Close Passes to New York High Rise [Archive]

Ewan Whosearmy

7th Jan 2023, 08:50

For any rotorheads who have a LinkedIn account (sorry, I can't post the video here - it won't let me), any thoughts onthis? Second pass in particular looks exceptionally close!

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/fred-north-98b35717_practice-practice-and-more-practice-is-key-activity-7016596024693579776-4QHn?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

hargreaves99

7th Jan 2023, 09:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6p5kOyn1uo

finalchecksplease

7th Jan 2023, 10:04

For any rotorheads who have a LinkedIn account (sorry, I can't post the video here - it won't let me), any thoughts on the sanity or advisability of this? Second pass in particular looks exceptionally close!

Are you trolling here?

If you read the comments underneath the video the same question was asked and the pilot, Fred North, replies: "It is a question of lens choice here ..we needed to get the whole in focus plate form on a wide lens vs a long lens with a blurry background …
It is close for a couple of seconds but we are parallel to the edge plate form so no danger there …before doing it so close we rehearse several times further away and slowly work out way into it "

If you click on his name to check his profile on LinkedIn you can read that he is a very experienced film/motion picture helicopter pilot that did this flight, he has 20,000 + hours of helicopter time all around the world.
Fully licensed in the USA , Europe (JAR license in 65 countries)
Expert on long lining camera under helicopter (Sling load camera work ).
Perfect safety record .
Expert on aerial filming and aerial coordination.

So he is not just a person doing this to show off, it is for his job!

I'm sure if you have any other questions he will be more than happy to reply to you on LinkedIn.

Ewan Whosearmy

7th Jan 2023, 10:42

Are you trolling here?

I'm sure if you have any other questions he will be more than happy to reply to you on LinkedIn.

I'm looking for the opinions of someone other than the pilot in question.

nomorehelosforme

7th Jan 2023, 11:40

Here is a link to Fred North’s website, started out filming events like the Paris to Dakar Rally.

https://www.fred-north.com/

He certainly has had an interesting career and I’m sure there are some people on here that have worked with him.

helispotter

7th Jan 2023, 12:25

There was another piece of footage of him flying through parkland and flying super close to a small tree shared on Rotorheads not so long ago. I am not a pilot, so that makes at least 2 reasons I wouldn't be doing this. Clearly a person in the back of the helicopter taking that video (so one more on board if it all turns to custard), and vehicles apparently still travelling on the road far below which are probably not part of the 'set'.

Bksmithca

7th Jan 2023, 13:03

I'm looking for the opinions of someone other than the pilot in question.
WHY, from my take it appears to be a promotional video that was done likely for the building owners to help with sales. Explain to this group what has your shorts in a knot about this video.

Ewan Whosearmy

7th Jan 2023, 13:38

Explain to this group what has your shorts in a knot about this video.

I am therefore curious to get the opinions of seasoned helicopter pilots other than the person in question as to what sort of risk assessment is done to determine whether such operations can be undertaken, what sort of waivers are required to do them, and what precautions are taken (i.e. clearing the streets below) to mitigate risk to bystanders below.

uxb99

7th Jan 2023, 15:06

Is it possible to get special permission for film flying? Remembering the Terminator 2 Helicopter through the tunnel shot which was performed for real. Could have been Gorilla filming?

jimjim1

7th Jan 2023, 15:28

Gorilla filming?

Maybe you mean — Guerrilla filmmaking.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/736x429/51617f52ae4c20b8a978e7f3f45c5de6_cheese_primates_6331441419b 2f678b0b9ddefc99d7a353c59220e.jpg

Bksmithca

7th Jan 2023, 15:29

Why so defensive? My curiosity about this video stems from knowing that when helicopters hit buildings/structures in cities they fall to the streets below and kill/injure people. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_helicopter_crash I am therefore curious to get the opinions of seasoned helicopter pilots other than the person in question as to what sort of risk assessment is done to determine whether such operations can be undertaken, what sort of waivers are required to do them, and what precautions are taken (i.e. clearing the streets below) to mitigate risk to bystanders below.Not being defensive but you're being evasive. Your original post made no such requests and I quote "For any rotorheads who have a LinkedIn account (sorry, I can't post the video here - it won't let me), any thoughts on the sanity or advisability of this? Second pass in particular looks exceptionally close!" How is your bolded question even close to asking about risk assessment, flight waivers or precautions that might be needed.

finalchecksplease

7th Jan 2023, 17:12

I am therefore curious to get the opinions of seasoned helicopter pilots other than the person in question as to what sort of risk assessment is done to determine whether such operations can be undertaken, what sort of waivers are required to do them, and what precautions are taken (i.e. clearing the streets below) to mitigate risk to bystanders below.

Unless these seasoned helicopter pilots are in the same line of work they would not have the answers to your questions and there aren't many pilots that do that line of work especially at his level.
I'm sure they will have dotted all the i's & crossed all the t's and if you have 20000 hrs with a perfect safety record doing this kind of work you know what you are doing.

Still don't understand why you don't ask him these questions unless you have another agenda.

Lonewolf_50

7th Jan 2023, 17:15

Ewan, how much time have you spent flying helicopters?
I can't remember if you are JAFWF or an honorable Rotary wing aviator.

Ewan Whosearmy

7th Jan 2023, 19:22

Ewan, how much time have you spent flying helicopters?
I can't remember if you are JAFWF or an honorable Rotary wing aviator.

Very low time PPL(H), but per my comment above, I am not posting because I think I know what I am talking about. I am posting because I am genuinely curious to know what checks and balances are put in place for this kind of work.

Robbiee

7th Jan 2023, 19:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6p5kOyn1uo

"I know that balcony with the topless chick is one of these,...?"

SASless

7th Jan 2023, 19:54

Ewan,

Every flight of a helicopter has risks....risks we all accept and find ways to deal with.

Sometimes it is just plain commonsense, sometimes it comes from experience, sometimes from training, sometimes from education , and sometimes by legal requirement....but we find a way to minimize those risks as best possible.

There is no zero risk flight.....none.

To follow your logic every time a helicopter lands on a roof top helicopter-pad, all traffic on the street below would have to be cleared.....do you expect that to be done for every such evolution....landing and departing?

The video shows an expert, very qualified and respected professional helicopter pilot going about his trade. His reputation, skill, experience, licenses, and very notable accident free record speaks for itself.

Westwings

7th Jan 2023, 20:52

WHY, from my take it appears to be a promotional video that was done likely for the building owners to help with sales.

Off topic but I believe this was practising for the MTV Video Music Awards 2020 live performance of The Weeknd. Can't post a link to the video clip as this is my first post here but search for The Weeknd - Blinding Lights (Live on the 2020 MTV VMAs) on Youtube.

John Eacott

7th Jan 2023, 21:40

Bearing in mind that my Ops were in Oz, and the OP references a clip from the USA, any low level or city work we would have a sterile area suitable for either an engine off (if single engine helicopter) or a load jettison if twin engine. Road closure usually sufficed, at the client’s expense of course.

Film work included 50ft high run down LaTrobe Street, Melbourne, chasing a Ferrari: total road closure. US sleeping tablet advert tracking in at dusk to a high rise apartment, very similar to the OP query, used a twin with SE capability.

Lifting the capping spire to a Melbourne cathedral, complete street closure as an ‘expert’ from Roads decreed we couldn’t pick up from an adjacent car park but had to pick up from St Kilda Road and fly across the river to the Cathedral, multiple road closures for that one!

CASA approval was generally covered under a blanket dispensation which covered filming, photography and sling loads, but some required further dispo’s such as Bungee Jumping, but that wasn’t over a built up area 🙊😇. Ops Manual supplements were required for the dispensation, obviously.

I can only surmise the OP example should have incurred similar street closures below, which obviously would be out of sight in the vision we see.

Bravo73

7th Jan 2023, 23:18

Off topic but I believe this was practising for the MTV Video Music Awards 2020 live performance of The Weeknd. Can't post a link to the video clip as this is my first post here but search for The Weeknd - Blinding Lights (Live on the 2020 MTV VMAs) on Youtube.
Here you go:

https://youtu.be/ewfdRy5jfF8

Gordy

7th Jan 2023, 23:30

I am posting because I am genuinely curious to know what checks and balances are put in place for this kind of work.

In my "other" job, my DO works as an aerial coordinator worldwide and works with Fred frequently. He was not on this project, however was recently working the in the LA basin on a movie to be released either later this year or next year.

Without getting heavily into it. Yes there are special permissions obtained. we operate under an FAA approved Movie Manual and waiver. Typically for shots in down town areas, there are many permits to be obtained, street closures, FAA oversight, SAG oversight, site visits start months in advance and measurements are taken, scenarios are drawn up and practiced in safe environment all before showing up on set. Once on set, there are "tailboard briefings' carried out, dry runs, safety people etc. There will typically be at least 3 or 4 helicopter pilots on scene with radios watching from different angles, and the outcome of all maneuvers is never seriously in doubt.

So yes, this is not the kind of work just anyone gets into. Long gone are the days of the Dorcey Wingo incident. (Google is your friend if you are so inclined.

India Four Two

7th Jan 2023, 23:43

Well, I had to look!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident

Flugzeug A

8th Jan 2023, 00:01

When I saw the thread title , I thought it would be a tourist flight pilot being daft & caught on a passenger’s phone.
On watching the video but without seeing further comments , it was evident it wasn’t that , it was someone good at his job , ‘just’ doing what he’s paid for.
Fascinating to see the degree of control & coordination that goes into the flying.
I’m no pilot but I doff my hat to those of you who do this kind of thing.

Hot and Hi

8th Jan 2023, 07:34

Film work included […] US sleeping tablet advert tracking in at dusk to a high rise apartment, very similar to the OP query, used a twin with SE capability.
Strange, the footage from the MTV Music Awards more looks like rather unspectacular drone footage. And certainly could have been taken by drone without a problem. The only exception is the R44 that is in frame on one or two occasions, shown in high hover just outside the balcony. Last time I checked, my R 44 was *not* a twin with SE capabilities ;-).

Not that the engine knows it is night, close to a structure, OGE, and over hostile terrain. It will just continue running. Just saying.

spangzilla

8th Jan 2023, 11:56

Strange, the footage from the MTV Music Awards more looks like rather unspectacular drone footage. And certainly could have been taken by drone without a problem. The only exception is the R44 that is in frame on one or two occasions, shown in high hover just outside the balcony. Last time I checked, my R 44 was *not* a twin with SE capabilities ;-).

Not that the engine knows it is night, close to a structure, OGE, and over hostile terrain. It will just continue running. Just saying.

Looks like the R44 is providing a spotlight which might not be flyable on a drone

The footage could have been taken by a drone, but I'm assuming that helicopters and drones flying together is not done for obvious reasons

(also, helicopters add more spectacle, including noise)

Bravo73

8th Jan 2023, 14:40

Strange, the footage from the MTV Music Awards more looks like rather unspectacular drone footage. And certainly could have been taken by drone without a problem.

Most of the aerial shots have been taken from the AS350. It can be seen briefly in a couple of shots and the red anti-col can be seen reflecting off the side of the building during a couple of the closer shots.

The R44 seems to be solely there to shine it’s landing light on the stage.

Last time I checked, my R 44 was *not* a twin with SE capabilities ;-).

The FAA is a very different regulatory body to CASA.

MikeNYC

10th Jan 2023, 22:42

Strange, the footage from the MTV Music Awards more looks like rather unspectacular drone footage. And certainly could have been taken by drone without a problem.

Comment from someone with no experience in aerial filming, or the limitations drones have. You're talking about sustained flight at 1,100ft AGL in very turbulent air carrying a 25lb+ camera package with downlink, in an extraordinarily RF-hostile environment, with dynamic moves, in close proximity to structures, at the edge of Class B airspace. A helicopter was absolutely the right tool for this flight.

Squawk7700

11th Jan 2023, 04:42

LOOK CLOSELY and you will see the film set on the balcony complete with overly large boom microphone.

That's why he's doing the same thing over and over... getting the perfect shot.

Lonewolf_50

11th Jan 2023, 14:25

Very low time PPL(H), An honorable rotary wing aviator it is. :ok::}
@Gordy: thanks for the info based on professional relationship.

jimjim1

12th Jan 2023, 07:08

Well, I had to look!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident

Twilight zone indeed.

Illegal child actors, working illegally at night (even if they had been legal child actors), and the star, died when the film crew shot down their own helicopter.

"the detonation of debris-laden high temperature special effects explosions too near to a low-flying helicopter"

"Filming accidents fell by 69.6-percent between 1982 and 1986, although there were still six deaths on sets."

mickjoebill

16th Jan 2023, 04:23

In respect to the perceived risk to bystanders of aerial filming....
During the period from 2000 to 2013, excluding war zones, aerial filming was the most dangerous activity for media workers, more died or were seriously injured worldwide in helicopters than by all other filming endeavours and assignments, combined.

However, during this 14 year period only one innocent bystander was reported injured in a aerial filming or photography crash.

So whilst a terrible toll was endured by pilots and media workers, the public were unscathed.

This record was sadly broken when a news helicopter crashed on takeoff from the roof of building in Seattle in 2014 and seriously injured two members of the public.

Stabilised cameras, use of higher speed frame rates and of course drones, have bought about a significant reduction in aerial filming accidents.

Mjb

Avv

16th Jan 2023, 04:40

In respect to the perceived risk to bystanders of aerial filming....
...
Stabilised cameras, use of higher speed frame rates and of course drones, have bought about a significant reduction in aerial filming accidents.
Mjb

So I can see how stabilised cameras help, the platform doesn't need to be so close to the action to get clear footage but what about the higher speed frame rates? not so obvious why that should help reduce accidents.

Westwings

4th Mar 2023, 21:35

Just found another video, this time from the balcony

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIMN-sy1HeI

Dave Sharpe

6th Mar 2023, 18:12

It’s very refreshing to see that this post has not descended into the usual trash a Robinson one ….as often happens on here …nothing but total admiration for the R44pilot involved and the Filming Heli doing the pedal turns around the stage ….the Well known UK Training Robinson Instructor from Peterborough Conington taught all his students to to pedal turns very accurately - this video sets a new standard for students to aim for and with a reason …and thanks for the members who posted the night and daylight prep shots…..

Bravo73

6th Mar 2023, 19:04

…nothing but total admiration for the R44pilot involved

Huh? :confused:

Bksmithca

7th Mar 2023, 05:51

nothing but total admiration for the R44 pilot involved and the Filming Heli doing the pedal turns around the stage\
From the two videos that have been posted explain to me what the R44 was even there for? Another object for the Filming Helicopter to have to keep track of?