RAF Museum fundraising to save Scarf VC medal

[Jhieminga]

See: https://www.forces.net/services/raf/imminent-risk-raf-museum-works-save-war-heros-victoria-cross-medal
The RAF museum is trying to raise £250,000 so that it can match a bid from last year's auction of Arthur Scarf's VC medal. It was sold to an overseas buyer but if the RAF museum can raise the funds (part of which will be from their own account and a heritage grant) it will stay in the UK and will be placed on display at the RAFM. Arthur Scarf's medal was one of 22 awarded to RAF personnel and the only one for actions in the Far East. For many years, the VC scroll bearing his name flew on VC10 C1(K) XV109.
GoFundMe page here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-the-scarf-vc

[albatross]

In the USA it is illegal to sell a Medal of Honour.
They should enact a similar law for the Victoria Cross in Commonwealth countries.
”It is illegal to buy, sell, barter, or manufacture any decorations or medals authorized by Congress for the United States armed forces.
In General.— Whoever knowingly purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Title 18 U.S. Code § 704 (Public Law 113-296).”

[NutLoose]

For many years, the VC scroll bearing his name flew on VC10 C1(K) XV109

Correct and when the miners strike was on in the seventies ish, a photo of it appeared in a newspaper with the front door open hidng part of it, so it read Arthur Scar.. and the newspaper wittered on about had the RAF painted Arthur Scargills name on one of their aircraft.

[SilsoeSid]

A good friend of mine mentioned Sqn Ldr Scarf being remembered at the rowing club 'Pongo' used to row with. His nephew recently laid a wreath and there is now a plaque in memory...

Arthur Scarf - from Stratford NFU to heroic RAF pilot awarded the Victoria Cross (https://www.stratford-herald.com/news/arthur-scarf-from-stratford-nfu-to-heroic-raf-pilot-awarde-9253188/)

The dedication of the Stratford Boat Club’s Victoria Cross holder is ‘Pongo’ Arthur Scarf and the club now have a plaque to honour Arthur’s achievements. (https://stratfordobserver.co.uk/sport/stratford-boat-club-to-hold-armistice-day-and-remembrance-sunday-events/)

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1308x632/sqnldrscarfplaque_af78cb1db9b56fc4bc398475ddbd076d777a54a3.p ng

[Gordon Brown]

Anybody able to post his citation? He's not a name I recognise.

[Herod]

Gordon; there is a thread running on the history site, with a link. Or go the the museum website, It's on there as well.

[falcon900]

In the USA it is illegal to sell a Medal of Honour.
They should enact a similar law for the Victoria Cross in Commonwealth countries.
”It is illegal to buy, sell, barter, or manufacture any decorations or medals authorized by Congress for the United States armed forces.
In General.— Whoever knowingly purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08924H1H3/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B08924H1H3&linkCode=as2&tag=charleshnet-20&linkId=1d385f5bb8a27967ead13173f0788f97), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Title 18 U.S. Code § 704 (Public Law 113-296).”

Was the fighting not supposed to have something to do with freedom in the first place….?
Why should the descendants of the recipient of any medal not be free to sell it should they wish? I wouldn’t be inclined to do so personally, but I certainly don’t see it as disrespectful. As for sanctioning someone for having the timerity to pay a lot of money to buy one, what is the problem with that?
While I am on a roll, I am not sure that paying £250k would be the first and best use of funds by the RAF museum. Surely what is important is recording and recognising the bravery behind it. The piece of metal is just that, and the museum already has plenty of examples of it.
For the absolute avoidance of doubt, I am deeply respectful and appreciative of the selfless bravery and sacrifice which lies behind all medals, not just the VC. Recognition of that is what is important, rather than the piece of metal. Spend the money on telling the stories even better, and forget the medal.

[Jhieminga]

Anybody able to post his citation? He's not a name I recognise.
On 9 December 1941 all the available aircraft at RAF Butterworth were ordered to make a daylight raid on the Japanese airfield at Signora in Thailand. The aircraft were on the point of taking off when the enemy attacked the airfield and with the exception of Squadron Leader Scarf’s aircraft, which had already taken off, all the aircraft were either badly damaged or destroyed while still on the ground. Squadron Leader Scarf witnessed the destruction below and decided that he would continue the attack on his own. This he successfully did but the opposition over the target was severe and he was attacked by a considerable number of enemy fighters. Even though seriously wounded, he continued to engage the enemy in a running fight back to the Malaysian border in an attempt to return to Butterworth. However, because of the seriousness of his wounds he was unable to reach his destination and had to force-land at Alor Star on the way. Squadron Leader Scarf completed his forced-landing without causing any injury to his crew, but although he himself was admitted to hospital, Squadron Leader Scarf eventually died of his wounds.
From: https://www.vc10.net/History/VictoriaCross.html#Scarf

More about Arthur Scarf VC here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Scarf

[Davef68]

While I am on a roll, I am not sure that paying £250k would be the first and best use of funds by the RAF museum. Surely what is important is recording and recognising the bravery behind it. The piece of metal is just that, and the museum already has plenty of examples of it.
For the absolute avoidance of doubt, I am deeply respectful and appreciative of the selfless bravery and sacrifice which lies behind all medals, not just the VC. Recognition of that is what is important, rather than the piece of metal. Spend the money on telling the stories even better, and forget the medal.

At the rate the RAFM is currently disposing of aircraft, it may be the only exhibit they have left.

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment, buying the medal is probably in line with their current policy, which involves telling the story of the RAF through it's people and their connection to the exhibit. In that way, Scarf's actual VC may have a greater symbolism than a replica and generic Blehniem (or Bolingbroke). . So you would have a visual display that would lead the visitor through Scarf's history and story, with the final point being that singular small medal that encapsulates the whole story, bravery and sacrifice. I remember the sense of history and awe i felt the first time I held a VC (belonging to a friend's grandfather)

[NutLoose]

At the rate the RAFM is currently disposing of aircraft, it may be the only exhibit they have left.

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment, buying the medal is probably in line with their current policy, which involves telling the story of the RAF through it's people and their connection to the exhibit. In that way, Scarf's actual VC may have a greater symbolism than a replica and generic Blehniem (or Bolingbroke). . So you would have a visual display that would lead the visitor through Scarf's history and story, with the final point being that singular small medal that encapsulates the whole story, bravery and sacrifice. I remember the sense of history and awe i felt the first time I held a VC (belonging to a friend's grandfather)

Yup Duxford Jag is up for grabs. and perhaps Scampton or 617 sqn should look at acquiring

Aircraft & Exhibits 75/M/1232,
X004-1621,
X004-1622
Mohne Dam model in 3 sections
Topographical model Relevance 20/01/2023 20/03/2023

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/app/uploads/2023/01/2023-01-20-Disposals-list.pdf

I am sure they could drag up funds from somewhere, here is a start ;)

MINISTRY OF DEFENCEValue: £21,162.30
Contract AWARDEDFacilitate the Commercial Senior Leadership Team (SLT) Away Day on 3rd Nov to enable the SLT to develop their thinking around the Army Commercial Strategy by leading us to apply the SIT methodology, break cognitive fixedness and focus our thinking on..

https://procurement.co.uk/tenders/2023-01-05

[Herod]

There is a lot of talk about the RAFM disposing of aircraft. Aircraft naturally move on loans or swaps with other museums, to keep the displays interesting. How many people here have visited either London or Midlands recently? Midlands is currently undergoing a major change to its displays, removing the BoB one, created for the 80th (2020) and getting a new one set up for the 80th of Operation Chastise.

[NutLoose]

There is a lot of talk about the RAFM disposing of aircraft. Aircraft naturally move on loans or swaps with other museums, to keep the displays interesting. How many people here have visited either London or Midlands recently? Midlands is currently undergoing a major change to its displays, removing the BoB one, created for the 80th (2020) and getting a new one set up for the 80th of Operation Chastise.


They anre also in the middle of planning a redevelopment of. part of the site. I couldn’t understand the disposal of the HE111 all be it a Spanish built one and the Junkers JU52. I realise they were not RAF types and were built under licence types, but find a genuine one these days…but they did tell a story and in their own right told a part of the RAF and Britains story, after all if they didn’t, why did we bother to recover the Dornier from the North Sea. A lot are NOT swops, but disposals.

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/support-us/introducing-the-raf-midlands-programme/

[Mike51]

I think you’re confusing IWM and RAFM with some of your comments about disposals NutLoose

[tdracer]

Was the fighting not supposed to have something to do with freedom in the first place….?
Why should the descendants of the recipient of any medal not be free to sell it should they wish? I wouldn’t be inclined to do so personally, but I certainly don’t see it as disrespectful. As for sanctioning someone for having the timerity to pay a lot of money to buy one, what is the problem with that?
While I am on a roll, I am not sure that paying £250k would be the first and best use of funds by the RAF museum. Surely what is important is recording and recognising the bravery behind it. The piece of metal is just that, and the museum already has plenty of examples of it.
For the absolute avoidance of doubt, I am deeply respectful and appreciative of the selfless bravery and sacrifice which lies behind all medals, not just the VC. Recognition of that is what is important, rather than the piece of metal. Spend the money on telling the stories even better, and forget the medal.
It has nothing to do with 'freedom' - it's a condition of receiving the medal. Technically the medal belongs to the government, reselling it means you are effectively selling something that isn't really yours to sell.
If a condition of receiving the Medal of Honor is that it's 'non-transferable', then if the recipient doesn't agree with that condition, he/she has the 'freedom' to refuse the medal.
Once they accept the medal, they've agreed to the condition (in the case of posthumous awards, the condition applies to whomever accepts the award on their behalf.)

[NutLoose]

It has nothing to do with 'freedom' - it's a condition of receiving the medal. Technically the medal belongs to the government, reselling it means you are effectively selling something that isn't really yours to sell.
If a condition of receiving the Medal of Honor is that it's 'non-transferable', then if the recipient doesn't agree with that condition, he/she has the 'freedom' to refuse the medal.
Once they accept the medal, they've agreed to the condition (in the case of posthumous awards, the condition applies to whomever accepts the award on their behalf.)

iIt makes a whole lot of sense to me, the MOH award is in recognition of the bravery of the individual alone and rightly so, the medal is just that, a badge to show the recipient has received the honour and no more, it rightly has no intrinsic value as such, as the award rests with the person itself. It is a shame ours do not follow a similar format.

You cannot buy valour, for that you have to earn it, not simply own another persons trinket.


​​​​​​…

[Herod]

I don't know about the He111 Nutty, possibly IWM as Mike51 suggests. However, the Ju52 has not been "disposed of", but has gone to a museum in Kent. Whether long-term loan or transfer of ownership I don't know, but it will be looked after.

The big problem most museums suffer is lack of space. Many of the test flight aircraft at Midlands are moving to storage for a very good reason. The space is needed to set up a display of aircraft for the 80th anniversary of "Chastise" as I mentioned above. If that isn't telling the public about the history of the RAF, and the courage of the crews of Bomber Command (not just the dams raid), I don't know what is. It's a work-in-progress at the moment, but a visit later this year will be well worthwhile to anyone with an interest.

Enough thread-drift, and back to the VC appeal. DONATE NOW!!

[kghjfg]

It has nothing to do with 'freedom' - it's a condition of receiving the medal. Technically the medal belongs to the government, reselling it means you are effectively selling something that isn't really yours to sell.
If a condition of receiving the Medal of Honor is that it's 'non-transferable', then if the recipient doesn't agree with that condition, he/she has the 'freedom' to refuse the medal.
Once they accept the medal, they've agreed to the condition (in the case of posthumous awards, the condition applies to whomever accepts the award on their behalf.)

wow, that’s shocking.

“(in America) technically the medal still belongs to the government, selling it means selling something that isn’t yours”.

that’s quite an insult to the person awarded the medal, they don’t even own it?

Imagine if a relative was awarded a VC, and you were told it’s not actually theirs, because the government is too petty to let them own it.

I’ve been on the fence about medals being sold, but now I understand it, I think it’s the choice of the recipient and the recipient’s family.