V-force emergency communications?

[ACW599]

I’ve been a licensed radio amateur for a long time. Back in the early 1980s when I was involved with the development of linear amplifiers and their power supplies, I repaired one for a gentleman who had been (or said he had been) a Vulcan AEO. He wouldn’t give his callsign “…for security reasons”.

In passing he said that if they lost all other communications, the V-force were authorised to try contacting radio amateurs using CW (Morse) in our 7MHz band. I made polite noises but rather doubted this tale. In fact I rather thought he was what nowadays we’d call a Walt. For a variety of reasons involving the terms of the amateur licence and the fact that most amateurs called by someone with an unusual callsign simply wouldn’t answer, it seemed highly unlikely.

I’d more or less forgotten this little story but hearing an oddball callsign the other day on 7MHz brought it back to mind. But was there anything in it? Any ex-V-force AEOs out there who’d know?

[Old_Slartibartfast]

One person here that might know (although he doesn't seem to have been around here lately) is Pontius Navigator Pontius Navigator he was a V force nav I believe. If he doesn't respond to a PM here, you might want to try "the other place", a.k.a. https://ops-normal.org/ but you will have to be quick as they have turned that place into a paid subscription only site (which I strongly suspect will be its death knoll, unfortunately) and it closes to non-subscribers at the end of this month.

[ACW599]

Many thanks. I'll drop him a line.

[BEagle]

Most V-force AEOs were up to speed on CW, although voice on HF/SSB was preferred.

That said, whilst flying at low level over the US, it was mightily tempting to select 27.185 MHz AM and announce to the truckers that you were a "Southbound 18-wheeler with the hammer down!".

[NutLoose]

Mike Rondot has a cockpit for sale on the Flypast forums btw..

[Bill Macgillivray]

ACW599. Not a retired AEO (but I flew on the Vulcan fleet for some years in another capacity) and certainly all the AEO's I knew were up to speed in morse! I would also question his reluctance to provide his callsign! All sorties used a different c/s every time!

[Shadwell the old]

I am an ex Vulcan AEO, from the late 70s and early 80s, and I certainly don’t recall any such procedure. We were all morse trained and needed to take broadcasts. In the event there was nothing to come back to, common sense said that we would try to contact, by any means anyone who may be able to help us. We did have some procedures, but this is not the place to discuss them.

[Pontius Navigator]

ACW599. Not a retired AEO (but I flew on the Vulcan fleet for some years in another capacity) and certainly all the AEO's I knew were up to speed in morse! I would also question his reluctance to provide his callsign! All sorties used a different c/s every time!
I think ACW might have meant his handle.

On speed there was one AEO, his name will come to me in a few hours time, could do about 35 words per minute, faster than the radio ops on the ground. (Dave....)

On competitions crews would game the systems. Points were awarded for the speed in responding to a coded message from Command. The message had to be decoded, the answer encoded, and transmitted back. The question for each aircraft would be slightly different.

Questions might be ETA at Force Dispersal Point/Group Dispersal Point /Station Entry Point or estimated fuel. Crews would encode all the possible answers. As the message came in the Nav Plotter would decode it from the AEO's log. As he wrote out the question the Nav Rad would select the appropriate set of answers. When the precise answer would be passed to the AEO who would send out the answer in seconds.

One crew were blisteringly fast but the Nav Rad had fumbled and passed the wrong one over.

Got it - Dave Aram
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[NRU74]

I was an ex V Force AEO
In the 60s and 70s we communicated with HQ Bomber/Strike Command which had the call sign NRU74 - none of us had their own callsigns.
Also, if you needed to use first class Morse it was from MLM which was at Uxbridge.
Pontius N I think 35 wpm is a tad fast - probably 25 wpm max(ish)

[ACW599]

I would also question his reluctance to provide his callsign! All sorties used a different c/s every time!

Sorry, bad drafting on my part. I meant his Home Office-allocated amateur callsign. In principle his name and address could have been obtained from that so perhaps he was concerned about PERSEC.

[magpienja]

I can believe it....

[SASless]

A close friend who just passed away....once told me his Morse reading speed was limited by his typing speed and he was no slouch at that.

He was a US Navy Crypto Intercept specialist and dealt with some very interesting work.

He had friends aboard the USS Pueblo which was attacked and seized by the North Koreans and its crew held captive for a period of time and were handled very roughly by the North Koreans.

Our collective Class test scores improved as we began to master Morse even at a snail like pace.....until one of the Monitors tweaked to the onset of pencil tapping.

[Barksdale Boy]

PN
I don't remember the procedure you describe in paragraph 4 of your #8.

[ACW599]

That said, whilst flying at low level over the US, it was mightily tempting to select 27.185 MHz AM and announce to the truckers that you were a "Southbound 18-wheeler with the hammer down!".

There's a story that when Rockwell were developing a 30kW frequency-agile HF transmitter and large log-periodic antenna system for the US DOD, the test technicians used to amuse themselves at lunchtime by doing something similar.

And before it was demolished the Cobra Mist array at Orfordness was used at least twice by one of the resident amateurs on the staff for something similar, allegedly...

[EXDAC]

Pontius N I think 35 wpm is a tad fast - probably 25 wpm max(ish)

What keys were V force aircrew using? The best I can manage with a WT-8A straight key is about 18 wpm. Did aircrew ever use bugs or paddles?

[Pontius Navigator]

PN
I don't remember the procedure you describe in paragraph 4 of your #8.
Probably before your time, this was in '65 and things like FDP, GDP and SEP were hang overs from high level and the route from SEP to the base followed Gee lines. Cottesmore SEP was over the Lake District.

As for the HF Coding exercise, as I said, it was a game.

NRU74, I concede I may have got the figure wrong but Dave A was known to be very fast. I see that 35 is not exceptionally fast though.

[Shadwell the old]

I was taught morse by Mr Mason at Topcliffe in the early 70s. The standard required was 25wpm. Mr Mason would tell us he could do 30 wpm. after an hour of morse with him we would be looking forward to finishing the session. His favourite words would be “just another little bit”.

one of the guys on our course who had trouble with morse, claimed he had morse wrist. He even went sick with it! It was hardly worthit

I would be surprised if anyone could do 35wpm. If they could the ground station operator would be unlikely to be able to write that quickly.

[ACW599]

I would be surprised if anyone could do 35wpm. If they could the ground station operator would be unlikely to be able to write that quickly.

Radio amateurs who still use CW can and do, but seldom on straight keys. Most of us use some form of el-bug or paddle keyer. I doubt I could manage even 25wpm on a straight key nowadays.

[EXDAC]

I would be surprised if anyone could do 35wpm. If they could the ground station operator would be unlikely to be able to write that quickly.

There are quite few amateur radio operators who "rag chew" at over 40 wpm. I'm not one of them. CW contest speeds are typically in the range 25-30 wpm but some stations will run at closer to 40 wpm. It's all keyboard sending and keyboard copy.

[EXDAC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W6SN2pbjQw&ab_channel=QRQcw

[ACW599]

There are quite few amateur radio operators who "rag chew" at over 40 wpm. I'm not one of them. CW contest speeds are typically in the range 25-30 wpm but some stations will run at closer to 40 wpm. It's all keyboard sending and keyboard copy.

Not all of it. Some of us still take copy the the hard way -- by ear :D

[flyingorthopod]

My cw is a very sluggish work in progress.

Johnny Cash apparently could read 60wpm

[SASless]

How were you taught Morse Code?

Here is an interesting article by a Amateur Radio enthusiast who does Code quick.

Morse Code at 140 WPM (http://arrl.org/news/morse-code-at-140-wpm)

[EXDAC]

Not all of it. Some of us still take copy the the hard way -- by ear :D

You misunderstood me. Keyboard reception/copy is ear to brain to fingers to keyboard. Very different from using a decoder but those do have their uses. 73.

[ACW599]

Oh, I see. Actually I can still just about write down copy coming in at about 30-35 but not as easily these days. The older I get, the better I was ;)

[NRU74]

How were you taught Morse Code?

60 years on I can still remember the sequence - PWFY,QLUB,DXRS,MJGZ,CHKVN and AOITE followed by 1-5 and 6-0 followed by the punctuation.
It must have been a very tedious task, On day one we had di dah dah dit (P) three times at about 20wpm but with longish pauses in between.and he then wrote a P on the blackboard.It took about ten weeks to learn the alphabet etc.
It was taught by Charlie Wilcox at Topcliffe and he'd taught Morse some 20 years earlier in the Tram Sheds at Blackpool to WOp/AGs

[cynicalint]

How were you taught Morse Code?

60 years on I can still remember the sequence - PWFY,QLUB,DXRS,MJGZ,CHKVN and AOITE followed by 1-5 and 6-0 followed by the punctuation.
It must have been a very tedious task, On day one we had di dah dah dit (P) three times at about 20wpm but with longish pauses in between.and he then wrote a P on the blackboard.It took about ten weeks to learn the alphabet etc.
It was taught by Charlie Wilcox at Topcliffe and he'd taught Morse some 20 years earlier in the Tram Sheds at Blackpool to WOp/AGs

And learning words with the same syllables as the sound, ie q - God save the Queen, - - .- L = to hell with it .-.. f- fetch a fireman --.- h - Piccadilly .... d - Dad did it -.. w = you wank*er ,-- C - Charlie Charlie.-.-. 3- trinity car park ...-- 4- I'm a phuking four ....- etc. 18 WPM minimum pass, ended with about 22 WPM receiving and 27 WPM sending. Our instructor, joined as National Service and was still serving as a MAEop in 1982. He could send a lot faster on a semi-automatic key, which moved to the left gave dits and to the right gave dahs. Thank you MAEop D Murga****d!

[FullOppositeRudder]

Interesting indeed. In the late 1970s I learnt Morse code listening to pre-recorded cassette tapes out on the tractor using headphones (it was a very noisy tractor). The tapes were produced by one of the NSW radio clubs. I used CW for quite a few years, and my speed came up to somewhere around 16+ WPM. Other modes were attractive, and so the key got pushed to the back of the desk. More recently I have taken to listening again, and find I can copy plain text at about 15wpm again - for a short time. I've discovered that my concentration lapses very quickly at my age, and I can't keep my mind focused on the task for more than about a minute or so.

There are a lot of amateurs out there who are still using CW - indeed I think the number has probably increased since the Morse test was no longer a requirement for gaining the qualification to operate on the HF bands. Some of them rattle away at some pretty impressive speeds. I know of a few who refused to have anything to do with Morse when it was mandatory, but went ahead and learnt it anyway once the requirement was dropped - and went on to use it on air - sometimes to the exclusion of other modes.

I once had a phone contact on 20 metres with someone (pax) who had been invited up to the front of a B-747 transiting across the northern part of central Australia at the time - he was using the A/C HF radio with the blessing of the captain. Very strange - even more so as I was using my amateur HF station on the tractor. As you can comprehend, it was quite a while ago. I also had a couple of very brief contacts on 2 metres from the tractor with Musa Manarov in the very early days of the MIR spacecraft.

Interesting things can happen in the hobby that is amateur radio.

Apologies for the digression ...
73
FOR (not my callsign)

[Barksdale Boy]

PN
Thanks. That would account for it. I didn't get to a squadron until '68.

[Clyffe Pypard]

Our AEO Ted Webb could rattle it out at 30 wpm

[HUTCHP]

'"Best Beef Essence" and "Best Bent Wire" were the ones I remember for practise. 25 wpm my best but 30 years ago, accented letters were the worst to learn

Hutch

[albatross]

There is a very nice APP called “Morse-It”.

[NRU74]

Our AEO Ted Webb could rattle it out at 30 wpm

I bought his Citröen DS19 - not the best purchase in my life !

[Pontius Navigator]

[QUOTE=NRU74;11336721]

And learning words with the same syllables as the sound, ie q - God save the Queen, - - .- L = to hell with it .-.. f- fetch a fireman --.- h - Piccadilly .... d - Dad did it -.. w = you wank*er ,-- C - Charlie Charlie.-.-. 3- trinity car park ...-- 4- I'm a phuking four ....- etc. 18 WPM minimum pass, ended with about 22 WPM receiving and 27 WPM sending. Our instructor, joined as National Service and was still serving as a MAEop in 1982. He could send a lot faster on a semi-automatic key, which moved to the left gave dits and to the right gave dahs. Thank you MAEop D Murga****d!
I remember Mr M taking our newly warranted lead wet under instruction on how a master aircrewman should behave.
There was mention here a couple of years back that Mr Murgatroyd had moved on to a better place. RIP

[radeng]

Back in the early 1950s, an RAF aircraft went missing and there was an appeal on the Home Service (Radio 4 today!) as it then was for radio amateurs to listen for it. I don't think anyone heard anything, but there was certainly a procedure in place where by 'if all else failed' they could call in an amateur band. A friend who is licenced ended hi RAF days in the driver's seat recounts how in a Varsity flying over Italy - presumably on his way to somewhere like Cyprus - in the early 1960s they had a power failure and he went down the back and fired up the T1154 and R1155 and called Speedbird control (BOAC in those days)in London to pass messages. Another amateur - long dead now - was an airborne 'WOP' in the mid to late 1940s and in a Dakota, flying in the Far East had the main tx fail. Using the low power Command tx he called on Morse and explained 'Main tx u/s'. Now a Command transmitters (SCR 274series) were a low power short range HF equipment and Morse transmission was every much an afterthought and they could not be keyed at any speed above about 12 words per minute. So Martin's message that 'Main tx u/s' should not have been copied as it was as 'Main tanks u/s' which triggered a major SAR operation. As one can imagine, when the Dak arrived at its destination and on time, the brown stuff flew around!.

[MPN11]

At BRNC in the 60s we did Morse by buzzer and lamp ... the latter standing around the Parade Ground perimeter with a lamp on the mast. ISTR we had to get to 8 wpm, but we were never taught any techniques ... we just had to sort ourselves out somehow!

[ACW599]

Back in the early 1950s, an RAF aircraft went missing and there was an appeal on the Home Service (Radio 4 today!) as it then was for radio amateurs to listen for it. I don't think anyone heard anything, but there was certainly a procedure in place where by 'if all else failed' they could call in an amateur band.

That's very interesting -- thank you. I wonder whether that was the origin of the original story?

[Jetstream67]

The main problems are

If they didn't think he had a licence they couldn't legally communicate with him
If they did it would be to criticise his morse, aerial and impure CW tone

As others have said, CB might be a better way to pass the last minutes before Armageddon (if stuck in an aircraft)

[EXDAC]

If they didn't think he had a licence they couldn't legally communicate with him


Certainly not true in USA. FCC rules allow anyone to use any frequency to communicate in an emergency.

[Trumpet trousers]

How were you taught Morse Code?


Mick the Morse at Finningley, early 1980's. Anyone else remember him? Civvy ex-RAF telegraphist (IIRC) who doubled as the self-appointed studes agony aunt!
The method of teaching was PRT (Pattern Recognition Technique) [again, IIRC!] I think the standard to achieve was 12wpm transmit, and 14wpm receive, but happy to be corrected. As an aside, does the P8 Poseidon have morse capability?

[Chugalug2]

I followed the hams as a mere onlooker in the 70s. My Peruvian born wife wanted to listen to something closer to home than BBC2 so I started to explore the arcane world of Short Wave. Having acquired a Yaesu FRG-7 communications receiver I scanned the broadcast bands on her behalf but soon found that there was a paucity of international stations broadcasting out of South America (most were inbound to there from the likes of Radio Moscow and the BBC). There was one though that could with luck be pulled in through the variable vicissitudes of the troposphere. It was HCJB, La Voz de Los Andes, based in Ecuador and powered by Hydro Electricity, so very much on trend. It was/is a missionary outlet but attracted a following by airing traditional native music, featuring flutes, drums, and stringed instruments (particularly the Harp). So, a very 'plunky' sound that survived the vagaries of propagation rather better than European classical music would have fared. One of their programmes was DX Party Line, that informed enthusiasts of the varying comings and goings of transmissions heard by correspondents around the world. So started an interest in everything SW; broadcast, ham, and utility bands alike. At certain times of day you could listen in to exchanges between Hams in the USA and USSR for example. The former concentrated in the State of Florida (retirees following the hobby), the latter very avuncular and offering "73s to you my friend" but remaining cagy as to exactly where he was. No doubt a KGB Colonel at least, for who else would be allowed such largesse given that this was during the Cold War (see, it isn't thread drift after all!)?

The point of all this waffle? Merely to illustrate the importance of HF at the time for broadcast listeners, hobbyists, and indeed the RAF. "Upavon, Upavon, this is RAFAIR 1234. How do you read, over? They didn't, as often as not. Changi Comcen had rows of airmen with headphones clamped to their ears vainly trying to pass/receive operational messages along the CENTO route. Gan, Bahrein, Cyprus, UK, all might have been on the far side of the moon for all the good it did. One day a USAF officer from a detachment covering the first orbiting Gemini missions appeared at the front door. Could he please set up his Comms Equipment on the building's flat roof, pointing to his attaché case? An airman was duly provided to humour him, and it was from that airman that the whole camp soon learnt what had happened. Out of the case comes a corkscrew aerial duly pointed to the sky, and a handset. He checks his watch and soon begins intoning, "Canaveral, Canaveral, this is Singapore, report my signal, over. Roger, loud and clear also. Out". He restows his gear and follows the airman downstairs again. We were witnessing things to come...

[kaitakbowler]

Mick the Morse at Finningley, early 1980's. Anyone else remember him? Civvy ex-RAF telegraphist (IIRC) who doubled as the self-appointed studes agony aunt!
The method of teaching was PRT (Pattern Recognition Technique) [again, IIRC!] I think the standard to achieve was 12wpm transmit, and 14wpm receive, but happy to be corrected. As an aside, does the P8 Poseidon have morse capability?
Certainly PRT was the method used at Cosford to teach morse to B/E telegs, a long time ago but IIRC 24wpm plain language was the standard.

PM

[Radley]

Also Bob, who would psycho-analyse you if you missed a particular letter.

[Asturias56]

IIRC the original method of alerting the Prime Minister of a Nuclear attack when he was outside London was to inform the gentlemen of the AA & RAC motorbike patrols who would flag him down when they saw him..............

[Pontius Navigator]

IIRC the original method of alerting the Prime Minister of a Nuclear attack when he was outside London was to inform the gentlemen of the AA & RAC motorbike patrols who would flag him down when they saw him..............
Which is why the AOC in C Bomber Command could scramble the force on his own initiative, a bit like the current letter of last resort.

[Asturias56]

I thought that came a bit later - originally it required a political sign-off I think - I shall dig in the garage and see what it says

[ACW418]

Dave Aram was the AEO on the crew on which I was co-pilot. He lived in the next room to me in a Seco hut and he seemed to be doing w/t all night long! I can remember his c/s but won't promulgate it. I am pretty sure he exceeded 35wpm.

ACW

[Rod T]

As an ex-Vulcan AEO, I can confirm that morse was, shall we say, the last means of contact, given the probable nature of the HF bandwidth, if the balloon went up. I am disappointed that you call this chap a ‘Walt’, I fear that you were not on his humour bandwidth, that was the preserve of aircrew.

On another note, there is a comment regarding using the HF kit to spoof the American CB community. I fear that I did exactly that on one boring transit from Goose to Offutt. It caused quite a stir as more and more of the American CB community, wanted to get a comms with this strange English chap in Devon (allegedly!), who’s CB radio had the benefit of that old anomaly, troposcatter, little did they ever know that we were just a few miles above them!!