Time to Command?

[Carbon Life Form]

Whats the shortest youv'e heard of and conversely the longest.
I think we're close to a record here at Continental where the Regional jet has replaced a substantial amount of mainline flying
due to our weak contract, it has become a cancer on career expectations.

After fifteen years with this Airline I cannot hold a left seat on our smallest aircraft in our most junior base, I think it's a record. I stand to be corrected.

[GlueBall]

There are ex TWA pilots who have been in the rear seat and right seat for 20 years, and some who may be furloughed as AA reduces its pilot complement. Many of those former TWA pilots were pegged at the lower end of the food chain during the buyout.

[filejw]

In the late 70's early 80's it was 20 yrs or so at most large airlines in the U.S.:(

[411A]

Gotcha beat Fish...I personally stepped into a heavy jet command (B707) directly (as in no right seat), at age 30....many years ago.
And, I know of several others who have done likewise.

[Airbubba]

>>Emirates are averaging 3.2 years to command and on wide body (A330 or B777) aircraft.<<

Of course, the pay is less than F/O pay at major failing U.S. airlines and you fly 90 hours a month hard time. And you get to live in a war zone.

Actually, considered a pretty good job for Brits and Ozmates...

[BusyB]

Well that explains a lot about 411A, he really is something special and hasn't flown with any normal Captains to find out how the better ones behave! Plus of course, he doesn't need a payrise because he's always been on Captains pay. This explains so many posts of his.:D

[Whiskery]

.........only difference 'Bubba, you don't go into Chapter 11 and end up on the streets or cleaning aircraft for the rest of your career.
At least Emirates are making heaps of money and expanding - unlike most of the US airlines. To quote your goodself 'Bubba

Flight deck visits have been banned in the U.S. for many years, we've now got a surplus of pilots, can we send you some?


Alternative to the above is starting your own airline - or dreaming about it like 411A has been doing for the past two years!

[maxalt]

If Dubya invades Iraq there could be a lot of mid-east expat pilots looking for aircraft cleaning jobs.

I hope it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't rush off to that part of the world myself just now...for any money or time to command.

[Lex Akimbo]

Airbubba: ....."And you get to live in a war zone."

Dubai a 'war zone'? Surely it can't be any more dangerous than living in the US of A over the past year, can it?

You need to get out of Tennessee a bit more often, mate.

Sheeeyt.

[Carbon Life Form]

filejw

I think we all know of the career progression in the 70's and early
80's things were different in that <regulated> era with for the most part far better working conditions at most airlines.

I should have narrowed my topic to encompass career progression in the late 80's and nineties to now, and my concern <along with many others> that the regional jet is a major threat to mainline pilots worldwide, and is in fact a De Facto 'B or C' scale
replacement of higher paying jobs that most of us would like to gravitate towards.

At Continental the rug is being pulled out from underneath us, as we advance within the Airline <only due to retirements> the smaller mainline aircraft that, traditionally you would return to
to upgrade on are being replaced by the scourge of the regional jet.

[filejw]

Carbon, Economic condition dictate progression, however we have let things get out of hand with the little jets and t/p's.You need to get back to CO.pilots fly CO airplanes.Same goes for all airlines.
When I first looked at another company's a/c with NWA's name on it made me sick and it still does.:)

[Carbon Life Form]

filejw,

I never left Continental Mainline,I paid my dues at a regional carrier sixteen years ago,my point is that career advancement at the mainline is nonexistent because of the RJ
and not 9/11 or the economy. As an example we just 'started' service to Daytona Beach FL from NY,with, you guessed it Regional Jet Service subsidized by the city,supposedly we have to
'grow' this market to warrant mainline service.

I used to fly to DAB on a 727-200 and we were full all the time the market has no need to be 'grown' management is simply replacing mainline flying with low cost labour and aircraft, they will
also attempt to reduce our flying with the new three way code-share CO/DAL/NW.

When you read of Continental shrinking further it doesn't mention that the Express division has never stopped growing 15-20%
per year. If they could get awaywith it they'dbe flying the bloody
RJ's to Europe!

[411A]

Regional jets are a fact of life...get used to it.
Have those at large mainline carriers ever considered that, due to the "excessive" salary demands of ALPA, the RJ's are a way to retaliate and reduce payroll burden?
Of course not.
ALPA guys are just not very bright. Just "slightly greedy".
The mainline pilots and their union could NOT see the forest for the trees.:rolleyes:

[Carbon Life Form]

411A

My fellow pilots have never aspired to or been paid an 'excessive'
salary. As far as 'not seeing the forest for the trees' I would say that you suffer from the same affliction if you don't see the threat that the Regional Jet represents, or perhaps you are lucky enough to be above such concerns, and since it doesn't affect you we should all 'get used to it'

You have a very strange attitude for a professional pilot.

[catch 22]

Try talking to ex-Pan Am pilots who joined the great airline in the mid 60's. Many took over 20 years to become F/O's! Many never made command.

On the flip side Atlas Air in the late 90's were promoting people with NO previous jet experience to 747 Captains in 350 hours! The FAA finally steped in and demanded 500 hours on type.

[411A]

Carbon Life Form

Do you really believe that airline managements are going to sit back and allow ALPA pilots at major carriers to dictate policy?
These same management types will "farm out" as much flying as possible to associated regional carriers in order to contain costs. Expect much more of the same for the forseeable future. Institutional shareholders will expect nothing less otherwise share values and bond ratings will go into the toilet...as most have indeed done.
Ever hear of killing the goose that lays the golden egg?

[B772]

It is interesting to see the changing attitudes of pilots over the years.

33 years ago when the B747-100 replaced scores of B707's, DC8's CV700/800/900's employment opportunities dried up and some pilots disadvantaged, complained about loss of job or progression opportunity due to the introduction of bigger aircraft.

Now the pendulum has swund around and the 'bigger' aircraft are being replaced by smaller aircraft requiring creating more hours to be flown viz viz and requiring more pilots in employment.

And the complaints are still here.

Who can remember B747's Lax-Sfo-Lax and the L1011's that were ordered by PSA, I can.

I guess when the US financial system goes into meltdown and the price of gold reverts to its long term relationship with the DOW the RJ's might just be the salvation aircraft for the smarter managed carriers.

[B772]

Just stumbled upon a copy of Air Transport World from July 1998.

The cover story was "TWA Fights Back"

Interesting facts disclosed included 'In 1996, the seating average was 162 per plane, At the end of 1998 it will be 132, a decline of almost 20%.