AKL - MEL routing?

[Glorified Dus Briver]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1079x1912/screenshot_20230125_224356_296277d4c0126e1a9ea2df583c23f64d7 6a580e6.jpg

Anyone know what's happening with this routing? I can't sleep at night...

[tossbag]

mmm, that would be block of closed airspace. But don't worry, the block that is closed tonight will be open tomorrow, and the block that is open tonight will be closed tomorrow.

120 controllers given redundancy, genius CEO work.

[VHOED191006]

mmm, that would be block of closed airspace. But don't worry, the block that is closed tonight will be open tomorrow, and the block that is open tonight will be closed tomorrow.

120 controllers given redundancy, genius CEO work.

They remain a master strategist.

[AerocatS2A]

mmm, that would be block of closed airspace. But don't worry, the block that is closed tonight will be open tomorrow, and the block that is open tonight will be closed tomorrow.

120 controllers given redundancy, genius CEO work.
Is that a fact? Other aircraft appear to be flying direct. To me it looks like a non-EDTO route.

[Beer Baron]

Could also be due to non-ETOPS. Head up toward Norfolk Island to bridge the gap to the east coast of Oz.
(Aerocat beat me to it)

[MK 4A Tank]

Airwork Non-EDTO compliant therefore you have to route within 60 mins Norfolk Island.

[Ollie Onion]

Non-Edto, I believe they lost ETOPS certification due to Boeing revoking the rubber stamp for any cargo conversions done by an outside provider,

[tossbag]

Is that a fact?

Well, no. it was a sarcastic comment. I'm known for my heavy use of sarcasm.

[AerocatS2A]

Well, no. it was a sarcastic comment. I'm known for my heavy use of sarcasm.
It can be difficult to tell.

[decoder]

Makes you wonder how Airwork will do once there are a couple of new freight operator's in NZ.

[MK 4A Tank]

Poorly and their OTP is appalling.

[josephfeatherweight]

How does EDTO apply to freight?

[By George]

EDTO applies to Freighters the same as passenger Ops.

As for on time performance, I don't think anybody at the moment should start a bragging contest. On the 23rd of December it took me 15 hours to get home MEL to BNE with Virgin. VA323 cancelled, rerouted via VA837 to SYD (delayed by hours), re-booked VA957, cancelled after four delays and finally home on VA2351 (delayed). You can walk home on crutches quicker than that.

[Glorified Dus Briver]

Looks like they lost ETOPS cert. a few days ago. Here is the same route from January 21st;


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1761x695/awk4_8a59748c0e4df724040d4aeb6963a9bdab8b6b9f.jpg

[Capt Fathom]

It’s possible that due to an MEL, that ETOPs wasn’t available for that flight. It returned to AKL later that day via a ‘direct’ route.

[packapoo]

[QUOTE=decoder;11373941]Makes you wonder how Airwork will do once there are a couple of new freight operator's in NZ.[/QUOTE

Really? Timeline on that bit of pie in the sky?

[Zinfandel]

https://www.texelair.com

These guys registered an NZ company in August last year.

[tiger-palm]

I maybe wrong, but I understand all non Boeing converted freighters (BCF) will have the same issue re : EDTO - regardless of operator.

[Ollie Onion]

Correct, Boeing did an audit on ALL Boeing Converted Freighters and then removed the EDTO certification for ANY conversions done by anyone but Boeing.

[zanzibar]

[QUOTE]and then removed the EDTO certification for ANY conversions done by anyone but Boeing.[QUOTE]

When did that allegedly happen? Can you supply a reference as I cannot find one anywhere and several non-Boeing converted 73’s conducted EDTO flights this past week.

[kitchen bench]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not aware that Boeing has converted -300’s or -400’s to freighters, just -800’s.

My understanding is that if an a/c has an STC for the conversion that has nothing to do with Boeing and they would find it difficult to justify revoking the EDTO elements for these aircraft.

Besides, it is stated earlier that an audit had been done on “ ALL Boeing Converted Freighters “ (i.e. -800’s) so where is the connection to aircraft converted by third parties that aren’t Boeing Converted Freighters?

I’m finding it difficult to understand how the reliability requirements for EDTO are affected adversely by the conversion.

[VHOED191006]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not aware that Boeing has converted -300’s or -400’s to freighters, just -800’s.

All of EFA's 737Fs are ex-passenger aircraft, with all of the -300s being ex-TN/QF.

[Wizofoz]

All of EFA's 737Fs are ex-passenger aircraft, with all of the -300s being ex-TN/QF.

All 737-300Fs are ex passenger aircraft- Boeing never made a dedicated 737F- the question is on regard to who did the P2F conversion.

[By George]

Airwork has 11 x737-400 and 3 x737-300 working in the Australia/New Zealand network. All the 400's have the AEI cargo door conversion (Aircraft Engineers Inc of Dothan Alabama). Of the 300's one has the AEI door and the remaining two have the IAI (Israel Aircraft Industries) cargo door conversion. With Boeing withdrawing EDTO approval the individual conversion companies are now completing the approval process directly with the FAA. It is only a paperwork exercise and a temporary hiccup.

[Mail-man]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not aware that Boeing has converted -300’s or -400’s to freighters, just -800’s.

My understanding is that if an a/c has an STC for the conversion that has nothing to do with Boeing and they would find it difficult to justify revoking the EDTO elements for these aircraft.

Besides, it is stated earlier that an audit had been done on “ ALL Boeing Converted Freighters “ (i.e. -800’s) so where is the connection to aircraft converted by third parties that aren’t Boeing Converted Freighters?

I’m finding it difficult to understand how the reliability requirements for EDTO are affected adversely by the conversion.

Depressurisation concerns I expect

[VHOED191006]

All 737-300Fs are ex passenger aircraft- Boeing never made a dedicated 737F- the question is on regard to who did the P2F conversion.

Ah righto. According to aussieairliners, it was Qantas Engineering in Melbourne who did the conversion.

[kitchen bench]

now completing the approval process directly with the FAA

Wasn’t it always the case that STC’s were approved by the FAA and not the manufacturer?


Depressurisation concerns I expect

EDTO approval covers such an event so unlikely to be the reason for the alleged removal.


Yet to see any EDTO revocation evidence asked for in a previous post.

My memory may be a bit dim but aren’t EDTO approvals the responsibility of the relative authority (e.g. CASA) in the operator’s State (e.g. Australia) subject to the propulsion reliabilty requirements being met? Providing the manufacturer’s EDTO maintenance criteria are met it is the State that grants EDTO approval, not the manufacturer.