Prince William’s hat

[Warren Peace]

Why can’t the Prince of Wales get a new SD Cap?

The one he wears is in a **** state. He’s setting a poor example.

[langleybaston]

Did not his grandmother say "wear the fox hat" to his father, on his visiting RAF Laarbruch?

[oxenos]

I had been about to remark on it myself. 1960 Cranwell that would have been regarded as a "bashed" hat. Achieved by dipping it in a fire bucket, and stuffing it in the top of a flying boot. The old d'Artagnan style boot.. The few brave/rash souls who did, soon found themselves told to buy a new one. Apart from Dad, who is going to tell him?

[reynoldsno1]

Do Bates still make their 'bashable'? My '1000' mission bashable was auctioned off on the squadron when I left ....

[Old-Duffer]

Sadly, the real BATES hat is no more. If somebody could acquire the pattern etc, they could make a fortune.
Now the RAF issues just about everything from 'stores'. I used to get all my uniform fro Al Wai Lam in Hong Kong - now long gone of course!!
Old Duffer

[Auxtank]

Alright you old piano torchers - illuminate an ignoramus of RAF matters - what's wrong with it?
Looks smart?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/615x409/5_gettyimages_1425512661_4f7567d41552b77ae22a05d4487b47f9295 f3a86.jpg

[Asturias56]

"1960 Cranwell that would have been regarded as a "bashed" hat."

I hate to tell you but it's now 2023.................. that's further away from 1960 Cranwell than the Battle of Omdurman

[oxenos]

I hate to tell you but it's now 2023.................. that's further away from 1960 Cranwell than the Battle of Omdurman
​​​​​​​I do realise thar. I would rather not be reminded of it.

[India Four Two]

that's further away from 1960 Cranwell than the Battle of Omdurman

Any pictures of Major General Kitchener's hat? :E​​​​​​​

[Asturias56]

Since you ask...............

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/336x216/2023_01_20_090222_3270c6517df9d57191a047ac002b36b86c764a4d.j pg

[Asturias56]

I do realise thar. I would rather not be reminded of it.

TBF we're all in the same boat - :(​​​​​​​

[CharlieMike]

That hat looks like it has been curled up or had elastic bands round it!

I had a couple of occasions in my career being pulled up about my hat. First was fresh out of IOT when a WO was stood behind me in stores and noticed I was holding my new hat in a manner to pull the sides down (I was). Second was when I was a first/second tourist trying to attain a hat like the old spec aircrew types that was so battered there was no solid structure left to the thing. My CO made me buy a new hat. Once I had bought the new hat, I did realise it wasn't cool to have a battered looking uniform.

[Cornish Jack]

Alright you old piano torchers - illuminate an ignoramus of RAF matters - what's wrong with it?
Looks smart?
It lacks that essential flat-topped, first-day-on the-job elegance of the 'newbie' London bus conductor.
The alternative to the 'bashed' hat process was upwards of a thousand hours with headphones worn over the top !

[Ascend Charlie]

You'd prefer he wore a North Korean General's frisbee hat?

[MPN11]

A bit late in the day to buy a replacement.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x1259/img_1358_a96688374accfd52308315cf6abcfef31cc17d32.jpg

[Sue Vêtements]

THIS is a hat!

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/C45PDR/adolf-galland-1940-C45PDR.jpg

[Ninthace]

I believe my father achieved the required look to his SD hat by wearing his headphones over his hat while flying Catalinas for extended periods. I just had two, one for every day and one for best. Still managed to get through several hats even so, as the ready use hat got too disreputable and the Sunday hat got downgraded and replaced,

[Less Hair]

Oh the dreaded "saddle" - verboten!

[PlasticCabDriver]

Alright you old piano torchers - illuminate an ignoramus of RAF matters - what's wrong with it?
Looks smart?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/615x409/5_gettyimages_1425512661_4f7567d41552b77ae22a05d4487b47f9295 f3a86.jpg

Looks better than mine used to.

[rolling20]

Jack Currie in 'Lancaster Target', had the misfortune of having his service dress cap removed from the entrance hall of the sergeants mess. It had taken him nearly two years to crumple it into a comfortable ravaged condition ( turning a neutral colour in the process) , it fitted his head like a glove. He was most indignant.
A battered 'Ops cap' was most prized by operational crew, signifying long service, even if that wasn't the case.

[12in95]

My guess is that he wanted to indicate that his flying was operational and not mainly for leisure. Good for him.

[Sleeve Wing]

With respect to uniform hats in general (and a slight thread drift), the RN caps of the 60s (white plastic top) had a metal grommet inside to keep the top taut.
None of us wanted to bear any resemblance to the Chieffie, i/c "parade training" at BRNC, with a hat as flat as a mortar board.
However, should any hat appear to be battle damaged, the first instruction was "off caps" and the presence of said grommet was checked - 5 days ROB should it have been removed !
Answer - one could remove the grommet and shorten it by about an inch with a pair of wire cutters........
Result - hat now looked more respectable, the grommet check drew a blank, and we now bore less of a passing resemblance to the local milk man.
Even better, later on, when flying suits with epaulettes and caps were considered adequate uniform during the working day, stuffing it behind the aircraft seat gave it a definite "experienced ace" appearance !

[bugged on the right]

Anyone who went to CX in the 90s remember the Wh*t**e hat ? Kept on top of a locker and worn when rostered with him. He would sign a check or training flight off only after establishing that the bamboo ring was in place. Hat returned to locker room for next guy. A steel dry cleaners coat hanger was good for putting a bash in.

[BEagle]

The Boss once fed my aged SD cap to vascodegama's snoozing labrador.... I managed to recover it from the happy lab's jaws, but it was in rather a sorry, soggy state...and the strap had been eaten. So my hitherto 'cere' SD cap reserved for parades, weddings and bollockings had to be re-assigned for daily use and the dog-cap was stuffed away at the bottom of my headset bag...

Just as well, because someone stole my good cap at Incirlik, so I had to use the strapless dog-cap but fortunately didn't need to wear it very often as the flight line was a no-hat area. I bought a new one when I got back, which was delivered quite quickly. I think it was a proper Bates one, but came with a horrid plastic strap rather than a proper leather one.

That served me well - until in 2003 I needed a new one. That came from stores and was the cheapest, best made and smartest one I ever had. Less than £20, which I couldn't believe!

[jayteeto]

I have 2. One for best and then “the other one”.
It sat in a box in the garage for 15 years during my civilian career and was fished out for FTRS. It was white with mould and was soaked in a bucket of disinfectant for 2 days to get it fit for use. It’s absolutely minging with no shape and very little colour.
I love it

[Lima Juliet]

Non-uniformity within RAF uniform is a part of its psyche. It’s all a part of the Air Force Spirit developed over a number of years. AVM Dr Fin Monahan DFC calls it “affected nonchalance’ if you listen to one of his lectures on organisational culture. You can read his thesis here: https://etheses.bham.ac.uk//id/eprint/8306/1/Monahan18PhD.pdf

This is what he wrote about the “Operational” or “Bomber” SD Hat in his thesis:

the majority of uniform rejection was in the form of modifications that affirmed the owner’s membership of an elite. The RAF blue with silk scarf, red silk lined jacket and top button undone was, for instance, symbolic of the romanticism, dash and élan of the fighter pilot. A scruffy crushed hat, meanwhile, was typical of bomber aircrews. Different ways of wearing the uniform were representations of the strong silos that existed between subcultural elements of the RAF.

The air force was characterized by an apparently relaxed attitude towards discipline, uniform, and deportment which stood in marked contrast to the standards maintained by the army and navy.

However, the uniform was also ritualistically worn incorrectly; RAF personnel had a counter-institutional relationship.

​​​​​​​The formation of the RAF was not to have an immediate effect upon the flamboyant taste and sense of dress that many pilots and observers had openly flaunted for a number of years...it was thought to be important for morale that officers should be allowed to express themselves in their own fashion

​​​​​​​Another aspect of the R.A.F. dress which struck “the brown job”, as they called their brothers in the Army, was the way in which so many officers and airmen wore their uniforms, and here I noticed that aircrew were usually the worst offenders. One could perhaps forgive the undone top jacket button of the “Fighter Boy”, but not the slovenliness so widespread on some R.A.F. Stations – the flapping jackets, the crushed and dirty caps, the undone buttons.7

Now, HRH Prince of Wales was Combat Ready on 22 Sqn RAF, traditionally a torpedo-bomber outfit, so he is entitled to wear that operational bomber hat from the perspective of tradition (and long may that continue). Also, it makes you look like a total dweeb with a flat top hat - looking like a nail ready to be smashed into the nearest piece of wood!

Bravo PoW for continuing our culture and traditions :ok:​​​​​​​


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/555x717/5d7e7c4a_8cbc_4f70_88ca_301ce05d213b_af4b7216fe1a83a7e0611f4 ce8fa3d6d2256989d.jpeg

An example of how a flat top hat looks…


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1111/6a52f6a7_4c46_4c22_8fe2_8cef11501f0c_51ba9e962d165de63fb6b55 e974b964cd0896979.jpeg

An example of Combat Ready RAF Aircrew in No 1 uniform and someone else dressing up as honorary RAF.

[Wensleydale]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/890x563/daf_e5c55cb8e17c9b368e9ea19c877f677316faa97c.jpg

[OJ 72]

More years ago than I care to remember, I was laying a wreath on behalf of 12 (B) Squadron at a reunion of the ‘Wickenby Register’ - the 12(B) and 626 Squadrons’ Association. The ‘old boys’ were, mostly, ‘Main Force’ Lancaster veterans! I was wearing No 1s, and over the years, my SD hat had been stuffed in Nav Bags, been folded into flying suit pockets, and (naughtily, I admit) been jammed down the side of the jet’s ‘bang seat’…and it really was in pretty rag order!

As we were lining up to lay the wreath, one of the ‘old and bold’ commented on the state of my hat!! Jokingly I said that it was my ‘Op Hat’! He smiled at me and replied…’Jim, I did 30 ops, 20 of them over Germany, and my hat was nowhere in the **** state that yours is’!!!! 🤷‍♂️😂

Next day an order was placed for a new SD Hat from Messrs Gieves and Hawkes!!! 😉

PS…thread drift, but I always thought that RAF SH mates, as far as their idiosyncratic selection of flying kit was concerned, were the true heirs and successors of the Desert Air Force!!! 😎

[Dunhovrin]

Even in Civvie Strasse blokes still strive for a 40-JFKs Ops hat. I worked hard to make mine as wide and flat as a helipad.

[albatross]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1292x1966/491b0f93_2cfa_4553_a7f0_68b1845be844_cd4afdc1a9a8b06462037ec 1ca748cc446c1a06e.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1480x2000/6e820c2a_7b92_43ed_8a47_dc6dac22ba67_c28894849bcf5a60323f295 38e9b60dc3bfbbafb.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x2000/6149544e_5a29_4a41_b88b_b3605c23498e_3ff22741b6d2a96151e2787 10aa721163f298f18.jpeg
Some WW2 USAF dress code humour from Bob Stevens’ very funny book “There I was…flat on my back.”

[Ascend Charlie]

In WW2 my father (RAAF) was attached to an RAF squadron flying Halifax out of Libya, living in the desert. Being from Oz, he didn't have any support in the desert re new uniforms, so after 2 tours they were looking a bit ratty. He had also been promoted from Plt Off to Sqn Ldr in 1 year and earned a DFC.

He was sent to the UK for a break. On landing at the RAF base, the officious little Flt Lt Duty Officer called this scruffy-looking Plt Off to attention and ordered him to go to the equipment store for a fresh kit and report back to him for inspection. Yessir, right away sir, toddles off to the store. Then, fitted out in a fresh uniform with Sqn Ldr stripes he then fronts the Duty Officer, "Well, Flight Lieutenant, did you have something to say to me?" "....ummmm...no sir..."

[pedroalpha]

In the mid 70’s I was on I suppose my 4th tour wearing my original Herbert Chappel hat. By then it had turned a nice shade of green and was down at the edges. My role in those days was constant detachment to Europe living in the field so I purchased a chip basket and left the SD item hanging on the antlers of a deer head in the crew room. Over the months, my SD hat would disappear only to be returned some weeks later to its antler home. By then, I had decided that my future headgear should remain flat and easily stowed in my flying suit leg pockets.
Upon posting, I elected to bequeath my SD hat to the squadron as a useful reserve for those in temporary need.
I wonder if it is still serving a vital purpose?

[cheekychimp]

THIS is a hat!

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/C45PDR/adolf-galland-1940-C45PDR.jpg
No, that's a Nazi in a jaunty hat. Looking forward to the "but he's an honourable Aircrew German, not a Nazi" comments.

[iRaven]

No, that's a Nazi in a jaunty hat. Looking forward to the "but he's an honourable Aircrew German, not a Nazi" comments.

Hmmm, know him well then? Galland was not a favourite of Goring or Himmler, in 1944 he came within an ace of being arrested and punished or executed. His stardom as a German ace saved him as Hitler intervened due to his popularity. Also Bob Stanford-Tuck and Douglas Bader seemed to like him a lot and got on well with him. Stanford-Tuck was even asked by Galland to be Godfather to one of his kids - he accepted. I would trust the judgement of these former foes as the character of this man and as a great fighter pilot, than a bit of mud slinging on Prune!

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/81be979d_a346_4cba_b824_95da8d1f9597_ad2296d5759fe78edfe846e 862dff0e23d8dd645.jpeg

[FantomZorbin]

I passed my SD hat on to FZjr with the warning that it had been banned on one station by the CO.
However he still wore it, on his station an executive demanded to know where he been to get "That Hat".
He said that it had been his father's, pause ... "Oh that's alright then"

[rolling20]

Hmmm, know him well then? Galland was not a favourite of Goring or Himmler, in 1944 he came within an ace of being arrested and punished or executed. His stardom as a German ace saved him as Hitler intervened due to his popularity. Also Bob Stanford-Tuck and Douglas Bader seemed to like him a lot and got on well with him. Stanford-Tuck was even asked by Galland to be Godfather to one of his kids - he accepted. I would trust the judgement of these former foes as the character of this man and as a great fighter pilot, than a bit of mud slinging on Prune!

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/81be979d_a346_4cba_b824_95da8d1f9597_ad2296d5759fe78edfe846e 862dff0e23d8dd645.jpeg
That maybe the case, but Christopher Foxley- Norris thought 'Galland was a ****'.

[Asturias56]

" Christopher Foxley- Norris thought 'Galland was a ****'."

I thought that was a default setting for a lot of "Aces". Bader is a prime example - and I've met him

[oldmansquipper]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/649x1024/51bd0676_d953_4904_9203_5d07b8884985_4e449bc06621cb912db30d6 99ffc82f07834885c.jpeg
Personally, I think Will’s hat shows a certain style reminiscent of a time when style meant something. (St Athan 1963)

[langleybaston]

" Christopher Foxley- Norris thought 'Galland was a ****'."

I thought that was a default setting for a lot of "Aces". Bader is a prime example - and I've met him

I briefed Bader several times at newly opened Gatwick c. 1960. He was not unpleasant, but there was definitely a master/ servant whiff in the air.
My best customer was [name-drop] Mickey Martin of Dambuster fame, although he cadged my fags routinely.

The older I get the better I used to be ..................

[langleybaston]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/649x1024/51bd0676_d953_4904_9203_5d07b8884985_4e449bc06621cb912db30d6 99ffc82f07834885c.jpeg
Personally, I think Will’s hat shows a certain style reminiscent of a time when style meant something. (St Athan 1963)
Fascinated to see two good conduct chevrons in wear as late as 1960s. Also only one rank chevron ....... this is man service?
I have never managed to find out when GCBs ceased to be awarded. My father wore one in 1945, and they go back in RAF time to 1919. T E Lawrence wore two a little later.

[MENELAUS]

Anyone who went to CX in the 90s remember the Wh*t**e hat ? Kept on top of a locker and worn when rostered with him. He would sign a check or training flight off only after establishing that the bamboo ring was in place. Hat returned to locker room for next guy. A steel dry cleaners coat hanger was good for putting a bash in.

Sadly only too well. What an a@@e he was.

[MENELAUS]

Many moons ago at happy hour R.A.F. Leeming, someone had the temerity to flush Jim S@rfl@@t’s cape leather ‘Snowbirds’ jacket down the loo. One of the best mass bollockings to assembled wives, sweethearts, quite senior officers, and most of the CFS senior staff, that I have ever heard, then ensued. Whilst it was drying out, probably ruined of course, well, someone did it again. This time with his Canuck chip shop hat in the pocket. Whether anything further was done to it I couldn’t say. However, cue much mirth, and yet another profane bollocking, to the extent that he was escorted out of the mess.
They never did catch the culprit(s), although the finger was firmly pointed at the RN contingent. Many years later I met up with him again, reminded him of the story and he stated that it had improved the hat !

[Union Jack]

I find it somewhat bemusing, and indeed amusing, that light blue officers refer to "hats" rather than "caps" as they are known to the dark blue, but invariably to "cap badges" rather than "hat badges"....:D

Meanwhile, back on track, I believe that Prince William's headgear looks just fine, especially since it actually fits him properly rather than being perched on top of his head.:ok:

Jack

[chevvron]

Fascinated to see two good conduct chevrons in wear as late as 1960s. Also only one rank chevron ....... this is man service?
I have never managed to find out when GCBs ceased to be awarded. My father wore one in 1945, and they go back in RAF time to 1919. T E Lawrence wore two a little later.
I may be wrong but I recall the single rank chevron with 4 blade prop was to denote a Junior Technician qualification c1962 to about 1968.

[_Agrajag_]

I may be wrong but I recall the single rank chevron with 4 blade prop was to denote a Junior Technician qualification c1962 to about 1968.

I was a JT in 1972. Four blade prop was in use then.

[The B Word]

Back to your “boat“ with your caps Union Jack :E

[Video Mixdown]

I may be wrong but I recall the single rank chevron with 4 blade prop was to denote a Junior Technician qualification c1962 to about 1968.
Is that not an apprentice wheel, making him a Leading Apprentice?
​​​

[Imagegear]

Attended a direct entry, JT course, in 1970 and the four bladed prop was the chevron then. However the chevron pictured above is an apprentice badge.

IG

[chevvron]

Is that not an apprentice wheel, making him a Leading Apprentice?
​​​
Not very clear in my image but the cap badge looks like it has a green disc backing it so as you say an LA.

[langleybaston]

From scratching around in Google I think the heraldic chevrons, point up, lower sleeve may turn out to show which "entry"/ seniority year the entrant was in.
False alarm for Good Conduct badges ........ in the good old days the RAF had the same system as the RN, up to three badges, carrying extra pay, and taking a good few years to accumulate. Although the army had a similar system dating back to 1836 or so, and men could have incredible numbers of badges, the extra pay was phased out in the years before the Great War.

[ShyTorque]

I find it somewhat bemusing, and indeed amusing, that light blue officers refer to "hats" rather than "caps" as they are known to the dark blue, but invariably to "cap badges" rather than "hat badges"....:D

Meanwhile, back on track, I believe that Prince William's headgear looks just fine, especially since it actually fits him properly rather than being perched on top of his head.:ok:

Jack

I wore a cap at school….. but only in my early teens.

[Mickj3]

Fascinated to see two good conduct chevrons in wear as late as 1960s. Also only one rank chevron ....... this is man service?
I have never managed to find out when GCBs ceased to be awarded. My father wore one in 1945, and they go back in RAF time to 1919. T E Lawrence wore two a little later.In the photograph the hat/cap band is chequered and the caption states "St Athan 1963". Boy Entrants wore chequered cap/hatbands and apprentices wore a single colour cap/hat band. The single stripe/chevron below the boy entrant/apprentice “wheel” indicates that the individual is a leading boy. The two inverted chevrons indicate that he is in the second senior (support entry) entry at RAF St Athan during 1963. This would make him a member of either the 48th, 49th or 50th entries ( plus or minus 1, I think)..

[The Oberon]

I may be wrong but I recall the single rank chevron with 4 blade prop was to denote a Junior Technician qualification c1962 to about 1968.

He is a Leading Boy with 2 GC stripes. I was an apprentice at Locking 61 - 64. GC stripes for apprentices disappeared around late 61. I passed out in Dec. 64 and we were the first entry to have the 4 bladed JT badge as opposed to the previous single inverted chevron JT badge.
Apprentice chevrons could be a sight to behold, a Drum Major Sgt. Apprentice would have 3 chevrons on each arm to denote his rank, 3 inverted left arm Good conduct and 4 inverted right arm to denote the Drum Major.

[langleybaston]

Gentlemen, many thanks, most enlightening.

My only mystery is when man-service GCB chevrons ceased to be worn ......... definitely still on show in WW II.

May I make a pedantic point and then wind my neck in?
CHEVRON is point up [French, as in the pointy things holding up a roof] in heraldry and therefore in badges. However, given that official documents often revert to "stripes" there is no point [see what I did there?] in labouring the chevron theme.

[JSF-TC]

Question from the uninformed.

Back in post #26, there appears to be 3 different styles of cap badge on display.

Can anyone explain why the differences?

[MENELAUS]

Question from the uninformed.

Back in post #26, there appears to be 3 different styles of cap badge on display.

Can anyone explain why the differences?


Different manufacturers. Same as the wings design. Quite a few variations out there. Far down standard.

[chevvron]

Question from the uninformed.

Back in post #26, there appears to be 3 different styles of cap badge on display.

Can anyone explain why the differences?
The 'Spare' one looks like it's straight out of the box and is likely to go straight back afterwards.
You'll have to have a word with Kate though, Willie's collar is very creased.

[Manchester]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/649x1024/51bd0676_d953_4904_9203_5d07b8884985_4e449bc06621cb912db30d6 99ffc82f07834885c.jpeg
If you had Room 4 in that block, was your address Four Quinnell ?

[BEagle]

AP 1358 requires that A plain black Service issue tie is to be worn, secured with a Windsor knot. is mandatory with RAF No1 dress. However, the Royal Family continue to ignore this - presumably due to their attitude towards the late Duke?

[Herod]

Further to post 26, that last picture shows one officer with three medals, the other with only two. Surely that more than compensates for the elder brother getting an extra sausage.

[chevvron]

Further to post 26, that last picture shows one officer with three medals, the other with only two. Surely that more than compensates for the elder brother getting an extra sausage.
Both of them appear to be displaying 'HM The Queens Golden Jubilee Medal' and 'HM The Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal' however the Spare also sports 'The Afghanistan Medal ' with a clasp which I have to admit he deserves.
I'm surprised Willie wasn't awarded the AFC too.

[oldmansquipper]

In the photograph the hat/cap band is chequered and the caption states "St Athan 1963". Boy Entrants wore chequered cap/hatbands and apprentices wore a single colour cap/hat band. The single stripe/chevron below the boy entrant/apprentice “wheel” indicates that the individual is a leading boy. The two inverted chevrons indicate that he is in the second senior (support entry) entry at RAF St Athan during 1963. This would make him a member of either the 48th, 49th or 50th entries ( plus or minus 1, I think)..

46th Entry (2 Wing 4 S of TT)

[Paying Guest]

Question from the uninformed.

Back in post #26, there appears to be 3 different styles of cap badge on display.

Can anyone explain why the differences?
One of the hats is an air officers, and those have a quite different badge anyway.

[MENELAUS]

Both of them appear to be displaying 'HM The Queens Golden Jubilee Medal' and 'HM The Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal' however the Spare also sports 'The Afghanistan Medal ' with a clasp which I have to admit he deserves.
I'm surprised Willie wasn't awarded the AFC too.

You’re more than denigrating the Air Force Cross.

[Darkmouse]

My SD hat, which I wear with flying suit, is an absolute disgrace; almost as disgraceful as my great grandfather's SD hat, upon which it is modelled.

[Old Bricks]

A few years ago, in response to a hint (alright, a threat) from a station commander, my somewhat faded and slightly green SD hat was given a new lease of life by immersion in a bath (without black hatband and badge, or chinstrap) in a solution of Dylon "Saxe Blue" cold water dye. Results were amazing, and convinced station commander that it was not a new, but an infinitely better, hat than the one he had complained about. Googling Saxe Blue dye now doesn't appear to appear in UK, but is available in Australia!

[sycamore]

Old Bricks,you could try `Gentian blue`,but may need a `prescription...!

[Haraka]

I'm sure Scrotum could sort it out locally for Old Bricks in his dotage........

[langleybaston]

I'm sure Scrotum could sort it out locally for Old Bricks in his dotage........

The old wrinkled retainer rides again.

Dhobi Itch is not a laughing matter unless it is someone else's.

[India Four Two]

Dhobi Itch is not a laughing matter unless it is someone else's.

As is gout. Ask me how I know! ;)​​​​​​​

[Old Bricks]

I'm sure that Scrotum has never needed to dip his hat in a bath of Gentian Violet. I will have to ask him.

[212man]

As is gout. Ask me how I know! ;)
I can back you on that - jeez Luise!

[reynoldsno1]

I can back you on that - jeez Luise!
​​​​​​​Allopurinol is your friend...

[Dan Winterland]

It's a great hat and has had the 'coat hanger' treatment. It's a "been there, done that" hat, which he has. He can wear it with pride. (Not in the rainbow sense!)

[India Four Two]

Allopurinol is your friend...

Colchicine is my goto. I never travel without it.

"When you have an attack, keep taking it until the secondary effect kicks in."
"What's that?"
​​​​​​​"Diarrhea!"

[cynicalint]

Colchicine is my goto. I never travel without it.

"When you have an attack, keep taking it until the secondary effect kicks in."
"What's that?"
"Diarrhea!"
And THAT'S when you run to Prince William's hat!

[NumptyAussie]

It's a great hat and has had the 'coat hanger' treatment. It's a "been there, done that" hat, which he has. He can wear it with pride. (Not in the rainbow sense!)

Are you sure? I thought his history had him being pegged as inclusive?

[brakedwell]

Five years after I left the RAF I gave my quite good SD hat to someone who was still serving to get marries in. Surprisingly he still has the same wife, but I am not sure about the hat!.

[NRU74]

Slight thread drift -
Anyone know where I can 'gift' my Mess Kit - I don't want anything for it but perhaps someone can make a donation to a charity of their choice. It was made when I was 18 - over 60 years ago - so it's a fairly small chest size.
. (I know this site doesn't like adverts)

[AnglianAV8R]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/650x533/conductor_950383f7df319d2326c140787078757e6e7e5345.jpg

[chevvron]

Slight thread drift -
Anyone know where I can 'gift' my Mess Kit - I don't want anything for it but perhaps someone can make a donation to a charity of their choice. It was made when I was 18 - over 60 years ago - so it's a fairly small chest size.
. (I know this site doesn't like adverts)
Isn't there somewhere at Cranwell where you can sell/donate used mess kit?

[ExAscoteer2]

Slight thread drift -
Anyone know where I can 'gift' my Mess Kit

Try your local Air Training Corps Sqns.

[chevvron]

Try your local Air Training Corps Sqns.
Only if you're talking uniformed adult staff; cadets can't wear it.
Used mess kits are very expensive and certainly used to be highly prized at Cranwell.
I once had a very distressed lady visit my squadron (her son had recently left my squadron to start IOT at Cranwell) begging help because he was 'required' to acquire mess kit at short notice and she didn't know what to do because the cost of new kit was out of their reach.
I used to get pi$$ed off with some of my VRT companions because they would put their names down for just about every mess function and 'forget' to sew their VRT badges on their mess kit; I was in it for the cadets not for somebody who 'pretended' to be regular officers; they could always wear 'interim' No 1s if they wanted to do that

[212man]

Only if you're talking uniformed adult staff; cadets can't wear it.
Used mess kits are very expensive and certainly used to be highly prized at Cranwell.
I once had a very distressed lady visit my squadron (her son had recently left my squadron to start IOT at Cranwell) begging help because he was 'required' to acquire mess kit at short notice and she didn't know what to do because the cost of new kit was out of their reach.
I used to get pi$$ed off with some of my VRT companions because they would put their names down for just about every mess function and 'forget' to sew their VRT badges on their mess kit; I was in it for the cadets not for somebody who 'pretended' to be regular officers; they could always wear 'interim' No 1s if they wanted to do that

I don’t recall mess kit being required at IOT - has it changed?

[chevvron]

I don’t recall mess kit being required at IOT - has it changed?
I don't know about the requirements; all I can say is this lady had had a request from her son for payment for a mess kit and she was trying to see if we could help scrounge.
I'm sure there was (this would have been about 1990 ish) somewhere at Cranwell where you could purchase mess kit which had been 'returned' because the officer cadet had been 'chopped'.
Admittedly I didn't get too many of these from my squadron but this particular guy stayed the course 'cos I met him at Odiham a few years later.(Yeah I know; nobody WANTED to get posted to Odiham)

[ExAscoteer2]

Only if you're talking uniformed adult staff; cadets can't wear it.


No s**** Sherlock.

[BEagle]

No mess kit at IOT? I don't know....standards!

At my UAS I was appointed senior student in 1972. The Boss congratulated me, handed me custody of the badge of office (a quart tankard*) which was mine for the year, then advised me that I would have to get some mess kit....

So off to Moss Bros where a couple of tailors' assistants just like the "Ooh - suits you, sir" pair from Little Britain found me a jacket from the chest of 'cancelled orders' they had, which fitted just fine. About £30, plus Plt Off braid. The only other item I bought was that awful blue cummerbund. I never bothered with proper mess kit trousers and it lasted for the next 30 years, but seemed to have shrunk a bit and was a bit frayed in places - like me - by the time I retired!

Incidentally, that wonderful source of pre-owned RAF uniform, Ernie Bedford of Newark, is no longer with us and his shop has closed. He was struggling to get sufficient stock in the late '90s as I discovered when I tried to source a blue waistcoat..."I'm very sorry, sir, but the Service is so small now that they're very hard to come by". Such a nice, courteous gentleman in the true meaning of the word. Fortunately I managed to get one from a mate who was off to the airlines!

*I was glad to see that the ULAS Senior Student's tankard was still in use some 40 years later, so claimed it as mine for the evening!

[MPN11]

Used mess kits are very expensive and certainly used to be highly prized at Cranwell.I was fortunate to have acquired [how?] two No. 5 jackets. One for normal beer-throwing nights and one for Balls. Only the good one remains, in a wardrobe along with No. 1 HD, Greatcoat etc. I'm looking at disposal options ... and now I've lost the web-link!

The OH has the same library of time-expired items.

The postage from Jersey would be scary!

[chevvron]

No mess kit at IOT? I don't know....standards!


Incidentally, that wonderful source of pre-owned RAF uniform, Ernie Bedford of Newark, is no longer with us and his shop has closed. He was struggling to get sufficient stock in the late '90s as I discovered when I tried to source a blue waistcoat..."I'm very sorry, sir, but the Service is so small now that they're very hard to come by". Such a nice, courteous gentleman in the true meaning of the word. Fortunately I managed to get one from a mate who was off to the airlines!


That must have been the place that my cadet and my VRT 'companions' went to although I have to add, I did meet a 'nice courteous gentleman' who altered my No 1 but that was when I was still at Farnborough and there was a tailor just down the road on Queens Avenue, Aldershot who was very helpful. That was the year that I was selected to attend HMQ at a Royal Garden Party so he made especially sure everything fitted me OK.

[rolling20]

'So off to Moss Bros where a couple of tailors' assistants just like the "Ooh - suits you, sir" pair from Little Britain....'
You mean the Fast Show BEagle.

[212man]

'So off to Moss Bros where a couple of tailors' assistants just like the "Ooh - suits you, sir" pair from Little Britain....'
You mean the Fast Show BEagle.
indeed

[langleybaston]

indeed

"Which side does sir dress?"

Fortunately my father had briefed me,

Answers by PM only.

[BEagle]

Ah - sorry! You're both correct!


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/225x225/index_9e46299ed8bfeb37864a6384613d770eee18c3d6.jpg

[rigpiggy]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/648x349/image_992bf8b98bc1770cc3866a854b29ed251f94cb83.png
Those are some shexy uniforms

[Sue Vêtements]

"Which side does sir dress?"

Fortunately my father had briefed me

...an unintended double entendre?

[Herod]

Of course, dressing the "wrong" side can cause splitting headaches!!

[Geezers of Nazareth]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/648x349/image_992bf8b98bc1770cc3866a854b29ed251f94cb83.png
Those are some shexy uniforms
Is he wearing Prince William's hat?

[albatross]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1816x1171/8ae542bc_3dda_4f3d_a2af_40a604d0bd7f_67ba451a151938a961927ac 6e91ea16db234084a.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1983x1257/120be125_ad2a_49eb_8726_c0b5c4269fb1_f21164b638a50477c186cc6 7e0a8f11a0f018c81.jpeg
Then there is PO Prune’s famous hat. I think the photos are from either the RAF or RAAF museum site.

[Union Jack]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1816x1171/8ae542bc_3dda_4f3d_a2af_40a604d0bd7f_67ba451a151938a961927ac 6e91ea16db234084a.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1983x1257/120be125_ad2a_49eb_8726_c0b5c4269fb1_f21164b638a50477c186cc6 7e0a8f11a0f018c81.jpeg
Then there is PO Prune’s famous hat. I think the photos are from either the RAF or RAAF museum site.

Despite there being two clear references to his "cap"?:rolleyes:

Jack

[albatross]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1816x1171/8ae542bc_3dda_4f3d_a2af_40a604d0bd7f_67ba451a151938a961927ac 6e91ea16db234084a.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1983x1257/120be125_ad2a_49eb_8726_c0b5c4269fb1_f21164b638a50477c186cc6 7e0a8f11a0f018c81.jpeg
Then there is PO Prune’s famous hat. I think the photos are from either the RAF or RAAF museum site.

Despite there being two clear references to his "cap"?:rolleyes:

Jack

I am sorry did I say something wrong?
Was my use of the word hat a faux pas?
Just curious.

[langleybaston]

Headdress even?

[Herod]

IIRC "Cap; SD; officers for the use of"

[langleybaston]

IIRC "Cap; SD; officers for the use of"

Parade will remove headdress.
Remove..........
HEADDRESS!
(GSM Londist)

[Union Jack]

Parade will remove headdress.
Remove..........
HEADDRESS!
(GSM Londist)
I believe that this order is applicable only to Tri-Service occasions, such as The Festival of Remembrance. The Royal Navy orders are quite simply "Off-Caps" and "On-Caps", whether for Peaked Caps, Tricorn Caps, Caps, and Berets, collectively known as "Headgear" rather than "Headdress" - and never as "Hats!:rolleyes:

Full details at Article 0213-18 of https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/591007/response/1432317/attach/3/brd%201834%20book1%201.pdf for those who require further detail.....:ok:

Jack

[langleybaston]

I believe that this order is applicable only to Tri-Service occasions, such as The Festival of Remembrance. The Royal Navy orders are quite simply "Off-Caps" and "On-Caps", whether for Peaked Caps, Tricorn Caps, Caps, and Berets, collectively known as "Headgear" rather than "Headdress" - and never as "Hats!:rolleyes:

Full details at Article 0213-18 of https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/591007/response/1432317/attach/3/brd%201834%20book1%201.pdf for those who require further detail.....:ok:

Jack
Thank you, and yes, I did know it was tri-service only; just making the mischievous point that, once a year or so, what the RAF [including officers] removes/ wears is not a cap.
A little pedantry has the same beneficial effect as salt and pepper on egg.
Or might be as divisive as Marmite.

[brakedwell]

I remember the RAF forage cap returning in the late sixties/early seventies. I bought one and found it extremely useful for using down the routes. Then our very unpopular Squadron Commander decreed that all his Officers should buy one, so I returned to using my rather battered SD Cap and returned to looking like a bus driver flying an aeroplane.

[Herod]

Ah yes, brakedwell. The infamous "chip-bag".

[MPN11]

Berets, Officers for the use of, are an even worse hazard, unless you have an RAF Regt mate to sort it out for you!

[Wetstart Dryrun]

I watched Vera last night, with an army theme...

Actors should not be allowed to wear berets

[stevef]

Wetstart:
Not only actors, when I was in the RAF a few decades ago, some airmen ignored anhedral and appeared to have a wing sticking out of the right side of their nut whilst others aimed more towards the Ena Sharples hairnet look.
Some army regiments seem to have their own beret positioning habits, like the front being almost pulled down to the bridge of their nose and the badge edging towards the side of the head instead of above the left eye. Not a criticism, just an observation.

[BEagle]

Berets? Oh dear me no. I managed to avoid wearing one of those wretched things ever since I finished officer training.

I'm not sure which is worse - 'chip bag' or beret....

[Null Orifice]

Beret was better for collecting mushrooms! (A quick trip back to the 60s there).

[chevvron]

Ah yes, brakedwell. The infamous "chip-bag".
I used a chip bag for many years ('79 to '98) until I was unceremoneously 'dumped' as an RAFVRT officer.
I've since bought a brand new one still in its cellophane wrapping!

[rogerk]

Was your fathers Catalini time with 210 sqn in the Shetlands ?