Emirates Roadshow HONG KONG March.

[MeLuvUlongtime]

The Pilot Information Sessions will be held at SkyCity Marriott Hotel on March 30 and 31.

Emirates also welcomes experienced pilots to join as First Officers, A380 Direct Entry Captains, or via the Accelerated Command Programme.

"The company points out that the participants only have to join one of the sessions and do not have to register beforehand. Prospective pilots can chat with those currently flying with Emirates and learn more about the recruitment process, job opportunities, training programs, career planning and benefit

"We look forward to having more talented pilots from Hong Kong come onboard our airline," Emirates' Area Manager for Hong Kong Nasser Bahlooq said.

The selection process will be separated into two stages, with the first stage of assessment to be conducted remotely, while the second stage will be done in Dubai over two days.

Bahlooq remarked that Emirates offers exciting benefits for pilots and their families, including competitive tax-free salary, 42 days of annual leave, a generous allowance for accommodation and education, full medical benefits, discounted travel benefits for the wider family and friends,"

Hong Kong SkyCity Marriott Hotel

Thursday, 30 March
Morning session: 11:00am
Afternoon session: 2:00pm

Friday, 31 March
Morning session only: 10:00am

JUST in case you feel excited and naughty.. https://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/pilots/

[Gaisha]

I will be attending …. EK rehired all of their sacked pilots in the same rank on the same pay scale. Prospects are good over there.

[SOPS]

I will be attending …. EK rehired all of their sacked pilots in the same rank on the same pay scale. Prospects are good over there.

No, they did not…there are many pilots they did not take back.

[Bekol delay]

Is this the roadshow that's being run by an ex Cx 777 F/O?

[Babyjet_dododo]

Why would anyone want to leave this Oasis for a sandpit? Seriously, why trade in your shoebox apartment for a spacious villa? That’s just more room to clean!

Why give up back to back LH and ULH flights with min days off for one flight and then 3-4 rest days afterwards?

And of course you’re going to miss the basic medical coverage, and schooling!

Nothing says I’m a provider for my family than giving up 95% of one’s salary to pay for schooling, housing and extra medical coverage!

consider before applying, the grass is not always greener on the other side, or is it the sand is not more white on the other side?

[pill]

Direct entry command on the 380? And knock back the chance to fly the 320/321? Tell em they're dreaming.

[RAT Management]

The Pilot Information Sessions will be held at SkyCity Marriott Hotel on March 30 and 31.

Emirates also welcomes experienced pilots to join as First Officers, A380 Direct Entry Captains, or via the Accelerated Command Programme.

"The company points out that the participants only have to join one of the sessions and do not have to register beforehand. Prospective pilots can chat with those currently flying with Emirates and learn more about the recruitment process, job opportunities, training programs, career planning and benefit

"We look forward to having more talented pilots from Hong Kong come onboard our airline," Emirates' Area Manager for Hong Kong Nasser Bahlooq said.

The selection process will be separated into two stages, with the first stage of assessment to be conducted remotely, while the second stage will be done in Dubai over two days.

Bahlooq remarked that Emirates offers exciting benefits for pilots and their families, including competitive tax-free salary, 42 days of annual leave, a generous allowance for accommodation and education, full medical benefits, discounted travel benefits for the wider family and friends,"

Hong Kong SkyCity Marriott Hotel

Thursday, 30 March
Morning session: 11:00am
Afternoon session: 2:00pm

Friday, 31 March
Morning session only: 10:00am

JUST in case you feel excited and naughty.. https://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/pilots/

Anybody been to the road show?

Any tips ? Or info?

[Oasis]

But.. do they serve Illy coffee?
Does anyone have any idea what the typical rosters are? any decent time off in a row?

[AQIS Boigu]

Forget commuting unless you fancy living somewhere else in the ME

Joining EK means making Dubai your “home”

It could work for some but not for everyone

[Gaisha]

With 2 kids in HK and the lack of educational support on COS18, it makes perfect sense for me to make the move to EK. There are many good and affordable schools to choose from in Dubai without having to top up too much from my wages. The 4 bedroom villas with all bills paid for by the company beats living in the crammed conditions we have here in HKG. The summers will be unpleasant but all in all, it’s not a high price to pay for comfort and security.

[magenta magnet]

With 2 kids in HK and the lack of educational support on COS18, it makes perfect sense for me to make the move to EK. There are many good and affordable schools to choose from in Dubai without having to top up too much from my wages. The 4 bedroom villas with all bills paid for by the company beats living in the crammed conditions we have here in HKG. The summers will be unpleasant but all in all, it’s not a high price to pay for comfort and security.

Out of interest, does the wife work? And what schools are your kids going to or wanting to go to..

I could honestly think of nothing worse than EK and living in Dubai...

[Pickuptruck]

Forget commuting unless you fancy living somewhere else in the ME

Joining EK means making Dubai your “home”

It could work for some but not for everyone
Plenty in Dubai are commuting to Europe. Just saying. Maybe not to North America but Europe is pretty straightforward.

[Oasis]

Does emirates have a proffering system?
Joker g equivalent?
Can you swap?
Is it possible to get a block of days in a row?
How many in a row?

[Xwindldg]

Out of interest, does the wife work? And what schools are your kids going to or wanting to go to..

I could honestly think of nothing worse than EK and living in Dubai...

It’s catch 22 though. Yes the wife can work full time, but then that means hiring a full time helper who has to live in your tiny house and basically raise your kids now. Unless you’re a local and have family here.

If you’re going to be an expat living away from your home country and extended family, EK is obviously a much better option than CX now. Only an absolute management cool aid drinker says otherwise.

The ONLY thing CX has going for it now is shiny new jets.

[Asianexpress]

Does emirates have a proffering system?
Joker g equivalent?
Can you swap?
Is it possible to get a block of days in a row?
How many in a row?
Lol, have you read COS 18. You will have none of the above until they can crew the fleet, thinking 2035.

[Babyjet_dododo]

SCMP reported about 100 pilots attended the first session most from CX but some from SEA carriers. Can CX really afford to lose more pilots?

Management doesn’t care, the salary is “competitive for the aviation industry in Hong Kong”. They refuse to acknowledge pilots can now easily move to other countries with better packages

[RAT Management]

Rosters from mates and snap shots I've seen are reasonable. 777 usually 3-4 days off after individual trips of 2-3 day patterns. No integrated patterns. 777 freight rosters are up to 10 day patterns but longer blocks off of around 7-8 days. The freighter trips are not mandatory you can opt in or out of em. 380 is generally 4 day patterns with 5-7 days off. All long haul 2 CAPT 2FO. No SO's

Swap system is available as well as live leave system for last minute annual leave requests and changes. 6 weeks leave all ranks! GaiamTV to take 30 days each year.

All housing paid including utilities. 4 bed Villa with club house and communal pool tennis courts etc. No option at the moment to opt out of company accom but if it does open up ( supply demand) $4200 US per month for FO and 5500US for Captain. But the catch is once outside company accom the utilities are your own expense.

For DEC it's a good deal assuming you have a place in HK you can pocket the rent from that and live housing cost free in Dubai. Pay is virtually the same when you take into account tax free.

Basically same as living in Hong Kong but schooling package is far superior. Only secondary requires Top up but in HK terms is like 10000 HKD as total top up for the year for one of the top schools in DXB.

The cars supplied to and from work are a bonus.

Medical benefits are superior or old CX style but also covers family across the world. Private rooms etc etc.

CX pos18 package is modelled on the Emirates one but with a downward adjustment to $$$ and benefits, assuming people would rather be in HK over The desert. But I don't think the assumption and the evidence of the continued attack on threshold hours shows the same financial stability as Emirates.

If you have a long career ahead of you as FO and you have moderate hours Emirates would be better financially. Quick command and accelerated command contracts on offer. The Provident fund is better than the current CX one so compounded over a long career will always be far superior.

For Direct Captains on 380 it's basically good rosters and if more than 5 years of service it would be financially better off assuming you have your place in Hong Kong generating extra $$$. Also if you can make 10+ years you get staff travel for your retirement!

Living in Dubai same same but different to Hong Kong. Some things better, some things worse. But if you can make it work in your favour it could be the best move you've made. But obviously not for everyone.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Rosters from mates and snap shots I've seen are reasonable. 777 usually 3-4 days off after individual trips of 2-3 day patterns. No integrated patterns. 777 freight rosters are up to 10 day patterns but longer blocks off of around 7-8 days. The freighter trips are not mandatory you can opt in or out of em. 380 is generally 4 day patterns with 5-7 days off. All long haul 2 CAPT 2FO. No SO's

Swap system is available as well as live leave system for last minute annual leave requests and changes. 6 weeks leave all ranks! GaiamTV to take 30 days each year.

All housing paid including utilities. 4 bed Villa with club house and communal pool tennis courts etc. No option at the moment to opt out of company accom but if it does open up ( supply demand) $4200 US per month for FO and 5500US for Captain. But the catch is once outside company accom the utilities are your own expense.

For DEC it's a good deal assuming you have a place in HK you can pocket the rent from that and live housing cost free in Dubai. Pay is virtually the same when you take into account tax free.

Basically same as living in Hong Kong but schooling package is far superior. Only secondary requires Top up but in HK terms is like 10000 HKD as total top up for the year for one of the top schools in DXB.

The cars supplied to and from work are a bonus.

Medical benefits are superior or old CX style but also covers family across the world. Private rooms etc etc.

CX pos18 package is modelled on the Emirates one but with a downward adjustment to $$$ and benefits, assuming people would rather be in HK over The desert. But I don't think the assumption and the evidence of the continued attack on threshold hours shows the same financial stability as Emirates.

If you have a long career ahead of you as FO and you have moderate hours Emirates would be better financially. Quick command and accelerated command contracts on offer. The Provident fund is better than the current CX one so compounded over a long career will always be far superior.

For Direct Captains on 380 it's basically good rosters and if more than 5 years of service it would be financially better off assuming you have your place in Hong Kong generating extra $$$. Also if you can make 10+ years you get staff travel for your retirement!

Living in Dubai same same but different to Hong Kong. Some things better, some things worse. But if you can make it work in your favour it could be the best move you've made. But obviously not for everyone.

Are you saying I have to give up W patterns with max 3 days off and/or use my annual leave as recovery?

Give up the slum schools of HK for top class education in Dubai?

Leave my amazing 500sq ft apartment for a villa with a back yard?

You can’t be serious about having to give up the comfort of a bus/train/bus to/from work for a chauffeur driven car.

“No thanks - I will not give that up to live in the sandpit when I can live HK in pure ignorant bliss” - Every Quintessential white guy in CX

[RAT Management]

Are you saying I have to give up W patterns with max 3 days off and/or use my annual leave as recovery?

Give up the slum schools of HK for top class education in Dubai?

Leave my amazing 500sq ft apartment for a villa with a back yard?

You can’t be serious about having to give up the comfort of a bus/train/bus to/from work for a chauffeur driven car.

“No thanks - I will not give that up to live in the sandpit when I can live HK in pure ignorant bliss” - Every Quintessential white guy in CX

Ha ha. Classic.

I forgot to mention you get a 20 foot container to relocate to DXB so you can bring your favourite things from your apartment.

Plus, because the 4 bedroom villa will have too much space. They give you $6500USD to buy furniture as a one off welcome to DXB allowance.

Plus if your kids are at boarding school you get 2x confirmed return tickets for them to school/DXB each year per kid to make it hassle free for them to get flights over the school holidays!

Schooling is covered until your kids are 19 and that includes University overseas.

You get 6 annual leave confirmed bookable tickets each year as well for employee and family.

You get 10 tickets a year for "friends" outside of your normal travel nominees.

Plus 50% of your salary is protected against FX exchange rate extremes, but your salary will only go up but never down.

Those are some of the little things, but for some the little things are important..... Like command dinners, gold pins for 10,15.20 years. First class lounge pass when you get your command.... All those things have been wiped in HK but atleast in DXB someone still thinks it's important.

[Rie]

Ha ha. Classic.

I forgot to mention you get a 20 foot container to relocate to DXB so you can bring your favourite things from your apartment.


Someone mentioned Etihad gives a 40ft... Makes It just that much more enticing.

[Jackschitt]

Anyone know how much they charge for staff travel? is it a profit driver like it is in cx?

[mngmt mole]

I commuted with CX for many years. Kept an Xcel file on all my expenses. I spent over $80000 usd on staff travel so I could stay connected to my family. Only CX would choose to make a profit off their own employees.

[Fac6]

Have some friends in EK and they say staff travel is amazing. One friend has retired and he gets a huge amount of free tickets a year all upgradeable to first. My jaw dropped when he told me the benefits. Maybe someone who has joined EK could post on here with what you now get?

[Gnadenburg]

Yes I’ll be fascinated to hear too. Browbeaten HK expats searching for honour amongst thieves!

EK & CX? Really? One abusive relationship to another. One political dictatorship to another. One place of scant labour protections to another….

But sincerely Good Luck.

[SIDS N STARS]

I believe QR pays education up to the age of 21. I met someone from QR Executive a few yers ago, he was telling me that he was able to live in Canada and QR were paying for his kids to attend university there.

[SOPS]

Rosters from mates and snap shots I've seen are reasonable. 777 usually 3-4 days off after individual trips of 2-3 day patterns. No integrated patterns. 777 freight rosters are up to 10 day patterns but longer blocks off of around 7-8 days. The freighter trips are not mandatory you can opt in or out of em. 380 is generally 4 day patterns with 5-7 days off. All long haul 2 CAPT 2FO. No SO's

Swap system is available as well as live leave system for last minute annual leave requests and changes. 6 weeks leave all ranks! GaiamTV to take 30 days each year.

All housing paid including utilities. 4 bed Villa with club house and communal pool tennis courts etc. No option at the moment to opt out of company accom but if it does open up ( supply demand) $4200 US per month for FO and 5500US for Captain. But the catch is once outside company accom the utilities are your own expense.

For DEC it's a good deal assuming you have a place in HK you can pocket the rent from that and live housing cost free in Dubai. Pay is virtually the same when you take into account tax free.

Basically same as living in Hong Kong but schooling package is far superior. Only secondary requires Top up but in HK terms is like 10000 HKD as total top up for the year for one of the top schools in DXB.

The cars supplied to and from work are a bonus.

Medical benefits are superior or old CX style but also covers family across the world. Private rooms etc etc.

CX pos18 package is modelled on the Emirates one but with a downward adjustment to $$$ and benefits, assuming people would rather be in HK over The desert. But I don't think the assumption and the evidence of the continued attack on threshold hours shows the same financial stability as Emirates.

If you have a long career ahead of you as FO and you have moderate hours Emirates would be better financially. Quick command and accelerated command contracts on offer. The Provident fund is better than the current CX one so compounded over a long career will always be far superior.

For Direct Captains on 380 it's basically good rosters and if more than 5 years of service it would be financially better off assuming you have your place in Hong Kong generating extra $$$. Also if you can make 10+ years you get staff travel for your retirement!

Living in Dubai same same but different to Hong Kong. Some things better, some things worse. But if you can make it work in your favour it could be the best move you've made. But obviously not for everyone.

You can swap in and out of freighter trips? Really? I would love to know how that works.

[Macarto]

Does anyone know if EK accommodation allowance is still available?

[RAT Management]

Does anyone know if EK accommodation allowance is still available?
For any new joiners now the scheme is not available. But it may become available v in the future when Emirates supplied villas become full.
It's purely supply and demand.

[request]

I have seen that Emirates has updated the Pay and Benefits section on their website and now they no longer offer the 15,500 AED accommodation allowance. Can someone confirm it?

[Sam Ting Wong]

They have empty villas they need to fill up first..

Speaking of EK. Some uncanny similarities..

The basic for CN is coincidentally same as basic after tax in CX. The mentioned cash allowance is (was) roughly same as in CX as well. Cost of living roughly same as well..

Now it's down to children ( 100% cover in EK, 50 % in CX), productivity pay ( 0 % in EK, ?? in CX), pace of promotion, work enthusiasm ( 80-90 hrs EK/ 70% ish in CX), commuting requirements and housing/ environment preferences ( hot and sandy in EK, small and crowded in CX).

[RAT Management]

They have empty villas they need to fill up first..

Speaking of EK. Some uncanny similarities..

The basic for CN is coincidentally same as basic after tax in CX. The mentioned cash allowance is (was) roughly same as in CX as well. Cost of living roughly same as well..

Now it's down to children ( 100% cover in EK, 50 % in CX), productivity pay ( 0 % in EK, ?? in CX), pace of promotion, work enthusiasm ( 80-90 hrs EK/ 70% ish in CX), commuting requirements and housing/ environment preferences ( hot and sandy in EK, small and crowded in CX).

Medical and dental coverage is better

Staff travel is better

Provident fund is better.

But your right coincidentally the CX package is the same... I guess we now know the bench marking they used.

It's also funny how our salaries have gone down by a quarter to a half, while the directors bonuses have almost doubled. Magic!

[Sam Ting Wong]

I pay 500 for additional medical cover per month, so not really significant I would argue. Staff travel in EK a bit better, but less commuting opportunities overall. EK provident is 12%, salary in CX probably a tad higher which equalises our 10%.

Overall it looks like they are playing us. The two packages come in different shades of brown...

[Babyjet_dododo]

They have empty villas they need to fill up first..

Speaking of EK. Some uncanny similarities..

The basic for CN is coincidentally same as basic after tax in CX. The mentioned cash allowance is (was) roughly same as in CX as well. Cost of living roughly same as well..

Now it's down to children ( 100% cover in EK, 50 % in CX), productivity pay ( 0 % in EK, ?? in CX), pace of promotion, work enthusiasm ( 80-90 hrs EK/ 70% ish in CX), commuting requirements and housing/ environment preferences ( hot and sandy in EK, small and crowded in CX).

Lets look at the similarities and some contrasts shall we?

I know you’re a company man, or staying in CX somehow makes you feel better about your life choices.

Let’s compare FO1 to the emirates Basic with no productivity pay. All in USD and after tax assuming 15% in HK for basic salary and all allowances

its unfair to compare commander scales as there is no DEC for CX

Basic Salary
CX - $5473
EK - $ 7079

Housing -
CX - (Assuming pilot allowance is used for housing) $2165
EK - $0

In saying that, finding a place in HK for a family of 4 to live comfortably will cost a lot more that $2165 - average price in TC for an 85sqm 3 bedroom apartment is about $3000.

Education
CX - Upto $10828 per child (provided receipts are provided)
EK - $10211
Education is a lot more expensive in HK, with a mid tier school costing about $17835, whereas in the UAE it’s about $12800.

Medical
CX - Low limit medical coverage worldwide for pilot only - HK only coverage for family
EK - Excellent medical coverage - Worldwide for family

Leave -
CX - Five Weeks
EK - Six weeks

Commuting -

CX - possible but can be difficult at times depending on the season.
EK - Maybe to/from Europe



The Basic breakdown of income. Now tell me which do you think is a more superior package?

[magenta magnet]

EK is Latin for ughhh... hot, dusty, hot again, humid beyond measures, you can't even walk outside or ride a bike / hike / lie on a beach before your skin falls off. Winter is nice there, but that's about it for 4 seconds.

Sure you get paid a little more, housing and medical are a little better, but it is not some huge 50% overall increase in pay / savings each month. You may hate HK and fair enough a busy city isn't for everyone, but there are places out there that are quite and a lot cheaper to rent. There is way more to do, way more to enjoy on your days off. Dubai, well unless you love shopping with your Gucci bags inside malls then by all means.

Make one mistake in EK or say one thing that rocks the boat, oh boy.

Think wisely before you jump ship, starting at the bottom again isn't great.

[Sam Ting Wong]

The Basic breakdown of income. Now tell me which do you think is a more superior package?


Without the productivity variable the comparison makes no sense to me.

PS I am my own man

[Babyjet_dododo]

EK is Latin for ughhh... hot, dusty, hot again, humid beyond measures, you can't even walk outside or ride a bike / hike / lie on a beach before your skin falls off. Winter is nice there, but that's about it for 4 seconds.

Sure you get paid a little more, housing and medical are a little better, but it is not some huge 50% overall increase in pay / savings each month. You may hate HK and fair enough a busy city isn't for everyone, but there are places out there that are quite and a lot cheaper to rent. There is way more to do, way more to enjoy on your days off. Dubai, well unless you love shopping with your Gucci bags inside malls then by all means.

Make one mistake in EK or say one thing that rocks the boat, oh boy.

Think wisely before you jump ship, starting at the bottom again isn't great.

Find me a 3 bedroom place that is cheaper to rent that is comparable to TC that is adequately liveable for less that $3000 USD a month….. I’ll wait.

Things to do? Disneyland? Ocean Park? Shopping malls? Eat second rate overpriced food? That’s after spending a draining 2 hour commute on 2 trains and a bus to get to one’s destination, no one is up for doing anything. Also there is a lot more to do in Dubai.

[main_dog]

To be fair one thing EK has going for it is financial certainty. Housing is taken care of, so you don’t need to use a big chunk of your pay to supplement living in a nicer area than TC, or a slightly bigger flat because you were so imprudent as to have children. In EK your monthly income is a known quantity, your housing, schooling and even some bills are taken care of, so your monthly income is almost fully disposable income. Financial planning and regular saving are possible.

With our lot, now you have no idea how much you will make: it’s variable and completely under their control. You might have some good months, followed by many more where you’re making way less. All it takes is being on an overmanned fleet/rank, going on leave, getting sick, or just a roster change or an AOG lowering your hours, and suddenly you lose huge chunks of what you though might be your income that month. All the while eye-watering rent and schooling still need to be paid regardless of your misfortune. Very disheartening, and difficult to plan for your financial future.

[Oasis]

I seem to remember that in EK you don't get paid for or hours aren't counted for time in the bunk. How does this affect things?
Do you end up working more for the same pay or end up making less for the same flying?
Typical amount of days off a month on 380/777? Is this all over the place or can you group it together?
Mentioned earlier is the limited options for commuting, why is that?

[Babyjet_dododo]

I seem to remember that in EK you don't get paid for or hours aren't counted for time in the bunk. How does this affect things?
Do you end up working more for the same pay or end up making less for the same flying?
Typical amount of days off a month on 380/777? Is this all over the place or can you group it together?
Mentioned earlier is the limited options for commuting, why is that?

Hours in the bunk don’t count towards the FTL’s but you still get paid the per diem.
Rosters are usually one flight followed by 2-6 days off depending on fleet (less days off on 777, Airbus is about 4-6 days off). This is the limitation to commuting.

They target 85 hours per month, depending on the months but from friends on the Airbus, they’re running around 70hrs per month.

[SOPS]

I would love to see an actual roster showing 6 days off in a row. EK drive to give you 8 days a month off..no more. Remember you have to be in Dubai 12 hours before your duty, and if it’s a ULR, you have to be in Dubai 3 days before your duty. Forget commuting.

[OpTest]

EK package does look a tiny bit better, but let's not kid ourselves as you live in a sandpit. I mean each to their own as some will love Dubai and its intense heat, while others will like the climate and culture in HK more and it is this that will crucially push people to decide where to go / stay...

[bonzaboy]

EK package does look a tiny bit better, but let's not kid ourselves as you live in a sandpit. I mean each to their own as some will love Dubai and its intense heat, while others will like the climate and culture in HK more and it is this that will crucially push people to decide where to go / stay...
Who on earth can like the polluted and humid HK climate?

[main_dog]

Who on earth can like the polluted and humid HK climate?

No more polluted than Dubai, and a far more interesting city even now. Climate is lovely in Dubai 5/6 months a year, the rest is a burning furnace. HK climate also lovely 5/6 months a year, the rest humid and tropical. Horses for courses, but for me HK still comes out miles ahead (though admittedly it has lost a lot of its charm in the last few years).

The CX package was immensely superior, especially with the housing. It no longer is with the terms and conditions we were forced to accept, and is now arguably inferior in many respects (particularly with kids).

My prediction is CX will become a revolving door airline like EK itself. Pick your poison.

[roll_over]

I put my apps with EK and CX on hold and decided to stay in the UK, if you max out your pension you can save a lot on tax but have a lot less disposable income. With EK not offering the housing allowance currently it reduces the package by a lot.

I don’t think it is at all possible to commute at EK, best you’ll get is a few days a month at home if home is in Europe with days off after a flight.

[main_dog]

Did Emirates actually just award all their pilots with 24 weeks profit share?? :ooh:

[boocs]

I heard the same!

[BuzzBox]

Did Emirates actually just award all their pilots with 24 weeks profit share?? :ooh:

No idea, but they've just reported their most profitable year EVER:
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/emirates-group-announces-2022-23-results/#:~:text=With%20the%20removal%20of%20pandemic,of%209.9%25%2C %20reflecting%20the%20best

[veryoldchinahand]

Did they ever make a REAL profit -I suspect not.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Did they ever make a REAL profit -I suspect not.
I wouldn’t give it a second thought as 24 weeks of profit share was deposited into my current account.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Did they ever make a REAL profit -I suspect not.

Why would they lie?

[ToCatLady]

For FO’s it’s circa £35k and CN £50-55k bonus tax free.

lots of strings attached to it to qualify for it (time in company/covid/sickness ect) and doubtful any of the recent CX - EK joiners will pocket much as they haven’t been there long enough.

still…..a lot of cash.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

For FO’s it’s circa £35k and CN £50-55k bonus tax free.

lots of strings attached to it to qualify for it (time in company/covid/sickness ect) and doubtful any of the recent CX - EK joiners will pocket much as they haven’t been there long enough.

still…..a lot of cash.

plenty of former CX guys there for 6 months+, particularly on the Boeing, which started external hiring sooner.

[ToCatLady]

plenty of former CX guys there for 6 months+, particularly on the Boeing, which started external hiring sooner.


Yes and I believe you’ll need at least 12 months to obtain this bonus.

[A6EAA]

It all came on the back of thousands of employees fired and selective rehiring, plus other hundreds of A380 pilots made to take mandatory unpaid leave. All this after some 30 plus years making profit. They wont give anything in some time. Some years before covid even when they made profit they didn't give anything. Not even the mandatory salary rise that's in the contract was made, not because they lost money no, because they didn't make enough. It's only to make headlines.

[jetjockey696]

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/jobs/dubai-emirates-employees-to-get-24-week-salary-bonus-as-company-records-highest-ever-profit-say-so

[5.8UP]

Yes and I believe you’ll need at least 12 months to obtain this bonus.

Airbus guys and girls from Cx started as early as August last year at EK, Boeing as early as July. Bonus cut off is 6 months, anyone there longer than that receives it pro rata.

[flyer13]

Hi everyone! Is the 150hrs in the last 12months a must requirement these days?

[Rie]

Hi everyone! Is the 150hrs in the last 12months a must requirement these days?
yes, they have no shortage of needy individuals

[Trevor the lover]

Been here before. My ****hole is better than your ****hole.

[Matra 4EB]

I've spent several years not at EK but at the other airline, down the highway. Left long before COVID struck and on my own account. All I can say is, I wouldn't think for a second about going back.

There are no taxes? I remember paying 5% "communality fees", bills for aircon/elec./water/internet that were heavy and going up all the time, maintenance fees (whether I needed them or not; generally I rather fixed stuff by myself than having to rely on the maintenance team), and so on. Yeah, they don't call it taxes, of course, just mandatory fees.

Speaking about fees. Schooling fees are high and going up year by year, and you still pay extra for each activity for your child (we're talking of DHS 2.500 per semester just for swimming or for football in the afternoon). That wasn't a high-end school, but one which is at least not full of extremists who ask my kids to "convert" in the changing room. Still very bad with bullying, rude behavior, and an arrogant principal. I understand this might be normal for some cultures - and on a large scale it's how the whole UAE works, but we didn't particularly enjoy that. The standard of the school is "superior" and "outstanding" on their brochures, but you will need to really study and practice hard at home with your kids, if you want them to be able to keep up with the level of education required in your home country. Just because the school has an amphitheatre, computer rooms equipped with imacs, marble floors and an indoors swimming pool, doesn't mean your kid will learn French, chemistry and algebra - even though the school fees always include a report with straight A's to keep you happy!

Competitive salary - Okay, if I compare my net income in DXB and elsewhere, it's an impressive number. But it's just being taken back out of your pocket the same way, e.g. by having your rent increased by 15%. Prices of food in Carrefour are about double of what I pay at home. If you supply for a family of four, you're gonna walk out with zero at the end of the month. So you often have vouchers for a free glass of wine in a restaurant or "second kid eats free" at the brunch in the polo club, and your crew-id will entitle you for a 8% discount at the Bentley dealer? Amazing! The whole point of the UAE is to attract expats with an interesting salary, and making sure you spend it all here. Once they don't need you anymore, or you make just one wrong move, you're gonna see how much you are really worth.

Lifestyle is probably just as awesome in the UAE as it is in HK. You have shopping malls, shopping malls... oh, and did I mention shopping malls? That's where you sit in Starbucks, and engage in interesting conversations about weekend-getaways in the Atlantis, wellness trips to the Maldives, wonderful sundowners at the Rotana, and other must-dos, with all the other new-rich, bored people you live and work with. Or you go for a BBQ, have a few drinks, and share your expertise about the airline. Or do something else, swipe your credit card on the way out, and don't worry, the bank will offer you 36 easy installments at the end of the month.

[RAT Management]

I've spent several years not at EK but at the other airline, down the highway. Left long before COVID struck and on my own account. All I can say is, I wouldn't think for a second about going back.

There are no taxes? I remember paying 5% "communality fees", bills for aircon/elec./water/internet that were heavy and going up all the time, maintenance fees (whether I needed them or not; generally I rather fixed stuff by myself than having to rely on the maintenance team), and so on. Yeah, they don't call it taxes, of course, just mandatory fees.

Speaking about fees. Schooling fees are high and going up year by year, and you still pay extra for each activity for your child (we're talking of DHS 2.500 per semester just for swimming or for football in the afternoon). That wasn't a high-end school, but one which is at least not full of extremists who ask my kids to "convert" in the changing room. Still very bad with bullying, rude behavior, and an arrogant principal. I understand this might be normal for some cultures - and on a large scale it's how the whole UAE works, but we didn't particularly enjoy that. The standard of the school is "superior" and "outstanding" on their brochures, but you will need to really study and practice hard at home with your kids, if you want them to be able to keep up with the level of education required in your home country. Just because the school has an amphitheatre, computer rooms equipped with imacs, marble floors and an indoors swimming pool, doesn't mean your kid will learn French, chemistry and algebra - even though the school fees always include a report with straight A's to keep you happy!

Competitive salary - Okay, if I compare my net income in DXB and elsewhere, it's an impressive number. But it's just being taken back out of your pocket the same way, e.g. by having your rent increased by 15%. Prices of food in Carrefour are about double of what I pay at home. If you supply for a family of four, you're gonna walk out with zero at the end of the month. So you often have vouchers for a free glass of wine in a restaurant or "second kid eats free" at the brunch in the polo club, and your crew-id will entitle you for a 8% discount at the Bentley dealer? Amazing! The whole point of the UAE is to attract expats with an interesting salary, and making sure you spend it all here. Once they don't need you anymore, or you make just one wrong move, you're gonna see how much you are really worth.

Lifestyle is probably just as awesome in the UAE as it is in HK. You have shopping malls, shopping malls... oh, and did I mention shopping malls? That's where you sit in Starbucks, and engage in interesting conversations about weekend-getaways in the Atlantis, wellness trips to the Maldives, wonderful sundowners at the Rotana, and other must-dos, with all the other new-rich, bored people you live and work with. Or you go for a BBQ, have a few drinks, and share your expertise about the airline. Or do something else, swipe your credit card on the way out, and don't worry, the bank will offer you 36 easy installments at the end of the month.
Nice summary... Basically same dog different leg!

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Nice summary... Basically same dog different leg!
As one of the many who have worked for both, there is no comparison between working for CX and living the imploding dump that is HK, and working for EK living in Dubai.

[corporal klinger]

Guess we are all different. I feel sorry for anyone who has to live and work in Dubai.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

You needn’t bother. My lifestyle and financial position here is beyond what I could’ve dreamed of in HK.

Comparing the two, it’s plainly obvious that one is one the ascendency and one is in a steep descent.

[corporal klinger]

Walk me through a day off from May to Oct (granted those days are rare ;-)

[Babyjet_dododo]

Walk me through a day off from May to Oct (granted those days are rare ;-)

Yes, nothing beats waiting for public transport while sweating from the humidity, travelling 1.5 hours from your residence only to get to Disneyland with the young ones to find out everyone needs to change clothes, and it’s starting to pour down with rain. And there is no shelter available to ride out the passing weather.

I love living in HK! The narrow footpaths, the tiny apartments, no seating in shopping centres, The smells coming from the sewerage as you pass a grate, the fact kids are not allowed to ride scooters in parks, or generally be allowed to be kids tells you all you need to know about HK

[corporal klinger]

Yes, nothing beats waiting for public transport while sweating from the humidity, travelling 1.5 hours from your residence only to get to Disneyland with the young ones to find out everyone needs to change clothes, and it’s starting to pour down with rain. And there is no shelter available to ride out the passing weather.

I love living in HK! The narrow footpaths, the tiny apartments, no seating in shopping centres, The smells coming from the sewerage as you pass a grate, the fact kids are not allowed to ride scooters in parks, or generally be allowed to be kids tells you all you need to know about HK

Why on earth would I want to sit in a shopping centre? Is that a thing in Dubai?

[Babyjet_dododo]

Why on earth would I want to sit in a shopping centre? Is that a thing in Dubai?

it’s common, and a sign of courtesy to have seats in shopping centres, is it not common in your home country? Or do you like following your partner from store to store like a little lost puppy?

[corporal klinger]

I really don't spend my time sitting in shopping centres. I also don't go to Disneyland. Is that considered weird behaviour in Dubai?

[Oasis]

Yes, nothing beats waiting for public transport while sweating from the humidity, travelling 1.5 hours from your residence only to get to Disneyland with the young ones to find out everyone needs to change clothes, and it’s starting to pour down with rain. And there is no shelter available to ride out the passing weather.

I love living in HK! The narrow footpaths, the tiny apartments, no seating in shopping centres, The smells coming from the sewerage as you pass a grate, the fact kids are not allowed to ride scooters in parks, or generally be allowed to be kids tells you all you need to know about HK

you take the Mtr to Disney, aircon.

you take an umbrella if it rains, and it could, unlike in Dubai, where nothing grows.

I agree about the small apartments in Hong Kong, valid point.
the smells are… exotic

natrow alleyways? It’s called character.. not all planned out by an overpaid architect, organic.

[corporal klinger]

Instead of telling us how bad equipped HK shopping malls are, why not give some useful information, some genuine background on Dubai and EK? Days off, how many consecutive, ID flights on days off, when you have to be back, total hours etc. And again, what do you do on a day off during half of the year when you basically can't go outside?

PS my flat is not small, my son drives his scooter to school and when my kids want to go to Disney I send them with my helper. They love it, I hate it, perfect. Public transport in HK is excellent. And I think I can make a comparison, I was gridlocked on Sheik Zahed in a taxi many times and I also have had the pleasure to use the MTR in Dubai, so maybe be a bit careful starting a discussion about smell.Plus the stations are not well connected, you still walk for miles, often in the heat.

[Silent Treatment]

This lad is definitely new to EX and Dubai. I’d say start date 6-12 months ago. Still in the honeymoon phase, when the sex is still good. Although…he seems to be spending lots of time sitting around shopping malls. Happy wife, happy life, perhaps?
Call us back in 5 years time and let us know how amazing it still is.

[Zi Peng]

You can compare EK and CX, I know it is part of the package but you can’t really compare the two city if anything it is personal. I would take HK any day for example. Having said that the impression is that EK is the same **** but better paid so fair enough to the boys and girls who joined from cx.

[corporal klinger]

Better paid? EK would be a paycut for me ( CN 3). Plus a fair comparison needs to include block hours and days off..
Cos 18 sucks, but at least for me the answer is going home rather than to a different plantation.

[Zi Peng]

Better paid? EK would be a paycut for me ( CN 3). Plus a fair comparison needs to include block hours and days off..
Cos 18 sucks, but at least for me the answer is going home rather than to a different plantation.

I am sure it is true, everybody has his own circumstances. Imagine being a FO with 3 young kids, different story.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Totally agree. It's always down to the individual circumstances.

[main_dog]

Precisely. Horses for courses.

Neither is or ever will be home for an expat, so it depends on individual circumstances. T&Cs used to be immeasurably better in HK (B scale with housing and schooling), now that they’ve taken a blowtorch to those, probably a better package in EK, although you will work harder.

Do your due diligence, work out what’s best for you and your family (possibly neither place) and… “live and let live”.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

I average 70-75 hours a month. Mostly Europe trips which are 7ish hours on average, 24 hours off and back. If it’s a morning start then it’s a 2 day trip of daytime flights, otherwise day out, night return which touches on 3 days. Easy stuff. One long haul a month crediting 28-32 hours. 42 days leave.

Working harder is the reputation, but not my experience. Far from it. Perhaps compared to a legacy home carrier, but not compared to CX. We must recognise that expat jobs are more productive. I am far better rested and less fatigued than I was at CX. Of course it is tiring to a degree, you’d be naive to expect otherwise.

Days off is 3-6 between trips. Only ID restriction is 2 local nights before a long haul if unacclimatised. ID travel is a different level in terms of the system and experience, and much much easier to get on. Live leave has allowed me to drop trips frequently.

I make slightly less than what I made as a COS08 SFO, very slightly more after HK tax. I have much more left at the end of the month. 12.5% pfund. Health insurance on a different planet to the CX ‘offering’. As is schooling.

As for Dubai, personal opinion but there is literally nothing I miss about HK other than friends, although all but a couple have left. If you think there’s nothing to do then that says more about you. The summer bears the same outcome as the dreadful, humid and thundery one. You stay under covers, which is a lot easier and more pleasant in Dubai. Restaurants, bars, services and recreational facilities are leaps ahead. Facilities are generally new and shiny and nice. The standard of consumer offering is significantly higher in terms of grocery shopping, deliveries, dining out. No risk of being sold rat in a package saying pork. People don’t spit everywhere and slash on the pavement. I’m not hated by the general populace. I don’t have to use public transport, which is certainly very good in HK. I get chauffeured to and from work and I have a car.

I and many others have purchased property. Nice apartments or houses for which the company provide a fair allowance for. Whether you want a big villa for your family or an apartment in a prime area, you have many options. This is absolute pipe dream stuff in HK. It’s ARAPA-esque paying down properties in half the mortgage term if you’re wise about it. Or just allowing you and your family to live somewhere you’re happy to call home.

Work environment is far better. None of the toxicity of CX. Great rapport with the CC, and it all makes for a far more pleasant flight deck environment.

As I said, there’s no comparison. Perfect? No. Far better? Yes.

[corporal klinger]

Hope it works out well for you.
Best of luck.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Thanks. Same to you.

[Zi Peng]

I average 70-75 hours a month. Mostly Europe trips which are 7ish hours on average, 24 hours off and back. If it’s a morning start then it’s a 2 day trip of daytime flights, otherwise day out, night return which touches on 3 days. Easy stuff. One long haul a month crediting 28-32 hours. 42 days leave.

Working harder is the reputation, but not my experience. Far from it. Perhaps compared to a legacy home carrier, but not compared to CX. We must recognise that expat jobs are more productive. I am far better rested and less fatigued than I was at CX. Of course it is tiring to a degree, you’d be naive to expect otherwise.

Days off is 3-6 between trips. Only ID restriction is 2 local nights before a long haul if unacclimatised. ID travel is a different level in terms of the system and experience, and much much easier to get on. Live leave has allowed me to drop trips frequently.

I make slightly less than what I made as a COS08 SFO, very slightly more after HK tax. I have much more left at the end of the month. 12.5% pfund. Health insurance on a different planet to the CX ‘offering’. As is schooling.

As for Dubai, personal opinion but there is literally nothing I miss about HK other than friends, although all but a couple have left. If you think there’s nothing to do then that says more about you. The summer bears the same outcome as the dreadful, humid and thundery one. You stay under covers, which is a lot easier and more pleasant in Dubai. Restaurants, bars, services and recreational facilities are leaps ahead. Facilities are generally new and shiny and nice. The standard of consumer offering is significantly higher in terms of grocery shopping, deliveries, dining out. No risk of being sold rat in a package saying pork. People don’t spit everywhere and slash on the pavement. I’m not hated by the general populace. I don’t have to use public transport, which is certainly very good in HK. I get chauffeured to and from work and I have a car.

I and many others have purchased property. Nice apartments or houses for which the company provide a fair allowance for. Whether you want a big villa for your family or an apartment in a prime area, you have many options. This is absolute pipe dream stuff in HK. It’s ARAPA-esque paying down properties in half the mortgage term if you’re wise about it. Or just allowing you and your family to live somewhere you’re happy to call home.

Work environment is far better. None of the toxicity of CX. Great rapport with the CC, and it all makes for a far more pleasant flight deck environment.

As I said, there’s no comparison. Perfect? No. Far better? Yes.

Don’t know which fleet you were on but I never had any problem on the flight deck, quite pleasant actually. Loved to flight with the based guys which was a loss but atmosphere is still decent, even the ex 777 are nice ! They own the place ! Pilots are not the problem.
Few weeks ago’ a EK friend (not former CX, EK is his first civvy job) was in town and he loved it, he will start bidding for HK. Also told me a few not very nice stories about EK. So it is all about perspective and options.
By the way I applied myself to EK in anger but I am too old for them !

[SOPS]

I average 70-75 hours a month. Mostly Europe trips which are 7ish hours on average, 24 hours off and back. If it’s a morning start then it’s a 2 day trip of daytime flights, otherwise day out, night return which touches on 3 days. Easy stuff. One long haul a month crediting 28-32 hours. 42 days leave.

Working harder is the reputation, but not my experience. Far from it. Perhaps compared to a legacy home carrier, but not compared to CX. We must recognise that expat jobs are more productive. I am far better rested and less fatigued than I was at CX. Of course it is tiring to a degree, you’d be naive to expect otherwise.

Days off is 3-6 between trips. Only ID restriction is 2 local nights before a long haul if unacclimatised. ID travel is a different level in terms of the system and experience, and much much easier to get on. Live leave has allowed me to drop trips frequently.

I make slightly less than what I made as a COS08 SFO, very slightly more after HK tax. I have much more left at the end of the month. 12.5% pfund. Health insurance on a different planet to the CX ‘offering’. As is schooling.

As for Dubai, personal opinion but there is literally nothing I miss about HK other than friends, although all but a couple have left. If you think there’s nothing to do then that says more about you. The summer bears the same outcome as the dreadful, humid and thundery one. You stay under covers, which is a lot easier and more pleasant in Dubai. Restaurants, bars, services and recreational facilities are leaps ahead. Facilities are generally new and shiny and nice. The standard of consumer offering is significantly higher in terms of grocery shopping, deliveries, dining out. No risk of being sold rat in a package saying pork. People don’t spit everywhere and slash on the pavement. I’m not hated by the general populace. I don’t have to use public transport, which is certainly very good in HK. I get chauffeured to and from work and I have a car.

I and many others have purchased property. Nice apartments or houses for which the company provide a fair allowance for. Whether you want a big villa for your family or an apartment in a prime area, you have many options. This is absolute pipe dream stuff in HK. It’s ARAPA-esque paying down properties in half the mortgage term if you’re wise about it. Or just allowing you and your family to live somewhere you’re happy to call home.

Work environment is far better. None of the toxicity of CX. Great rapport with the CC, and it all makes for a far more pleasant flight deck environment.

As I said, there’s no comparison. Perfect? No. Far better? Yes.

How long have you been with EK? Have you actually got your 42 days annual leave in 1 year? Rosters can change in a flash. Don’t count on always only doing 70 to 75 hours a month.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Don’t know which fleet you were on but I never had any problem on the flight deck, quite pleasant actually. Loved to flight with the based guys which was a loss but atmosphere is still decent, even the ex 777 are nice ! They own the place ! Pilots are not the problem.
Few weeks ago’ a EK friend (not former CX, EK is his first civvy job) was in town and he loved it, he will start bidding for HK. Also told me a few not very nice stories about EK. So it is all about perspective and options.
By the way I applied myself to EK in anger but I am too old for them !
I never had an issue on the FD either, but the endless (justified) toxicity created a far worse environment than it should/could have been.

first civvy job? That says it all really. No disrespect to him, but you don’t know what you don’t know.

SOPS, I got all of the leave I requested. Kept some back for live leave. I won’t bank on anything, after banking on not getting a 40% pay cut and many other benefits taken away.

[Xulu]

FO's do indeed have 70-75hrs a month, and it's a cushy lifestyle. Captains are working hard at 100hrs and that makes a huge impact throughout your experience of EK and Dubai. Every FO is happy, every Capt is tired and moaning about rosters/leave. That explains the differing reports you may hear.

100hrs brings significant overtime payments though - no one complains about money.

There's a lot of BS about Dubai in this thread. Careful reading emotional anecdotes from heavily biased people. SOPs for example hasn't worked for Ek for many, many years. And no someone's rent isn't allowed to just increase 15% unless it was already 40% below market value (and hence still comparatively cheap). Rent is expensive though, but we recently got another 10% increase in allowance, on top of 20% last year. Now 264k aed/year ($72k).

As another said on the thread, Dubai is in its ascendancy. An up and coming city and is always improving. The city is booming as the inflow of HNW people continues to bring growth. Huge natural gas discoveries off the coast provide Dubai a large runway into the future. Lot's of opportunity here. It's a good place to be.

True, you wont find forests, mountains, fields here. True, public transport is bad, but it's not needed at all to be fair.

I used to love the hustle and bustle of HKG. But after being there recently, you can see people are not particularly happy anymore. People are stressed, rushing around, focussed on being productive - it's not the exciting expat atmosphere of yesteryear. It is markedly less friendly.

In Dubai, people are chilled; enjoying their day, enjoying their life.

Having said that, I do have a soft spot for HKG and Asia in general. I can see why people would want to live there.

[corporal klinger]

Genuine question and no personal attack or attempt to insult anyone.

You have 3 days off, what do you do?

Like today until Saturday. 40 degrees outside.

[BuzzBox]

You have 3 days off, what do you do?

Like today until Saturday. 40 degrees outside.

I'd suggest one would do much the same as one would in HK when it's 30°C, 95% humidity and pissing pick handles: go shopping, see a movie, eat out at a restaurant, visit the local pub, or just stay home!

And remember to slip, slop, slap, seek and slide!

For the uninitiated:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x401/sid_seagull_5_messages_b8ed96d5ef8ad2b0904ce3700b7b2dbce2b38 b04.jpeg

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Genuine question and no personal attack or attempt to insult anyone.

You have 3 days off, what do you do?

Like today until Saturday. 40 degrees outside.
You have no more weather constraints than you do in HK. In fact fewer because there’s so much indoors.

My last few days off have included; golf (morning, hot but still doable), Louvre Abu Dhabi, squash, indoor karting, library, a couple of art exhibits, a drive up to the mountains in RAK for a BBQ, bowling & cinema with a mate’s kids, Sea World & the usual smattering of lunches/dinners/evenings out & coffee with mates. Oh, and the gym - a tiny helping of that! BBQ at a mate’s today after some dune bashing.

loads of gigs and concerts here, which I’m always late to the party in realising..

Other recent blocks I’ve had getaways across southern Europe.

Not too much in the way of shopping malls unless I need something.

YMMV but you can clearly see that there’s more to do in summer than most places, HK included. None of it is a pain, because you drive everywhere in your own car, taxis/Ubers are everywhere (they don’t drive off in a puff of Marlboro smoke when your tell them where you’re going) and the standard of offering across the board is generally much higher.

Very valid point above, despite having a good group of mates, I found HK very unfriendly. Partly cultural, mostly social. Everyone is in a rush, pushing and shoving, gawping at phones, no personal space etc.. Quite the opposite is true here. It’s all very easy-going.

Horses for courses, but I know a good horse when I look in its mouth.

[Xulu]

Genuine question and no personal attack or attempt to insult anyone.

You have 3 days off, what do you do?

Like today until Saturday. 40 degrees outside.

Yeah, you keep asking this. It's an obvious answer; Whatever you want. The city infrastructure is built for the heat. AC, valet parking, door to door, delivery for anything at a touch of a button.

The pools/clubs are packed despite the 40 degrees. It's cool enough to run/cycle in the mornings, and desert safaris are still fine in the evening. There's a ton of indoor sport options. Use the staff travel for a getaway. Meet up with friends. Training/Gym. Work on a side-business. Chase girls. Play music. Read. Study. Theme parks. Hang with your kids. Skiing and snow park if you miss the cold. And yes, the shopping mall with all the usual activities. Just to name a few things.

What is it exactly you imagine the heat prevents you from doing? Life doesn't stop because you can't go for a walk in the midday sun.

[Silent Treatment]

You have no more weather constraints than you do in HK. In fact fewer because there’s so much indoors.

My last few days off have included; golf (morning, hot but still doable), Louvre Abu Dhabi, squash, indoor karting, library, a couple of art exhibits, a drive up to the mountains in RAK for a BBQ, bowling & cinema with a mate’s kids, Sea World & the usual smattering of lunches/dinners/evenings out & coffee with mates. Oh, and the gym - a tiny helping of that! BBQ at a mate’s today after some dune bashing.

loads of gigs and concerts here, which I’m always late to the party in realising..

Other recent blocks I’ve had getaways across southern Europe.

Not too much in the way of shopping malls unless I need something.

YMMV but you can clearly see that there’s more to do in summer than most places, HK included. None of it is a pain, because you drive everywhere in your own car, taxis/Ubers are everywhere (they don’t drive off in a puff of Marlboro smoke when your tell them where you’re going) and the standard of offering across the board is generally much higher.

Very valid point above, despite having a good group of mates, I found HK very unfriendly. Partly cultural, mostly social. Everyone is in a rush, pushing and shoving, gawping at phones, no personal space etc.. Quite the opposite is true here. It’s all very easy-going.

Horses for courses, but I know a good horse when I look in its mouth.

Library?
Now I know for certain this is a wind-up.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

I imagine he keeps asking because HK summers are such lovely times to be outside in a lovely, friendly, happy city.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Library?
Now I know for certain this is a wind-up.
Given the garbage you trot out, I suspect it’s a fairly novel idea to you.

[Silent Treatment]

Given the garbage you trot out, I suspect it’s a fairly novel idea to you.
Are you at the library now, spending your valuable free time arguing online about the place you left and so much despise?
Dubai sounds like a blast.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

Are you at the library now, spending your valuable free time arguing online about the place you left and so much despise?
Dubai sounds like a blast.
You’re clever, you are..

Enjoy COS18.

[Oasis]

'I like chocolate flavor ice-cream!'

'Chocolate is lame! Vanilla better"

"No! how dare you!"

Meanwhile the ice-cream vendors smile.

[Sam Ting Wong]

What's the latest regarding housing? Rumour has it no more cash / own mortgage scheme?
Looks like the market is still going up in Dubai, interesting if you consider interest rate north of 5% now.. Kudos to those who buy into such a market, bold move..I am probably biased, but my money ( literally) is on the HK market. Too much lopen space ready to be built onto in Dubai for my liking, plus Saudia and India copying the business model.. In 10-20 years you might see 50 degrees in that region.. Then again, less risk regarding China/Taiwan compared to here and could be a permanent tax haven.. Time will tell I guess.

[Silent Treatment]

You’re clever, you are..

Enjoy COS18.
I've lived and worked in both places and am currently in neither. COS18...never heard of him.
You should learn to stop whinging, log off from this platform and go enjoy the lifestyle you desperately feel the need to advertise here (and for free).

[Dingleberry Handpump]

I've lived and worked in both places and am currently in neither. COS18...never heard of him.
You should learn to stop whinging, log off from this platform and go enjoy the lifestyle you desperately feel the need to advertise here (and for free).
…said without a hint of irony

[Shazeem]

FO's do indeed have 70-75hrs a month, and it's a cushy lifestyle. Captains are working hard at 100hrs and that makes a huge impact throughout your experience of EK and Dubai. Every FO is happy, every Capt is tired and moaning about rosters/leave. That explains the differing reports you may hear.

100hrs brings significant overtime payments though - no one complains about money.

There's a lot of BS about Dubai in this thread. Careful reading emotional anecdotes from heavily biased people. SOPs for example hasn't worked for Ek for many, many years. And no someone's rent isn't allowed to just increase 15% unless it was already 40% below market value (and hence still comparatively cheap). Rent is expensive though, but we recently got another 10% increase in allowance, on top of 20% last year. Now 264k aed/year ($72k).

As another said on the thread, Dubai is in its ascendancy. An up and coming city and is always improving. The city is booming as the inflow of HNW people continues to bring growth. Huge natural gas discoveries off the coast provide Dubai a large runway into the future. Lot's of opportunity here. It's a good place to be.

True, you wont find forests, mountains, fields here. True, public transport is bad, but it's not needed at all to be fair.

I used to love the hustle and bustle of HKG. But after being there recently, you can see people are not particularly happy anymore. People are stressed, rushing around, focussed on being productive - it's not the exciting expat atmosphere of yesteryear. It is markedly less friendly.

In Dubai, people are chilled; enjoying their day, enjoying their life.

Having said that, I do have a soft spot for HKG and Asia in general. I can see why people would want to live there.

Speak for yourself. Many colleague f/o' s are not happy at all but there is no alternative. Going back to their home country with their fam isn't an option.
It is good that you are positive, keeps you sane. Self protection is natural.
In Dubai people are chilled? Perhaps in your tiny bubble.
Just make sure you have the notes for your OPC/LPC and you will be fine.
The tractordrivers have more than 75 hours a month. But EK isn't bad compared to the rest (us and eur legacy exempted).
Halas.

[Xulu]

Speak for yourself. Many colleague f/o' s are not happy at all but there is no alternative. Going back to their home country with their fam isn't an option.
It is good that you are positive, keeps you sane. Self protection is natural.
In Dubai people are chilled? Perhaps in your tiny bubble.
Just make sure you have the notes for your OPC/LPC and you will be fine.
The tractordrivers have more than 75 hours a month. But EK isn't bad compared to the rest (us and eur legacy exempted).
Halas.

So by your own admission you wouldn't be happy being a pilot anywhere except US legacy. Change career or start a business if you think you are entitled to more in life. Apply for the green card lottery and head to the US. Go get it, king!

You're making 15-20k a month. Living in a big villa with maids and nannies. Kids in private school. Fly First/Business class. Chauffeur-driven to work. 6 month bonus. But you aren't happy still; That's on you. The vast majority of men would swap lives with you in an instant. How do you think your maid and driver feels seeing you moan and complain? The baggage handlers, the aircraft cleaners. The office staff?

Look inwards and make the change you need. Take responsibility for your own happiness.

[Shazeem]

So by your own admission you wouldn't be happy being a pilot anywhere except US legacy. Change career or start a business if you think you are entitled to more in life. Apply for the green card lottery and head to the US. Go get it, king!

You're making 15-20k a month. Living in a big villa with maids and nannies. Kids in private school. Fly First/Business class. Chauffeur-driven to work. 6 month bonus. But you aren't happy still; That's on you. The vast majority of men would swap lives with you in an instant. How do you think your maid and driver feels seeing you moan and complain? The baggage handlers, the aircraft cleaners. The office staff?

Look inwards and make the change you need. Take responsibility for your own happiness.

Thank you for your advice. Although very simplistic.
Happiness is not a binary thing. It is very subjective. So you are happy with your driver, maid and nannies, who are afraid of you. Did you ever talk to them on a personal humane level? I like to raise our kids myself. How much money do you need to be happy? The fact that you can be fired in an eyeblink does not make me happy and you? That you as an employee have zero rights does not make me happier, how about you?

For me happiness involves spending time with my family, being able to plan time with them, having some control of my life outside of work. What good is being able to travel in Business/ First when you don't have off days? And are tired.

​​​​​​It is all relative. If you lose your job, Emirates is walhalla. But there must have been a reason why one didn't want to come and be here sooner. Good luck with your maids, nannies and money, you can always use luck.
At least in Dubai you can pretend to be something.


​​​​

[Pickuptruck]

Better paid? EK would be a paycut for me ( CN 3). Plus a fair comparison needs to include block hours and days off..
Cos 18 sucks, but at least for me the answer is going home rather than to a different plantation.
This is utter BS, an equivalent apartment for what you get in DXB even for an F/O in HKG would be at least $80K, figure $120-140 for an equivalent villa in HKG. There are plenty of guys putting a ton of money into accommodation costs to have a normal life, now that the housing allowance has been cut by 70%. Take that out of your pay-packet and there's no way it's a paycut to join EK from CN3. It's local conditions in CX now, so it will never again compare to an expat gig anywhere.
On the other hand, if you want to live on Lamma Island in 300 sq ft and dine forever on fish soup, HKG is real cheap.
As for days off, CX is now rostering some of your 8 G days down route so you could be working all month and never get more than 12 hrs at home.

[corporal klinger]

This is utter BS, an equivalent apartment for what you get in DXB even for an F/O in HKG would be at least $80K, figure $120-140 for an equivalent villa in HKG. There are plenty of guys putting a ton of money into accommodation costs to have a normal life, now that the housing allowance has been cut by 70%. Take that out of your pay-packet and there's no way it's a paycut to join EK from CN3. It's local conditions in CX now, so it will never again compare to an expat gig anywhere.
On the other hand, if you want to live on Lamma Island in 300 sq ft and dine forever on fish soup, HKG is real cheap.
As for days off, CX is now rostering some of your 8 G days down route so you could be working all month and never get more than 12 hrs at home.

You are wrong. Joining EK would indeed cut my pay in half, probably more since I had to start in the right seat again. I own my flat (bigger than 300 sqfeet), I regularly get productivity pay, never had less than 10 off days, usually more, and never a G day enroute. Ever.This is the truth. How about an apology?

[Bekol delay]

You are wrong. Joining EK would indeed cut my pay in half, probably more since I had to start in the right seat again. I own my flat (bigger than 300 sqfeet), I regularly get productivity pay, never had less than 10 off days, usually more, and never a G day enroute. Ever.This is the truth. How about an apology?
This. I don't need to depart the frying pan inbound the fire.

[Pickuptruck]

You are wrong. Joining EK would indeed cut my pay in half, probably more since I had to start in the right seat again. I own my flat (bigger than 300 sqfeet), I regularly get productivity pay, never had less than 10 off days, usually more, and never a G day enroute. Ever.This is the truth. How about an apology?

Ok, I apologise. So, much like a Villa at EK, you're also in a 2500 sqft sized place but in Hkg which even in todays market is $10-12m USD. And you own it. Awesome. Or more likely you're in 800 sq ft, 1100 sqft gross under the messed up "I own some of the elevator and the janitor's ****ter" measuring that only occurs in HKG. And you think that's massive, no Airbus wide body skipper anywhere in the world lives in bigger than 800 sq ft is what you're thinking, so you're king of the world.
You'd be going as a DEC so actually no, your experience would land you in the LHS.
They just started with G days enroute, I'm not surprised you haven't got any yet much like unrequested W patterns that have also just arrived.
Productivity pay? Bwahahaha. It's a 74% paycut from previous COS if you do the old magical 106 hrs.
If you've seriously got $10-12 million USD tied up in property in HKG with all the economic warning signs Hong Kong has and you're hanging onto it, my condolences.

[corporal klinger]

All your conclusions are wrong, not sure how else to put it so you are willing to accept the truth. You seem incapable to see the world through a different viewpoint.

On a side note, I have unfortunately seen too many colleagues making emotional decisions, and you seem guided more out of hate for the old rather than love for the new.. No idea how EK will work out for you, and if you actually had read and processed my posts you would find that I never said anything against joining EK in general. Just for me it would not make sense. I sincerely hope you based your decision on sustainable and meaningful numbers. Logically it does not make sense to focus on the paycut at CX over the years, but to look at current numbers and those of alternatives only. Your post is suspiciously full of references to the past. Again, emotionally understandable, but logically wrong.

For me the squarefeet of my place are not a problem.I like to live in my own property and I would not buy in Dubai, for various reasons. I simply would not want to swap with a "villa" in a suburb of Dubai.No matter how big.

Commands might come sooner or later than advertised, nature of the business. Wait and see how the climate and the local mentality look like after a while. I don't think you can judge EK yet, it will take years. Once the new becomes the old you will know.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Forget it, Klinger. It's impossible to point out individual differences in here, beyond the level of comprehension if these guys. And don't even try to point out financial losses/ promotion/ block hours etc. You will always be the guy who blindly defends Cathay, full of Stockholm etc. Hopeless.

[MENELAUS]

All your conclusions are wrong, not sure how else to put it so you are willing to accept the truth. You seem incapable to see the world through a different viewpoint.

On a side note, I have unfortunately seen too many colleagues making emotional decisions, and you seem guided more out of hate for the old rather than love for the new.. No idea how EK will work out for you, and if you actually had read and processed my posts you would find that I never said anything against joining EK in general. Just for me it would not make sense. I sincerely hope you based your decision on sustainable and meaningful numbers. Logically it does not make sense to focus on the paycut at CX over the years, but to look at current numbers and those of alternatives only. Your post is suspiciously full of references to the past. Again, emotionally understandable, but logically wrong.

For me the squarefeet of my place are not a problem.I like to live in my own property and I would not buy in Dubai, for various reasons. I simply would not want to swap with a "villa" in a suburb of Dubai.No matter how big.

Commands might come sooner or later than advertised, nature of the business. Wait and see how the climate and the local mentality look like after a while. I don't think you can judge EK yet, it will take years. Once the new becomes the old you will know.

A polite and reasoned response Corporal. Kudos.

[Fac6]

Ok, I apologise. So, much like a Villa at EK, you're also in a 2500 sqft sized place but in Hkg which even in todays market is $10-12m USD. And you own it. Awesome. Or more likely you're in 800 sq ft, 1100 sqft gross under the messed up "I own some of the elevator and the janitor's ****ter" measuring that only occurs in HKG. And you think that's massive, no Airbus wide body skipper anywhere in the world lives in bigger than 800 sq ft is what you're thinking, so you're king of the world.
You'd be going as a DEC so actually no, your experience would land you in the LHS.
They just started with G days enroute, I'm not surprised you haven't got any yet much like unrequested W patterns that have also just arrived.
Productivity pay? Bwahahaha. It's a 74% paycut from previous COS if you do the old magical 106 hrs.
If you've seriously got $10-12 million USD tied up in property in HKG with all the economic warning signs Hong Kong has and you're hanging onto it, my condolences.

I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.

Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.

As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.

Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.

Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.

Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.

Peace...

[Babyjet_dododo]

The avid supporters are back! How quickly you guys forget what we went through with covid.

-POS 18 - yeah productivity pay is amazing but how long you think that will last for? It’s an expense that the company can easily cut. Also what will happen when they recruit enough pilots? Bye bye productivity pay.

- Medical - Yet to hear of any another company that deducts your medical plan HK if you get injured in an outport.

- Schooling - Enjoy the public system. The allowance is laughable for an international school.

- Employee abandonment - Y’all forget how the company sold us out to the government and abandoned our needs, all for the sake to “keep the company moving”. Forgetting the Frankfurt saga so quickly? Guess you weren’t stuck in PB with your family in a shipping container.
How about getting shipped off to PB after a turnaround because you used the same aircraft as someone who was Covid positive, then made to feel like a beggar, asking for basic necessities that the company “doesn’t provide”.

And after all this you still defend the company? It just shows you’re only in a minority group. An employee engagement survey score of -91 tells you all you need to know about the company.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.

Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.

As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.

Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.

Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.

Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.

Peace...
Reasonable stuff.

As a correction - at EK you get paid for the entire block time. Not that you need to rely on duty pay because it is much more similar to previous CX, where you’re on a base salary that accounts for the vast majority of your income.

[Fac6]

The avid supporters are back! How quickly you guys forget what we went through with covid.

-POS 18 - yeah productivity pay is amazing but how long you think that will last for? It’s an expense that the company can easily cut. Also what will happen when they recruit enough pilots? Bye bye productivity pay.

- Medical - Yet to hear of any another company that deducts your medical plan HK if you get injured in an outport.

- Schooling - Enjoy the public system. The allowance is laughable for an international school.

- Employee abandonment - Y’all forget how the company sold us out to the government and abandoned our needs, all for the sake to “keep the company moving”. Forgetting the Frankfurt saga so quickly? Guess you weren’t stuck in PB with your family in a shipping container.
How about getting shipped off to PB after a turnaround because you used the same aircraft as someone who was Covid positive, then made to feel like a beggar, asking for basic necessities that the company “doesn’t provide”.

And after all this you still defend the company? It just shows you’re only in a minority group. An employee engagement survey score of -91 tells you all you need to know about the company.

If you are referring to me, I'm not an avid supporter by any means and I agree with you, in that the thresholds may not last and can be adjusted as/when CX deem fit. For those that are returning to HKG I don't judge them but I hope they are not basing their return on what productivity others are getting right now, a very dangerous move if so. I also said HKG only works if you have NO children or ones who have left the nest.

If I was an 'avid supporter" I would have returned long ago but I'm enjoying life back home here in California which I will never leave. I had a good run in CX but now is the time to enjoy flying for a major US carrier where we are seeing huge pay increases and have a contract that cant be turned into policy.

May I ask, are you still in HKG?

[cygnet78]

I think CX still have a lot of new pilots application, and the current pilots not leaving fast enough. hahahaha....

[Babyjet_dododo]

If you are referring to me, I'm not an avid supporter by any means and I agree with you, in that the thresholds may not last and can be adjusted as/when CX deem fit. For those that are returning to HKG I don't judge them but I hope they are not basing their return on what productivity others are getting right now, a very dangerous move if so. I also said HKG only works if you have NO children or ones who have left the nest.

If I was an 'avid supporter" I would have returned long ago but I'm enjoying life back home here in California which I will never leave. I had a good run in CX but now is the time to enjoy flying for a major US carrier where we are seeing huge pay increases and have a contract that cant be turned into policy.

May I ask, are you still in HKG?

I wasn’t referring to you, no. I’ve already moved on (very recently) but it just astounds me the people defending them.

[corporal klinger]

I think a misunderstanding on your side. Rather than "defending" their employer, I see individuals evaluating their options and conclude the status quo is still more advantageous than the alternatives available. That's all.

[Babyjet_dododo]

I think a misunderstanding on your side. Rather than "defending" their employer, I see individuals evaluating their options and conclude the status quo is still more advantageous than the alternatives available. That's all.

So advantageous that the seniority number is struggling to stay above 2400 pilots? Tell me what you find so advantageous about forking our more money to cover expenses that we’re covered under previous contracts?

[corporal klinger]

I find your argument illogical. Past losses are not an intrinsic argument.

Think about a stock trade as example. You would hold the stock over alternative available investments if you expect better performance, even if the stock has underperformed in the past.

Now, different stock traders might come to different conclusions regarding future performance of course. Also,not every trader has the same alternative investment options, they have different time lines, different budgets, different risk profiles, different associates etc.

But the principle is always the same.

[Babyjet_dododo]

I find your argument illogical. Past losses are not an intrinsic argument.

Think about a stock trade as example. You would hold the stock over alternative available investments if you expect better performance, even if the stock has underperformed in the past.

Now, different stock traders might come to different conclusions regarding future performance of course. Also,not every trader has the same alternative investment options, they have different time lines, different budgets, different risk profiles, different associates etc.

But the principle is always the same.

That’s the worst comparison I have ever read.

[AQIS Boigu]

Wow…


I'm no longer in CX mainly due to the pay cut but I can't recall it being 74% for me at CN 4. I'm not defending CX by any means but the presumptions you make are not correct. I have many friends living in condos fully paid off much bigger than 800 sq ft. I myself had a place paid off which was around 1400 sq ft. I was well above threshold nearly every month and I didn't have to fly 106 hours as you mention. I needed to do about 70 to earn the same as my previous contract.

- How many loops did you do to get above the threshold (unless you were on the 747)?

- So how many young B scalers and C scalers have got a place paid off suitable for a family? Not a single one I have flown with recently

Many of my friends who have remained in HK own their condos outright. Yes I left due to the pay cut, my contract was decimated and changed to "policy" but I do not judge my peers who stayed. We all have various reasons for big life decisions that we make and no one is right or wrong.

- Your friends must be all in the top 300 of the seniority list, definitely not a benchmark for the average CX pilot

As I have said, I am not defending CX but merely pointing out to you facts. IMHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you.

- Correct, or be a returnee who got his pfund paid out, one annual salary as a good bye present and return on Capt 4 after having NOT experienced the worst two years of HKG ever. Sounds like a great deal.

Regarding G days down route, not many of my friends are experiencing it and those that have got them now have 5 day patterns instead of 4. In EK you only get paid for the time you do in the seat whereas in CX you get paid for the whole flight. It seems most airlines (except US carriers) are set on giving pilots min days off and it's becoming the industry norm in most countries sadly.

Dubai is a great place, I loved staying there, its great for a holiday or for visiting friends but to live in that heat 24/7 is not appealing for a lot of people. That doesn't mean HKG is better than DXB or vice versa, it's just some things work for some people and not for others. It's all down to personal choice and whatever choice my peers make is their choice and no one else's business, particularly yours or mine.

Its not a dick measuring competition of who's life/job is better. As I said, its all down to personal preference. I would suggest less anger and mocking as it will take years of your life.

- Pretty much every pilot with kids in an ESF school is financially &%$#ed - what a great place to be. No wonder literally everyone is trying to get into training so they can become an STC ASAP and make the big bucks.

And the rest…???

[Fac6]

- Pretty much every pilot with kids in an ESF school is financially &%$#ed - what a great place to be. No wonder literally everyone is trying to get into training so they can become an STC ASAP and make the big bucks.

And the rest…???

I did say "MHO, the only real way to make HKG work nowadays is to own a place with no mortgage and have no kids, or kids that have flown the nest and are now not dependant on you."

However, I understand and respect your points and you are right, a lot of my friends are very senior.

It all sounds a terrible mess over there right now and I hope it gets better for those who remained or have returned.