Let’s fix Notams

[Lazyload]

Great YouTube video. Notams are totally broken in Australia as well. https://youtu.be/499kGRS81dg

[scrum]

I noticed this one for YSSY the other day. The four foot shrub - very hazardous to flight safety.

RUNWAY DISTANCE SUPPLEMENT (RDS) AMD
RWY 07 APPROACH GRADIENT 3.8 PERCENT DUE SHRUB 25FT AMSL (4FT
AGL) BRG 268 MAG 1396M FM ARP AND 135M FM RWY 07 THR 49M NTH RWY CL.
AMD ENR SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA (ERSA)
FROM 01 310428 TO 03 300500 EST

[Lead Balloon]

ICAO hasn't been able to complete the SARPS for GADDS, more than 7 years after the disappearance of MH370. There's no chance that any simplification rather than further complex-ification of the NOTAM system will happen before hell freezes over.

Imagine how much busy-work 'safety' is created by people surveying shrubs and other flora, the results of which surveys require an amendment to the approach gradient to a runway and the promulgation of corresponding NOTAM because of flora with tops at 4' AGL. Presumably more amendments and corresponding NOTAMs will be required, as the shrub does what shrubs tend to do?

[KAPAC]

Rather issue a notam than trim the shrubs ?

[TimmyTee]

Perhaps it’s a sacred shrub to someone that deserves world heritage protection?

[Cedrik]

CASA could incorporate changes to notams while they are changing ANR's (or whatever they choose to call them these days) to plain English and condensing the number of pages to a realistic level. That's working well so far.......

[BuzzBox]

Imagine how much busy-work 'safety' is created by people surveying shrubs and other flora, the results of which surveys require an amendment to the approach gradient to a runway and the promulgation of corresponding NOTAM because of flora with tops at 4' AGL. Presumably more amendments and corresponding NOTAMs will be required, as the shrub does what shrubs tend to do?

They could prune said shrub or chop it down, but that might take a bit of lateral thinking...

[Captain Dart]

That would also be another NOTAM: ...SHRUB PRUNING IN PROGRESS...

[Lead Balloon]

I have the solution:

First, obtain advice, from a horticulturalist, as to the likely growth rate of the shrub. Then plot the increasing approach gradients that correspond with the likely height increases of the shrub over time (with an appropriate safety margin). Then put that plot in the RDS.

So the approach gradient could be 3.8 percent for e.g. the next month, then 3.9 percent for the month after that. The increase won't be linear, because of different growth rates in different seasons, but pilots are capable of deriving the applicable point on a curved plot e.g. daylight and darkness graphs.

Job done!

[Lead Balloon]

And the shrub should be lit (as in: illuminated at night, not ignited).

[compressor stall]

Can someone enlighten me pls why Sydney appears to be the only airport to publish Approach Gradients?

[morno]

And the shrub should be lit (as in: illuminated at night, not ignited).

No I like ignited, because then the shrub wouldn’t exist afterwards. And then we wouldn’t need a NOTAM

[Lead Balloon]

Because, CS, Sydney has [spoken in the voice of the Knights Who Say Ni]: A shrubbery!

[compressor stall]

What with a nice two tiered effect with a little path down the middle?

[Lead Balloon]

That's the vision.

[PPRuNeUser01531]

Notams to be relayed in plain easy to read format and domestic flights to revert back to using registration as callsign. Simple, straightforward, common-sense safety enhancements. Please listen CASA, work with us, not against us.

[Lead Balloon]

And maybe categorised from ‘know this or die’ (e.g. runway closed; airspace in which you could be shot down) to ‘for your amusement if bored’ (e.g. 4’ shrub).

[ethicalconundrum]

I noticed this one for YSSY the other day. The four foot shrub - very hazardous to flight safety.

RUNWAY DISTANCE SUPPLEMENT (RDS) AMD
RWY 07 APPROACH GRADIENT 3.8 PERCENT DUE SHRUB 25FT AMSL (4FT
AGL) BRG 268 MAG 1396M FM ARP AND 135M FM RWY 07 THR 49M NTH RWY CL.
AMD ENR SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA (ERSA)
FROM 01 310428 TO 03 300500 EST

Meh - that's expired. But - in a bizarre twist of fate, the good folks at YSSY have seen it their duty to re-issue it under NOTAM 0600/23, ending in March(or not?).
I'm contacting the folks at AU NOTAM facility and asking for some kind of reasoning that this NOTAM was issued, and again superseded with the same exact info. As an 'aerodrome operations manager' in the colonies, I want to find out if they will tell me anything about the origin or inspiration for squawking a 4ft tall shrub 135M from the threshold. I don't hold out much hope for an honest dialogue.

[ethicalconundrum]

I think we are treading in a dangerous area WRT the entire NOTAM system. The original idea was a good one to keep pilots up to date on evolving changes in the aero environment so they can make the best decisions possible enroute. However, the system is now reaching the point where it's becoming the potential source of obfuscation and misery for all aviators. the chaff far and away obstructs those small nuggets of real interest. This is noted in the end of the cute video as the 'stealth' or hidden NOTAM that can affect the flight as the pilot wants to diligently cover the material but there is just so much it becomes an eye-glazing mess of rote acknowledgement to CYA.

I take a bit of exception to the portrayal of the devious or incompetent, or simply cruel airport manager who sits at the computer and just tossed detritus into the NOTAM system for no good reason. I've meet many other airport managers, and trust me or don't we have zero interest in making our jobs harder, or further adding to the misery of our own little fief or the misery of the pilots out there. I've recounted in a different thread my sad tale of woe concerning a designated FAA inspector who chose to identify a couple of power poles, that have zero affect on my airport ops, but he's annotated it on the airport inspection report as a potential hazard, leaving me no option but to submit a perm NOTAM about these poles. Now, they are stuck there, clogging up the NOTAM system where no one will ever care but as long as the FAA rep noted it, I have to put it in the system for liability exception.

So, sorry for my part in the debacle. I have little or no choice. The airport has been there for 40 years, the poles have been there for > 20 years, but up until 4 years ago, they were not a factor until the FAA decided they were, or are, or will be. I'm working to have the poles removed, but I'm not the guy in charge here, and the rest of the people who can do something about them, really don't get a spit if they stay up or come down.

[Lead Balloon]

Only one point of disagreement: It’s not “now reaching the point”; it’s past the point.

It’s the product of a typical bureaucratic system where the whole is less than the sum of the parts, because there appears to be no one with the strategic view and capability to build a priority allocation function into the system.

[RussianBot]

What with a nice two tiered effect with a little path down the middle?

One that looks nice … and not too expensive

Or maybe you could cut it down with … a HERRING!

[compressor stall]

One long international flight I did across many FIRs, the FIR NOTAMs only were 133 pages in normal font. And there was some important stuff buried on page 80 that would have caused significant angst if I hadn't found it. I was glad I'd spent the 2 hours the day before poolside checking them.

NOTAM requirements are here https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/NOTAM-Data-Quality-Requirements-for-CASA.pdf

[swh]

The best way to fix notams would be a fee of US$1 every time each notam is read by a pilot.

sometimes 156 pages for a flight.

[MechEngr]

I find it odd that there is no mention of software to do the conversion of the majority of NOTAMs that are conventional so they can be sorted and rated automatically leaving the smaller irregular presentation NOTAMs to be interpreted. The workload should be considerably eased by that. If there was a service, then the user interpretations might be collected and, if they are consistently interpreted by the users, added and substituted into the automatic category. Pay users a couple of dollars if they submit before it goes automatic.

If a code always stands for some statement, it's not difficult to do a find/replace. Similar with reformatting times and dates.

I like the compensation angle unless the pilots can influence the issuing of NOTAMs as a money maker. Look what happens to software developers when a reward is handed out for finding bugs in the code. If it takes 20 seconds to read one, that's 3 per minute, or 180 per hour. At a dollar a piece that's pretty good compensation.

[ethicalconundrum]

If the NOTAM admin system would allow the person entering the NOTAM to rank or rate it, that would solve some of the problem. One could enter a NOTAM into the system and rank it between 1 being super-critical(runway xx fouled, closed to all traffic UFN) down to 10(4ft shrub 135M from threshold). It would give pilots an instant way to filter the info based on the person entering the data from the start.

Of course, it's up to the person entering the data not to fudge it and consider every NOTAM they enter as a 1. With that case, then using a designated NOTAM reviewer from the airline(s), and possibly from a group of mil and corp pilots could then squawk any NOTAM that was mis-ranked as a 1 for the proverbial shrub and have it moved to a ranking of 10.

Also, for a temp NOTAM, do not allow them to be re-issued repeatedly for the same squawk condition. Require that it must go over the wall to a perm NOTAM and meet the requirements for a Perm NOTAM. That would remove at least 10% maybe more of the chaff.

[RampDog]

Maybe that shrub needs PPRUNing? :8:rolleyes:

[bugged on the right]

I think it's litigation avoidance. I worked for one employer which provided notams for the entire Pacific region for a Hong Kong, Bangkok sector and another employer whose system only gave relevant notams for the leg and diversions. Much better and likely to be read.

[Angle of Attack]

There’s no way to fix the NOTAM issue actually, if it was in plain English they would be 2-3 times longer anyway. I’m able to scroll 100 notams in about a minute as a shorthaul pilot, but that relies on multiple sectors per day and you pick up a new one easily, or not 😂

[cogwheel]

One must remember that the NOTAM system is world wide and is part of ICAO. In my time with them it took an average of seven yrs to process any change in their system due to language differences and very slow mail in some parts of the globe etc.

Notwithstanding there is a very urgent need for an update. Airservices could improve the system greatly and still be ICAO compliant. EG: Why does a GA flight operating OCTA (in G) need all the NOTAMs for the nearby Primary airport? It works the other way as well, the 737 does not need info on en-route GA dromes etc….

AIRSERVICEs have been tackled on this a number of times over the past decade to make the PFIBs smaller and more relevant, but they don’t see a need and use standardisation with ICAO as an excuse. CASA need to apply the screws for some change. Not sure if anyone there knows what to do however!!

The other side of the coin is that much of GA do not even bother getting or reading them. That is also part of the problem.