Norwich

[colinhunn]

Good news for Norwich this morning.

Permission approved for new 30 acre Business Park incorporating MRO and painting facilities amongst other aviation and non-aviation purposes.

[NickBarnes]

Certainly is when you look at small niche airports, they need to diversify and not become a Doncaster etc so this will do very well in supporting the airport, which looks as though is unlikely to expand its scheduled pax ops from what they have. I assume Air Livery may be moving over or expanding into this new area?

[pabely]

The Southend fans will hope this is an expension of Air Livery facilities at Norwich and not the start of transfer ops from Southend to Norwich.......

[SouthernAlliance]

Do TUI operate their 738 non stop to the likes of Tenerife, Greece and Turkey and any load restrictions due to runway length?

[Diff Tail Shim]

Do TUI operate their 738 non stop to the likes of Tenerife, Greece and Turkey and any load restrictions due to runway length?
There was weight restrictions on the NGs that ended up with canx flights and pax baggage delays as Sunwings pilots had over fuelled beyond performance limits for NWI in the past. Was quite comical.

[Doctor Cruces]

Do TUI operate their 738 non stop to the likes of Tenerife, Greece and Turkey and any load restrictions due to runway length?
Air Europa wnt non stop to ACE from NWI but that was a good while ago.

[Sotonsean]

Air Europa wnt non stop to ACE from NWI but that was a good while ago.

Yes with Boeing 737-400 rather than their current Boeing 737-800, different performance in aircraft.

[Markushillman]

Credit to @@SeanM1997 on twitter and further to what has been posted on the Ryanair thread

From April 1st 2024 (no April fools)

Ryanair to Operate, Alicante, Faro and Malta
all twice weekly, all operating Mon and Fri

Perhaps quite a surprise although certainly a market for a few Sun routes with Ryanair despite the closeness of their largest base. Although some enjoy Stansted I know there are plenty who don't so will be certainly welcomed.

Perhaps my biggest surprise/question mark is Ryanair and it being very much against airports with development fee's as seen when Newquay had theirs. Perhaps a miracle maybe about to happen and Norwich are about to drop it, but more likely the relationship with RCA group that also owns EXT and BOU and I'm sure a very favourable deal for RYR got the deal over the line to Operate from NWI.

[Markushillman]

I won't give the specific numbers but Ryanair within the first 48 hours of the routes been on sale they have for the first month of operation in April 24 sold

Over 340 seats for Alicante
Over 160 seats for Faro
Over 180 seats for Malta

obviously a long way to go for the roughly 9000 seats on sale each month, but certainly encouraging for the what is probably the quieter month of the Summer season and for just 2 days sales in what is a time people are concentrating on paying for Christmas rather than booking holidays.

Clear winner is Alicante but to be expected, if it continues like that I'm sure that will turn into year round like similar operations at Exeter and Teeside.

Hope this is of interest for the very few Norwich observers on here :p

[colinhunn]

Seems to be a big demand for Malaga from the Eastern Daily Press site as well

[Markushillman]

Seems to be a big demand for Malaga from the Eastern Daily Press site as well

Yeh Colin, seems that will be a matter of time before that's added (aircraft availability stopped them adding it to start) , Most likely will have Alicante and Malaga as year round destinations in the future, like the old Flybe operation, with a couple of others as summer seasonal as they have with the likes of Exeter, Teeside, Cardiff. Hopefully Faro and Malta will also be successful for the summer. Seems Alicante will be a great success.

[barry lloyd]

I shall be flying NWI-AMS on Christmas Eve, the first time I have ever used the airport as such. I shall have my £10 at the ready :O

[Markushillman]

I shall be flying NWI-AMS on Christmas Eve, the first time I have ever used the airport as such. I shall have my £10 at the ready :O

Hopefully all goes well as nobody wants any delays on Chaitmas eve. Yeh we all hope that one day it disappears and perhaps Ryanair's arrival might help with that.

[Markushillman]

Just a quick update for the Norwich Observers on Ryanair.

I won't give the numbers now for obvious reasons but Alicante and Faro continue to sell very well, in fact Faro has really caught up with Alicante. Although Alicante still ahead, really think this will go year round.

Malta isn't really doing that well yet, I have seen complaints about the flight times etc, and tbf they really aren't great. Seems rather like Ryanair threw it in, in hope rather than expectation as they didn't have room to add what they wanted yet. Perhaps the documentary on Channel 5 tonight might help the sales :E

Talking about Malta, when Ryanair first started operations at Exeter they started with Malta, Naples and Malaga. Now 5 years later, they have Alicante, Malaga, Faro and Mallorca. Something (all going well of course) of what I'd expect Norwich's Ryanair destinations to look like in a couple of years.

[Asturias56]

Malta isn't a great destination in winter TBH - can get quite wet and stormy

[Markushillman]

Malta isn't a great destination in winter TBH - can get quite wet and stormy

Agreed made the mistake of going there in winter. Norwich's Malta starts on 1st April for the summer. So weather shouldn't be putting people off. We had Malta for years at NWI operated by Air Malta 1x weekly when they used to do charters. Possibly 2 x weekly is a little ambitious by RYR

[bainsey]

Hi, A very quick sad question. As far as I can see the Airport uses 3 types of pushback tractors, 1 small (looks similar to a Hallam HE50) 2 medium (one look new and the other not so !!). Can anyone put a name and maybe a model to any of these please. The reason, I am completing a detailed rendition of the place for MSFS and would like to get it as detailed as poss. Already added those beautiful Aviramp boarding steps that everyone loves !!!
Paul

[Markushillman]

Hi, A very quick sad question. As far as I can see the Airport uses 3 types of pushback tractors, 1 small (looks similar to a Hallam HE50) 2 medium (one look new and the other not so !!). Can anyone put a name and maybe a model to any of these please. The reason, I am completing a detailed rendition of the place for MSFS and would like to get it as detailed as poss. Already added those beautiful Aviramp boarding steps that everyone loves !!!
Paul

Great work doing a decent rendition for MSFS! Will try and get the details for you next time I'm there, unless anyone knows any different

[Markushillman]

Gone are the dreadful flight times to Malta which arrived after midnight in Malta. Creating complaints with the locals, Ryanair possibly didn't quite expect people were used to TUI and its family friendly flight times.

Faro flights adjusted too.

Mon

MLA - NWI
14:00 - 16:30
NWI - MLA
17:05 - 21:25

Fri
MLA - NWI
06:55 - 09:15
NWI - MLA
09:40 - 14:00

Mon
FAO - NWI
14:15 - 17:15
NWI - FAO
18:05 - 21:05

Fri
FAO - NWI
12:50 - 15:50
NWI - FAO
16:20 - 19:20

Mon
ALC - NWI
08:30 - 10:10
NWI - ALC
10:35 - 14:15

Fri
ALC - NWI
15:00 - 16:40
NWI - ALC
17:05 - 20:45

[Markushillman]

Just for the few Norwich Observers as we approach the launch of the Ryanair services from April 1st with just 3 weeks to go.

As I know the rough figures i will just share them for the first 3 set of departures over the easter holidays.

1st April
Alicante - 155
Faro - 173
Malta - 135

5th April
Alicante - 130
Malta - 150
Faro - 155

8th April
Alicante - 155
Faro - 130
Malta - 140

Certainly no disaster on any of those with decent bookings for a new airline and new routes for the airport. I'd probably say if this was a years time these would be closer to the fully booked mark as word of mouth and people realise that Ryanair are at NWI. Going forward there is the post easter and late April dip in bookings before things really take off into May onwards, Faro is very well booked sometimes more so than Alicante, and since the flight times changed Malta has really surged with new bookings. Certainly very positive and hopefully Ryanair can have a little patience we see one or 2 more sun routes in the future.

[jmdavies86]

Certainly no disaster on any of those with decent bookings for a new airline and new routes for the airport. I'd probably say if this was a years time these would be closer to the fully booked mark as word of mouth and people realise that Ryanair are at NWI.

Have they [NWI] scrapped their Airport Development Fee yet, or have Ryanair managed to get such a good deal that it's no longer considered to be an issue for them as they used to withdraw from airports that implemented such fees...?!

[ara01jbb]

Have they [NWI] scrapped their Airport Development Fee yet, or have Ryanair managed to get such a good deal that it's no longer considered to be an issue for them as they used to withdraw from airports that implemented such fees...?!

FR probaby don't mind an ADF like Norwich's, because it has to be paid by the passenger before being allowed through security. Doesn't have to get bundled into the fare FR advertise online.

[MidlandsWanderer]

Have they [NWI] scrapped their Airport Development Fee yet, or have Ryanair managed to get such a good deal that it's no longer considered to be an issue for them as they used to withdraw from airports that implemented such fees...?!

Nope. Still listed under their airport charges for at least the next 2 years https://www.norwichairport.co.uk/airport-development-fee/

[Markushillman]

Have they [NWI] scrapped their Airport Development Fee yet, or have Ryanair managed to get such a good deal that it's no longer considered to be an issue for them as they used to withdraw from airports that implemented such fees...?!

From what I have been told the deal was so good that it made the ADF irrelevant for Ryanair. Or in other words Norwich said have whatever you want, in which Ryanair duly did. (Some of the money earnt from the ADF was used for the Ryanair deal) Plus Ryanair have also developed a very good relationship with NWI's owner the Regional and City Airports group/Rigby Group which also owns Bournemouth and Exeter which Ryanair has a presence, especially Bournemouth that's a base.


Of course the additonal 50 or 60ish thousand or so passengers Ryanair expects to bring in adds another £4 to 500,000 in revenue for the airport through the ADF which can then (as their website states) is used to maintain and develop new routes. So Ryanair might now see it as a win win if they keep getting a sweet deal because of it.

[jmdavies86]

FR probaby don't mind an ADF like Norwich's, because it has to be paid by the passenger before being allowed through security. Doesn't have to get bundled into the fare FR advertise online.

I don't think that's true - they're renowned for withdrawing from airports that have ADFs in place.

From what I have been told the deal was so good that it made the ADF irrelevant for Ryanair. Or in other words Norwich said have whatever you want, in which Ryanair duly did. (Some of the money earnt from the ADF was used for the Ryanair deal) Plus Ryanair have also developed a very good relationship with NWI's owner the Regional and City Airports group/Rigby Group which also owns Bournemouth and Exeter which Ryanair has a presence, especially Bournemouth that's a base.

Yes, I understand that they have a good relationship with RCA, however both Bournemouth and Exeter have scrapped their ADFs. So, as you say, the deal must have been so good that Ryanair doesn't consider it to be an issue, however it could well be a factor at the time when the agreement comes up for renewal.

[MARKEYD]

I don't think that's true - they're renowned for withdrawing from airports that have ADFs in place.



Yes, I understand that they have a good relationship with RCA, however both Bournemouth and Exeter have scrapped their ADFs. So, as you say, the deal must have been so good that Ryanair doesn't consider it to be an issue, however it could well be a factor at the time when the agreement comes up for renewal.

Just as a point
Both Bournemouth and Exeter never had a ADF it was only Norwich

[tommynwi]

A slight change in the S25 TUI schedule.

Paphos. Changed from Thursday to Wednesday.
Rhodes. Changed from Wednesday to Thursday.
Mahon. Changed from Wednesday to Thursday.
Dalaman. Friday departure changed to other carrier.

This now leaves a Friday afternoon departure vacant for the based 737.

[Markushillman]

A slight change in the S25 TUI schedule.

Paphos. Changed from Thursday to Wednesday.
Rhodes. Changed from Wednesday to Thursday.
Mahon. Changed from Wednesday to Thursday.
Dalaman. Friday departure changed to other carrier.

This now leaves a Friday afternoon departure vacant for the based 737.

Thanks Tommy, perhaps finally we might get a new route after many years of the same thing.

[tommynwi]

Thanks Tommy, perhaps finally we might get a new route after many years of the same thing.
I agree, it would be good to see something new from TUI.
On a side note, thanks for the Ryanair updates, enjoy reading your regular updates. All looking a bit more positive for the airport for the first time in a while.

[Markushillman]

I agree, it would be good to see something new from TUI.
On a side note, thanks for the Ryanair updates, enjoy reading your regular updates. All looking a bit more positive for the airport for the first time in a while.

No problem I know there aren't many of us interested in this forgotten about airport in Norfolk, but I know there are still a few of us. Certainly doesn't get the attention certain other airports do on this forum despite it been busier ;)

On a side note on the Ryanair flights.

First flights out on launch day April 1st have load factors now of;

Alicante - 94%
Malta - 91%
Faro - 96%

Even though I know its Easter so booking should be high, Pretty impressive considering new airline/new routes launch :D

[colinhunn]

In the event of heavily delayed flights, I wonder if RYR will accept diversions to the likes of Birmingham or will they expect the airport to remain open into the small hours?

[MidlandsWanderer]

In the event of heavily delayed flights, I wonder if RYR will accept diversions to the likes of Birmingham or will they expect the airport to remain open into the small hours?

It's not Ryanairs choice.

[MidlandsWanderer]

No problem I know there aren't many of us interested in this forgotten about airport in Norfolk, but I know there are still a few of us. Certainly doesn't get the attention certain other airports do on this forum despite it been busier ;)

On a side note on the Ryanair flights.

First flights out on launch day April 1st have load factors now of;

Alicante - 94%
Malta - 91%
Faro - 96%

Even though I know its Easter so booking should be high, Pretty impressive considering new airline/new routes launch :D

They just want full flights to start with so are giving them away. NWI-ALC £220 / STN-ALC £330 (similar morning flights for both). Not exactly rocket science.

[Markushillman]

They just want full flights to start with so are giving them away. NWI-ALC £220 / STN-ALC £330 (similar morning flights for both). Not exactly rocket science.

arent you a delight :ugh:. Considering the majority of the time since they launched on 6th December the NWI-ALC prices have consistently been at around £150-£220 from NWI for April 1st whilst the STN has been as low as £60 then we can see the yield at NWI is much higher for said route for that day and time than Stansted. Not exactly rocket science! And BTW the flight you mention are £233 from NWI and £248 from STN hardly much difference and hardly giving them away, £60 yes, £200 no.

But I think the main point rather went over your head.

[Markushillman]

A slight change in the S25 TUI schedule.

Paphos. Changed from Thursday to Wednesday.
Rhodes. Changed from Wednesday to Thursday.
Mahon. Changed from Wednesday to Thursday.
Dalaman. Friday departure changed to other carrier.

This now leaves a Friday afternoon departure vacant for the based 737.

TUI have also reduced Palma to 2x weekly for 2025 removing the Friday departure.

This is possibly in expectation that if rumours are true RYR will launch Palma at 2x weekly to "compliment" TUI at 2x weekly. Leading to 4x weekly flights in total for Summer 2025 to Mallorca

and of course still the Friday afternoon to fill for TUI in 2025 now which could be Tunisia

Freebird expected to operate the Dalaman on Fridays for 2025 also.

[MARKEYD]

TUI are having a “ work in progress “ with their S25 schedule with a lot of changes being put in place at a lot of UK airports at the moment
A lot of flights being moved to completely different days and times

I believe there summer 25 is released in more detail around mid April with new routes

[Markushillman]

TUI are having a “ work in progress “ with their S25 schedule with a lot of changes being put in place at a lot of UK airports at the moment
A lot of flights being moved to completely different days and times

I believe there summer 25 is released in more detail around mid April with new routes

Thank you MARKEYD great info, shall keep an eye out for anything new that might fill the gap in the NWI schedule then. Thanks again

[Markushillman]

TUI have finished their adjustments for Summer 2025 at NWI, unfortunately it's the same as it has been for the last god knows how many years. With Palma being added in the afternoon gap on Friday using the based B738, so back to 3x weekly without the need to use Albastar who have recieved bad press recently in the lcoal paper. Still a strong possibly RYR might join in on Palma like they have at EXT at some point.

TUI Summer 2025 1x based 738

Corfu 1x weekly Fri
Dalaman 2x weekly Mon and Fri (Friday op by Freebird)
Heraklion 1x weekly Tue
Ibiza 1x weekly Sat
Menorca 2x weekly Thur and Sun
Palma de Mallorca 3x weekly Tue, Fri and Sat
Paphos 1x weekly Wed
Rhodes 1x weekly Thur
Tenerife 1x weekly Sun

Still would be nice to see Antalya added which they did before Covid stopped it before it started.

Shouldn't really complain as I know a few airports that would bite your arm off to have a based 738 operating a TUI summer program.

[pamann]

TUI have finished their adjustments for Summer 2025 at NWI, unfortunately it's the same as it has been for the last god knows how many years. With Palma being added in the afternoon gap on Friday using the based B738, so back to 3x weekly without the need to use Albastar who have recieved bad press recently in the lcoal paper. Still a strong possibly RYR might join in on Palma like they have at EXT at some point.

TUI Summer 2025 1x based 738

Corfu 1x weekly Fri
Dalaman 2x weekly Mon and Fri (Friday op by Freebird)
Heraklion 1x weekly Tue
Ibiza 1x weekly Sat
Menorca 2x weekly Thur and Sun
Palma de Mallorca 3x weekly Tue, Fri and Sat
Paphos 1x weekly Wed
Rhodes 1x weekly Thur
Tenerife 1x weekly Sun

Still would be nice to see Antalya added which they did before Covid stopped it before it started.

Shouldn't really complain as I know a few airports that would bite your arm off to have a based 738 operating a TUI summer program.

Antalya would be an easy addition using a Turkish based carrier. I don’t believe Tui have officially released summer 2025 just yet? It normally happens with much fanfare around April.

[Markushillman]

Antalya would be an easy addition using a Turkish based carrier. I don’t believe Tui have officially released summer 2025 just yet? It normally happens with much fanfare around April.

No they havent yet but seem to have sorted the based frames flying. However like you say Antalya would be easy to add, so fingers crossed 🤞

[colinhunn]

If it happens, probably Freebird again but Sun Express would be nice to throw into the mix.

[Markushillman]

If it happens, probably Freebird again but Sun Express would be nice to throw into the mix.

Yes Sunexpress would be good, but like you say most likely Freebird

[4321]

This started in Apr 2007 to fund an £18M upgrade (it was £3 for adults £1 per child). 17 years later it is £10 per adult, Average 400,000+ passengers a year…
Would love to know where all the money has gone as can’t see where they have spent any on the terminal.

[Markushillman]

This started in Apr 2007 to fund an £18M upgrade (it was £3 for adults £1 per child). 17 years later it is £10 per adult, Average 400,000+ passengers a year…
Would love to know where all the money has gone as can’t see where they have spent any on the terminal.

Well if the comments being posted on social media by passengers who flew on the first Ryanair services yesterday are true and alot are being posted today so not April 1st and April fools. Then Ryanair passengers are not being charged the £10 development fee, all airport fees are included in your ticket, which certainly could explain their arrival at Norwich

[colinhunn]

It's not Ryanairs choice.
Expect Ryanair will make their preference known and the airport won’t want to upset them!

[azzbo]

So can anyone confirm the rumour about Ryanair and the ADF then? Seeing it mentioned all over the place but no actual proof yet.

I'm flying Ryanair from Stansted again this summer as the timings don't work out for me but really hope this is the start of something good.

[Markushillman]

So can anyone confirm the rumour about Ryanair and the ADF then? Seeing it mentioned all over the place but no actual proof yet.

I'm flying Ryanair from Stansted again this summer as the timings don't work out for me but really hope this is the start of something good.

Yes it's correct, someone flew out yesterday and confirmed to me no £10 fee.

[azzbo]

Yes it's correct, someone flew out yesterday and confirmed to me no £10 fee.

Thanks, wonder how they are doing this - do they give you a QR to get through the gates? I really want to see Ryanair succeed from Norwich but as a regular KLM passenger and long time user of the airport this selective applying of the fee is pretty annoying and bound to p off other passengers too. I wonder what KLM themselves think? I remember how bad departures used to be but it's been a long time since the last refurb now.

[Markushillman]

Thanks, wonder how they are doing this - do they give you a QR to get through the gates? I really want to see Ryanair succeed from Norwich but as a regular KLM passenger and long time user of the airport this selective applying of the fee is pretty annoying and bound to p off other passengers too. I wonder what KLM themselves think? I remember how bad departures used to be but it's been a long time since the last refurb now.

Likely the deal they stuck with the airport, the airport has done a lot the satisfy Ryanair, with a "satellite terminal", or what is an older building just opposite stand 5 where passengers are pre boarded to they can go straight on. When Ryanair come it seems they get whatever they want, but could be a case if Ryanair reach a certain level of flights the airport possibly could scrap it entirely, your given a code to let you through yes. Personally I don't mind the departure area, you got WH smiths, the restraunt and can actually find a seat, compared to Stansted and the shopping mall, and trying to find a seat in the holding area. My issue is with the fact they haven't covered the walk down to stand 5, 6 so you get soaked if it's raining the same if your arriving. Really wouldn't take much to just have a covered area installed. Interestingly if you go to the airports website, and read the ADF section, it has been adjusted to such some airlines collect it themselves within the ticket price.

[SWBKCB]

But the airport website still says "all adult passengers departing from Norwich Airport will be required to pay the development fee" and tickets have to be "obtained from the check-in desk or customer services desk if the fee is collected via the operating airline."

[Markushillman]

But the airport website still says "all adult passengers departing from Norwich Airport will be required to pay the development fee" and tickets have to be "obtained from the check-in desk or customer services desk if the fee is collected via the operating airline."

Indeed I believe the fee is part of the Ryanair ticket cost, the website never had the part (happy to be corrected) where is says "if the fee is collected via the operating airline", and your then given a ticket at the airport, so effectively you don't have to purchase separate ticket like all the other airlines. Although I'm very dubious if it is actually in the Ryanair ticket price looking at my future booking, but passengers are confirming it does not have to be purchased at the airport, which is making all the Ryanair pax very happy.

[azzbo]

Presumably all other airlines could also have collected it as part of the normal fees though if Norwich had let them? You always used to have to pay the fee at a terminal by security, it gave you a QR code that then opened gates to let you enter the security check area. I guess they could program them to let Ryanair boarding card QR codes through?

The terminal is quite nice now, when the toilets were in the middle of departures and the bar and cafe were where the toilets are now it was horrible cramped.

[colinhunn]

Presumably all other airlines could also have collected it as part of the normal fees though if Norwich had let them? You always used to have to pay the fee at a terminal by security, it gave you a QR code that then opened gates to let you enter the security check area. I guess they could program them to let Ryanair boarding card QR codes through?

The terminal is quite nice now, when the toilets were in the middle of departures and the bar and cafe were where the toilets are now it was horrible cramped. I’m old enough to remember the original terminal (where the satellite terminal is now)!

[barry lloyd]

If this is the case, then it marks a change of attitude by Ryanair and/or other operators. When Blackpool Airport did this, both Ryanair and Jet2 moved out almost immediately, and now there are no commercial flights from Blackpool.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081216083320/http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=08&month=nov&story=gen-en-251108

[Markushillman]

If this is the case, then it marks a change of attitude by Ryanair and/or other operators. When Blackpool Airport did this, both Ryanair and Jet2 moved out almost immediately, and now there are no commercial flights from Blackpool.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081216083320/http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=08&month=nov&story=gen-en-251108

This is true although hasn't effected Norwich in the same way, due to KLM and TUI especially not seemingly to fused by it although I'm sure they wise it was gone. However I'm not sure it is a change in view by Ryanair, as from what I can see it is basically gone for Ryanair passengers