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Lyneham Lad
13th Dec 2022, 13:49
In The Times this afternoon.

Royal Marines deployed on ‘high-risk covert operations’ in Ukraine (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a266c5be-7ad6-11ed-8486-22782b7fe87b?shareToken=531bac8ae05f92ddeb9bfd617ed48e2a)

Snippet The Royal Marines have taken part in covert operations in Ukraine, a senior general has admitted for the first time.Lieutenant General Robert Magowan said the commandos supported “discreet operations” in a “hugely sensitive environment”. He said their missions carried “a high level of political and military risk”.

Presumably the good Lieutenant General was briefed from on high to make such a pronouncement...

MPN11
13th Dec 2022, 13:54
STFU would have been appropriate.

Brewster Buffalo
13th Dec 2022, 14:00
In The Times this afternoon.

Royal Marines deployed on ‘high-risk covert operations’ in Ukraine (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a266c5be-7ad6-11ed-8486-22782b7fe87b?shareToken=531bac8ae05f92ddeb9bfd617ed48e2a)

Snippet

Presumably the good Lieutenant General was briefed from on high to make such a pronouncement...

Well not covert anymore!...

The article quoted says "The Times revealed earlier this year that British special forces were on the ground in Kyiv helping to train local troops (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sas-troops-are-training-local-forces-in-ukraine-32vs5bjzb)." and "Royal Navy spokesman said: Royal Marines were deployed to Ukraine to support the UK’s diplomatic presence in the country. They served no combat function.” so perhaps a secret revealed awhile ago..

sycamore
13th Dec 2022, 15:35
Shades of John Knott...!!

oldmansquipper
13th Dec 2022, 15:55
Ah, but Vlad doesn’t read the Times…..

ShyTorque
13th Dec 2022, 16:55
Don’t tell him, Pike!

Mr Mac
13th Dec 2022, 17:07
I think you may also find US Special Forces there as well ,as I came across some down in Jordan on R&R in March, who were a little indiscreet as to where they had been. It is hoped that the powers that be keep them away from any possible situation where in a capture situation, could evolve.

Cheers
Mr Mac

JeanKhul
13th Dec 2022, 19:53
Yes. And some of them already came back in plastic bags, or are now in a deep and muddy common grave

zrx1200r
13th Dec 2022, 20:02
Brilliant, why don't we just tell Russia exactly what the rest of the world intends to do. We could also send plans, photos from reconnaissance aircraft and an e-mail address or website. Honestly, you couldn't make it up. Matt.

Less Hair
13th Dec 2022, 20:25
It's the closest thing to officially move NATO forces into Ukraine so it very much might be intentional.

zrx1200r
13th Dec 2022, 21:29
Covert operations ? not now it's been blasted all over social media. FFS. Matt.

langleybaston
13th Dec 2022, 23:15
Go on, Lieutenant General Robert Magowan, you know you want to tell everybody who is deployed and where, and what their task is.

STFU unless you have license to spread disinformation.

DIBO
13th Dec 2022, 23:43
A Royal Navy spokesman said: “Royal Marines were deployed to Ukraine to support the UK’s diplomatic presence in the country. They served no combat function.”puts a slightly different perspective to it, doesn't it?

DaveReidUK
14th Dec 2022, 06:32
puts a slightly different perspective to it, doesn't it?

Please don't let the facts get in the way of a good story ...

falcon900
14th Dec 2022, 08:27
Self serving attention seeking from a former officer who should know better. Any vacancies for a pundit going?

_Agrajag_
14th Dec 2022, 08:49
A mate tells me that there are people around the towns close to a well-known UK training area speaking Ukrainian. Hard to keep the fact that we, along with other countries, are providing training, secret.

There's also the point that every man and his dog will have realised from the first announcement that we were sending them kit that it would be completely useless without a training package to go with it. Not sure this is really an operational security breach, really, at this stage when UK provided weapons have been very publicly seen in action in theatre (NLAW to give one prominent example).

teeteringhead
14th Dec 2022, 09:04
Agrajag

think it’s open source that Ukrainians are training in this country…..

Krystal n chips
14th Dec 2022, 09:16
A mate tells me that there are people around the towns close to a well-known UK training area speaking Ukrainian. Hard to keep the fact that we, along with other countries, are providing training, secret.

There's also the point that every man and his dog will have realised from the first announcement that we were sending them kit that it would be completely useless without a training package to go with it. Not sure this is really an operational security breach, really, at this stage when UK provided weapons have been very publicly seen in action in theatre (NLAW to give one prominent example).

Well given the fact their arrival was well publicised on MSM, it's hardly a secret they are here....after all, we can't just send them the kit with a note on the side saying " Instructions inside box. Please read the manual before use "..now can we.

Flap Track 6
14th Dec 2022, 10:06
Perhaps the idea is to feed Russian paranoia about rear area security?

Make the Russians think we've deployed our best people to roam their rear areas disguised as sheep, ready to strike their logistics tail?

Dan Gerous
14th Dec 2022, 10:20
....after all, we can't just send them the kit with a note on the side saying " Instructions inside box. Please read the manual before use "..now can we.

Correct. When did any man ever read the instructions before assembling or using anything.:)

Video Mixdown
14th Dec 2022, 10:25
Perhaps the idea is to feed Russian paranoia about rear area security?

Make the Russians think we've deployed our best people to roam their rear areas disguised as sheep, ready to strike their logistics tail?
I don't think Russian paranoia needs much feeding - it seems to colour everything they do. We should not meekly accept a Russian veto on who can and cannot be in Ukraine. It's none of their business and there's nothing they can do about it. It's about time this fact was highlighted.

Mogwi
14th Dec 2022, 10:29
we can't just send them the kit with a note on the side saying " Instructions inside box. Please read the manual before use "..now can we.

Actually that is exactly what happened in 1982 when we received LGB (before all this LBGTIX+ stuff!) conversion kits for KFF on Hermes. Spent a happy hour or two with the instructions in one hand and a spanner in the other.

Mog

Tartiflette Fan
14th Dec 2022, 10:40
A mate tells me that there are people around the towns close to a well-known UK training area speaking Ukrainian. Hard to keep the fact that we, along with other countries, are providing training, secret.

There's also the point that every man and his dog will have realised from the first announcement that we were sending them kit that it would be completely useless without a training package to go with it. Not sure this is really an operational security breach, really, at this stage when UK provided weapons have been very publicly seen in action in theatre (NLAW to give one prominent example).

Some of your posts may make it seem as if you are not really up to speed with life today. There were multiple government announcements that the UK would be training (initially ) 10 000 Ukrainian soldiers in four locations throughout the UK. Since then there have been MoD PR videos showing the training: one was on the Ukraine thread one or two days ago. Nobody is trying to hide this, on the contrary the MoD is making hay with its opportunity to show its helpful side and contribute to positive propaganda. Anybody with any knowledge of British Army training could locate the training areas from their desk, without needing to go and listen for Ukrainian voices the the local pubs.

_Agrajag_
14th Dec 2022, 10:50
Some of your posts may make it seem as if you are not really up to speed with life today. There were multiple government announcements that the UK would be training (initially ) 10 000 Ukrainian soldiers in four locations throughout the UK. Since then there have been MoD PR videos showing the training: one was on the Ukraine thread one or two days ago. Nobody is trying to hide this, on the contrary the MoD is making hay with its opportunity to show its helpful side and contribute to positive propaganda. Anybody with any knowledge of British Army training could locate the training areas from their desk, without needing to go and listen for Ukrainian voices the the local pubs.


Very likely, I got disillusioned with reading newspapers a few years ago, when I realised so much of what they reported was just rubbish or untrue. I also don't spend a lot of time watching the TV news now, for much the same reason (plus some of it angers me to the point of wanting to throw things at the screen). As I've got older I find that the news in general is either very depressing, or skewed to present some reporters personal political view, so I tend to just turn off when that happens, rather than just sit and get annoyed by it. It's very probable that I am missing out on some key news, but how the hell does anyone filter the truth from the crap today, so they stay reliably informed about what is going on?

NutLoose
14th Dec 2022, 11:09
we can't just send them the kit with a note on the side saying " Instructions inside box. Please read the manual before use "..now can we.

Actually that is exactly what happened in 1982 when we received LGB (before all this LBGTIX+ stuff!) conversion kits for KFF on Hermes. Spent a happy hour or two with the instructions in one hand and a spanner in the other.

Mog

Even worse when they are in a different language.
We got some of the first L39's into the country and I had to go through translating all the cockpit markings, the Manuals were originally Czechoslovakian that had been translated to Russian then had been translated into some African States Language before being translated back into English.... There were some rather interesting interpretations in it, and it took some trying to work out what was what.

dead_pan
14th Dec 2022, 11:38
I don't think Russian paranoia needs much feeding - it seems to colour everything they do. We should not meekly accept a Russian veto on who can and cannot be in Ukraine. It's none of their business and there's nothing they can do about it. It's about time this fact was highlighted.

+1

What are they going to do, reinvade Ukraine? Their threats to escalate have proven to be hollow (Uncle Xi having effectively vetoed any such move), so why should we continue to be so timid?

Sheesh, they should welcome the fact we our troops are there - its the gold-plated excuse for their p*ss-poor performance on the battlefield they've been looking for.

dead_pan
14th Dec 2022, 11:42
A mate tells me that there are people around the towns close to a well-known UK training area speaking Ukrainian. Hard to keep the fact that we, along with other countries, are providing training, secret.


Eh?? Have you been on a long-stay holistic retreat to discover your inner self? This was literally plastered over the front pages of our newspapers here a few months back. Please please do try to keep up.

dead_pan
14th Dec 2022, 11:44
Very likely, I got disillusioned with reading newspapers a few years ago, when I realised so much of what they reported was just rubbish or untrue. I also don't spend a lot of time watching the TV news now, for much the same reason (plus some of it angers me to the point of wanting to throw things at the screen). As I've got older I find that the news in general is either very depressing, or skewed to present some reporters personal political view, so I tend to just turn off when that happens, rather than just sit and get annoyed by it. It's very probable that I am missing out on some key news, but how the hell does anyone filter the truth from the crap today, so they stay reliably informed about what is going on?

So Facebook/Telegram/Twitter/etc it is then, yes?

_Agrajag_
14th Dec 2022, 12:27
So Facebook/Telegram/Twitter/etc it is then, yes?

Don't use any of them, they all seem to mostly spout forth garbage, too, don't they? My wife was on Facebook for a time, seemed to me to be a cesspit that brought out the very worst in some people. Telegram is Russian, I believe, so am I really going to believe anything on there as being accurate? As for Twitter, it just seems to be mostly annoying stuff, that takes a lot of filtering to try and find information that just might, possibly, have a grain of truth behind it.

The whole media world seems to be a murky mess of misinformation or attempts to scam others in the main, with the possible exception of one or two media outlets that still seem to have retained a modicum of integrity.

t43562
14th Dec 2022, 12:47
Don't use any of them, they all seem to mostly spout forth garbage, too, don't they? My wife was on Facebook for a time, seemed to me to be a cesspit that brought out the very worst in some people. Telegram is Russian, I believe, so am I really going to believe anything on there as being accurate? As for Twitter, it just seems to be mostly annoying stuff, that takes a lot of filtering to try and find information that just might, possibly, have a grain of truth behind it.

The whole media world seems to be a murky mess of misinformation or attempts to scam others in the main, with the possible exception of one or two media outlets that still seem to have retained a modicum of integrity.
Sorry to stray off-topic but you have to do 2 things:

Don't absolutely "believe" anything - keep it in your mind that everything is a "probability" and that you are very likely to be wrong about e.g. half of what you think you know. So new information has a chance to influence that probability.
Understand the kinds of biases of the news sources we have so that you can say ok, this source is usually a bit left wing and that source is sensationalist and so on.
Sorry forgot this important one: if it's something you *want* to believe then be extra suspicious.

SASless
14th Dec 2022, 14:24
If some of you were fish....you would have been hooked, cleaned, and fried for dinner by this story.

You don't know what the Marines were actually doing....and it might just have been as simple as a PSD (Protective Services Detail) for a Diplomat or small group of Diplomats.

It could also be a cover story to disguise what they were really doing.

It does not matter what the General had to say....as it does not affect what was done or is being done as it is just a "story" and a very vague one at that.

Is there anyone that thinks NATO Troops, vehicles, aircraft, and Intelligence Service Agent do not cross the Border into Ukraine....ever?

Even after this War ends...we shall not know to what extent our forces operated to support the Ukraine Military and the Government of Ukraine.

Some secrets shall be very well concealed and those that are not are not crucial anyway.

Some of you arm chair Generals and OpsSec experts are a laugh at times.

Flyhighfirst
14th Dec 2022, 15:46
A mate tells me that there are people around the towns close to a well-known UK training area speaking Ukrainian. Hard to keep the fact that we, along with other countries, are providing training, secret.

There's also the point that every man and his dog will have realised from the first announcement that we were sending them kit that it would be completely useless without a training package to go with it. Not sure this is really an operational security breach, really, at this stage when UK provided weapons have been very publicly seen in action in theatre (NLAW to give one prominent example).

It’s not a secret that Ukrainians are here training. I think the last count was 10000 have been here so far for training. The BBC has even interviewed some leaving the training grounds. It’s not a national secret! There have been government press releases on the numbers trained.

As to the article it mentions troops used for diplomatic security. Of course they were there. Just like every other country had a military presence for their diplomats.

It is pretty sure most western countries also have special forces in Ukraine, but I doubt in any combat roles. More training, planning… for what good they could be in the bigger picture, it most likely wouldn’t be worth the risk putting them in combat operations, and having them appear at a show trial In Moscow.

Flyhighfirst
14th Dec 2022, 15:51
Perhaps the idea is to feed Russian paranoia about rear area security?

Make the Russians think we've deployed our best people to roam their rear areas disguised as sheep, ready to strike their logistics tail?

How did the Welsh get brought into this?

FakePilot
14th Dec 2022, 18:47
Perhaps the idea is to feed Russian paranoia about rear area security?

Make the Russians think we've deployed our best people to roam their rear areas disguised as sheep, ready to strike their logistics tail?

No disguise needed if you use NZ Special Forces.

212man
14th Dec 2022, 19:39
If some of you were fish....you would have been hooked, cleaned, and fried for dinner by this story.

You don't know what the Marines were actually doing....and it might just have been as simple as a PSD (Protective Services Detail) for a Diplomat or small group of Diplomats.

It could also be a cover story to disguise what they were really doing.

It does not matter what the General had to say....as it does not affect what was done or is being done as it is just a "story" and a very vague one at that.

Is there anyone that thinks NATO Troops, vehicles, aircraft, and Intelligence Service Agent do not cross the Border into Ukraine....ever?

Even after this War ends...we shall not know to what extent our forces operated to support the Ukraine Military and the Government of Ukraine.

Some secrets shall be very well concealed and those that are not are not crucial anyway.

Some of you arm chair Generals and OpsSec experts are a laugh at times.

Quite. I like the 80 years old ex-metman telling the currently serving General to STFU because he’s giving away state secretes!

WB627
14th Dec 2022, 19:57
In The Times this afternoon.

Royal Marines deployed on ‘high-risk covert operations’ in Ukraine (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a266c5be-7ad6-11ed-8486-22782b7fe87b?shareToken=531bac8ae05f92ddeb9bfd617ed48e2a)

Snippet

Presumably the good Lieutenant General was briefed from on high to make such a pronouncement...

And there we were, thinking they were killing Russians and helping to win the war :ugh:

Archimedes
14th Dec 2022, 21:17
Self serving attention seeking from a former officer who should know better. Any vacancies for a pundit going?

He's Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Financial and Military Capability), not a former officer. Took over the role in May.

falcon900
15th Dec 2022, 08:20
Sorry, my bad.
Makes his comments utterly incomprehensible though, unless of course we want to be yet further drawn in.

Asturias56
15th Dec 2022, 08:33
Sorry, my bad.
Makes his comments utterly incomprehensible though, unless of course we want to be yet further drawn in.


Exacatly - either they were just protecting a few diplomats - in which case he was shooting his mouth of or they were doing dark deeds in which case he should keep his mouth firmly shut

OvertHawk
15th Dec 2022, 11:02
Quite. I like the 80 years old ex-metman telling the currently serving General to STFU because he’s giving away state secretes!

Matron is probably running late with the Horlix and sleeping pills again. That's usually the cause of a disproportionate increase in nostalgia tainted outrage. The only reason it's not worse is that they've all tired themselves out already on a different thread complaining about the colour scheme of the new RAF Falcons. :E

Toadstool
15th Dec 2022, 11:43
Matron is probably running late with the Horlix and sleeping pills again. That's usually the cause of a disproportionate increase in nostalgia tainted outrage. The only reason it's not worse is that they've all tired themselves out already on a different thread complaining about the colour scheme of the new RAF Falcons. :E

Or civil servants can bang on about what constitutes an Officer’s breakfast.

dead_pan
15th Dec 2022, 15:30
Quite. I like the 80 years old ex-metman telling the currently serving General to STFU because he’s giving away state secretes!

State secretes?! OMG!! Like bile or olbus oil? We must protect our secretes at all costs!!