Cessna 150A Noseover on Santa Monica Beach

[jeepjeep]

A Cessna 150A with two occupants nosed over during a forced landing to the beach at Santa Monica, California on 22 Dec 2022. Shortly after takeoff, the pilot requested a return to Santa Monica Airport citing power loss from a rough running engine. Subsequently, the pilot told the tower he could not make the airport and was landing on the beach. The aircraft landed in shallow breakers avoiding any ground casualties. The pilot was injured and the passenger died of injuries sustained in the accident.

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[spornrad]

No flaps? Would prefer to touch down with min speed. However, a beach full of people is a nightmare for a dead stick landing, maybe he had no option to flare without hitting somebody.

[ATC Watcher]

Looking at the video, I think he planned for the hard sand a bit more to the left but as you can see some people incl a child prevented that , he touch down in water instead and went over, No flaps , well, to get best glide you keep flaps up as long as you can only when sure of the touch down spot you put them down , why ? stress, distracted, by people on the ground, paniqued pax, so many possibilities.. .. We were not in that cokcpit. Sad the pax did not make it , This accident was really survivable with a 4 points seatbelt....

[Pilot DAR]

This accident was really survivable with a 4 points seatbelt....

'Sure looks like it, assuming that the shoulder harnesses were being worn...

to get best glide you keep flaps up as long as you can only when sure of the touch down spot you put them down

Yes, though that older model of the 150 probably has manual flaps, giving the advantage that you can extend full flaps very quickly at the last moment.

It was a compromise forced landing situation at best, and good on the pilot preventing any risk to the public!

[FUMR]

Regarding the passenger, the fact he was 90 years old may have been a factor in his not surviving. That's quite a deceleration when impacting the water.

[Maoraigh1]

Question: Would it be safer to ditch in water just off the beach??
(This is an accident scenario that could happen to me.)

[ATC Watcher]

'Sure looks like it, assuming that the shoulder harnesses were being worn...
if there was some , i have rented old 150s and 172s in the US that only had 2 points seatbelts . They came like this at the time it seems and the current owners did not want to pay for the modification.
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[avionimc]

N7032X, a Cessna 150A
According to some first hand rumors, the plane did have shoulder harnesses installed, and they were used. The pax passed due to a cardiac arrest or event; the pilot only suffered minor injuries or bruises.

[ATC Watcher]

Question: Would it be safer to ditch in water just off the beach??
(This is an accident scenario that could happen to me.)
Beach .my former aeroclub was located besides the sea and we all got good ditching briefings .
2 main reasons : help will come faster and if tidal , the hard sand ahead of the seawater line may ( emphasis on may ) prevent a nose over which is almost a certainty in water , even in very shallow water as we see here . Soft sand might work especially if you have a retractable gear and can store the prop horizontal. the gear will probably rip off but you are likely to survive and even if you flip over you will not drown .

[ATC Watcher]

N7032X, a Cessna 150A
According to some first hand rumors, the plane did have shoulder harnesses installed, and they were used. The pax passed due to a cardiac arrest or event; the pilot only suffered minor injuries or bruises.
did not know thanks . So he did not die because if injuries caused by the crash itself but basically of old age :)

[punkalouver]

I do like the beach idea as I don’t like being upside down in the water.

But as a floatplane pilot, I have taken what is known as the ‘Dunk Course’. Something that is now mandatory in Canada for commercial floatplane pilots. It has a setup in a pool designed to simulate an aircraft cockpit which flips you upside down and then you do your escape procedure.

One thing about flipping over on a beach rather than water that I wonder about is the possibility of the harder impact on the beach making fuselage deformation more likely with a more likely chance of a jammed door. Definitely a good idea to open the doors for the touchdown.

Another advantage of being upside down in a water-filled cabin is that undoing your seatbelt may mean that you won’t be as likely to fall onto your head when the seatbelt is released.

One note on seatbelts in upside down aircraft. If by chance the buckle has somehow been done up with it facing the wrong way(release toward the body) as can happen with a passenger who is not familiar with its operation, it can be impossible to release when one’s body weight is against it while upside down. This situation did occur and can make a timely rescue extremely difficult in a situation where full or partial submerging in water increases risk.

[ATC Watcher]

Fully agree . I did not go further into our ditching briefings but if you must land in the sea , it is always parallel to the waves ( meaning generally full cross wind ) take off your shoes ,open the door(s) ( or the canopy ) and stick one shoe in between to prevent jamming and to let water in . Wings absolutely level, if 2 blades prop , prop horizontal ( using bursts of starter ) fly 1-2.m above water , full flaps and slowly let speed drop by itself until just before stall . Do not force stall, let it sink . If you can , hand on release seat belts knob and release asap after the first shock.
Now that said it is pure theory which you likely will forget parts of it in an emergency .

There was a very good long article published ( unfortunately only in French afaik) a couple of years ago by the pilot of a C 182 ditching after an engine failure in the Mediterranean a few minutes after departure from Ajaccio where he almost drown because he forgot the seat belt release , He was saved by his wife , who was a stewardess and remembered the drill .the guy was an experienced B 777 pilot .
His whole story is very , very educative,

[WideScreen]

.... take off your shoes......
Actually, maybe unless wearing heavy army boots or so, I seriously suggest keeping your shoes on. You need something sturdy on your feed, in case you need body-forces to enforce "something", let alone, protect your feet against all sharp metal in and around the foot well. Most shoes "float" nowadays, so won't impact your floating (significantly). Not to say, when you land in water where you simply can stand, no need for shoes removal for the non-float-issue.

[simmple]

Genuine question. Are you better opening the door then latching the handle again whilst open.
My experience suggests if not the door will slam shut again if you just unlatch it.
Wedging it open with something sounds a good plan but depending where you are and for reasons given above, shoes?

[Pilot DAR]

For my experience with Cessnas, if you have hit so hard to deform the fuselage to the point where the door cannot be opened, you probably did not survive. My friend crashed his 150 so hard, that it stopped in less than a foot. The coroner later told us that he had experienced a 200G stop. I opened the door, and another firefighter opened the other door with no difficulty during the rescue attempt. This is not an argument against popping the doors open before crash landing/ditching (as some POH's say to do), but rather a suggestion not to fixate on it. Some of the Cessna doors will re latch if pushed closed. If the Cessna you're flying has an "open/close/latch" position, and you want to keep it opened for the crash, after it is opened a little, move the lever back to "latch" and if will not latch closed again when pushed.

Know your seat belts. A very few [now] Cessna still have the shoulder harness which clips over a pin on the lap belt tang, which is left to right reversed. Thus, undoing the lap belt leaves the shoulder harness to remaining lap belt still connected diagonally across your torso. In this case, undoing the lap belt which hanging will not release the shoulder harness, and you're not getting out, unless you wriggle out, or cut the belt. I have found a few errant Cessnas like this over the decades, and referred them to maintenance before flight to have the belts corrected. The very oldest Cessnas had metal to fabric lap belts, which would not release under load, or when wet. These have been AD'd out, and I haven't seen one in decades. But if you see one of these, refuse the plane until it's corrected.

If you're ditching, do so parallel to the swells, regardless of the wave and wind direction. If you're flying such that ditching is a possibility, you should be noting the swell direction as you would note forced landing areas. You want to know that before you need it! And, note the compass heading to be flying to be parallel to the swells, as you may not have any other [shore] visual reference to do it. If the waves are the height of swells, you should not be flying single engine there. The land equivalent is hitting a bump on the runway (which, yes, could be damagingly large), compared to flying into a shallow hill. The plane may push through the wave, but it will come to a sudden stop in the swell.

Always be actually wearing your lifejacket, and if temperatures dictate, an immersion suit. "Having it aboard" is totally useless if you're not wearing it. If you doubt this, take the dunker course, and you won't doubt it after that! Wearing my lifejacket literally saved my life.

Take the dunker course, it's way fun, and confidence building. My experience having taken the dunker course, and teaching water rescue for years was a major factor in my own survival after a water crash.

[jeepjeep]

Actually, maybe unless wearing heavy army boots or so, I seriously suggest keeping your shoes on. You need something sturdy on your feed, in case you need body-forces to enforce "something", let alone, protect your feet against all sharp metal in and around the foot well. Most shoes "float" nowadays, so won't impact your floating (significantly). Not to say, when you land in water where you simply can stand, no need for shoes removal for the non-float-issue.

I would opt for shoes off in a water landing. Purpose is to maximize power of your swimming kick. Especially if you end up in water with arm/torso injuries etc your ability to kick can make the difference between getting regular breaths of air vs gulping water drowning in a matter of seconds. For similar reasons, I would prefer to shed overclothes.

[ATC Watcher]

As I said before getting shoes off main benefits on a water ditching ,are keeping the door(s) unlocked preventing jamming and letting water in case inverted as water pressure prevents it to open . Extra benefit in case unconscious : it helps other people to get you out without having to figure out how to unlock the door or slide the canopy .
those 3,benefits alone ( besides faster swimming ) far outweighs anything else .such as eventual minor injuries on foots on metal bits …

But seat belts releases is the one to watch for and train as they are the killer ones . As Pilot DAR said some do not open easily or even not at all under pressure .if you fly in one of those aircraft then carrying a seat belt cutter ( 10 eur or $) in any car accessory shop would be my advice .

[Pilot DAR]

Especially if you end up in water with arm/torso injuries etc your ability to kick can make the difference between getting regular breaths of air vs gulping water drowning in a matter of seconds.

Well... speaking as someone who has been in exactly that situation, along with two broken legs, and a broken back, I can say that it was wearing a lifejacket which saved my life, and made rescuing me possible. Kicking to swim wasn't really going to happen, I was lucky to hold onto a sinking plane while I manually inflated my lifejacket. If you have the forethought to remove shoes before a ditching, much better to have the fore fore thought to wear the lifejacket. Then, leaving your shoes on until you can decide in the water what you'd like to do will be a practical possibility. I'd say that for most of us, it's pretty uncommon to be overflying water warm enough to "swim" in for any length of time nor distance, so planning to be found floating alive is your better plan. If you, or the person(s) in the plan with you were injured, it's a lot easier to help them by inflating the lifejacket they are already wearing for them, than trying to swim to keep both of you afloat.

I have recovered dozens of wrecks, and been in one. the circumstances of every one was different. I learned from all of them. Happily, the sum of what I learned prior to mine was just enough to keep me alive when my student splashed us. Every time I plan to overfly, or land on, water, I consider the possible circumstances and variations, and plan accordingly - there is no perfect rule - other than to wear your lifejacket.

[WideScreen]

As I said before getting shoes off main benefits on a water ditching ,are keeping the door(s) unlocked preventing jamming and letting water in case inverted as water pressure prevents it to open . Extra benefit in case unconscious : it helps other people to get you out without having to figure out how to unlock the door or slide the canopy .
those 3,benefits alone ( besides faster swimming ) far outweighs anything else .such as eventual minor injuries on foots on metal bits …

But seat belts releases is the one to watch for and train as they are the killer ones . As Pilot DAR said some do not open easily or even not at all under pressure .if you fly in one of those aircraft then carrying a seat belt cutter ( 10 eur or $) in any car accessory shop would be my advice .
When worried to keep the door further open than just ajar, maybe use the headset at the front end of the door (thinking in low-end Cessna types), one cup inside, one cup outside and the headband above the upper door hinge. Can be done in 10 seconds, whereas taking off your shoes can easily be 2x 1 minute fiddling with a yoke in front of you, especially for those who aren't 18 years old any longer, when you only have 60 seconds before your crash, and you have more serious things to worry about.

[ATC Watcher]

When worried to keep the door further open than just ajar, maybe use the headset at the front end of the door (thinking in low-end Cessna types), one cup inside, one cup outside and the headband above the upper door hinge. Can be done in 10 seconds, whereas taking off your shoes can easily be 2x 1 minute fiddling with a yoke in front of you, especially for those who aren't 18 years old any longer, when you only have 60 seconds before your crash, and you have more serious things to worry about.
Yes, agree , anything to keep the door a few cm ajar will do . When we got those briefings we were all young so taking out a shoe was seconds and you can train and memorize the drill as everyone wears shoes. But indeed anything firm enough to sustain the impact shock will do, , you just have to know what it is and where it is located in a few seconds. I get the age factor though , do not think of that . The pax here was 90. But OK, we were not the PIC.
BTW this is why I hate flying PA28 over water with pax . Getting out on the right side side with only one door always causes me a problem...

@Pilot DAR : speaking as someone who has been in exactly that situation, Then we should listen to you with utmost respect . I never ditched, I only got the briefings and speak here from those briefings experience only . So I will stop here.

That said, I have however crashed a few times in my GA flying carreer , and one time with serious injuries. with 15 seconds or so to decide where to put the aircraft down in mountains. And despite my knowledge , I did not do everything according to the briefings . but if you had asked me before I would have assured you I would. .. Listening to safety presentations / sitting at home in front of a PC or being in a cockpit during an emergency are 2 very different things. Startle effect + stress is not easy to reproduce.

[Pilot DAR]

And despite my knowledge , I did not do everything according to the briefings

That's why they are briefings, situations are not always as the briefing covers, and there is not always time. Brief to keep your mind agile, then use your agile mind to make the best decisions that time and circumstance permit. If everything were perfect, a safety briefing would not be necessary.

But line things up for your best outcome as early in the [pre] flight as possible.

[Maoraigh1]

I don't get shoes restricting swimming. You're going to swim on your back when wearing an inflated lifejacket. Never ditched, never did dunker course. But I could get into a capsized kayak, wearing a lifejacket and trainers, and roll it upright - when not tired and in calm water. (No wetsuit, Scottish spring sea temp, age till ~50. Demo at end of canoe session.)

[WideScreen]

I don't get shoes restricting swimming. .....
It does increase drag in the glide and subsequent preparation for the accelerate/stroke phase, effectively reducing the speed buildup from the swim stroke. But that largely counts when you want to swim distances, vs. just stay afloat, stationary.

I seriously suggest keeping your shoes on in preparation of a crash landing on water to protect your feet, unless you are wearing really heavy shoes/boots. IF you escaped unharmed and decide to swim ashore, you can always remove your shoes. The human body floats with the head sufficiently above the water, when you keep other body parts in the water, so yeah, opportunities to remove your shoes.

[cncpc]

Question: Would it be safer to ditch in water just off the beach??
(This is an accident scenario that could happen to me.)
I agree with the poster above that the pilot likely intended to touch down on the hard wet sand. If you mean safer for humans, I think any of us would take that sand. Whether it is "safer" involves risk to people on the beach and in the water.

This was just unfortunate in the tumbling sequence. It had the potential for neck damage, and blunt force trauma without shoulder restraints. Not that great a situation for a 90 year old gentleman. The last seconds would have went better with a firm tail plant in the water when there was still elevator effectiveness to do that. Can't fault the guy for trying to make the sand, though.

[cncpc]

When I was younger, I ditched a 172 with three passengers aboard after an engine failure about 3 back for the right runway at SFO. We were over the Bay and the only thing on land that appeared to offer a hundred yards or so of flat ground was the old San Mateo landfill site just east of Coyote Point. The wind was 23 knots out of the west. The touchdown area was a road among large rubbish piles. We were too low to get around into wind and had to take the tailwind. On short final to what might have been a fatal end, a truck pulled right in front of us onto the road. I used some of the considerably excess airspeed to zoom up till the prop stopped and then lowered the nose, shifted a bit left and bled off the airspeed as we headed for a small boat in the water. I had never had a lesson or briefing on ditching, but I had done a little investigation myself and I remembered that the ideal touchdown is tail first and hold it in if you can, to keep it from bouncing up and pitching the nose down.

We did the full drill. Both doors jammed open with items of clothing. Hands on seatbelt clasps, etc. We splashed down, with a 23 knot tailwind, close enough to the boat to splash water on the occupants. I went (fell) through the windshield. I broke water about ten feet from the aircraft and saw it had only gone onto its nose. The passengers were climbing out, one of them with his luggage. The three of them just changed their spots to stay dry as the aircraft slowly blew over onto its back. They ended up standing on the belly with water just around their ankles. I was treading water and holding onto a strut. A Coast Guard helicopter came from the airport, set up in a hover about 100 feet away, with a frogman in the door holding a blackboard asking if anyone was hurt. They slowly moved sideways towards us, but the rotor wash blew one guy into the water beside me and we waved them off and the three of them went the 75 yards to shore in two trips in the boat. The boat came back and I just held onto the transom, avoided the prop, and got a tow to shore.

What level of experience do you have to have to be able to pull that off? I had just gotten my PPL at Langley the week before. I had 53 hours total time, and under 25 PIC. I know we are all alive because some truck driver didn't check for aircraft on final for the dump.

I do want to make some short observations. Shoes? There is a long list of things more important than your shoes. You open the doors on all forced landings, not just water. Yes, it is because of the potential for airframe bending and not being able to exit, or rescuers not being able to get in to assist you. What the poster above said is good advice, pull the handle back on the open door so the bolt protrudes fully out. That will stop any closure. The most important thing is that the door is open. If it is open, it will stay open.

I post at the Canadian site as well and I see some of our good posters over here. Over there, we have had some discussions about engine failure/forced landing. The simple truth is that if you have lost power and are coming to earth somewhere not in your plans, remember this. If you arrive at the ground/water in the landing attitude, about five knots above stall, and touch down on land or sea under control at minimum flying speed, and you do not hit something that takes you from 50 mph to zero instantly, you will not be killed. Your passengers will not be killed. You will probably not even be injured. Most of you will have done your forced landing practices over nice green fields. There are some beauties there between Cloverdale and White Rock. But, you can end up doing your first forced landing in the ocean.

It is sad that the older gentleman passed.

[visibility3miles]

I have never heard of putting shoes in a door to keep it propped open, but I recall two times when passengers (new flyers) left the trailing edge of their long seatbelt hanging out the door when they closed it.

The loud slapping noise during the pre-flight run up alerted me to the problem, so I had them open the door and bring in the extra bit of belt.

Presumably that could be something else you could put out the door to keep it from relatching in an emergency.

I personally can’t imagine reaching down and fiddling with my shoes if I was trying to pay close attention to landing in an emergency situation.

After all, if you were driving a car, even on a wide empty highway, would you ever take your eyes off the road long enough to remove your shoes in a manner that you could maintain hold of them and stick them in the door? Not just kick them off, but be able to track them down and move them elsewhere?

I suppose it depends on how much time you have between the time you know you will make an emergency landing and the time that you land.

[punkalouver]

I have never heard of putting shoes in a door to keep it propped open, but I recall two times when passengers (new flyers) left the trailing edge of their long seatbelt hanging out the door when they closed it.

The loud slapping noise during the pre-flight run up alerted me to the problem, so I had them open the door and bring in the extra bit of belt.

Presumably that could be something else you could put out the door to keep it from relatching in an emergency.


While skeptical about the shoe thing, a lot of doors can latch with the seat belt hanging out.

[ATC Watcher]

While skeptical about the shoe thing, a lot of doors can latch with the seat belt hanging out.
Absolutely, plus you definitively do not want to release your belts before impact.:rolleyes:
Once again , I am not arguing you must use your shoes, it is just what I have learned to do years ago and it made sense. especially for the types we used in my club which were almost exclusively with sliding canopy types ( Cap10, Robins DR400s, etc.) all very prone to jamming after a shock.
It is also an easy memory item in an emergency , and even today when I fly over water I always leave my left shoe unlatched for that eventuality.. Old habit , maybe a good luck charm as well, it worked well so far :)

[Pilot DAR]

When I ride as a passenger in an airliner, I'm always concerned for those passengers who take their seats, and remove their shoes before even leaving the gate. In the most rare of circumstances where a rapid cabin exit is necessary, they probably won't have time and agility to put them back on. That could mean running through debris/fuel to get away from the plane. For similar reasons I would not remove my shoes at all, even in the water. I wore my lifejacket, shoes will not impede my swimming, as much as I'd want them when I reached dry ground. If you're flying a type where door/canopy jamming is a concern, then, like planning by wearing a lifejacket, take something expendable along to hold open the canopy should it be required - I'm sure that the ubiquitous airplane rag could be well suited to that task.

[megan]

For similar reasons I would not remove my shoes at all, even in the waterGood post DAR, as anyone who had to walk over beds of wild mussels barefoot to get to dry land will tell you, painful, and lacerated feet being the result, don't ask how I know.

Airline passengers don't dress with survival in mind, thongs (foot ware type, not the other), shorts, singlets, nylon.


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[IFMU]

It's been a while but I think we did dunker training with shoes on.

[Pilot DAR]

When I did my dunker training, the instructor told us that he had trained the local police air unit crews the day before. They all thought they were awesome in the water, but not one could swim the length of the pool. The service boots were a factor, but he suspected that the simulated gun belt was the real problem. So, shoes rather than police boots, and yes, you can drop the gunbelt! That said, had they been wearing a lifejacket......

[avionimc]

Probably why Twin Otter pilots in the Maldives are working barefoot
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/barefoot-pilots-maldives-180952393/#:~:text=A%20remote%20island%20nation%20becomes%20a%20finish ing%20school%20for%20floatplane%20pilots.&text=To%20fly%20passengers%20from%20island,be%20seen%20from% 20the%20cockpit

[megan]

Some scenic floatplane operators in Oz are known to fly bare foot also, had questions asked of me by one passenger, never dabbled in floating fixed wing myself.

[Pilot DAR]

The Maldives are a rather idyllic float flying environment, so variations on the norms seem to work there. As for footwear, it's 99% sure that the next thing you're going to step on will either be beautiful sand or a smooth dock, and stepping into warm water at a island is likely. When I flew there for a few flights (and wore shoes), I was overdressed! The operators there have things down to a fine art, and are crewed very well. That is one of the few exceptions to the rule - wear personal protective equipment, and keep it on!

I do have a pilot friend who sank a Caravan there. He said he just climbed on top, and waited to be rescued!

[NutLoose]

On something like a Cessna 172 / 182 it would make total sense to unlatch the door, because in my eyes the design is poor, if the internal door lever is pushed down flat to the armrest to lock the door, it also locks the external handle meaning outside assistance cannot physically open it.
If the door is cracked open and the internal lever is then put in the locked flush position, if memory serves me correctly that should prevent the door from physically shutting as the latching arm will be protruding.
If you fly them try it... it may come in handy one day.