a consulate or Embassy in Europe and then be fast tracked over to the UK.
i know of at least one flight out of Afghanistan that could have been used to bring people to safety. Sadly there were those that thought rescuing dogs was a higher priority.

[mopardave]

Meanwhile over at Wethersfield

https://www.planet-today.com/2023/03/uk-military-families-forced-to-leave.html
No way........surely to god we aren't that screwed up.....are we????? Either this is complete cobblers or the lunatics are running the asylum. Tell me this isn't so!

[NicolaJayne]

No way........surely to god we aren't that screwed up.....are we????? Either this is complete cobblers or the lunatics are running the asylum. Tell me this isn't so!
it's Breitbart

i don;t know the base in question but what;s the betting the Patch in question is an 'outside the wire' one rather an inside the wire ... interestingly a good few years ago the still in use SFA at Scampton was changed to be 'outside the wire' presumably to reduce the need to staff the guardroom etc once the CFS activities wound down in the mid 1990s leaving the Reds and various minor units on the camp

[vascodegama]

i know of at least one flight out of Afghanistan that could have been used to bring people to safety. Sadly there were those that thought rescuing dogs was a higher priority.
If we are thinking of the same one, the seats were available and offered.

[langleybaston]

Wethersfield: High Court injunction plan for air base migrants.
BBC radio online today.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

If we are thinking of the same one, the seats were available and offered.
Which begs the question as to why they were not snapped up if that was the case.
Sadly a whistle blower, Raphael Marshall, who worked as a desk officer in the Foreign Office,stated..."...clearance for Operation Ark came "at the direct expense" of thousands of Afghans left behind (https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/41257/html/) "

I see the petition with regards to Scampton is at almost 50,000 signatories. Shame that the petition in itself, titled "Stop RAF Scampton Being Turned into a Detention Camp" is grossly misleading. The guests will in no way shape or form be detained. That fact was clarified during discussions regarding Linton On Ouse when it became clear they would be free to roam and the Home Office imposed 10pm "curfew" amounted to nothing more than a welfare call to those who were adrift. .

https://www.change.org/p/stop-raf-scampton-being-turned-into-a-detention-camp

I wish Scampton and Weathersfield every success in blocking Home Office steam-roller tactics. Both sites are wholly unsuitable and if ithey are like Linton - even the refugee charities and welfare organisations said so!

[Ninthace]

There are over 50,000 accommoodated in hotels. There is no evidence that the likes of Scampton, Wethersfield, Catterick etc will have the capacity or even be cheaper, but it will make another good headline. Why not spend the money on processing those waiting for a decision and solve the problem the government created in the first place?

[mad_collie]

I wish Scampton and Weathersfield every success in blocking Home Office steam-roller tactics. Both sites are wholly unsuitable and if ithey are like Linton - even the refugee charities and welfare organisations said so!


Looks like it's a done deal. https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/government-confirms-raf-scampton-used-8302206?fbclid=IwAR29MPtDVAmkMbqfHy1ZkAjWzZN6SAMOLxwWHAWF-xD-OYizPzKrj3RELVk

[langleybaston]

Looks like it's a done deal. https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/government-confirms-raf-scampton-used-8302206?fbclid=IwAR29MPtDVAmkMbqfHy1ZkAjWzZN6SAMOLxwWHAWF-xD-OYizPzKrj3RELVk

Disgraceful.

My counter-proposal is tented cities on Flatholm and Steepholm in the Bristol Chhel just S of Welsh Coast. Bracing, and no risk of the migrants catching anything nasty off the natives. Nice views to the north.

[NutLoose]

Catterick too... that WILL be fun and games with the pongos there.

[langleybaston]

"In future, pongoes are to be referred to as soldiers"

[NutLoose]

Why? it's historic

[chevvron]

Disgraceful.

My counter-proposal is tented cities on Flatholm and Steepholm in the Bristol Chhel just S of Welsh Coast. Bracing, and no risk of the migrants catching anything nasty off the natives. Nice views to the north.
Why not Holbeach; nice flat area in the Wash?

[NutLoose]

There are over 50,000 accommoodated in hotels. There is no evidence that the likes of Scampton, Wethersfield, Catterick etc will have the capacity or even be cheaper, but it will make another good headline. Why not spend the money on processing those waiting for a decision and solve the problem the government created in the first place?


Simple fix, remove their Hotel accomodation full stop and turf them out onto the streets. ( all bar any Ukrainians or Afghanistanis that helped us.)

After all that is how they live in the likes of Calais, no wonder they wish to cross over to the UK, hotel, food and allowances. Before turfing them out scan their eyes and finger print them etc, so they can be picked up and deported as and when.

[charliegolf]

Make it the law that anyone who originates from a country deemed safe will be immediately returned there*, without access to the asylum laws. It would be a start, and deal with the Albanians at least.

CG

I mean, the next day, and as soon as arrest warrants have been discounted.

[langleybaston]

Why? it's historic

Did you not notice the quotation marks ...... the quote is a short version of an old folk-lore tale?

[NicolaJayne]

Make it the law that anyone who originates from a country deemed safe will be immediately returned there, without access to the asylum laws. It would be a start, and deal with the Albanians at least.

CG

define safe

especially given that you have all ready attempted to justify discrimination / defend those who discriminate against people with EA 2010 Protected Characteristics in another thread

[Ninthace]

Simple fix, remove their Hotel accomodation full stop and turf them out onto the streets. ( all bar any Ukrainians or Afghanistanis that helped us.)

After all that is how they live in the likes of Calais, no wonder they wish to cross over to the UK, hotel, food and allowances. Before turfing them out scan their eyes and finger print them etc, so they can be picked up and deported as and when.
Take it to Jet Blast

[Finningley Boy]

Take it to Jet Blast
Better still,

Take it to the Home Office!:ok:

FB

[Finningley Boy]

Take it to Jet Blast

Meanwhile over at Wethersfield

https://www.planet-today.com/2023/03/uk-military-families-forced-to-leave.html

So, where and what are the locations the military families being sent to? And why can't the channel gang be sent there instead?

FB

[retiredcrewman]

I see the petition with regards to Scampton is at almost 50,000 signatories. Shame that the petition in itself, titled "Stop RAF Scampton Being Turned into a Detention Camp" is grossly misleading. The guests will in no way shape or form be detained. That fact was clarified during discussions regarding Linton On Ouse when it became clear they would be free to roam and the Home Office imposed 10pm "curfew" amounted to nothing more than a welfare call to those who were adrift.

I wish Scampton and Weathersfield every success in blocking Home Office steam-roller tactics. Both sites are wholly unsuitable and if ithey are like Linton - even the refugee charities and welfare organisations said so!

SWB the petition was set up just after the Illegal Migration Bill was announced by the Govt. The proposed use of Scampton and Wethersfield was directly linked to the Bill by the Govt. The Bill makes provision for asylum seekers to be detained (p.13 S. 11 of the Bill) in fact it places a requirement on the Home Secretary to detain and remove asylum seekers within 28 days. Attempts to clarify the situation with the Home Office were stonewalled. The petition was named based on the information provided at the time. (15 March)
On 28/29 March the Home Office clarified the situation. Initially asylum seekers will not be detained at Scampton, they will be housed in accordance with current Home Office guidelines. Once the Illegal Migration Bill passes into law Scampton will be used to detain asylum seekers prior to their return to their country of origin or their removal to a third country (Rwanda).
So no the title is far from misleading. Whilst there are similarities with Linton it appears the Home Office have ‘learnt lessons’ and Scampton is being treated very differently.

Anyway sign the petition, the campaign continues.

[chevvron]

So, where and what are the locations the military families being sent to? And why can't the channel gang be sent there instead?

FB
MOD plods are being turfed out of their training base (Wethersfield - no 'a') along with their families; where they're going nobody seems to know.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

SWB the petition was set up just after the Illegal Migration Bill was announced by the Govt. The proposed use of Scampton and Wethersfield was directly linked to the Bill by the Govt. The Bill makes provision for asylum seekers to be detained (p.13 S. 11 of the Bill) in fact it places a requirement on the Home Secretary to detain and remove asylum seekers within 28 days. Attempts to clarify the situation with the Home Office were stonewalled. The petition was named based on the information provided at the time. (15 March)
On 28/29 March the Home Office clarified the situation. Initially asylum seekers will not be detained at Scampton, they will be housed in accordance with current Home Office guidelines. Once the Illegal Migration Bill passes into law Scampton will be used to detain asylum seekers prior to their return to their country of origin or their removal to a third country (Rwanda).
So no the title is far from misleading. Whilst there are similarities with Linton it appears the Home Office have ‘learnt lessons’ and Scampton is being treated very differently.

Anyway sign the petition, the campaign continues.
Thank you.

Just a word of caution ... don't believe a single thing the Home Office say. I know we were constantly lied to at Linton.


Has anyone seen what the security proposals will be? Inmates promising to stay in their rooms whilst awaiting the next phase of their journey.

[retiredcrewman]

Unfortunately the Home Office are being very cagey. They are making vague promises via intermediaries and so far no one has spoken to the community. Everything is being disseminated via vague briefing notes.
We are in touch with the Linton campaign team who have provided invaluable advice.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Unfortunately the Home Office are being very cagey. They are making vague promises via intermediaries and so far no one has spoken to the community. Everything is being disseminated via vague briefing notes.
We are in touch with the Linton campaign team who have provided invaluable advice.
Excellent. I have just spoken to those on the linton group.

The government "factsheets" are here... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/asylum-accommodation-factsheets


Note Scampton is "up to 2000 occupants"

And "free to roam" as I said before.
Hence detention remains a misleading word.

[retiredcrewman]

Yes we got the fact sheets thanks. Like I said once the legislation passes into law Scampton will detain people and as it’s retrospective legislation those who are originally housed there will then become detainees. Not sure how that will work out!

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

... Not sure how that will work out!
In a nutshell...it won't work out.

[retiredcrewman]

That’s what we’re hoping!

[BEagle]

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of the actual state of the infrastructure, barrack blocks etc. at Scampton?

What would be the cost of restoring them to an adequate standard for housing these illegal immigrants?

Aren't there any barracks in London or the South East which could be used instead?

[Finningley Boy]

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of the actual state of the infrastructure, barrack blocks etc. at Scampton?

What would be the cost of restoring them to an adequate standard for housing these illegal immigrants?

Aren't there any barracks in London or the South East which could be used instead?
I recall that when the RAF first returned in 2001 the government were looking at long term refurbishment, However, the cost was deemed too prohibitive. This, I imagine explains why one Hangar was near the need for demolition and the Officers' Mess was never re-opened. By 2019 the idea was to turn it into an Hotel. It will be interesting to see what funds may be found to repair all accommodation for 2,000 odd young men. Just that this time, these won't be in the RAF, and I imagine far more than have been billeted at anyone time in the past. It has to be said, who the hell pre-1994 ever imagined this would be how things might pan out.

FB

[retiredcrewman]

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of the actual state of the infrastructure, barrack blocks etc. at Scampton?

What would be the cost of restoring them to an adequate standard for housing these illegal immigrants?



This question has been raised. The HO have said via the local MP that there are 3 of the newer (1950s) blocks that have been identified as suitable and the old WO & SNCOs Mess. They are currently empty and have been for some time. From afar they look structurally sound but no idea on the inside.

[retiredcrewman]

…..Officers' Mess was never re-opened. By 2019 the idea was to turn it into an Hotel.…

FB

The Mess is currently boarded up but again looks sound. It requires a full asbestos assessment prior to any work. Scampton Holdings planned to turn it into a hotel as part of their regeneration plan. As it does not require demolishing and rebuilding this was part of the initial phase. Provision had been made to incorporate the heritage of the building in the refurb.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Asbestos is going to be problematic. Fine if undisturbed but any renovation to the buildings is going to get very costly, very quickly.

A bit hazy now, but I seem to recall one issue at Linton was the electrical supply to the base and what the HO said they would need. In the order of 10-15 megawatts!
Cost to get the required level was prohibitive and estimated by the grid to be a 3 to 5 year timescale.

Another stopper was the isolated location was against HO own guidelines in that centres should be in urban environments where integration would be much easier and not overburden local resources etc.

[The Oberon]

I do have a dog in the ring as I live in Scampton Village and was based there from 1970 - 80. In addition to the possible asbestos and other problems, nobody seems to have mentioned the abandoned fuel pipelines that crisscross the airfield, as I remember it the original plan was to have a central storage area and a pipe network leading to each pan. It didn't work and bowsers were reintroduced. The network was not decommissioned properly and just abandoned, so, to my way of thinking there is a rusting, fuel contaminated network still nestling beneath the ground.
I do not know how long it lasts but during the Blue Steel days, there were many HTP offloads carried out straight onto the grass. There is also the old SSA.
I am not 100% sure on this next one but I have heard that the men held at Scampton will have had their applications refused and will be awaiting deportation and that the active runway is one of the reasons why Scampton was chosen. I am aware that the runway was refurbished a few years ago but only to allow the Red's hawks to operate, nothing heavier. Standing by to be corrected.

[Finningley Boy]

I do have a dog in the ring as I live in Scampton Village and was based there from 1970 - 80. In addition to the possible asbestos and other problems, nobody seems to have mentioned the abandoned fuel pipelines that crisscross the airfield, as I remember it the original plan was to have a central storage area and a pipe network leading to each pan. It didn't work and bowsers were reintroduced. The network was not decommissioned properly and just abandoned, so, to my way of thinking there is a rusting, fuel contaminated network still nestling beneath the ground.
I do not know how long it lasts but during the Blue Steel days, there were many HTP offloads carried out straight onto the grass. There is also the old SSA.
I am not 100% sure on this next one but I have heard that the men held at Scampton will have had their applications refused and will be awaiting deportation and that the active runway is one of the reasons why Scampton was chosen. I am aware that the runway was refurbished a few years ago but only to allow the Red's hawks to operate, nothing heavier. Standing by to be corrected.
Interesting to note your reference to the runway, I take your point about the Red Arrows, but weren't HHA operating some larger more robust types including an SU-22 and a Buccaneer? But it is interesting, regarding the base's long immediate future, should it be maintained for flights to Rwanda?!?!

FB

[The Oberon]

but weren't HHA operating some larger more robust types including an SU-22 and a Buccaneer?

FB

I am frequently up there with the dogs, there was an SU22 but I never saw a Buccaneer. They also had a pair of Hunters which were the only ones I saw in the air.

[Finningley Boy]

I am frequently up there with the dogs, there was an SU22 but I never saw a Buccaneer. They also had a pair of Hunters which were the only ones I saw in the air.

They had the Buccaneer and an ex-Luftwaffe F-4F, but they were works in progress I believe.

FB

[chevvron]

I am aware that the runway was refurbished a few years ago but only to allow the Red's hawks to operate, nothing heavier. Standing by to be corrected.
Nothing in the AIP (MIL) about Scampton's facilities (perhaps somebody has a copy of the ERS to hand with the entry still there) such as PCN/LCG, lighting or aids still available but I would think the runway surface would be capable of accepting aircraft like B767 or A330 types at least; I think it was a 767 they were going to use for the aborted Rwanda trip from Boscombe so they would probably aim for something similar if they wanted to use Scampton and in any case, when they re-built the runway for V bombers back in the '50s, the surface would need hefty reinforcement because there would be no telling how long it was meant to last.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

I'm pretty sure Scampton runway will handle a PA-28.
judging by HO succes rate to date, it is all they will need.

[mad_collie]

I'm pretty sure Scampton runway will hancle PA-28.
judging by HO succes rate to date, it is all they will need.
The Shadow fleet bolt holed there a few years back when Waddington was getting resurfaced.

[NutLoose]

It’s not really the weight of the aircraft but it’s footprint.

[NutLoose]

I have been thinking is there other possible sites available and an urban exploration site brought up some.

Here are some

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/h-m-p-northeye-march-23.135047/

[mahogany bob]

Why is a r/w needed?
short bus trip to Waddo ,round the new bypass ,would do!

[retiredcrewman]

Why is a r/w needed?
short bus trip to Waddo ,round the new bypass ,would do!

Scampton Holdings wanted to keep the airfield open. They wanted R313 to stay and anticipated the reds continuing to use it. They wanted to build a viewing area as part of the heritage site. Outside of the reds practice times the airfield would have been available for GA and the aspiration was that going forward it would be used as part of the new R&D enterprise park.

[Sideshow Bob]

It’s not really the weight of the aircraft but it’s footprint.
Actually, you're both sort of right, it's the weight of the aircraft and the surface area that weight is distributed over; when calculating the ACN, the main elements are number of wheels (undercarridge layout), size and pressure of tyre (how much surface area of the tyre is in contact with the ground), and flexability of the pavement you're going to be trampling over. Obviously, as the weight of the aircraft goes up so does the ACN.

[skua]

Talk of ACNs and parking area etc reminds us that Manston is the obvious option.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

I have been thinking is there other possible sites available and an urban exploration site brought up some.

Here are some

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/h-m-p-northeye-march-23.135047/
Catterick is in the sights now too.

[Ninthace]

Reading Jail is still up for grabs I believe.

Some one should write a ballad

[chevvron]

Talk of ACNs and parking area etc reminds us that Manston is the obvious option.
I did say this earlier but as usual, you lot ignored me :rolleyes:
Manston has a lot going for it but I'm not sure how much 'gear' Mrs Gloag sold off when she closed the airfield; certainly she got rid of the radar and ILS; she would certainly have 'asset stripped' the place as much as possible. Maybe Riveroak and the CAA can be prevailed on to allow a few flights out during daylight (no lighting) and in VMC before they instal new systems which is not scheduled to happen before about 2026; course they could always decide the MOD could approve flights under the same conditions with the approval of Riveroak.
Equally Scampton could be used for daylight/VMC operations or maybe Peel Airports would allow use of Finningley; I don't think they've 'asset stripped' there yet but it might happen soon.
I should add that neither Manston nor Finningley are MOD owned hence there might be some sort of opposition to using them.

[Sky Sports]

A prediction;

Within 6 months of the first immigrant arrival, there will be a 'disturbance' because it's not up to standard and the Scampton accommodation will be burnt down!

[Expatrick]

A prediction;

Within 6 months of the first immigrant arrival, there will be a 'disturbance' because it's not up to standard and the Scampton accommodation will be burnt down!

As was pointed out here recently, they don't come for hotels or other temporary / ad hoc accommodation - they come for houses.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Unless the locals get organised, Scampton is screwed.

OK, whilst we are on with predictions.

From the PM " [Rishi Sunak] is showing leadership on this issue by bringing forward proposals to provide accommodation at Catterick Garrison barracks in his constituency."
Prediction1: Within a matter of weeks it will be announced that unfortunately Catterick is not-suitable for asylum seeker accommodation [insert reason here] but our PM at least show leadership in offering it in HIS own constituency.

Prediction 2: Within months of announcing AS accommodation at the heart of military and ex-military towns and villages there will be a more sinister outcome than just a "disturbance". It is feared by Counter Terrorism that some of those entering the UK are being bank-rolled and are here for nefarious reasons. This is the Vipers Nest scenario mentioned earlier.

Prediction 3: Notwithstanding 2 above... Within a year LoO will be back on the agenda as a site.

[bugged on the right]

With respect to Satco's prediction 2, I think it's in very poor taste to locate unscreened asylum seekers anywhere near the location of service families where a partner is on operations.

[langleybaston]

Unless the locals get organised, Scampton is screwed.

OK, whilst we are on with predictions.

From the PM " [Rishi Sunak] is showing leadership on this issue by bringing forward proposals to provide accommodation at Catterick Garrison barracks in his constituency."
Prediction1: Within a matter of weeks it will be announced that unfortunately Catterick is not-suitable for asylum seeker accommodation [insert reason here] but our PM at least show leadership in offering it in HIS own constituency.

Prediction 2: Within months of announcing AS accommodation at the heart of military and ex-military towns and villages there will be a more sinister outcome than just a "disturbance". It is feared by Counter Terrorism that some of those entering the UK are being bank-rolled and are here for nefarious reasons. This is the Vipers Nest scenario mentioned earlier.

Prediction 3: Notwithstanding 2 above... Within a year LoO will be back on the agenda as a site.

P 4
No deportations to Rwanda.
P 5
Ajj inmates will F O BEFORE detention becomes law
P 6
Scampton will cost a bouncing bomb

[Fishtailed]

Looks like Gary Lineker was right, UK gov is introducing concentration camps in the UK can't believe it

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

No, he was not right (if that is what he said - I have paid zero notice to the hype surrounding GL and the BBC) ,
There is a big difference between concentration camps and what these proposed sites will be.

[Sloppy Link]

I have been thinking is there other possible sites available and an urban exploration site brought up some.

Here are some

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/h-m-p-northeye-march-23.135047/

Aldergrove. I’ll just leave that there….

[Bob Viking]

Looks like Gary Lineker was right, UK gov is introducing concentration camps in the UK can't believe it

Are you fricking kidding me?! With the amount of media scrutiny and attention the proposed camps will get they’re more likely to be better than a 5 Star glamping resort. If they ever happen.

BV

[Ninthace]

Are you fricking kidding me?! With the amount of media scrutiny and attention the proposed camps will get they’re more likely to be better than a 5 Star glamping resort. If they ever happen.

BV
Depends which media! The Fail or Torygraph will go into full bitch mode if the standard of accommodation is anything other than bare boards.

[langleybaston]

Depends which media! The Fail or Torygraph will go into full bitch mode if the standard of accommodation is anything other than bare boards.


as will I and others. An upgrade from Calais.

[Finningley Boy]

Aldergrove. I’ll just leave that there….

I doubt there'll be anything selected, no matter how relatively suitable, outside England. Despite, the professed diversity and accommodation for all except English Tories in Scotland and Wales, the masks will slip off straight away at any suggestion of accommodating channel migrants at say Arbroath? The problem will instantly become an English one. If I'm wrong, then Humza, I'd have thought, would have made a public play to take advantage of the opportunity by now?!?!?!? I imagine, we're all as bad as each other when put to the test.

FB

[langleybaston]

I doubt there'll be anything selected, no matter how relatively suitable, outside England. Despite, the professed diversity and accommodation for all except English Tories in Scotland and Wales, the masks will slip off straight away at any suggestion of accommodating channel migrants at say Arbroath? The problem will instantly become an English one. If I'm wrong, then Humza, I'd have thought, would have made a public play to take advantage of the opportunity by now?!?!?!? I imagine, we're all as bad as each other when put to the test.

FB

Not quite. I see four categories, with subsets in each:

Those who are receptive to migrants in their neighbourhood,.
NIMBYs who are basically receptive to migrants, both legal and illegal .
MIMBYs who are basically receptive to legal migrants with a good case and who behave.
NIMBYs who believe the bus is full, not even standing room, and would station the Brigade of Ghurkas along the beach.

NB definition of legal and illegal is a separate subject

[mopardave]

Looks like Gary Lineker was right, UK gov is introducing concentration camps in the UK can't believe it

Oh do stop! As for Lineker.........he should stick to talking about men running around after a ball!

[Finningley Boy]

Scottish Refugee Council condemns 'racist' Government language | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23431737.scottish-refugee-council-condemns-racist-government-language/)

Here we go, has this Scottish Refugee Council suggested to the Home Office that they can find room for taking refugees in? Is Scotland in the process of taking in refugees from the Channel Boats? I will stand corrected if they are meeting their rhetoric.

FB

[chevvron]

Scottish Refugee Council condemns 'racist' Government language | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23431737.scottish-refugee-council-condemns-racist-government-language/)

Here we go, has this Scottish Refugee Council suggested to the Home Office that they can find room for taking refugees in? Is Scotland in the process of taking in refugees from the Channel Boats? I will stand corrected if they are meeting their rhetoric.

FB
Send 'em all there; they have ferries moored on the rivers already where some are kept.

[Finningley Boy]

Send 'em all there; they have ferries moored on the rivers already where some are kept.
As I said I'd stand corrected if they were already taking in numbers of asylum seekers as well, but I can't see what the Scottish Refugee Council are complaining about, regarding the UK Government, if barges etc are already being used to house the numbers in Scotland?

FB

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

The hypocricy of Patel.
Adamanat that Linton was good but she's now fighting to stop the same in her own backyard.

Former home secretary Priti Patel is helping her local council in Essex with attempts to stop the Home Office using a former RAF station to house migrants.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11936877/Tories-war-migrant-housing-MPs-threaten-legal-action-20-000-day-flotel-barge.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton&fbclid=IwAR2AN_hhXverMFonDRIyw8nGvufi5YSTrRRhOfiZDdu7hmnKC9w GvbDpiAY

[Rockie_Rapier]

Is it just me? Surely this thread should be in Jet Blast?

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

If it isn't to your taste, you don't have to jump in and read it.
It is VERY relevent to Military personnel at the bases being marked as fit for asylum centres.

[Ninthace]

If it isn't to your taste, you don't have to jump in and read it.
It is VERY relevent to Military personnel at the bases being marked as fit for asylum centres.
How many Service personnel are affected at Weathersfield and Scampton? As distinct from former Service personnel who have settled in the immediate area.

[chevvron]

How many Service personnel are affected at Weathersfield and Scampton? As distinct from former Service personnel who have settled in the immediate area.
WETHERSFIELD - no 'A'
If by 'affected' if you include MOD Police; their training base and all their personnel (families included) have been told to vacate.

[Ninthace]

I wonder if the MoD Plod and their families will be offered better digs? I presume some of the families could be well dug in there so it could be quite an upheaval for them. I never had a quarter for much more than 2 years and short notice moves were part of the Ts and Cs. It could be worse for civvies like the Police.

Who is affected at Scampton?

[MPN11]

The barge was recently refurbished after an inspection by a regulator, which described it as an 'aggressive and oppressive environment' after being used by the Dutch government to house asylum seekers a few years ago. Menories of the Coastel at Stanley. How dare they have put Service personnel into such an environment? I found it perfectly acceptable, but then I was ashore and out of it for 12+ hours a day, at work.

[cheekychimp]

I wonder if the MoD Plod and their families will be offered better digs? I presume some of the families could be well dug in there so it could be quite an upheaval for them. I never had a quarter for much more than 2 years and short notice moves were part of the Ts and Cs. It could be worse for civvies like the Police.

Who is affected at Scampton?
The families in quarters there, it's still used for overspill from Waddington.

[Ninthace]

The families in quarters there, it's still used for overspill from Waddington.
Does the plan move them out or leave them there?

[cheekychimp]

Does the plan move them out or leave them there?
At the moment they're staying.

[langleybaston]

Menories of the Coastel at Stanley. How dare they have put Service personnel into such an environment? I found it perfectly acceptable, but then I was ashore and out of it for 12+ hours a day, at work.

Quite so. The commissioned Mobile Met Unit blokes frequently regale me with tales of two bunks and a wash basin in a rabbit hutch, but they soldiered on and most of the stories contain humour. "Everybody was in the same boat" Ho Ho.

A very drunken Flt Lt forecaster was thrust into his pit, asleep already, and vast amounts of Mess breakfast cereal poured over him.

[If there was a shortage of cereal, blame Met].

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

How many Service personnel are affected at Weathersfield and Scampton? As distinct from former Service personnel who have settled in the immediate area.
NoNinthace I drove past Scampton today and there was a lot of evidence of occupied quarters - not sure how many (if any) are in private hands now, nor how the poulation there splits across serving/ex-serving/civilian. In reality the main take away point is that these asylum camps should not be on anyone's doorstep whilst the occupants are free to roam, and overwhelm the locals 3 to 1.

[Ninthace]

NoNinthace I drove past Scampton today and there was a lot of evidence of occupied quarters - not sure how many (if any) are in private hands now, nor how the poulation there splits across serving/ex-serving/civilian. In reality the main take away point is that these asylum camps should not be on anyone's doorstep whilst the occupants are free to roam, and overwhelm the locals 3 to 1.
Wherever they go, they are going to be on someone's doorstep, that is a fact of life on a small island. It also seems whoever's doorstep they end up on will not want them there, Equally, no one has shown that wherever they end up will be cheaper than where they are now, and nobody wants to pay what they cost now, let alone in the future. The only solution I can see is to divert the funds spent on moving and reaccommodating them to processing them.

[ORAC]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/13/planning-thwart-migrant-camp-proposal-dambusters-base/

Planning coup could thwart migrant camp proposal for Dambusters base

A council has pulled off a planning coup that could thwart Home Office proposals to turn the Dambusters’ former base into a migrant camp (https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/25/dambusters-officers-mess-could-listed-thwart-plans-migrant-camp/).

RAF Scampton, the former home of the Dambusters squadron and the Red Arrows (https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/21/red-arrows-could-move-migrant-camp-dambusters-raf-base-goes/), was on Thursday given extra legal protection from the scheme by being included in a new local regeneration plan.

West Lindsey District Council believes that could provide the legal ammunition it needs to shoot down the Home Office proposal to turn the former RAF base (https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/06/migrant-camp-will-ruin-legacy-of-dambusters/) into a camp for 1,700 asylum-seekers.

The site has been designated an “opportunity area” under the new local plan for central Lincolnshire. This is largely because the council has negotiated a £300 million deal with developers to preserve the historic base as an operational aviation and aerospace hub and national heritage site.

It means the Home Office could be found to be in breach of planning rules if it goes ahead with its asylum camp. The council has already begun legal action by sending a pre-action letter to the Home Office ahead of seeking a judicial review of the asylum scheme.

The council will use its new designation to argue to the High Court that the camp cannot go ahead without wrecking the £300 million regeneration scheme and falling foul of planning laws.

Sally Grindrod-Smith, West Lindsey’s director of planning, said: “Today is a landmark moment as any future proposals for the site will be required to follow due process and conform with this policy [to regenerate RAF Scampton as an aerospace and heritage site].

“It is clear the Home Office’s recent announcement regarding RAF Scampton has not considered the key material planning matters and has not paid due attention to statutory processes.”

[Finningley Boy]

Fair enough, assuming the applicants can speak passable English and don't have an issue with handling certain foods. :) (Positive vetting for some positions apply, of course.)
Footnote: they shouldn't expect their hosts to bend over backwards to accommodate their guest status. Accept and respect our culture. Full stop.
And I could tell you all a personal story, currently unfolding, about the hoops I'm going through to prove I have the right to work in the UK, that I am a UK citizen etc. Passport, SC clearance, DBS certificate, proof of address, CV and employment history over the last five years, not good enough. I now have to upload all into some trust advisor government "cloud". All this before my new company can start paying me, the thing is, I have simply transferred under the oversight of the client from one company, which has just lost it's due accreditation, to another.

FB

[NutLoose]

It would be grossly unfair though, keen hard working individuals that used to freely travel to the U.K. as part of the EU to seasonally pick fruit to support their families back home now find themselves barred, while you are proposing allowing illegal immigrants who on the whole are not wanted here to take their work on. Immigrants who we have no details on, who for all we know could well be a security risk.

[Expatrick]

It would be grossly unfair though, keen hard working individuals that used to freely travel to the U.K. as part of the EU to seasonally pick fruit to support their families back home now find themselves barred, while you are proposing allowing illegal immigrants who on the whole are not wanted here to take their work on. Immigrants who we have no details on, who for all we know could well be a security risk.

Good point.

[chevvron]

According to another forum, some 'people who travel round in caravans' have torn part of the fence down presumably to establish an illegal camp.
Course being a weekend, there'll be nobody there to do anything about it.

[retiredcrewman]

According to another forum, some 'people who travel round in caravans' have torn part of the fence down presumably to establish an illegal camp.
Course being a weekend, there'll be nobody there to do anything about it.

I believe that someone has seen the HHA aircraft wrapped in white ‘plastic’ parked at 22 threshold and mistaken them for caravans. From a distance it is difficult to see clearly what they are. Also DIO are now in charge of the site and have 24/7 civilian security - no reports of fences being damaged just the odd ‘urban explorer’ climbing over to nose around.

[chevvron]

Apparently an application has been made by 'RAF Heritage' to West Lindsey District Council for 'Listed Building Consent' to allow the removal of 'The Dog's' grave and its memorial to RAF Marham.

[NutLoose]

Apparently an application has been made by 'RAF Heritage' to West Lindsey District Council for 'Listed Building Consent' to allow the removal of 'the Dog's' grave and its memorial to RAF Marham.


Which in part thwarts what the local council is trying to do in building a heritage site as part of overall scheme, it strikes me as archaeologically plundering the site and its history.

[chevvron]

Application was made by Wg Cdr Erica Ferguson on the grounds that the fate of the heritage site status may be at risk even though it's already 'Listed' Grade II.
It was in the Daily Mail so it must be true.

[retiredcrewman]

The RAF have applied to remove the grave to Marham on the grounds that the Home Office plans mean that the heritage centre will not go ahead and the grave will not be safeguarded/maintained. Public planning meeting this evening (5th July)

[David Thompson]

The application , Planning Application No 146711 , was made on the 9 May 2023 and the location given was Hanger (sic) 2 , RAF Scampton .

I have a copy of the application but don't have the facility/nous to post it , however it states ;
"Listed building consent to remove the railings , excavate and remove the grave marker and any zooarchaeological material for relocation ."

[Finningley Boy]

The application , Planning Application No 146711 , was made on the 9 May 2023 and the location given was Hanger (sic) 2 , RAF Scampton .

I have a copy of the application but don't have the facility/nous to post it , however it states ;
"Listed building consent to remove the railings , excavate and remove the grave marker and any zooarchaeological material for relocation ."
An utter and absolute disgrace. This is our modern quartered witted establishment's shallow grasp of our own history.

FB

[retiredcrewman]

The application has been rejected. FWIW I think the RAF were trying to do the right thing and my worry now is that over time the hangars and ‘grave’ will be left to deteriorate.

[David Thompson]

The application has been rejected. FWIW I think the RAF were trying to do the right thing and my worry now is that over time the hangars and ‘grave’ will be left to deteriorate.
Some details in the local media ;

https://mylocal.co.uk/lincolnshire/feed/84776

[downsizer]

I just don't see what these people hope to achieve. There simply isn't the interest these days to preserve somewhere like Scampton. The best thing to do would have been to move the dog, if it's even there, to Marham.

[cheekychimp]

I just don't see what these people hope to achieve. There simply isn't the interest these days to preserve somewhere like Scampton. The best thing to do would have been to move the dog, if it's even there, to Marham.
Try living here, it's awful. Every lamppost has a sign saying 'Save our Scampton' or something similar, save it for what? If that film hadn't been made no-one would give a monkey's.

[downsizer]

I'm all for the preservation of history, but I can't see the benefit of any preservation of a relatively remote derelict airfield.

[ItsonlyMeagain]

Scampton is only 5.1 miles north of Lincoln City centre with a population 97.5K, so I guess about 3 miles from the edge. I’m sure there are few there who would describe it as remote.

Me

[Bob Viking]

I’m with Downsizer on this. We’re all either ex military on here or have a keen interest in military matters. We obviously care about our old bases and squadrons (and dogs!). We can’t honestly expect the public to get overly excited about the remains of a long-dead dog and the crumbly old buildings surrounding the grave site. They don’t even care about the people currently serving let alone those that served 80 years ago.

I think there are better things to get excited over. And yes I understand that this could be viewed as symptomatic of a wider malaise. But if you want public support try whipping up a frenzy about current pay and living conditions. At least that will benefit those that currently serve. Maybe then they might understand and care a little more about history and traditions.

BV

[Barksdale Boy]

Scampton is only 5.1 miles north of Lincoln City centre with a population 97.5K, so I guess about 3 miles from the edge. I’m sure there are few there who would describe it as remote.

Me
Not far from Welton, either.

[Asturias56]

"They don’t even care about the people currently serving let alone those that served 80 years ago."

Well they do - maybe for 5 minutes as they butter their toast and read the screaming headline in the Mail - then they forget

[NutLoose]

I blame all this fuss on that damned person that ran it over, no wonder he didn't stop, if he knew the stink it would cause he was wise not too..

The application , Planning Application No 146711 , was made on the 9 May 2023 and the location given was Hanger (sic) 2 , RAF Scampton .

I have a copy of the application but don't have the facility/nous to post it , however it states ;
"Listed building consent to remove the railings , excavate and remove the grave marker and any zooarchaeological material for relocation ."

If it is listed, I do wonder how they removed the name from the gravestone 3 years ago and did they apply for planning permission to change it?

A spokesman for the RAF said: “As part of an ongoing review of its historical assets, the RAF have replaced the gravestone of Guy Gibson’s dog at RAF Scampton. The new gravestone tells the story of Guy Gibson’s dog, but its name has been removed.”

[chevvron]

I'm all for the preservation of history, but I can't see the benefit of any preservation of a relatively remote derelict airfield.
Derelict certainly because MOD wouldn't keep it maintained but remote? It's on the A15 which links Kingston with Lincoln.
Course in the normal course of events the pongos would have moved in and taken it over thereby ruining it as an airfield; even derelict RAF accommodation is better than the pongos normally get allocated.

[Gordon Brown]

I’m with Downsizer on this. We’re all either ex military on here or have a keen interest in military matters. We obviously care about our old bases and squadrons (and dogs!). We can’t honestly expect the public to get overly excited about the remains of a long-dead dog and the crumbly old buildings surrounding the grave site. They don’t even care about the people currently serving let alone those that served 80 years ago.

I think there are better things to get excited over. And yes I understand that this could be viewed as symptomatic of a wider malaise. But if you want public support try whipping up a frenzy about current pay and living conditions. At least that will benefit those that currently serve. Maybe then they might understand and care a little more about history and traditions.

BV

What about the £300m investment that WLDC has secured? Lincolnshire is one of Englands poorest counties and this investment would be huge for the local area.

I also consider the proposal for a 7000 acre solar farm in the same area which will cover Grade 1,2&3 farmland another egregious example of the contempt with which this government holds its rural citizens. Right or wrong, it was these people that got Brexit over the line and this is the thanks they get. Denied a huge local investment and certainly forced into accepting these damned eyesore solar panels (public enquiry? Don’t make me laugh).

No solar panels in the Home Counties though. None in the brownfield sites.

I can’t believe it has come to me writing this but I feel utterly disenfranchised. Which major political party actually cares for the rural constituencies?

Hey ho. What do I know?

[cheekychimp]

What about the £300m investment that WLDC has secured? Lincolnshire is one of Englands poorest counties and this investment would be huge for the local area.

I also consider the proposal for a 7000 acre solar farm in the same area which will cover Grade 1,2&3 farmland another egregious example of the contempt with which this government holds its rural citizens. Right or wrong, it was these people that got Brexit over the line and this is the thanks they get. Denied a huge local investment and certainly forced into accepting these damned eyesore solar panels (public enquiry? Don’t make me laugh).

No solar panels in the Home Counties though. None in the brownfield sites.

I can’t believe it has come to me writing this but I feel utterly disenfranchised. Which major political party actually cares for the rural constituencies?

Hey ho. What do I know?
I'm Lincolnshire born and bred, all my family are farmers in the Scampton/7000 acres area and I'm currently based here, so I can sympathise to an extent. But, most of the complaints about the change of use of Scampton and the 7000 acres are pure Nimbyism. The lost opportunities and cancellation of the £300m investment is the real tragedy here, the constant whining about 'loss of heritage' 'forgetting our brave boy's' 'how can they let such a historic base house immigrants ' etc etc is becoming boring. There are hundreds of old air bases, Scampton is just one more.
As for the 7000 acres, there have been no compulsory purchases, it's up to the land owners what they do with it, a lot of the top grade farm land round here is used to grow Willow, Miscanthus, Maize and other crops that go straight to bio digesters and power stations to provide renewable energy, so the loss of food production isn't much of an argument. People just don't like the look of them, fair enough, but until we have cheap, renewable and clean energy from other sources we're stuck with them.

[Gordon Brown]

I'm Lincolnshire born and bred, all my family are farmers in the Scampton/7000 acres area and I'm currently based here, so I can sympathise to an extent. But, most of the complaints about the change of use of Scampton and the 7000 acres are pure Nimbyism. The lost opportunities and cancellation of the £300m investment is the real tragedy here, the constant whining about 'loss of heritage' 'forgetting our brave boy's' 'how can they let such a historic base house immigrants ' etc etc is becoming boring. There are hundreds of old air bases, Scampton is just one more.
As for the 7000 acres, there have been no compulsory purchases, it's up to the land owners what they do with it, a lot of the top grade farm land round here is used to grow Willow, Miscanthus, Maize and other crops that go straight to bio digesters and power stations to provide renewable energy, so the loss of food production isn't much of an argument. People just don't like the look of them, fair enough, but until we have cheap, renewable and clean energy from other sources we're stuck with them.

Valid. I mentioned the 7000 acres because to me it shows the disregard from central govt for its regions. I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be compulsory purchase orders. And the fields where I live have no miscanthus or willow but barley, oats and wheat. The perpetual short termism of all govts cannot see past their noses. I get the renewable argument and I don’t want to go all Jet Blast, but we need some level of food security and there are plenty of other brownfield areas suitable for solar panels, alongside the rooves of all these warehouses that are being thrown up all over the country so that we can block the roads with gas guzzlers to allow us all to get that widget we can’t survive without in under 24 hours.

It’s not about the bl**dy dog. And I am ex- six foot.

I rest.

[Asturias56]

"Which major political party actually cares for the rural constituencies?"

None - almost everyone with a vote lives in or near the cities. There are 92,000 farmers in the UK - that's1.4% of the populationr. 300,000 people work on farms, 2.4 million in food and accommodation.

Its the smallest of all the main employer groups

[Auxtank]

So, decision in the High Court tomorrow morning then. Here's to you RAF Scampton and I sincerely hope things go as they should - legally.
Gov's so called "Emergency powers of acquistion". What a load of rot.

[chevvron]

According to the 'Mail Online', portakabins have been appearing on the 'runway' at Scampton in the last few days.
OK we all know it's probably not 'the runway' but that's all the Mail will know about airfields.

[NutLoose]

Apart form my previous comments re why should we be accommodating them in the first place, the other thing I see is the knock on effect.

The loss of a £300 million programme to bring wealth and tourism to the area, building on the site and creating something of worth that future generations can enjoy and take pride in. I could accept it if Scampton was a run down airfield with no viable future, but this is not the case.

Hotels the country over turned into glorified doss houses by their owners in search of a quick buck, while making the hotel staff redundant adding to the unemployed and the knock on effects of that, plus the damage to the tourism industry as hotel after hotel closes to house these immigrants.

NO ONE should lose their lively hood and accommodation (which is often tied to hotel workers) to house a migrant who is or has not paid into the system.

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2022-11-18/staff-lose-jobs-as-first-asylum-seekers-arrive-at-hotel

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2023-06-27/staff-set-to-lose-jobs-at-asylum-hotel-as-mp-brands-decision-outrageous

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/up-40-staff-yorkshire-hotel-25546311

.. (https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/up-40-staff-yorkshire-hotel-25546311)

[Stockportcounty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-67274519.amp

[Bob Viking]

Asylum seekers plan for disused RAF stations lawful, judge rules https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67637439

I guess the fate of Scampton is pretty much sealed then.

BV

[beamer]

I have no special affinity to Scampton, nor 617 and certainly not the RAFAT but it saddens my heart that this particular airfield is destined for use as an asylum centre. There were plans, however fanciful, to turn the Base into a living heritage centre, now apparently no more.

[pax britanica]

Finningley boy

I hope you were never a pilot as you clearly cannot tell right from left if you think the current government is radical left wing .

I am not one for glorification of things that happened a long time ago but Scampton would seem a poor choice when there are many other anonymous military bases around . But then the advisers to these people would probably think picking Scampton is a great idea to excite the Express and Mail loonies to deflect attention away from whatever other cock up or criminality they're involved with this week.

Even if it is no longer an airfield ,and it doesnt need to be, but some form of preservation of the Ops and crew rooms at Scampton would seem a reasonable reminder/memorial of the past in the same way that Biggin Hill is the poster boy for the Battle of Britain.

[MPN11]

At least the Uxbridge bunker survived, while the rest of the Station was demolished.

[DogTailRed2]

Move the dog and grave to a museum. Move Gibsons office. Job done.

[Martin the Martian]

Watching the news report earlier, I cannot help but wonder how many of the protesters around the station used to complain just as bitterly about the noise when the RAF was in residence, and about the people who used to come and watch RAFAT practice. It reminds me many years ago of when Land's End Airport first mooted the idea of tarmacing its grass runways; cue lots of protests about a new Heathrow, until at a public meeting the idea of using it as a transit camp for travellers was mentioned if the airfield had to close. It caused quite a turn around in local opinion, seemingly.

It was notable that the reasons why Scampton is unsuitable are EXACTLY the same as why the Bibbi Stockholm should not have been moored in Portland. Exactly. With the addition of the heritage and history of the site, which probably few of them knew about or even cared for before the use of it as an immigration camp was mentioned for the first time.

[mahogany bob]

looks like Scampton IS going to be home to 2000 young male asylum seekers as a temporary home whilst awaiting deportation.

What will they do ?

The area where the portacabins are located is bleak - totally exposed to winds whistling across the airfield - I know I spent weeks on QRA in a portacabin there in the Vulcan days.

Will they be free to roam? If not It will be easy to escape through the flimsy wire!

If given freedom they will head straight to Lincoln ( cathedral quarter first ) - 5 miles-and what will they do there - presumably with little or no money ?

Temptation must be to turn to crime etc or to escape before deportation?

Will the police, hospitals etc be able to cope?

The 300 million investment which could transform a vastly improved Lincoln - with its amazing university - will inevitably be cancelled ? Sir ‘Edward ‘Leigh is hoping for a comprimise solution which I cannot see being workable?

All the potential for a total disaster!

Can anyone come up with a brighter outlook?

[Trumpet trousers]

Notwithstanding the rights/wrongs of housing asylum seekers, and the influx of Portacabin type units to Scampton (despite the Council imposing a 'stop work' notice [which was simply ignored by the Home Office,]) it appears that some of the permanent accommodation blocks have been subject to refurbishment-type works since the RAF vacated the site. This work appears to have been lost in the media noise surrounding Scampton, and thus my question is: How can the RAF vacate the site one day, and very soon after, refurbishment of accommodation blocks takes place? That suggests to me that the service personnel who occupied those buildings were living (and working) in substandard accommodation - surely if it's good enough for service personnel to live in, then it should be good enough for asylum seekers too?

BTW Bob, it's Sir Edward Leigh, not Richard

[Wycombe]

Notwithstanding the rights/wrongs of housing asylum seekers, and the influx of Portacabin type units to Scampton (despite the Council imposing a 'stop work' notice [which was simply ignored by the Home Office,]) it appears that some of the permanent accommodation blocks have been subject to refurbishment-type works since the RAF vacated the site. This work appears to have been lost in the media noise surrounding Scampton, and thus my question is: How can the RAF vacate the site one day, and very soon after, refurbishment of accommodation blocks takes place? That suggests to me that the service personnel who occupied those buildings were living (and working) in substandard accommodation - surely if it's good enough for service personnel to live in, then it should be good enough for asylum seekers too?

BTW Bob, it's Sir Edward Leigh, not Richard
I suspect that much of the accomodation you refer to had been out of use for a good few years. I last went to Scampton 9 years ago and much of it looked semi-derelict then!

[Diff Tail Shim]

Notwithstanding the rights/wrongs of housing asylum seekers, and the influx of Portacabin type units to Scampton (despite the Council imposing a 'stop work' notice [which was simply ignored by the Home Office,]) it appears that some of the permanent accommodation blocks have been subject to refurbishment-type works since the RAF vacated the site. This work appears to have been lost in the media noise surrounding Scampton, and thus my question is: How can the RAF vacate the site one day, and very soon after, refurbishment of accommodation blocks takes place? That suggests to me that the service personnel who occupied those buildings were living (and working) in substandard accommodation - surely if it's good enough for service personnel to live in, then it should be good enough for asylum seekers too?

BTW Bob, it's Sir Edward Leigh, not Richard
The accommodation at Scampton in 1989 was rubbish. When it had multiple units based there! I was on TMT1. Accommodation was rubbish and falling apart. 2 weeks later with RSS, I was in a room in married quarters used as overspill for detached personal to unit...

[Jhieminga]

Just curious, but driving past RAF Scampton this last summer I noticed what appeared to be a couple of 'shrink-wrapped' airframes on the airfield. Does anybody know if any airframes are stored there?

[pug]

Just curious, but driving past RAF Scampton this last summer I noticed what appeared to be a couple of 'shrink-wrapped' airframes on the airfield. Does anybody know if any airframes are stored there?

Hawker Hunter Aviation non-airworthy airframes which I think included Buccaneer, SU22 and perhaps F4. I’m pretty sure they were gone last time I passed a couple of weeks ago but I could be wrong.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Still there as of 10 days ago - and one is definitely a F-4
Edit: Still there Sun 10 Dec 23.....

[Jhieminga]

Hawker Hunter Aviation non-airworthy airframes which I think included Buccaneer, SU22 and perhaps F4. I’m pretty sure they were gone last time I passed a couple of weeks ago but I could be wrong.
Many thanks! It was too brief a glimpse to identify anything other than 'multiple shrink-wrapped military types'. Needed to keep my eyes on the road as well of course.