HAA Ec135 accident in NC all survived 10th March 2023

[havoc]

https://foxchattanooga.com/news/local/life-force-6-crashes-in-north-carolina-while-transporting-patient-macon-county-helicopter-erlanger-hospital-crash-accident​​​​​​​

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x675/97c9e97c_7425_486a_8d3a_12cd49f2dc38_0b1058382fb9c4cb5d5e97d 9455ea9c811a47dfe.jpeg

[SASless]

First Accident for Erlanger in its 34 Year history.

https://www.ems1.com/air-medical-transport/articles/patient-crew-survive-nc-medical-helicopter-crash-Yg4xfvk3VyJvm2RO/

Night....forested and mountainous area....if it was a forced landing as reported then the Pilot should be congratulated upon the outcome.

Finding a road in that area was tough as there are not many of them to be found and are narrow, crooked, and lined by tall trees....with very little vehicular traffic showing lights to be seen.

[SilsoeSid]

Daytime pics & report... https://tinyurl.com/37t2cynj

The EC-135 medical transportation helicopter with four people on board went down about 7 p.m. along Middle Burningtown Road in Macon County.
Macon County 911 Communications Supervisor Todd Seagle said a call declaring an emergency came in about 7 p.m., and, moments after the call ended, the helicopter went down.

Seagle said Thursday night the patient and two crew members were taken to Mission. The pilot was not transported. Erlanger Health System president and CEO Jim Coleman said Friday one crew member had been evaluated and released and two others on board were admitted to Mission Health.Officials said Thursday that LIFE FORCE 6 was transporting a patient from a medical facility in Murphy to Mission Hospital in Asheville when it crashed.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1200/c81331c1_6244_43a8_aeda_b9170be8ce45_image1_214f81a69a69afb1 4473b2c58eda2c3083056eab.jpeg

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/309060

[Sir Korsky]

Having been through the MedTrans contract training program in the 135, I can honestly say the training was outstanding and some of the best I have ever undertaken. There was no scraping by, you had to perform and know your numbers. The IPs would not suffer mediocre and some folk couldn't make it through and were returned to their owners !

[Bellicose]

"That'll buff out"

[Kulwin Park]

That has come down at a lot of G's to spread the skids and push the belly up like that. Kudos to the pilot for making such a great forced landing!!!!!!!!!!
Shows you how crash worthy those Airbus 135 airframe pods are. Glad all survived.

Just looking those blades are rigid enough not to come down into the escaping crew & pilots, and not create a hazard for exiting. Nice!

[FH1100 Pilot]

First Accident for Erlanger in its 34 Year history.

https://www.ems1.com/air-medical-transport/articles/patient-crew-survive-nc-medical-helicopter-crash-Yg4xfvk3VyJvm2RO/

Night....forested and mountainous area....if it was a forced landing as reported then the Pilot should be congratulated upon the outcome.
Well...it appears that the pilot may have had to do the forced landing because he hit some trees IN CRUISE FLIGHT, then lost some bits from the helicopter (like the skids and half of the horizontal stab) and then had to put it down. Maybe we ought to hold off on the congratulations until we find out what really happened.

[SASless]

FH,

Seems a very harsh thing to say about a Pilot involved in an accident UNLESS you can provide some basis to feel free to say such a thing.

Exactly what do you base your comment upon.....as unless you have a provable source handy....you might find yourself liable for some repercussions.

What you describe might turn out to be the case.....but nothing seen in this Thread supports you allegation.

Care to elaborate on this?

[212man]

but nothing seen in this Thread supports you allegation.

Apart from the fact that the photos don't appear to show any skids present! Pretty sure FH is not basing his comments on what's in this thread though

[SASless]

Could the skids be just out of view of the photos.....as there have not been a lot of them posted (including the video).

The possibility it was CFIT cannot be discounted as it was dark, mountainous, scarce lighting from structures and vehicles, and perhaps the weather played a role.

But....nothing seen here supports a finite assertion of that as made by FH1100.


Burningtown Bald peak is 5125 feet MSL (or 5112 feet).....and the track of the aircraft shows passing all but over it....then it makes a turn to the south in the general direction of Franklin where there is a small airfield.

Burningtown Gap also in immediate vicinity of the turn is slightly lower by about 900 feet.

https://mapcarta.com/21262182

That could be significant depending upon the altitude the aircraft was maintaining at the time.

When you add Weather Radar Returns to the Flight Aware information....for both the flight outbound....then the return flight the accident occurred there does appear to be some weather that might have played a role.

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a71e48&lat=35.223&lon=-83.575&zoom=15.8&showTrace=2023-03-09&leg=8

[retoocs]

In the first link it does say:

The Macon County Sheriff says the helicopter hit a tree, damaging it's tail rotor and forcing the pilot to crash land on the road.

[Sir Korsky]

The usual PPRUNE mantra of instantly admonishing anybody that dares to make a comment outside of the unwritten rules. This is why nobody dares to post here and it makes the site sterile. Discussion brings the lurkers into the conversation and this is the most valuable asset of this forum. I have learned more here over the years than from any other reference. So stop dissuading folk to make their point, even if it goes against your grain.

[SASless]

Sir Korsky,

Where did the idea hitting the tree in CRUISE FLIGHT come from is my question.

Suggesting it may have been CFIT....is not far fetched and certainly a possibility.

The Macon County Sheriff saying the tail rotor hit a tree and caused the crash leaves out the part about when, where, and why the tail rotor hit the tree as I read it.

Clearly the photos and video do not how the skids but that is not proof positive the skids are not near by an in a logical place in the debris field.

Has there been any information made public that tells of the discovery and location of the skids and the components that would substantiate the matter?

At least VRS has not been claimed as the cause yet....but hang on....perhaps that will be among the causes offered as usual.

Do we know what the existing weather was at the time of the crash?

Was the Pilot using NVG's and all of the other kit onboard the aircraft?

Was the aircraft on an IFR or VFR Flight Plan"

Lots of questions remain unaddressed in what is known about this accident.

Perhaps FH100 can provide more than he did which would advance the discussion.

If you were the Pilot involved....would you like to accused of flying into the trees and cause an accident by doing so....with the available information contained in this Thread currently?

In time that might be exactly what happened.....why not give the guy a fair shake until the evidence is incontrovertible and proves that is what happened.

[Sir Korsky]

Wasn't a personal assault SAS, it was a general statement. Too many people on this site are like salient beasts, waiting to jump on anybody who dares to break the code of conduct. It's generally disruptive to this platform and prevents fair comment being broadcast. PPrune would be a much more livelier place if folk weren't terrified of making a point or posting a thread. There has been a decline in the quality and quantity of posting over the years and I attribute it to the element of fear installed within the members and guests to speak up. There is a blend of highly experienced professionals and just interested parties that frequent this site. I'm interested in what everybody has to say, whether I agree or not.

[SASless]

I did not take it personally.... and if I did I have a very thick skin as I have been a helicopter pilot for a very long time and understand what goes on in a Pilot's Crew Room and the Pub especially when they are one and the same!

If we all agreed it would mean at least one of us is not thinking.

We do not have to have all the pieces to see what thePicture Puzzle looks like but until we have enough of the pieces in place to rule out everything else then we should be careful about what the true picture looks like.

An example, we are told the Pilot declared an Emergency that caused him to make a Forced Landing....but we do not know what happened to cause that Emergency Call and the subsequent Forced Landing.

I suggest that is a both a logical question and a very important one.

Was there a Mechanical problem or was there a tree strike that caused the mechanical problem....as either could be the case.

I am sure the 135 Emergency Checklist has at least one "Land Immediately" EOP?

In the Thread about the UK Mod procurement for the Puma Replacement, John Dixson discussed the Emergency Landing made during the UTTAS fly off competition where the Blackhawk was landing into trees by the Test Pilots.....so those things do occur.

[SilsoeSid]

On first looking at the pictures, did anyone else think… fuel?
We learnt a lot from the past, but have we learnt everything?

Anyhoo, with a distress call being made, of course depending what that call contained, some things can possibly be ruled out.

[Jack Carson]

This discussion seems to have migrated from facts to speculation I am sure that the cause of this event will ultimately be determined. On the other hand having flown many variants of the EC-135 I am impressed with the EC-135’s crash worthiness and how this contributed to the survivability in this case. I hope others will provide some details of the EC-135 design specifics. One example that I am familiar with is the specific very robust design and testing of the EC-135 fuel system including the tank.

[gipsymagpie]

There have been a few quite violent accidents in EC135 where the main fuselage has done a good job of retaining sufficient integrity to keep the occupants alive. The designers thought about it in some regards - for example the fuel sensors have built in weak points so they break rather than penetrating the roof of the fuel cell during a hard landing. I would be a bit surprised if the skids got ripped off without leading to a terminal nose over for the aircraft. It seems very odd to damage the tail rotor in the cruise without damaging the rest of the aircraft. If he had no tail rotor he would almost certainly have rolled over. The aircraft looks very much like a straight vertical impact was the mechanism (it doesn't appear to have been stopped in forward motion by the trees for example). But you can see he still had a rotating head on impact. Compare it to the BK117 C2 that crashed from an inadvertent wrong engine shutdown. The blades were intact in that case as they were not turning on impact.

In other factual information, the local airport (Macon County) at 2000ft elevation was reporting overcast at 2000 ft. The crash site at around the 4000 ft point with sunset around 20 mins after the incident time (not factoring in terrain). Not a nice set of operating conditions.

[RVDT]

Known unknowns and all and purely conjecture - the cross tubes seem to be still underneath it and the fenestron blades all seem pretty straight so....................?

[SASless]

911 Tapes re the crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBMptqitqig

[Cabby]

Overhead view and other data. Pilot did well to put it down on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RJUG54xe3Q

[SASless]

The overhead view sure raises some questions and appears to show a fuel spill from the aircraft running across the roadway into the grass on the left side of the aircraft.

Additionally, it appears there was major damage to a couple of the main rotor blades and from the original photos and video the Tail Rotor Blades appeared intact despite the damage that broke the tail. boom and bent the the now exposed tail rotor drive shaft.

That the aircraft impacted the roadway lined by trees but between to open fields seems odd.

Was the aircraft under power or not? Is there enough visual indications to suggest it was not?

Was it dark at the time of the accident....what was the visibility.....was the Pilot using. NVG's at the time?

What does the photos and videos lead us to think? What do they tell us as we view them?

[Sir Korsky]

The PIC was was in the process of making an IMC avoidance decent, got distracted heads down and struck the tree line, lost tail authority and auto'd from 100 feet. Just read prelim. Easily done unfortunately.

[212man]

The PIC was was in the process of making an IMC avoidance decent, got distracted heads down and struck the tree line, lost tail authority and auto'd from 100 feet. Just read prelim. Easily done unfortunately.
Any link? I found one in searching but it didn't work (https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:94:382940853596::::P94_ENTRY_DATE:10-MAR-23)

[[email protected]]

Great work getting down in auto from 100' in the dark on a wooded hillside - not so great work avoiding the cloud by hitting the trees.

Seems an odd choice in skoshie weather to fly over the highest ground around if you are not going proper IFR.

Just good they are all still around to talk about it.

[skadi]

Deleted

skadi

[SASless]

Some interesting comments that beg some questions due to the lack of any corroborative information.

The referenced Accident Report is what? Can it not be posted for the rest of us to consider?

What is an "IMC Avoidance Descent"? Is that a new way of saying IIMC encounter at night in close proximity to mountainous terrain?

"Got distracted heads down....".

I looked for that Preliminary Report but did not have much time and did not find it....so I did try.

Not faulting the import of what you posted as there was lots of circumstantial evidence pointing towards what you provided.

So....it begins to appear there was a very good outcome to what could have been yet another EMS Night IIMC/CFIT accident.

Now the questions should begin to be asked about why that particular route of flight was decided upon as a terrain analysis would show there were lower ground routes with small towns and other ground lighting that could have been used.

Was the Pilot using NVG's that would mitigate the use of flight over elevated unlit areas?

With the weather being marginal....was the Dispatch Center monitoring weather sources along the route to ensure the Pilot was being provided up to date existing weather or did the boxes get ticked prior to departure and the pilot was left to his own devices?

Single Pilot at night over the mountains in a helicopter is a very demanding business and imposes a tremendous work load on the Pilot especially in marginal weather and the flight being done VFR counting upon VMC weather all along the route.

[Sir Korsky]

Single Pilot at night over the mountains in a helicopter is a very demanding business and imposes a tremendous work load on the Pilot especially in marginal weather and the flight being done VFR counting upon VMC weather all along the route.

and if you don't have a plan and stick to it, this happens. When the learned Mr Nick Lappos used to educate hungry listeners, instead of spouting perpetual political nonsense over on Linkedin, he would champion CFIT avoidance techniques and planning was a far more powerful training event than teaching stuck pedal and tail rotor failures. The FAA want more scenario based training, but there really aren't many takers.

[[email protected]]

and if you don't have a plan and stick to it, this happens. agreed.

Not saying it happened in this case, but having a critical casualty - or one that was stable suddenly going into cardiac arrest, when your medical crew are working hard to preserve life - can skew your risk appetite and make you consider less appealing but time-saving options.

Another good reason for having a second pilot to be the voice of reason but sometimes that can become an echo chamber or a voice too quiet to be heard.

[SASless]

What starts off wrong only gets worse with effort.

If you have a bad plan and it is poorly executed....only bad outcomes are possible shy of some sort of divine intervention.

First off let's deal with the mission statement of an EMS Helicopter operation.....staring with "....the provision of safe and reliable aeromedical transportation".

Helicopter EMS is a business that operates on a profit/loss basis just like the corner Off License shop.

In time we shall learn more of what is supposed to have happened that night but did not and the reasons being used to explain it away.

Fortunately, everyone survived this event and that is a blessing.

The full truth coming out would be an added benefit as it should prove to be beneficial for a "lessons learned" presentation at EMS Training sessions.

One question I am harboring is whether the Operator has already thrown the Pilot under the Bus containing the Lawyers lining up to make a pot of money off this and trying to shield itself by doing so.

As Pilots we must always keep in mind the fact that we are liable for our actions especially when someone gets hurt or killed.

Every "plan" has to keep that fact as part of the factors to be considered before launching off into the air.

A good Aviation Accident Lawyer is going to have fun with this one I am betting.....not so much for the recovery in this one but adding to his list of "Win's" for more serious accident cases he hopes to get.

[wrench1]

Wrong thread.
​​​​​​​ (https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/106990/pdf)

[helichris]

\ The FAA want more scenario based training, but there really aren't many takers.
Do they have to ask? BTW, the prelim has no information as to what happened.

[Sir Korsky]

The prelim was an internal company document that came to my attention and nothing official from the Feds. Misleading choice of words. No big secret, but probably not a good idea to post it. Some of the members here are aware of it and have read it.

[gipsymagpie]

https://aerossurance.com/air-accidents-incidents/ec135-air-ambulance-cfit-when-pilot-distracted-correcting-tech-log-errors/

Pilot flying in poor light and decided to review some tech log errors rather than don his NVIS. To his credit he says it's entirely his own fault but as Aerossurance mentions the NTSB don't seem to have dug very deep with respect to the root causes for why the pilot found it even remotely necessary to look at the tech log in flight whilst single pilot in marginal conditions. That act in flight seems to be the pinnacle of poor prioritisation. Also doesn't mention why rad alt didn't give sufficient warning or how HTAWS would have have alerted in good time. More holes than cheese in this case.

[Sir Korsky]

To his credit he says it's entirely his own fault.

and hopefully this self admission will prevent his termination.

[gipsymagpie]

and hopefully this self admission will prevent his termination.
He no longer works for the company but it's not clear whether he left or was asked to leave.

[SASless]

Of what value are the "tools" provided to the Pilot if he elects not to use them?

Low level cutting through a mountain pass with higher ground all around...at night....in marginal weather....your NVG's flipped up so you can read the Tech Log.....why do I sense this is not the whole story behind this accident.....or the other factors that played a role.

I agree.....sever absence of cheese on this one.

Let's wait for the official report and see how shallow a dive was done in the conduct of the accident investigation.

[gipsymagpie]

Let's wait for the official report and see how shallow a dive was done in the conduct of the accident investigation.

No more reporting; it's all done. Correspondence investigation only. Bizarre NTSB decision!

[TWT]

There's a link to an NTSB report in the article linked by gipsymagpie in post # 34

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/106859/pdf

[mnttech]

It is alarming there was no mention of a HTAWS caution/warning within his statement. Nor did the ELT go off after either impact.
I wonder if the NTSB will open a second investigation about the HTAWS, at least internally.

[havoc]

ELT comment, AMC had an AStar go down in 2015. ELT did not activate and if I recall around the same time frame +- a Canadian air ambulance had an ELT fail to activate.

Cant recall the NTSB findings but the AMC ELT tested ok, placement in the acct was thought to be an issue

[mnttech]

ELT comment, AMC had an AStar go down in 2015. ELT did not activate and if I recall around the same time frame +- a Canadian air ambulance had an ELT fail to activate.

Agree on the ELT, made me go dig...
ACR Electronics Issued ELT System SB (Service Bulletin) SB1000, on January 14, 2019. This was followed up by an FAA SAIB (Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin) on June 18, 2019 and an EASA AD (Airworthiness Directive) on September 21, 2019. All of these Notices call for the replacement of the original non-hermetically sealed G-Switch on an ARTEX ELT with an updated hermetically sealed G-Switch.

The issue behind all these notice is an airworthiness concern about the ELT not transmitting its alert and distress location signals in the case of an accident, due to a non-functioning G-switch. ELTs located in high vibration environments, such as the tail of a helicopter, could have its acceleration sensor deteriorate after having been subjected to high levels of shock and vibration.
Artex ELT (https://www.duncanaviation.aero/intelligence/2020/February/artex-elt-mandatory-service-bulletin-sb1000)

[RVDT]

An EC135 of that vintage would not normally have HTAWS fitted as standard ex factory and as quoted in Aerossurance article it was not verified. Probably dual Garmin 430's or 530/430 combo.

Seems that he lost anti-torque with the initial tree impact and as I quoted earlier the Fenestron blades don't show rotational damage with the structure. Clipped off the driveshaft with the MR blades?

As to the ELT not going off, even though mandated, ELT's historically don't actually work that well when needed. Statistically it is less than 50% for all reasons. Pro-active tracking beats it hands down and preferably satellite based. ADELT is just as poor or worse. And a ULB has no case for safety of life in the short term.

It is expected to work "after" the fact which is the key. It is pretty easy to make one "not work". Dodgy "G" switches (common), antenna broke off (common), a little bit of water over the antenna....................

As to the "urgency" of checking the records, my experience is that most inspections apart from major ones have a leeway in the MM of roughly 10 percent and the aircraft is unlikely to spontaneously turn into a pumpkin if exceeded.

Hard to comprehend the actions and priorities and I suppose the "real" root cause may never surface?

[FH1100 Pilot]

FH,

Seems a very harsh thing to say about a Pilot involved in an accident UNLESS you can provide some basis to feel free to say such a thing.

Exactly what do you base your comment upon.....as unless you have a provable source handy....you might find yourself liable for some repercussions.

What you describe might turn out to be the case.....but nothing seen in this Thread supports your allegation.

Care to elaborate on this?
Well, SAS, some of us are hooked into this industry better than others. And by "others," I mean you.
EC135 Air Ambulance CFIT when Pilot Distracted Correcting Tech Log Errors - Aerossurance (https://aerossurance.com/air-accidents-incidents/ec135-air-ambulance-cfit-when-pilot-distracted-correcting-tech-log-errors/)

PIC: "Coming back heads up, I saw that we were rapidly approaching the tree covered peak of a mountain. There was no doubt in my mind that impact was imminent. I hauled back on the cyclic to affect a max rate climb. Nearly simultaneously, the undercarriage of the aircraft and tail boom struck several trees with the sound and force expected when those two objects collide at 132 kts."

You could get off your high horse and say "Hey, you were right!" But I know you won't.

[SASless]

"Plugged in....." how about clairvoyant as the NTSB Accident Report was not released until 6 June 23 and you were banging on about it in March.....just about three months ahead of the NTSB Report.

I made this post on 14 March 23 and now you finally get around to replying and do so in the manner you have......you must spend a lot of time at other sites I suppose.


FH,

Seems a very harsh thing to say about a Pilot involved in an accident UNLESS you can provide some basis to feel free to say such a thing.

Exactly what do you base your comment upon.....as unless you have a provable source handy....you might find yourself liable for some repercussions.

What you describe might turn out to be the case.....but nothing seen in this Thread supports your allegation.

Care to elaborate on this?



So why the almost three. month delay in making a comment?

[JimEli]

ELTs statistically fail to activate in ~20% of accidents. HTAWS were mandated since 2014. It would be interesting to know what type of system was installed and if alerting was disabled.

The elephant in the room is WHY the pilot thought it necessary to check the maintenance log at such a critical point of the flight?

Possibly, due to the accumulated flight time for the day, the pilot feared he could/did overfly an inspection and may have been "check-boxing" it (see my explanation here (https://www.pprune.org/10871271-post130.html)). The FAA is willfully ignorant of how it causes accidents.


Just my opinion.

[[email protected]]

That's what it says in FH1100's linked report - the pilot was asked by his Ops to check the tech log as they were concerned they might have overflown or be about to overfly an inspection.

However, who but an idiot would choose to do that at night in skoshie weather at a deliberately selected cruise altitude below the highest obstacle en route? And not bother to put on his NVIS, rather leaving them on the seat beside him.

Either the whole tech log thing is a red herring to disguise the pressonitis actions of someone who shouldn't be in a cockpit or just the actions of someone who shouldn't be in a cockpit.

[casper64]

The elephant in the room is WHY the pilot thought it necessary to check the maintenance log at such a critical point of the flight?
.

Well… everybody knows that in todays world, where paperwork is paramount and more important than anything else, the helicopter will drop out of the sky instantly as soon as you are 1 minute over….(At least that is what you COULD start to believe… as long as the paperwork is fine all is good.

In the “old” days you flew and after the flight you made the numbers… and maybe said “oops” once in an while and that was about it. Now tell me which method was more safe? 🤔

[mnttech]

ELTs statistically fail to activate in ~20% of accidents. HTAWS were mandated since 2014. It would be interesting to know what type of system was installed and if alerting was disabled.
The elephant in the room is WHY the pilot thought it necessary to check the maintenance log at such a critical point of the flight?
.
Agree on the ELT, as covered above
Also agree on which HTAWS system was installed. As noted, it could have been the GNS 430 or 530 on board system. I wonder if it had annunciators, aural warnings. And if it was easy to identify which box (assuming it was a GNS) had the system activated.

As for the elephant, the other two points are minor compared to that one....

[212man]

He no longer works for the company but it's not clear whether he left or was asked to leave.
Well, he doesn't have a bad thing to say:

EC-135 HEMS (SPIFR) Base Aviation ManagerEC-135 HEMS (SPIFR) Base Aviation Manager
Med-Trans Corporation · Full-timeMed-Trans Corporation · Full-time Sep 2017 - Apr 2023 · 5 yrs 8 mosSep 2017 - Apr 2023 · 5 yrs 8 mos Andrews, NCAndrews, NC

Ended an amazing time with a fabulous company. I do not have a single negative thing to say about the phenomenal professionals with whom I worked day in and day out. I will truly miss the people, the mission, and the opportunities. Fair winds and following seas.



Ex 22 years USMC Lt Col, former AH-1W Sqn Commander, so clearly not new to the game, which makes it all the more inexplicable! He has more time for his paintings now, I guess.....