EASA & UK PPL questions and future prospects

[Robbo42]

Hi,

Forgive the list of questions but looking for some advice related to my son. He can't see to get a straight answer from the school he is studying at.

As background we are UK citizens and my son will be coming back to the UK once he has completed his training. He started his ATPL approved by EASA in Greece in October 2021 which he will be completing in the next 6 months.

When he initially was signing up the school they said it may be possible for a UK PPL license to be issued instead of a EASA license - it might be a dumb question but the exams he has been siting so far - are the UK PPL and EASA exam papers identical so in theory at the end of the course he can choose which license is issued ?
If the license issued is EASA, when he starts to look for a job in the UK would this be an issue or would he have to convert/obtain a UK PPL additionally and if so is this a simple process ?
When he has been looking at possible job opportunities a lot of airlines need a minimum of 500 hours but he will only have around 250 hours as part of his training. Would he still be able to get a job with fewer hours or if not what is the best advice to build up the additional hours ?

Any advice anyone could give would be greatly appreciated.

[richpea]

Hi,

Forgive the list of questions but looking for some advice related to my son. He can't see to get a straight answer from the school he is studying at.

As background we are UK citizens and my son will be coming back to the UK once he has completed his training. He started his ATPL approved by EASA in Greece in October 2021 which he will be completing in the next 6 months.

When he initially was signing up the school they said it may be possible for a UK PPL license to be issued instead of a EASA license - it might be a dumb question but the exams he has been siting so far - are the UK PPL and EASA exam papers identical so in theory at the end of the course he can choose which license is issued ?
If the license issued is EASA, when he starts to look for a job in the UK would this be an issue or would he have to convert/obtain a UK PPL additionally and if so is this a simple process ?
When he has been looking at possible job opportunities a lot of airlines need a minimum of 500 hours but he will only have around 250 hours as part of his training. Would he still be able to get a job with fewer hours or if not what is the best advice to build up the additional hours ?

Any advice anyone could give would be greatly appreciated.

1. I'm not sure about the deal for PPL, but for ATPL theory exams any EASA exams taken after 31 Dec 2020 are not valid for UK CAA license issue. Whilst the exams are identical the regulatory/political situation is that EASA exams are not good for CAA licenses. In that case to get a CAA license he will have to sit all the exams again under CAA.

2. If he is holding an EASA PPL, he will still be able to study in the UK for a UK CAA CPL and IR, as long as he completes the UK CAA ATPL theory exams. The prerequisite for a CAA CPL is just to hold an Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention compliant private pilots license, which an EASA PPL is. Basically, in terms of ATPL, as long as he sits both EASA and CAA exams, he should be able to get both licenses, but he might have to complete the flying training twice... once at an EASA approved ATO and once with a CAA ATO, and also fly two sets of practical skills tests. These requirements may be different if the course is considered integrated.

To clarify, on a PPL you cannot fly commercially. Holding an EASA frozen ATPL with a UK PPL will not allow you to fly UK registered aircraft commercially. However, at the moment there are airlines currently operating in the UK that will require you to hold an EASA license only to fly with them, whilst there are also airlines that will only accept CAA licenses. At this point the "safest" bet would be to get both, however this might not be financially, practically or motivationally easy! There is no conversion of an EASA CPL-MEIR and ATPL theory credits license to a CAA equivalent that doesn't involve basically doing everything again.

3. There are several airlines with non-type rated low hours second/first officer positions that will accept pilots with 'minimum' hours... ie 200hrs. However, these positions will usually require that the employee funds their type rating and line training through either upfront payment (a la Ryanair) or through salary deductions over a bonded period of time (such as Wizzair). Outside of these options, working as a flight instructor, skydiver drop pilot etc. etc. are good ways to build hours, though not always particularly well paid! Outside of flight instruction these jobs can be difficult to turn up, but they are out there.

For reference I obtained a UK PPL in the UK, then sat only EASA ATPL exams and trained in Europe to get an EASA CPL-MEIR. I'll shortly be starting training with an airline in the UK on around 210 hours total time. However, I'm not able to get a UK CAA CPL-MEIR without first sitting all of the UK CAA ATPL exams and then doing some sort of flight training and skills tests for the CAA.

Hope this helps out a bit!

[Robbo42]

1. I'm not sure about the deal for PPL, but for ATPL theory exams any EASA exams taken after 31 Dec 2020 are not valid for UK CAA license issue. Whilst the exams are identical the regulatory/political situation is that EASA exams are not good for CAA licenses. In that case to get a CAA license he will have to sit all the exams again under CAA.

2. If he is holding an EASA PPL, he will still be able to study in the UK for a UK CAA CPL and IR, as long as he completes the UK CAA ATPL theory exams. The prerequisite for a CAA CPL is just to hold an Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention compliant private pilots license, which an EASA PPL is. Basically, in terms of ATPL, as long as he sits both EASA and CAA exams, he should be able to get both licenses, but he might have to complete the flying training twice... once at an EASA approved ATO and once with a CAA ATO, and also fly two sets of practical skills tests. These requirements may be different if the course is considered integrated.

To clarify, on a PPL you cannot fly commercially. Holding an EASA frozen ATPL with a UK PPL will not allow you to fly UK registered aircraft commercially. However, at the moment there are airlines currently operating in the UK that will require you to hold an EASA license only to fly with them, whilst there are also airlines that will only accept CAA licenses. At this point the "safest" bet would be to get both, however this might not be financially, practically or motivationally easy! There is no conversion of an EASA CPL-MEIR and ATPL theory credits license to a CAA equivalent that doesn't involve basically doing everything again.

3. There are several airlines with non-type rated low hours second/first officer positions that will accept pilots with 'minimum' hours... ie 200hrs. However, these positions will usually require that the employee funds their type rating and line training through either upfront payment (a la Ryanair) or through salary deductions over a bonded period of time (such as Wizzair). Outside of these options, working as a flight instructor, skydiver drop pilot etc. etc. are good ways to build hours, though not always particularly well paid! Outside of flight instruction these jobs can be difficult to turn up, but they are out there.

For reference I obtained a UK PPL in the UK, then sat only EASA ATPL exams and trained in Europe to get an EASA CPL-MEIR. I'll shortly be starting training with an airline in the UK on around 210 hours total time. However, I'm not able to get a UK CAA CPL-MEIR without first sitting all of the UK CAA ATPL exams and then doing some sort of flight training and skills tests for the CAA.

Hope this helps out a bit!

Appreciate you spending the time to reply. Just one further question please …

The flying hours banked studying for EASA license … I assume they “count” towards UK license … so he wouldn’t need to bank another 200 hours plus in UK .. he would simply need to sit a skills test in addition to passing the exams again ?

[richpea]

Appreciate you spending the time to reply. Just one further question please …

The flying hours banked studying for EASA license … I assume they “count” towards UK license … so he wouldn’t need to bank another 200 hours plus in UK .. he would simply need to sit a skills test in addition to passing the exams again ?

Correct, as I understand it, that's certainly how it worked for me. Hours of experience count regardless of where they've been done... although a flight school has to endorse you for the skills test, so they might want to see, or be required by the regulator, to have a certain amount of flying instruction on the books before they can let you take that skills test.