Belgium blocks export of nuclear technology to UK

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/belgium-uk-nuclear-row-technology-nato-kv78fcwdg

Belgium blocks export of nuclear technology to UK

Belgium and the UK have become embroiled in a row after the Belgian government blocked the export of technology that is critical for maintaining the British nuclear deterrent, despite both countries being Nato allies.

The dispute has been escalated by warnings within the Belgian government that Britain has threatened to cancel an arms order worth up to £514.90 million (€600 million) for machineguns made by Belgium’s FN Herstal unless the export is authorised. Senior Belgian government sources are worried that the row endangers western unity and Nato at a time of war in Europe.

Two weeks ago, the federal Belgian government refused authorisation for a specialised isostatic press needed to maintain Britain’s nuclear arsenal because the greens, which make up a fragile ruling coalition, vetoed the export. The technology, a specialised high-pressure isostatic press used in the nuclear industry for handling radioactive waste, is made by the American-Belgian company EPSI in Antwerp.

An export licence, required after Brexit, was seen as a formality before Belgium’s deputy prime minister Georges Gilkinet, who is a member of the green party Ecolo, blocked it due to opposition to nuclear weapons and the arms industry.

A senior Belgian government source said the presses were “unique in the world”, according to the Flemish BusinessAM website . “This is hallucinatory. We are allies within Nato and in the context of a huge conflict on the borders of Europe. And now Ecolo is going to say that we are not allowed to supply weapons to our own Nato partner?”

The press is used as part of the manufacturing process in Britain’s Atomic Weapons Establishment at Aldermaston, responsible for the design, manufacture and maintenance of British nuclear warheads…..

The row has become public in recent days, despite being classified as a Belgian defence secret and has now escalated with the British threat to cancel contacts worth between £257.40 and £514.90 million (€300 and €600 million) that are vital to the economy of Belgium’s industrial south.

The leaks of the “highly sensitive military information” to Belgium’s LN24 broadcaster have resulted in a political battle that could collapse Belgium’s seven-party coalition. The decision is still contested within the government, according to local sources, and there is a question mark over the future of jobs and investment at FN’s factory near Liège.

Georges-Louis Bouchez, the president of the liberal MR party, which is part of the coalition, called on Ecolo to “get a grip” and stop pouring “ridicule” on Belgium. “Refusing the sale of equipment to Great Britain is the greatest of dogmatic stupidity. It is not acceptable,” he said.

During a debate in parliament yesterday, Georges Dallemagne, a Christian Democrat MP, said Britain was a valuable ally. He added: “This is all the more outrageous given the UK’s consistent military involvement in Nato . . . and in particular in the Ukrainian conflict where we should be following the example of our British allies.”

[Asturias56]

Belgian politics - parish pump at best.................. :(

[Bergerie1]

They should eat more greens. Sprouts are best, and are in season now!!

[rudestuff]

Wouldn't that be grounds for being kicked out of NATO?

[golfbananajam]

Two hours and no-ones blamed Brexit yet, must be a record.

[Asturias56]

"Belgium’s seven-party coalition. "

lets see - in the UK that would be - Tories, Labour, SNP, LibDems ,Democratic Unionists, Sin Fein, Plaid leaving Alba, the SDLP, Alliance, Greens and some independents outside the tent

No wonder they can never agree........

[HOVIS]

Two hours and no-ones blamed Brexit yet, must be a record.
I blame Brexit! 😁

[PPRuNeUser0211]

I blame Brexit! 😁
I mean, whilst refusing the license is the fault of the incumbent coalition, the fact that a license is required is, by all accounts, indeed the fault of Brexit, so probably a legit blame!

[B Fraser]

Belgium has a government?

When did that happen?

[Jhieminga]

Don't hold your breath... it may collapse again any minute now!

[pax britanica]

You may all laugh at Belgium but hey dont do so badly for a small country, they also seem to exert some controover our allegedly independednt nuclear deterrent. They also have a decent health service, educational system and generally reasonabe quality of life as well as good food . And if we hadnt left the EU there would have been no way of blocking it, but I must be mistaken there becuase Brexit is the best thing thats happend to Britain since the Romans left isnt it .

[PDR1]

The press isn't needed for the manufacture or maintenance of weapons - just for treatment of nuclear waste. The solution is thus obvious. The raw nuclear waste should be placed in containers and dropped from a supersonic flyby onto the Belgian parliamentary buildings.

Problem solved, and Brussels gets the added benefit of reduced street-lighting costs as the place would already glow in the dark.

PDR

[golfbananajam]

I blame Brexit! 😁
:)

I f there was a like button, I'd have used it.

[LTNman]

This is why the EU is based in Brussels. It is a country in name only. Apart from chocolate and beer, what has Belgium given the world?

[switch_on_lofty]

Two hours and no-ones blamed Brexit yet, must be a record.
No need to mention it when it's in the original post that this would not be an issue pre-brexit.
Brexiteers aren't known for detail or for reading documents to the end though.

[longer ron]

So presumably Belgium will also cancel the large Arms contracts/supplies as well to all non EU countries ?

[pasta]

You may all laugh at Belgium but hey dont do so badly for a small country, they also seem to exert some controover our allegedly independednt nuclear deterrent. They also have a decent health service, educational system and generally reasonabe quality of life as well as good food .
Their standard of motorway driving though... :eek:

[FUMR]

You may all laugh at Belgium but hey dont do so badly for a small country, they also seem to exert some controover our allegedly independednt nuclear deterrent. They also have a decent health service, educational system and generally reasonabe quality of life as well as good food . And if we hadnt left the EU there would have been no way of blocking it, but I must be mistaken there becuase Brexit is the best thing thats happend to Britain since the Romans left isnt it .

I thought Belgium was perpetually bankrupt, or am I behind the times?

[langleybaston]

You may all laugh at Belgium but hey dont do so badly for a small country, they also seem to exert some controover our allegedly independednt nuclear deterrent. They also have a decent health service, educational system and generally reasonabe quality of life as well as good food . And if we hadnt left the EU there would have been no way of blocking it, but I must be mistaken there becuase Brexit is the best thing thats happend to Britain since the Romans left isnt it .

Yes it is, and no going back, especially when Labour form the next government. That Is Starmer's policy. Good.

[Ninthace]

The is why the EU is based in Brussels. It is a country in name only. Apart from chocolate and beer, what has Belgium given the world?
Tin Tin
Hercule Poirot
The Saxaphone
Roller Skates
The Smurfs
The Pill
The first internal combustion engine
…

[ORAC]

For all that the article mentions Brexit, it doesn’t really cover it. The press is covered by ITAR regulations (section 2B004) because it’s a dual American-Belgian company and US technology, and therefore requires an export licence.

The US Department if Coomerce delegates the issuing of export licences from Belgium to the three regions: the Brussels-Capital Region, Flanders, and Wallonia.- which is why the government has the power to block it.


HTTPS://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/documents/regulations-docs/2333-category-2-materials-processing-1/file

https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/all-articles/220-eco-country-pages/1043-belgium-export-control-information

[Video Mixdown]

Tin Tin
Hercule Poirot
The Saxaphone
Roller Skates
The Smurfs
The Pill
The first internal combustion engine
…
Can't let you get away with including Poirot in that list!

[Jim59]

Apart from chocolate and beer, what has Belgium given the world?
Manneken Pis?

[Fortissimo]

Their standard of motorway driving though... :eek:

AL 1. Delete ‘motorway’.

[chopper2004]

Tin Tin
Hercule Poirot
The Saxaphone
Roller Skates
The Smurfs
The Pill
The first internal combustion engine
…


A glowing subject nontheless and did not realise we relied on the Flemish helping our nuclear power.

Ze Pill ??? :) interesting and the sex sorry The Sax ....

Last time I was in Belgium was for Sanicole Air Show back 2009 as old mate of mine, shes a VSO in their Land Component invited me over...was invited to her wedding few years later on but couldnt make it.. Interesting that regardless of whether you wanna fly F-16 (soon to be F-35A / A400M/ NH90 or grab an FN rifle and lead a platoon / company / tank battalion or command a small patrol vessel, had to go through their Renaissacelaan (Royal Military Academy) 4 year commissioning course (the cadets split into naval college in final year??) then earn a degree as well as the Kings Commission. I have visited the Renaisscelaan in the mid 1990s....

I was slightly bemused and saddened at the state of the villages with buildings falling apart and not being rebuilt. Even the parking lot at Zaventum International looked like it was falling apart judging by the bricks crumbling.

On a darker note, their law enforcement / gendarmarie have not fared well in the 80s/90s with the Brabant killers and a predator network found uncovered due young girls found-in-the-basement leading to a pretty much internal affairs investigation of a major police station especially their detective division damn near shut down (1995).

On another negative note, their NH90 problems.... beyond that everything is tickety boo

cheers

[Duchess_Driver]

…
Eddy Merckx
FAL

[Ninthace]

And street lighting on their autoroutes. i like that.
I was visiting family based in SHAPE recently, I did not notice any bad motorway driving, but then I spent over 5 years driving in France, The Belgians do love their priority to the right though!
For the record the Belgians did not actually invent the Pill, but they were the first to produce one that worked, a chap called Ferdinand Peeters
Other notables:
In 1672, the Flemish Jesuit missionary Ferdinand Verbiest made the first automobile ever. It was a small model that ran on steam and was made for the Chinese Emperor.
A Belgian electrical engineer and inventor Charles Van Depoele invented the electric railway. His first railway was laid in Chicago in 1883
And how about THE BIG BANG What's now known as The Big Bang Theory was presented for the first time in 1927 by a Belgian priest and scientist called Georges Lemaître.

[Stockportcounty]

“ And how about THE BIG BANG “

Think that was prior to the Pill.

[BEagle]

Belgian Chocolate!!

[Less Hair]

Stromae.

[Petit-Lion]

Glad to see that even with our best effort, it's hard to hate the Belgians! :)

[biscuit74]

The Stampe SV4

[Old_Slartibartfast]

My first powered aircraft solo was under the supervision of a Belgian instructor, does that count as being a worthwhile national attribute?

Better than my first solo in a glider. The RN instructor on that occasion climbed out after I'd just done a winch launch circuit and as he did so he remarked that I was too bloody dangerous for him to fly with so I'd better go off on my own . . .

[DodgyGeezer]

Better than my first solo in a glider. The RN instructor on that occasion climbed out after I'd just done a winch launch circuit and as he did so he remarked that I was too bloody dangerous for him to fly with so I'd better go off on my own . . .

I remember my first glider solo. I forgot to kick off drift, and veered down the runway at Gaydon in a cloud of smoke.
As I came to a stop the instructor jumped out of his Land Rover and dashed over to me. I started to say that I was fine, but it turned out that he was only interested in the tyre....

[maat]

Two hours and no-ones blamed Brexit yet, must be a record.
I voted leave and one of the reasons was that I lived in Belgium for a year and the bureaucratic mess that Belgium was inspired me never to be part of it by choice. Looks like it hasnt changed.

[WHBM]

SABENA (remember them ?). Such A Beastly Experience, Never Again.

[Ninthace]

I voted leave and one of the reasons was that I lived in Belgium for a year and the bureaucratic mess that Belgium was inspired me never to be part of it by choice. Looks like it hasnt changed.
Must be something in the water. Families posted to SHAPE endure the same bureaucratic nightmare without even having to engage with the Belgian authorities.

[Ddraig Goch]

Pax, what did the Romans ever do for us ....................................................

[mikeoneflying]

Why don't we buy a Isostatic press from China.

I am sure they copied the Belgium one years ago.

In the 1980's the Chinese 'borrowed' a lot of US Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) embargoed computers to design fighter aircraft.

I was speaking to Chinese somebody who got out of China in the 1980's who was so impressed by the DEC computers he used in China for fighter development.

He joined DEC.

I always wondered if he was still working for the Chinese government.

[Hughes500]

If we had Belgium's view in 1914 and then again in 1939 we wouldnt have the problem as there wouldnt be a Belgium

[Geriaviator]

Wasn't it Belgium which was entrusted with storage/supply of 155mm ammunition for NATO but refused to supply it during the Kosovan conflict in case it annoyed the Serbs? Yet I suppose they would expect the UK to go to war to defend them if they were invaded -- oh, wait a minute ...

[Asturias56]

In my youth I worked with a Belgian pilot who flew in the Battle of Britain and later on long range Anti U Boat patrols into the N Atlantic - I don't think any of the armchair warriors sniping at Belgium on here would brave enough to repeat that to his face were he still living

[aloominumtoob]

This is why the EU is based in Brussels. It is a country in name only. Apart from chocolate and beer, what has Belgium given the world?
Well, it gave me my Lady.......

[FUMR]

SABENA (remember them ?). Such A Beastly Experience, Never Again.

It was Such A Bloody Experience Never Again

And actually flying with them (50s through to the 70s) they were a very nice experience!

[asdf1234]

You may all laugh at Belgium but hey dont do so badly for a small country, they also seem to exert some controover our allegedly independednt nuclear deterrent. They also have a decent health service, educational system and generally reasonabe quality of life as well as good food . And if we hadnt left the EU there would have been no way of blocking it, but I must be mistaken there becuase Brexit is the best thing thats happend to Britain since the Romans left isnt it .

I know you're joking when you post that Belgium has good food! Haha. Very funny....

[Less Hair]

But he is right. Great cheese, great beef, great sausages, great fish, great fries, great sweets and chocolates. What didn't you like?

[The Helpful Stacker]

I know you're joking when you post that Belgium has good food! Haha. Very funny....
Indeed. Fries with mayo and....?

Belgium. It's the bit you have to drive through to get to somewhere worthwhile.

[Less Hair]

It sounds like you guys haven't been there for a while? I have been there yesterday. It's not what you might remember. And they do great beers as well.

[asdf1234]

It sounds like you guys haven't been there for a while? I have been there yesterday. It's not what you might remember. And they do great beers as well.
The beer deserves a special mention. The standing benelux joke is that Belgium cuisine is chips and mayo. However I wasn't poking fun at Belgium food per se, but using a Belgium food trope to highlight the absurdity of the anti-brexit argument put forward by the previous poster.

[Don't you just hate it when you have to explain yourself. Taxi for one please.]

[DIBO]

well, at least we have to admit the Belgians got balls of steel :)

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x720/1080px_atomium_2007_340f37d514f00a558569adfaa02e78ded850106c .jpg
By Kemeter - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=45803992

[Expatrick]

Good to see the Picts, Scots & ancient Brits still thrive.

[pax britanica]

Belgium is kind of the go to place when Brits want to describe something of a nothing country but sadly at the moment thats a bit of people stones glass houses . They may have something of a complex coalition but surely we take the biscuit at the moment for chaos corruption and competence (lack of)

If you watch some of the Channel 4 World Drama programmes or BBC version there are several very good Belgium programmes, Two very funny comedy series ( again not noted for their sense of humour , which is a surprise if you like to follow stereotypes. If you get the chance watch The Outlaws, a good idea done with some flair and subtlety.

[ORAC]

Belgium is kind of the go to place when Brits want to describe something of a nothing country


To be fair, we did invent it… (London Conference 1830 and Treaty of London 1839).

Moule et frites isn’t bad - but whoever invented putting berries and other fruit in beer should have been shot….

[MENELAUS]

To be fair, we did invent it… (London Conference 1830 and Treaty of London 1839).

Moule et frites isn’t bad - but whoever invented putting berries and other fruit in beer should have been shot….


Then you’ve never had a properly brewed Kriek beer. And the Ardennes has a) beautiful scenery and b) outstanding cuisine, morelles, steak etc.
Finally give Bruges a go, preferably out of season. Cracking brewery. Good scenery. Resist the temptation to quote all the lines from the film as they’re getting fed up with that.
Have to ? Have to ? Of course you don’t fecking have to. !

[tdracer]

I have to say I always find it amusing when Brits are critical of another country's food given how mediocre most 'authentic' British fare is (aside from a proper English breakfast - you manage to do a pretty good job of that one although you might want to rethink the beans).
Go to most countries and you see ethnic restaurants dedicated to various fare from other countries - French, Italian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Thia, Mexican, etc.
What you don't see is "British" - in fact about the only British fare that even shows up the menu in other countries is fish and chips...:rolleyes:

[Less Hair]

BTW there is some fantastic aviation museum in Brussels worth a visit. Like IWM on steroids.
https://www.brussels-air-museum.be/en/

[BEagle]

Hey DIBO, I remember the Atomium from Expo '58! What a day for a young boy that was - Sputnik model at the Russian pavilion, my first experience of 'color TV' at the American pavilion!

I was very impressed by King Baudouin's Cadillac too!

Then a blast down the Jabbeke highway to Oostende in Dad's Zephyr convertible before a night crossing back to the UK in those awful 'couchettes'.

Belgian frites with mayo? Yum!!

[WHBM]

a proper English breakfast - you manage to do a pretty good job of that one although you might want to rethink the beans

We are NOT going to rethink the baked beans ... !

[Less Hair]

No beanxit.

[tdracer]

We are NOT going to rethink the baked beans ... !
First of all they are not 'baked beans' - nearly everything you can buy in the UK is canned uncooked and steamed in the can (on this side of the pond, you can buy canned beans that were properly baked in large kettles prior to being canned, although steamed in the can is also common).
But the real complaint is having to sit next to someone in the afternoon who had a generous serving of beans for breakfast :yuk:

[Brakes to Park]

This is why the EU is based in Brussels. It is a country in name only. Apart from chocolate and beer, what has Belgium given the world?

Guy Verhoftwat.

[Herod]

But the real complaint is having to sit next to someone in the afternoon who had a generous serving of beans for breakfast https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Or even beans for breakfast then taking a JP up for a high-level exercise. FL350, unpressurised. Thank heaven for oxygen.

[WHBM]

Or even beans for breakfast then taking a JP up for a high-level exercise. FL350, unpressurised. Thank heaven for oxygen.
Morning runs all squashed into a skydiving aircraft up to 12,000 ft can be just as bad ...

[chevvron]

I have to say I always find it amusing when Brits are critical of another country's food given how mediocre most 'authentic' British fare is (aside from a proper English breakfast - you manage to do a pretty good job of that one although you might want to rethink the beans).
Go to most countries and you see ethnic restaurants dedicated to various fare from other countries - French, Italian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Thia, Mexican, etc.
What you don't see is "British" - in fact about the only British fare that even shows up the menu in other countries is fish and chips...:rolleyes:
Wrong. Any Mediteranean or Canarian cafe will advertise 'English Breakfasts', 'bangers and mash' or 'Sunday roasts' or what they think it might be eg the cafe I saw in Majorca which advertised 'donna kebabs' (that spelling) as being British.
I know a place in Yermasoya (Cyprus) which does an excellent sunday roast meal and I've had them in the Caribbean too (Barbados)

[MENELAUS]

[QUOTE=tdracer;11337852]First of all they are not 'baked beans' - nearly everything you can buy in the UK is canned uncooked and steamed in the can (on this side of the pond, you can buy canned beans that were properly baked in large kettles prior to being canned, although steamed in the can is also common).
But the real complaint is having to sit next to someone in the afternoon who had a generous serving of beans for breakfast :yuk:[/QUOTE

I could be talking out of my arse ( pun intended) however I think our taste for baked beans (whistleberries) comes courtesy of your good selves, and visiting GI’s introduced them to the UK during the war.
Baked beans on toast, topped off with a poached egg, and the obligatory Tabasco. As we’ve shot our taste buds to hell over the years. Culinary Heaven. And musical fruit afterwards.

[tdracer]

I could be talking out of my arse ( pun intended) however I think our taste for baked beans (whistleberries) comes courtesy of your good selves, and visiting GI’s introduced them to the UK during the war.
Baked beans on toast, topped off with a poached egg, and the obligatory Tabasco. As we’ve shot our taste buds to hell over the years. Culinary Heaven. And musical fruit afterwards.
I suspect you're right - especially when the most popular British brand of beans is Heinz. Personally, I'm quite fond of Bush's brand baked beans (they are especially good if I stick them in the smoker for a few hours while smoking something else).
But we know better than to have them for breakfast...

Wrong. Any Mediteranean or Canarian cafe will advertise 'English Breakfasts' or 'bangers and mash' or what they think it might be eg the cafe I saw in Majorca which advertised 'donna kebabs' (that spelling) as being British.
I did except English Breakfast - but I think you're reaching when you start claiming "kebabs" as British food. Sort of like that British TV show I watched recently that claimed potato crisps were a British invention based on an early 1800's cookbook that called for 1/4" thick fried potatoes and called those potato crisps (we'd simply call those fried potatoes...)

[Krystal n chips]

I

I did except English Breakfast - but I think you're reaching when you start claiming "kebabs" as British food. Sort of like that British TV show I watched recently that claimed potato crisps were a British invention based on an early 1800's cookbook that called for 1/4" thick fried potatoes and called those potato crisps (we'd simply call those fried potatoes...)

Ah, but, the question is, if you don't mind me asking, was this a true English breakfast, as in including fried bread and black pudding...essential ! or, sadly, the American influenced desecration with hash browns ?....you would be surprised how many hotels in the UK now offer a reasonable Continental / healthy breakfast option, even RAF catering has joined in as you now have to ask for a fried egg.....which is an improvement on those served cooked about 3 hrs earlier and kept warm with an insulating layer of grease.

Did you also, by any chance, encounter an "Ulster Fry " ?.....your GP would have taken a keen interest in your cholesterol level if you had, but well worth consuming.

As for Belgium, well, once into the rural areas, it's full of hidden surprises, some beautiful countryside along with rural shops and outlets....there again, at one time, you knew you had crossed the border near Eindhoven when your suspension let you know how it felt trying to compensate for the chunks of concrete purporting to be a surfaced road on the autobahn....this has now changed however.

And another plus for Belgian beverages...and frites with mayo !

[Meldrew]

This is why the EU is based in Brussels. It is a country in name only. Apart from chocolate and beer, what has Belgium given the world?
The Saxaphone and Tintin.

[Senior Pilot]

Fascinating as the drift has become, I seem to recall a Thread Title relating to Belgium blocking the export nuclear technology to the UK 🤔🙊

The discussion of baked beans and other foodstuff is a very, very long stretch by any standard 😂

[MENELAUS]

Fascinating as the drift has become, I seem to recall a Thread Title relating to Belgium blocking the export nuclear technology to the UK 🤔🙊

The discussion of baked beans and other foodstuff is a very, very long stretch by any standard 😂


Yes splot. But isn’t it amazing what a bunch of aviators with presumably far too much time on their hands can come up with, viz the RAF alternative fuel posts ?

[Asturias56]

I doubt the boys and girls at Burghfield want it "to handle nuclear waste"

[uxb99]

A thread about nuclear technology exports that ends in a slanging match about food probably means this news item is a non-event.
Nothing to see here. Move along, move along...

[Asturias56]

The Senior Mod has given us a friendly warning to stay on topic - I think it would be wise to listen to his erudite opinion!!

[MENELAUS]

What’s he going to do ? Send us to Bruges ?

[Senior Pilot]

What’s he going to do ? Send us to Bruges ?

Very droll 🤔😂

A thread about nuclear technology exports that ends in a slanging match about food probably means this news item is a non-event.
Nothing to see here. Move along, move along...
Point made and taken 👍