Pilot Officer Denis Wissler

[Ken Scott]

I am currently researching the brief life of PO Denis Wissler - joined the RAF on 10 Jul 39, flew Hurricanes with 85 and 17 Sqns during the Battles of France and Britain, KIA on 11 Nov 40. He wrote a diary that covered 1 Jan 40 until his death but there is not much documented evidence other than that. The ORB for 85 Sqn was destroyed during the retreat in France and although it was rewritten afterwards it’s rather short of detail. The records for his EFT at No 12 E&RFTS Prestwick were destroyed in a fire in Feb 41. His logbook was most likely burnt when the Air Ministry had a clear out in 1960 ( they had a mile of shelving with the logbooks of all the aircrew killed in WW2 and apart from those deemed of historic value and those claimed by the families, the rest were thrown in an incinerator).

Unless by some chance his logbook survived and someone knows it’s whereabouts?

According to his service record after EFT he did his Service Discipline course at 9FTS Hullavington, previously those on Short Service commissions did it at Uxbridge and once the war started various ITWs were established at places like Hastings. Presumably this was a very short term measure and a bit unusual as I’ve not seen any other references to doing it at an FTS? He then went to 15 FTS at Lossiemouth to do his basic and advanced training. Does anyone know anything about this unusual training?

His diary has been much quoted in books and the BBC series ‘Finest Hour’ since it was donated to the IWM by his former fiancé in 1990 but apart from it and her testimony there is not a great deal of information on him. Does anyone have anything that would help? It doesn’t help that that generation didn’t talk much about their experiences, I have tracked down a number of relatives of his former colleagues, who have all passed away now, but they have very little to add. The only one of his colleagues who is still alive is John Hemingway who was on 85 Sqn with him but as he’s 103 and suffering from dementia it’s not possible to talk to him. I have not been able to trace any relatives of Harold ‘Birdy’ Bird-Wilson who was a good friend of Denis on 17 Sqn, does anyone have a contact?

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Quite by chance just a minute ago I was looking for antiquarian British Bird Books on a well known internet auction site and this (newly listed) popped up.
Unfortunately it is in the States and they want about £70 for it. Lor' knows what the postage would be........ If interested send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll supply the link. It appears not to have any provenance as such. Buyer Beware I would think.H BIRD-WILSON / Copyprint photo of Hurricane with six pilots standing WWII
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x1159/s_l1600_060af833dd2634d340946947f7bf8a22ecc9fc9c.jpg

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Further my last I've found the same image on this website:https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/RAF-17Sqn-YB/pages/Hawker-Hurricane-I-RAF-17Sqn-YBW-Bird-Wilson-P3978-Debdeb-England-July-1940-03.html

More 17 Squadron images on the above link.

Found this image below on Battle of Britain Monument London website.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/752x696/screenshot_2023_02_12_at_22_31_24_battle_of_britain_london_m onument_p_o_d_h_wissler_de867c53925da7c0a487546b63066b3352e4 5e2f.png

[Ken Scott]

Thanks, OUAQUKGF Ops , I have all those photos already, most of them via Denis’s former fiancé. She was a WAAF on duty in the Sector Ops Room and heard him shot down, she only died in 2021 at 101.

[DonClark]

Ken Scott's Post above:
"His logbook was most likely burnt when the Air Ministry had a clear out in 1960 ( they had a mile of shelving with the logbooks of all the aircrew killed in WW2 and apart from those deemed of historic value and those claimed by the families, the rest were thrown in an incinerator)."

There is rather more to the story of WW 2 RAF Flying Log Books. Whether the remaining holdings of 1960 were indeed incinerated or, more likely, pulped, the actual RAF Museum Log Books document does not record. However, that took place only after not one but two serious efforts (in 1946 and in 1960) to return Flying Log Books to aircrew survivors or the families of those lost. The RAF holdings (6500 feet) represented something well over 100,000 Log Books (that is, of 100,000 or more aircrew - about 40% of RAF aircrew).

War-time and post-war retention and return practice for both surviving ex-aircrew and casualties has been documented at length in Ch 17 of RAF World War II Operational and Flying Accident Casualty Files in the National Archives: Exploring the Contents by Mary Hudson (Air World/Pen & Sword 2020) as follows:
"Among the official documents issued to the casualty which
were set aside by the Effects Officer to be retained by the RAF
were Flying Log Books (RAF Forms 414 and 1767).

Before the Second World War flying log books of deceased
officers and airmen were forwarded to next of kin when no
longer required for official purposes such as investigations
into aircraft accidents. However, when the war started this
practice was discontinued for the 'duration of hostilities'.
The flying log books of missing or deceased aircrew were
instead to be sent from home units to the RAF Central
Depository at Colnbrook where they were recorded and kept
in safe custody. Overseas units sent the flying log book to
their command headquarters for safe-keeping. A similar
practice was observed for the flying log books of personnel
who were declared to be prisoners of war.

In January 1946 authority was given by the Air Ministry
for the release of the Flying Log Books of air crew who had
either been discharged or released from the service, who had
died, or who [had] been withdrawn from air crew duties. Next of
kin of deceased air crew were invited to apply for the Flying
Log Book through newspaper advertisements and by radio
announcements. Following this some next of kin wrote to the
Casualty Branch about the Flying Log Books of their relatives
and these letters, and the responses to them, were
placed on the on the relevant Casualty Files. Unclaimed
Flying Log Books were kept at the RAF Central Depository
until 1960 when it was again publically [sic] advertised that
Flying Log Books still held by the RAF could be claimed by
air crew or, where deceased, their next-of-kin.

Of those still left unclaimed after this second announcement
a small number were preserved as examples and are now held at the
National Archives in the AIR 4 Series. The remainder were
destroyed in late 1960."The book is a comprehensive guide to the RAF & MRES etc practices and recording of RAF casualties.
Available in print and ebook form via eg Book Depository or new & used at Bookfinder - or check national libraries/interlibrary loan in your country.

Occasional criticism about destruction of remaining Log Books might be tempered by awareness of these repeated, extensive, and international efforts...

Apart from those in private hands, RAF Flying Logbooks are held and reasonably accessible in the Imperial War Museum, the RAF Museum, and digitally by the International Bomber Command Centre. Other collections though notionally public are quite restricted in access.

[Ken Scott]

An interesting summary, thank you. I was aware that the Air Ministry had publicised this but whether Denis’s mother (his surviving NOK in 1960) heard about it I do not know. She might not have wanted a reminder of her only son’s death and his fiancé who might have have been interested (she later donated his diary to the IWM) was not his NOK as they were never married. As he only became ‘famous’ after that donation, 30 years after his logbook was destroyed (whether by incineration or by being pulped) his logbook was unlikely to have made the cut and been saved.

A great pity as he mentions in his diary the effort he went to to get it correct whilst in training (something most pilots can sympathize with!) and today we would probably regard the logbook of a veteran of France and the BoB as having a little more importance.

[OH6 PILOT]

Greetings Fellow History Students,

I am a plane and ship model builder in the US. I plan to build 1/48 models of the plane Denis Wissler flew on 11/11/40 and the 109s that probably shot down both him and the other Sqdn 17 Hurricane that day (these 2 the only RAF KIA on that day). BTW both 109 pilots later KIA in Russia. I can share that info with any of you if you have an interest.

Does anyone on this thread know the plane side code letter for the plane he flew? I am guessing the few photos of him cannot be trusted for that info. Said info might be in his diary but I cannot figure out how to get in to that limited portion of it. I have the side code for the other Hurricane and plan to build that one also.

I am a retired US Army helicopter pilot and have been an admirer of the BOB RAF for 60+ years. I hope someone over there can help me.

Regards,

OH6 PILOT//Fred Branyan