Royal New Zealand Navy

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/12/09/a-third-of-new-zealands-navy-ships-are-docked-over-lack-of-crew/

A third of New Zealand’s Navy ships are docked over lack of crew

WELLINGTON, New Zealand — Three of the Royal New Zealand Navy’s nine ships are now docked at the Devonport naval base indefinitely, due to insufficient personnel.

The 279-foot offshore patrol vessel (https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/05/13/new-zealand-is-seeking-industry-info-to-build-antarctic-patrol-vessel/) HMNZS Wellington is now the third ship to enter a period of idleness, joining the Navy’s other offshore patrol vessel HMNZS Otago and one of the two remaining 180-foot inshore patrol vessels HMZNS Hawea.

Chief of Defence Force Air Marshal Kevin Short declared the move would free up engineering personnel amid a workforce attrition. Placing a ship into care and custody will consolidate the workforce and allow better management of the effects of attrition, he argued.

Asked if the decision would enable the rest of the Navy’s fleet to remain operational, a service spokesperson told Defense News that depends on several factors.

“If the current attrition rate of 16.5% can be arrested, it is expected [that we] will have sufficient sailors to operate the rest of the fleet,” the spokesperson said. “However, there remains a level of uncertainty until this attrition rate is reversed. This requires a number of initiatives to take effect, including addressing the widening gap between our sailor remuneration and what the highly competitive job market is offering.”

But pay is not necessarily the major reason for attrition rates, according to independent defense consultant Gordon Crane. “Many of the personnel ordered to manage quarantine facilities during the COVID epidemic (https://www.defensenews.com/coronavirus/) subsequently resigned,” Crane told Defense News.

New Zealand sold two inshore patrol vessels to Ireland in March. At the time, Chief of Navy Rear Adm. David Proctor said the two remaining ships (four were built in total) provide important training and command opportunities for junior officers.

Now only one inshore patrol vessel — the HMNZS Taupo — remains available, although it has a full work program scheduled for next year, a Navy spokesperson told Defense News.

[Union Jack]

A sad reflection but still entitled the Royal New Zealand Navy one hopes!:ok:

Jack

[Asturias56]

i don't think there's a navy in the western world that isn't affected buy crew shortages and laid up vessels

[Union Jack]

VMT for the "new" title.:ok:

Jack

[Lookleft]

NZs national anthem is "God Defend New Zealand". Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request.

[WB627]

Does New Zealand have have any strategic or economic value and if so, to whom?

[rattman]

Does New Zealand have have any strategic or economic value and if so, to whom?

To australia, even have add campaign ready to invade it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-yT7o6y6k

[megan]

To australia, even have add campaign ready to invade itIt's a renegade state, used to be part of Australia. :p But I don't think we're about to do a Putin, half their population lives in Oz as it is.

[artee]

It's a renegade state, used to be part of Australia. :p But I don't think we're about to do a Putin, half their population lives in Oz as it is.

As Robert Muldoon said, New Zealanders moving to Australia “raised the IQ of both countries”

[reynoldsno1]

Does New Zealand have have any strategic or economic value and if so, to whom?

Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of milk during 2021, encompassing both unsweetened and unsweetened varieties of product.

New Zealand: US$7.8 billion (23.6% of total milk exports)
Germany: $3.2 billion (9.6%)
United States: $2.8 billion (8.5%)
Netherlands: $2.4 billion (7.1%)
France: $2 billion (6%)
Belgium: $1.96 billion (5.9%)
Australia: $1.4 billion (4.2%)
Poland: $1 billion (3.1%)
Ireland: $878 million (2.7%)
Belarus: $726.1 million (2.2%)
United Kingdom: $706.5 million (2.1%)
Argentina: $529.1 million (1.6%)
Denmark: $504 million (1.5%)
Spain: $497 million (1.5%)
Czech Republic: $495.5 million (1.5%)

[tartare]

Although there are a lot of things that frustrate me about my real home - I expect it will be highly strategically valuable as one of the few places in the world not left molten and glowing if the big balloon goes up.

[El Pato]

Let's look on the bright side though. We've just got our first P-8A Poseidon as an early Christmas present! :)

[Asturias56]

A lot of good that would do you - re read "On the Beach" by Shute

[Asturias56]

"Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request."

They're thousands of miles from anyone other than Australia. Perhaps they figure they don't really need a fighter capability?

[El Pato]

True enough but it's got to be more reliable than our 757...:O though as an ex P-3 tech, it will be interesting to see how it compares.

[dctyke]

NZs national anthem is "God Defend New Zealand". Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request.

…………..at least one of their “National” anthems is about their country and people. They have another which is about a single individual person thousands of miles away.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Milk? In tankers? With names like "Yoplait Valdez"?

Wouldn't that be a strategic vulnerability without a functioning navy?

[Asturias56]

Just looked at Google Earth - 2400 miles to the nearest bit of Indonesia - once you get to 5000 miles you start to reach the nearest bits of Vietnam, Japan and Chile

They're going to need a lot of air to air refuelling for any fighters.........

[Gooey]

Jeez there are a bunch of simpletons on PPrune.
The RNZAF Air Combat Force (ACF) were due to receive F-16 when a change of government canceled the deal and scraped the trusty A-4s. Anyway, like the NZ ant-nuclear policy it all got horribly political now which means that it never gets spoken about in public.
Just like comments here, all levels of NZ defence and foreign affairs, and NZ Governments, while fighters were very useful in WWI, II, Vietnam, Falklands, GWI, II, etc etc, the country will bury its head in the sand and hope that nasty critins like CCP and Putin do not exist in the modern 'kind' world.

[fdr]

Jeez there are a bunch of simpletons on PPrune.
The RNZAF Air Combat Force (ACF) were due to receive F-16 when a change of government canceled the deal and scraped the trusty A-4s. Anyway, like the NZ ant-nuclear policy it all got horribly political now which means that it never gets spoken about in public.
Just like comments here, all levels of NZ defence and foreign affairs, and NZ Governments, while fighters were very useful in WWI, II, Vietnam, Falklands, GWI, II, etc etc, the country will bury its head in the sand and hope that nasty critins like CCP and Putin do not exist in the modern 'kind' world.

NZ needs protection of sea lanes, a matter that Kevin short, the current CDF is well aware of. He was one of the nicest guys to have around, but he was always rational.

If the RNZN opened up active reservists, they would man every tub they have, and still have more clamouring to get a berth. All it needs are free deck chairs, an esky, and a couple of trolling lines over the transom. When there were 2.5M Kiwis, there were 1.0M boats... kiwis might not fly but they sure can float.

[West Coast]

Although there are a lot of things that frustrate me about my real home - I expect it will be highly strategically valuable as one of the few places in the world not left molten and glowing if the big balloon goes up.

What makes you think a couple buckets of sunshine won’t find their way to Oz if the balloon goes up high?

[El Pato]

Say what you like (and no doubt you will) but down here we've got a pretty pragmatic view about defence. Rather than run around banging a gong about how we used to rule the seas, we know we've got 5 million population and a limited defence budget. Primary requirements to provide some fishery protection and a lot of disaster relief and support to the local region. No need to try and show off to prove things. We're very good at actually doing what we do. How are your new carriers doing by the way? :rolleyes:

[tartare]

Who said Oz was my real home?
I'm just resident here - banking their dosh and holding one of their passports, alongside the kiwi one.
Asturias56 read the book - saw the film - now read the science.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127945417/what-would-life-be-like-in-new-zealand-in-the-event-of-major-nuclear-war
It wouldn't be a Shute scenario - but also wouldn't be pretty by any means...

[Flying Binghi]

Yer lets in all them wooly woofters and Arthur-Martha’s into the navy, what’d yer expect would happen..:hmm:

[Lookleft]

"Without a fighter capability or now a navy apparently, their anthem seems more a prayer of request."

They're thousands of miles from anyone other than Australia. Perhaps they figure they don't really need a fighter capability?

So is Australia but we still have a defense capability. We often use it to support Western nations in wars that are closer to them than to us.

[Asturias56]

So is Australia but we still have a defense capability. We often use it to support Western nations in wars that are closer to them than to us.

Not always very popular in Australia tho'

[Lookleft]

Not always very popular in Australia tho'

True and that goes all the way back to WW1 when two votes to introduce conscription were voted down. It doesn't mean Australia just says we are too far to worry about anyone invading us so lets not have an effective defense force. NZ should start to understand that defense capability can take longer to establish than the geo-political situation will give you time to do so.

[Flying Binghi]

True and that goes all the way back to WW1 when two votes to introduce conscription were voted down. It doesn't mean Australia just says we are too far to worry about anyone invading us so lets not have an effective defense force. NZ should start to understand that defense capability can take longer to establish than the geo-political situation will give you time to do so.

Yep. Been understood for some time..:)

Back in 1937 a Mr John Curtin, Federal Leader of the Australian Labor Party, said:

”..Australia cannot depend on the so-called Australian Navy..”


The full article offers a the background to that comment…. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/148319333

[ORAC]

Rather than run around banging a gong about how we used to rule the seas, we know we've got 5 million population and a limited defence budget. Primary requirements to provide some fishery protection……


Which neatly brings us back to the original post in this thread, with both offshore patrol vessels now mothballed - together with one of the only two inshore patrol vessels.

​​​​​​​Not doing so well with even such a narrow task list….

[Union Jack]

So is Australia but we still have a defense capability. We often use it to support Western nations in wars that are closer to them than to us.
Well said, Lookleft - that support is, and should continue to be, greatly appreciated, as I well know from exchange service with the RAN.

Jack

[El Pato]

People's attitude toward the armed forces as a career down here, has had a huge effect on recruitment. I have been asked many times "Why are you in the Air Force, couldn't you get a proper job?" There are still folks who want to join but it's not widely viewed as a mainstream choice. Other than some impressive advertising campaigns, I'm not sure there's much more to be done that will improve recruitment. Shame really as the Navy has some quite decent kit these days.

[Lookleft]

I'm not sure there's much more to be done that will improve recruitment.

​​​​​​​Get Peter Jackson to make a recruitment video.

[carlos755]

The social welfare budget is approx 28 Billion whereas the defence one is about 5 billion...very little emphasis on defence down here. I left a while ago but really enjoyed my time with them, pity about the salary!

[tartare]

Britain is a martial culture.
The military traditionally occupies an esteemed place in British society and social hierarchy.
Slightly culturally different in the US and Australia - but there's still social respect for a military career.
In NZ - not so... we are self deprecating about our size and distance and many kiwis are similarly scornful of the armed forces - wondering why we even need them.
Personally I was deeply saddened to see the axing of the A4s - but it hastened the public perception of an air force that could not kill (not accurate).
Great to see the first P-8 arrive - and I've often wondered if one day some sort of unmanned long-range strike capability will re-emerge that may be suitable for NZs needs - and it's budgets...

[Video Mixdown]

Great to see the first P-8 arrive - and I've often wondered if one day some sort of unmanned long-range strike capability will re-emerge that may be suitable for NZs needs - and it's budgets...
Do the NZ P-8's have weapons? All the PR I've seen refers to various fisheries patrol, SAR and disaster relief roles but no mention of ASW.

[rattman]

Do the NZ P-8's have weapons? All the PR I've seen refers to various fisheries patrol, SAR and disaster relief roles but no mention of ASW.

The FMS is here
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/new-zealand-p-8a-aircraft-and-associated-support

[tartare]

I had assumed they were capable of dropping weapons - are they not?

[rattman]

I had assumed they were capable of dropping weapons - are they not?

Of course they can, they have 5 hardpoints in the internal bomb bay and 6 wing hardpoints. The orions they have and are retiring before the end of the year have MK46's torpedos, maveric's and harpoons for the P-3 so assume the a P-8 will be getting them

(edit apparently NZ uses penguins and not harpoons)

[tartare]

Very good.
We're not totally toothless then...

[Toshirozero]

Yer lets in all them wooly woofters and Arthur-Martha’s into the navy, what’d yer expect would happen..:hmm:
Clearly since your departure from the senior service the morale has improved immensely

[West Coast]

Of course they can, they have 5 hardpoints in the internal bomb bay and 6 wing hardpoints. The orions they have and are retiring before the end of the year have MK46's torpedos, maveric's and harpoons for the P-3 so assume the a P-8 will be getting them

(edit apparently NZ uses penguins and not harpoons)

Guess the kiwis are serious about fisheries protection if they’re planning on torpedoing an over quota fishing boat.

[Flying Binghi]

Clearly since your departure from the senior service the morale has improved immensely

Seems there are some ‘moral’ problems with the NZ navy - Caint get crews.


“…diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as an organisation, as are the unique traditions and characteristics of the RNZN…”


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/10/new-gender-neutral-guidelines-will-allow-male-navy-personnel-to-wear-make-up-false-eyelashes.html#:~:text=The%20New%20Zealand%20Defence%20Force %20will%20be%20updating,nail%20polish%20if%20they%20wish%20t o%20do%20so.

[tartare]

Guess the kiwis are serious about fisheries protection if they’re planning on torpedoing an over quota fishing boat.

Ask 75 squadron!!
They’ve got form in firing on fishing boats…

[Flying Binghi]

Ask 75 squadron!!
They’ve got form in firing on fishing boats…

Wasn’t the first ever action of the NZ airforce the attempted bombing of an Australian boat ?..:hmm:


As an aside. I seen the NZ airforce Skyhawks ? at Camden air show, back-o-Sydney, about 20 odd years ago..:cool:

[tartare]

Wasn’t the first ever action of the NZ airforce the attempted bombing of an Australian boat ?..:hmm:


As an aside. I seen the NZ airforce Skyhawks ? at Camden air show, back-o-Sydney, about 20 odd years ago..:cool:

It might have been... not sure what you're referring to.
I was referring to Jim Jennings firing a 20mm warning shot or two across the bows of a Taiwanese squid boat that was fishing illegally in 1976.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/royal-new-zealand-air-force-a-4-pilot-who-fired-warning-shots-across-the-bow-of-a-taiwanese-squid-boat-retires-after-more-than-60-years-of-service/
Zero Six is now at MOTAT in Auckland.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/5875808/MOTAT-reassembles-iconic-Skyhawk

[typerated]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/41306619801_8bd6f670b5_b.jpg

The RNZN are on their 3rd (and last) set of Seasprites - the photo is of a pair of the 2nd set of airframes.

Rumour is Wildcat is favorite to replace them - assuming they still have ships to put helicopters on!

[SASless]

This discussion reminds me of "The Mouse That Roared".:rolleyes:

[Asturias56]

To be fair they do sterling work around the smaller island nations of the Pacific

[reynoldsno1]

Guess the kiwis are serious about fisheries protection if they’re planning on torpedoing an over quota fishing boat.

Many (many) years ago we were on a fisheries patrol in a Nimrod (MR.1) between Malin Head & the Hebrides, when we came across a Spanish trawler that was unregistered. He was asked to stop on Ch.16 so that he could be inspected by a patrol craft that was in 'warm' pursuit. He didn't, of course, so he was warned again as we ran towards his bows and opened the bomb doors. Parts of the Lindholme SAR gear we were carrying would resemble a torpedo when viewed by layman's eyes, and we turned so that he could see the contents of the bomb bay. He stopped very, very quickly....

[megan]

This discussion reminds me of "The Mouse That Roared"To be fair SAS they earned a well deserved reputation during WWII.

[ORAC]

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2023/01/04/how-the-new-zealand-navy-plans-to-fix-its-sailor-and-ship-shortfalls/

How the New Zealand Navy plans to fix its sailor and ship shortfalls

[Akrotiri bad boy]

With regard to recruitment and retention problems I feel New Zealand as a whole has been hoisted by its own petard.
Prior to the COVID fiasco NZ operated a punitive immigration system biased towards Oz, the pacific islands and China. I have members of my family who have lived and worked in NZ for over 20 years, about 5 years ago I attempted the move myself. At the time I held qualifications in marine engineering and was employed as a senior engineering superintendent, I was offered a post working with the Auckland Harbour authorities and another as a marine diesel trouble shooter/travelling spanner. Both employers asked that I first confirm my status with NZ immigration vis a vis qualifications, family status, criminal record, and age; this latter point proved to be my downfall. Having turned 50 I was told I would never be eligible for any form of residency and the posts would only be offered on a rolling two year work permit basis with me having to prove my suitability and progression at each renewal point. If I resigned or moved to another post I would be required to leave the country and apply anew. This was the first time I had experienced discrimination and it left a sour taste.
Perhaps I'm being churlish but I feel, certainly in my case, that NZ's age related discriminatory policies have led to their current shortage of suitably qualified people across their whole workforce.
I may be coaxed out of retirement, but it will be on my terms now, NZ missed their chance and I feel little pity for their plight.

[Whenurhappy]

Possibly, I'm well-placed to comment on some of NZ's strategic interests and challenges. I trained with the current NZ CDF and CAF; was on 5 Sqn (P3s); served in a research capacity with the RNZN; and then spent over two decades with the RAF, but mainly in MOD and with other departments. Over these years I also had many professional encounters with NZ, and travelled out there on to work trips, as well. I was also back in NZ recently and met with colleagues who are still serving in both uniformed and civilian capacities.

There is a dichotomy in NZ. Pre-pandemic, Kiwis were inveterate travellers - there were very few corners in the world where you wouldn't see - and hear - Kiwis. Indeed, the OE ('Overseas Experience') is still regarded s a Rite of Passage for middle-class New Zealanders. However, and in spite of this Globe-Trotting, New Zealanders can be surprisingly naïve about the wider world, especially threats and challenges.

New Zealand is in a benign part of the world - with no immediate, existential threats. Accordingly, the immediate need for large, well-equipped and expensive armed forces is difficult to justify. Kiwi social media is full of "why are we getting involved in Ukraine/China/Middle East etc?" as if the country lives in some self-supporting, self-perpetuating haven of peace and plenty.

However, NZ's trading interests are global and are increasingly focussed on the Middle East and Far East. Not only are these markets sometimes challenging and unstable, goods and services have to pass through these areas of instability. The vulnerability of NZ's lines of communication is nothing new: a cursory read of the impact of commerce raiders, submarine warfare and mining (in domestic waters) in both World Wars demonstrates this and strategically and technologically, nothing has changed. Geography doesn't change, but ignorance does.

Recognising this, repeatedly over the last 120 years the New Zealand Government has committed forces to be part of a much larger coalition, initially as part of an Imperial commitments then increasingly in coalition with the US and supporting NATO or peacekeeping with the UN. This keeps the skill sets alive and enhances interoperability and shows NZ has 'skin in the game'. Increasingly, however, NZ is tip-toeing around China's strategic ambitions (because of economic consequences) and domestically, politics is driven by culture wars and identity politics. There seems little capacity to engage - and want to engage - on international issues with the exception of Climate Change. And before someone goes 'Full Gammon', NZ's AOI encompasses a number of nations already being affected by changing sea levels, and the instability that this can cause.

Whilst the causes for personnel shortages in the RNZN are varied and many, NZG should consider lessons from the past and stress that NZDF, including the RNZN, has a global remit as part of like-minded coalitions - which might include warfighting. The government should not only publicise this, but also be prepared to fund it on a long-term basis and celebrate this (eg the P-8 and C130 acquisitions). NZ personnel have an enviable record of superb performance on every battlefield - in every theatre they have fought. Equally they have a reputation for speedy humanitarian disaster response across the Indo-Pacific basin, The Government should not shy away from embracing these capabilities.

As an aside, I was shocked to read that during 2022, in Term 2, only 40% of school children regularly attended school. At the same time, levels of children's literacy continues to fall. Out of 41 OECD countries, NZ is 35th in terms of child well-being: amongst other social indices NZ has the second highest obesity rate in the OECD. More than 1 in 3 children are obese or overweight. Meanwhile only 64.6% of 15 year olds in New Zealand have basic proficiency in reading and maths. This will inevitably impact on students taking up STEM subjects and therefore recruitment into STEM industries, including within the forces. Whichever government is in power, it needs to focus on the quality and content of education to tertiary level (and not on alternative reality fairy stories and mythologies).

There is no excuse for NZ being a third world country, given the bountiful natural and human resources.

[Asturias56]

". Having a third of the fleet alongside is certainly less than ideal."

Isn't that common in the RN and USN?

[Asturias56]

" I was shocked to read that during 2022, in Term 2, only 40% of school children regularly attended school."

having spent some time in '22 in Auckland it doesn't surprise me - they were still very much in lockdown mode as late as September with relatively few people out and about. About a year behind W Europe I'd say. The University campus was very sparely inhabited for example

[India Four Two]

To be fair they do sterling work around the smaller island nations of the Pacific

Seven years ago, my company was acquiring a seismic survey in its Vietnamese concession in the East Sea (otherwise known as the South China Sea). The seismic vessel was being routinely harassed by Chinese Coastguard vessels, which was nothing new. However one day we had a report that the vessel was overflown a few times at low-altitude by a four-engined turbo-prop of unknown origin. A low-resolution photo was sent to us, which confirmed it was a P-3 with an albatross logo on the fin.

After fruitlessly searching for a USN Squadron with an albatross badge, I eventually discovered this was an RNZAF 5 Squadron aircraft, a long way from home and presumably operating from Singapore, Malaysia or the Philippines.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x699/p_3k2_orion_rnzaf_04_ba99438128d99f95cb74ec629ce84756c2eaffa d.jpg

[typerated]

RNZAF P-3's are being retired at the end of this month.
It's a bit of a capability gap as the first P-8 was delivered last month

[Whenurhappy]

" I was shocked to read that during 2022, in Term 2, only 40% of school children regularly attended school."

having spent some time in '22 in Auckland it doesn't surprise me - they were still very much in lockdown mode as late as September with relatively few people out and about. About a year behind W Europe I'd say. The University campus was very sparely inhabited for example


Attendance remains low and there is no compulsion on parents to send kids to school, and for those kids to stay there, sadly. One thing that struck me particularly in NZ is the growth of the 'Anti-science' lobby, fuelled by the Anti-vaxx movement, and this conflates with the requirement for educational institutions to teach 'Maori science' and myth as fact and as an adjunct to evidence-based science.

[Eclan]

So is Australia but we still have a defense capability.
No we don't, we have a defence capability.

As for the kiwis, they rely on the "I wouldn't climb over her to get to you" theory for defence with Aus being the "her."

[typerated]

No we don't, we have a defence capability.

As for the kiwis, they rely on the "I wouldn't climb over her to get to you" theory for defence with Aus being the "her."

Aussie in not popular at all in NZ after some of Canberras less than friendly decisions.

Austrailia first might come back and bite them on the bum.

Far from standing with them I think NZ is now reluctant to even hold Australia's hat and coat when Aussie might go off and fight.

[India Four Two]

I liked this spoof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-yT7o6y6k

[rattman]

Aussie in not popular at all in NZ after some of Canberras less than friendly decisions.

Austrailia first might come back and bite them on the bum.



NZ not coming to a war is about as important as the guy with polka music not coming to the party

[typerated]

NZ not coming to a war is about as important as the guy with polka music not coming to the party

Fair enough - we are happy to leave you to it.
But why does Australia continually whinge about our lack of commitment to defence?

[West Coast]

Fair enough - we are happy to leave you to it.
But why does Australia continually whinge about our lack of commitment to defence?

Because of the lack of commitment to defense.

[Woodsy2417]

Love the advert-. Lack of commitment, you say sir!! The 5 new Hercules and 4 Poseidons will have China thinking twice about something or other, I think...er ...tell myself. yeh right.

[rattman]

Fair enough - we are happy to leave you to it.
But why does Australia continually whinge about our lack of commitment to defence?

Do we ! Never really bothered about it personally I think NZ actually does a decent job with its defence for such a small GDP (smaller than 2 of australias states). They have decided on the ASW niche and thats where they stay

NZ citizens have a over rated sense of their own importance

[typerated]

. They have decided on the ASW niche and thats where they stay


Comically no we have not decided on ASW as our niche!
Even our P-8’s are not for ASW.
Better watch out – you might get a prize for the most ill informed comment of the year!

[Ivor_Bigunn]

Interesting Factoid: The first time that NZ fought a battle under their own flag was at the Battle of the River Plate, in 1939, when HMNZS Achilles helped two RN ships sink the Graf Spee. Source: Wikipedia.

[megan]

The ship was on loan to New Zealand at the time of the battle and was known as HMS Achilles, it didn't receive the HMNZS designation until nearly two years later when the ship was transferred to the NZ Navy when the New Zealand Navy was formed. .At the time of the battle she served in the Royal Navy New Zealand Division, about 60% of the crew were New Zealanders.

[dduxbury310]

The ship was on loan to New Zealand at the time of the battle and was known as HMS Achilles, it didn't receive the HMNZS designation until nearly two years later when the ship was transferred to the NZ Navy when the New Zealand Navy was formed. .At the time of the battle she served in the Royal Navy New Zealand Division, about 60% of the crew were New Zealanders.

Rather obscure fact is that ACHILLES's service was generally as detailed above by megan, but with a twist. The NZ Division of the RN was redesignated as HMNZS because of the authorised change of title in August 1941, when it was specifically stated that all that had changed was the title of the service - the NZ Division was renamed RNZN (plus appropriate cap tallies for sailors). There was no transfer of the ship between navies (although it APPEARED as though a transfer had occurred at this point, in fact this had taken place years earlier when it was first "loaned" to the Division). Also the use of the term "loaned" referring to the arrangements for meeting costs of the warship in NZ service is sometimes taken to mean that no charges were levied by British Govt for the "loaned" ship. Many New Zealanders also assumed this meaning, and even after World War Two, many uninformed citizens of NZ were keen to state that the RNZN consisted predominantly of ships "loaned, borrowed or stolen". This may have been slightly true (but not the theft bit!), but certainly not for the cruisers, all of which were hired at agreed rates, which were substantial, and included all fuel, stores, etc, plus all wages and costs of RN personnel employed, plus all maintenance. I imagine that many other warships in larger navies were "loaned" under similar arrangements to smaller ones, as were aircraft, or even squadrons of aircraft (the Canberras and Venoms loaned by RAF to RNZAF at Cyprus and Singapore in mid 1950s to early 1960s certainly were). The "Loan charges" all show up in the NZ Government's budgets for and expenses paid for defence.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

New national anthem: "God defend New Zealand?"