Alliance Plane Now Circling Rottnest after Taking Off

[rovpilot]

Took off, now looks to be dumping fuel over Rottnest Island - any infor?

[Ascend Charlie]

Quokkas were stirring up trouble, douse them down.

[Icarus2001]

What makes you think it is dumping fuel?

[Capn Bloggs]

"It's an aeroplane laddie, planes shave wood".

[FO NappyBum]

Took off, now looks to be dumping fuel over Rottnest Island - any infor?

You media much?

[43Inches]

The Plain boring pilot,circled the Plain Plane, over ye olde Playne, while observing the Plane of horizon. Down on the Plain, the Planer, planed the wood with plane to make it plainer.

[rovpilot]

Because it took off at 5:30am, went straight into a circling pattern for an hour and a half, then landed, and was followed to parking stand by fire trucks.

[Icarus2001]

Do some research about fuel dumping capabilities on narrow body aircraft. Hot tip for you.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Don't be hard on him/her, it did dump fuel - just via the engines........

[compressor stall]

Do some research about fuel dumping capabilities on narrow body aircraft. Hot tip for you.
Yep. And understand the concepts of MTOW and MLW.

[zzuf]

Yep. And understand the concepts of MTOW and MLW.
The requirement for fuel jettison capability has nothing to do with the concepts MTOW and MLW, and everything to do with climb performance at MTOW less a bit for fuel burn specified in FAR25.1001.

[compressor stall]

The requirement for fuel jettison capability has nothing to do with the concepts MTOW and MLW, and everything to do with climb performance at MTOW less a bit for fuel burn specified in FAR25.1001.
Thanks for taking me out of context to show your familiarity with certification and design requirements.
The point remains the OP should familiarise themselves with why medium sized aircraft circle after departure before a non life threatening return. MTOW and MLW will be enough for aviation journalism 201.

[Duck Pilot]

Easy to identify the experts here.

None of the aeroplanes that Alliance have can dump fuel. Only solution is to stay low and hold to get below the MLW if heavy.

If it’s on fire or another serious issue, get the thing on the ground ASAP.

[grrowler]

Would an engine failure be considered “serious”?

[43Inches]

Would an engine failure be considered “serious”?

In a transport category aircraft of two or more engines it's considered abnormal, not an emergency, unless there was complicating factors. That means you can take your time to do things right, but not dither either. Landing overweight and possibly damaging the aircraft is not necessary, so you can burn some fuel and get closer to a suitable landing weight. The company should have procedures in place so that crew know what is expected of them following an engine failure above MLW, that is whether they should reduce weight for a type, or landing above MLW is approved in that circumstance.

[airdualbleedfault]

In a transport category aircraft of two or more engines it's considered abnormal, not an emergency, unless there was complicating factors. That means you can take your time to do things right, but not dither either. Landing overweight and possibly damaging the aircraft is not necessary, so you can burn some fuel and get closer to a suitable landing weight. The company should have procedures in place so that crew know what is expected of them following an engine failure above MLW, that is whether they should reduce weight for a type, or landing above MLW is approved in that circumstance.
The A320 can depart at 77t, some operators have 64.5 lw some have 66. In the Airbus it's a land ASAP amber, which is not flying around on 1 engine for 4 or more hours. It's a long time since I flew the vintage aircraft (737NG) but I think the basic theory was the same, get the problem sorted and land. Transport category aircraft are designed to land at MTOW, and no damage will be done unless it's a hard landing. That said you wouldn't land overweight for eg a single hydraulic failure or pressurisation issue
​​

[43Inches]

Most aircraft can land at MTOW, it took off at MTOW and the gear didn't collapse so one would assume a soft landing at MTOW would be fine as well, there is also increased compression on the mains as the tail force rotates the aircraft to climb attitude. As for whether no damage is done, depends on what you call damage, might simply add 100 landings to the gear cycles, which damages the bank balance in the long run in addition to an overweight landing inspection. Abonormals that exceed limits generally are allowed for by adding cycles/hours to the part as if it had worn more in some cases.

The point being the company should advise what they want crew to do unless it's plainly obvious. In most aircraft I've flown the checklists direct you to land at the nearest suitable airport. Only emergencies like fire dictate a landing ASAP.

[Capt Fathom]

The point being the company should advise what they want crew to do unless it's plainly obvious.

The company can certainly provide information to the crew which may help with their decision making. They cannot advise the crew what to do!

[zzuf]

Most aircraft can land at MTOW, it took off at MTOW and the gear didn't collapse so one would assume a soft landing at MTOW would be fine as well, there is also increased compression on the mains as the tail force rotates the aircraft to climb attitude. As for whether no damage is done, depends on what you call damage, might simply add 100 landings to the gear cycles, which damages the bank balance in the long run in addition to an overweight landing inspection. Abonormals that exceed limits generally are allowed for by adding cycles/hours to the part as if it had worn more in some cases.

The point being the company should advise what they want crew to do unless it's plainly obvious. In most aircraft I've flown the checklists direct you to land at the nearest suitable airport. Only emergencies like fire dictate a landing ASAP.

FAR 25 maximum design descent rate for landing at MLW is 10ft/sec, at MTOW it is 6ft/sec.

[43Inches]

Which equates to 300fpm in pilot terms. Hopefully the Captains on his A game on the day. And you hope its not a dark and stormy night with crosswind and windshear. I've never had to do an overweight landing, but I've definitely seen Captains try to plow potatoes into the runway, even on good days.

[zzuf]

Which equates to 300fpm in pilot terms. Hopefully the Captains on his A game on the day. And you hope its not a dark and stormy night with crosswind and windshear. I've never had to do an overweight landing, but I've definitely seen Captains try to plow potatoes into the runway, even on good days.

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_3_07/article_03_3.html

[C441]

…..but I've definitely seen Captains try to plow potatoes into the runway, even on good days.
I only saw that when I was an F/O. Once I became a Captain I never saw it again! :ok:

[43Inches]

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_3_07/article_03_3.html

I wonder how many fps the overhead lockers are rated to. I remember a 767 landing into Melbourne where a number opened and a few passengers were injured. 2nd worst was a Jetstar A320 that felt like it was forging metal plates with the undercarriage. But in all fairness nothing should break as such in an overweight landing up to MTOW. You have to really throw these things around to bend stuff badly, unless its an ATR, and they bend in mild breezes. Like MCP, it is fine to use it for hours at a time, but it will reduce the component life of things dramatically. Otherwise if MTOW landings above MLW were safe every day and had no consequence, then why have a MLW.

I only saw that when I was an F/O. Once I became a Captain I never saw it again! https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Try being a trainer or checker, the memories will flood back... When you get a call from the cabin saying that the brace signal should have been given prior to that impact.

[aeromech3]

Before 'G' meter readings were easy to access, the rubber jungle was a good indication a hard landing could not be ignored! :oh:

[krismiler]

The A320 has a procedure for overweight landing, basically the main issue is flap extension as speeds involved are higher. Land it gently, use max reverse and get the brake fans on afterwards. An engineering inspection is required afterwards.

[Pinky the pilot]

When you get a call from the cabin saying that the brace signal should have been given prior to that impact

Or like the apochrophal story about the little old Lady whom, after a reasonably heavy 'arrival,' asked a passing F/A;

"Young Lady, did we land or were we shot down?":}

[nonsense]

You media much?

He's got one previous post, in 2020, which definitely does not look like media:

https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/637743-china-southern-flying-college-jandakot.html#post10957464

Instructed there in 1997 under Morris Tilak - what a legend he was.
Anyone know what Morris is up to now?
I had some great students, and some great dunces.
Sad news, in sad times.

[PiperCameron]

Or like the apochrophal story about the little old Lady whom, after a reasonably heavy 'arrival,' asked a passing F/A;

"Young Lady, did we land or were we shot down?":}

Or a well-remembered Q737 flight to Adelaide (of which I was a pax) where the Steward came on to give their usual post-impact spiel remarking something along the lines of "Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Adelaide, be careful opening overhead lockers in case objects have dislodged during flight and landing" followed by "...Anyone needing chiropractic assistance please remain in your seat and the Captain will be along shortly..." :cool:

[transition_alt]

Seems like the second engine failure in a week for Alliance with VH-UQC losing the right engine on take-off this morning.

[FKNFKRFKD]

All Good!
7 to 9 years😉