De-Ice 'Clean or S/Flaps' Holdover Time Option

[UNC]

Quick Question please.....

Choice of De-Ice 'Clean or S/Flaps' Holdover Time Option

This is Reference A320 HOT table options. Why are there clean config tables? Am trying to understand the logic of this, I can guess but am interested if there are any informative answers.

Thank you for any response.

[FlightDetent]

Kindly provide source reference for your Airbus HOT tables.

[First.officer]

I'm guessing FlightDetent, that the tables might well be these;

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2022-09/FAA%202022-23%20HoldoverTables.pdf

Does Airbus approve all of these fluids as listed?

[Capt Fathom]

146 pages! Could you narrow that down for us First.officer?

[FlightDetent]

No need. That document explains the fluids,as it should. What an excellent source (same as the IATA De-Icing guidelines) but logically no reference to any specific plane let alone configuration.

EDIT: no excuses, really.


What the OP may be alluding to is that the OEM does not specify or verbosely prohibit wing de-icing with surfaces extended.

The way the manual is structured [PRO-NOR-SUP-ADVWXR "A" AIRFRAME DEICING/ANTI-ICING PROCEDURE ON GROUND], the described procedure does not connect to the normal flow of activites pre-start or after-start in the crew SOP section. Given the high level of integrity and consistency of the OEM FCOM, this non-embedding raises questions and is one of the weak links.

However, drawing a conclusion that de-icing during taxi is done with flaps out might be perilous.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

If you know your surfaces are clean, or that you've not operated on a contam surface and the flaps have been stowed the whole time when exposed to contam then de-icing and then anti-icing with flaps up/retracted is logical - the "hidden" parts of the system are clean, and by doing it flaps up you get a longer holdover time.

If you however suspect contam on the parts of the flaps which would be "hidden" when retracted then deploying the flaps to de-ice is pretty much a given, it's the only way to clean the flap leading edges etc. You may then anti-ice in that config (but you'll take a penalty on HOT) or retract first to anti-ice. If you're doing one-step combined anti-ice and de-ice of course, the flaps will have to be down.

NB generic comments, not Airbus-specific.

[UNC]

Kindly provide source reference for your Airbus HOT tables.

Source is FAA Holdover Time Guidelines - Winter 2022-2023 replicated in Company OMC.

Thank you for asking.

[UNC]

Thank you good people for your input, very much appreciated.

[FlightDetent]

Thank you for asking. Apologies. If anyone needs to look for a moronic post of the week #2 in this thread would do.


The second thing I learned here:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/917x433/hey_stupid__2de8c54318d6e9b7229cfa9aeb13234fffe5bbe6.png


We do deice clean with the current and all previous operators (to give back a bit)