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Confusious
29th Jan 2023, 19:34
At what point did Nigel see this? During the briefing, on the camera or when visiting the loo?

‘The pilot saw for himself that the crew member was in no fit state to work and engage with passengers.'

https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/29/gatwick-british-airways-pilot-called-police-on-drunk-stewardess-18183656/

Raph737
29th Jan 2023, 20:13
And tell her to stand down, stay in the crew rest area? He continued the flight so he must have not considered it a safety problem?

Maybe he simply did not like her?

If there had been a history, that could have been dealt with sooner?

I just don't see that i would ever have done that to a fellow crewmember.

I may have told her and the other crew, she's unwell and deal with it in the crewroom after getting more information. Someone may have put something in one or two of her drinks?

I hear you, showing some compassion etc…that said, he was left with no real option as it becomes a safety hazard and he was legally obliged to.

She was operating already and someone could have witnessed that interaction between the two. Let’s say a passenger noticed it, reported it to the airline and police, confirming they witnessed the offender talking to a pilot, the pilot loses his license and goes to jail too.

I would have done the same, it is what it is.

Confusious
29th Jan 2023, 20:24
I hear you, showing some compassion etc…that said, he was left with no real option as it becomes a safety hazard and he was legally obliged to.

She was operating already and someone could have witnessed that interaction between the two. Let’s say a passenger noticed it, reported it to the airline and police, confirming they witnessed the offender talking to a pilot, the pilot loses his license and goes to jail too.

I would have done the same, it is what it is.
'Let’s say a passenger noticed it'
Ralph, that is one possibility, but highly unlikely as that would probably have been in the article.

The most likely time that the Captain would have been able to notice that she was unfit to do her job was during the briefing. I'm not saying that it was, but it the most likely point of required interaction. Keep your eyes peeled for a media follow up report.

airspeed75
29th Jan 2023, 20:25
A very difficult situation but as previous commenters have said if this has only come to light on board then the Captain has been left with no option but to do what he did. To just have a quiet word in her ear to say she's ill when the entire rest of the crew and god forbid pax know what's actually going on would have destroyed his credibility entirely. We don't know for a fact he's radioed ahead for police. He's perhaps radioed ahead explaining the situation to OPS who have taken action.

The fact of the matter is this is probably a high-functioning alcoholic who will now hopefully get the help she needs. The stigma around mental health and addiction is well above average in the aviation industry and seeking help has probably not been an option for this person for fear of losing her income. Shame.

Edited to add she may well have been drinking throughout the duty so noticing in the briefing may not have been possible. He may even have been alerted to this by another member of the cabin crew.

Confusious
29th Jan 2023, 20:33
A very difficult situation but as previous commenters have said if this has only come to light on board then the Captain has been left with no option but to do what he did. To just have a quiet word in her ear to say she's ill when the entire rest of the crew and god forbid pax know what's actually going on would have destroyed his credibility entirely. We don't know for a fact he's radioed ahead for police. He's perhaps radioed ahead explaining the situation to OPS who have taken action.

The fact of the matter is this is probably a high-functioning alcoholic who will now hopefully get the help she needs. The stigma around mental health and addiction is well above average in the aviation industry and seeking help has probably not been an option for this person for fear of losing her income. Shame.

Edited to add she may well have been drinking throughout the duty so noticing in the briefing may not have been possible. He may even have been alerted to this by another member of the cabin crew.
None of us know, but this is the sentence that caught my attention:
‘The pilot saw for himself that the crew member was in no fit state to work and engage with passengers.'

airspeed75
29th Jan 2023, 20:40
None of us know, but this is the sentence that caught my attention:
‘The pilot saw for himself that the crew member was in no fit state to work and engage with passengers.'

"A source told the Sun ‘The pilot saw for himself that the crew member was in no fit state to work and engage with passengers."

This doesn't say at what point this observation was made? Perhaps this was during the process by which she was likely arrested and removed from the aircraft?
Perhaps it was brought to his attention during the flight and at this point he saw it. I highly doubt he saw this prior to taking the aircraft into the air - he clearly isn't shy of reporting her so why would he wait?

I don't think it changes anything and it's likely just a sad case of an alcoholic making a poor decision at the hands of addiction. I'd imagine there will be a very troubled and sad family dealing with this tonight if she has one.

Confusious
29th Jan 2023, 20:48
"A source told the Sun ‘The pilot saw for himself that the crew member was in no fit state to work and engage with passengers."

This doesn't say at what point this observation was made? Perhaps this was during the process by which she was likely arrested and removed from the aircraft?
Perhaps it was brought to his attention during the flight and at this point he saw it. I highly doubt he saw this prior to taking the aircraft into the air - he clearly isn't shy of reporting her so why would he wait?

I don't think it changes anything and it's likely just a sad case of an alcoholic making a poor decision at the hands of addiction. I'd imagine there will be a very troubled and sad family dealing with this tonight if she has one.
Yes, very sad indeed. And one hundred percent agree with you about the stigma associated with mental health and addiction in the industry. Some airlines (including BA) are making a sound effort to offer blameless support mechanisms, but full openness is sadly well into the future. She'll need very specialist support now, so much hope that she gets it and can move ahead with her life, albeit in another direction.

Magplug
29th Jan 2023, 20:49
I had a crew member reported to me in-flight for surreptitiously drinking in the galley. There had been suspicions before that the innocent fruit juice on the galley top was more than it appeared. Her fellow crew members were all pretty pissed off that her behaviour had become so blatant.

That's the problem with being a Captain.... People come to you to tell you stuff you don't really want to hear. Sadly I could not look the other way and the outcome was pretty much as above. Several of the comments above demonstrate precious little awareness of the working environment.

Confusious
29th Jan 2023, 20:51
I had a crew member reported to me in-flight for surreptitiously drinking in the galley. There had been suspicions before that the innocent fruit juice on the galley top was more than it appeared. Her fellow crew members were all pretty pissed off that her behaviour had become so blatant.

That's the problem with being a Captain.... People come to you to tell you stuff you don't really want to hear. Sadly I could not look the other way and the outcome was pretty much as above. Several of the comments above demonstrate precious little awareness of the working environment.
You totally had no option in every sense.

Raph737
29th Jan 2023, 21:59
I had a crew member reported to me in-flight for surreptitiously drinking in the galley. There had been suspicions before that the innocent fruit juice on the galley top was more than it appeared. Her fellow crew members were all pretty pissed off that her behaviour had become so blatant.

That's the problem with being a Captain.... People come to you to tell you stuff you don't really want to hear. Sadly I could not look the other way and the outcome was pretty much as above. Several of the comments above demonstrate precious little awareness of the working environment.

That was my point, if he found out mid flight, he had no other option. You can show compassion and most Airlines will have a process to deal with this, mine has a good set up in place as we have a just culture. That said, ultimately there’s an element of personal responsibility and the captain is legally obligated to take action. I would send an ACARS and notify the company. I would not risk losing my license for not reporting something like this mid operation.

Equivocal
29th Jan 2023, 22:08
I'm not operating crew but something in this just doesn't hang together. As others have pointed out, the point at which the Captain became aware of the situation is important. But if that quote to the Sun ("The pilot saw for himself that the crew member was in no fit state to work and engage with passengers") is anything close to the truth, surely the Captain had other responsibilities and actions to take. It does rather sound like the issue became apparent on the return leg - any earlier and the Captain may have questions to answer. And in this day and age, the Captain had little option.

On a more personal level, I hope the crewmember gets help if she wants it, and that it's a wake-up call to anyone heading in the same direction.

SW1
29th Jan 2023, 22:18
As someone mentioned before, Could have been fine in briefing and outbound sector but then something similar to this happens that would definitely get my attention'!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18652659/ryanair-steward-arrested-drinks-trolley/

Ollie Onion
30th Jan 2023, 00:43
Often at BA you don’t stay with the Cabin Crew and don’t actually perform a formal cabin crew brief so it is feasible the first time the pilot encountered this crew member was during a toilet break or her visiting the flight deck. I had this once myself when a crew member came into the flight deck and smelled like a brewery. I simply said to her that I suggest she reports to the CM that she is too unfit to operate and sit herself in the back row for the remainder of the flight or the other option would be a breath test on arrival. She removed herself, I had a further discussion with her after landing saying that if she did it again it would be the police. I can’t see much point in ruining someone’s life without giving them a chance. I also have had a mate that suggested the same to his FO at report I.e you should go unfit for duty or I will require a breath test before we proceed.

Cloudee
30th Jan 2023, 01:29
I can’t see much point in ruining someone’s life without giving them a chance.
You wouldn’t have ruined her life, she would have done that. By taking no formal action you’ve passed the problem on to the next guy. Command comes with responsibility.

Ollie Onion
30th Jan 2023, 02:17
You wouldn’t have ruined her life, she would have done that. By taking no formal action you’ve passed the problem on to the next guy. Command comes with responsibility.

what a load of rubbish, god forbid anyone make a mistake. So if your colleague turned up under the weather at report you would just call the police and not give them a chance to remove themselves? In this case then I guess you should have ALL the Cabin Crew removed since they obviously let her operate.

Flyhighfirst
30th Jan 2023, 06:37
And tell her to stand down, stay in the crew rest area? He continued the flight so he must have not considered it a safety problem?

Maybe he simply did not like her?

If there had been a history, that could have been dealt with sooner?

I just don't see that i would ever have done that to a fellow crewmember.

I may have told her and the other crew, she's unwell and deal with it in the crewroom after getting more information. Someone may have put something in one or two of her drinks?

Don't know the full story, but I would think it was probably more along the lines of nobody noticed until after departure. Then other cabin crew noticed, and informed the captain. He went and had a chat himself and made the determination that they were unfit for duty. At that point you can’t just stand them down. It has gone to far. You have to report them.

SWBKCB
30th Jan 2023, 06:57
So little information, so much speculation...

crewmeal
30th Jan 2023, 07:03
Gone are the days when some used to have a quiet sip of champers between serving courses in First Class. I doubt whether 'landing drinks' are still served these days!!!

wiggy
30th Jan 2023, 07:15
IMO if the rumoured problem had become known to any other crewmember and/or passenger then with the best will in the world etc IMHO the captain was very boxed in when it came to options.

crewmeal:

" I doubt whether 'landing drinks' are still served these days!!!"

I think they were very much a last century thing........

Asturias56
30th Jan 2023, 07:34
and to serve a message on others?

DaveReidUK
30th Jan 2023, 07:38
To call the police is another.

I would think police would only be required to stop pax from being harmed, blatant disruption, damage, risk to others.

If you don't involve the police then there would be no likelihood of a prosecution. Whether that's a good or a bad thing would depend on your point of view.

Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/20/part/5?view=plain)

FullWings
30th Jan 2023, 08:35
A difficult situation to be in. Having something like this reported to you in front of witnesses is very different to being able to have a “quiet word” with someone and suggest a discreet course of action. The fact that it’s all over the media means that there was probably very little discretion available.

At the moment there is a shortage of pilots and crew in many airlines, and a lot of flights go with a minimum legal crew complement. Standing down a crewmember for any reason will involve mandatory reports. Being presented with someone who is visibly intoxicated leaves little room for manoeuvre.

Confusious
30th Jan 2023, 09:32
You wouldn’t have ruined her life, she would have done that. By taking no formal action you’ve passed the problem on to the next guy. Command comes with responsibility.

Often at BA you don’t stay with the Cabin Crew and don’t actually perform a formal cabin crew brief so it is feasible the first time the pilot encountered this crew member was during a toilet break or her visiting the flight deck. I had this once myself when a crew member came into the flight deck and smelled like a brewery. I simply said to her that I suggest she reports to the CM that she is too unfit to operate and sit herself in the back row for the remainder of the flight or the other option would be a breath test on arrival. She removed herself, I had a further discussion with her after landing saying that if she did it again it would be the police. I can’t see much point in ruining someone’s life without giving them a chance. I also have had a mate that suggested the same to his FO at report I.e you should go unfit for duty or I will require a breath test before we proceed.
'I also have had a mate that suggested the same to his FO at report I.e you should go unfit for duty or I will require a breath test before we proceed.'

Years ago I did something similar. The F/O was very reluctant to call sick and go home but eventually did. Cloudee, I didn't pass the problem on as he thought long and hard and learnt from it. He subsequently thanked me and we became good friends. Ollie, I didn't ruin his life, in fact I definitely helped to make him into the competent Captain he is today. I'm proud of the decision I made as it neither compromised flight safety nor ruined someone's life.

airspeed75
30th Jan 2023, 10:04
It's all a fine line isn't it and it depends on the person's history surely?

If the person is a habitual alcoholic (imo the most likely scenario for reporting to such a job under the influence/ OR drinking on the job) then the person's life would likely be improved in the long term by being forced to face the issue; would likely qualify for help from the airline (it's no longer the case where you just sack an alcoholic and that's that) and they'd perhaps benefit into the future.

If the person just showed up after a very late night with her pals drinking (less likely at 41 as opposed to 21) then yes a quiet word would perhaps be more appropriate.

If the person randomly just decided this was the flight they'd have a few miniatures then a stern talking to is also perhaps appropriate but it's still gross misconduct and a slap in the face to flight safety so I'd probably report it.

As some folk have said - being a Captain brings with it responsibility for the safety of the rest of the crew and the passengers.

USERNAME_
30th Jan 2023, 10:09
Often at BA you don’t stay with the Cabin Crew and don’t actually perform a formal cabin crew brief so it is feasible the first time the pilot encountered this crew member was during a toilet break or her visiting the flight deck..

For the avoidance of confusion, we (CC) and FD all brief together at Euroflyer in our small briefing room.

Confusious
30th Jan 2023, 10:11
It's all a fine line isn't it and it depends on the person's history surely?

If the person is a habitual alcoholic (imo the most likely scenario for reporting to such a drop under the influence/ OR drinking on the job) then the person's life would likely be improved in the long term by being forced to face the issue; would likely qualify for help from the airline (it's no longer the case where you just sack an alcoholic and that's that) and they'd perhaps benefit into the future.

If the person just showed up after a very late night with her pals drinking (less likely at 41 as opposed to 21) then yes a quiet word would perhaps be more appropriate.

If the person randomly just decided this was the flight they'd have a few miniatures then a stern talking to is also perhaps appropriate but it's still gross misconduct and a slap in the face to flight safety so I'd probably report it.

As some folk have said - being a Captain brings with it responsibility for the safety of the rest of the crew and the passengers.
A logical post, but it's not just the person's history. The Captain's ability to assess and act with a degree of compassion is also required. Life is not always about saving your own bacon as posted here earlier.

meleagertoo
30th Jan 2023, 10:50
"On return from Gran Canaria".
ie sector 2.
How was this not spotted and acted upon on sector 1?
Hard to credit that she was over the limit 11-12hrs after coming on duty (few people I imagine drink heavily and immediately go to work as cabin crew) so the implication may well be that she was drinking from the bar - ie theft too.
The poor Captain was put in a hideous position. Do nothing and be complicit to the crime or do his legally required duty and find himself reviled in the crewroom. Sadly it's his duty to act, a part of being a Professional.
Compassion is probably the right approach in the crewroon at report time but doesn't enter into it once actually on duty and has no place in such an event unless the Captain chooses to abrogate his Professional duty and become an accessory to the offence.

Confusious
30th Jan 2023, 10:55
"On return from Gran Canaria".
ie sector 2.
How was this not spotted and acted upon on sector 1?
Hard to credit that she was over the limit 11-12hrs after coming on duty (few people I imagine drink heavily and immediately go to work as cabin crew) so the implication may well be that she was drinking from the bar - ie theft too.
The poor Captain was put in a hideous position. Do nothing and be complicit to the crime or do his legally required duty and find himself reviled in the crewroom. Sadly it's his duty to act, a part of being a Professional.
Compassion doesn't enter into this and has no place in such an event unless the Captain chooses to abrogate his Professional duty and become an accessory to the offence.
If that was the situation then yes the Captain acted correctly in every sense. Is that particular EF rotation always a two sector out and back?

wiggy
30th Jan 2023, 11:10
A difficult situation to be in. Having something like this reported to you in front of witnesses is very different to being able to have a “quiet word” with someone and suggest a discreet course of action..

Agreed...here's why - back end of my career I stupidly thought we had resolved a problem down route to everybody's satisfaction.

Unfortunately somebody on the crew (who was not involved at all in the evenings events) wasn't feeling quite as "comradery" and the problem got back to base...

Not real harm was done but I'm afraid post that incident my advice to aspiring commanders was in this modern world once a third party is witness or even hears about something questionable you have to CYA.

Raph737
30th Jan 2023, 11:38
Reporting is one thing…

… no, reporting a suspicion of intoxication onboard by aircrew always leads to management calling the police. Who do you think can carry out the drug and alcohol tests? There’s no such thing as reporting a crew member who is drunk, and they go home to sort out their hangover afterwards. The law in unforgiving, maybe for you brits is more relaxed?
In the real world that doesn’t happen and the airline will always look to cover their backs.

sudden twang
30th Jan 2023, 11:40
"On return from Gran Canaria".
ie sector 2.
How was this not spotted and acted upon on sector 1?
Hard to credit that she was over the limit 11-12hrs after coming on duty (few people I imagine drink heavily and immediately go to work as cabin crew) so the implication may well be that she was drinking from the bar - ie theft too.
The poor Captain was put in a hideous position. Do nothing and be complicit to the crime or do his legally required duty and find himself reviled in the crewroom. Sadly it's his duty to act, a part of being a Professional.
Compassion is probably the right approach in the crewroon at report time but doesn't enter into it once actually on duty and has no place in such an event unless the Captain chooses to abrogate his Professional duty and become an accessory to the offence.

” Hideous position “ agreed.
“complicit to the crime” “ accessory to the offence”morally maybe, legally on what basis? Criminal law or SERA ?
And it is of course an alleged crime until proven. Smelling of alcohol isn’t a crime and is very subjective anyway.
The impairment ( reason undiagnosed in flight ) was dealt with.

The problem ( professional duty) is how to prevent said crew member from operating impaired in the future.

Tested, charged ,sacked, convicted and jailed will solve the problem but I feel for our colleague who needs compassion and help.

wiggy
30th Jan 2023, 11:54
70 Mustang

Perhaps it is a generational thing?

Dunno, I'm living of a pension these days so maybe you'll have to ask the yoof here about that ..

" When i started, i was told there were very few real rules. Don't break the airplane, don't hurt anybody, what happens in the flt deck, stays in the flt deck, what happens in the cabin, stays in the cabin. As much as possible. Other than that, deal with it "in house." The less individuals informed, the better. ​​​​​​​

Given my old age I recall much the same brief...in that environment it worked well: Long Haul, Carrier Pigeon instead of e-mail, and yes, as I recall it through the mists of time things were perhaps more "comerady"...

I'm not sure you can rely on the same solidarity now .........(now that might be the generational thing and how they are managed)...

Confusious
30th Jan 2023, 11:59
I'll take a bet that everyone here has at some point in their career made a mistake which was successfully 'covered up' by their colleague(s), which otherwise would have landed them in a spot of bother with the company.

The scenario of stealing from the bar and drinking enroute is the only one which would leave no options of exercising compassion, especially as it must have been reported by others.
​​​​​​

wiggy
30th Jan 2023, 12:43
Given I no longer have a say in this, probably my final input on this..

Given all we have is an MSM report on this I'm not sure why there seems to have been a bit of a rush to assume what the captain did or didn't do or say to anybody, or indeed what their entire role in the incident was....there seems to have been a bit of a rush to claim they could have been handled more sympathetically, but who knows?

Maybe when/if this sadly goes court we will be better informed.

SWBKCB
30th Jan 2023, 12:52
Given I no longer have a say in this, probably my final input on this..

Given all we have is an MSM report on this I'm not sure why there seems to have been a bit of a rush to assume what the captain did or didn't do or say to anybody, or indeed what their entire role in the incident was....there seems to have been a bit of a rush to claim they could have been handled more sympathetically, but who knows?

Maybe when/if this sadly goes court we will be better informed.

Agreed - for all we know she was can-canning up and down the aisle or pouring coffee over customers, or maybe just a victim of a malicious colleague ("if you don't do something about it, I'll report you..."). So many bricks being made from so little straw.

B2N2
30th Jan 2023, 13:38
For one we don’t know if an individual is in a particular stressful period of their life. Divorce, break-up, custody battles, financial problems, eviction pending or a multitude of other reasons.
You can make the assumption that an individual is a functioning alcoholic but you don’t know that for sure.
Showing up unfit for duty maybe habitual or a one time never happens again.
We can’t end someone’s career on the 50/50 chance we may be wrong.

Flyhighfirst
30th Jan 2023, 17:26
For one we don’t know if an individual is in a particular stressful period of their life. Divorce, break-up, custody battles, financial problems, eviction pending or a multitude of other reasons.
You can make the assumption that an individual is a functioning alcoholic but you don’t know that for sure.
Showing up unfit for duty maybe habitual or a one time never happens again.
We can’t end someone’s career on the 50/50 chance we may be wrong.

I sure can. I’m not risking my job over someone else’s cock up. At the end of the day they weren’t wrong. They tested over the limit. They were unfit and the captain did it right.

Flyhighfirst
30th Jan 2023, 17:28
Agreed - for all we know she was can-canning up and down the aisle or pouring coffee over customers, or maybe just a victim of a malicious colleague ("if you don't do something about it, I'll report you..."). So many bricks being made from so little straw.

Sorry. You are forgetting this person tested over the limit. They can not under any circumstances be a victim. They may have a problem, and this may force them to deal with it, but a victim they are not!

flash8
30th Jan 2023, 18:03
Agreed...here's why - back end of my career I stupidly thought we had resolved a problem down route to everybody's satisfaction.The number of occasions down route either myself (or the Captain) had to sort out crew trouble, usually alcohol related were so numerous that they were getting reputations at certain bars and a few were banned (!) - some individuals were notorious for trouble... the usual suspects. We were forced to leave one girl behind in Tbilisi after she fell "ill" (aka drunk at 0500) when reporting - there are a few things I don't miss.

SWBKCB
30th Jan 2023, 19:07
Sorry. You are forgetting this person tested over the limit. They can not under any circumstances be a victim. They may have a problem, and this may force them to deal with it, but a victim they are not!

If you read my post and the one above it, you'll see I was referring to the captain.

Passengers looked on in shock as their Airbus A320 parked on a remote stand and was locked down for 45 minutes on arrival in the UK on Thursday afternoon.

Anybody else a bit surprised that there doesn't appear to be any eye-witness accounts?

blind pew
30th Jan 2023, 21:31
I once gave a station manager the benefit of the doubt and [email protected] her when I caught her stealing; I didn’t file a report but she did, obviously had contacts and I wasn’t believed. After a month I went to the chief pilot and told him if he didn’t believe me then I would return to the RHS which I had left after 20 years. It wasn’t the end of the story as she had contacts in traffic which affected my flight concessions.
I stayed in the LHS but covered my arse with paperwork or always had a witness and drew others into my decisions.
Its a bit like lending a friend money.

ClearedToNowhere
30th Jan 2023, 21:46
The aircraft arrived on stand 36, not a remote stand. The aircraft certainly was not “locked down”, the police walked the crew member in question from the aircraft and passengers disembarked normally a minute or two later. They did not “look on” as the crew member was arrested, as no arrest took place onboard.
Please let the investigation run its course before allowing the press to lead the speculation, is all I will say.

Confusious
30th Jan 2023, 21:49
The aircraft arrived on stand 36, not a remote stand. The aircraft certainly was not “locked down”, the police walked the crew member in question from the aircraft and passengers disembarked normally a minute or two later. They did not “look on” as the crew member was arrested, as no arrest took place onboard.
Please let the investigation run its course before allowing the press to lead the speculation, is all I will say.
Thank you.

FloridaCandle
30th Jan 2023, 23:26
Agreed

reefrat
31st Jan 2023, 00:33
A long time ago on Qantas out of LHR i noticed one of the stewards was @issed out of his tree. I offered him my seat into which he promptly collapsed. I covered him with a blanket and made my way aft to the drinks trolley spending the rest of the flight to Bahrein watching the cabin "Manager" searching franticly for his lost crew, On approach I woke him and he made his way apparently sober to the service area

beardy
31st Jan 2023, 01:31
A long time ago on Qantas out of LHR i noticed one of the stewards was @issed out of his tree. I offered him my seat into which he promptly collapsed. I covered him with a blanket and made my way aft to the drinks trolley spending the rest of the flight to Bahrein watching the cabin "Manager" searching franticly for his lost crew, On approach I woke him and he made his way apparently sober to the service area
At what point did you consider that he may have been unable to assist you and the rest of the passengers in an emergency situation?

reefrat
31st Jan 2023, 02:18
He was as full as a tick, he couldn't assist himself let alone others so there was no point in dobbing him in.

beardy
31st Jan 2023, 09:39
He was as full as a tick, he couldn't assist himself let alone others so there was no point in dobbing him in.
Fine, off he goes and does it again and nobody but you is any wiser. There is something about good men standing by and doing nothing.
The main reason cabin crew are on board is for your safety, a role that is compromised by alcohol.

Confusious
31st Jan 2023, 10:24
He was as full as a tick, he couldn't assist himself let alone others so there was no point in dobbing him in.
Interested to know whether you have any professional association with aviation?

airspeed75
31st Jan 2023, 11:20
A long time ago on Qantas out of LHR i noticed one of the stewards was @issed out of his tree. I offered him my seat into which he promptly collapsed. I covered him with a blanket and made my way aft to the drinks trolley spending the rest of the flight to Bahrein watching the cabin "Manager" searching franticly for his lost crew, On approach I woke him and he made his way apparently sober to the service area

What a load of absolute nonsense.

It cracks me up that some folk seem to think they're doing an alcoholic some sort of favour by enabling their behavior. In actual fact you're merely normalising it and making it more likely they go on to do something far more stupid like hopping in the car on the way home drunk and killing someone.

SWBKCB
31st Jan 2023, 12:08
There seems to be an assumption on here that every drunk person is an alcoholic?

nomilk
31st Jan 2023, 12:18
There seems to be an assumption on here that every drunk person is an alcoholic?Not every drunk person at a party or in a pub is an alcoholic. But if you show up drunk at work, there is probably more than a 90% chance that the person has a serious alcohol problem.

rugmuncher
31st Jan 2023, 12:18
There seems to be an assumption on here that every drunk person is an alcoholic?

And the flip-side to that would be Is every alcoholic always drunk?

Magplug
31st Jan 2023, 14:07
Anybody that needs to drink at work is an alcoholic. In my experience any airline employee that raises their hand and says 'I need help' is treated with the utmost compassion and supported by the company. I understand they have moral and legal obligation (in most civilised countries) to do so.

Sadly the majority continue to hide their lifestyle and have become very practiced at remaining under the radar. You may occasionally find someone regularly described as 'The Life & Soul of the party' on nightstops. In reality they may be seeking to normalise their own behavior by dragging in the rest of the crew..... On occasions that has lead to junior colleagues over-indulging, getting caught and losing their job whilst the real culprit goes unnoticed. (Scandinavia is definitely not a place for airline folk to be led astray). Having alcoholics around is not simply a bad idea from a safety point of view. Bad stuff seems to follow them around.

No alcoholic will voluntarily seek help until they hit rock-bottom. That might be losing their spouse, their job or simply one of their kids asking them why daddy always smells like a pub. In my career I have exercised my fair share of compassion. On two occasion I have come down to pickup in the hotel to find an FO who looked like death and smelt like a brewery. On both occasions I did them a favour and sent them back to bed with my diagnosis of food-poisoning..... and a warning from me that this has been a one-time favour and won't be repeated. We were all young and stupid once.

ETOPS
2nd Feb 2023, 07:30
I hear that BA have toughened up their guidance on employees and posting company info on social media.

Wonder if this is linked?

VHOED191006
2nd Feb 2023, 07:39
I hear that BA have toughened up their guidance on employees and posting company info on social media.

Wonder if this is linked?

If it is, I believe that it's a reaction that is over the top.

Confusious
2nd Feb 2023, 10:01
I hear that BA have toughened up their guidance on employees and posting company info on social media.

Wonder if this is linked?
Possibly, but good luck with that as those thst wish to will post under a nom de plume.

nomilk
2nd Feb 2023, 11:42
Possibly, but good luck with that as those thst wish to will post under a nom de plume.
In uniform? How is that going to help?

Confusious
2nd Feb 2023, 11:46
In uniform? How is that going to help?
Is uniform recognition a new technology for tracking social media posts that is exclusive to BA?

USERNAME_
2nd Feb 2023, 11:50
The social media policy was introduced the day of/the morning of the incident, so I don’t believe it is linked.
It is more centred around crew posting their rosters to social media, doing stupid dances in the aisle during turnaround and posting videos with the layover hotels tagged as their location, rather than putting a full stop to any posts, like the media is suggesting.

ETOPS
2nd Feb 2023, 21:04
I hear that BA have toughened up their guidance on employees and posting company info on social media.

Wonder if this is linked?

First time I've been right for about a decade :hmm:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/651149-british-airways-cabin-crew-pilots-banned-posting-photos-themselves.html

nomilk
2nd Feb 2023, 21:09
Is uniform recognition a new technology for tracking social media posts that is exclusive to BA?No, but Insta, Twitter etc work with hashtags and sharing, so if an account has more than a few followers, any pictures and the account will be connected with BA sooner rather than later and it will be very easy to find it via hashtags.

reefrat
3rd Feb 2023, 00:33
Interested to know whether you have any professional association with aviation?
Absolutely none just a long suffering SLF

B2N2
4th Feb 2023, 20:17
Fine, off he goes and does it again and nobody but you is any wiser. There is something about good men standing by and doing nothing.
The main reason cabin crew are on board is for your safety, a role that is compromised by alcohol.

Let’s not assume we’re all catatonic and incapable of making our way out of an aircraft.
We’re not all instantly doomed if we’re minus one cabine crew.

excrab
4th Feb 2023, 22:13
Let’s not assume we’re all catatonic and incapable of making our way out of an aircraft.
We’re not all instantly doomed if we’re minus one cabine crew.

No, not all of us are. But the PRMs and UMs may well be.

India Four Two
5th Feb 2023, 03:23
No, not all of us are. But the PRMs and UMs may well be.

Not to mention the regulations concerning minimum cabin crew.

beardy
5th Feb 2023, 04:55
Let’s not assume we’re all catatonic and incapable of making our way out of an aircraft.
We’re not all instantly doomed if we’re minus one cabine crew.
So you're happy to find your way out, in the dark, in an aircraft that is burning and not level, possibly in water? These are all scenarios the cc train for. YOU may be capable but others may not and could be in your way impeding your exit. I don't think you understand their role, nor their training.

Gordomac
5th Feb 2023, 09:26
"Burning, not level, possibly in water", cripes ! Even the drunk CA would probably wake up and make his own way out ! CC compliment normally exceeds the leagal requirement of one per 50. Hopefully the CA who was wrapped up in a pax seat from LHR to Bahrain will have got a thumbs down from the rest of. the team. Hopefully.

Confusious
5th Feb 2023, 18:04
Let’s not assume we’re all catatonic and incapable of making our way out of an aircraft.
We’re not all instantly doomed if we’re minus one cabine crew.
Add in the fact that the majority of passengers don't pay attention to the safety brief and the panic factor then you'd regrettably be proven wrong.

Winemaker
6th Feb 2023, 04:42
Add in the fact that the majority of passengers don't pay attention to the safety brief and the panic factor then you'd regrettably be proven wrong.
Not to mention hauling their carry on bags on exit.......

givemewings
6th Feb 2023, 13:53
Not saying what reefrat did was right, but QF to BAH?

We're talking something like 40 years ago...

reefrat
10th Feb 2023, 23:28
Yep, Worked in Saudi 72-74, different times, In 1970 the Bahrein terminal was 2 nissen huts one for men one for women and we all lodged in the Gulf hotel after the Speedbird closed

PeeToo
15th Feb 2023, 16:44
Interesting how some here seem to think its just fine and dandy to sweep it under the carpet if possible, but would be first in the queue to criticise the police when they allegedly do the same thing with their bad apples.

Second point:
"it was reported in The Sun" - for those not in the know about UK newspapers - means "in the absence of our reporter putting in a scintilla of effort to verify or check anything, this is what we have made up in order to sell more papers"

Confusious
15th Feb 2023, 19:31
Second point:
"it was reported in The Sun" - for those not in the know about UK newspapers - means "in the absence of our reporter putting in a scintilla of effort to verify or check anything, this is what we have made up in order to sell more papers"
Are you suggesting that the Sun has fabricated the story?

reefrat
21st Feb 2023, 04:12
Absolutely none just a long suffering SLF
Here we are displaying my aviation credentials, just a hooker upper