BA Euroflyer

[JStone]

Hi

Does anyone know what the BA Euroflyer selection process entails?

Is it the same as BA mainline?

Thanks

[BAreject]

Same torturous experience - only to end up on £15k less than your colleagues up the road on the Golden Runways - if you're successful, that is. You could eventually find yourself up at Heathrow by choice after a few years and ultimately you're a British Airways pilot hence the same assessment process.

That said, you'll be assessed by EF staff and they're an extremely friendly bunch, so the experience will be slightly more palatable.

Good luck. I Think there's been some subtle changes to the process but somebody who's been through it recently will hopefully post the details.

[Busdriver01]

Would anyone advise leaving ryanair to join euroflyer? I feel safe where I am right now and just starting to really spread my wings at FR. The potential prize is also not LHR so not really 'BA'. It is however the BA seniority list and ultimately my main airline was always BA. How quick would be able to join BA up the road? I feel I shouldn't let the chance slip by It'll also involve switching from B to A which is another pain having invested so much time (and money) getting to grips with the Boeing philosophy

- Do you want to lose 5/4?
- Do you care about flying/having the opportunity to fly long haul?
- Do you mind commuting to Heathrow eventually?

If no to the above, stay where you are. You'll be 4-5 years on the list for Heathrow behind almost all others there. One would imagine you're close to a command at FR, so that wont come any sooner at EF. The money isn't as good at FR, I don't believe.

However, if you want to try long haul, or euro tours, or just want to wear a hat, then have at it. I joke about the last bit, but the first two are valid reasons to join and the sooner you do it the better your life becomes in terms of building some seniority. Just be aware the work life balance is not as good as 5/4 will achieve until you're top c.10% on your fleet/seat.

Good luck!

[VariablePitchP]

I'm actually a lot less experienced than you presume. I'm still <500hrs so quite inexperienced and still getting to grips with things. It has been a monumental effort up until this point with the rating and line training etc. This is what's making me think very hard about throwing it all away to go to EF when it's not even really BA. Right as I'm getting a good grounding in the 73.
The 5/4 is handy but I can work around it.
I do want to fly long haul
i don't mind commuting to LHR (though I haven't tried it so that's a guess)
I am still in my mid 20s .. so I'm thinking its a good time to join the MSL. I'm just having a hard time justifying throwing away all I've worked for so far in FR and what is perhaps the safest job in the industry (whilst I'm still vulnerable, because nobody will be interested in me with my hours if things go belly up whilst swapping companies)

Join BA. Had you said you were 42, kids, 2500 hours and getting ready for command I’d have said no.

Seems a no brainer where you are. So what if it takes you 5/6 years to get to the 787/350, you’re now only early 30s..! Of your 40 year career, you’ll have done 39 at BA and 1 at Ryanair, that’s hardly leaving it too late. They all talk about seniority, you seem to be in a position to get to the top from where you are.

Training? Meh, you’ve got one type rating, that’s the hard bit. The 320 is a video game, super easy to fly, wouldn’t even consider that as a factor to be honest.

[ToCatLady]

What are the EF terms for FO? Rumour has it they’re getting absolutely nobody turning up except Wizz crews and the odd EZY.

is it that bad?

[White Van Driver]

Look up the "sunk cost fallacy" - don't stay where you are because of what you've invested into it. Take the best option looking forward.

As others have said - 5/4 is great and you may well miss it. But as you are young (and without family yet?) then joining the BA MSL now is a good choice, as you can do your most junior years while you are more flexible.
Long Haul is something you're never going to get with FR. Nor is crew catering, aircraft variety, night stops etc. But I understand FR pays much more than BA, certainly in the first decade which is where it matters most.
The work of another type rating wouldn't bother me... but I would personally like to get 1000hrs in any type to feel like I understand it. Having said that, if you are just applying now, it could well be many months to go through the selection process and get your EF start date, so you may feel like you've done your time by then.

good luck with your decision. For reference, I joined BA (straight onto LH) just when people would have told me not to bother - I was a very well paid SH captain, ~40yo, wife+kids to support. But LH had always been my dream, and though a big drop in pay, i still live the same lifestyle as I've always been pretty frugal 😆 I'm very happy with my decision - and if I wasn't then I'd reverse it.

[Alrosa]

I think others have already offered you very good advice I’d just add this : you might want to factor in the possibility of BA deciding to charge successful candidates up front for an Airbus TR in any future campaigns.

(I’m not aware of any plans for them to do so, but the way things are going it wouldn’t be a huge surprise !)

[thetimesreader84]

Just be aware that traditionally LGW - LHR moves have been "subject to the needs of the service BA". People who have had valid, accepted bids onto LHR fleets have had them delayed and even cancelled as their position at Gatwick couldn't be "backfilled". I believe the same is true of EF, although I haven't checked the scheduling agreement so can't say for certain.

I'd check that contract carefully if I were you. Traditionally Gatwick was the hidden gem at BA, probably because it was practically ignored by waterside - a double edged sword as we saw in 2020.

[DS1]

Would anyone advise leaving ryanair to join euroflyer? I feel safe where I am right now and just starting to really spread my wings at FR. The potential prize is also not LHR so not really 'BA'. It is however the BA seniority list and ultimately my main airline was always BA. How quickly would one be able to move up the road? I feel I shouldn't let the chance slip by but also not sure if I should jump off the ship I'm currently on.
It'll also involve switching from B to A which is another pain having invested so much time (and money) getting to grips with the Boeing philosophy​​​​​​​

You would probably be frozen for 5 years before moving to LHR. But aviation is fluid and 5 years is just a guide line.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I'm actually a lot less experienced than you presume. I'm still <500hrs so quite inexperienced and still getting to grips with things. It has been a monumental effort up until this point with the rating and line training etc. This is what's making me think very hard about throwing it all away to go to EF when it's not even really BA. Right as I'm getting a good grounding in the 73.
The 5/4 is handy but I can work around it.
I do want to fly long haul
i don't mind commuting to LHR (though I haven't tried it so that's a guess)
I am still in my mid 20s .. so I'm thinking its a good time to join the MSL. I'm just having a hard time justifying throwing away all I've worked for so far in FR and what is perhaps the safest job in the industry (whilst I'm still vulnerable, because nobody will be interested in me with my hours if things go belly up whilst swapping companies)

You should definitely consider BA.

I know loads of guys at BA from all ages. Some even joined late 40s. If you’re from SE from all the info IMO it’s the best gig.
You have options. SH LH. Opportunity to go part time, adjust your roster etc. I’m with Blue and yellow and honestly they have messed up big time.
Ok you can get fast command but wake up people. The pay is not amazing for Captain.
RYR First year Captain £91500. Second year £98250.
Then £105k. Ok so I haven’t added sector etc.
RYR say Captains earn £136k but:

Allowance £6k
Annual Leave £3kish
Sector pay 850 hrs £14kish
Pension £8k.

These figures are added on top of basic.

Don’t forget out of this you have to pay LOL, Uniform, Company IDs, CAA/IAA fees etc etc Food, tea, coffee, ok we get free water now. Well done what an achievement.

Make contacts with guys/gals in BA. Ask them directly. I was always skeptical but starting adding it all together and it is a very good option. Small things add up.
RYR 5 on 4 off is the only good thing. From comparing rosters yes RYR actually have more days off over the year but man when you’re working 12 hr duties are pretty standard.

As White Van said: Look forward,10 years minimum!!!

[White Van Driver]

interesting numbers Aiminghigh, I've not actually seen the reality at FR.
For reference so the OP can compare, in BA to equal that FR Y3 Capt package (142k including pension and all allowances/flight pay etc) you are around 10 years in the company and a junior Airbus captain.

Again, best of luck with your decision - weigh it all up, realise that you can't know everything, and try not to get mentally caught in golden handcuffs! 😉

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Exactly WVD.

Captains say to me take home is around £6k-£6.5k.

The BA pension is very good. I don’t know any company that actually adds it into your earnings except RYR.

Even as FO at BA I know guys who haven’t been far off Captain salary, that is at LHR. Ok not consistently throughout the year and they did overtime for it but they showed me you get the right trip on SH at overtime rate and man you can get some serious ££££.

Like you said money isn’t everything. Having options in this career keeps it interesting. IMO.

[VariablePitchP]

Thanks for the advice. I've actually got 2 type ratings. I flew a prop before covid, lost that job and joined FR earlier this year. It will mean ive spent 30k on a type rating that i'll have nothing to show for because EF have called me for having 100 sectors on the prop, they didn't know anything about the 73, so I can't even say at least it got me into BA. Something about spending 30k to then walk away from it with nothing to show is making it very hard to stomach 🫣

Just to add to what others have added, forget the 30K this second.

You could have spent 500 million, utterly meaningless. The money is gone, it’s totally irrelevant.

The only question now is, if you had both job offers in front of you, which would you now take? If FR, stay, valid outcome. If BA, go.

[clvf88]

A320LGW - remember 'continuation bias' from Human Factors...

I fully understand the mentality of where you are coming from, but if I was you I'd be off to EF. Better sooner rather than later.

[de fumo in flammam]

A320LGW - remember 'continuation bias' from Human Factors... That's a new one on me - but the "sunk cost fallacy" seems fitting.

[Vulka]

Hi all..

chancing the subject...
BA Euroflyer OR Vueling seem to be the recipients of the new B737 Max(del. from 2023)in order by IAG

any news?
thks

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

- Just be aware the work life balance is not as good as 5/4 will achieve until you're top c.10% on your fleet/seat.


To expand, top 10% in the right seat on the 320 at Heathrow is currently at about pay point 9. Top 10% in the right seat on the 777 is something more like pay point 20 (perhaps higher). Captain I flew with the other day on the 320 is about 50% on that list at pay point 17, and still a couple of years off a long haul command. The most junior long haul captains are still around pay point 20. Part time is the only way for them to avoid an absolute shafting every month.

Anyone joining as a long haul FO is going to be junior for a very long time. Relative seniority moves much quicker on short haul, and when you do eventually go long haul you’ll jump over any DEPs who joined on that fleet after your start date. Ultimately, if you want to join BA then the sooner the better. As recruitment either stagnates or accelerates, a few months’ difference in start date can mean years of difference in getting a particular fleet/seat.

[CXKA]

Very much in the same position as you, I am totally with you on leaving with more or less 500hrs feels like wasting the TR with immense learning opportunities on RHS still to come, and the guys in the deck have a different vibe comparing to legacy . Have sent you a dm.

Am not sure what vibe you are talking about but you dont get many leave legacy for LCC, the vibe on LH fleet at mainline is very good, cant comment on SH though.

[ToCatLady]

Very much in the same position as you, I am totally with you on leaving with more or less 500hrs feels like wasting the TR with immense learning opportunities on RHS still to come, and the guys in the deck have a different vibe comparing to legacy . Have sent you a dm.


if you’re in the same position as the poster, then how on earth do you know what the “Vibe” is like at a Legacy?

[Vokes55]

if you’re in the same position as the poster, then how on earth do you know what the “Vibe” is like at a Legacy?

Most likely from Ryanair captains that also have no idea what the "vibe" is like at a legacy. I'd imagine the same people that say don't do long haul, because jetlag from four trips a month is far worse than getting up at 3:30am five days a week - having never done long haul.

To be honest, if you're in your mid-20s on low hours and making your career choices based on perceived "vibe", you're better off staying in Ryanair.

[RARA9]

It all depends on what you want in life , I consider myself lucky in a way as I have done LH for a number of years and have decided it’s not for me anymore and have bitten the bullet to leave a legacy to go to a low cost holiday company , which assuming I get a command one day will give me more money over the rest of my career.
It’s not as simple as saying why would you stay at Ryanair and not go to BA ?????
maybe people want more money and operate from a nice easy regional base ? Or don’t care about boasting who they work for … just my thoughts

[Alrosa]

Very much in the same position as you, I am totally with you on leaving with more or less 500hrs feels like wasting the TR with immense learning opportunities on RHS still to come, and the guys in the deck have a different vibe comparing to legacy . Have sent you a dm.

Those immense learning opportunities you mention are available to you at BA too, not just Ryanair. Your TR won’t be wasted - it’s not just about learning to fly a 737, many of the skills you acquired during your TR will be transferable to any other flightdeck.

As others have said, you need get over this “legacy” “us & them” mentality. Ask yourself where you want to be in 5-10 years, what you want out of flying, etc. That should inform your decision making.

For instance, if quick command is what you want over anything else, BA will not really give you that (maybe Euroflyer would I don’t know …)

If you’re able to wait for command and in the meantime enjoy seeing Europe, the world and flying different types of aircraft - well I would suggest Ryanair/low cost isn’t where it’s at.

Be honest with yourself, know what you really want and what can wait, and make an objective decision . Have many people have gone from Ryanair to BA ? How did it work out for them ? You could take that into consideration as evidence !

But don’t base decisions based on what you or others “think” it’s like.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

It all depends on what you want in life , I consider myself lucky in a way as I have done LH for a number of years and have decided it’s not for me anymore and have bitten the bullet to leave a legacy to go to a low cost holiday company , which assuming I get a command one day will give me more money over the rest of my career.
It’s not as simple as saying why would you stay at Ryanair and not go to BA ?????
maybe people want more money and operate from a nice easy regional base ? Or don’t care about boasting who they work for … just my thoughts

Exactly it depends what you want!!!
I am pushing 40. I still see BA as a great option. For me it’s the flexibility. LH/SH, you get options for part time, loads of other benefits. At the Irish LCC I mean you have to pay for everything yourself. Then they add that it your pay. £65k a year for STN FO. No it’s not. It’s more like £55k on what would be a normal job spec. BA Euroflyer £65k plus the 15% pension plus they pay for your medicals etc.
Compared to LHR yes Euro is a fair chunk less nearly £20k however you’re not doing trips spending money in hotels etc.

I have seen my mates pay at mainline and man he’s not far off first year captains at RYR.
Even at 40 can I see myself doing SH only for another 25 years? No.
Mid 20s can you see yourself doing SH for 40 years? Ok maybe you go into training.

PS. To add look how badly RYR treated crew during COVID. Speak to main who went through it and it was horrible. Yes BA got rid of some. RYR didn’t but paid nothing in some cases. Let the pilots claim from governments and only just reinstated pay when managers got it 18 months ago. That’s why 1000 are working notices.

[ToCatLady]

Exactly it depends what you want!!!
I am pushing 40. I still see BA as a great option. For me it’s the flexibility. LH/SH, you get options for part time, loads of other benefits. At the Irish LCC I mean you have to pay for everything yourself. Then they add that it your pay. £65k a year for STN FO. No it’s not. It’s more like £55k on what would be a normal job spec. BA Euroflyer £65k plus the 15% pension plus they pay for your medicals etc.
Compared to LHR yes Euro is a fair chunk less nearly £20k however you’re not doing trips spending money in hotels etc.

I have seen my mates pay at mainline and man he’s not far off first year captains at RYR.
Even at 40 can I see myself doing SH only for another 25 years? No.
Mid 20s can you see yourself doing SH for 40 years? Ok maybe you go into training.

PS. To add look how badly RYR treated crew during COVID. Speak to main who went through it and it was horrible. Yes BA got rid of some. RYR didn’t but paid nothing in some cases. Let the pilots claim from governments and only just reinstated pay when managers got it 18 months ago. That’s why 1000 are working notices.


On this note location is also a factor. Those living up north can’t really relocate to LGW on the terms offered by EF but 65-70k at RYR up in MAN or Scotland will go much further. Commuting to LGW is almost impossible whereas to LHR becomes a little easier.

[Potatos_69]

£65k a year for STN FO. No it’s not. It’s more like £55k on what would be a normal job spec. BA Euroflyer £65k plus the 15% pension plus they pay for your medicals etc.

Euroflyer earns 65k? I saw the offer that was in 2021 (so maybe they improved it) but based on 900h a year the most a y1 FO could earn was approximately £59k gross all up (nice pension on top is always good)

That is less money than Wizz in LGW and at least there you can get a Fixed 6/4 roster most of the year. And if you do 900 at wizz you’ll probably earn around 70k gross (although the pension is currently beyond terrible but rumours are it’s being made competitive due to retention becoming a serious issue)

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Euroflyer earns 65k? I saw the offer that was in 2021 (so maybe they improved it) but based on 900h a year the most a y1 FO could earn was approximately £59k gross all up (nice pension on top is always good)

That is less money than Wizz in LGW and at least there you can get a Fixed 6/4 roster most of the year. And if you do 900 at wizz you’ll probably earn around 70k gross (although the pension is currently beyond terrible but rumours are it’s being made competitive due to retention becoming a serious issue)

Not sure what it was 2021 Basic at Euroflyer is £49k. Then flight pay makes it £65k can’t remember if that was based on 900hrs. Looking at hard figures yes not much in it between other carriers based out of LGW. Look at whole package though. Long term opportunities, pension, staff travel, etc.

[Smooth Airperator]

Did anyone else get an email from Recruitment reminding them they can use up to 300 words for one of the questions? I'm confused. Mine is about that already.

[A320LGW]

Cheers for the info!

[Cloud Bunny]

Would be extremely grateful if anyone has any insight into the assessment process for Euroflyer - think it’s been asked previously in the thread but not covered.
Appreciate it can be delicate posting publicly so would appreciate a PM if more suitable.

Thanks very much in advance 👍🏻

[White Van Driver]

I have read and re read the posts on here and I thank you all for your advice.
Meanwhile, is it true the BA pay scale maxes out at around 7-8k net? Someone here said it recently but It seemed surprisingly low, I've discussed it with other pilots since and they all agreed it seems very low.

That was probably me - I claimed it was £8k. I took a paye calculator and plugged in: (current at Oct 2022) Capt PP34 salary less 6% pension less 4% covid paycut plus 800hrs flight pay and got £8160/month.

Now we've agreed to end covid pay cuts from Jan and return the pay rise that was agreed before covid. This is all complete from April 2023. Plugging the same numbers (salary, 800hrs flight pay, -6% pension) from April 2023 gives £9280/ month.

[flap_actuator]

Hi. Does anyone know if the advertised salary for the DEC at euroflyer is basic gross or does it include expected average allowances??

[White Van Driver]

Hi. Does anyone know if the advertised salary for the DEC at euroflyer is basic gross or does it include expected average allowances??
which advertised salary? If it's the £104k I've heard that includes the allowances.
IIRC the BAEF Capt scale starts at £81.8k basic plus £20/flt hr plus £2.5/duty hr. Basic increases by £1.5k per PP until PP12 at £98.3k.

[flap_actuator]

which advertised salary? If it's the £104k I've heard that includes the allowances.
IIRC the BAEF Capt scale starts at £81.8k basic plus £20/flt hr plus £2.5/duty hr. Basic increases by £1.5k per PP until PP12 at £98.3k.

Thanks, that’s what I thought it might be. It wasn’t very clear in the job advertisement.

[cefey]

You should definitely consider BA.

I know loads of guys at BA from all ages. Some even joined late 40s. If you’re from SE from all the info IMO it’s the best gig.
You have options. SH LH. Opportunity to go part time, adjust your roster etc. I’m with Blue and yellow and honestly they have messed up big time.
Ok you can get fast command but wake up people. The pay is not amazing for Captain.
RYR First year Captain £91500. Second year £98250.
Then £105k. Ok so I haven’t added sector etc.
RYR say Captains earn £136k but:

Allowance £6k
Annual Leave £3kish
Sector pay 850 hrs £14kish
Pension £8k.

These figures are added on top of basic.

Don’t forget out of this you have to pay LOL, Uniform, Company IDs, CAA/IAA fees etc etc Food, tea, coffee, ok we get free water now. Well done what an achievement.

Make contacts with guys/gals in BA. Ask them directly. I was always skeptical but starting adding it all together and it is a very good option. Small things add up.
RYR 5 on 4 off is the only good thing. From comparing rosters yes RYR actually have more days off over the year but man when you’re working 12 hr duties are pretty standard.

As White Van said: Look forward,10 years minimum!!!

I don't disagree with you and imo (for what it's worth) I think joining BA in the early 20s is the best move for most pilots.
Regarding the salary, the right thing would be to calculate for the entire career.
Let say OP is 25 and earns 3000£/month. In 3 years he'll upgrade to CPT and will get 6000£/month. Throw in LTC/TRI if that's on your mind.
Long story short, you set up two scenarios in excel, adding 40 values (25 - 65 yo) and summing it all up. I'm pretty sure FR will get way on top. Now you can add cost of lol, meals, teabags, uniforms, etc, etc. Depending how much time one is willing to spend, one can add pension (bring them to comparable level/contributions), train discounts - if applicable and so on.
Next step, take the difference, /40/12 - you see what the avg difference a month. This is pure maths, as objective as it gets.
Whatever it is, 50£ or 2000£ - now you can subjectively decide what you prefer.
"I'll get on avg 800£/month more at BA/FR, but I'll get 5/4 roster (or LH flights), etc, etc, etc."

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I don't disagree with you and imo (for what it's worth) I think joining BA in the early 20s is the best move for most pilots.
Regarding the salary, the right thing would be to calculate for the entire career.
Let say OP is 25 and earns 3000£/month. In 3 years he'll upgrade to CPT and will get 6000£/month. Throw in LTC/TRI if that's on your mind.
Long story short, you set up two scenarios in excel, adding 40 values (25 - 65 yo) and summing it all up. I'm pretty sure FR will get way on top. Now you can add cost of lol, meals, teabags, uniforms, etc, etc. Depending how much time one is willing to spend, one can add pension (bring them to comparable level/contributions), train discounts - if applicable and so on.
Next step, take the difference, /40/12 - you see what the avg difference a month. This is pure maths, as objective as it gets.
Whatever it is, 50£ or 2000£ - now you can subjectively decide what you prefer.
"I'll get on avg 800£/month more at BA/FR, but I'll get 5/4 roster (or LH flights), etc, etc, etc."

The Euroflyer gig isn’t the best in terms of £££. Having seen the rosters they look lighter than RYR couple of days extra work over a month average. Hours at work looked less. Euroflyer is quicker upgrade than at mainline. I know a few captains joined BA back in 2018, redundant 2020 back at BA A320 LHS out of LGW. They had 0 A320 hours experience.
I don’t know anyone well enough at Euroflyer to ask them to show me a payslip.
A320 LHR and a close mate of mine takes home £4200 minimum year 2. I said somewhere else here he bagged an overtime trip that added £2k on to that!!! 40hrs of which he was sat by a pool!!! Not bad if you ask me.

10 years time even as LHR FO on current BA deal what it’s going to be £90ishk basic plus £15-20k extras.

At Euroflyer of course less but decide to move to LH and you will slide to that.

A final benefit is you can take your contract to a bank and get a decent mortgage. RYR Bluesky/STORM what ever they are dishing out now say you are employed on a 3 year contract. Jokers.

5 on 4 off is RYR only trump card. Yes it’s amazing to plan that far in advance but the rest is a joke.

These figures subject to change. BA it’s £3k a year pay rise.
RYR I do think there will be a pay rise this year. Possibly a big one. Will that stop people leaving? Not really. Will there be another pay cut? Possibly.

[737 Jockey]

What’s the roster like at Euroflyer? Thx.

[RPat01]

Can anybody explain the necessity to hire DEC’s? I’d imagine there would be FO’s that meet the experience requirements for in house upgrades.

Secondly, if one were to join as a DEC, is there a realistic chance of moving to LHR onto the 320 that side? Or is it still a better option to apply for a DEP at LHR and wait for command?

[White Van Driver]

Can anybody explain the necessity to hire DEC’s? I’d imagine there would be FO’s that meet the experience requirements for in house upgrades.

Secondly, if one were to join as a DEC, is there a realistic chance of moving to LHR onto the 320 that side? Or is it still a better option to apply for a DEP at LHR and wait for command?

There are plenty of FOs who could take an EF command but very few are bidding to do so because of lesser contract at EF, perceived less job security, and a long "freeze" (years before getting back to LHR). Because there are so few willing internal transfers, they need to hire DEC.

No one quite knows how the move to LHR will work but my best guess is that after 6 year freeze is finished you'll be able to go across. It might well be as FO though as I believe the time to command at LHR is above 6 years.

By taking DEC at EF you'll be earning more than a DEP at LHR for those 6 years so that's a decent option. Then go across either as soon as you can (probably 6 years), or wait a bit longer to go across keeping your LHS.
Just be aware of the negatives before committing.

[Flocks]

Hello all.

I saw also the advert for EF as DEC. They are advertising min 105 000£ the first year, is that the basic only and you can do more with overtime ? Like 10/15 ? If someone got the details, please ? Because if I compare to direct entry with jet2, 105 only seems light.
They speak about 12 years salary increase, I heard 3000£ extra a year ? I m right ?

An other question for the pilot at BA EF, in your SOP, can you disconnect autopilot / ATH and fly manually? FD ? Raw data ? Visual approach ? Maybe it seems silly, but I m trying to see what is company culture. Thank you.

[White Van Driver]

Hello all.

I saw also the advert for EF as DEC. They are advertising min 105 000£ the first year, is that the basic only and you can do more with overtime ? Like 10/15 ? If someone got the details, please ? Because if I compare to direct entry with jet2, 105 only seems light.
They speak about 12 years salary increase, I heard 3000£ extra a year ? I m right ?.

Capt scale starts at £81.8k basic plus £20/flt hr plus £2.5/duty hr. Basic increases by £1.5k per PP until PP12 at £98.3k.
Working a day off gets you an extra £457 gross.

yes it is less money than much of the competition. But comes with the advantage of taking your number on the BA MSL.

[R T Jones]

And I thought the £600 for a day off payment at easyjet wasn’t great…

Agreed about getting your point on the MSL. If I were LGW based at easy in my mid 30’s.. I’d be very tempted by DEC. Unfortunately I’m only one of those things.

[Dragon Baron]

They’re now advertising on LinkedIn for non rated DEC. I guess people don’t consider the package competitive.

[FACoff]

And they’d be right. Even after the latest (negligible) pay rises you’re starting off almost £30k behind an EasyJet skipper from day 1, who operate next door as a much bigger and more secure operation. Loyalty bonuses at Easy roughly match the increments at Euroflyer so for the first 12 years your pay won’t even begin to catch up.

BA are once again showing their arrogance in assuming their MSL carries more weight than it does. Most significantly, they’ve shown their true colours during covid and how they simply can’t be trusted. They’d sell Euroflyer to the highest bidder in a heartbeat if the conditions suited them.

Grass is always greener of course, I’ve fallen into that trap. Some will place greater value than others on having the ability to move fleets.

[RPat01]

And they’d be right. Even after the latest (negligible) pay rises you’re starting off almost £30k behind an EasyJet skipper from day 1, who operate next door as a much bigger and secure operation. Loyalty bonuses at Easy roughly match the increments at Euroflyer so for the first 12 years your pay won’t even begin to catch up.

BA are once again showing their arrogance in assuming their MSL carries more weight than it does. Most significantly, they’ve shown their true colours during covid and how they simply can’t be trusted. They’d sell Euroflyer to the highest bidder in a heartbeat if the conditions suited them.

Grass is always greener of course, I’ve fallen into that trap. Some will place greater value on having the ability to move fleets than others.
Anybody wanting to join BA as a DEP but meets the requirements for the non-type rated DEC at EF will surely take that option? During the time you would have been earning a FO salary at BA, you’d be earning more (yes, less than EZY skipper) but potentially have the chance to move across to LHR at some stage in the future should the opportunity arise. (I know, I know)

As you’ve mentioned, has it’s associated risks but for someone in their late 20’s to early 30’s, operating elsewhere as a skipper, this looks like a great opportunity?

[de fumo in flammam]

Indeed. The prospect of starting off as junior SH trash on below market pay, coveting the prospect of maybe in 6 years time, moving on to being LH junior trash... isn't much of a selling point in my book.

[White Van Driver]

Anybody wanting to join BA as a DEP but meets the requirements for the non-type rated DEC at EF will surely take that option? During the time you would have been earning a FO salary at BA, you’d be earning more (yes, less than EZY skipper) but potentially have the chance to move across to LHR at some stage in the future should the opportunity arise. (I know, I know)

2 great points.
If you are after money and fixed pattern roster and don't care so much about going LH later on then go EZY and enjoy!

If you were going to join BA as a SH DEP anyway, then you'll make more money and have more nights in your own bed as a DEC at BAEF while you wait for your number to come up. At the cost of a bit of job security until you get your LHR contract.

BA has taken the micky somewhat with this contract. The market will decide if they've gone too far.
we are all in unique situations, if you're lucky enough to have the choice, make your own decision on the merits of each.

I'm personally junior trash at LHR on a LH fleet and love it. If i was offered SH FO at LHR or DEC at BAEF I'd choose the latter.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

2 great points.
If you are after money and fixed pattern roster and don't care so much about going LH later on then go EZY and enjoy!

If you were going to join BA as a SH DEP anyway, then you'll make more money and have more nights in your own bed as a DEC at BAEF while you wait for your number to come up. At the cost of a bit of job security until you get your LHR contract.

BA has taken the micky somewhat with this contract. The market will decide if they've gone too far.
we are all in unique situations, if you're lucky enough to have the choice, make your own decision on the merits of each.

I'm personally junior trash at LHR on a LH fleet and love it. If i was offered SH FO at LHR or DEC at BAEF I'd choose the latter.

Interesting last point. SH FO at LHR is pretty good pay from what I have seen. £20k off LHS BAEF. Ok you are away more so spending down route but once you start earning over £100k you lose loads of benefits from a tax perspective. Tax free allowance, 30 hrs free child care plus few other things. Better to be earning £130k or more £100-£120k is the worst bracket to be in.

But agree everyone situation is different. Speak with a friend recently who has gone for both at BA. They satisfy DEC at EF but they are closer to LHR commute wise. Another thing to consider.

[ClearedToNowhere]

While things have improved hugely at the pointy end, roster is pretty good at the moment, and can’t complain about the salary, life has certainly improved. But I and many other BAEF drivers can’t help but feel angry at the huge gap between the management of FD and CC.
Flying with genuinely miserable CC everyday is certainly draining. Flying ridiculous rosters, being charged for cleaning (that’s right, money deducted from their salary for having cabin cleaning on turnaround), having crying crew members in the office, it’s not a great environment right now and needs fixing sharpish. With no management in the office, the work of “dealing” with these issues falls to those with the stripey shoulders.

[737 Jockey]

Anything interesting to report back from the EF roadshow Thursday? Couldn’t make it due to work commitments unfortunately. TIA

[Moonraker4]

Hi Folks,

could anyone share some feedback on what’s coming up at the assessment day of the EF assessment, via this or even PM.

Appreciate any help in advance and best of luck to those applying.

[737 Jockey]

Hi Folks,

could anyone share some feedback on what’s coming up at the assessment day of the EF assessment, via this or even PM.

Appreciate any help in advance and best of luck to those applying.


Have you been invited already then? Which position? Cheers.

[Moonraker4]

Have you been invited already then? Which position? Cheers.

Assessment mid feb. NTR FO. Cheers.

[737 Jockey]

Cheers, good luck!

Were there essay style questions to complete during your online application, or just CV upload? Usually are for BA, but I couldn’t see any. Applied as DEC NTR.

[RPat01]

Does anybody have any information on the holdpool time, specifically for the NTR DEC’s? I presume priority is given to TR candidates?

[mplpilot]

Hi All,

I’m just seeking so more information on the rostering at BAEF, in particular JSS, for junior FO’s. Really trying to get an understanding of what I’m getting myself in to - would really appreciate someone providing a run down or example of current BAEF roster.

With this in mind, I’m trying to understand the SH lifestyle with BAEF having previously flown a mix of UK/EU 2 and 4 sector days without night stops.

Thanks!

[rhs4life]

Hi All,

I’m just seeking so more information on the rostering at BAEF, in particular JSS, for junior FO’s. Really trying to get an understanding of what I’m getting myself in to - would really appreciate someone providing a run down or example of current BAEF roster.

With this in mind, I’m trying to understand the SH lifestyle with BAEF having previously flown a mix of UK/EU 2 and 4 sector days without night stops.

Thanks!

Prepare for 6 days on 2 days off… Also being bottom of the seniority forget about ever having a weekend off. Lots of 6 day blocks that start with earlies and end with lates too.. I’ve worked for a few airlines and it’s by far the worst roster I’ve had and it’s not even summer yet. One positive is that it does tend to be mostly 2 sector days.

[Ginger Ninja]

Does anyone have any information for the assessment day? I'm a NTR FO with the assessment soon. Thanks!

[737 Jockey]

It’s all in the posts above. Apparently it’s standard BA mainline assessment which is now minus the maths/verbal reasoning. Happy to be corrected.

[RPat01]

Have any NTR DEC applicants had any feedback after their initial application yet?

[737 Jockey]

Have any NTR DEC applicants had any feedback after their initial application yet?


Nothing other than the acknowledgement email. I do know one chap (also NTR) who received a PFO a couple of weeks ago. No news is good news? 😬

[skyguardian88]

Assessment mid feb. NTR FO. Cheers.
Can you share some details?

[Oasis]

What would be a typical BA EF pilot roster in terms of days off per month? How much reserve?

Thanks in advance.

[vpcaptain]

Hi can anyone shed light on a typical Eurofly LGW roster for a captain, and can you explain the roster codes RSD - reserve day ? And how that works ?, PRSV ?, AVA ? TDO, ODO ? TS, FT, WR, and LB.

currently flying up to 99 hours in 28 days 850-900 a year so would that be similar ?

also any info on holidays, stby duration currently 12 hours and call-out time as currently have to be at aircraft in 1hour from phone call.

appreciate if you need to PM details thanks

[737 Jockey]

Anyone who recently attended the BA EF assessment day care to share info? Particularly interested to hear about the NTR DEC tech exam level/content. TIA

[Skyview05]

Hey everyone. I am too after some info on the online/in person assessment day. Would be great if anyone could share any insight. Thanks a lot!

[GOLDYMITTENS]

Can someone share the Video Interview questions for BAEF pleasee. Thankyouu

[clarkeysntfc]

What’s the starting salary for cadets in BA EF, for reference?

[Potatos_69]

What’s the starting salary for cadets in BA EF, for reference?

Doing some rough math's from an MOA that was leaked a year or so ago, you will max out absolutely around 60k flying 900 hours in year 1

edit: as an FO

[EGMC]

DEC's going to LGW on the A320- is the sim being done on A320 as well? seems like nothing available to book in last few weeks, atm prob not likely then until after xmas???, which seems strange as up until now the vibe has been 'we need to get people in the seats asap'!
If anyone has done the sim stage and doesn't mind sharing I would be most grateful for a DM

[peter2023griffin]

Hi vpcaptain,
Typical roster is 6-2, maybe 5-2 if you're lucky, same for FO's. However I do have to say it is Flexi roster so it could be anything. Scheduling agreement states you will get a minimum of 10 days off and really that is all you will get... You will also probably be on a minimum 850-900 hours per year. Theres a constant battle with crewing as the scheduling agreement is written so poorly, everyone interprets it in their own way :)

The company claims there is a bidding process for the roster - based off seniority - but the most senior captains aren't getting what they request so the system doesn't work well at all. Probably because the company is chronically under-crewed. Management have been promising fixed pattern roster since the conception of Euroflyer but there still have nothing even close to show for it (and how can they when they are scheduling pilots with lovely 6-2 rosters).

As a junior DEC you will be flying every weekend and won't have any say on your roster but that's the seniority system for you, there would be the same issue in mainline BA.

They will tell you that winters will be quiet but most pilots are on the minimum 10 days off regardless and the rest of the days that you wanted off get filled up with reserve (normally 6 days of reserve per month).

RSD - rest day
PRSV - reserve - the evening before this day, by 19:00, they assign you either a flight/home standby/airport standby for the following day
AVA - available day - the evening before this day, by 20:00, they assign you either a flight or a rest day
ODO - owed day off - if you work into your day off (unlike every other airline) you don't get any payment but you can get that day off back at a "mutually agreed time" - spoiler alert, its never when you want it
LDO: leave day off - wrap around day added to leave
TDO: Trump day off - four days per year that you can request OFF in advance (in pairs only - can't be attached).
RDW: Rest day working - basically a day off payment or overtime payment. 300 pounds for FO's & 525 pounds for captains (basically not worth it after tax) however they are asking for Overtime constantly so if desperate there are opportunities for it.

For the home standby - it lasts typically 11 hours and you have 2 hours to get to the airport (very generous actually).
Airport standby typically lasts 6 hours. There are a couple of couches in the crew room if you want to listen to cabin crew gossip for 6 hours on your 5am airport standby, otherwise there's the terminal where you can hang out with the paxs. No rest room, quiet room or anything of the sort.

It really is a proper low cost carrier painted in BA's colour scheme except its even worse pay and lifestyle conditions than low cost carriers :ugh:

Positives:
- crew are lovely and you do have nice days-out
- home every night (no night-stops)
- 95% of the time it's 2 sector days
- If you can wait a few years there's always mainline LHR opportunities down the road

Hope this helps

[Chauderon]

Wearing the same uniform to fly the same aircraft from the same city as mainline - and being treated and paid like this.

How did BALPA let IAG get away with this?

[hunterboy]

How do you think they let them get away with it? Ba didn’t have a short haul base at LGW when Euroflyer was formed. If nobody had accepted the T&C’s , I assume BA would have offered more.

[Chauderon]

How do you think they let them get away with it? Ba didn’t have a short haul base at LGW when Euroflyer was formed. If nobody had accepted the T&C’s , I assume BA would have offered more.

Exactly, lack of backbone supporting the race to the bottom by the flag carrier

[EGMC]

Is anybody able to answer a few questions via DM
much appreciated for any help.
Cheers

[Prob30Tempo TSRA]

Exactly, lack of backbone supporting the race to the bottom by the flag carrier

I think we’ve been here before . That backbone would see some people at the job centre whilst others take the offer anyway .

BA keeps experimenting with low cost . Didn’t it have a great outfit with “ Go “? Is EF some management trainee scheme ? , they try low cost once a decade and then fold it or sell it

[320LGW]

Hi EGMC - did you manage to get any information relating to the DEC sim? Cheers!

QUOTE=EGMC;11572593]Is anybody able to answer a few questions via DM
much appreciated for any help.
Cheers[/QUOTE]

[JackyP]

Hi recently passed the selection. Does anyone know the holdpool waiting times at the moment?

[320LGW]

Hi recently passed the selection. Does anyone know the holdpool waiting times at the moment?
Hi JackyP - was that for a Captain or FO position? How long did you have to wait between assessment and result? Thanks.

[Avidpilot2023]

Hello all!
I see that some have stated the EF assessment is the same as mainline BA, but I’m unfamiliar with what that entails!

please could someone shed some light on the process? Via pm if that works, I’ve been invited for the online video questions so would love to prepare accordingly.
cheers!

[BentleyTheDog]

Has anyone had a start date recently? If so how long were you swimming for? Thanks