Boarding by seat row

[Blackfriar]

I recently flew out of Bristol on SleazyJet. It was raining heavily and blowing a gale. For some reason there was only one set of steps at the front. They boarded "Speedy Boarding" passengers first and they generally sit up front. Then started boarding all the rest of us, resulting in most of us getting soaked through standing on the apron or stairs while the first people on board stood around getting their bags in the overhead lockers etc.
I get why Speedy Boarding were boarded first - they paid for it, but why not board the rest by seat row to minimise the time in the rain?
When I was a despatcher (1980s) we used to board by seat row (30-27, 26-24 etc ) so the people with seats down the back didn't block everyone else. This was both to speed up the boarding and get the thing out on time and, if the weather was bad, to stop all the SLF getting wetter than they needed to be.
Question: Have despatchers/passenger handling forgotten this trick?
Question 2: Why in Britain do we have open stairs when it rains so often? I get that the low-cost airlines won't pay for jetways (and Bristol doesn't have any to my knowledge), but I have seen aircraft steps with covers.

[Asturias56]

this has been discussed many times and there is no good solution - research suggest it best to board by distance from the aisle but when you use actual passengers they screw it all up every time

[Load Toad]

I live in Asia - boarding is by 'Who gets up and goes to the front first' - no matter what airlines say or do or what their staff try to put in some system and discipline it always reverts to that. THis has been the case since I moved out here in 1995 and I have given up any hope of it ever changing

[Less Hair]

Chaos boarding is said to be the fastest variant. I know this from an unnamed airline that tested several ways for fastest boarding. Window seats first, back of the cabin first, rows by numbers, frequent travellers first or last or when they want, front cabins first or last and all sorts of variants.

[Tarq57]

Problem can be resolved at a personal level, by simply not joining the boarding queue until it is no longer a queue. Just wait in the gate lounge. You're just as uncomfortable on a departure lounge chair as you would be in the modern horror that an airline chair has become.

[ABellisatvvat]

Because if the people, who didn’t pay to be allowed on first, we’re allowed on first, they’d be stowing their bags at the front of the overhead lockers and having a right old chuckle while they did so. That’s why.

[meleagertoo]

The problem with 'organised' boarding is that it makes perfect sense to sensible people but once pax have entered an airport and passed through that curtain of hot air that blows down over the entrance doors their brains remain outside on the pavement where they were blown and they behave thenceforth like a herd of cats.
Pax cannot be organised. They simnply don't co-operate and thereby screw up the system.

I've seen 450 US troops with personal kit board a 747 in six or seven minutes - because they are disciplined and do as they are told.

[Hartington]

I had a colleague who timed the loading of an all economy 747 - 8 minutes,

As for waiting until everyone else has boarded, some 40 years ago I met someone who had recently been to Saudi Arabia. He checked in for a domestic, went to the gate, watched the scrum when the flight was called and when he actually boarded no seat. Same again next day. Day 3 he had wised up, joined the scrum and got a seat.

[Asturias56]

A colleague remembers boarding a UTA flight in Mali - they changed the aircraft from a DC-10 to a 707 at the last moment - boarding was a fight and when all the seats wear filled the ground crew simply drove the steps (still full of people) away

[InTheHighlands]

In the late 80's I flew Garuda from Ambon to Surabaya - a jet of some description 100+ seats

We all boarded and doors closed. Then became apparent there were more passengers than seats - solution to squeeze 3 smaller passengers onto 2 seats etc. There were a significant excess.

And I remember that we seemed to use the whole length of the runway before lumbering into the air. Upon which there was an announcement that all the baggage had been left behind.

Not strictly relevent to the thread, I'm afraid......

[25F]

My father, who worked in Africa for many years, had a story. Upon finding that the flight was massively over-booked, the crew organised a race for the passengers. Once round the aircraft, and those who got to the steps first, got to board.
Implausible? My Dad never knowingly said anything untrue; besides, there was no need to make stuff up as there was no end of crazy-but-true stories from 60s / 70s Africa.

[MechEngr]

Rear seats first sometimes points the teeter-totter nose up at the gate. No hilarity ensues. Baggage loading has also done the same stupid trick.

A photo I would like to see again was a large T-tail in Alaska - overnight the snow accumulation on the tail was so much it went nose up. Can't risk just shoveling it off - so they first built a huge snow pile to support the nose gear to lower it back down.

[oldpax]

Perhaps a ticket discount for passengers with no hand luggage other than a specified handbag/manbag .
I could never understand why airlines allowed so much hand luggage and wondered what on earth people were taking with them!

[jolihokistix]

Flights with main airlines into and out of Japan seem not to have this particular problem. Passengers generally accept and comply silently with the latest clever method of boarding. Have not noticed much difference in time taken to board. Must be a cultural thing.(?)

[S.o.S.]

InTheHighlands All good stories are welcome - so welcome to the Cabin of PPRuNe.

[longer ron]

Re 'speedy boarding' on Squezy Jet.
I 'commuted' Bristol/Glasgow for a couple of years.
Because of work times etc myself and fellow regular travellers were often at the front of the 'luxury' stand up lounge/gate at Brizzle.
I often boarded a millisecond behind the speedy boarders :),I had to choose my seat carefully (balanced against cost of course :) ) as I had to be almost first off the a/c to then run for the first bus to then catch onward train home in scotland.
I was not so bothered at the BRS end as I parked my old 306 diesel in t'carpark :).
We quite often had a good laugh about squezy jet antics - sometimes the gate was 'closed' and the inbound jet was nowhere to be seen,at least with FR24 etc we could see if any jets were actually heading our way.The gate closing could cause some arguments for the gate staff as if people arrived at the gate a few minutes later - you could hear them pleading with the gate staff ''but the jet hasn't arrived yet'' - ''sorry sir the gate has closed'' - ''but'' ''but'' - no chance.

[Less Hair]

My parents still love to tell a story when they had to stand during some overbooked flight in Bulgaria (Tu-134) while the flight attendant sat on some passenger's lap.

[DaveReidUK]

Whenever I've flown Southwest in the US, boarding has been pretty smooth. Their policy of unassigned seating, and boarding pax strictly in the order that they have checked in online, sounds crazy, but it works.

[S.o.S.]

I have seen numerous loading schemes that work under controlled conditions - such as the military loading of a 747 as described by meleagertoo. But they all fail in the face of regular humans. Around 1980 I was working in a posh hotel in London's West End. The Head Porter, who had been there a long time, explained, "When they walk in the front door - their arms drop off and they can hardly carry a newspaper."

The other kind of behaviour that is unresolved is the Emergency Evacuation. I have watched those videos as they test the speed of emptying various aircraft. I am glad not to have witnessed it in real life (yet...) as I have little confidence that the 90 seconds can be met.

[sealo0]

Bring back Palmair I say at BOH
Peter Bath (boss/owner) would come to the airport for each flight and over the PA would announce central seats only first (can’t remember the numbers) and anyone trying to jump the queue would be sent back with a good ticking off, over the PA as well. then rear seat number by the rear steps and the front rows via the front steps.

I remember one year there were very bad traffic jams around the airport so he came in by helicopter just to see off the next flight.

Mike

[ehwatezedoing]

this has been discussed many times and there is no good solution - research suggest it best to board by distance from the aisle but when you use actual passengers they screw it all up every time
As long as airports will have crappy sound systems capped with bad (TV announcements) Displays plus Airlines not having standardized boarding systems, it will be a gong show.

[Asturias56]

It would be lot easier if they had text screens at each gate I always feel.

ABZ used to have a lady who gabbled every announcement at warp speed 9 - No-one understood a word.

[Less Hair]

Guiding passengers thrue boarding might be a great use of mobile phones and augmented reality. Including live guidance to empty bins for carry on stowage.

[PAXboy]

I have seen some airline apps that offer guidance to the gate - I'll bet some will still pretend that it didn't work and they should not have been offloaded!

[Less Hair]

The next thing would be to beam passenger names or initials right onto the headrest to speed up boarding.

[S.o.S.]

In this forum, we have long mourned the passing pf the 'flik-flak' boards. They were large, readible from far away and, each update brought a cascade of noise - so folks knew that there was an update.

But, vertical monitors are difficult to see from a distance and do not announce any change but they are cheaper - so of course they now dominate. If they would like people at the gate on time, perhaps have a 'flik-flak' board. I think it was an italian design.

[Load Toad]

I flew from HKG to BKK - first business trip in 3 years. Plane was rammed. Multiple nationalities. Lo & behold as boarding time came near a queue snaked its way around the gate area and people boarded pretty much as and when they wanted. I sat down and watched. When I boarded of course the seats by me were already taken & they just had to move so I could take my window seat. I don't know what the rush is - same when we land and everyone wants to get up straight away, though they can't get off anyway.

And people that need assistance boarding should be boarded last not first

[togsdragracing]

once pax have entered an airport and passed through that curtain of hot air that blows down over the entrance doors their brains remain outside on the pavement

A similar phenomenon occurs in railway station car parks and outside schools, I have found.

[S.o.S.]

Indeed, no other school pupil or parent is to be given any space, time or consideration ... my local crematorium has two schools in the same road (the crem was there first) and I have seen funeral directors arguing with 4x4s blocking the hearse and limousine.

[PAXboy]

I see we did indeed discuss the Solari 'Flik-Flak' boards.
PPruNe archive (https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-630043.html)

[Peter47]

Is the problem the increased amount of hand baggage? Boarding times have increased over the years as has the space on overhead lockers. Is this linked? Should airlines be looking to limit overhead bin space to 80%? In my experience U.S. airlines load by status so that the frequent flyers get the storage space. This is may be correct from a commercial vantage, operationally it is terrible. Can anyone tell me what the cost is of an aircraft on the gate not going anywhere? In the U.S. crew are paid by the flight hour and the only fuel cost is ground power so maybe not that high. European low cost airlines like boarding from the front & rear, in U.S. gate use is almost universal. Has anyone worked out if it might be cost effective to have two jetties for narrow bodied aircraft? I'm sure that it is possible though it might need a lot of rebuilding. Schiphol has multiple jetties for wide bodied aircraft at some piers with some being able to access doors further down the fuselage.

[DaveReidUK]

Is the problem the increased amount of hand baggage?

I doubt the two are related.

Speaking as someone old enough to remember when airliners had hat-racks rather than lockers, I don't recall boarding being particularly faster in those days.

[S.o.S.]

Talking of hat racks ...
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x630/fujpiz0xoae1yab_b0efbfa7dfd5060e9d85725c291b3b66c06be3d1.jpg

[Null Orifice]

#33
My daughter, then aged 7 months, flew 'sleeper class' in a similar air cot when we flew home from Changi in a VC10 in 1971. She had a rather more comfy ride than her parents and siblings.
As an aside, I wonder if anybody at BZN found my son's toy car that he had dropped on the floor and was last heard of doing about 200+ knots toward to rear of the cabin during takeoff?

[PAXboy]

Given that the aircraft using those baby hammocks were travelling at lower (= bumpier) altitudes - it makes you wonder what happened if the turbulence made the baby puke too much ... :sad:

[Rwy in Sight]

In this forum, we have long mourned the passing pf the 'flik-flak' boards. They were large, readible from far away and, each update brought a cascade of noise - so folks knew that there was an update.

But, vertical monitors are difficult to see from a distance and do not announce any change but they are cheaper - so of course they now dominate. If they would like people at the gate on time, perhaps have a 'flik-flak' board. I think it was an italian design.


I loved that sound. Maybe they can bring the sound back. BBC had a story when production ended.

[Asturias56]

But I understand they were a sod to maintain

[DaveReidUK]

For anyone who's feeling nostalgic about the Solari boards, there are a few simulators for PC (with realistic sound effects) available on the Net.

[topgas]

I was coming back from a conference in Edinburgh on EasyJet in the days when there was no seat allocation. When I arrived at the gate (right down at the end of the terminal)all the seating was full, so I stood about 10 feet from the desk, in the middle of the floor, and got out a book to read. A little later, I looked around and an orderly queue had formed behind me. Row 1 first and only time!

[sealo0]

I see we did indeed discuss the Solari 'Flik-Flak' boards.
PPruNe archive (https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-630043.html)
I worked for a German co in the mid 80’s when we were doing the Birmingham new street upgrade. I had the delightful task of coding all the individual flaps if irc there were 60 flaps on each panel each double sided. And again iirc 10 panel high. Each letter was a certain witdth (points) and no computer to work the totals out. So all on paper & pencil and a couple of rubbers.

The only station I remember is Grange-over-Sands which caused lot of problem!

mike

[El Grifo]

Here in Lanzarote, when flying with RYR and paying for the priority boarding package, the normal routine is to let the priority lot on to the bus first, followed by the first lot of normal boarders.
When the bus reaches the aircraft, the doors are opened and the mixed throng pour out.

Priority boarding on the bus only 🤣🤣

El Grifo

[Asturias56]

you want to be last on the bus and first off it and up those steps- calls for considered judgement

[PAXboy]

Ah Yes, have played that game before. RYR are not the only ones to do this. Get on the bus and then hold tight to a handle right by the door.

[Asturias56]

Then they drive around and open the door on the other side..........

Still you can get to the front by trampling the weak and the aged into the dust of the tarmac :}

[S.o.S.]

Sounds like a good New Year's Resolution, Asturias56. I do know that moment when the bus looks like it has arrived at your aircraft and then does a last minute 180 degree turn to present the other doors. :ugh:

[Mr Mac]

My father, who worked in Africa for many years, had a story. Upon finding that the flight was massively over-booked, the crew organised a race for the passengers. Once round the aircraft, and those who got to the steps first, got to board.
Implausible? My Dad never knowingly said anything untrue; besides, there was no need to make stuff up as there was no end of crazy-but-true stories from 60s / 70s Africa.

25F
Your Father did not lie or embellish a tale. I have also seen that on a flight in Nigeria in late 1980,s. It is quite something when you see one of the larger Mama Benze,s in full regalia and built on the larger size running around a 737 desperately trying to out pace smaller and more nimble rivals.

I have also witnessed the fire department use water to brush people of the landing gear when there was a semi sit in / occupation when their flight was cancelled, and they observed an A/C from same carrier getting ready to go elsewhere.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[25F]

Thanks for affirmation. To many people it will sound too nuts to be true. "Mama Benze's" - hah! For the benefit of others: people who drive around (or get driven around) in Mercedes-Benz cars are the "Wabenze" (or similar).

[jensdad]

Bring back Palmair I say at BOH
Peter Bath (boss/owner) would come to the airport for each flight and over the PA would announce central seats only first (can’t remember the numbers) and anyone trying to jump the queue would be sent back with a good ticking off, over the PA as well. then rear seat number by the rear steps and the front rows via the front steps.

I remember one year there were very bad traffic jams around the airport so he came in by helicopter just to see off the next flight.

Mike
This whole thing is a massive bugbear of mine. I so wish that some gate staff these days would have the balls to do what Peter Bath did. In fact I would argue that it isn't even balls, it's just discipline in doing the job you've been assigned to do. Only let people through when they've been called; once you've had a couple of people trying it on, just make an announcement that either you come up when called, or we're stopping boarding and you aren't going anywhere. The sensible majority (I do believe that such a thing exists) would police it.
An even bigger bugbear is the fact that several times now, I've been in boarding group 8 or some such, and with me being a well-mannered kind of chap I've sat with the intention of waiting until called... Several minutes later I'm sitting on my own and realise that the gate staff have simply given up calling boarding groups.

[Asturias56]

Thanks for affirmation. To many people it will sound too nuts to be true. "Mama Benze's" - hah! For the benefit of others: people who drive around (or get driven around) in Mercedes-Benz cars are the "Wabenze" (or similar).

A colleague of mine had pictures to show boarding in places like Chad and the CAR - essentially they opened the gate on to the tarmac and it was everyman for himself to the stairs. They even used to drive the stairs away , packed with passengers, once the plane was full.

[paulc]

Have done a couple of domestic flights on Philippine Airlines recently and not only do they board by row numbers or groups, they disembark in the same way

[PAXboy]

Reminds me of the first time I went through FCO. Arrival was fine with an expected wait for bags.

Departure. After check-in, I was waiting for the gate to be announced and could see that, each time a gate was announced there was a deluge of Pax towards it from all angles. There was nothing resembling a queue, or boarding sequence. Since everyone already had a boarding pass, they would get on, but the headlong rush was the same every time. When my flight was called, I waited until 90% had rammed their way through. I had a windown seat reservation so the folks had to stand up and shuffle out. My handcase fitted under the seat in front of me.

Subsequently, I have been through Pisa and Genoa - they were calm and normal.