Normalisation of deviance in QF IR.

[Thebigredrat]

The normalisation of deviance, Qantas pilots industrial relations.

Professor Diane Vaughan coined the term, the normalisation of deviance, after studying the decisions made in the lead up to the Challenger space shuttle accident. Many of you would be familiar with the term and its implications in operating aircraft safely. (If not, look it up it is excellent reading. See links below) We have discussed it in Human factors before. It is a practice to be guarded against.

The normalisation of deviance can be defined as ‘the gradual process through which unacceptable practice or standards become acceptable. As the deviant behaviour is repeated without catastrophic results, it becomes the social norm for the organisation.'

I ask you, in regards to our EBA/EA/contract/agreements have we both individually and collectively undertaken a gradual process through which unacceptable industrial practice or standards have become acceptable? Has our deviant behaviour which has been repeated throughout the years without catastrophic industrial results, allowed these practices to become the industrial norm at our company.

Now it would seem as happened with safety at NASA during lead up to the Challenger launch our industrial normalisation of deviance has played a part in an undesired outcome.

What do I mean? What deviant work practices have been normalised? We arrive early at base, enter the terminal in slip ports early. Read Notams & flight plans prior to sign on. Extend, read SMS, answer the phone on days off, put our hands up to crew flights, help out in any number of ways from the start to finish of a trip. Many of these practices go beyond the scope of our contracts. This has not happened overnight, many of these practices have been passed down from rank to rank at this company for years.

The result from an operational perspective is aircraft get away on time, things get done. Objectives are achieved. That fits our personality types. Pilots are task-focused professionals that take our passengers from A-B sometimes C, safely, efficiently, legally and comfortably. We are experts in papering over the cracks.

However where has this deviant behaviour gotten us industrially? It would seem because of the decades' long process to get to this point that this deviant behaviour is expected by our employer. This is the insidious nature of the process. It is so normal, so ingrained in the culture of organisation that many smarter people than I would argue that to follow our contract as written would represent industrial action! Does this not prove the point?

Perhaps if such practices were recognised or the industrial interactions between the company and its pilots not so toxic this would not have come to show its ugly head at this time and the apparent consequences of this deviance would have been hidden for more time. There would be no need for ultimatums, threats. Cordial, mutually respectful negotiations could take place even if they are difficult and hard-fought. Value instead of lip service would be placed on the intangibles, these off balance sheet acts. Pilots would continue to do what we are happiest doing, that is flying.

Several pilots over the years have voiced that we are our own worst enemies, perhaps they are right. Most I would argue had faith in our management and that our deviance under the guise of professionalism was valued. Would be acknowledged and accounted for. Thinking that surely management knows. Alas, it would seem that while current management happily embraces the benefits of our deviance they don't see, don't want to see, refuse to see, don't care. Or just believe that is how it has always been and will remain, it is our culture. It is important to note that this state of affairs is not all management's doing, it is a byproduct of our culture.

Perhaps at this juncture, we should ask ourselves a question. Should we be practicing normalised deviance where it is identified in any sphere?

What is a possible solution? Perhaps we should take our lead from Professor Vaughn who states that the best solution for the normalisation of deviance pertaining to safety is, “being clear about standards and rewarding whistle blowers. Also, create a culture that is team-based such that each person would feel like they were letting their colleagues down if they were to break the rules. Finally, the importance of a top-down approach to safety cannot be overstated. If the employees see executives breaking rules, they will feel it is normal in the company's culture. Normalisation of deviance is easier to prevent than to correct.”

The pilot body strives to do the above in our operational and safety practices along with the company. Is there any risk that by practicing deviance in one sphere that we would be more likely to accept deviance in another?

Perhaps from an industrial standpoint the solution for us could be:

Being clear about standards. Also create a culture that is team based such that a person would feel like they were letting their colleagues down if they were to deviate. Finally, the importance of a top down approach to industrial matters cannot be overstated. AIPA and Captains are needed to set the standard industrially.

Would it be easy to change our culture? Certainly not, it has taken decades to get to where we are and it would take time to change. Progress may be slow. Would you feel uncomfortable in this process? Undoubtedly, cultural change is difficult.Doing things you feel are counterculture raises red flags in our brains. Baby steps are the most likely prescription.

If we set forth to readjust our culture, what will happen? Will the sun still rise tomorrow? Yes.(pun intended) Would the airline stop? No. Would there be issues? Undoubtedly. Would the paper come off the walls? Most likely. Would our management be unhappy, angry even. Yes, it is not pleasant to see cracks or chasms appear seemingly everywhere. Would it serve to highlight what we do day to day, in the company's interest, tokeep things runningsmoothly? I think it would after their understandable anger passed. Change is not easy for either party. Would it change the relationship with management, yes. For the better? Perhaps after the anger passes (It could take a long time to pass). How long would it take? I'm not sure. It has taken decades to get here. Should we continue to be professional? Of course.

I hate the thought of inconveniencing passengers if it comes to that. (I think we all do) But what are the options? Continue this route of non compliance? Could the company honestly protest if we were to stop? The company would never and nor should they ever accept a normalisation of deviance if it is identified operationally, so why should the very people they expect to guard against normalising deviance operationally on one hand be expected to normalise contractual deviance on the other?

What form would these aforementioned baby steps take in order to change our culture? We would need to embrace the just culture that Qantas demands. A need to report more than ever.Identify issues and report them. Does paperingover the cracks to get the job done not ultimately weaken the structure to a point where more than just cracks will appear? The company encourages reporting if not requiring it, then it is our duty to do so. If reading 80 pages of NOTAMs makes you late report it. If it takes thirty minutes to get through security and you're late, report it. If you are fatigued, report it. If you require controlled rest, report it. The company runs an FRMS based on data, then provide it to them. The methods of reporting are rubbish, well report that too. Not getting answers to your reports, ask why not. Reported the same thing twenty times, keep reporting. Too busy is not an excuse, include AIPA in important correspondence. Is filling out paperwork tedious? You bet it is. Is continuing on the current industrial trajectory worse? Yes. Be professional and objective in your reporting, not emotive.

So next time you walk into the terminal early or go to open your iPad in the transport to wade through a sea of NOTAMs, take a pause, recognise what you are about to do, breathe and then think about whether the step you're about to take is reenforcing a deviant culture that has contributed to the current industrial position of hostility we find ourselves in. If you see others being deviant, perhaps as you would in an operational case RAISE it.

Perhaps this is a way that a better understanding between management and its pilots can garner a more mutually respectful industrial relations position in the future. With a better understanding about what each side brings to the table, in spite of a potentially long period of pain it will take to get there.

Thoughts? This likely applies equally to Virgin/JQ etc.


The Challenger Launch Decision: Risky Technology, Culture, and Deviance at NASA

[BuzzBox]

Well said. I'd also point out that this is not just a problem at QF, but across the entire airline industry.

[Superman1]

Office staff and those in most industry’s come in at 8am instead of 9am and many would leave well after 5 or 6pm…. Some take calls/meetings at 8pm or later it’s the same at every company…Its never a 38 hour week for the so called ‘9 to 5’ers’ you compare yourself
to, and most management staff will work 60+…..Unlike pilots they don’t get overtime or paid the extra few hours or get any time in lieu so count yourself lucky…If you want to get ahead and maintain a good job, working ‘to the rule’ won’t get you far in a competitive world, it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed and if you want it more than the next guy. It’s called work ethic, some have it some don’t…..Whatever industry, the ones who count time and want every dollar accounted for are replaced by those who have a better attitude and work ethic. The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

[havick]

Office staff and those in most industry’s come in at 8am instead of 9am and many would leave well after 5 or 6pm…. Some take calls/meetings at 8pm or later it’s the same at every company…Its never a 38 hour week for the so called ‘9 to 5’ers’ you compare yourself
to, and most management staff will work 60+…..Unlike pilots they don’t get overtime or paid the extra few hours or get any time in lieu so count yourself lucky…If you want to get ahead and maintain a good job, working ‘to the rule’ won’t get you far in a competitive world, it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed and if you want it more than the next guy. It’s called work ethic, some have it some don’t…..Whatever industry, the ones who count time and want every dollar accounted for are replaced by those who have a better attitude and work ethic. The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

Following the contract in the US has given rise to some pretty good gains for a lot of legacy carrier's pilot groups. Just take a look at the latest Delta contract.

[DropYourSocks]

Office staff and those in most industry’s come in at 8am instead of 9am and many would leave well after 5 or 6pm…. Some take calls/meetings at 8pm or later it’s the same at every company…Its never a 38 hour week for the so called ‘9 to 5’ers’ you compare yourself
to, and most management staff will work 60+…..Unlike pilots they don’t get overtime or paid the extra few hours or get any time in lieu so count yourself lucky…If you want to get ahead and maintain a good job, working ‘to the rule’ won’t get you far in a competitive world, it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed and if you want it more than the next guy. It’s called work ethic, some have it some don’t…..Whatever industry, the ones who count time and want every dollar accounted for are replaced by those who have a better attitude and work ethic. The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

It's interesting that your immediate response to someone trying to improve their lot in life is to attack. You do this by suggesting to the OP that their lot in life is already too good, and also by suggesting they lack character and work ethic. I wonder if you're management trying to "manage expectations", or if you've just been abused by the status quo for too long.

For Australian pilots that haven't worked in the US, it's hard to fathom just what exactly is the difference between QF and Delta. Well for anyone who has a spare 6 minutes, these are the thoughts from a Delta pilot regarding their new contract. If you don't have 6 minutes, here's the tldr: you can have good quality of life and still earn reasonable money.

https://pilotmathtreasurebath.com/2023/01/30/pay-quality-of-life-why-pick-just-one/amp/

[Colonel_Klink]

Office staff and those in most industry’s come in at 8am instead of 9am and many would leave well after 5 or 6pm…. Some take calls/meetings at 8pm or later it’s the same at every company…Its never a 38 hour week for the so called ‘9 to 5’ers’ you compare yourself
to, and most management staff will work 60+…..Unlike pilots they don’t get overtime or paid the extra few hours or get any time in lieu so count yourself lucky…If you want to get ahead and maintain a good job, working ‘to the rule’ won’t get you far in a competitive world, it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed and if you want it more than the next guy. It’s called work ethic, some have it some don’t…..Whatever industry, the ones who count time and want every dollar accounted for are replaced by those who have a better attitude and work ethic. The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

And with an attitude like that is it any wonder why Australian employee wage growth has been some of the lowest anywhere in the OECD over the last few decades.

What’s also apparent to me is that since the pandemic, those that are ‘office workers’ have significantly more flexibility in when and how they work, and things like Working From Home give that employee considerable benefits to their personal lives.

[C441]

Perhaps if such practices were recognised or the industrial interactions between the company and its pilots not so toxic this would not have come to show its ugly head at this time and the apparent consequences of this deviance would have been hidden for more time. There would be no need for ultimatums, threats.
Could not agree more. And so it (usually) was until the CEO before last set the adversarial IR ball rolling and the current CEO hit the ball with a huge bat.

Professor Diane Vaughan coined the term, the normalisation of deviance, after studying the decisions made in the lead up to the Challenger space shuttle accident.
I can highly recommend her book on the event.
The Challenger Launch Decision (https://booko.com.au/w/1668277/The-Challenger-Launch-Decision_by_Diane-Vaughan)

[Servo]

Office staff and those in most industry’s come in at 8am instead of 9am and many would leave well after 5 or 6pm…. Some take calls/meetings at 8pm or later it’s the same at every company…Its never a 38 hour week for the so called ‘9 to 5’ers’ you compare yourself
to, and most management staff will work 60+…..Unlike pilots they don’t get overtime or paid the extra few hours or get any time in lieu so count yourself lucky…If you want to get ahead and maintain a good job, working ‘to the rule’ won’t get you far in a competitive world, it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed and if you want it more than the next guy. It’s called work ethic, some have it some don’t…..Whatever industry, the ones who count time and want every dollar accounted for are replaced by those who have a better attitude and work ethic. The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

Normalised deviance right there.

[non_state_actor]

The company encourages reporting if not requiring it, then it is our duty to do so. If reading 80 pages of NOTAMs makes you late report it. If it takes thirty minutes to get through security and you're late, report it. If you are fatigued, report it. If you require controlled rest, report it. The company runs an FRMS based on data, then provide it to them. The methods of reporting are rubbish, well report that too. Not getting answers to your reports, ask why not. Reported the same thing twenty times, keep reporting. Too busy is not an excuse, include AIPA in important correspondence. Is filling out paperwork tedious? You bet it is. Is continuing on the current industrial trajectory worse? Yes. Be professional and objective in your reporting, not emotive.


When the company says “Thanks for your 50th report we’ll accept the risk”. What then? This moved is already being played in safety critical areas not just to many NOTAMs.

When playing your game pilots also risk be accused of using “safety reporting” as a industrial tool.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Office staff and those in most industry’s come in at 8am instead of 9am and many would leave well after 5 or 6pm…. Some take calls/meetings at 8pm or later it’s the same at every company…Its never a 38 hour week for the so called ‘9 to 5’ers’ you compare yourself
to, and most management staff will work 60+…..Unlike pilots they don’t get overtime or paid the extra few hours or get any time in lieu so count yourself lucky…If you want to get ahead and maintain a good job, working ‘to the rule’ won’t get you far in a competitive world, it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed and if you want it more than the next guy. It’s called work ethic, some have it some don’t…..Whatever industry, the ones who count time and want every dollar accounted for are replaced by those who have a better attitude and work ethic. The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

Nothing like a nicely written post that proves the original point 🙄

If withdrawing this free service is such a problem to the company, then it is clearly valuable to them and should be rewarded as such. Try boarding one of their aircraft with baggage over the allowed weight limit, you get charged…and heavily.

[dragon man]

Great first post.

[John Citizen]

The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

The harsh reality is that it's actually becoming less easier to replace or keep pilots now and there is a pilot shortage.

[ddrwk]

it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed

How is extra effort by pilots recognised by Qantas?

By issuing ultimatums of losing flying if dictated terms at not agreed to for new aircraft types?

By threatening an employee organisation for daring to represent its members when it insists on agreement terms being adhered to?

Pilots have recognised over the years that there IS no reward for going above and beyond when it comes to how they are treated by their employer. So why bother? With the COVID experience resetting a number of priorities for employees, is it any wonder that most are now doing the bare essential required for their employment and focusing on other, more rewarding aspects of their lives?

Seniority is what keeps most pilots where they are. I wonder if that was removed how the competition would look when it came to employers attracting pilots?

[propaganda]

When the company says “Thanks for your 50th report we’ll accept the risk”. What then? This moved is already being played in safety critical areas not just to many NOTAMs.

When playing your game pilots also risk be accused of using “safety reporting” as a industrial tool.

That's appalling - If I consider the risk a significant threat to safety - I would escalate this to CASA ....or the ATSB.

[43Inches]

Office staff and those in most industry’s come in at 8am instead of 9am and many would leave well after 5 or 6pm…. Some take calls/meetings at 8pm or later it’s the same at every company…Its never a 38 hour week for the so called ‘9 to 5’ers’ you compare yourself
to, and most management staff will work 60+…..Unlike pilots they don’t get overtime or paid the extra few hours or get any time in lieu so count yourself lucky…If you want to get ahead and maintain a good job, working ‘to the rule’ won’t get you far in a competitive world, it’s usually the extra effort you put in that’s noticed and if you want it more than the next guy. It’s called work ethic, some have it some don’t…..Whatever industry, the ones who count time and want every dollar accounted for are replaced by those who have a better attitude and work ethic. The harsh reality is, your seat will easily be replaced by someone more wanting tomorrow.

Complete BS and shows you are either trolling or have never actually worked in an office or other occupation. If there's no overtime paid most staff will drop tools and leave, work ethic being linked to working with no pay is complete tripe. Try getting a trade to work an hour without pay, or a GP. Only office workers looking for a promotion or such will put in extra hours, the rest will be leaving 5pm sharp for a pub appointment. Guess you've never tried to get into a bank or other white collar workplace within 5 mins of closing time, guess what, it's shut, closing time sharp, even a few minutes before hand. Why? because they don't get paid to be there any longer. If you are comparing to an ad exec or real estate agent, that's different they make themselves available to work for better commission or bonus, so that extra work time is making them money.

BTW getting in early and leaving later to avoid traffic is not working either, done that myself, you just gas bag with other employees while you wait for work time, or the traffic to subside.

[Checklist Charlie]

Normalisation of deviance = tell a lie often enough and for long enough and it becomes the truth.

CC

[vne165]

Not just the aviation sector where NoD is a thing....great first post

[JamieMaree]

43 inches,
You live in a sheltered workshop. Nothing could be further from the facts.

[43Inches]

43 inches,
You live in a sheltered workshop. Nothing could be further from the facts.

What facts are you arguing, working outside of nominated hours is not as common as suggested. The original post suggested all workplaces do this which is complete tripe. Many workers have a spine and just refuse to work unpaid. Others agree to do it and thats really their choice. Yes in entry level jobs in some areas they can treat you like ****, pay cash well below award etc etc. That is not the case for most jobs, and now there is a skills shortage those employers are crying foul because nobody wants to work for them.

Also mentioned was managers working longer hours, because of meetings, cont act requirements etc... That is why they are paid significantly more to run the show. If you dont have a company that employs shift managers then you will be paid to sort out problems after hours, round the clock. Its no longer 9-5. Real management are usually on packages tailored to the needs of the job.

PS Whether you put in extra hours or not will not save your job when they come to replace you with cheap imported labor. You might get a few more hours as the bloke who trains the people who replace you that's about it. Then you might get contracted every now and then to fix the problems the new guys stuffed up, because they won't work for free to do it after hours.

I'll also clarify we are not talking about mum and dads fish and chip shop, family business or such, rather proper 9-5 corporate work or shift factory work or similar.

[JamieMaree]

More rubbish 43 inches.
I worked in the offices of a major Australian airline for 25 years as a manager. I can say without hesitation that nearly all of the office staff, most of whom were covered by an EBA, carried out their jobs with dedication and professionalism. Very few were clock watchers and most, if not all, did the extra yards when and where required.
Even today, such dedicated people, do the extra hours to get pilot rosters out each and every month. I can assure you that they don’t down tools at 5pm or leave unfinished work until after the weekend.
I didn’t detect, at all, that this professionalism and dedication was motivated by brown nosing for a promotion.
Yes, the mummies had to leave at certain times because they had child commitments, but when needed they happily made alternative arrangements.
Unlike the engineers/ ground staff who worked in the overhaul shop: At 3.30 pm, the equivalent of the local olympics would take place as they ( a lot of them) sprinted, yes sprinted, out of the workshop, clocked off, across the pedestrian crossing, through the turnstiles, up the ramp to their carpark. I suspect the motivation for this was to beat the traffic.

[43Inches]

Again we are not talking aviation, Aviation is the worst working conditions out of most white collar jobs I know, what we were comparing to was outside of aviation. In retail a manager is paid somewhere around 3 times a floor worker, in aviation the equivalant is paid maybe a few thousand more, not even double. The reward for management and office positions is pathetic in aviation for all airlines, which why corporate positions that are not the top jobs are in constant turnover. Too much stress, not enough support, not enough pay. Unfortunately I've worked for enough airlines to see they all have the same issue, not enough staff in those positions paid too little to retain.

To put it in perspective a store manager at Coles is paid in excess of $100,000 depending on store size up to $200,000. They also get access to a number of perks. That is the equivalent of a base flight ops manager, flight attendant manager, ramp or airport base manager etc. They also get underling assistants and such to help them do their job, shift managers, department managers, all cascading down so the upper managers workload is not huge. In aviation management you are usually solo, handling the jobs of several people on pay for one.

PS if you think work ethic means working for free, just because the boss won't give you the time or resources to do it properly there's no saving you, and all you do is pay for more bonus to the AJs of the world. The common theme for office work is now less hours but more intense work during those hours to allow more free time. Talk about moving to 3 and 4 day weeks (although I'm yet to see it en-masse), the old happy workers are productive workers etc.... Aviation is still in the 1950s.

[Ollie Onion]

Best talk on Normalised Deviance I have watched, worth the time if you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljzj9Msli5o

[43Inches]

Best talk on Normalised Deviance I have watched, worth the time if you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljzj9Msli5o

Great example, except in that situation he is describing you are aware you are deviating, a lot of pilots slip into this unaware they are going there. Sometimes its deviations from crew experiences where the previous experience was with a captain that was very aware of the limits, then the same fo now a captain tries the same thing in less conditions and fails. They were not as aware of the limits as the more experienced crew.

[DropYourSocks]

More rubbish 43 inches.
I worked in the offices of a major Australian airline for 25 years as a manager. I can say without hesitation that nearly all of the office staff, most of whom were covered by an EBA, carried out their jobs with dedication and professionalism. Very few were clock watchers and most, if not all, did the extra yards when and where required.
Even today, such dedicated people, do the extra hours to get pilot rosters out each and every month. I can assure you that they don’t down tools at 5pm or leave unfinished work until after the weekend.
I didn’t detect, at all, that this professionalism and dedication was motivated by brown nosing for a promotion.
Yes, the mummies had to leave at certain times because they had child commitments, but when needed they happily made alternative arrangements.
Unlike the engineers/ ground staff who worked in the overhaul shop: At 3.30 pm, the equivalent of the local olympics would take place as they ( a lot of them) sprinted, yes sprinted, out of the workshop, clocked off, across the pedestrian crossing, through the turnstiles, up the ramp to their carpark. I suspect the motivation for this was to beat the traffic.

JamieMaree, you have ~114 posts of largely attacking or talking down to pilots over several years. Rather a lot of angst for someone who claims to have been middle management for 25 years.

But here's some generational info that is seperating the younger generations from the older. Quality of life is becoming more important than outright money, and you're starting to see that in the new contracts US pilots are negotiating. Something that is being targeted is the company wasting your time unpaid, like long airport sits for example. At delta, if a sit is over 2 hours, they get 1 minute of flight pay for every 2 mins thereafter. Not bad if you're a captain on USD$350/hr. This will either result in making more money for inefficient schedules, or make schedules more efficient. Either is good.

They also have a saying in the US, it's FUPM (I'll leave you to google it). Unpaid labour, whether on the flight deck or in the office is not good work ethic, it's exploitation. I'll leave you with this question though. After 25 years in airline management of turning up early and working late, instead of spending that time with the people in your life that you actually matter to, was it worth it??

[Sunfish]

JaimeeMaree: Unlike the engineers/ ground staff who worked in the overhaul shop: At 3.30 pm, the equivalent of the local olympics would take place as they ( a lot of them) sprinted, yes sprinted, out of the workshop, clocked off, across the pedestrian crossing, through the turnstiles, up the ramp to their carpark. I suspect the motivation for this was to beat the traffic.

By your obvious contempt for the engineers, you have just demonstrated the yawning gulf between management and staff. You must be horrible to work for.

‘’Let me explain it to you; the non tie wearing, dirty handed workers on the floor that you despise indeed have to clock on and clock off. They are paid an hourly rate, period. They have to line up, like serfs, at the end of the day, behind the turnstiles, and wait for the bell to ring before they can clock off and go home. If they are late for work, even by a minute, in my day we were fined fifteen minutes wages. The rigid “clock on / clock off” system demonstrates that their only value to the company was the hours they supply. If more hours were needed then you paid overtime. There was SFA incentive to “do that little bi extra’.

‘’Meanwhile, while the engineers are standing patiently in their queue, you salaried types who don’t have your hours measured, are sashaying in and out making small talk with the security guards, or going out for coffee. What was worse in some establishments was that the management car park was inside the security fence. When you were queued up waiting for the bell on Friday afternoon, you got to watch the bosses drive past you like lords of creation, while we were getting ready for the hundred yard sprint to the muddy car park in the rain…

Been on both sides, most talk about “extra effort”, “work ethic”, etc. is just management crap. You won’t be thanked, le lone rewarded for extra effort. In fact senior management, seeing two people do the work of four, often responds by cutting staff.

‘’The bigredrat is spot on.

[Fonz121]

What’s also apparent to me is that since the pandemic, those that are ‘office workers’ have significantly more flexibility in when and how they work, and things like Working From Home give that employee considerable benefits to their personal lives.

This is an understated detail that no one seems to be recognising. A large section of society have been gifted huge improvements to their work life balance since 2020. This to me, would be comparable to a 20% pay rise, although everyone will differ in how much they think time at home is worth.

When it comes to our next eba ‘negotiation’ we shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to how other workers have fared in monetary terms alone. We should be looking at all of these work/life improvements and saying “we’d like some of those as well please”. Or the financial equivalent. Personally I’d take the time at home.

[43Inches]

Not only were a lot of my mates working from home due to the pandemic but they got allowances and tax breaks to set up home offices. So they got to stay home and were paid more. That being said, some of them like to go to the office as a break from home for a few days a week and interact with colleagues.

Been on both sides, most talk about “extra effort”, “work ethic”, etc. is just management crap. You won’t be thanked, le lone rewarded for extra effort. In fact senior management, seeing two people do the work of four, often responds by cutting staff.

That's where productivity suffers as the staff know that and come up with ingenious ways to look like they are working when they are not. Simple things like carrying a manila folder, occasionally opening it to look at a blank sheet inside while you gas bag about the weekend. Management will see the folder and think you are shop talking. If they see you just talking and happy they assume you don't have enough work and get grumpy. Engineers are no different, just have something in hand that looks like you are conversing over that part or data set. The key is to never look like you are done working and management will assume everyone is being 100% productive. Some of the 'hardest' working people in managements eyes are just really good at deception and the real powerhouses go by unnoticed as they do it quietly in the background.

The secretaries at the old CAA office in YMMB come to mind. They were great for getting things done quickly without fuss. Need a licence printed, they would do it, follow up on some paperwork they would go to who was handling it and get an answer. When the gov at the time decided to downsize CAA/CASA they were the first to go and it became difficult to do the simple things as you had to deal directly with the FOI or such dealing with it and they were never in or had time.

When it comes to our next eba ‘negotiation’ we shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to how other workers have fared in monetary terms alone. We should be looking at all of these work/life improvements and saying “we’d like some of those as well please”. Or the financial equivalent. Personally I’d take the time at home.

Hence why Rex pilots jumped at getting an extra 2 days off per roster and got it, although on a buyback scheme, but it at least means if they get to normal staff levels you will get 2 extra RDO rather than reserves and if you don't you get paid more for the same workload. Pilots don't really get to work from home, and each ground course replaced with a CBT just means another flying day so additional days off is the only real way to get proper lifestyle balance.

[Capt_SNAFU]

After todays announcement of Finnair wet lease this topic may need a bump.