Borderforce strike non event?

[willy wombat]

I don’t know how it’s played out elsewhere but my daughter landed at Gatwick from Bali via Dubai this morning and said she’s never got through LGW immigration so fast. Lots of soldiers and naval ratings directing anyone who didn’t know what to do and no queues. BBC News inferviewed passengers arriving at LHR T5 who also consistently said no queues, no problem. But of course BBC in its summary still said “problems at airports”. Frankly I’ve always said it’s normally no problem going anywhere with a British Passport other than trying to get back into the UK.

[Buster the Bear]

Would you expect anything else from the British Bashing Corporation? Hardly going to say that contingency measures generally worked well.

[BA318]

I arrived at LHR T5 this morning. Not a single queue. Every single desk was manned and had a friendly soldier on duty. Was probably the best experience I’ve had at LHR and I commuted through there weekly for 5 of the past 6 years.

[DaveReidUK]

I guess we'll never know how many people were waved through today who would have had rather more scrutiny on a normal day.

[BA318]

I guess we'll never know how many people were waved through today who would have had rather more scrutiny on a normal day.

Considering 40,000+ people have arrived without any scrutiny so far this year down in Dover I don’t think it will matter much in the grand scheme of things. And the rest of us got a pleasant experience for once.

[Asturias56]

Of course this is the point - Border Force can pick up most of the really dangerous folk from the passenger lists they get in advance a lot of the visible security is worthless

[Rutan16]

Of course this is the point - Border Force can pick up most of the really dangerous folk from the passenger lists they get in advance a lot of the visible security is worthless

Agreed the Border agencies know in advance EVERYONE entering via an official point And along with other agencies abroad, prior records AND like it or not profiling are armed to deal with those of suspicion

Generally mum and dad and four kids from Lanzarote aren’t likely to be harbouring ill intent though Sharron from Tenerife who happened on a previous flight to come in from South America might !

Millions of millions of entrants do NOT require the third degree and as you say it’s largely bravado.

Sooner immigration and police be working on the streets around dodgy “businesses” such as nail bars/car wash/ remains of the rag trade and yes some food outlets where criminals are exploiting people.

[davidjohnson6]

If someone flies with fake documentation or dubious luggage from Venezuela to Tenerife, and straight onto London a few hours later, they are stupid and will be caught.

Those who want to fly the route and are doing properly naughty stuff will likely cover their tracks a little better - at which point you do need people who are not just going to compare a photo on a chip with the person standing next to them.

Even profiling at immigration doesn't always work. I've been immensely relieved sometimes when entering other countries to be rubber stamped due to having an apparently low risk automated profile, when I know a more thorough look at my passport stamps would have picked up some quite concerning or unusual info. Inquisitive, suspicious, and highly assertive immigration staff are necessary... and those that have made the effort have (rightfully) chosen to ask me more probing questions. People in uniform who rubber stamp blindly are not sufficient.

[BA318]

If someone flies with fake documentation or dubious luggage from Venezuela to Tenerife, and straight onto London a few hours later, they are stupid and will be caught.

Those who want to fly the route and are doing properly naughty stuff will likely cover their tracks a little better - at which point you do need people who are not just going to compare a photo on a chip with the person standing next to them.

Even profiling at immigration doesn't always work. I've been immensely relieved sometimes when entering other countries to be rubber stamped due to having an apparently low risk automated profile, when I know a more thorough look at my passport stamps would have picked up some quite concerning or unusual info. Inquisitive, suspicious, and highly assertive immigration staff are necessary... and those that have made the effort have (rightfully) chosen to ask me more probing questions. People in uniform who rubber stamp blindly are not sufficient.

Part of the problem here is that people are assuming the soldiers are not checking. I don’t think that’s the case. While they might not know, the office checking us did call for a supervisor and asked questions to confirm he was correct.

There is an assumption here that a slow system with queues is performing checks. While the reality perhaps is that the slow system is because there is only one desk open while during the strike all the desks are open hence moving much faster. The level of scrutiny is likely similar although the soldier was at least polite unlike most BF staff I’ve encountered.

There have been multiple occasions when I’ve arrived (especially during coronavirus) when BF officials have incorrectly claimed things and I’ve needed to argue and defend my position. For example, those who traveled weekly for work were exempt from the travel bans and testing/quarantine restrictions early on during the pandemic. BF officials on multiple instances told me I needed to isolate etc when I didn’t and I then had to spend time waiting for the officer in charge to correct them and explain I had actually followed the law and was correct. So we also shouldn’t just assume that BF staff correctly interpret rules and regulations without error.

[Rutan16]

Part of the problem here is that people are assuming the soldiers are not checking. I don’t think that’s the case. While they might not know, the office checking us did call for a supervisor and asked questions to confirm he was correct.

There is an assumption here that a slow system with queues is performing checks. While the reality perhaps is that the slow system is because there is only one desk open while during the strike all the desks are open hence moving much faster. The level of scrutiny is likely similar although the soldier was at least polite unlike most BF staff I’ve encountered.

There have been multiple occasions when I’ve arrived (especially during coronavirus) when BF officials have incorrectly claimed things and I’ve needed to argue and defend my position. For example, those who traveled weekly for work were exempt from the travel bans and testing/quarantine restrictions early on during the pandemic. BF officials on multiple instances told me I needed to isolate etc when I didn’t and I then had to spend time waiting for the officer in charge to correct them and explain I had actually followed the law and was correct. So we also shouldn’t just assume that BF staff correctly interpret rules and regulations without error.

The military are not acting alone the home office and management and other intelligence agencies REMAIN IN control

[Rutan16]

Considering 40,000+ people have arrived without any scrutiny so far this year down in Dover I don’t think it will matter much in the grand scheme of things. And the rest of us got a pleasant experience for once.

Actually those 40,000 that were intercepted have very much been subject to extensive scrutiny on entering without documentation.

[HOVIS]

Considering 40,000+ people have arrived without any scrutiny so far this year down in Dover I don’t think it will matter much in the grand scheme of things. And the rest of us got a pleasant experience for once.
Congratulations. Most idiotic comment so far today. 🙄
Those 40,000 have not only been scrutinised but, documented and in the main, detained.

But I'm sure you knew that.

[BA318]

Congratulations. Most idiotic comment so far today. 🙄
Those 40,000 have not only been scrutinised but, documented and in the main, detained.

But I'm sure you knew that.

Most are not detained. If the rules are followed, they should be registered within 24hrs and then usually moved to hotels or other accommodation. And you can’t really do much scrutiny on someone you know nothing about. Most people arriving in such a way don’t have all their paperwork in perfect order if any at all.

They are not processed nor scrutinised until their cases are examined. Right now the UK operates with a huge backlog with the Home Office reporting it takes on average one to three years to process an application. https://righttoremain.org.uk/what-is-causing-the-huge-home-office-delay-in-processing-asylum-claims/

This wasn’t some nasty far right post more a critique of a shambolic system.

There is also a reported 647,000 unregistered illegal migrants (Asylum is not illegal) in the UK so those are people in British society without any right or checks carried out according to a GLA report. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/

[Rutan16]

Most are not detained. If the rules are followed, they should be registered within 24hrs and then usually moved to hotels or other accommodation. And you can’t really do much scrutiny on someone you know nothing about. Most people arriving in such a way don’t have all their paperwork in perfect order if any at all.

They are not processed nor scrutinised until their cases are examined. Right now the UK operates with a huge backlog with the Home Office reporting it takes on average one to three years to process an application. https://righttoremain.org.uk/what-is-causing-the-huge-home-office-delay-in-processing-asylum-claims/

This wasn’t some nasty far right post more a critique of a shambolic system.

There is also a reported 647,000 unregistered illegal migrants (Asylum is not illegal) in the UK so those are people in British society without any right or checks carried out according to a GLA report. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/irregular-migration-in-the-uk/

Much of the back log is a direct result of twelve years of frustration by the current administration ( even prior to the b word and ending of freedom of movement)
Prior labour government was removing almost thirty thousand failed claimants EVERY YEAR however that doesn’t go with the current agenda does it .
Economic migrants ( unauthorised) can readily be removed however you do know the problem of removals often lies with the embassies and high commissions ( once an identify has been established) . Several countries including Pakistan and Nigeria are notorious for delay and obfuscation in the issuance of temporary travel papers, more so than the so called leftie lawyers and even more particularly sub Saharan countries require discussions with embassies in Paris and Brussels as they don’t have full commissions in London !

Ever been in Croydon on a Monday with queues of hundreds outside the immigration office reporting on their presence each week.

Ever considered how YOU would live on £47 per week and be prevented from working whilst your claims were processed .

Ever considered just because the home office/Serco has provided temporary accommodation in a hotel complex where you ARE monitored and that THE FOOD BUDGET IS UNDER £3 per day ( not the a l’a carte nonsense) is even humane .

Also another thing the government fail to tell people is those claiming asylum protections funding can be recovered from the UN .

The whole issue is complex yet the current system ( created by THIS administration is certainly broken and has a deliberate and malicious hole in the logic acknowledged by none other the Sue Ellen under parliamentary scrutiny. YOU NEED TO BE ON British soil to begin your claim unless you are Afghani, Syrian, from Hong Kong or Ukraine .

She couldn’t answer how else you could enter : the “ Legal and safe routes “ DON’T EXIST.

Syrians may make claims from Jordan and Lebanese camps run by the UN ( except if you are a British born young woman 😉)
Certain Afghani people that worked with UK forces ( May be) able to make a claim outside the UK, Hong Kongers with a BO Passport may make a claim and enter (years after Canada provided them with protection and immigration opportunities) whilst the temporary resettlement of Ukrainian refugees is probably the most complex within Europe and many more have gone elsewhere. And the funding available for those that offer accommodation is simply that of the base UC rate.
Indeed their are documented cases of many Ukrainians simply giving up and going home.

[PAXboy]

I understand another reason for the smoother than expected flow of pax is that, many carriers have canx flights due to prep for this day. Further, numerous flights from USA and Canada are canx due to the weather conditions.

[ATNotts]

Of course this is the point - Border Force can pick up most of the really dangerous folk from the passenger lists they get in advance a lot of the visible security is worthless

It may indeed be worthless, but not to the No.10 PR machine that relies on the support of the Daily Mail, Express and Telegraph readers and they want to see (to borrow a term from another thorny debate) an "American style" immigration system that was, and may still be there to inconvenience legitimate international visitors arriving in the USA.

[Asturias56]

Its interesting to compare Singapore with the USA or (increasingly) the UK - - you're actually made to feel welcome in the Lion City and lets face it - they have a much tougher actual legal regime

Trouble is all the "Border Force" with uniforms etc just gives some people an excuse to make people's life difficult

[ATNotts]

Trouble is all the "Border Force" with uniforms etc just gives some people an excuse to make people's life difficult

I actually don't mind seeing the staff uniformed at least I know with whom I am dealing. 30-odd years ago they used to be ladies and gents in sports jackets with leather patches around the elbows looking like a bunch of school teachers on secondment!! Of course in those days they were HM Immigration, rather than the more aggressive sounding "Border Force". Perhaps they have felt the need to become more unpleasant and less trusting of their fellow human beings in order to live up to this new more threating moniker.

[Mike Flynn]

It stands to reason that soldiers are more disciplined and efficient than civil servants. Imagine fighting a war with the latter.

My experience of regularly travelling through Heathrow is there are not enough E gates.

[SWBKCB]

Are there as many military working as there are Border Force on a typical shift?

[Jamesair1]

I think I read that ALL of the inspection booths are being manned, usually a fair percentage are non operational. .....that could make a huge difference....There are probably more people available to help those whose passports never seem work properly at the e-gates (often me).

[BA318]

I think I read that ALL of the inspection booths are being manned, usually a fair percentage are non operational. .....that could make a huge difference....There are probably more people available to help those whose passports never seem work properly at the e-gates (often me).

It’s also been reported far more BF staff have turned up than expected. When I arrived at LHR there were the usual 3-4 BF staff plus a soldier or two on each desk.

[GrahamO]

usually a fair percentage are non operational. .....

Agreed, however I prefer the term "not being used". The last thing the BF want is the e-gates making them redundant, so they always seem to have a lot out of action and having worked for one of the suppliers at Heathrow, the data suggested gates were simply not being used rather than being 'non-operational'. If I recall correctly, the BF liked to have staff at the gates to help out and without enough 'helpful' staff, the gates were not left to intelligent people to work them out, but were instead taken out of action.

Having travelled hundreds if not thousands of times through Dubai e-gates, there were almost never any staff to help you out at e-gates - just staff to redirect you to another gate when it wouldnt read your card and you looked helpless. And those staff were admin staff, not immigration officers so cheaper and in more plentiful supply.

[bmaviscount]

Agree this doesn't look good for the border force strike cause! The rail workers are not looking too strong either with the quality of rail operation between strikes!!

[DaveReidUK]

The rail workers are not looking too strong either with the quality of rail operation between strikes!!

Assuming that you actually mean quantity rather than quality, National Rail would appear not to agree with you:

"This is likely to affect most train companies across Britain. The rail industry is working hard to minimise the effect that this will have on services but it is inevitable that services will be cancelled or severely disrupted. It is likely that there will be a very limited service on these days with no trains at all on some routes.

Services may also start later on days following the end of the strike action."

Industrial Action on National Rail (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/industrialaction.aspx)

[Dannyboy39]

Its interesting to compare Singapore with the USA or (increasingly) the UK - - you're actually made to feel welcome in the Lion City and lets face it - they have a much tougher actual legal regime

Trouble is all the "Border Force" with uniforms etc just gives some people an excuse to make people's life difficult
I’ve flown into about 25 different airports this year as SLF. America continues to baffle me in terms of how they treat everyone as a terrorist. I flew through MIA in the summer - 10 people ahead of me in the queue as I was one of the first people to get off the plane. Still a 15 minute wait.

As a consequence of Brexit, Schengen border staff are asking far more questions and again, treating people like vermin.

Passengers don’t deserve to be treated with such disdain. Border staff worldwide need to realise they are the entry point to a country - give people a good first impression. Stop this “harsh environment” bollocks.

The best border staff I’ve cross across in the world are in Ireland, hands down. Very pleasant and will even ask how your day was and wave you through.

[Jamesair1]

Likewise in brazil...Rio de Janeiro

[ATNotts]

I’ve flown into about 25 different airports this year as SLF. America continues to baffle me in terms of how they treat everyone as a terrorist. I flew through MIA in the summer - 10 people ahead of me in the queue as I was one of the first people to get off the plane. Still a 15 minute wait.

As a consequence of Brexit, Schengen border staff are asking far more questions and again, treating people like vermin.

Passengers don’t deserve to be treated with such disdain. Border staff worldwide need to realise they are the entry point to a country - give people a good first impression. Stop this “harsh environment” bollocks.

The best border staff I’ve cross across in the world are in Ireland, hands down. Very pleasant and will even ask how your day was and wave you through.

In fairness, UKBA were treating arrivals like "vermin" since Teresa May's days at the Home Office when the Daily Mail (or similar rag) did an expose on the light touch checks they were doing at the border. Since then they've been interrogating families as though they were illegal until proven otherwise. They are probably one of the biggest wastes of public money where savings could be found easily.

Curiously since Brexit the delays entering the EU seem very small, limited to getting the passport stamped. No hassle, not stupid questions about where are going / have been none of which I feel, as a UK citizen, I should have to answer on entry to UK, and when I arrive at Eurotunnel rarely give a "complete" answer to - but I never lie! (not because I have anything to hide, but because its none of their bl00dy business!

[Dannyboy39]

In fairness, UKBA were treating arrivals like "vermin" since Teresa May's days at the Home Office when the Daily Mail (or similar rag) did an expose on the light touch checks they were doing at the border. Since then they've been interrogating families as though they were illegal until proven otherwise. They are probably one of the biggest wastes of public money where savings could be found easily.

Curiously since Brexit the delays entering the EU seem very small, limited to getting the passport stamped. No hassle, not stupid questions about where are going / have been none of which I feel, as a UK citizen, I should have to answer on entry to UK, and when I arrive at Eurotunnel rarely give a "complete" answer to - but I never lie! (not because I have anything to hide, but because its none of their bl00dy business!
Why should you have to answer to someone to re-enter your own country? From experience this year, Heathrow have definitely been better than most / all.