When will CX restart hiring DESO?

[CXKR2022]

Does anyone have any idea whether Cathay will be recruiting DESO anytime soon, especially for expats?
I would like to hear the opinion from the inside.

[pill]

No idea. I heard there's a big training backlog with SO's currently. And company biasing upgrades towards locals hoping they will hang around longer. Fairness not really a thing here. You won't win a raffle if you don't buy a ticket. We used to think of it as winning Lotto, now more like winning a meat tray.

[Brown Nose]

No idea. I heard there's a big training backlog with SO's currently. And company biasing upgrades towards locals hoping they will hang around longer. Fairness not really a thing here. You won't win a raffle if you don't buy a ticket. We used to think of it as winning Lotto, now more like winning a meat tray.


more like a turd full of maggots

[Oddball77]

Does anyone have any idea whether Cathay will be recruiting DESO anytime soon, especially for expats?
I would like to hear the opinion from the inside.

Rumour has it SO positions now are exclusively for locals, apparently it’s govt policy? Dunno how true?

[cxflog]

They still haven’t rehired the SO expats they tossed away in 2020, so I doubt they’ll be looking for DESO’s anytime soon.

[CXKR2022]

Rumour has it SO positions now are exclusively for locals, apparently it’s govt policy? Dunno how true?
Can you tell me where you got that rumor from bro?

[ZootBoot]

Can you tell me where you got that rumor from bro?

When Swire annihilated Dragonair, all of the pilots there lost their jobs. In response, HK Gov stopped issuing visas to expats as there were now qualified and very experienced people in HK who were unemployed. This extended to work visas not being renewed for some expat SOs who had been with CX for several years. There was mediation between gov and CX and the end result at this point in time is, SOs are hired locally as cadets and expats can only apply as DEFOs as that is where the airline has the skills shortage.

Unfortunately CX lost lots of its experienced FOs to the USA when McDonalds reopened its Trainee Manager program which offers better pay and conditions. Because they had experience working for clowns they were fast-tracked.

[whitsunday]

...the end result at this point in time is, SOs are hired locally as cadets and expats can only apply as DEFOs as that is where the airline has the skills shortage.

You forget our brothers and sisters in the North.
Apparently CX is now taking on Chinese Nationals for the icadet scheme.
Some thing that would have never happened back in the days.
Check out the new requirement.
Boom.

[Oasis]

What could possibly go wrong with putting a local and a mainland Chinese in the same cockpit.

How stupid can you be.

[whitsunday]

No. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. They can hire whoever they want however they want. It just tells you where the company is headed to, since we are touching on the topic of DESO.

[Kitsune]

Strange that when people come looking for work in our countries they are ‘immigrants’, but when we do the same we’re ‘expats’…

[LootedfromCPA]

Won't be surprised if the mainland cadets start bribing their way through the ICAO english tests.. those guys can get creative when it comes to cheating

[Farman Biplane]

When will CX restart hiring DESO?

Sometime after they finish hiring as many former CX DEC as they can from the last job ad.

Based on the package offered, that might not be too long!

[trigonometry]

Rumor also has it that CX is pushing for single pilot operation. With ChatGPT/AI on trend, I think it's possible in not so near future.

[JMock]

Won't be surprised if the mainland cadets start bribing their way through the ICAO english tests.. those guys can get creative when it comes to cheating

you obv haven’t come face to face with the number of CAD approved ICAO English raters here whose numbers can be counted on one hand not including the thumb and fvvk you finger… one Rottweiler, one v sharp seen it all, and one company staffed by ex KA.
lotsa luck with the bribes

[Rie]

you obv haven’t come face to face with the number of CAD approved ICAO English raters here whose numbers can be counted on one hand not including the thumb and fvvk you finger… one Rottweiler, one v sharp seen it all, and one company staffed by ex KA.
lotsa luck with the bribes
The now ex KA FO's company used to run a pretty good racket, had many of the HKA and UO guys going through there getting English levels well beyond their unintelligible speech.

[Klimax]

When Swire annihilated Dragonair, all of the pilots there lost their jobs. In response, HK Gov stopped issuing visas to expats as there were now qualified and very experienced people in HK who were unemployed. This extended to work visas not being renewed for some expat SOs who had been with CX for several years. There was mediation between gov and CX and the end result at this point in time is, SOs are hired locally as cadets and expats can only apply as DEFOs as that is where the airline has the skills shortage.

Unfortunately CX lost lots of its experienced FOs to the USA when McDonalds reopened its Trainee Manager program which offers better pay and conditions. Because they had experience working for clowns they were fast-tracked.

ARHAHAHAHHA... Lovely... Lovely....

[Sue Ridgepipe]

The now ex KA FO's company used to run a pretty good racket, had many of the HKA and UO guys going through there getting English levels well beyond their unintelligible speech.
Was that the same company that gave several native English speakers level 5 becasue the non-native speaking person doing the test couldn't understand them properly?

[anxiao]

Possibly the same outfit. I re-tested a New Zealand guy in HKG who had been given a 5 by some outfit there and he was obviously a 6 within ten seconds of talking to him.

I'm still not sure how old sexty sex is however :}

[Rie]

Was that the same company that gave several native English speakers level 5 becasue the non-native speaking person doing the test couldn't understand them properly?

Heard the rumours of the FO trying this on people. I’m under the impression it was more of a threat though. He would lose his accreditation pretty quickly if it was real.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Possibly the same outfit. I re-tested a New Zealand guy in HKG who had been given a 5 by some outfit there and he was obviously a 6 within ten seconds of talking to him.

I'm still not sure how old sexty sex is however :}

I remember the Ex-English competency facilitator, he gave me a four when joining, although my overseas licence (from an English speaking country was level 6).

He would tell cabin crew they failed and give them a card for an English course, which he got commission for every person that enrolled.

[LootedfromCPA]

I remember the Ex-English competency facilitator, he gave me a four when joining, although my overseas licence (from an English speaking country was level 6).

He would tell cabin crew they failed and give them a card for an English course, which he got commission for every person that enrolled.

So it is really about extracting more money from candidates who want a level 4 and above. Disgusting.

[JMock]

So it is really about extracting more money from candidates who want a level 4 and above. Disgusting.
that was many years ago
that dude was given the boot pronto when his scam was uncovered

[Bokpiel]

No idea. I heard there's a big training backlog with SO's currently. And company biasing upgrades towards locals hoping they will hang around longer.

If you are talking about FO upgrades then this has zero truth.

[G Merch]

If you are talking about FO upgrades then this has zero truth.
Agree. Total nonsense.

[Porterboy]

Are there any updates on potential DESO hiring? Have any of the laid off guys been recalled or does Cathay intend for SO positions to be filled solely by cadets going forward? I was reading this article (https://financialpost.com/globe-newswire/aeroguard-flight-training-center-signs-long-term-agreement-with-cathay-pacific-plans-to-train-hundreds-of-cadet-pilots-at-its-phoenix-arizona-campus) and it wrote that: AeroGuard will support Cathay Pacific with two training programs – one for those joining the airline with no prior flight experience, and another for pilots looking to convert their licenses to the Hong Kong standard. Sounds a lot like the DESO transition training course that I was supposed to start in Adelaide before Covid came in and upended everyone's lives, but maybe it's only for locals/mainlanders who did their training elsewhere? Feel free to PM me instead.

[cadet7000]

Are there any updates on potential DESO hiring? Have any of the laid off guys been recalled or does Cathay intend for SO positions to be filled solely by cadets going forward? I was reading this article (https://financialpost.com/globe-newswire/aeroguard-flight-training-center-signs-long-term-agreement-with-cathay-pacific-plans-to-train-hundreds-of-cadet-pilots-at-its-phoenix-arizona-campus) and it wrote that: Sounds a lot like the DESO transition training course that I was supposed to start in Adelaide before Covid came in and upended everyone's lives, but maybe it's only for locals/mainlanders who did their training elsewhere? Feel free to PM me instead.

Unlikely it will start anytime soon. A few advanced entry cadets taken on recently and currently doing their ATPLs (all permanent HK residents) but massive backlog of cadets waiting to start type ratings (those who finished in Adelaide over covid).

Priority is being given to rated DEFOs as they require less sim time and sectors to get on the line. DESO training footprint is fairly large so hiring unlikely to start until the backlog is cleared.

[Rie]

Are there any updates on potential DESO hiring? Have any of the laid off guys been recalled or does Cathay intend for SO positions to be filled solely by cadets going forward? I was reading this article (https://financialpost.com/globe-newswire/aeroguard-flight-training-center-signs-long-term-agreement-with-cathay-pacific-plans-to-train-hundreds-of-cadet-pilots-at-its-phoenix-arizona-campus) and it wrote that: Sounds a lot like the DESO transition training course that I was supposed to start in Adelaide before Covid came in and upended everyone's lives, but maybe it's only for locals/mainlanders who did their training elsewhere? Feel free to PM me instead.

In the 2-3 years you'd wait to get a call you could easily get a job in the States/Canada, gain hours, realise the SO life isn't exactly great and find yourself as a FO at Atlas, Delta, Spirit or anyone else. All on better money and Union protected positions... I know what I would be doing.

[Porterboy]

Unlikely it will start anytime soon. A few advanced entry cadets taken on recently and currently doing their ATPLs (all permanent HK residents) but massive backlog of cadets waiting to start type ratings (those who finished in Adelaide over covid).

Priority is being given to rated DEFOs as they require less sim time and sectors to get on the line. DESO training footprint is fairly large so hiring unlikely to start until the backlog is cleared.
Good to know, thanks. Makes sense that DEFOs would be the priority. How massive of a cadet backlog are we talking here? Is hiring unlikely within the next year then?

[magenta magnet]

In the 2-3 years you'd wait to get a call you could easily get a job in the States/Canada, gain hours, realise the SO life isn't exactly great and find yourself as a FO at Atlas, Delta, Spirit or anyone else. All on better money and Union protected positions... I know what I would be doing.

You'll need one of those magic green cards or work permits, can't just click on "work in America" not as easy as that.

[cadet7000]

Good to know, thanks. Makes sense that DEFOs would be the priority. How massive of a cadet backlog are we talking here? Is hiring unlikely within the next year then?

Not sure of exact numbers but would guess 100+

Unless training capacity increases significantly then I would say DESO hiring is pretty unlikely before 2024.

[Zi Peng]

Not sure of exact numbers but would guess 100+

Unless training capacity increases significantly then I would say DESO hiring is pretty unlikely before 2024.

Cadets finishing Adelaide 2+ yrs ago’ haven’t started yet, they prefer locals as they don’t leave. If you are young, single and have no other options by all means apply; get you right seat, 500 hrs and off you go that could take some time though. I am a FO2 one kid and this month we didn’t go negative on our balance as I flew a lot and my wife worked hard as well, no special expenses. Do your research .

[Climbpowder]

AFAIK a DESO friend of mine received an email expecting to be back after June.

[magenta magnet]

Cadets finishing Adelaide 2+ yrs ago’ haven’t started yet, they prefer locals as they don’t leave. If you are young, single and have no other options by all means apply; get you right seat, 500 hrs and off you go that could take some time though. I am a FO2 one kid and this month we didn’t go negative on our balance as I flew a lot and my wife worked hard as well, no special expenses. Do your research .

Sorry how on earth are you going negative each month on an FO2 salary + wife working?
I hate to say this, but you must be living well beyond your means..

If you could break down your expenses each month it would more fair to others thinking about Cathay on this forum, then they could see what others are spending each month. :8

[mngmt mole]

Magenta. There has been more than enough monthly expense breakdowns described on this website to clearly show you and anyone else interested that you will barely live a subsistence lifestyle working for CX. HK is effectively the worlds most expensive city. You can come to terms with the facts, or pretend you can defy gravity. Good luck.

[cxflog]

You'll need one of those magic green cards or work permits, can't just click on "work in America" not as easy as that.
E3 is available for Australians, O1 is available for everyone else. Can also get an immigration lawyer to get the EB-2 process going or throw the hat in the DV lottery. Not as hard as you make it sound :-)

[magenta magnet]

Magenta. There has been more than enough monthly expense breakdowns described on this website to clearly show you and anyone else interested that you will barely live a subsistence lifestyle working for CX. HK is effectively the worlds most expensive city. You can come to terms with the facts, or pretend you can defy gravity. Good luck.

Question answered thanks, "living well beyond your means"

We all want to earn a million dollars a month, fly 3 hours and live in a penthouse with a holiday yacht in the Bahamas... unfortunately Instagram isn't reality.
Almost every person, aviation or not just gets by right up until they retire, that is life. Yes it sucks but unless you start a successful company or live single as a neurosurgeon it is what it is.
Everybody wants to earn the big bucks but doesn't want to put in 20 years of hard work to get there to "start" earning good money.
We've all made mistakes with money, bought stupid things, invested in stupid ideas and p155ed it up way too many times.
Imagine if from 18 years old you invested diligently a few grand until you were 40-50, you'd be well off (but we never do it)

This family in question is living well beyond their means.

[rhoshamboe]

What point are you trying to make? You're just reinforcing that living within your means on the current COS leads to a lifestyle that many don't want. Sure you can live in 500 square feet with 2 kids, eat at the local hole in the wall and send your kids to the local Cantonese speaking school. No doubt for the local guys and gals it's still a reasonable gig but to bring the family from elsewhere it's a pretty big call. No doubt it will still work for some but at this point as an expat other options become preferable to many people. If you're willing to live in Hong Kong like that, more power to you, but don't get all judgy with people that would prefer not to nor with those that seek to outline the new reality for those considering the move.

[Zi Peng]

Sorry how on earth are you going negative each month on an FO2 salary + wife working?
I hate to say this, but you must be living well beyond your means..

If you could break down your expenses each month it would more fair to others thinking about Cathay on this forum, then they could see what others are spending each month. :8

Quick look at your posts and the threads you wrote in and it is quite clear you are some kind of management troll.

I said almost went negative, you will have basic salary only months due lack of flying, there will be a cancelled pattern or the occasional flu or the exceptional expense and then it will happen.
Covid costed me 85000 hkd in lost flying pay.
Can you plan your life ? Not easy to say the least.
It can be done, of course but leaving in a small flat you don’t like in an are you don’t like either, not going out much, eating local and so on and don’t have that second kid.
Western SOs ? Ideally young and single, come here and like I said get your rating, the hours you need and get out.
How long will that take ? I guess nobody knows at the moment.

[magenta magnet]

Quick look at your posts and the threads you wrote in and it is quite clear you are some kind of management troll.

I said almost went negative, you will have basic salary only months due lack of flying, there will be a cancelled pattern or the occasional flu or the exceptional expense and then it will happen.
Covid costed me 85000 hkd in lost flying pay.
Can you plan your life ? Not easy to say the least.
It can be done, of course but leaving in a small flat you don’t like in an are you don’t like either, not going out much, eating local and so on and don’t have that second kid.
Western SOs ? Ideally young and single, come here and like I said get your rating, the hours you need and get out.
How long will that take ? I guess nobody knows at the moment.


I have nothing to do with management. I am making a simple observation that you are living well beyond your means. My wife and I have one child & live perfectly fine, sure we don't have a fleet of private cars and rolex watches but we don't live in the Instagram world. My child goes to a "foreign private school" and no not Harrow. We both live in a nice large-ish apartment and don't eat out of the dustbin. You cannot expect to live in a 5000 sqft2 apartment with a rooftop garden, a helper, with a stay at home wife who photographs herself 24/7 and lives her life on botox and crossfit. Maybe wait till you become a captain then she can venture down that path. This is HK, one of the most expensive cities in the world, but you choose where you want to live and how you want to live.

My wife and I both save "enough" each month, sure we don't have fancy overseas holidays in Bora Bora every single year and go to SKYE every weekend, but come on get real!

If you live modestly, save diligently and wait your turn until you climb the ladder to become a captain then you will have more than enough for retirement. If you try keep up with the Joneses you will fail and be broke.

[Babyjet_dododo]

I have nothing to do with management. I am making a simple observation that you are living well beyond your means. My wife and I have one child & live perfectly fine, sure we don't have a fleet of private cars and rolex watches but we don't live in the Instagram world. My child goes to a "foreign private school" and no not Harrow. We both live in a nice large-ish apartment and don't eat out of the dustbin. You cannot expect to live in a 5000 sqft2 apartment with a rooftop garden, a helper, with a stay at home wife who photographs herself 24/7 and lives her life on botox and crossfit. Maybe wait till you become a captain then she can venture down that path. This is HK, one of the most expensive cities in the world, but you choose where you want to live and how you want to live.

My wife and I both save "enough" each month, sure we don't have fancy overseas holidays in Bora Bora every single year and go to SKYE every weekend, but come on get real!

If you live modestly, save diligently and wait your turn until you climb the ladder to become a captain then you will have more than enough for retirement. If you try keep up with the Joneses you will fail and be broke.

”Live Modestly, save diligently” you sound like you moved states to live the same way you were back in your home country.

The pilots @ CX did not move to Hong Kong to live like that. They moved to make sure that when they get back to their home country and not living off government welfare or hand to mouth.

The reason pilots @ CX moved to HK is to enjoy life, give their children a decent education and to travel and save for retirement. Something CX swine management has taken away.

The front line staff at CX are not dumber than management, they moved on as CX is no long a VIABLE option to enjoy life. Hence the exodus.

Hong Kong is no longer a lovable or liveable city, it’s a use and abuse city for expats. If you can’t save and still enjoy life’s luxuries then why would anyone want to live here.

[RAT Management]

”Live Modestly, save diligently” you sound like you moved states to live the same way you were back in your home country.

The pilots @ CX did not move to Hong Kong to live like that. They moved to make sure that when they get back to their home country and not living off government welfare or hand to mouth.

The reason pilots @ CX moved to HK is to enjoy life, give their children a decent education and to travel and save for retirement. Something CX swine management has taken away.

The front line staff at CX are not dumber than management, they moved on as CX is no long a VIABLE option to enjoy life. Hence the exodus.

Hong Kong is no longer a lovable or liveable city, it’s a use and abuse city for expats. If you can’t save and still enjoy life’s luxuries then why would anyone want to live here.

How much has changed? It's simple. The flight deck conversation now usually involves the question of what's your long term plan? I was never asked that question when I joined, nor did I have a plan other than CX till the end. It Was that simple! Most people that joined knew this was it and everyone had a similar plan of staying in Hong Kong for a reasonable time until a base was the best alternative for family needs etc. But now everyone I'm flying with has a plan to leave unless your a Hong Kong local or your committed to Hong Kong for one reason or another. I'm afraid it's just not the same and I don't hold much hope for any improvements in the future.

Oh, and don't think the attacks on pay and conditions are over. I heard the other day from the CP himself that the hour threshold will be raised again soon. Meaning a further pay cut and a second rise in threshold hours within 6 months.

Everyone better get used to living on the base rate. Because you can see where the target hours are heading.

[BuzzBox]

I have nothing to do with management. I am making a simple observation that you are living well beyond your means.

What a load of hyperbolic nonsense. The notion that CX pilots today live in 5,000 sq.ft apartments, possess fleets of private cars and collections of Rolexes, etc, is pure fantasy. Pilots who joined CX 30 years ago didn’t enjoy such luxuries during their careers, so how could anyone do it today?

[Zi Peng]

We live in a small rented apartment, we had to move to a smaller one due cos18. Never had a car in HK and always had a Casio watch. Recently had our first holiday, 5 days in cheap Thailand, after 4 years due covid. My wife has two jobs. We don't use instagram. Our social life come from sports so tend to hang out with normal people. My son doesn't go to Harrow he's not rich or good enough, he's good at sports so we haven't paid for that for years.
So you definitely don't know much of what you are talking about, you might want to ask the 777 guys flying regional almost the threshold, the 74 with the last threshold raise have lost 5k a month (FOs).
Like I wrote above it can be done but it is not enjoyable or long term if you join now as a non local SO, that is what this thread is about, DESO which generally I wouldn't encourage at the moment.

As for STW I guess he doesn't deserve a comment, he keeps coming back to this forum as much as he doesn't like it just to stir the ****.

[Climbpowder]

We live in a small rented apartment, we had to move to a smaller one due cos18. Never had a car in HK and always had a Casio watch. Recently had our first holiday, 5 days in cheap Thailand, after 4 years due covid. My wife has two jobs. We don't use instagram. Our social life come from sports so tend to hang out with normal people. My son doesn't go to Harrow he's not rich or good enough, he's good at sports so we haven't paid for that for years.
So you definitely don't know much of what you are talking about, you might want to ask the 777 guys flying regional almost the threshold, the 74 with the last threshold raise have lost 5k a month (FOs).
Like I wrote above it can be done but it is not enjoyable or long term if you join now as a non local SO, that is what this thread is about, DESO which generally I wouldn't encourage at the moment.

As for STW I guess he doesn't deserve a comment, he keeps coming back to this forum as much as he doesn't like it just to stir the ****.

So why are you still there living in such miserable conditions?

[Porterboy]

so tend to hang out with normal people.
Aw that sounds horrible!!

[nicoli]

I really apologise for the thread drift again,

But I’m always astonished that someone on a F02 salary can’t make it specially with a partner working …

I guess the HKE, HKA, GBA pilots - expat cabin crew should give counselling seminar. Specially when the median salary is 20 000$ in HK

[Sam Ting Wong]

It's more about the relative rather than the absolute numbers. Decreasing income, lower standard of living, smaller flats, lower saving rate, longer time to upgrade etc compared to before. In combination with previous sacrifices that come with moving abroad this is understandibly extremely frustrating. However, albeit it might look like it, it is actually not the sole responsibility or doing of one company. All this anger and fury focused at a single airline is ridiculous, especially if you look at the wages almost anywhere else. This is so much bigger. There is no right to get what we foolishly envisioned. Nobody promised us anything, it was rather wishful thinking. Face it, a lot of us made the wrong bet.

We live in a new world. Forget the past, Being a pilot is a middle income job now in most regions, for good. The expat of the future will be from lower income regions, bar the odd misguided and pityful offspring of one of us.The required level of education and language skills will be lowered further. Combined, this will open up new supply sources for airlines and keep wages low. Against current belief this trend will not result in higher accidents, technology and automation will prevent it, easily. Any job involving operating a machine will become more or less obsolete. Piloting will turn into a monitoring task, we will get near 100 % automation. SO's starting in Adelaide today might never "fly" an aircraft, even after upgrade. I think we will have a disrupting "Tesla/Chat GPT" moment in aviation, soon.

[Stallone]

It's all about the relative change rather than the absolute numbers. Decreasing income, lower standard of living, smaller flats, lower saving rate, longer time to upgrade etc in combination with previous sacrifices that come with moving abroad. This is understandibly extremely frustrating. The problem in here however is the wrong focus of many. This is not the responsibility or doing of one company, this is so much bigger. All this anger and fury against one airline is ridiculous. There is no right to get what we foolishly envisioned of getting out of this career. Face it, we made the wrong bet.

We live in a new world. Forget the past, Being a pilot is a blue collar job now in most regions, for good. The expat of the future will be from lower income regions, bar the odd misguided and pityful offspring of one of us.The level of education of future pilots will be lower as well and combined this will open up new supply sources for airlines and keep wages low. Against current belief this trend will not result in higher accidents, technology and automation will prevent it, easily. Any job involving operating a machine will become more or less obsolete. Piloting will turn into a monitoring task, we will get near 100 % automation. SO's starting in Adelaide today might never "fly" an aircraft, even after upgrade. I think we will have a disrupting "Tesla/Chat GPT" moment in aviation, soon.

hard truths

[magenta magnet]

albeit true... in about 50 years maybe

there is currently no Airbus or Boeing aircraft in development that is fully automated or even (like a tesla) if an aircraft was being designed currently I'd say sure 5-10 years before rollout and testing, then another few years of that. New aircraft take decades to design, build, test etc.

So the current "Adelaide" gang, they will most likely retire in the left seat decades from now having flown plenty..

The only thing Boeing, Airbus and the likes are currently obsessed with is the woke agenda and saving emissions by going as green as they can, automation is way down the line.

With regards to salaries, they will return to previous levels in a few years time, China has been incredibly slow to get away from Covid so their financial damage is immense, once that has sorted out then things will again pick up. The Chinese (that is HK included) are painfully paranoid about Covid so don't hold your breath in 1-2 years. This will take a long time to get all those pax and cargo numbers back up but it will happen, their hands are tied from their own paranoia.. just be patient. Or maybe they'll just sell Cathay to China Airlines and we'll all get new uniforms and a new paint scheme

[main_dog]

Nope, STW is closer to the truth. “Piloting” is a thing of the past, the last airliner we operate that you actually need to fly occasionally is the 747. Much less skill is now involved, much less previous experience, everything is increasingly automated.

Consequently the bar for entry is lowered, almost anyone can be a pilot. This translates into the profession becoming a middle-paying supervisory job.

Next on the menu (Airbus are already on it), single-pilot operations, initially in cruise, with a resulting excess in aircrew and further lowering of wages.

Full automation is actually viable today; we are living on borrowed time thanks to the inherent conservatism of regulators and the industry, and perhaps some lingering public skepticism (which will be less prevalent in the younger generations anyway as they grow up with self-driving transportation).

Wouldn’t want be be starting out in this job right now. Doubt you’d see your career out, and in any case you would be trapped in a never-ending downward spiral, but starting from much further down said spiral.

[magenta magnet]

Nope, STW is closer to the truth. “Piloting” is a thing of the past, the last airliner we operate that you actually need to fly occasionally is the 747. Much less skill is now involved, much less previous experience, everything is increasingly automated.

Consequently the bar for entry is lowered, almost anyone can be a pilot. This translates into the profession becoming a middle-paying supervisory job.

Next on the menu (Airbus are already on it), single-pilot operations, initially in cruise, with a resulting excess in aircrew and further lowering of wages.

Full automation is actually viable today; we are living on borrowed time thanks to the inherent conservatism of regulators and the industry, and perhaps some lingering public skepticism (which will be less prevalent in the younger generations anyway as they grow up with self-driving transportation).

Wouldn’t want be be starting out in this job right now. Doubt you’d see your career out, and in any case you would be trapped in a never-ending downward spiral, but starting from much further down said spiral.

Any info on these new wonder weapons from Boeing or Airbus? I'd like to have a look at what is coming in a few years....

[VforVENDETTA]

Reduction of compensation for pilots has had a real effect on safety margins of the airlines who have implemented it such as Emirates & cathay.

Emirates did it first a few years before cathay. Since then they've "crashed" a 777 attempting to land/go-around and almost crashed another 777 in initial takeoff phase coming as close as a couple of hundred feet from hitting buildings in DXB, their home base. Both events due to ridiculously amateurish mistakes.

Cathay has recently been having a spat of hard landings on the 747 fleet. They've had a few south Asian newhires who after having trouble in training have been found to have fake logbooks with imaginary hours in them. I remember back when they wouldn't sign you off line training unless you achieved the standard of "1500 smooth" landings consistently.

We Know how secretive both of these airlines are so be sure there's more that's being covered up.

Coincidence? No, i think cause & effect.

There's a limit on how low any bar can be lowered, before its gone too far. I'd argue it's already been lowered too far and we're all in for news of a crash or two from either or both these airlines.

On subject of single pilot and/or pilot-less airliners, Yes the militaries are already flying pilot-less aircraft. However there are no operational true pilotless aircraft as of yet. In prototype/testing phase yes, but what's operational all have a pilot operating them from the ground with no passengers onboard. Not even a single military in the world is yet taking that risk. AND... as soon as there's anything but good weather they're grounded. No operating around thunderstorms, typhoons, heavy rain, strong winds etc. like we do now. I'd like to see an airline fly with that set of operational limitations and make money.

I've yet to hear one passenger telling me they'd get on a pilot-less or for that matter "single pilot in cruise" flight. Not old ones, not young ones either. We are not anywhere near that era yet.

Worse yet if you leave the flight deck to one single pilot even just in cruise, he/she better be very good at the job, skills, experience, nerves etc. We've all seen automation fail miserably at the worst possible moments and we've had to take over manually right in the middle of the **** hitting the fan.

When you pay less, you get less. This is true about everything including pilots. They want to operate single pilot flights with the quality of pilots they're getting now? I have to laugh. They can't even get enough of those at Cathay to ramp up operation past 25% of pre-covid as it is. Emirates can't get enough pilots either or they wouldn't be on a poaching campaign on location in hk to poach directly and overtly from Cathay.

So has this gamble or strategy depending on who you ask, paid off so far? You be the judge. I'm personally watching with popcorn and laughing my ass off. These clown dirtbag outfits are intent on finding out how low is too low by finding out the hard way. They're showing no sign of stopping as of yet.

[LootedfromCPA]

I'd say we are really not too far from getting replaced. The last FON issued by our company mentioned something about SOs needing to "practice" a depressurization scenario while alone in the cockpit. If that's not already a huge red flag then I'm not sure what will be.

[BuzzBox]

I'd say we are really not too far from getting replaced. The last FON issued by our company mentioned something about SOs needing to "practice" a depressurization scenario while alone in the cockpit. If that's not already a huge red flag then I'm not sure what will be.

That's not something new; it comes up from time to time during the normal cycle of simulator events. SOs are the 'weakest link' in terms of experience, so it's hardly unusual their competence would be assessed to make sure they are able to perform a critical manoeuvre by themselves, in case the other pilot is away from the cockpit for some reason.